Seems to me that tag team pokemon were designed solely to prepare for the arrival of VMAXs. They needed a way to power creep into 300+ hp behemoths without it being so sudden.
Even then, they still accelerated the power creep of the game faster than it probably should have been, considering that while tag teams were still legal in standard they arguably remained more dominant because although Vmaxs had more HP, you needed to evolve up into them but didn't have to worry about this with tag teams. Because of this, in my eyes, it seems like the opposite of what you said was true in that Vmaxs needed to be as big and powerful as they are in order to keep the pace with what is arguably the most broken mechanic ever printed, and I think it says a lot about how strong they are given that they are becoming dominant in expanded as well, especially with ADP having access to double dragon energy to more easily use it's GX attack on the first turn of the game
VMAXs were designed to counter the Tag Team mechanic. Tag Team Pokemon, especially Mewtwo & Mew/ADP/PikaRom, dominated until they rotated, never truly being countered by VMAX with the exception of Rapid Strike Urshifu VMAX; Urshi dominated the format at the end of the tag team lifecycle, still taking some Ls to the big three.
Every time I see ADP in expanded, I roll my eyes so much they might get stuck. The entire GX tag team was such a bad direction. Very glad we are heading back to the older ex mechanic. After we get rid of VSTAR and VMAX in a future rotation, I hope power levels reset to something sustainable.
You gotta remember people who actually play the game are only like a 3rd of people who buy pokemon products. Seeing 2 of your favorite pokemon on the same card was so cool
@@MidwestBoom you gotta remember that the Pokémon TCG is first and foremost a trading card GAME, so having something so unbalanced just really sucked for a while
When ADP released, I had been playing Yugioh for close to a decade at that point and thought I could stomach any kind of powercreep. After playing against it for a month, in both Standard and Expanded, I realized that I was wrong. ADP is the kind of card they should use in game design classes as an example of what NOT to do.
As someone who hasn't played Pokemon TCG in about a decade, I'm really sad about ADP being such a power house. On the one hand, it's cool that the team-up card of the Sinnoh Legendaries is strong. But on the other, I wish it didn't tear up an entire metagame and become so hated... why couldn't it just be a silly and situational card 😢
What you're noticing is almost definitely the differences in balance standards. YuGiOh has been solidly borked for ~7 years now, to the point it's more luck-based puzzle than TCG. If your deck engine doesn't manage a turn 1 win, your opponent's more likely will. With Pokemon, the game is practically balanced on the tip of a ballpoint pen, which it regularly falls off of. State alters like ADP are usually the result of executive meddling, high relative cost-power ratio cards like Base 1 Charizard, Legendary Battle Lugia EX, Zacian V, and Lugia VStar aren't intentional, they usually get an explicit counter-card and/or counter combo and a more meta-fit replacement soon after. Engines like Leipard V Swap are typically spot banned in tournaments. But when it breaks, it takes until at least the next set release to be fixed again. Leipard V Swap is obscure, but it's a small-league ruiner that rips up anyone that doesn't already have a V with 230HP+ to tank getting struck with Shadow Rippee twice, while the 230HP+ charges up to deal 190 in 1 turn without discharging, so the Leipards don't cycle out and fully heal instead of being KO'd. No V could pull off on Leipard V's release.
I was playing Blacephalon GX in standard at the time this came out, the power creep was definitely felt when this monstrosity could take 3 prize cards from a fragile 180 HP lolipop
TPC designing ADP: you know this cool and complex mechanic (GX attack) that rewards player for knowing when to use it for early advantage, when to hold it for late game scenarios and when to use it with a different pokemon? What if the mascot of the last main set throws all that out of the window and instead tries to turbo out the same gx attack as soon as possible? TPC designing Lugia: you know this cool and complex mechanic (Vstar power) that rewards players for knowing when to use it for early advantage, when to hold it for late game scenarios and when to use it with a different pokemon? What if the mascot of the last main set throws all that out of the window and instead tries to turbo out the same Vstar power as soon as possible?
@@papabroly8000 Hot take, They knew exactly what they were doing. All of the good cards in Lugia are rotating. Amazing Pokemon all from year 1 SwSh (Regulation mark D) The Aurora Energy D Block POWERFUL ENERGY is from Rebel Clash which is rotating with the other D cards. The other special energies that provide typed energy? D Block Capture Energy? D also Evolution Incense that lets you find Archeops easily? Also rotating! Quick Ball? Replaced with Nest Ball which doesn't trigger from hand effects as it gets pulled from the deck! Even the Rainbow-Ish Energy coming out in Triple Beat (Luminous Energy) is just a Multi-Energy reprint. (Provides one of any energy but only 1 at a time as long as there are no Special Energy attached.) Look it sucks that Lugia kinda trashed the last 5 months of the meta. But Lugia is going to be stuck being a 200-220 damage beat stick that discards stadiums, or slave to accelerating RS or SS energies to Rapid and Single strike Pokemon. Lugia is gonna be tier 2 at best in Scarlet in Violet.
My favourite special gimmick cards were the Legends from HGSS; two-card mons that were overwhelmingly powerful but needed a lot of either time or resource invested to get both parts out; otherwise you'd be bricked if you have only one of the two parts. That sort of risk-reward element is missing with basic EX/GX/V mons since their nature as a single-card basic means it's too easy to summon a massive beatstick.
The new EX pokemon coming out are more risk reward because a lot of em are evolution cards now like older ones and V-Unions which take 4 cards do exist
IMO tag team should actually require you to have the cards that make up the tag team. For example Celebi & Venusaur tag team should require you to have a celebi and a venusaur (whether in your hand, bench, or active slot) and then discard those cards in order to play the tag team to your bench.
