lol, I always found this hilarious, and I feel he had like, the worst ever quest once because of one. I try them occasionally, with a focus ring either crit or damage trinkets, but the class seems to lack any real utility.
@DawnWatch You can't really tank in this game, i.e. you have no way of telling enemies to hit the Leper instead of one of your 3 other guys. The only thing you can do is make the Antiquarian guard herself with him. But this still leaves 2 other guys. And there are better classes to use with the Antiquarian's guard, namely the Flagellant and the Highwayman. Also, take the game's warning seriously and switch off Crimson Court for your first playthrough. Feel free to DM me should you need some tips.
Disclaimer: Virtue chance is capped at 95%. Thanks for the video and your insight on your thoughts on the items! And Plaque doctor's set item would be quite nice in CC, *if* subject #40 wouldn't be such a useless specimen(or the note taker so inept).
PS. IMO leper is trash due to his skillset, but his accuracy on his damage skills is actually only 10 lower than the common 105 mark(while things like vestal fall short by five). That means that highly consistent accuracy increase(made more consistent by the first item) is a +5 acc on top of the normal and ~ *max* acc on the other skills. Too bad that the paired items otherwise prevent you to itemize for this advantage... Ah Leper, you Red Hook's left hook.
Yeah, I don't see how people think the Leper's accuracy is a real problem. I mean the two most used damage boosting items in the also happen to fix accuracy. All you have to do is put a sun or moon ring on him and he is good to go. His real down side is his absolutely horrible lack of reach and extremely rigid positioning requirements, but those are understandable draw backs given his god tier damage and hp and amazingly good self sustain and tanking. I mean if you look at the raw power of his abilities it's amazing. I think people tend to underestimate him. You just need to make sure you play him with characters that can help re-position him like the Grave Robber and run proper scouting so you don't get surprised . So long as you have fast characters that can put him back where he belongs before he moves then it's not a big deal. I personally don't play with him much, but he is not nearly as useless as everybody claims.
For the most part i can't but agree with you, but while even in his preferred position, he is only good at doing the thing you *don't* want to do in the first place.
The basic virtue chance is 25%, is *always* at least 1% and is capped at *95%* . It is increased and decreased by trinkets and quirks additively(like any other stat). A hero gains a 5% virtue penalty per the level difference in a higher leveled dungeon, except, when the level difference is 6(0 in DD), where the penalty is 33%(but still the minimum of 1%). Those are the values pulled from the game a while ago. I don't know if Crimson Court changed things up(which i doubt), but if not, you're operating on hearsay.
Btw, here is the timing for all the trinkets: Abomination: 0:48 - Shameful Shroud 1:48 - Osmond Chains 3:20 - Overall set effect Antiquarian: 4:09 - The Master's Essence 4:52 - Two of Three 5:20 - Overall set effect Arbalest: 7:13 - Childhood Treasure 8:23 - Bedtime Story 10:05 - Overall set effect Bounty Hunter: 11:31 - Crime Lord's Molars and Vengeful Kill List 15:58 - Overall set effect Crusader: 16:31 - Glittering Spaulders and Overall set effect will be there a bit later 18:17 - Signed Conscription Flagellant: 19:11 - Chipped Tooth 20:13 - Overall set effect 35 - Shard of Glass Grave Robber: 22:49 - Absinthe 24:36 - Sharpened Letter Opener 25:10 - Overall set effect Hellion: 26:32 - Lioness Warpaint 28:15 - Mark of the Outcast 29:06 - Overall set effect Highwayman: 29:50 - Blooded Neckerchief 31:12 - Shameful Locket 31:24 - Overall set orgasm Houndmaster: 32:30 - Evidence of Corruption 33:49 - Battered Lawman's Badge 34:57 - Overall set effect Jester: 36:26 - Tyrant's Tasting Cup 38:08 - Overall set effect 38:29 - Tyrant's Fingerbone Leper: 39:39 - Last Will of Testament 41:23 - Overall set effect 41:46 - Tin Fluke Man-at-Arms: 43:41 - Old Unit Standard 45:15 - Toy Soldier 45:48 - Overall set orgasm Occultist: 46:38 - Blood Pact 48:25 - Vial of Sand 49:07 - Overall set effect Plague Doctor: 49:46 - Subject #40 Notes 49:58 - Overall set orgasm 50:06 - Dissection Kit Vestal: 52:06 - Atonement Beads 52:40 - Satacious Diary 52:53 - Overall set BabyRage
I think the video will just be a list of crap items that are never worth using, then going more in depth with the few good items in the game, wouldn't take much more than 2 hours (for two videos) I think
Except that's not even his main problem. His main problem is that he can only do one thing. Namely hitting the front ranks. This is not a particularly valued skill in most scenarios and it's his ONLY SOMEWHAT GOOD FEATURE. This problem is the secondary issue that even if you want that, the leper doesn't do it well because he's made of inaccuracy. Oh and if you use the skill to fix it you flub an entire turn throwing away that big damage you liked so much. Literally over half the classes in the motherfucking game can do his purported job better than him while being built to also do better more important things.
He gets crit x2 by Subterranean Skewer who goes after your healer, and because leper always goes last in every round(because he's trash) he bleeds out and dies with your sun Ring and Focus Ring never having contributed anything. Meanwhile Hellion did 33 damage to it and the Vestal finished it off before it acted because she went 2nd in the round and does backrank damage. I want to like Leper because of his big fat damage numbers. But he's the slowest hero in the game, he misses ALL THE FUCKING TIME, and his utility is trash. He can't stun, he can't stress heal, he can't heal, he does position 1 and 2 damage and clears corpses. What good is he? Giving your opponents lots of actions, that's what he's good at.
It's not so much that the leper does things badly more often. It's that he almost never is in a position to do anything really good. You almost never say to yourself "Thank goodness I just crit the shit out of that first position guy."
Bloodied Neckerchief, Shameful Locket "A reflex - I didn't mean to..." Holy fuck, it's impressive how this game can tell a story with one item desccription
"I dont understand why this exists at all" seems to be a very common theme with DD items. I have no idea why they are so silly, and even good items aren't too exciting to play with. When a character only has two slots items better be very awesome but for some reason DD devs decided to go meh route.
wait a second, filthy, -2 speed on a crusader isn't even a big deal, he literally can't get any slower, the only way he can be faster than the enemies is if you stack up some first round bonus speed and get speed perks....his base speed is 1, it doesn't improve very much, and nothing in the game goes after the crusader EVER -10 speed is the same as 0 speed XD Actually I've thought about getting a crusader intentionally blood cursed so he has some decent base speed, as all stages of blood curse (haven't let a hero get to wasting yet) offer +2 speed bonus.
-2 speed will definitely be a factor although I agree it's less so for crusader. The random dice roll addition of up to 8 means the -2 can theoretically hurt the crusader's initiative.
Something I found interesting on the Battered Lawmen's badge when compared to the scouting whistle and opportunity cost. From the wiki on scouting whistle +30% Scouting Chance if Torch below 51 +20% Trap Disarm In Radiant Light the Scouting bonus is 15%, and below 51 has no bonus. Thus the scouting bonus is +15% in below 51 light.
I feel like with many of these, they are designed as if you had constant access to their entire skill kit. They give all around buffs to all of the facets of the class, and having them be all around stronger at everything, and more versatile as a result, is pretty neat. But since you DON'T have access to all their skills at all times, they just tend to be terrible.
Well you know you can change your skills mid dungeon, so you could use one set of skills for the trash and switch some around for the boss and the items will benefit both loadouts. Although I do agree on some of the sets being bad, but I do like the antiquarian, arbalest, crusader, houndmaster, leper, and man-at-arms sets. And I use the chipped tooth and salacious diary as individual items a lot.
I love the letter opener on a lunge Grave Robber where the extra damage is often that point or two you need to one hit those rank 3 and 4 enemies and the dodge bonus is very nice on her. I run a position 4 Grave Robber with this trinket and her amazing Raider's Talisman with a Man at Arms as my stunner in position two and it's awesome. The trinket combo and her natural speed allows her to go before the Man at Arms without error. This means she opens with a lunge into position two, pushes the Man at Arms into position 3, where he then Ramparts for the stun and moves forward into position two, pushing the Grave robber back to position 3, where she can then lunge immediately again on her second turn. I usually run this pair with an Occultist as my healer with some + speed and he generally opens with Eldritch Artillery and then on round two he either heals or shanks a survivor in the front rows because the last two rows are already dead. This set up absolutely decimates the back rows usually allowing only one enemy of your choice to get in a single attack from back there.
