This MGSV & METAL GEAR ('87) Secret Is Mind-blowing
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- Опубликовано: 14 апр 2024
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Though it's been nearly a decade since METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN, there are still many mysteries and secrets left (it seems!) Join Jorin Lee of Futurasound Productions as we delve into an oft-overlooked subject: how MGSV and the original METAL GEAR (MSX, 1987), relate. By the end, we'll cover an amazing, yet totally secret, design experiment that Kojima, by putting MGSV & MG '87 in closer conversation than it seemed, had in the making for almost thirty years.
NOTE: This one section from MG2, when I watched it back, seemed a little long actually, so I removed it last minute just in the name of respecting your time. If there's still a long chunk of BB & Snake talking, it's just still processing. Oh, and I was still adjusting to a new ver of Final Cut Pro, so apologies for the occasional, super minor audio overlap caused by the system automatically whenever two audio files are close enough together. Thanks for your patience, Boss! 
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fucking thumbnail rules
So the big secret was that Metal Gear games follow a similar formula and tropes?
Huh. My interpretation is that the identities of the two men who became Big Boss were completely erased and subsumed by the meme, to the point where the two men embraced it completely. They have abandoned themselves to the meme of Big Boss to the point where their own respective scenes and genes of their origins are irrelevant; they're the same person.
Good analysis
Kinda struggling to see what you're getting at with some points here. Also I'm pretty sure Venom in MG1 wasn't a vector for anything. It was never the plan for Snake to get as far as he did and destroy Metal Gear TX-88. Saying that Venom was purposefully serving a role similar to the Boss where he knew he was going to die is a misunderstanding of the first game.
Fully agree. I’m saying the whole venom being mad for being turned into big boss
And yet it's made pretty clear in The Phantom Pain that roles, and other types of "memes" such as revenge, can be transmitted, as if they were poison or disease (i.e. Mark Twain's quote at the beginning of MGSV's E3 2014 trailer). By becoming Big Boss, Naked Snake inherited the role of deciever/manipulator that The Boss (and the CIA's director) abused him with. This leads to him manipulating Venom Snake, the same way he got manipulated during Snake Eater. Then as Venom Snake inherited Big Boss's role (or venom), he too did the same to Solid Snake.
I might add this fits Skull Face's vision of the world pretty well, of one the system being "infected", and of a chain of retaliation.
I've always thought that in the first Metal Gear game, the big boss we talked to is not supposed to be the big boss that we kill at the end, Given what we learned in Metal Gear Solid 5
The Big Boss we talk to is the Foxhound CO throughout the game to at least the part when we switch frequencies.
Most of the people in the comments are missing the point.
Other than the simulation/preparing the next gen to take over, OG Big Boss needed a doubleganger to through off The Patriots of his tail. You see, The Patriots sent in Solid Snake to kill 1987 Big Boss thinking it was THE BIG BOSS.
The author of the video is trying to demonstrate how Kojima in 87, walked you though the shoes of Solid Snake, and in 2015, made you walk in the shoes of 1987 Big Boss to understand where did he come from and why he turned into the villain you fought in 1987.
I see your point. But wasn't it Zero who created Venom Snake in the end? How do you explain the Patriots not knowing about him then? The only explanation would be, that Zero knew beforehand that the AIs he was building would some day see Big Boss as an enemy (Zero himself didn't) and therefore kept that information about the phantom intentionally hidden.
@@MovieMaker1302 Zero had already lost control of Cipher by the events of TPP, or at least a part of it, to Skull Face (and also to the AIs, to some extent).
@@A-B101 Where do you take that information from? Skull face wanted to use the vocal parasites to wipe out the english language so that the system would lose it's grip on humanity. I never heard of the fact that skull face actually took over the system.
Yeah I'll be honest, this video was extremely easy to follow and I really don't understand why so many comments are being so mean.
A lot of people say that the Metal Gear games have next to nothing in common with the Solid games, that they aren't necessary to play through- so long as you watch/read the story. This video demonstrates how that notion is categorically false, and that with added context, the original MSX games have just as much player expression as the later games in the series.