@@philbuttler3427 no, I just want them to not be able to be played turn 1 at no cost when they're stronger than the vast majority of basics. I do realize that this MAY be a bit too much to ask you to effectively find 3 cards, but maybe it could just be have one of the two cards, or maybe you get to search your deck for one of them as a tag team card effect. I'm probably just nostalgic for when "basic" actually meant a basic pokemon and not EXes and tag teams and all these other insane cards that are absolutely not a basic card. But still.
@@TLTheLegendas a Yu-Gi-Oh player that sounds similar to fusion summoning and I have to agree with that implementation as it creates a level of balance and also makes you think how you want to use your resources
I think the biggest issue with this is it literally only takes _two_ energy. I remember when a single 130 power attack (with no extra effects) costed 4. Now you just need 2 to completely alter the way the game is played.
Excellent video. As someone who started competitive at the beginning of SWSH, it's been nice seeing the TCG recover and getting to play what most people won't recall to as the worst meta ever.
Nice breakdown! I quit playing PTCGO when Tag Teams were introduced and didn't return until SwSh when they were beginning to phase out. Seems like all TCGs push a bit too hard sometimes and then course-correct later.
Yeah, I took a break during the swsh first block cause the amount of tube fire and adp/zacian decks made the game unenjoyable. I didn't enjoy playing either archetype, and they were strong enough that they dominated both the expanded and standard formats on ptcgo and killed deck variation entirely for several months. Still one of the worst decisions tpci has ever made in regards to the tcg.
Almost none of them course correct besides pokemon and magic because they cycle crap out. Then you have games like Vanguard that try and do a full reboot 4 times and die completely from it. Yugioh is solely living off of nostalgia and what is essentially a stock market of cards, the game has been horribly unbalanced since elemental dragons and spellbooks. Arguably when inzektors and wind ups were tier 0
I feel like from the break on rotation to when tag teams released was the healthiest the game has been in a long time. While GX's were skipped over in this video they were really good for the game. I feel like for a brief year the tcg was able to recapture the feel of the gen 3 era.
5:40 as a yugioh player this sentence actually made me laugh out loud. Good vid. Ive only played pokemon TCG for about 6 hours but i enjoyed the video. 😊
if we compare Miraidon with Zacian V, we will notice the power creep from ADP not quite recovering game needs a great reset like the old Gen 2 e-cards to wipe 300hp out of existence, though what they seem to be trying to do now is to redefine the power ceiling with 300hp stage 2 2-prizers whatever they do, please don't print 3-prizers anymore, basic 3-prizers are criminal
KOing mew vmax with my single prize luxray deck is the greatest... ironically enough the only thing i can keep up with is vmax decks, i cant knock out most vstars quick enough with it
I am GOBSMACKED that ADP was prinited, and then Zacian V came along to bring it to astronomical levels! 4 generations apart from one another! I have stated I came into the TCG realm recently and Zacian V (on PTCGLive) is extremely common. Little did I know the history bestowed before it, and how energy acceleration was changed forever through things such as Lugia Archeops, Mew Vmax Genesect... Absolutely incredible work, thank you for everything
Iron Hands EX is saying hi. If it knocks out a pokemon it's bonus effect grants it one extra prize card. And with many 2 prize cards being popular than ever again it will be easy to draw 3 cards prizes. his weakness is it only does 160 and costs 4 energies
@@victorlinares4137 The problem is specifically that Iron Hands has low damage output. It's enough to OHKO single-prize attackers or evolving Basics / Stage 1s, wrecking the Prize trade specifically for the decks that are the slowest and least consistent.
@grafzeppelin4069 its easy to compensate tho. Either with regieliki vmax or iron crowns. Ive actually seen dusknoir bc a 1 for 3 prize card trade is crazy
I remember that time well! playing the standard format was hell for any casual player and worse than that at this time there was almost no way to cauterize this sick duo!
I played the tcg for over a decade but s/m tag team completely killed it for me. The most I’ll engage with it nowadays is the occasional booster box as compared to when I’d schedule my weekends around trying to rack up enough points for worlds
I have NEVER played a format that, with the release of 1 card, invalidated 90% of playstyles. It was so toxic playing against i stopped playing pokemon tcg as a whole until I saw it rotated out.
I have left a few comments today, I feel as though I am learning the history of PTCG and many of the reasons why the game is where it is at today. The game is nowhere near as convoluted as Yu-Gi-Oh current formats which I also didn't play for decades, but the multiple prize card rules took a while to wrap my head around. Thank you for this informative content Celio, your scripts and editing ae outstanding! I can't remember the last time I watched youtube videos in full screen xD
As someone that has not really paid any attention to the Tag Team meta, the Altered Creation attack blew my mind. I didn't know there were any attacks that permanently altered the state of the game like that.
I haven't played Pokémon in years and just had a sudden curiosity where it was at now days. This was the perfect video to answer my question, thank you.
I enjoy these videos a lot and they kinda make me wanna pick up my old cards and play again... but then I remember set rotation is a thing and my cards are nothing more than collectables :/
Tag Teams are amazing on paper. Two Pokémon on one card, plus it’s a good excuse to bring in alternate forms like megas without needing evolution. However, 3 prizes was too much, and ADP was just a plague. Personally I want tag-teams back, but as two prize Pokémon, and have the game explicitly treat them like two separate Pokémon on one card. Maybe even dual type it? For example with Melmetal and Lucario, give it double iron bash and aura sphere. Act as if the HP value is just one + other. I’m glad they’re going back to evolution for SV, but I hope the 1+1 idea doesn’t die over a few really, really badly designed cards.