Oof, you misread the Bedtime Story's Move Skill Chance (not Move Resist). Not sure how much you would reassess the trinket, but it improves the chance moving with the Bolas. Hopefully, you didn't misread the debuff skill chance too. Yep, you can partially cheese the undead crew by dragging them to the front. The crew can still do their shenanigans but the anchorman can't do anything Grave Robber's Shadow Fade (i.e pocket sand) is a melee skill but it only benefits from the accuracy. A quick comparison between Dissection Kit and Bloody Herb has the herb coming out on top (It gives accuracy to stab, 5% less bleed chance, 5% less damage for Melee and 25% less damage for ranged).
guess he hasn't beaten crimson court at the time the video aired, but you can farm them all quite easily from the garden guardian (a boss encounter you can run as many times as you like) also, you can use dazzling light from rank two, and he keeps mixing up skill chance and resist all the time
The Hellion items synergize with one another pretty well. The Death Blow resist helps if you are at low health (benefiting from the damage bonuses) and then get taken to death's door, and the minus healing can take you off of death's door and you can still get healed but not enough to make you lose the damage bonuses. Also, if you're Crusader is already going last because he is slow as fuck, what is the problem with lowering his speed? Also, the healing item is good for trash mobs while the spaulders are good for bosses, so you can benefit from them the entire dungeon. Having a slow healer isn't bad because if you itemize to have fast damage classes going before the enemy, and they then take damage putting them on death's door with a DoT, the slow healer can still heal them before they act next round.
Stunning blow means he can pull his weight as a stunner but is hampered down by low base speed. Thus he wants something to prop that up so he won't go pretty much last in line and risk getting stunned himself.
The way I run leper is the heal, hew, the protection mark, and intimidate. The damage debuff is pretty good against anything that does damage, as long as you have one stack of the protection you're fine, Hew for utility and the heal to stay alive. And if you have nothing better to do double stack the protection. Maybe have him along side an antiquitarian too, she only has to cast protect me once on him since he has his own protection, and it gives her something better to do, like helping heal with her new double heal, or spamming blight.
His hate for the grave robbers blight skill made me give it a go to see how useful it is despite initially dismissing it. Turns out it's pretty handy for removing GR's weakspot of high protection enemies, and the blight resist debuff/high acc makes it a good pairing with the plague doctor. Dunno about the CC trinket now, but he's actually managed to swing my opinion of the skill in the exact opposite direction of his own.
Thatdude, good for you. Poison darts for the GR is a useful skill, that myself, and others use, and have been using for along time. The fact that Filthy doesn't see its value, and keeps insisting that "no one" uses the GRs blight skill is disappointing to me, tho I do agree that using a trinket to enhance it, from my experience, is unnecessary as it seems to land, and tick quite often without. Relating to the CC trinkets, the Absinthe, or whatever, I won't be using it ever because that -20% hp on a GR is just too much. However, the Sharpened LO seems good, will use that one at some point. Overall, thought it was a very informative video, and agreed with quite a bit of it.
Mark of the Outcast (The Hellion +bleed% +deathblow% -healing received % trinket) gives +3 Speed as well. I've been using it a lot because of that. The wiki has it wrong on that one. Does this change your view of it at all?
What is the recommended loadout for a Leper? Assuming full light run, I have it narrowed down to Ancestor Candle, Ancestor Pen, Focus Ring, Sun Ring, and/or Surgical Gloves. I just don't know what the optimal combination of these trinkets. What is the consensus?
I'm watching a lot of your vids kinda late as I wait for new episodes of the 'Shieldbreaker' run you have going (one the new class, btw); Agree quite a bit with many of your trinket reviews, though I will say that the Antiquarian's set is actually really good, as it seems to combine the best bonuses from ALL of her other trinkets. Also note that the debuff skill chance also applies to her Blight's secondary chance to lower blight resistance.
I feel like maybe some of the trinkets were geared more for lore enjoyment in a way-the Graverobber’s disease and blight resist etc being related to her profession-but it seems an odd choice to add in items with such high risk/rarity that are more novelty than dazzle. Unless they’re trying to make it not hurt so much to miss out on them? Who knows. I also don’t know if this was a thing in the patch where this video was made, but her thrown dagger hits harder on blighted targets, so maybe they’re determined to push that play style. I suspect FR would say that’s using two actions for what could be done more efficiently, and that’s hard to argue esp as a newbie who feels a fairly visceral rush of terror about leaving Those Damn Stress Casters up.
As much as I despise Lepers for the reasons described many times already, there was one occasion wich I remember from My first finished campain, where bringing Leper was the best decision I could ever think of, and that was DD 3, because my composition of Vestal, Houndmaster, Leper and Helion was revolving around having 3 "oh shit" buttons to kill off the white cell, while Leper (and other one of the three) would pour damage into the mammont cyst. That got me the easiest DD3 I could ever imagine, with 0 teleports around, because I just got straight shot to the finish and booked out.
Hey Filthy, thanks for these videos. They have been tremendously helpful for my gameplay so far. Will you make a dark run guide too? That would be wonderful.
You have spend 3 actions to set that up, one is marking which deals no damage; another is bleeding which is fair but has the chance to not work, another is stunning which is fair but has a chance to not work And the Hunter must be faster to exploit. All of that for a 45% bonus, credit where credit is due the bonus against marked target may ramp it up to 90% bonus damage. You did all this gamble with the status effects chances, spent 3 normal attacks for something else and all you recieve is almost 1 extra. You are better off using the 3 normal attacks.
That doesn't make it bad. That's like saying stunning is worthless because you could just hit an enemy. Bounty Hunter's come hither got buffed so it marks the target in addition to pulling, so it's not as if you're wasting turns marking with BH as opposed to something more sensible like an occultist, either. 15% damage on marked makes Collect Bounty always deal more than double damage when marking first, while the bleed is also great because houndmaster is a staple of mark teams. Damage vs stunning I'll give you, people don't really run finish him for the damage versus stunning; they run it to hit pos 3.
Unless you have a mod class that can successfully applies all 3 effects at the same time, then it would hurt them so much that you even feel pain for them Otherwise, it's quite hard to applies all 3 effects for the Bounty Hunter to execute his attack
Hey Filthy, I realised that the 2nd hellion trinket is not correct on the wiki and in the video. It also gives 3 speed which is pretty amazing on a hellion, no?
De buff skill on antiquarian is actually pretty good. Stalling a fight against a double-wide that can’t hit anything is good. Not a low light thing, since dodge isn’t useful there, but for those of us that like our torches it’s not shabby.
Is the Arbalest heal, THAT much worse than the single target Vestal heal? I don't tend to use them as a solo healer because they can't heal rank 4 but the raw number isn't as small as you made it sound, Plague Doctor or Antiquarian have small heals.
Is there any chance you'd revisit these post-sun ring nerf? A common theme over the duration of this video seems to be "this is actually not bad, but a sun ring's better;" but then sun rings got nerfed and are now about as strong as a rare trinket should be. And I might be wrong, but I also think some of the sets themselves have been rebalanced slightly or even reworked since this was uploaded.
I'd say the Arbilest's bedtime story is actually very good. with both of those trinkets, and combined with the bounty hunter, she was the main reason I beat the final boss the first time. she was consistently hitting for 50+ damage and stress healing herself. with the bounty hunter in as well, the mark is taken advantage of, and the added protection from the set bonus is great because enemies seem to target the arbililest too often and she can't heal herself, so more tankiness is very important for her. plus the move chance makes bola more effective, especially to move the bigger enemies in rank 1 that she can't hit otherwise
anybody know if it's worth keeping blood cursed heroes? seems to me that they force you to take up an inventory slot that could be filled with something useful, for a minor POSSIBLE damage buff with a permanant debuff to resistances/increased stress
The point of the plague doctor set is that it allows the plague doctor to be ran in the crimson court area, which is something you couldn't do otherwise because blight is useless there. For the Subject #40 notes: You are correct in that the plague doctor does have highish disease resist and can cure them, however she cannot cure the crimson curse. Despite it's name the crimson curse is in fact a disease which is affected by disease resist, and getting this item puts the chance of getting the disease down to 8% per hit, as opposed to the typical 30%. It also provides hp which is relevant for her other paired item, the dissection kit. The dissection kit is obviously used to emphasize the plague doctors incision attack. It's her only means of bleed and thus she's likely to spend her time closer to the front if that's the damage source she's being used for (as she would be if you wanted to use her in the crimson court). This makes the health on the subject #40 notes more useful since leaning towards the front leads to more damage. Also the raw damage increase is pretty large for having no negative attached compared to other items that provide similar benefits. The blight and stun bonuses are nice but secondary to it's bleed and anti crimson curse emphasis. Essentially the bonus is just there to make those abilities not-useless in a situation with lots of blight resist.
thatdudeinthecotton well when I'm using a court plague doctor I'll use the kit and the blody herbs. Id never use the notes wich means the setbonus is fucking useless. Plus a melee plauge doctor is just useless. If you coukd hit rank 3 it would be pretty great.
Well, Using the herb isn't that great a choice, cause the thing about picking up the bloody herb is that the dissection kit already puts the plague doctors chance of bleeding any enemy in the courtyard at 100% since their bleed resist is so low, so you're not getting any benefit from stacking it. If you want raw damage there are better items to do that. Also the courtyard has relatively few enemies in position 3 that need to be killed. The manservants and mosquitoes that deal stress damage tend to be all over the place, so hitting rank 3 isn't quite as necessary as it would be typically (though of course it is helpful). Anyways the main reason you'd take PD isn;t her damage but her utility, if she needs to hit rank 3 PD can act as a stunner with her disorientating blast for clearing corpses, or blinding gas for crowd control. Both of those moves that are significantly improved by the CC class trinket synergy. As for the blight synergy being useless, that's not actually all that true. The only enemies with notable blight resistance in the courtyard are the mosquitoes and the bosses. And even then it's a 50/50 for the mosquitoes and a 75% chance for the bosses with this kit. Most enemies only have a 20% chance of not getting blighted, so using plague to get the last tick on a 3rd or 4th rank enemy is actually pretty dang reasonable. The only item that gives better chance for blighting is the blasphemous vial, but then you're trading 15% health and 30% crimson curse/disease resist For: 5% more blight chance, 25% more stun chance (in an area with low stun resist enemies) and +25% extra stress damage taken. For an area you are expected to stay in for long periods of time that is a terrible trade.
