Swifty and Hotted Discuss Nostalrius, Legacy Servers, & Vanilla WoW
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- Swifty and Hotted talk about the Vanilla WoW private server, Nostalrius, that was recently shut down. They also discuss their thoughts on the current state of the game, legacy servers, Legion, and more!
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Swifty, if you start streaming vanilla and re-live your glory days I will re-sub.
Yup!!!
+dANNEYFTW all kinds of re-subs...all kinds
+RetroCheetoBros He literally can't. It's against Blizzard ToS so it's against Twitch ToS.
+Jacob Price getting all kinds of horde busting action
+- Tedd hey buddy, how about you go sit on a pine cone
I thought you were all pro-Blizzard and would have dismissed the idea of legacy servers, but this video proved me completely wrong. I respect you a lot man!
+Another Amorphis Fan yeah when even "modern day" swifty isin't even as kiss-ass-blizzard as Baj is lmfao.
+ODIW ikr
+Another Amorphis Fan If he didn't the legacy nazi's would have downvoted all his videos for daring to disagree.
+Another Amorphis Fan What?! Who gave you that impression, I think Swifty is literally the face of legacy servers, he suggested it YEARS before soda and kungen started their little pleb campaign. It's pretty pathetic to me that the community only NOW is willing to speak up. Years ago we started petitions to do this, we made so many tries to initiate this movement and people all just dismissed it, now that Soda's little cancer squad found their balls, all of a sudden it's "Thanks to Sodapoppin!".....
+AltF4 Gaming yeah u r so funking right on this one
Man, I missed these old kind of videos :)
+Cresser finally it came back after a year
+SavageLight Yap
+Cresser
Forreal where the heck is Nexius lol
itt egy Cresser,szeva! :DD
+Jumpah :D hello
Ive been playing on a vanilla server for a little while after being disinterested in retail for some time. I think one of the biggest reasons that vanilla is so enticing is that you cant simply faceroll everything by yourself. Many quests and enemies require you to reach out to other players. The mmo part of mmorpg is very relevant in vanilla. Mobs in the world are often stronger than you are, grouping up with others is encouraged and required even at very low levels. Dungeons are difficult and strategy and performance actually matters. Even clearing deadmines or Rfc feels like an accomplishment because it took a real effort to do it. Relationships between players is important and making friends and helping each other out is necessary. Its not a case of nostalgia for me , its that the game feels alive and your interactions with others and the way you conduct yourself really matters.
+MurderScenePhoto great fucking post
+MurderScenePhoto What server do you play on ? I'd love to join ? Kronos ?
+Bamox yea kronos 1, havent been on in a couple weeks as they are migrating to new protected server hosts after relentless ddos'ing. Should be back up within a day or two possibly sooner. If you get on add me to friends "Cromfaeyr" dwarf warrior, Ill sort you out with some bags and stuff
Wow.. such a nice guy ..I only asked for your server and you are offering help .. World needs more men like you .
+Bamox The difference between a vanilla player and a WoD player :P
I genuinely feel sorry for anybody who didn't play WoW in its prime. You might have laughed at us back in the day and called us nerds, but now we laugh at you because you missed out on basically the greatest time in gaming history so far. I have had some of my best moments playing that game when it used to be good.
I didn't even laugh at anyone, my parents just wouldn't pay 15 a month for me...
PaDesai98 FeelsBadMan
***** I got to play a bit in cata, and most of mop which were both miles ahead of what we have now.
I met quite a few friends in the early days of WoW... Now it's just so anti community that it doesn't feel social at all =/
No it wasn't
I'm glad you like the idea of legacy servers
The whole story at around 7:20 I experienced that on Nostalrius. I was in STV and was killing some tigers, then a rogue came out of nowhere and I was saved by a fellow adventurer.
Thumbs up for vanilla wow !!!
When legendary items were actually legendary.
+Threeninesix when rare items were actually rare.
That feel when Blizzard has so low standards that they try to lure people back into their game by giving everyone the most iconic and legendary weapons of the Warcraft universe FeelsBadMan
hotted and swifty are secretly playing on vanilla servers and having a blast :3
hahaha I bet
+Derian Tungka .......like Kronos-WoW ...even if it's having server problems lately and "they're working on it"
+TehObLiVioUs if you want it to stay alive stop saying its name
When people like Swifty which are very cautious streamers when it comes to these touchy subjects comes out and expresses their excitement for Legacy servers then there's nothing else needed to be done other than Blizzard finally start working towards a solution. I'm happy Swifty jumped on board after a while.