I always thought that tag teams were busted, would have been cool and maybe more balanced if basic tag teams had to "evolve" from having each component Pokémon (e.g. dialga, palkia and arceus) in play
Arceus vStar was the one card that truly turned me off. It has so much HP, and it's attacks and abilities are ridiculously overpowered. Tag Team GXs would've been so much cooler if you could only have one of those in your deck. The gimmick being not to spam them, but rather to protect them. Also, I would like to mention how ridiculously high HP stats are getting. I miss the times when 250 was truly monstrous.
Compared to Lugia Vstar... Arceus Vstar is balanced all it takes is one Professor's Research for Lugia Vstar to throw 2 Archeops on the bench and now Lugia Vstar can gain 6 energy in one turn.
as a malamar player at the time there was a single player at every tournament who played this and i could not for the life of me win - it was always the one matchup i couldnt win without luck and felt abysmal to play against, even if my opponent was good and played well, it still felt less like them playing well and more like the sheer power of the card coming through. And then zacian came out as well.
A: The pokemon tcg is power crept as hell man B: it's not that bad A: GOD and his two archangels are literally running around enacting The Book of Revelations
I remember trying to hoard all the ex cards when trading with kids on the bus in elementary school. I was so close to a monopoly but that one kid held out and I couldn't get the last two :(
I remember buying the reshiram and charizard and zekrom and pikachu decks at Walmart and I was so happy because I knew how collectable those particular cards were but at the same time I didn't want to buy them as singles and I also didn't want to waste money paying for booster packs. Those theme decks were SO freaking good, but tbh it didn't even feel like i was playing pokemon tcg anymore. It was like I was playing yugioh all over again where you power speed your plays do that you can dominate in one turn. It wasn't fun. There were no back and forth. And even if there were, the game would end in four or five turns because of how powerful these cards were PLUS you take 3 prize cards if they were knocked out. Knock out two tag team pokemon and you win the game. It speed of the game went way too fast. Don't get me wrong though, it was still cool but gone are the days of old school theme decks where you actually need to evolve a pokemon to stage 2 to make it knock out pokemon.
GX attacks were fun. I remember running sylveon GX for deck controll, with Vikavolt GX for damage spread, Galvantula for "correcting damage values" and Aegislash as an executor by fairy field enabeling the strat. It was such a stupid set. I was down 5 cards, but the entire board was set to just get nuked by aegislash doubeling the damage on every pokemon simultaniously. It was so fun if it worked, but you really had to start with an eevee and an fairy type energy to get your sylveon GX turn 1 no matter what.
Nowadays it is outclassed by Lugia VStar, control decks (doll stall and Plume/Bunnelby control), Regidrago VStar, slower than Palkia Vstar or Tsareena V, and Miraidon ex. 280HP for three prizes is simply too punishing in expanded meta for an effect easily removed by Pokemon Ranger.
As much as ADP Zaician was broken in SWSH, I will say it was a blast and weirdly not too unbalanced in S&M without Zaician or too many other easy acceleration cards for steel or water. Plus using the GX attack left you vulnerable and depending on positioning, that could be your opponent taking 3 prizes with all you getting is the +30dmg +1 Prize. (I got 1 or 2 shot by Balcephalon gx way too much). I will admit I'm a tad biased as I first got hooked at a Cosmic Eclipse pre-release where I pulled it in my box, and had to somehow work in steel energy in a water/(electric I think? Not steel or mono water) evo pack. Best moment was facing down another new ttgx and maneuvering my bench mons to whittle it down, getting the ADP's gx attack off right before going down with a pokemon ready to go on the bench that thanks to the +30dmg could now take the knock out. To which my opponent excitedly stated they only need 1 more knock out for the win (Pre-releases are 40 card decks with 4 prizes, 4-3=1), to which I said "same here!" Promoted a Primarina and took the Ko (4-(3+1)=4). Needless to say I was the talk around the shop that day.
ADP was super farmable on the PTCGO ladder with inteleon vmax I could just spam the attack that bounces an energy, then once I bounce it's energy twice I knock it out with the second attack and then do 60 on the bench to zacian so I could knock it out. It only worked going first, but it was still hilarious to pull off.
I truly despised adp... repeating dull metas are one thing, but them being made of just one boring broken deck and it lasted for like 3 expansions so that made it even worse. And even then the deck was still good
Honestly I think that expanded should be cut off at Lost Thunder, before the Tag Teams broke everything. TPCI/Creatures Inc. would never do that, but it would basically save expanded. Sun and Moon era cards had some power creep to them, but at least in this case the X&Y cards would be playable. Just think cutting Tag Teams-VStars off would be the best play.