Having recently watched people who have never played a game before the n64 try to play through the MSX games, I think I can understand why this video may not have landed for Jorin's, likely, somewhat young audience. Putting the pieces together for oneself is the name of the game in MG1 and MG2, which is really only true of MGSV if you look at the rest of the series. If MGSV were half as much of an open-and-shut case as many naysayers like to insinuate, would we really be here talking about it still?
This ambiguity, too, is laden throughout MG1. But hey, if you look up a walkthrough (the way most people recommend you get through the game nowadays) then there's absolutely no thought or introspection needed! Thus, MG1 and MGSV will never be connected in the minds of those who do not wish to dive deeper into the well that has been placed in front of them.
*someone tries to open bathroom door while I'm shitting
"THERE'S ONLY ROOM ENOUGH FOR ONE BIG BOSS"
the other asks
why are we here? only to suffer?
"i am you, and you are me"
"let's make this the best 10 minutes of our lives, Jack."
Those NES sound effects are bringing me back
Maybe this video could have worked if it compared story tropes and gameplay design between the first and last games of the series, how they evolved from one to the other
Thats what I thought he was GONNA do.
New editing feels different I liked the old one a lot more
Just finished Metal Gear for the first time yesterday thanks to this video. I played it 9 years ago (lol) for about 20 minutes before dropping it. Glad I revisited it, I found it really fun! Although I do have to admit the part where you have to call Jennifer’s frequency specifically outside of the room with the rocket launcher was confusing, I had called her in a different room as a rank 4 but she didn’t respond. Other than that the game was really well designed. Looking forward to playing the sequel! Thanks Boss!
When are we getting the rest of secrets of the cut scenes ?
Makes sense and the way the entire storyline of Metal Gear is a perfect blend of action, betrayal, and redemption. Love the franchise and hopefully it get turns into an anime series ranging from Snake Eater to Guns of the Patriots.
Unreal, you’ve done it again Futurasound. Incredible vid, keep ‘em comin 🫡
Boss, Get down! That's an enemy gunship.
So basically, several major game mechanics from the original game were carried on through the rest of the series. Mind blowing.
I enjoy every video you make :)
"Ketchup went hill, huh?" - Giant Chief
Well said
I just wish we had gotten that MGSV TPP Chapter 3 to properly explore and expand upon on concepts, themes and also to wrap up the story nicely.
I hope Kojima Productions gets the MGS IP. It'd be amazing if they could make Capter 3 and/or remake Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 into a single huge game.
Don't worry about Venom Snake..he is in his dog days now Boss.
Awesome as always my dear comrade
I realised that venom snake runs faster in TPP than big boss in ground zeroes because he zips around in the final fight in the msx game while big boss himself slow during his boss fight in MG 2
Is this even true? I didn't notice any differences in running speed between BB in GZ and Venom in TPP
@@webtalks184 replay the games, big boss feels more heftier while venom snake runs like he's in the olympics. Theyre 2 different people anyways
@@ilikepigeons6101 That's because you can upgrade your mobility as the game goes on. Pretty sure at the start of the game Venom is just as fast as Big Boss in GZ. Still something to think about I guess.
@@pluckee id check that but my ps4 died of tech aids so oof I'll take your word for it
yeah he got that arm upgraded alright
Ok can anyone explain why on RUclips I hear venom hates big boss for everything but I see other people telling me he doesn’t when I look at the scene I feel like it’s one of those things that’s left to interpretation because the twist you know it’s how YOU feel the way I’ve taken it personally but like EVERY RUclips video says venom is mad/hates BB
He doesn’t. He has completely accepted his role as Big Boss.
He was fighting for Outer Heaven and whatever the real Big Boss was telling him to do.
I've never heard anyone say Venom hates big oss. It's Kaz that ends up hating Big Boss, his former comrade. Though Kaz betrayed Big Boss in Peace Walker, and potentially in MGV too.
Venom is resentful, for like 2 fuckin seconds until he hears "ok chief, now you're Big Boss" n he just stops givin a shit completely. Plus, Outer Heaven was so strong a goal, msf soldiers tried to do it without him, against him. Outer Heaven became stronger than Big Boss to many of the soldiers, like Venom. Regardless of what happened to him, what he did, or must do, it's ALL for Outer Heaven.