Are you sure the bounty hunter's 15% dmg buff doesn't stack? I don't think it would be too hard to get a mark/bleed/stun combo off, and 45% dmg seems pretty decent to me.
Crime lord's molars I'd almost only take for the added damage to stunned monsters because most comps in which I have the bounty hunter, I run with more stunners then I really should. Like the Vestal, avoiding + or - stun items on her and sorta using it when everyone is max hp. The hound master can stun where his anti stun attack can be used anyways and with both of them speed buffed they can do sick combos with the plus damage makes it easier to two shot a target. If you don't kill it on the first round, it's stunned. No big deal. I also like to run with that combo, Plague doctor, with that said, it's pretty much a trash mob farmer of a comp. Most times, you blight, stun and hunter a target they will die most times before they act, IF Rng does not chose to mess you up. As the item good? I feel it's a gimmick that is fun to mess around with in easier none boss modes other wise meh.
Other nice use for the BH items are to melt many bosses, as you can stack the bonuses easily with a mark comp like Arb, HM, Occ and BH. You have all of the triggers with you and without any additional kitting, meaning that you can blast some bosses with 16 + high crit% + 15% + 15% + 15% + 90/60%(depending on boss pos.) + another possible DMG item(the Sunbling etc). Now that's some dangerous level of rape, right there.
As an anti boss items, yush I'd say it's one of the easier items to work into you're set up. The draw backs is some bosses can remove marks fast due to muti turns they get which makes it hard for stuns the same way. So if you're getting good Rng on the right boss it can melt that boss like it's nothing. I also like how this damage it adds stacks with damage items so their %s ad to this item's damage.
Holy shit how didnt i find u before? U know so much about the game and explain it so cool, thanks mate really looking forward to get more dd content from u!
BRaat Marczanu All of his damaging abilities hit the targets you don't want to hit at the start of the fight. Well, okay, if you use occultist to move one of the high priority targets forward you've essentially wasted 2 actions for a chance at a one shot. Comparably with any other good dps, they can usually attack the positions without wasting an occultist action and are more consistent and can have better items. It's not efficient in the slightest, which doesn't work in high level dungeons on the hardest difficulty.
I mean it is not super useful but dont all of the effects of the bounty hunter stack, so you get 45% more damage and 9% more crit on a bled stunned and marked character?
I'm surprised that you didn't talk about how you have to run the occultist items in low light, making the set bonus less useful because base dodge gets lowered.
One of the things filthy frequently says is that dodge isn't that great because you're still likely to get hit unless you're rocking something like 50 dodge. Also dodge heroes have to trade off hp which is more valuable,
The Occultist has one of the highest base dodges in the game which means even in low light he will have enough dodge to get below the 90% max accuracy cap even in torchless runs which means that any bonus dodge he gets will make him harder to hit. The only time dodge becomes useless is when it is low enough that the enemy's accuracy caps at 90% and with the Occultist that won't happen except in very extreme cases with a few Blood Moon difficulty, no torch, final dungeon enemies. So say you have a champion enemy with very high accuracy of like 110% because of low light and a high base accuracy and a character with 10% dodge. In this case the character's dodge is utterly useless because it's not high enough to bring the enemy's accuracy down below the max of 90%. It will also do no good to give this character a +10% dodge trinket because it still only brings the enemy's accuracy chance down to 90% which is the cap. Now if you have somebody like the Occultist with a dodge of 30% this same enemy only has an 80% chance to hit him under the same conditions because his dodge is high enough to overcome the enemy's boosted accuracy and the 90% cap. If you give this Occultist the same +10% dodge trinket instead of being worthless you get full value from it which is to lower the odds of the enemy hitting him by 10% for a total of a 20% chance to dodge or 1 in 5.
Right, and this item forces you to do low light. So the fact that it has +dodge for the set bonus is actually rather bad, you're either not getting use of the set bonus or of the item bonus (unless you can somehow stack more dodge on him to be worth something, but I don't think that is super good with the occultist in low light.)
The only thing I seriously disagree with in this video is the shard of glass. I tend to use it with the bleed charm so really you're getting 55% bleed skill chance for 4 dodge. Granted it does take both slots but it makes almost every bleed land so...
The crime lord's molar's are good in boss fights and against big critters like the giants where his targets will often have at least two of the effects this item triggers on and often all three. A 45% damage boost on a single item is massive when it comes to getting rid of a giant or a boss. I tend to already run my Bounty Hunter with a Hound Master and Occultist which means even in normal every day fights his targets will often already be bleeding, stunned or on some occasions even marked by the Occultist. He is also the slowest of these three characters which means he is often on mop up duty after the Hound Master and Occultist have stunned, marked and or bled that last big +prot mob. This item provides extremely high damage against foes where you will need it most which are the big elite mobs and bosses you are focusing down with multiple characters, but will only sometimes provide respectable damage boosting against mid tier mobs. Against trash tier enemies like spiders or skeleton grunts it will do absolutely nothing since you will be one shotting them anyway. Sadly, the vast majority of fights don't involve the sort of enemies where this trinket will shine so on average it's not amazing. In a regular dungeon, even the Weald, I don't think it's good enough to be worth taking over the usual top tier damage trinkets like a moon ring, but if you are short on proper damage trinkets its not a bad option even in vanilla dungeons. The higher the dungeon level and the higher the difficulty setting, the better this item becomes because it shines against big enemies that require focusing down by multiple heroes but does nothing for one shotting trash mobs. The one place I actually do use this as best in slot is when I am hunting veteran and champion bosses that can be stunned and bled since it's going to be doing +30% to +45% damage every round. I know that is a very narrow niche, but unlike most of the other Crimson Court trinkets it stands out because there actually are times where it will be my top trinket for the job even if those occasions are few and far between.
I have to completely agree with you. While i have only about 200 hours played so far, and haven't attempted the hardest difficulty, looking at these sets really makes me wonder why they gave them what they did. It's almost bizarre.
Man-at-arms skills when you have both the class trinkets Rampart, Bellows, Defender, Retribution Retribution instead of his normal crush as it does damage in a similar way and now he gets way stronger attack.
That's an idea i have been playing with, too, but i haven't actually gotten the items yet(RNG is a cruel mistress). Have you tested it and seen it to be good? Also, i found out with a test save of mine a possible way to farm all the paired trinkets in early game. You just have to body the croc and then retreat with the reward item only to return with the pain train( don't tell the Reptilian association about this!).
I have both, let me just say you can't do all of those. Generally you want to activate retribution first (for set bonus). But you also want to bellow first (to debuff everyone). But you also want to stun first. So in the end you have to make a choice anyway. As enemy start to die, you don't bother with bellow/retribution since chance of you been hit is just too low. So you end up just stunning. But wait, sometimes you can't stun (if enemy has been stunned before). So you guard? I totally agree with Filthyrobot's view. only bring retribution at boss fight. (or make a choice, generally either bellow turn 1 or Retribution turn 1)
I agree with you on this skillset with the set bonus, the only problem is when you accidentally kill the rank 1-2 enemy when you are trying to stress heal.
I'm not sure what the obsession is with using move so the leper can hit stuff. If I'm using move it's to stop an enemy I can't stun/kill from using their rank specific ability.
Having a particularly slow healer isn't that bad. Having them go at the end of one round is basically the same as going at the start of the next round; the only issues is if you were to walk in to a fight while on deaths door (which i dont think has ever happened). With a slow healer, generally your team attacks the enemy, then the enemy attacks your team, then the vestal heals them. I also think the idea with the trinket sets like the Vestal's is that, seeing as they're the "official" trinkets for that character, that they work on any given loadout. The plague doctor can equip her set and it helps a bit for whatever skills she's using; either blighting or stunning or stabbing, and the vestal can get some benefit whether she's pos 2 brawling or pos 4 healbotting, and the abomination gets bonuses whether he's frontline raging or midline stunning, etc.
The biggest problem of a slow healer IMO is when you get someone at Death's Door and bleeding/blighted. That character will act before the healer and will have to go through a Death's Door check, which might cause you to lose said character because of the speed disparity.
The point is saving someone in Death's door that is arguably the main focus of a healer.Keep peaple from getting a deathblow. So the faster the healer the better to save that guy with DoT that is on Deaths door or go before the enemy with a marked Death's door char.
the healer going last is only good if she goes after all of the enemies so she can heal before her allies act, which isn't something you should look forward to.
I tried to love the War Paint. I tried so hard to make it work and all it really accomplished was risking my Hellion's life for what averages out to be just a B tier damage trinket.