the tag-team cards were around when i decided to quit the tcg. i was suuuper into it from 2012 to 2019, and the tag-team cards were just way too much for casual players to keep up with. i quit in my sophomore year of high school, and while i did have a job, i didnt spend a ton of money on the tcg. i got packs here and there, but nothing major. most of the time i would trade to upgrade my decks, and while it definitely took a while and took a lot of effort, it was really enjoyable for me. but the tag-teams absolutely demolished any deck i built with their monstrous health and attacks, and i just could not keep up. the cards were in high demand, were crazy expensive, and i just gave up. only cool thing about the Arceus and Dialga and Palkia card is there happened to be 236 cards in that set, and dialga236 has been my username for forever so its a fun coincidence
i dont play pokm card game but others and what i learnd is start of game and infinite auras or extremy powerfull and most of them will become rly strong the moment they get the right support or meta change
I remember a few years ago when I got into the Pokemon TCG online game it was when ADP Zacian was at its height. I made myself one too and started to rank up quickly because of how strong it was. Only to get absolutely outplayed over and over by Pokedoll stall decks, that dont give any price cards on defeat and recycle themselves endlessly
I'll argue, that Plasma Storm 134 Lugia EX, long ago, once had a similar effect. Which was the Overflow ability; if you knock out the opponent's front with Plasma Lugia, you take an additional card. The only restriction was that it costed resources to use it's only expensive attack, Plasma Gale, Overflow was an ability, and Lugia has to generally be up front. I'm only stating this, just to point out that these type of effects have happened before. But the difference was the card and the environment it was put in.
Wow, as someone whose only experience with the tcg is the gameboy game, these cards sound insanely strong. Just so I know, whenever a new series comes out, are you only allowed to use cards from that one?
The biggest issue in the ADP problem at the time in my opinion was Zacian V. It dealt massive damage and had perfect synergy with ADP. Before SSH, people were trying out different Cards with ADP, like Keldeo GX, Zapdos Articuno Moltres GX or Spiritomb. None of that was here when Zacian V hit the scene.
i find the concept of tag team pokemon cool, if a bit risky and extravagant. But ADP is just stupid. As someone who plays MTG, there are reasons why cards that accelerate formats are so valuable (and also banned.)
just looked through my card collection, i have all the cards for this insane setup and i can ruin the tcg for my friends forever, however, i would much rather collect cards than to play with them, so i probably won't
Back in second grade I had an adp but back then none of my friends that collected including me didn’t know rarity, we only new strength so I ended up trading it for a couple random gx’s
I played a lot of expanded during this time period on TCG online. Mostly because making a deck that could compete in that format was impossible. The only good card for dealing with tag teams was Aloan Ninetails with aurora veil. As it prevent all damage and effects from GX Pokemon
Seems to me that tag team pokemon were designed solely to prepare for the arrival of VMAXs. They needed a way to power creep into 300+ hp behemoths without it being so sudden.
Even then, they still accelerated the power creep of the game faster than it probably should have been, considering that while tag teams were still legal in standard they arguably remained more dominant because although Vmaxs had more HP, you needed to evolve up into them but didn't have to worry about this with tag teams. Because of this, in my eyes, it seems like the opposite of what you said was true in that Vmaxs needed to be as big and powerful as they are in order to keep the pace with what is arguably the most broken mechanic ever printed, and I think it says a lot about how strong they are given that they are becoming dominant in expanded as well, especially with ADP having access to double dragon energy to more easily use it's GX attack on the first turn of the game
VMAXs were designed to counter the Tag Team mechanic. Tag Team Pokemon, especially Mewtwo & Mew/ADP/PikaRom, dominated until they rotated, never truly being countered by VMAX with the exception of Rapid Strike Urshifu VMAX; Urshi dominated the format at the end of the tag team lifecycle, still taking some Ls to the big three.
@@matthewkuscienko4616 how long to type
For you to type
@@SLEDGEHAAMMER ye
Every time I see ADP in expanded, I roll my eyes so much they might get stuck. The entire GX tag team was such a bad direction. Very glad we are heading back to the older ex mechanic. After we get rid of VSTAR and VMAX in a future rotation, I hope power levels reset to something sustainable.
The tag team cards should have just evolved from both the listed pokemon or something like that
@@mission4871 now you see, that would have been a good idea :) nah though that actually sounds really cool
You gotta remember people who actually play the game are only like a 3rd of people who buy pokemon products. Seeing 2 of your favorite pokemon on the same card was so cool
@@MidwestBoom That don't mean they had to make the cards overpowered??
@@MidwestBoom you gotta remember that the Pokémon TCG is first and foremost a trading card GAME, so having something so unbalanced just really sucked for a while
When ADP released, I had been playing Yugioh for close to a decade at that point and thought I could stomach any kind of powercreep. After playing against it for a month, in both Standard and Expanded, I realized that I was wrong. ADP is the kind of card they should use in game design classes as an example of what NOT to do.
As a fellow tugioh plsyer I read it and was like this is essentially pokemons version of CED
As someone who hasn't played Pokemon TCG in about a decade, I'm really sad about ADP being such a power house. On the one hand, it's cool that the team-up card of the Sinnoh Legendaries is strong. But on the other, I wish it didn't tear up an entire metagame and become so hated... why couldn't it just be a silly and situational card 😢
What you're noticing is almost definitely the differences in balance standards. YuGiOh has been solidly borked for ~7 years now, to the point it's more luck-based puzzle than TCG. If your deck engine doesn't manage a turn 1 win, your opponent's more likely will.
With Pokemon, the game is practically balanced on the tip of a ballpoint pen, which it regularly falls off of. State alters like ADP are usually the result of executive meddling, high relative cost-power ratio cards like Base 1 Charizard, Legendary Battle Lugia EX, Zacian V, and Lugia VStar aren't intentional, they usually get an explicit counter-card and/or counter combo and a more meta-fit replacement soon after. Engines like Leipard V Swap are typically spot banned in tournaments. But when it breaks, it takes until at least the next set release to be fixed again.
Leipard V Swap is obscure, but it's a small-league ruiner that rips up anyone that doesn't already have a V with 230HP+ to tank getting struck with Shadow Rippee twice, while the 230HP+ charges up to deal 190 in 1 turn without discharging, so the Leipards don't cycle out and fully heal instead of being KO'd. No V could pull off on Leipard V's release.