I don't think Venom hates Big Boss. He served him before he became his phantom and was probably one of his most loyal followers. I guess that was one of the reasons he was chosen for that job. He believed in his Bosses mission and was ready to sacrifice everything for him...even his own identity.
The way he threw himself in front of Big Boss as that Helicopter went down, tells the tale imo.
As you said, it's "up to you". The way you decided "to roleplay" the title that has been given to you is the only truth.
Someone might have hated John for what he agreed to do, someone else might be glad.
Each one of us, individually, can choose.
Sadly many content creators miss to understand that, and just assume that Venom Snake "hates" John, or that he "accepted his role", as absolute truths;
but there is no absolute truth, your perception is the only truth, and changes for any of us. That is the greatness of TPP.
Are you saying there's a metal gear game before MGS?
Great video, Boss.
At some point, it would be cool if you could do a serious analysis on Big Boss' monologue at the end of the Nuclear Disarmament cutscene. It seems fairly straightforward at first, but the more you think about it, the more questions it raises. Which Big Boss is talking? Which "boss" are they talking to - The Boss, as she said those words to Naked Snake, or Naked Snake, who may have conferred those words to Venom some time after the wearing off of the hypnotherapy. Depending on the answers, it fundamentally changes both characters. Regardless of who it is - it possibly gives a whole new motive for his actions in Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland. It seems (to me) that it really ought to be considered, especially as the speach is almost wistfull, dreaming of nuclear disarmament, as opposed to the previous cutscene that celebrates it (as obviously it never occured in our world and in the world of metal gear).
There's a small problem with Venom being the Big Boss from MG 1995, which i don't see a lot of people talk about.
Big Boss in outer heaven is a simple soldier with a relatively small army that dies from a few rockets.
Big Boss in zanzibar land(despite zanzibar's possible connections with tselinoyarsk and how iconic it would be for Naked to build his nation there, years after op Snake Eater) on the other hand is heavily implied to be ATLEAST a cyborg, has a whole nation of people which were taken from all around the globe, and has a history of managing child soldiers.
I don't know about Kojima, but to me, the latter seems more fitting for Venom, rather for actual Boss, who dare I remind you - was rebuilding his base IN THE SHADOWS the whole time. I don't think he would be able to do much AND stay in the shadow of his body double.
Yes, the fact that Kaz would turn against Venom is weird, but considering that Kazuhira's main target - Naked, was eliminated in the previous game, it is no doubt that he COULD rat out Venom and turn against him. Keep in mind that in terms of loyalty this guy is no better than Huey.
My take on the boss battles on the MG'87:
The "Twins": Two Armored Skull's (metallic archaea)
Machine Gun Kid: One of the Child soldiers rescued by Venom Snake
Shotgunner: A S+++ former mother base soldier
Helicopter: battle against Pequod
Autonomous Tank in the narrow corridor: Battle Gear, now fully functional
Holy shit. Are you telling me Metal Gear 87 was a Metal Gear game? stop the presses
I personally think that the outer heaven uprising happened is due to big boss and venom finding out about solidus and having a clone as a president and the design of arsenal gear and both big bosses wanted to fight against it and the nanomachine concept because in mgs4 the nanomachies take away.peoples free will and restrict individuality relizing what it all could happen hence why outerheaven and xanzibar uprisings happened
I mean, for starters, MG1 is quite relevant to MGS1, the events of the first two games are referenced quite a bit for a couple of games that were barely available in the west outside of the bastardized version of the first game on NES.
Grey Fox, Big Boss, Master Miller, and Roy Campbell are all significant characters in MGS1 who were in the predecessor titles. I'd argue even the gameplay of MGS1 was a 2D to 3D transition of the mechanics and level structure of the first two games. They are more closely tied together than you might at first suspect.
I would argue MG1 and MGS1 have way more in common than MG1 and MGSV. I would say MG1, MG2, and MGS1 (and by extension MGS2) were all iterations on the same core idea, and were essentially the same core game, the Tactical Espionage Action game.