I'm getting the 2011-2012 IRL nostalgia back!
Keep it up Swifty, and good job as always :D
Here's the video we've been waiting for
+Kodi Lawson god damn right
Hotted, you are spot on when you said "we shot ourselves in the foot"
Hahahhaah literally everyone is passing Swifty
I heard a honk lmao
+Mark Shull Yeh better drive legal then drive fast and get a damn fine at 437,85 USD like i did ...
he isnt so swift is he now
LOOKING GOOD MAN
+Chilly G 👍
I miss being able to be hafl fury half arms stats, and when I first level my warrior I miss the warrior quest and getting my 1st blue warrior weapon,
John Candy looks so young here
ha-ha
+Noctem i didnt know john candy was a blues brother. lol
haHAA
the music you put at the end, man. The feels of leveling in ashenvale forest as a noob. Damn you blizz give us back vanilla WOW!!!!!
damn swifty I've waited so long for this video. Glad to see that regular irl uploads are back too. Long time subscriber from 2008 here that never intends to leave. :)
+RVZER Awesome! Thanks for sticking around
+swiftyirl No Problem bro. We even met at gamescom 2012. I was in one of your fan meeting vids. Was a very special moment for me. :) Anyway just continue doing what you're doing I'll always watch no matter what.
Good to see regular videos are back :)
If you drive slow - drive in the right lane !
Its kind of frustrating how all these people who placed their concerns individually about EVERYTHING that all the major streamers, top players, etc are all spouting about now, were shunned, driven away, told to shut up on the forums. Flying mounts, LFR, level boosts, etc. were all the reasons people quit. Blizz created a divide of old players and new players, changing the game so much that they drew in a new generation of players who were used to the freebies and unchallenged world.
Around 7 Minute mark, Swifty even talks about this.
For years I have been saying flying mounts ruined this game, it was the initial downfall of WoW, it was a quick fix to keep people drawn in, but if they had focused their resources elsewhere instead of trying to please short sighted people the game would still have long lasting players. Blizz needs to let people who have inactive accounts post on the forums, and you'll see how the tables will turn from shaming, downvoting, etc everything about why people quit to praise.
+Patrick Strong Preach! Wish I could throw out my own voice on the forums, but that's not going to be happening. D:
Honestly I don't feel like flying mounts really ruined the game all that much. Were they necessary? Probably not. But BC generally provided enough ground based content that people would stay off their mounts long enough to interact, ESPECIALLY with Quel Danas and many of the isle dailies that forced you to go around the map.
Also keep in mind that mounts were still difficult to get. The initial ones you got were only 60% speed, so many people would still use their epic ground mounts to get place to place since they were just faster, with the obvious exception being when they needed to go over a mountain.
In my opinion WoW started to fall off when they started designing the game world around said flying mounts, instead of the ground based ones.
***** You are right. It was after TBC. But people expressed their concerns of the dangers involving flying mounts right from the get go. Especially if you came from a PVP Sever. Blizz wanted to please the masses, adding arena, new battlegrounds, and noticed how popular world PVP was. Well, when it did get going. They added some really cool world PVP objectives, but then also boasted these flying mounts, which compromised world PVP so much so, it literally killed it.
And, well you know the rest I am guessing, Wrath came out and was catered around flying around the world and exploring the world with flying mounts, they were to far in deep with their flying mounts, they just kept going.
Swifty see how people loves such content ! keep it up we want u back :C
Im 18 years old now. When I was about 7 years old I played Burning Crusade for the first time. Even though I was young and didn't know much what to do. I still had am amazing time playing.. Its nostalgic to think about it but it was one of the very few games i've played where I felt the adventure in the flesh.
+GraphicalArtist ye ye nice try :D 11 years ago wow was on vanilla stage.
No shit fuck face.
lol kid stop trying to act tough over a keyboard.
Blacksnakey Why are you so mad? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
runescape got rid of pvp in 2007 and the rest of their good "vanilla" features soon after and they went from 250k to to 25k users on at all times. Then a few years later they realized the error in their ways and re released an older server for the veterans and now it's just as popular as the main game if not more. blizzard should no blizzard needs to take one from.jagex book on this one and release a vanilla server for the vets
I would return in an instant to WoW if they made a legacy WOTLK server
+Lord Balan - Warmane.