ADP was why I decided to quit until tag teams rotated. I did not enjoy that format at all
ADP is awesome so fun w lapras v max :)
I was playing Blacephalon GX in standard at the time this came out, the power creep was definitely felt when this monstrosity could take 3 prize cards from a fragile 180 HP lolipop
Even the 1 prize form could do so lol
(I loved baby Blacephalon)
Man 180 used to be massive.
TPC designing ADP: you know this cool and complex mechanic (GX attack) that rewards player for knowing when to use it for early advantage, when to hold it for late game scenarios and when to use it with a different pokemon? What if the mascot of the last main set throws all that out of the window and instead tries to turbo out the same gx attack as soon as possible?
TPC designing Lugia: you know this cool and complex mechanic (Vstar power) that rewards players for knowing when to use it for early advantage, when to hold it for late game scenarios and when to use it with a different pokemon? What if the mascot of the last main set throws all that out of the window and instead tries to turbo out the same Vstar power as soon as possible?
Exactly. They haven’t learned and it’s deeply upsetting
I knew that they would make a totally broken vstar in the last SWSH set. Now I don't even know if what I hate more adp or lugia
@@papabroly8000 Hot take, They knew exactly what they were doing. All of the good cards in Lugia are rotating.
Amazing Pokemon all from year 1 SwSh (Regulation mark D)
The Aurora Energy D Block
POWERFUL ENERGY is from Rebel Clash which is rotating with the other D cards.
The other special energies that provide typed energy? D Block
Capture Energy? D also
Evolution Incense that lets you find Archeops easily? Also rotating!
Quick Ball? Replaced with Nest Ball which doesn't trigger from hand effects as it gets pulled from the deck!
Even the Rainbow-Ish Energy coming out in Triple Beat (Luminous Energy) is just a Multi-Energy reprint. (Provides one of any energy but only 1 at a time as long as there are no Special Energy attached.)
Look it sucks that Lugia kinda trashed the last 5 months of the meta. But Lugia is going to be stuck being a 200-220 damage beat stick that discards stadiums, or slave to accelerating RS or SS energies to Rapid and Single strike Pokemon. Lugia is gonna be tier 2 at best in Scarlet in Violet.
@@bakh554321exactly!!
Arceus Vstar too. And it’s possible that Arceus will see more play after rotation.
My favourite special gimmick cards were the Legends from HGSS; two-card mons that were overwhelmingly powerful but needed a lot of either time or resource invested to get both parts out; otherwise you'd be bricked if you have only one of the two parts. That sort of risk-reward element is missing with basic EX/GX/V mons since their nature as a single-card basic means it's too easy to summon a massive beatstick.
We need more high risk high reward cards tbh.
they are also absolutely gorgeous, some of the best art of any cards ever printed
I remember loving my darkrai/cresselia card.
The new EX pokemon coming out are more risk reward because a lot of em are evolution cards now like older ones and V-Unions which take 4 cards do exist
There’s V-Union cards which kind of do this, but most of them are bad/gimmicks
IMO tag team should actually require you to have the cards that make up the tag team. For example Celebi & Venusaur tag team should require you to have a celebi and a venusaur (whether in your hand, bench, or active slot) and then discard those cards in order to play the tag team to your bench.
So you don't want them to see play
@@philbuttler3427 no, I just want them to not be able to be played turn 1 at no cost when they're stronger than the vast majority of basics. I do realize that this MAY be a bit too much to ask you to effectively find 3 cards, but maybe it could just be have one of the two cards, or maybe you get to search your deck for one of them as a tag team card effect.
I'm probably just nostalgic for when "basic" actually meant a basic pokemon and not EXes and tag teams and all these other insane cards that are absolutely not a basic card. But still.
@@TLTheLegendas a Yu-Gi-Oh player that sounds similar to fusion summoning and I have to agree with that implementation as it creates a level of balance and also makes you think how you want to use your resources
This is like the Exodia card in Yu-Gi-Oh. Powerful and game changing, but you had to assemble him with arms and legs cards
@@DanielKhuu that too
I think the biggest issue with this is it literally only takes _two_ energy. I remember when a single 130 power attack (with no extra effects) costed 4. Now you just need 2 to completely alter the way the game is played.
Excellent video. As someone who started competitive at the beginning of SWSH, it's been nice seeing the TCG recover and getting to play what most people won't recall to as the worst meta ever.
Nice breakdown! I quit playing PTCGO when Tag Teams were introduced and didn't return until SwSh when they were beginning to phase out. Seems like all TCGs push a bit too hard sometimes and then course-correct later.
Yeah, I took a break during the swsh first block cause the amount of tube fire and adp/zacian decks made the game unenjoyable. I didn't enjoy playing either archetype, and they were strong enough that they dominated both the expanded and standard formats on ptcgo and killed deck variation entirely for several months. Still one of the worst decisions tpci has ever made in regards to the tcg.
Almost none of them course correct besides pokemon and magic because they cycle crap out. Then you have games like Vanguard that try and do a full reboot 4 times and die completely from it. Yugioh is solely living off of nostalgia and what is essentially a stock market of cards, the game has been horribly unbalanced since elemental dragons and spellbooks. Arguably when inzektors and wind ups were tier 0
Wait, so you're telling me the god, the creator of space and the creator of time on the one card is broken? UNACCEPTABLE!
I feel like from the break on rotation to when tag teams released was the healthiest the game has been in a long time.