Halfway through the video - So far what I'm taking away is that Filthy needs to do a challenge run without Sun or Moon rings. Maybe he has already? I think that if they weren't in the game there would be a lot more interesting choices to make regarding trinkets.
Speed is a skill that makes the easy fights easier. I do not think it has as much value in a longer fight. I think Filthy over values it, and it colours all his decisions.
It pretty much always is useful. Even after the first round you're still going to want your stunners to go before the enemy they want to stun. You're still going to want your healer to go before the enemies and your other heroes. You're still going to want your damage dealers to have a chance to kill enemies before their turn. You still want to apply dots before an enemy takes his turn. It's one of the best stats and it is consistently useful on everyone.
One way of looking at it is that a slow character just misses their first round action, and then goes first every round after that. Missing an action is a huge deal, more so in a short fight. But I personally do not see it as big a swing as Filthy sometimes makes it out to be.
You're thinking it only applies in one fight. Each mission is a war of attrition. Every move you give the enemy is a move that you're forced to recover from or suffer for the rest of the dungeon. There's literally no reason to devalue speed. It also happens to be one of the very few stats that matter in this game. The way you described it make it sound like you think this is chess, but if that is so then you're just talking about tempo. Under no circumstances would I agree that it's ok to be a tempo down as white for any reason. The enemy gets two turns when you have one. You match. The enemy gets three turns while you have two. You match. It's a cycle that always puts you on the back foot.
Out of all these, basically only the old unit standard jumps out at me as a must-have, at least for some setups. Being able to run the +40% stun shield + that additional stun and other ok bonuses to boot seems great. Being able to actually stun "nearly stun immune" things - especially some bosses - can turn a nightmare into an easy fight. I just image running into a shambler with a man at arms with those two items and going "oh yea, no problem..." , and that's something you rarely get to say when you run into a shambler altar. In general for such an otherwise good game there are a lot of downright baffling balance decisions on items. They really are all over the place, resulting in 80% sell-junk, 15% usable items, and 5% borderline OP ones - and rarity is no garantuee whatsoever that an item will be good or even "above useless".
it seems to me like the cc trinkets were trying to cover every base for each character while having little to nothing that really stood out or targeted their strong points
wait a second. did he just say he barely uses the move skill on occultist? he does know that's a goddamned beautiful corpse clear + move + low damage on the back 3 ranks, right?
I don´t understand Red Hook regarding the trinkets in DD; most of them are uttery useless; and then the set items are like this; most of them apply useless bonuses which do nothing for the character and give them huge downsides
8:35 i know i'm a few years late but i don't care, i'd like to point out that this boosts her move *chance* and not her move *resist* so that she can use bolas more effectively.
He basically just plays low light. So he Ignores everything thats a highlight strat. Leper is terrible for low light and awesome in High light. See where I'm getting at?
Now I understand why items, and several heroes are bad compared to others in ng+ and no light. Atributes are granted by lore, not balance. As example i bring one of Leper items - Last Will and Testament: It gives -10% death blow resist and it is fairly logic, that having testament makes you less willing to live. Highwayman's Shameful Locket give him more stress and according to his lore comic, he killed mother with son by accident.
Filthy! you should make a compilation video of the most frustrating deaths and your reactions lol! Like then explain how you got railed by RNG. unless you already have done it i'd like to watch it. I wonder if you stress like i do when you get a wipe of 4 players holding good trinkets.
I subscribed as i love your vids but I have a single question.You shit on +dodge as its useless on hard mode at no light and you also shit on -dodge because its minus dodge, i understand that to a degree but why do you shit on -dodge if its so useless on the scenarios of "Darkest Dungeon"(Bloodmoon at no light" why even mention the -Dodge?.Great guide and i really enjoy your content but its something i noticed.
For me, the problem with this video is that you can't always have good items like sun ring or moon ring since you tend to get them from the lvl 3 quests and since it is very possible to get crimson court items early on, you should not say that they are terrible in comparison to the best items in the game because when you don't have those items suddenly some items like the Crime Lords' Molars become great.
Bartosz Kabała well, his guide videos are aiming at tackling endgame content with the items, and you get like a total of 2 CC items or something like that from the first CC mission you run with the croc (after that it's all level 3 and up and you should have sun/moon rings by then). Honestly what you bring to apprentice level dungeons doesn't really matter that much anyway most of the time, even on higher difficulty runs. Not all of them are compared to the sun ring anyway, some like the shard of glass compare to items considerably easier to get. So you have to get one of the good ones with the apprentice level to get that power boost early. I did get sharpened letter opener as my first one on my first CC run and put that to good use (still do whenever I'm using a GR), so it happens sometimes of course.
The criticisms are so sound (and arguably obvious) in light of the mechanics one has to wonder what they were hoping to achieve. If you want players to care, especially when it's not a given you'll get a complete set on a play through, it stands to reason the set must at least be as good as any alternative. If we accept that logic then it seems to me they got it backwards. How about making each individual trinket comparable with available alternatives but put the really juicy benefits on the set bonus? What's more, make those bonuses applicable regardless of how you want to play the class rather than 'forcing' a certain flavour to the class, a flavour that might well be less than ideal as is currently implemented. The result would be you'd ALWAYS want the set, plus you get replayability through seeing what a class you might otherwise view as weak/meh is like with some significant bonuses regardless of how you choose to skill them. Given all that, I wonder what their concern was? As things stand, however, I think you rather hilariously highlighted how apparently contradictory they are (bonuses on skills almost never used with a penalty that matters all the time, for example), often worse than other options if not downright bad by any standard. Weird.
I live for Filthy's brief rage bursts at any mention of the Leper.
lol, I always found this hilarious, and I feel he had like, the worst ever quest once because of one.
I try them occasionally, with a focus ring either crit or damage trinkets, but the class seems to lack any real utility.
@DawnWatch How exactly do you "tank" with the Leper?
@DawnWatch You can't really tank in this game, i.e. you have no way of telling enemies to hit the Leper instead of one of your 3 other guys.
The only thing you can do is make the Antiquarian guard herself with him. But this still leaves 2 other guys. And there are better classes to use with the Antiquarian's guard, namely the Flagellant and the Highwayman.
Also, take the game's warning seriously and switch off Crimson Court for your first playthrough.
Feel free to DM me should you need some tips.
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42:30 lost a perfect chance to praise the item for increasing the chance of killing the Leper
Losing the Leper isn't good if he's doing a challenge run, though, because then he has to go through the pain of leveling a new one.
Ty. It's a jooooke
lol!
I've been waiting for this one. Can't wait for Filthy to shit on every trinket i like to use.
Also, at least Vestals can use the beads effectively outside of combat. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
^BRUH
*_Nymphomania quirk intensifies_*
That's why they're paired with the salacious diary (DD fan fic)
All the trinkets in the game are shit, not surprising if he does. I honestly don't know why some of these items are so fucking bad.
Filthy is the Gordon Ramsay of Darkest Dungeon! Great & informative vid, as always.
Finally some good fucking loot
@@schweppes1313 lol
31:30 According to game's wiki, Virtue Chance is capped at 95%.
Disclaimer: Virtue chance is capped at 95%. Thanks for the video and your insight on your thoughts on the items!
And Plaque doctor's set item would be quite nice in CC, *if* subject #40 wouldn't be such a useless specimen(or the note taker so inept).
PS. IMO leper is trash due to his skillset, but his accuracy on his damage skills is actually only 10 lower than the common 105 mark(while things like vestal fall short by five). That means that highly consistent accuracy increase(made more consistent by the first item) is a +5 acc on top of the normal and ~ *max* acc on the other skills. Too bad that the paired items otherwise prevent you to itemize for this advantage...
Ah Leper, you Red Hook's left hook.
Yeah if the leper could attack pos 3, he would actually be a playable character. Like this he is just a worse crusader.
Yeah, I don't see how people think the Leper's accuracy is a real problem. I mean the two most used damage boosting items in the also happen to fix accuracy. All you have to do is put a sun or moon ring on him and he is good to go.
His real down side is his absolutely horrible lack of reach and extremely rigid positioning requirements, but those are understandable draw backs given his god tier damage and hp and amazingly good self sustain and tanking. I mean if you look at the raw power of his abilities it's amazing. I think people tend to underestimate him. You just need to make sure you play him with characters that can help re-position him like the Grave Robber and run proper scouting so you don't get surprised . So long as you have fast characters that can put him back where he belongs before he moves then it's not a big deal. I personally don't play with him much, but he is not nearly as useless as everybody claims.
For the most part i can't but agree with you, but while even in his preferred position, he is only good at doing the thing you *don't* want to do in the first place.
The basic virtue chance is 25%, is *always* at least 1% and is capped at *95%* . It is increased and decreased by trinkets and quirks additively(like any other stat). A hero gains a 5% virtue penalty per the level difference in a higher leveled dungeon, except, when the level difference is 6(0 in DD), where the penalty is 33%(but still the minimum of 1%).
Those are the values pulled from the game a while ago. I don't know if Crimson Court changed things up(which i doubt), but if not, you're operating on hearsay.
Coming up next - "How good are all the trinkets in the game???"
If that vid ever comes out, it will be 911 hours long.