MGSV is the culmination of it's own chain, the Tactical Espionage Operations game, which is Portable Ops, Peace Walker, Ground Zeroes, Phantom Pain. All of them iterate on a different gameplay loop from the others, with their own self contained cast of characters (though a few are shared, they are in a different context than they are in the main Solid series)
Any similarities between the first and last games in the series are likely just a result of Kojima's personal values and the greater motif of the series.
There is an amusing similarity between the last games in each chain though, where in the final TEA and in the final TEO game, you play as someone who on a psychological level has been fashioned into a facsimile of their era's respective Snake.
Always good to see a new upload from you. Can’t wait to get into it !
This video is weirdly messy. I couldn't really follow, to be honest
I liked the video’s take. This man has transcended the bounds of what it means to be an MGS fan. He IS an MGS himself.
@gony_kun that's cringe and stupid; the video isn't good.
@@Snakeskin94 wooooow that’s really rude.
I thought it was just the sleep deprivation but yeah, I'm not sure what he's trying to say.
@@wasdwazdI was kinda able to follow, it’s just one of the weirdest little areas of mgs lore in the first place and putting it into words is not gonna be easy at all
This script was severely padded for run time and it shows.
This isn't mind blowing, this feels slightly incoherent. Just random stretched connections.
Man, theres always another way to look at these games. I never noticed how literal that line from ocelot is about saving snake, and the point about the player accepting the role as the next villian set to be taken out in the game is super clever.
Who actually trained Solid Snake with CQC, the real Big Boss, or Venom Snake?
Dude...while watching this i was thinking the same thing! I was like who trained Snake in CQC...did Snake ever find out that the BigBoss he fought in Outer Haven was a body double?
Guess it's up to us individually to decide that, you can have your own interpretation.
Personally I believe both the radio and the training in FoxHound were done by John, while Venom stayed in Outer Heaven all the time (or on the battlefield somewhere else);
in my interpretation, John leaves the USA during the happening of Mission Inteduer N313, to make his "death" appear plausible, to secretly retire into Zanzibar Land (maybe with Ocelot help to secretly get out of the USA).
@@ButtaMilkBiscuitsGamingBig Boss was in command of Foxhound, V was in command of Outer Heaven
It’s not directly said that “x trained him” but I’m almost positive it was the real big boss
Back before venom was a thing, the whole point of the body double was that he (venom) would be controlling outer heaven while the real BB went back to America/foxhound. While solid was in foxhound, he was trained by BB, so that’s probably where he learned CQC. It’s very heavily implied in mgs that solid had a relationship with the real BB. If he learned most of his skills from venom, or worse never met the actual BB until Zanzibar, the connections in mgs 1&4 would make less sense
I hate that Naked Snake went back to work for the Americans, but I agree with the above interpretation. Naked Snake seems to be the one who most likely trained Solid in CQC.
I fear this channel has reached terminal velocity, has it jumped the shark?
What exactly is the secret?
I would've really enjoyed a dua storiedl Les Enfants Terribles Game of the two Snakes (or 3 including Solidus somehow) sitting between V and '87, maybe a story arc of what makes Liquid Liquid but I suppose that couldnt happen after his depiction in V
It would work as a spin-off.
Has Konami ever reached out to you? A good few years back a friend of mine made a video pitching mgs6. Nit a big channel or a lot of views but he had a Konami team message thanking him for the video, being a fan etc.
Here for comments.
another great video 👏 👏
I always found your content to be the most important one in regard of MGS as a whole, but this is a bit "weird", it doesn't really says much to me in its entirety. Still there are good points, and some neat details, but still I felt it should have been more "precise" in regard of its structure and messages.
Anyway, I hope to see the continuation of "Secrets in MGSV Cutscene" one day, that was an essential analysis imho.
Funny how all Metal gear games have elements from all other Metal Gear games in them.
hi
How quickly the people turn to vitriol smh. Hes clearly working on his format and trying new things
this is how V is the missing link. as advertised. V does this to every MGS game
They played us like a damn fiddle
Super bunny hop has a great video about this
Sanek
Wow, I actually got this one immediately. :D
compared to your older videos this feels ai generated, all the connections are flimsy and it comes across like you are writing a book report for elementary school.