While GX's were skipped over in this video they were really good for the game. I feel like for a brief year the tcg was able to recapture the feel of the gen 3 era.
5:40 as a yugioh player this sentence actually made me laugh out loud. Good vid. Ive only played pokemon TCG for about 6 hours but i enjoyed the video. 😊
if we compare Miraidon with Zacian V, we will notice the power creep from ADP not quite recovering
game needs a great reset like the old Gen 2 e-cards to wipe 300hp out of existence, though what they seem to be trying to do now is to redefine the power ceiling with 300hp stage 2 2-prizers
whatever they do, please don't print 3-prizers anymore, basic 3-prizers are criminal
I prefer to one shot a 240hp 3 prizer than for my opponent to heal a 280hp 2 prize behemoth 2 times
@@laylajs thing is 3 prizers are not 240 anymore, but sure KOing mew vmax for 3 prizes feels neat
@@hikershay11395 I kind of wanted to also show power creep in the last 3-4 years
@@laylajs we just get further and further from playing single prize stage 2 pokemon
KOing mew vmax with my single prize luxray deck is the greatest... ironically enough the only thing i can keep up with is vmax decks, i cant knock out most vstars quick enough with it
I am GOBSMACKED that ADP was prinited, and then Zacian V came along to bring it to astronomical levels! 4 generations apart from one another!
I have stated I came into the TCG realm recently and Zacian V (on PTCGLive) is extremely common. Little did I know the history bestowed before it, and how energy acceleration was changed forever through things such as Lugia Archeops, Mew Vmax Genesect... Absolutely incredible work, thank you for everything
Gotta love how no matter the format zachian is just the most broken pokémon ever made
Iron Hands EX is saying hi. If it knocks out a pokemon it's bonus effect grants it one extra prize card. And with many 2 prize cards being popular than ever again it will be easy to draw 3 cards prizes. his weakness is it only does 160 and costs 4 energies
And his low hp. What iron hands wouldn't do to he a 3 prizer with a fatter hp thank god thats not the case
@@victorlinares4137 The problem is specifically that Iron Hands has low damage output. It's enough to OHKO single-prize attackers or evolving Basics / Stage 1s, wrecking the Prize trade specifically for the decks that are the slowest and least consistent.
@grafzeppelin4069 its easy to compensate tho. Either with regieliki vmax or iron crowns. Ive actually seen dusknoir bc a 1 for 3 prize card trade is crazy
Ah. Zacian is just as good in the tcg as in the main games
I remember that time well! playing the standard format was hell for any casual player and worse than that at this time there was almost no way to cauterize this sick duo!
Ah yes, the GX TagTeam cards.
The cards that killed my passion for the TCG and made me resent big basic pokémon in it.
I am from the Future. We now got Pokemon Tex Mex Ultra V Star+. Those give 6 Prices and have 1500-2000HP and do 500-1000 Damage with 1-2 Energy
And we have a reprint of Roaring Moon ex in that set
I played the tcg for over a decade but s/m tag team completely killed it for me. The most I’ll engage with it nowadays is the occasional booster box as compared to when I’d schedule my weekends around trying to rack up enough points for worlds
Probably didn’t matter, but let’s not forget that it had a weakness to fairy, and then the very next set the type was removed from the TCG
I've never hated a card so much
I love the ADP haters tears ❤️
what about lugia vstar
@@SnoFitzroy lugia is fine.
@@boxkid759 Lugia is horrible
@@derekjeter3654 nope.
I have NEVER played a format that, with the release of 1 card, invalidated 90% of playstyles.
It was so toxic playing against i stopped playing pokemon tcg as a whole until I saw it rotated out.
I have left a few comments today, I feel as though I am learning the history of PTCG and many of the reasons why the game is where it is at today. The game is nowhere near as convoluted as Yu-Gi-Oh current formats which I also didn't play for decades, but the multiple prize card rules took a while to wrap my head around. Thank you for this informative content Celio, your scripts and editing ae outstanding!
I can't remember the last time I watched youtube videos in full screen xD
From a gameplay perspective, probably a bad idea.
From a lore perspective, its the creators of the multiverse. It should be OP.
Would of been hilarious if Acreus V Stars ability was Altered Creation. Take an extra two prize cards 😂 and do 50 more damage.
As a player that played in 2012 and just came back playing, I was surprised that such card existed :o
Profit is probably always going to take precedent over more balanced focus design sadly.
As someone that has not really paid any attention to the Tag Team meta, the Altered Creation attack blew my mind. I didn't know there were any attacks that permanently altered the state of the game like that.
I haven't played Pokémon in years and just had a sudden curiosity where it was at now days. This was the perfect video to answer my question, thank you.
Thanks so much for the video. As a newer player, this definitely gives some perspective as to the history of the game.
I enjoy these videos a lot and they kinda make me wanna pick up my old cards and play again... but then I remember set rotation is a thing and my cards are nothing more than collectables :/
Tag Teams are amazing on paper. Two Pokémon on one card, plus it’s a good excuse to bring in alternate forms like megas without needing evolution. However, 3 prizes was too much, and ADP was just a plague.
Personally I want tag-teams back, but as two prize Pokémon, and have the game explicitly treat them like two separate Pokémon on one card. Maybe even dual type it? For example with Melmetal and Lucario, give it double iron bash and aura sphere. Act as if the HP value is just one + other.
I’m glad they’re going back to evolution for SV, but I hope the 1+1 idea doesn’t die over a few really, really badly designed cards.