Statisticserino Kripperino Rania! We lost one of our Kripperinoes! Babyrage
Btw, here is the timing for all the trinkets:
Abomination:
0:48 - Shameful Shroud
1:48 - Osmond Chains
3:20 - Overall set effect
Antiquarian:
4:09 - The Master's Essence
4:52 - Two of Three
5:20 - Overall set effect
Arbalest:
7:13 - Childhood Treasure
8:23 - Bedtime Story
10:05 - Overall set effect
Bounty Hunter:
11:31 - Crime Lord's Molars and Vengeful Kill List
15:58 - Overall set effect
Crusader:
16:31 - Glittering Spaulders and Overall set effect will be there a bit later
18:17 - Signed Conscription
Flagellant:
19:11 - Chipped Tooth
20:13 - Overall set effect
35 - Shard of Glass
Grave Robber:
22:49 - Absinthe
24:36 - Sharpened Letter Opener
25:10 - Overall set effect
Hellion:
26:32 - Lioness Warpaint
28:15 - Mark of the Outcast
29:06 - Overall set effect
Highwayman:
29:50 - Blooded Neckerchief
31:12 - Shameful Locket
31:24 - Overall set orgasm
Houndmaster:
32:30 - Evidence of Corruption
33:49 - Battered Lawman's Badge
34:57 - Overall set effect
Jester:
36:26 - Tyrant's Tasting Cup
38:08 - Overall set effect
38:29 - Tyrant's Fingerbone
Leper:
39:39 - Last Will of Testament
41:23 - Overall set effect
41:46 - Tin Fluke
Man-at-Arms:
43:41 - Old Unit Standard
45:15 - Toy Soldier
45:48 - Overall set orgasm
Occultist:
46:38 - Blood Pact
48:25 - Vial of Sand
49:07 - Overall set effect
Plague Doctor:
49:46 - Subject #40 Notes
49:58 - Overall set orgasm
50:06 - Dissection Kit
Vestal:
52:06 - Atonement Beads
52:40 - Satacious Diary
52:53 - Overall set BabyRage
Statisticserino Kripperino From now youre my fav kripperino
ty m8
I think the video will just be a list of crap items that are never worth using, then going more in depth with the few good items in the game, wouldn't take much more than 2 hours (for two videos) I think
Move skill chance isn't the same as move resist
(Arbalest 9:20)
It just makes it worse that it isn't move resist but still.
yea, it affects her bola skill chance :D And not resist of being moved
I can't imagine what horrible trauma caused this guy to hate the leper so much
Party wipes because the walking dead Leper couldn't see from behind his stupid fucking mask.
If your leper misses his hits so much, get him some accuracy trinkets. I use Sun Ring + Focus Ring on my Leper and it works like a charm.
Except that's not even his main problem. His main problem is that he can only do one thing. Namely hitting the front ranks. This is not a particularly valued skill in most scenarios and it's his ONLY SOMEWHAT GOOD FEATURE. This problem is the secondary issue that even if you want that, the leper doesn't do it well because he's made of inaccuracy. Oh and if you use the skill to fix it you flub an entire turn throwing away that big damage you liked so much. Literally over half the classes in the motherfucking game can do his purported job better than him while being built to also do better more important things.
He gets crit x2 by Subterranean Skewer who goes after your healer, and because leper always goes last in every round(because he's trash) he bleeds out and dies with your sun Ring and Focus Ring never having contributed anything. Meanwhile Hellion did 33 damage to it and the Vestal finished it off before it acted because she went 2nd in the round and does backrank damage.
I want to like Leper because of his big fat damage numbers. But he's the slowest hero in the game, he misses ALL THE FUCKING TIME, and his utility is trash. He can't stun, he can't stress heal, he can't heal, he does position 1 and 2 damage and clears corpses. What good is he? Giving your opponents lots of actions, that's what he's good at.
It's not so much that the leper does things badly more often. It's that he almost never is in a position to do anything really good. You almost never say to yourself "Thank goodness I just crit the shit out of that first position guy."
Bloodied Neckerchief, Shameful Locket "A reflex - I didn't mean to..."
Holy fuck, it's impressive how this game can tell a story with one item desccription
Yah, the atmosphere in DD is absolutely top notch. Ambiance, lore, and especially artwork. What a gem of a game.
The Plague Doctor is a woman.
have you asked the PD what it identify as?
"I dont understand why this exists at all" seems to be a very common theme with DD items. I have no idea why they are so silly, and even good items aren't too exciting to play with. When a character only has two slots items better be very awesome but for some reason DD devs decided to go meh route.
wait a second, filthy, -2 speed on a crusader isn't even a big deal, he literally can't get any slower, the only way he can be faster than the enemies is if you stack up some first round bonus speed and get speed perks....his base speed is 1, it doesn't improve very much, and nothing in the game goes after the crusader EVER
-10 speed is the same as 0 speed XD
Actually I've thought about getting a crusader intentionally blood cursed so he has some decent base speed, as all stages of blood curse (haven't let a hero get to wasting yet) offer +2 speed bonus.
-2 speed will definitely be a factor although I agree it's less so for crusader. The random dice roll addition of up to 8 means the -2 can theoretically hurt the crusader's initiative.
lmao of course HM and MAA have the best trinkets. I'm pretty sure the DD devs just run entire rosters composed of these two chars.
Something I found interesting on the Battered Lawmen's badge when compared to the scouting whistle and opportunity cost.
From the wiki on scouting whistle
+30% Scouting Chance if Torch below 51
+20% Trap Disarm
In Radiant Light the Scouting bonus is 15%, and below 51 has no bonus. Thus the scouting bonus is +15% in below 51 light.
make this for all trinkets PLEASE
I feel like with many of these, they are designed as if you had constant access to their entire skill kit. They give all around buffs to all of the facets of the class, and having them be all around stronger at everything, and more versatile as a result, is pretty neat. But since you DON'T have access to all their skills at all times, they just tend to be terrible.
In fact it's even worse. They are buffs like the vestals ones that you can only get in different ranks like filthy said
That's an interesting thought, actually...
Well you know you can change your skills mid dungeon, so you could use one set of skills for the trash and switch some around for the boss and the items will benefit both loadouts. Although I do agree on some of the sets being bad, but I do like the antiquarian, arbalest, crusader, houndmaster, leper, and man-at-arms sets. And I use the chipped tooth and salacious diary as individual items a lot.
Because you need a well constructed team of four with abilities that compliment each others and compensate for their weaknesses.
I love the letter opener on a lunge Grave Robber where the extra damage is often that point or two you need to one hit those rank 3 and 4 enemies and the dodge bonus is very nice on her. I run a position 4 Grave Robber with this trinket and her amazing Raider's Talisman with a Man at Arms as my stunner in position two and it's awesome. The trinket combo and her natural speed allows her to go before the Man at Arms without error. This means she opens with a lunge into position two, pushes the Man at Arms into position 3, where he then Ramparts for the stun and moves forward into position two, pushing the Grave robber back to position 3, where she can then lunge immediately again on her second turn. I usually run this pair with an Occultist as my healer with some + speed and he generally opens with Eldritch Artillery and then on round two he either heals or shanks a survivor in the front rows because the last two rows are already dead. This set up absolutely decimates the back rows usually allowing only one enemy of your choice to get in a single attack from back there.
Oof, you misread the Bedtime Story's Move Skill Chance (not Move Resist). Not sure how much you would reassess the trinket, but it improves the chance moving with the Bolas. Hopefully, you didn't misread the debuff skill chance too.
Yep, you can partially cheese the undead crew by dragging them to the front. The crew can still do their shenanigans but the anchorman can't do anything
Grave Robber's Shadow Fade (i.e pocket sand) is a melee skill but it only benefits from the accuracy.
A quick comparison between Dissection Kit and Bloody Herb has the herb coming out on top (It gives accuracy to stab, 5% less bleed chance, 5% less damage for Melee and 25% less damage for ranged).
guess he hasn't beaten crimson court at the time the video aired, but you can farm them all quite easily from the garden guardian (a boss encounter you can run as many times as you like)
also, you can use dazzling light from rank two, and he keeps mixing up skill chance and resist all the time
I listened to this while doing the viscount courtyard quest made the run really chill.
Mark of the Outcast has +3 SPD, by the way.
Thanks for another great video, can't w8 to see next ones, this is very informative andhelpfull so keep up the good work
that sound at 29:59 sounded like a bullet casing falling on the floor
rododendron85 sounded like a hitter to me haha.
The Hellion items synergize with one another pretty well. The Death Blow resist helps if you are at low health (benefiting from the damage bonuses) and then get taken to death's door, and the minus healing can take you off of death's door and you can still get healed but not enough to make you lose the damage bonuses.
Also, if you're Crusader is already going last because he is slow as fuck, what is the problem with lowering his speed? Also, the healing item is good for trash mobs while the spaulders are good for bosses, so you can benefit from them the entire dungeon. Having a slow healer isn't bad because if you itemize to have fast damage classes going before the enemy, and they then take damage putting them on death's door with a DoT, the slow healer can still heal them before they act next round.
Stunning blow means he can pull his weight as a stunner but is hampered down by low base speed. Thus he wants something to prop that up so he won't go pretty much last in line and risk getting stunned himself.