+Lord Balan i dident play vanilla i just play wotlk cata and wod.
wotlk was amazing and i went full sad when i hear of cata coz i want to play more watlk, i just duel and duel all the time in elwyns forest and was the best. In cata all of that was dead and when i play wod that was just horrible, the social part of the game fall apart, just play 1 month.
+Misha Why was duelling dead in Cata? I remember I stood in Elwynn forest duelling my friends and others
Lurifix Jownass but a lot less than in wotlk
wrath should come back seeing how during vanilla almost no one did raids. the top elite players few seen naxx
Wow Swifty still makes videos, haven't seen a swifty vid in like 3-4 years.
omg im so impressed by you guys! talking with no filter and saying whats TRUE. Thanks :)
I keep missing his stream and so I love getting to watch these vidoes
Omg this video brings back som many memories, Cheers Swifty and Hotted!
Awesome vlog Swifty, so much fun watching this. Thank you for putting out that content for us man!
+Jack O'Neill Thank you for watching!
I love everything they're discussing in here. Its the same stuff everyone saying they miss and seeing someone with a big influence in the wow community sit there and talk about all the things that are wrong with retail wow and why vanilla was simply more fun its really great. Sometimes you don't need to go into huge detail into what fundamentally wrong with the game to understand what needs to be changed. Sometimes two veteran players can just reminisce about the good old days and its all clear
Rank 14 - was God Mode. but to obtain that god mode took a while. People would respect you and bow. Epic gear was something.
+sethlan Nostalrius was full of Rank 13 warriors with bwl weapons and 4 5 healers behind them, bgs were unplayable, overgeared no lifers camping them for 1 year+.... premades were a real trouble to fun on that server sigh... i did rank 11 afking a lot couse of them... going more then rank 11 alone was impossible couse of premades and how the honor system works in vanilla.... and there were nothing to bow, they just was winning bgs in 5 minutes becouse of gear and healing.
+z i z z u Preach
It is true nothing to preach
I remember Swifty's first warrior video and the amazement it gave me to see his gear and strats. So much that i went with his Crul'shorukh + dagger build and it worked making me top 3 dps in the raid back then....
I just realized, Swifty's dislikers are getting lazy or they have noticed that he does good content and they are hating him for no reason.
+Lauri Selki BlueSigh why waste hate on a mid level (at best) youtuber? Thats the most logical reason.
private servers are unfortunately run really bad, during nostalrius release the developers had "forgotten to implement" ragnaros when we cleared to it expecting to get server first that night... luckily we got it 2 days later when they finally implemented Rag and majordomo, only the next surprise was they had "forgotten to implement" his entire loot table :D proof = grizzly vs ragnaros
The disconnect between the devs and marketing weasels at Blizzard think and what the world-wide WoW gaming community actually wants has resulted in legacy private servers. The decision Blizz corporate made to shut down a very popular private server like Nos has resulted in a galvanizing of the gaming community against what is being portrayed in social media and perceived by the players not as a copywrite protection issue but as mean-spirited and cold-hearted monitized greed on the part of Blizzard/Activision. Blizzard's unfortunately crass and ill-judged response to a player's question about legacy servers has gone viral, definitely fuelling the controversy and increasing the victimization of the Nos players. The disconnect becomes more obvious when Blizz attempts damage control by mentioning pristine servers, something totally different that nobody has indicated any interest in seeing online.What's really significant is Blizz no longer posting any sub numbers. Says it all.
I've never really been to much into swifty but hes a pretty cool dude
+RackyanHD yeah i dont know why people started making fun of him back in mop. He isnt rank 1 but he is a really cool guy
+Phoov No kidding :)
+RackyanHD check out all of his channels
+RackyanHD wasn't he one of the first to create the one shot macro?
MegaDragonslayer1997 he was the og creator of it.
Vanilla - "Ohh you got the thunderfury OMG where did you get that?!?!"
Legion: "Ohh Your got the Ashbringer OMG so does every single other person who plays this class and I !"