I always thought that tag teams were busted, would have been cool and maybe more balanced if basic tag teams had to "evolve" from having each component Pokémon (e.g. dialga, palkia and arceus) in play
Arceus vStar was the one card that truly turned me off. It has so much HP, and it's attacks and abilities are ridiculously overpowered. Tag Team GXs would've been so much cooler if you could only have one of those in your deck. The gimmick being not to spam them, but rather to protect them. Also, I would like to mention how ridiculously high HP stats are getting. I miss the times when 250 was truly monstrous.
Compared to Lugia Vstar... Arceus Vstar is balanced all it takes is one Professor's Research for Lugia Vstar to throw 2 Archeops on the bench and now Lugia Vstar can gain 6 energy in one turn.
as a malamar player at the time there was a single player at every tournament who played this and i could not for the life of me win - it was always the one matchup i couldnt win without luck and felt abysmal to play against, even if my opponent was good and played well, it still felt less like them playing well and more like the sheer power of the card coming through.
And then zacian came out as well.
The lists at the beginning of that meta were ADP food lol
@@CeliosNetwork yh it was insane - especially if you didnt have the money to burn on putting together an adp deck of your own
Ur story telling is unmatched!
I had an X-ball Mewtwo once and terrorized everyone with an energy-heavy deck. Good times.
A: The pokemon tcg is power crept as hell man
B: it's not that bad
A: GOD and his two archangels are literally running around enacting The Book of Revelations
I remember trying to hoard all the ex cards when trading with kids on the bus in elementary school. I was so close to a monopoly but that one kid held out and I couldn't get the last two :(
I remember buying the reshiram and charizard and zekrom and pikachu decks at Walmart and I was so happy because I knew how collectable those particular cards were but at the same time I didn't want to buy them as singles and I also didn't want to waste money paying for booster packs. Those theme decks were SO freaking good, but tbh it didn't even feel like i was playing pokemon tcg anymore. It was like I was playing yugioh all over again where you power speed your plays do that you can dominate in one turn. It wasn't fun. There were no back and forth. And even if there were, the game would end in four or five turns because of how powerful these cards were PLUS you take 3 prize cards if they were knocked out. Knock out two tag team pokemon and you win the game. It speed of the game went way too fast. Don't get me wrong though, it was still cool but gone are the days of old school theme decks where you actually need to evolve a pokemon to stage 2 to make it knock out pokemon.
the tcg pocket is on the state of yugi era,i wont be suprised if they release headache cards someday
ADP is easily my most hated card ever. and I hope it stays that way because I cannot fathom them printing a more obnoxious card
GX attacks were fun. I remember running sylveon GX for deck controll, with Vikavolt GX for damage spread, Galvantula for "correcting damage values" and Aegislash as an executor by fairy field enabeling the strat. It was such a stupid set. I was down 5 cards, but the entire board was set to just get nuked by aegislash doubeling the damage on every pokemon simultaniously. It was so fun if it worked, but you really had to start with an eevee and an fairy type energy to get your sylveon GX turn 1 no matter what.
ADP is insane in expanded bc you can build a water/steel deck with cryogonal to get it ready
Nowadays it is outclassed by Lugia VStar, control decks (doll stall and Plume/Bunnelby control), Regidrago VStar, slower than Palkia Vstar or Tsareena V, and Miraidon ex. 280HP for three prizes is simply too punishing in expanded meta for an effect easily removed by Pokemon Ranger.
@@coolyeh1017 I made it work pretty damn well online when TCGO was a thing. Sure there are probably stronger decks but it still went really hard
Extended is 1000x times better if you just ban rule box cards.
As much as ADP Zaician was broken in SWSH, I will say it was a blast and weirdly not too unbalanced in S&M without Zaician or too many other easy acceleration cards for steel or water. Plus using the GX attack left you vulnerable and depending on positioning, that could be your opponent taking 3 prizes with all you getting is the +30dmg +1 Prize. (I got 1 or 2 shot by Balcephalon gx way too much). I will admit I'm a tad biased as I first got hooked at a Cosmic Eclipse pre-release where I pulled it in my box, and had to somehow work in steel energy in a water/(electric I think? Not steel or mono water) evo pack. Best moment was facing down another new ttgx and maneuvering my bench mons to whittle it down, getting the ADP's gx attack off right before going down with a pokemon ready to go on the bench that thanks to the +30dmg could now take the knock out. To which my opponent excitedly stated they only need 1 more knock out for the win (Pre-releases are 40 card decks with 4 prizes, 4-3=1), to which I said "same here!" Promoted a Primarina and took the Ko (4-(3+1)=4). Needless to say I was the talk around the shop that day.
I stopped following the special card scene around the time of megas and seeing this video hit me like a truck 💀 power creep goes nuts
man every other pokemon media seems so much more interesting than the main series
I loved shitting on ADP with Lucmetal
I don’t play with pokemon cards but I do have the arceus, dialga , and palkia card
Bidoof: Look at what they need to mimic even a *fraction* of my power.
ADP was super farmable on the PTCGO ladder with inteleon vmax I could just spam the attack that bounces an energy, then once I bounce it's energy twice I knock it out with the second attack and then do 60 on the bench to zacian so I could knock it out. It only worked going first, but it was still hilarious to pull off.
Oh God...I had Vietnam flashbacks as soon as I saw that card
I truly despised adp... repeating dull metas are one thing, but them being made of just one boring broken deck and it lasted for like 3 expansions so that made it even worse. And even then the deck was still good
They weren't even TRYING to hide the power creep... This is rediculous!