The way I run leper is the heal, hew, the protection mark, and intimidate. The damage debuff is pretty good against anything that does damage, as long as you have one stack of the protection you're fine, Hew for utility and the heal to stay alive. And if you have nothing better to do double stack the protection. Maybe have him along side an antiquitarian too, she only has to cast protect me once on him since he has his own protection, and it gives her something better to do, like helping heal with her new double heal, or spamming blight.
The mini-rants on the Crusader (16:29) and Grave Robber (22:36) items are great.
His hate for the grave robbers blight skill made me give it a go to see how useful it is despite initially dismissing it. Turns out it's pretty handy for removing GR's weakspot of high protection enemies, and the blight resist debuff/high acc makes it a good pairing with the plague doctor.
Dunno about the CC trinket now, but he's actually managed to swing my opinion of the skill in the exact opposite direction of his own.
Thatdude, good for you. Poison darts for the GR is a useful skill, that myself, and others use, and have been using for along time. The fact that Filthy doesn't see its value, and keeps insisting that "no one" uses the GRs blight skill is disappointing to me, tho I do agree that using a trinket to enhance it, from my experience, is unnecessary as it seems to land, and tick quite often without. Relating to the CC trinkets, the Absinthe, or whatever, I won't be using it ever because that -20% hp on a GR is just too much. However, the Sharpened LO seems good, will use that one at some point. Overall, thought it was a very informative video, and agreed with quite a bit of it.
Mark of the Outcast (The Hellion +bleed% +deathblow% -healing received % trinket) gives +3 Speed as well. I've been using it a lot because of that. The wiki has it wrong on that one. Does this change your view of it at all?
What is the recommended loadout for a Leper? Assuming full light run, I have it narrowed down to Ancestor Candle, Ancestor Pen, Focus Ring, Sun Ring, and/or Surgical Gloves. I just don't know what the optimal combination of these trinkets. What is the consensus?
Focus ring and sun ring. You need to get accuracy on the leper so he'll be as accurate as the other classes with just a sun ring.
I'm watching a lot of your vids kinda late as I wait for new episodes of the 'Shieldbreaker' run you have going (one the new class, btw); Agree quite a bit with many of your trinket reviews, though I will say that the Antiquarian's set is actually really good, as it seems to combine the best bonuses from ALL of her other trinkets. Also note that the debuff skill chance also applies to her Blight's secondary chance to lower blight resistance.
I feel like maybe some of the trinkets were geared more for lore enjoyment in a way-the Graverobber’s disease and blight resist etc being related to her profession-but it seems an odd choice to add in items with such high risk/rarity that are more novelty than dazzle. Unless they’re trying to make it not hurt so much to miss out on them? Who knows.
I also don’t know if this was a thing in the patch where this video was made, but her thrown dagger hits harder on blighted targets, so maybe they’re determined to push that play style. I suspect FR would say that’s using two actions for what could be done more efficiently, and that’s hard to argue esp as a newbie who feels a fairly visceral rush of terror about leaving Those Damn Stress Casters up.
As much as I despise Lepers for the reasons described many times already, there was one occasion wich I remember from My first finished campain, where bringing Leper was the best decision I could ever think of, and that was DD 3, because my composition of Vestal, Houndmaster, Leper and Helion was revolving around having 3 "oh shit" buttons to kill off the white cell, while Leper (and other one of the three) would pour damage into the mammont cyst. That got me the easiest DD3 I could ever imagine, with 0 teleports around, because I just got straight shot to the finish and booked out.
Hey Filthy, thanks for these videos. They have been tremendously helpful for my gameplay so far. Will you make a dark run guide too? That would be wonderful.
Good suggestion!
Does the bounty Hunter item stack with itself though? For example, if you stun , bleed, and Mark a target, do you get plus 45% damage?
Andddddd @13:00 we find out filthy did this video before his hour long horse beating of marks and stuns.
Also- how did not youtube try to make this an age restricted video? Filthy's mouth.
But what if the Bounty Hunter attacks a target that's marked, stunned, and bleeding? PogChamp
You have spend 3 actions to set that up, one is marking which deals no damage; another is bleeding which is fair but has the chance to not work, another is stunning which is fair but has a chance to not work And the Hunter must be faster to exploit. All of that for a 45% bonus, credit where credit is due the bonus against marked target may ramp it up to 90% bonus damage. You did all this gamble with the status effects chances, spent 3 normal attacks for something else and all you recieve is almost 1 extra. You are better off using the 3 normal attacks.
Ever heard of a mark party?
Still one action wasted doing something else than stress/wound healing or damage dealing
That doesn't make it bad. That's like saying stunning is worthless because you could just hit an enemy. Bounty Hunter's come hither got buffed so it marks the target in addition to pulling, so it's not as if you're wasting turns marking with BH as opposed to something more sensible like an occultist, either. 15% damage on marked makes Collect Bounty always deal more than double damage when marking first, while the bleed is also great because houndmaster is a staple of mark teams. Damage vs stunning I'll give you, people don't really run finish him for the damage versus stunning; they run it to hit pos 3.
Unless you have a mod class that can successfully applies all 3 effects at the same time, then it would hurt them so much that you even feel pain for them
Otherwise, it's quite hard to applies all 3 effects for the Bounty Hunter to execute his attack
In a campaign right now where I have the choice between focus ring, and blasphemous vial. Any idea which one I should take?
No, they're both excellent.
Do you run plague doctors often? Base your decision off which one you'll use more in the near future.
Hey Filthy, I realised that the 2nd hellion trinket is not correct on the wiki and in the video. It also gives 3 speed which is pretty amazing on a hellion, no?
I thought Mark of the outcast also gives hellion 3 speed. Have they changed it recently?
De buff skill on antiquarian is actually pretty good. Stalling a fight against a double-wide that can’t hit anything is good.
Not a low light thing, since dodge isn’t useful there, but for those of us that like our torches it’s not shabby.
Is the Arbalest heal, THAT much worse than the single target Vestal heal? I don't tend to use them as a solo healer because they can't heal rank 4 but the raw number isn't as small as you made it sound, Plague Doctor or Antiquarian have small heals.
How do you lock in a positive quirk and negative quirk on ps4?
Is there any chance you'd revisit these post-sun ring nerf? A common theme over the duration of this video seems to be "this is actually not bad, but a sun ring's better;" but then sun rings got nerfed and are now about as strong as a rare trinket should be.
And I might be wrong, but I also think some of the sets themselves have been rebalanced slightly or even reworked since this was uploaded.
No, but I'm really looking forward to the upcoming DD2 and analyzing it!
I'd say the Arbilest's bedtime story is actually very good. with both of those trinkets, and combined with the bounty hunter, she was the main reason I beat the final boss the first time. she was consistently hitting for 50+ damage and stress healing herself. with the bounty hunter in as well, the mark is taken advantage of, and the added protection from the set bonus is great because enemies seem to target the arbililest too often and she can't heal herself, so more tankiness is very important for her.
plus the move chance makes bola more effective, especially to move the bigger enemies in rank 1 that she can't hit otherwise
Could you make a video where you suggest some ways the leper could be improved or changed so he would be good?
anybody know if it's worth keeping blood cursed heroes? seems to me that they force you to take up an inventory slot that could be filled with something useful, for a minor POSSIBLE damage buff with a permanant debuff to resistances/increased stress
I actually like the Vestal with Profane Scroll + Atonement Beads. You get a strong party heal and a great damage dealer wrapped into one.
The point of the plague doctor set is that it allows the plague doctor to be ran in the crimson court area, which is something you couldn't do otherwise because blight is useless there.
For the Subject #40 notes: You are correct in that the plague doctor does have highish disease resist and can cure them, however she cannot cure the crimson curse. Despite it's name the crimson curse is in fact a disease which is affected by disease resist, and getting this item puts the chance of getting the disease down to 8% per hit, as opposed to the typical 30%. It also provides hp which is relevant for her other paired item, the dissection kit.
The dissection kit is obviously used to emphasize the plague doctors incision attack. It's her only means of bleed and thus she's likely to spend her time closer to the front if that's the damage source she's being used for (as she would be if you wanted to use her in the crimson court). This makes the health on the subject #40 notes more useful since leaning towards the front leads to more damage. Also the raw damage increase is pretty large for having no negative attached compared to other items that provide similar benefits.
The blight and stun bonuses are nice but secondary to it's bleed and anti crimson curse emphasis. Essentially the bonus is just there to make those abilities not-useless in a situation with lots of blight resist.
thatdudeinthecotton well when I'm using a court plague doctor I'll use the kit and the blody herbs. Id never use the notes wich means the setbonus is fucking useless. Plus a melee plauge doctor is just useless. If you coukd hit rank 3 it would be pretty great.
Well, Using the herb isn't that great a choice, cause the thing about picking up the bloody herb is that the dissection kit already puts the plague doctors chance of bleeding any enemy in the courtyard at 100% since their bleed resist is so low, so you're not getting any benefit from stacking it. If you want raw damage there are better items to do that. Also the courtyard has relatively few enemies in position 3 that need to be killed. The manservants and mosquitoes that deal stress damage tend to be all over the place, so hitting rank 3 isn't quite as necessary as it would be typically (though of course it is helpful).