+brian h Βecause everyone has to be a special little snowflake in today's WoW. But because everyone turned into that no one really is, ironic right? haha
agree with ya swifty
Started playing Wow at the end of vanilla. It took me about 3 months to get my Rogue to mx level and man tbh i hated the vague leveling quest system..So often i was lost. But i agree that i made a lot of friends during the journey.. Playing as a nightelf it took a lot of time to reach the capital City and indeed all the mobs where crazy hard to fight.. groups of mobs where mostly insta dead:-) But the game was so full of wonders.. I remember the first time i went into the City and was so thrilled when i found out there was something called the AH...i was able to sell my stuff and it felt so great!.. It was the start of an awesome experience that got me hooked for years, especially when i got invited one day in a raiding guild with lot of friendly ppl.. loved the game back then and i agree that the game at the moment feels very blend and abandon..
+Patsboem Exactly, i'd miss that so much!
The things you're telling those things are missing nowadays :(
Agree man, it wasn't perfect, but the game was very special back then..
BTW it's the talent trees I missed the most
Played since vanilla, always been hyped for a new expansions but even legion cant even lure me back... *LEGACY* can. not pristine.
+Wa͟l̀ho͞r You are so stuck in the past, aren't you?
Bracken
Not really, I moved on. Obviously Blizzard target audience has changed, but most old players have gone sick of it. Were really just playing others games for now or private servers.
***** We really won't miss you older players. Especially if you try to shove your opinions of the older stuff vs the new down the newer players throats. You make the game toxic. Not all, but quite alot.
Yeah, we make the new game toxic. That's why WoW's subs has fallen so much that they wont even show them public anymore. Face it fanboy. A good bunch of players are tired of the game and would wish for an option to play the old one. And if blizzard won't give us the options we just move on to other games or private servers :)
+Bracken you don't know wht you are talking about since you didn't play the older version so why are you judging. you're happy with the piece of crap you got... got play with the little bit of worthless shit you bought and be happy... the other ones are used to get quality water and still pay yhe same price only they get shit now in returnµ; that is not how it works.
Good crisp discussion!
12:50 Did someone say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?
I remember being a Enhancement Blacksmith Hammersmith Shaman with ▪2 x Dragon Hammer [200haste] chance on hit Hammers and Grulls Trinket on BC with Mongoose & Crusader and having to wait on Mom in BT till 79% because I took agroo. Took me 18 straight hours to forge them and I still remember and I'm proud of what I did, everybody is just a number today
this is the greatest content you have provided for me since incredible warrior tricks 2 :D glad to have swifty and hotted onboard!
IWT 2 made me roll warrior, (pat and maydie also)
the only problem with legacy servers is that how long will or could they last before people got bored with content?
How long will legion last before people get bored of content?
forever
+Jon Petersburg They could consider (infact, i think this is the best option) doing "progression" legacy servers that release patches at more or less the same rate they were originally released, so you raid naxx and OS first, raid ulduar next, raid ToC, then raid ICC (WotLK example, not vanilla). Personally I think that would be amazing.
+Jordan Crawford Best response ever.
legion 2 months, vanilla 5 years
So much Nostalrius talk, was I the only one who enjoyed the Lion's Pride Inn music? :3
I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU PUT IN THE INN MUSIC HAHA LOVIN IT!
Some people want things given to them... some people want to earn it.... hard to cater to both in the same game without having servers with different rules..
I'm a little older now than in my day of playing WoW. I had lots of time and earning gear through hard work felt amazing. Unfortunately I don't have the time anymore like I used to. For me raid finder is perfect so that I can hop on, experience the content, and get off. How I wish I still had the time I used to because those days were amazing.
Right on dude
That subtle Inn music, its like i was sat around in goldshire listening to a conversation between two Grand Marshalls
What were they talking about?
So many memories man. I myself was a BC player and loved all the random adventures and farming I had to do to just get my brutal gear for pvp. Man those were the days
I remember when I used to watch all of the IRL videos back in the way with the old crew. The eating place in the beginning brought back those memories.
I can not describe with words how fun Nostalrius was, I started playing there like a week after release, because it was chaotic when it first released..
I have NEVER had that much fun in any game, and the amount of gameplay you get, you have to crawl your way up to 60, and I am not a leveling guy, but leveling, mixed with World PvP is just amazing!
Then when you hit 60, you farm your pre-raid BiS so you can start raiding Molten Core and move up to ZG, BWL, Naxx etc.