I have ADP irl in the normal one and full art
I believe 2020 would have been ADP Zacian V format then 2021 eternatus vmax
Honestly I think that expanded should be cut off at Lost Thunder, before the Tag Teams broke everything. TPCI/Creatures Inc. would never do that, but it would basically save expanded. Sun and Moon era cards had some power creep to them, but at least in this case the X&Y cards would be playable. Just think cutting Tag Teams-VStars off would be the best play.
the tag-team cards were around when i decided to quit the tcg. i was suuuper into it from 2012 to 2019, and the tag-team cards were just way too much for casual players to keep up with. i quit in my sophomore year of high school, and while i did have a job, i didnt spend a ton of money on the tcg. i got packs here and there, but nothing major. most of the time i would trade to upgrade my decks, and while it definitely took a while and took a lot of effort, it was really enjoyable for me. but the tag-teams absolutely demolished any deck i built with their monstrous health and attacks, and i just could not keep up. the cards were in high demand, were crazy expensive, and i just gave up.
only cool thing about the Arceus and Dialga and Palkia card is there happened to be 236 cards in that set, and dialga236 has been my username for forever so its a fun coincidence
This makes me weep for TCG online, I HAD THIS CARD AND IT WAS AWESOME MAN
So on point. Well done
Pokémon TCG players when they see ADP:😨
Kids when they see EDP: 😳💀💀💀
i dont play pokm card game but others and what i learnd is start of game and infinite auras or extremy powerfull and most of them will become rly strong the moment they get the right support or meta change
I remember a few years ago when I got into the Pokemon TCG online game it was when ADP Zacian was at its height. I made myself one too and started to rank up quickly because of how strong it was. Only to get absolutely outplayed over and over by Pokedoll stall decks, that dont give any price cards on defeat and recycle themselves endlessly
I remember ADPZ era PTCGO
You either ran Decidugoon/Altariagoon, Eternamax Eternatus, ADPZ or got nuked
I'll argue, that Plasma Storm 134 Lugia EX, long ago, once had a similar effect. Which was the Overflow ability; if you knock out the opponent's front with Plasma Lugia, you take an additional card. The only restriction was that it costed resources to use it's only expensive attack, Plasma Gale, Overflow was an ability, and Lugia has to generally be up front. I'm only stating this, just to point out that these type of effects have happened before. But the difference was the card and the environment it was put in.
I missed this era of the TCG entirely, but kinda thankful now lol.
This was a good watch
Not surprised that ADP was so powerful since they're the three gods of creation.
Team up was the birth of modern Pokémon tcg, random overpowered bullshit
I remember pulling the thumbnail card In a pack a couple years ago, good times
Dude this is the greatest pokemon tcg video ever.
Wow, as someone whose only experience with the tcg is the gameboy game, these cards sound insanely strong. Just so I know, whenever a new series comes out, are you only allowed to use cards from that one?
You can use the cards from about the past 2-3 years in standard format. Roughly about 8-12 sets!
PTSD from ADP intensifies...
Imagine if this was like the Yu-Gi-Oh anime and these things are summoned real time, good luck fighting god and his two sons
The biggest issue in the ADP problem at the time in my opinion was Zacian V. It dealt massive damage and had perfect synergy with ADP. Before SSH, people were trying out different Cards with ADP, like Keldeo GX, Zapdos Articuno Moltres GX or Spiritomb. None of that was here when Zacian V hit the scene.
I quit playing when they announced tag teams. I regret nothing.
Odd that they didn't go back and use some cards that are immune to basics.
Where’s the footage from at 0:21? Dope animation !
twitter.com/pokemon_cojp/status/1511569555721801728?s=46&t=WKTyEKP6xVoEH_pR3OsXBw
as a gen 4 stan and a filthy dragon link combo spammer in yugioh, ADP+Zacian was the one deck I loved the most.
ADP was a blight on the metagame, and one of the biggest mistakes the pokemon company made with TCG.
My gourgeist /Raticate decks were only thing that could keep pace with their price card set up.
Technically prize card inflation was introduced way before ADP with Rayquaza & Deoxys LEGEND
"16 years after the ex expansion" holy shit that made me feel ancient
Dendene GX was the yrue goat being slotted in all decks.
That is true power.
when this deck first came out it was kind like eh, it got seen way more when zacian and the metal saucer card came out with energy switch tbf.
i find the concept of tag team pokemon cool, if a bit risky and extravagant. But ADP is just stupid. As someone who plays MTG, there are reasons why cards that accelerate formats are so valuable (and also banned.)
ADP GX: a wall of text
Kommo-o GX ultra uppercut: *nothing*
The strongest card is obviously tag team incineroar
It was Zacian V first and then Boss order’s that made ADP good.
Ok, I don’t care if everyone hates it, but we NEED ADPG (adding garuntina)
just looked through my card collection, i have all the cards for this insane setup and i can ruin the tcg for my friends forever, however, i would much rather collect cards than to play with them, so i probably won't
ADP is the only card to not be playable at a world championship but still win. Thats how strong it is
Back in second grade I had an adp but back then none of my friends that collected including me didn’t know rarity, we only new strength so I ended up trading it for a couple random gx’s
I played a lot of expanded during this time period on TCG online. Mostly because making a deck that could compete in that format was impossible. The only good card for dealing with tag teams was Aloan Ninetails with aurora veil. As it prevent all damage and effects from GX Pokemon
The sad thing is i traded that and 4 other cards into a victini v
I got one of the cards back atleast
P.s. i was in the fourth grade
Vmax should've been like break, basically a stage 3, that would've been good.