His quality is so sporadic now. Its a shame, his work he was doing 2-4 years ago was stellar, now, unless it's about Metal Gear Solid 5 itself, everything just feels rushed.
"feels ai generated"
What does that even mean?
I'm pretty sure that's the case, how it continuously repeats the same points with different wording for the sake of word count is a common quirks of AI. If it was done by an actual human being they would usually mask the padding by adding additional info or a quick fact.
Also audio "glitch" at 14:17 is very sus
you're living in a simulation.....the MGF simulation.....
also called the metal gear fans simulation....
Oh my god so dumb. This happens to every youtuber and it's ridiculous stupid. "Yiu were better x years ago" jesus christ got watch some anime or some shit you goof.
This was definitely made in chatgpt
Stimulants are a hell of a drug.
I've enjoyed your previous videos a lot, but this seems like 15 mins of waffle. I admit that may be influenced by the fact that my first MG exposure was MGS on the PSX, so some of the back story has always been pretty alien to me, but I usually manage to muddle through with enough guidance.
One day I'll set up an emulator and play the whole thing from start to finish, and let's be honest it probably still won't make any more sense to me but at least I'll have some fun.
Just to be, solid, Venom was leading Solid Snake to himself right? Not OG Big Boss leading Snake to Venom?
Edit: ok so it was all Venom.
"Metal Gear Solid V.
MGS 5"
This man is a fuckin MENACE! Lol
The real answer is we don't really know.
@A-B101 oh gosh.... really? Hell
Is skull face and venom snake the same person?
Yes
Not your best video friend
Dude I love your stuff. But the title feels like a misrepresentation of video. Although that being said I’m not entirely sure I understood this video. Isn’t it just part of the metal gear formula that most games in the series hit the same beats? Sort of a Star Wars “poetry it rhymes”. Like MGS1 was a spiritual remaster of MG. And two was a copy and subversion of one so on and so fourth. If this is the price of weekly releases I think I’d prefer the more sporadic schedule.
Metal Gear (Alpha)
Metal Gear Solid 3 (Zero)
Metal Gear Solid 4 (Omega)
Metal Gear Solid V (Zeta) Cause it doesn't exist.
Classic futurasound clickbait
You are so awesome 👏 thank you for your contribution to our expanding knowledge of the game and geopolitical reality with a touch of history
Bot.
Either Futura made a huge fucking mistake calling MGSV, MGS5 or he realized how fucking stupid calling MGS5, MGSV always was
Thank you for doing this episode.
Speaking of how this game series loves to deceive, i present to you this theory.
Venom snake is not an unknown introduced snake. Venom snake is solidus who, after remembering who he really is after the event of MGS 5 proceeds to the events of operation n313 and upon realizing he was then betrayed by the real big boss reverts back to his birth name before he became a medic George Sears.
In this theory this also means eli is not liquid, eli is in fact raiden. Part of the events of MGS5 are the ones talked about between solidus and raiden in mgs2.
I have other similarities but my favorite link is eli is known as white mamba (snake)... and raiden was known as white devil (snake used as symbolism for devil). Lets not forget that snake was also raidens code name until the events of mgs2.
Fascinating!
ive thought about this too, and my thought was that the bionic arm and shrapnel horn were a pretty big obstacle for this theory, but i guess in world where limb transplants and nanomachines become commonplace anything is possible?
Raidens age is unknown...
Liquid and solid are established correct (and affected by rapid aging).. and are younger than 35 during the original metal gear solid (minimum age to be president) solidus CANT be the younger brother of liquid or solid... that would disqualify him from the presidency...
So before you try and gate keep maybe you should learn something... now go back to your crib... grown ups are talking.
@chandllerburse737 thats assuming that the game actually takes place in 1984, even though the contrary is heavily implied
I like your videos man but in this you sound kinda drunk
sort of a nice video
Clickbait.
Did an AI write this? This sucks
"It's like poetry, they rhyme" - George Lucas
Dudes losing it.
Don't like phantom pain as a game very boring gameplay and not good stealth mechanics worst in the series for me but always love the story of it and analyzing of it