And ofcourse, when you're not raiding, you play BG's to climb ranks, farm gold out in the world, so you could afford enchants, consumables for raids (consumables for raids was expensive as hell, if you wasn't a herbalist / alchemist).
And the world PvP, oh wow, don't get me started there, so damn fun.
I miss it so much, all the memories.
But the thing I miss THE MOST is the community, every server had its own little community, I played on Nostalrius for over a year and I somehow knew "everyone". I ran past people in the world and I remembered them from different, one guy that ganked me for hours, another one that always stole my mining nodes etc.
Blizzard should make WoW F2P until 60. They could then just bring back level 60 raiding, and tailor the level 60 experience to feel like vanilla WoW. That would encourage more signups, and make a lot of people happy. We already have timewalking, so level 100s could technically play with level 60s.
This type of video is what make you special swifty, not stupid stream highlights.
You should totally make more of these kinds of vlogs especially with Hotted.
I had a T1 druid and felt boss. T3 people literrly destroyed AV solo. I remember seeing a 8/9 T3 shaman standing in front of the pack just keeping at least 15 people alive by himself :'). glorious times
I can never figure out what that restuarant is called? t-one-a-flats? thats how i hear it
+Matstar95558 aa Tijuana Flats
+Matstar95558 aa tee-a-one-a flats would be the phonetic name
+Matstar95558 aa yep tee-one-a-flats right way to pronounce it Kappa
Big respect for getting involved and sharing your thoughts.
Now with Swifty supporting legacy servers i think it is possible :D
Locks could stealth detect, you quested for mounts, gold was hard to gain, demons you had to pay for the spells. That was fun the difficulty and comradery of companions to help achieving things
Perfect music.
awesome video swifty and hotted :)
+valtteri92 Glad you enjoyed it
Was a lot of fun Swifty, I think you of all people would like vanilla wow again
hotted hit a huge point there. "we like working for gear" that is exactly what i miss in this game. i HATE the fact that i am fully geared over the weekend. it just makes it boring. i liked that excitement and dedication i had to put in order to get an advantage over others. good days, real gearing system.
I started playing on WOTLK (around the ulduar patch). Those times were awesome, the people that i met doing dailies and the weekly quests for Frost badges are people that i still talk to (we kept in contact for playing different games).
You needed to be social and find a group of people with " /y LF healer to run dungeons" or "LF BS or JW to make me X thing" in Dalaran, i loved that.
I remember when i first got to lvl 80, people in my guild was willing to help even if they already had raid gear and had to walk to the dungeon's entrance. We were a community that helped each other in our journey.
What i do understand is that maybe blizzard is doing the game "easier" because the hardcore gamers from then now have jobs, or a family and different responsibilities and we can't spend that much time in the game anymore, but I would rather play just a couple hours and work for something, that just sit alone in an "MMO" waiting for the queue to pop.
Those are a few things that i miss ....
There was nothing like creating your first character on Vanilla. To all the OGs that were around for the start of it all - I salute you.
As a veteran I thank you. ; _ ;
guys, flying mounts are an easy fix. They did it right in BC. Once you did all the quests and got to max level, you got flying because of the mini zones like skettis and the shelf, where you needed it. Instead of the timeless isle, or tanaan, a few little mini zones you cant get to scattered throughout, all with max level mobs and quests would give you a way to use mounts without ruining leveling.
Wall Street Journal had a great article about masocore games like "Dark Souls". I would say vanilla was a masocore game because it was brutal and it killed you over and over again. But when it rewarded you for your patience and hard work, that was the absolute best! :)
If you want to read the article google "wsj masocore".
i miss Elites npc being scary and makeing you scard to get close and now all mpc are a joke heirlooms or not they are a joke
You know what Swifty. Thank you, On behalf of all of us Veteran WoW players. What you did and what you have said took a lot of courage, and it needed to be said. Its players like you who have been such a staple in the community, who have worked closely with blizzard in the past, to come out and voice your opinion about the game. You have put your self at great risk as a game streamer from ever working closely with blizzard again, so the truth can be spoken and opinions can be heard, you give us a voice. It is someone like you John that inspires many of us to keep on playing the game we all know and love. You will forever have our support.
Lok'Tar Ogar Friend.