Anyways the main reason you'd take PD isn;t her damage but her utility, if she needs to hit rank 3 PD can act as a stunner with her disorientating blast for clearing corpses, or blinding gas for crowd control. Both of those moves that are significantly improved by the CC class trinket synergy. As for the blight synergy being useless, that's not actually all that true. The only enemies with notable blight resistance in the courtyard are the mosquitoes and the bosses. And even then it's a 50/50 for the mosquitoes and a 75% chance for the bosses with this kit. Most enemies only have a 20% chance of not getting blighted, so using plague to get the last tick on a 3rd or 4th rank enemy is actually pretty dang reasonable.
The only item that gives better chance for blighting is the blasphemous vial, but then you're trading
15% health and 30% crimson curse/disease resist
For:
5% more blight chance, 25% more stun chance (in an area with low stun resist enemies) and +25% extra stress damage taken.
For an area you are expected to stay in for long periods of time that is a terrible trade.
On the Molars, does it stack? If it stacks then what if you mark someone, stun them, and bleed them? That's an up to 45% damage boost right?
Yes and then you wake up xD
Are you sure the bounty hunter's 15% dmg buff doesn't stack? I don't think it would be too hard to get a mark/bleed/stun combo off, and 45% dmg seems pretty decent to me.
Crime lord's molars I'd almost only take for the added damage to stunned monsters because most comps in which I have the bounty hunter, I run with more stunners then I really should. Like the Vestal, avoiding + or - stun items on her and sorta using it when everyone is max hp. The hound master can stun where his anti stun attack can be used anyways and with both of them speed buffed they can do sick combos with the plus damage makes it easier to two shot a target. If you don't kill it on the first round, it's stunned. No big deal. I also like to run with that combo, Plague doctor, with that said, it's pretty much a trash mob farmer of a comp. Most times, you blight, stun and hunter a target they will die most times before they act, IF Rng does not chose to mess you up. As the item good? I feel it's a gimmick that is fun to mess around with in easier none boss modes other wise meh.
Other nice use for the BH items are to melt many bosses, as you can stack the bonuses easily with a mark comp like Arb, HM, Occ and BH. You have all of the triggers with you and without any additional kitting, meaning that you can blast some bosses with 16 + high crit% + 15% + 15% + 15% + 90/60%(depending on boss pos.) + another possible DMG item(the Sunbling etc). Now that's some dangerous level of rape, right there.
As an anti boss items, yush I'd say it's one of the easier items to work into you're set up. The draw backs is some bosses can remove marks fast due to muti turns they get which makes it hard for stuns the same way. So if you're getting good Rng on the right boss it can melt that boss like it's nothing. I also like how this damage it adds stacks with damage items so their %s ad to this item's damage.
Doesn't the mark of the outcast give speed?
How about a vid suggesting the best effects to seek in trinkets for each class (speed on healers, dmg in hellions, stun chance in maa)???????
+speed on everything
Holy shit how didnt i find u before? U know so much about the game and explain it so cool, thanks mate really looking forward to get more dd content from u!
I don't understand all this hate on leper. I just give him accuracy trinket and he works just fine
BRaat Marczanu I know right? Just hive him a focus ring and he hits most of his attacks.
BRaat Marczanu All of his damaging abilities hit the targets you don't want to hit at the start of the fight. Well, okay, if you use occultist to move one of the high priority targets forward you've essentially wasted 2 actions for a chance at a one shot. Comparably with any other good dps, they can usually attack the positions without wasting an occultist action and are more consistent and can have better items. It's not efficient in the slightest, which doesn't work in high level dungeons on the hardest difficulty.
I mean it is not super useful but dont all of the effects of the bounty hunter stack, so you get 45% more damage and 9% more crit on a bled stunned and marked character?
Well, diseas resist on Plague Doctor and Graverobber is a bit justified since Crimson Curse can be resisted but not cured.
Can we get a "How good are the Ancestral trinkets"? Nice video filthy.
They changed the virtue cap to %95. So you actually do get the whole %45 bonus on the highwayman.
I'm surprised that you didn't talk about how you have to run the occultist items in low light, making the set bonus less useful because base dodge gets lowered.
One of the things filthy frequently says is that dodge isn't that great because you're still likely to get hit unless you're rocking something like 50 dodge. Also dodge heroes have to trade off hp which is more valuable,
The Occultist has one of the highest base dodges in the game which means even in low light he will have enough dodge to get below the 90% max accuracy cap even in torchless runs which means that any bonus dodge he gets will make him harder to hit. The only time dodge becomes useless is when it is low enough that the enemy's accuracy caps at 90% and with the Occultist that won't happen except in very extreme cases with a few Blood Moon difficulty, no torch, final dungeon enemies.
So say you have a champion enemy with very high accuracy of like 110% because of low light and a high base accuracy and a character with 10% dodge. In this case the character's dodge is utterly useless because it's not high enough to bring the enemy's accuracy down below the max of 90%. It will also do no good to give this character a +10% dodge trinket because it still only brings the enemy's accuracy chance down to 90% which is the cap.
Now if you have somebody like the Occultist with a dodge of 30% this same enemy only has an 80% chance to hit him under the same conditions because his dodge is high enough to overcome the enemy's boosted accuracy and the 90% cap. If you give this Occultist the same +10% dodge trinket instead of being worthless you get full value from it which is to lower the odds of the enemy hitting him by 10% for a total of a 20% chance to dodge or 1 in 5.
Remember the assumptions he's been making (and forgot to mention in the past few videos): hardest difficulty and no light.
Right, and this item forces you to do low light. So the fact that it has +dodge for the set bonus is actually rather bad, you're either not getting use of the set bonus or of the item bonus (unless you can somehow stack more dodge on him to be worth something, but I don't think that is super good with the occultist in low light.)
The only thing I seriously disagree with in this video is the shard of glass. I tend to use it with the bleed charm so really you're getting 55% bleed skill chance for 4 dodge. Granted it does take both slots but it makes almost every bleed land so...
You should do a challenge run where you're forced to use bad skills like Blight Graverobber or Melee Plague Doctor or Ranged Highwayman.
The crime lord's molar's are good in boss fights and against big critters like the giants where his targets will often have at least two of the effects this item triggers on and often all three. A 45% damage boost on a single item is massive when it comes to getting rid of a giant or a boss. I tend to already run my Bounty Hunter with a Hound Master and Occultist which means even in normal every day fights his targets will often already be bleeding, stunned or on some occasions even marked by the Occultist. He is also the slowest of these three characters which means he is often on mop up duty after the Hound Master and Occultist have stunned, marked and or bled that last big +prot mob.
This item provides extremely high damage against foes where you will need it most which are the big elite mobs and bosses you are focusing down with multiple characters, but will only sometimes provide respectable damage boosting against mid tier mobs. Against trash tier enemies like spiders or skeleton grunts it will do absolutely nothing since you will be one shotting them anyway.
Sadly, the vast majority of fights don't involve the sort of enemies where this trinket will shine so on average it's not amazing. In a regular dungeon, even the Weald, I don't think it's good enough to be worth taking over the usual top tier damage trinkets like a moon ring, but if you are short on proper damage trinkets its not a bad option even in vanilla dungeons. The higher the dungeon level and the higher the difficulty setting, the better this item becomes because it shines against big enemies that require focusing down by multiple heroes but does nothing for one shotting trash mobs.
The one place I actually do use this as best in slot is when I am hunting veteran and champion bosses that can be stunned and bled since it's going to be doing +30% to +45% damage every round. I know that is a very narrow niche, but unlike most of the other Crimson Court trinkets it stands out because there actually are times where it will be my top trinket for the job even if those occasions are few and far between.
I have to completely agree with you. While i have only about 200 hours played so far, and haven't attempted the hardest difficulty, looking at these sets really makes me wonder why they gave them what they did. It's almost bizarre.
Man-at-arms skills when you have both the class trinkets
Rampart, Bellows, Defender, Retribution
Retribution instead of his normal crush as it does damage in a similar way and now he gets way stronger attack.
That's an idea i have been playing with, too, but i haven't actually gotten the items yet(RNG is a cruel mistress). Have you tested it and seen it to be good? Also, i found out with a test save of mine a possible way to farm all the paired trinkets in early game. You just have to body the croc and then retreat with the reward item only to return with the pain train( don't tell the Reptilian association about this!).
Sadly I don't yet have the crimson court dlc so I can only theorycraft.
I have both, let me just say you can't do all of those. Generally you want to activate retribution first (for set bonus). But you also want to bellow first (to debuff everyone). But you also want to stun first.
So in the end you have to make a choice anyway.
As enemy start to die, you don't bother with bellow/retribution since chance of you been hit is just too low. So you end up just stunning. But wait, sometimes you can't stun (if enemy has been stunned before).
So you guard?
I totally agree with Filthyrobot's view. only bring retribution at boss fight. (or make a choice, generally either bellow turn 1 or Retribution turn 1)
I agree with you on this skillset with the set bonus, the only problem is when you accidentally kill the rank 1-2 enemy when you are trying to stress heal.