I love the part about how rare gear was in Vanilla, and I agree with the both of you. As a priest, I would stand on the bridge of Ironforge leading to the Auction house to showcase my Benediction staff and full Transcendence Tier 2 set. I worked hard to be able to differentiate myself from other priests and it was so rewarding. I was proud of the effort and the work I put into getting everything.
Now, its like.. meh.
Building up to the lower tier PvP gear and actually finally getting it. One of the best achivements for me in Vanilla wow.
I remember Back when I had to have friends and guildies help me get my Dreadstead. That was an adventure of it's own. Now it's like 20g and the mount is yours
12:50 the last time I had that feeling is Wrath when I got Shadowmourne on my Ret Pally.
Also, "We like working for our gear." @Hotted it's a nice way to provide a player a sense of agency in their own progression. You're truly working for something, not just being handed a participation trophy of sorts.
I met Hotted in berlin, awesome to see him with you again! I got a picture!
What I miss the most is every server having it's own community. Trying to make a name for yourself on your server, where everyone knows each other. Seeing the same peoples name in trade chat every day, and getting on ventrilo to see who's online before even logging into WoW. The 41 point talent tress, the old honor system. It felt like if you didn't play WoW for a day, you were behind all of your peers. The worst thing ever would be for the friends you met online while leveling, started to out level you. I hope they bring something similar to Vanilla or even BC back. My first lvl 60 took me 14 days playing time and now, I could get level cap in like 2 days play time.
Are you driving 10-20 mph under the speed limit or something? The drivers beside/behind you seem pissed.
Really glad that even Swifty was not afraid to state his honest opinion, and I was surprised that he was tempted to try out a private server, this tells you that WoW really used to be better, it's not just nostalgia.
Swifty driving like an old Chinese lady hehe :D
+Jimmyfresshh HIM :D
+Kyle 8)
+motherbrain relax grandma
motherbrain No... I would either rev match downshift floor it and race you on highway or if i don't feel like it but more about cruising i would just watch you fly by and do nothing at all. Completely indifferent.
Thanks for stream bombing me on Nost when I was leveling my mage! Made my day Swifty!
Elysium Project is NEW Nostalrius WoW.... Nostalrius WoW is Back.
limited time for flying is the answer, that the mounts get tired
for the flying mounts they can fix that without removing them, reduce their speed back to the 1º mount in BC of 60% and maybe 100% for the second upgrade and make the ground mount 120~150% ppl will start using ground mounts because they're faster or/and create a continuous flight time limit, fly for 3 minutes get a CD to wait 3 minutes before flying again.
Swifty , this is how you get back to your old content! keep it up
Man i love these videos where you and talk , so old school swifty
since removing flying mounts would most likely cause a backlash, why not have flying mount timers/fatigue? limited to no more than an hour a day or something along those lines. This way you are forced to use ground mounts to transport and flying mounts become more of a luxury thing that you could do. People would be sore about having timed flying mounts, but it would solve the "flying around all the time" issue.
RIP WoW you were great, and could be great again
Epic entry gear in vanilla xd the only entry epic stuff you could get were like 1% drops from bosses (like Felstriker from Rend) and from PvP rep. The craftables were all blue.
every time i come back to watch Swifty . I feel the need to play wow again :)
Swifty, thank you for not selling out. Much respect.
I was the first rogue on Dentarg to get Perdition's Blade from Rag. Screamed, mom had to come see if I was ok... I saved up DKP for that drop for almost a month. Now I'm 27. I would play it all over again man. Those were the times. It was a shame to see Nostalrius go. Managed to get a 60 paladin on there before it bit the dust. I can confirm it was a great server. Good vid guys.
Man when I first played wow back in mid TBC. I made a night elf druid. A max druid visit the the starter zone. he had epic gear everyone was showing him respect and I my jaw drop to see that type of gear for the first time..... Now it's wal mart epics everyone gets them.
swiftys buddy looks honest and a cool guy
Gahh! What was the Silithus quest chain where you killed mobs for pages, summones more mobs and kept farming up till you got spawn with epic loot? I spent DAYS doing that and pvping. Shout out to Bubbles, Elfie and Jang.
Any one who never played Vanilla, or never got to 60 before TBC dropped, join The Rebirth or Kronos and level to 20 with no XP bonus on. Then tell me how much you like or miss Vanilla.