I'm not sure what the obsession is with using move so the leper can hit stuff. If I'm using move it's to stop an enemy I can't stun/kill from using their rank specific ability.
Gentle Ice you can use the bounty hounters uppercut to move and stun a 2nd rank target and the leper can hit the 3rd rank target.
The arbalist is move skills not resistance. It's a buff to bola
All I got from this video was "Marked is bad, never use it. Leper is unplayable"
oh boy another 1 hour filthy video
Having a particularly slow healer isn't that bad. Having them go at the end of one round is basically the same as going at the start of the next round; the only issues is if you were to walk in to a fight while on deaths door (which i dont think has ever happened).
With a slow healer, generally your team attacks the enemy, then the enemy attacks your team, then the vestal heals them.
I also think the idea with the trinket sets like the Vestal's is that, seeing as they're the "official" trinkets for that character, that they work on any given loadout. The plague doctor can equip her set and it helps a bit for whatever skills she's using; either blighting or stunning or stabbing, and the vestal can get some benefit whether she's pos 2 brawling or pos 4 healbotting, and the abomination gets bonuses whether he's frontline raging or midline stunning, etc.
if you surprise your opponent they will then get 2 full rounds without your healer and that is pretty bad
The biggest problem of a slow healer IMO is when you get someone at Death's Door and bleeding/blighted. That character will act before the healer and will have to go through a Death's Door check, which might cause you to lose said character because of the speed disparity.
The point is saving someone in Death's door that is arguably the main focus of a healer.Keep peaple from getting a deathblow.
So the faster the healer the better to save that guy with DoT that is on Deaths door or go before the enemy with a marked Death's door char.
the healer going last is only good if she goes after all of the enemies so she can heal before her allies act, which isn't something you should look forward to.
Acting after an injury occurs in the round that it occurs is as good as acting before the injured character in the next round.
I tried to love the War Paint. I tried so hard to make it work and all it really accomplished was risking my Hellion's life for what averages out to be just a B tier damage trinket.
I really like the flavor text on some of the items
Yeah, there's no denying that portion of the items is great, but that doesn't mean I'm ever going to equip them =/
Halfway through the video - So far what I'm taking away is that Filthy needs to do a challenge run without Sun or Moon rings. Maybe he has already? I think that if they weren't in the game there would be a lot more interesting choices to make regarding trinkets.
i SAW THIS WHEN IT CAME OUT. 2 MONTHS LATER... STILL QUALITY.
Mark of the outcast gives +3 speed. Its actually pretty damn good.
Speed is a skill that makes the easy fights easier. I do not think it has as much value in a longer fight. I think Filthy over values it, and it colours all his decisions.
It pretty much always is useful. Even after the first round you're still going to want your stunners to go before the enemy they want to stun. You're still going to want your healer to go before the enemies and your other heroes. You're still going to want your damage dealers to have a chance to kill enemies before their turn. You still want to apply dots before an enemy takes his turn. It's one of the best stats and it is consistently useful on everyone.
One way of looking at it is that a slow character just misses their first round action, and then goes first every round after that. Missing an action is a huge deal, more so in a short fight. But I personally do not see it as big a swing as Filthy sometimes makes it out to be.
You're thinking it only applies in one fight. Each mission is a war of attrition. Every move you give the enemy is a move that you're forced to recover from or suffer for the rest of the dungeon. There's literally no reason to devalue speed. It also happens to be one of the very few stats that matter in this game.
The way you described it make it sound like you think this is chess, but if that is so then you're just talking about tempo. Under no circumstances would I agree that it's ok to be a tempo down as white for any reason. The enemy gets two turns when you have one. You match. The enemy gets three turns while you have two. You match. It's a cycle that always puts you on the back foot.
Speed is pretty much the best attribute in the game. It is incredibly strong getting to move ahead of your foes.
I would debate that speed is the best stat. It's definitely one of the best and it's clearly the most ubiquitously useful, but it isn't a clear best.
Out of all these, basically only the old unit standard jumps out at me as a must-have, at least for some setups.
Being able to run the +40% stun shield + that additional stun and other ok bonuses to boot seems great. Being able to actually stun "nearly stun immune" things - especially some bosses - can turn a nightmare into an easy fight.
I just image running into a shambler with a man at arms with those two items and going "oh yea, no problem..." , and that's something you rarely get to say when you run into a shambler altar.
In general for such an otherwise good game there are a lot of downright baffling balance decisions on items. They really are all over the place, resulting in 80% sell-junk, 15% usable items, and 5% borderline OP ones - and rarity is no garantuee whatsoever that an item will be good or even "above useless".
it seems to me like the cc trinkets were trying to cover every base for each character while having little to nothing that really stood out or targeted their strong points
In and of itself this is a good video but in and of itself it is in and of itself.
I think virtue chance is capped at 75% or 70? maybe 67. either way lol
wait a second. did he just say he barely uses the move skill on occultist? he does know that's a goddamned beautiful corpse clear + move + low damage on the back 3 ranks, right?
I don´t understand Red Hook regarding the trinkets in DD; most of them are uttery useless; and then the set items are like this; most of them apply useless bonuses which do nothing for the character and give them huge downsides
8:35 i know i'm a few years late but i don't care, i'd like to point out that this boosts her move *chance* and not her move *resist* so that she can use bolas more effectively.
Virtue chance got changed. It's now capped at 95%
The most interesting thing about these items is the story behind them.
I really hate in games when the devs seem to not know what their characters are good for
I'd love one on ancestral trinkets
Really didn't get the Leper hate, to me and my runs Lepers are being working wonderfully. Maybe you are building him wrong??
He basically just plays low light. So he Ignores everything thats a highlight strat. Leper is terrible for low light and awesome in High light.
See where I'm getting at?
Now I understand why items, and several heroes are bad compared to others in ng+ and no light. Atributes are granted by lore, not balance. As example i bring one of Leper items - Last Will and Testament: It gives -10% death blow resist and it is fairly logic, that having testament makes you less willing to live. Highwayman's Shameful Locket give him more stress and according to his lore comic, he killed mother with son by accident.
there's like 5 different ways that he usually loses characters
Filthy! you should make a compilation video of the most frustrating deaths and your reactions lol! Like then explain how you got railed by RNG. unless you already have done it i'd like to watch it. I wonder if you stress like i do when you get a wipe of 4 players holding good trinkets.
I feel like I'm one of the few who uses Graverobber's blight, it seems.
Though even then, the CC item for it looks like a shittier ladle.
Most of the items had changed and now are not terrible, but mostly not great either for the difficult to get them.
Surprised no one yelled yet that the Plague Doctor is a woman with you calling her a "him".
31:30 virtue chance is capped at 95%
Nowadays the shackles give 20% dmg and 8% crit. It no loger has -2 speed. I use the in every abomination, i thing they are pretty powerful.
I subscribed as i love your vids but I have a single question.You shit on +dodge as its useless on hard mode at no light and you also shit on -dodge because its minus dodge, i understand that to a degree but why do you shit on -dodge if its so useless on the scenarios of "Darkest Dungeon"(Bloodmoon at no light" why even mention the -Dodge?.Great guide and i really enjoy your content but its something i noticed.
For me, the problem with this video is that you can't always have good items like sun ring or moon ring since you tend to get them from the lvl 3 quests and since it is very possible to get crimson court items early on, you should not say that they are terrible in comparison to the best items in the game because when you don't have those items suddenly some items like the Crime Lords' Molars become great.
Bartosz Kabała well, his guide videos are aiming at tackling endgame content with the items, and you get like a total of 2 CC items or something like that from the first CC mission you run with the croc (after that it's all level 3 and up and you should have sun/moon rings by then). Honestly what you bring to apprentice level dungeons doesn't really matter that much anyway most of the time, even on higher difficulty runs.
Not all of them are compared to the sun ring anyway, some like the shard of glass compare to items considerably easier to get. So you have to get one of the good ones with the apprentice level to get that power boost early.
I did get sharpened letter opener as my first one on my first CC run and put that to good use (still do whenever I'm using a GR), so it happens sometimes of course.
The criticisms are so sound (and arguably obvious) in light of the mechanics one has to wonder what they were hoping to achieve.
If you want players to care, especially when it's not a given you'll get a complete set on a play through, it stands to reason the set must at least be as good as any alternative.
If we accept that logic then it seems to me they got it backwards.
How about making each individual trinket comparable with available alternatives but put the really juicy benefits on the set bonus? What's more, make those bonuses applicable regardless of how you want to play the class rather than 'forcing' a certain flavour to the class, a flavour that might well be less than ideal as is currently implemented.
The result would be you'd ALWAYS want the set, plus you get replayability through seeing what a class you might otherwise view as weak/meh is like with some significant bonuses regardless of how you choose to skill them.
Given all that, I wonder what their concern was?
As things stand, however, I think you rather hilariously highlighted how apparently contradictory they are (bonuses on skills almost never used with a penalty that matters all the time, for example), often worse than other options if not downright bad by any standard.
Weird.
Untill I saw this I thought those trinkets needed the character to have the Crimson Curse to get the secondary effect.
There are trinkets like that. "+stats if has Crimsom Curse".