Game sense indeed. People always forget that. And when they die to a controller they say it's aim assist. I'm an MnK player everytime they say that, I think to myself, what makes you think they only won because of aim assist and not because they are just better.
yeah it's because they're better, as they continue to stand still over my box looting and clearly controller looting, I haven't had a player move and loot after one of deaths in such a long time.
7:53 aim assist does lock on to the knocked guy if he's closer to you, even if you're not ADSing. It's so annoying and has gotten me killed a few times because I have to hard pull away my view from the knocked guy, and sometimes I can't do it fast enough
2:20 yes, game sense matters most, but also what matters is spacial awareness, listening, and strategy.... which is something most controller players lack
And in my opinion, all of that falls under game sense. You don’t have to be a cracked player to win against controller. Just play slightly faster. Rot AA is bad but unless you play very predictably(like overpeeking, repealing the same angle, etc), you will win against those who only rely on it to win fights.
Yeah because controller players are skilless idiots getting carried by aim assist. The best players in the game all switched to controller and we're better than using mnk in under 100 hours. Controller kids are delusional.
Ya this just about sums it up. I’ve got ab 5K hours on roller and switched to MnK, at 3.6 K hours on the keys now. It’s the inhuman consistency that you get from controller that is crazy. My god , also it isn’t as fatiguing. You can play on controller (when you aren’t learning it using brain processing power to learn something new) for like 12+ hours easily and your gameplay will look identical from start to finish. 6 hr session on MnK and you get off lookin like Hellen Keller took over for you from the fatigue , can’t aim, can’t think, can’t do shit 😂
Amazing job! I think this is one of the most realistic and down-to-earth video on this topic to this day! The suggestion on tweaks is probably the best and also matches my biases. IMO, AA can stay as is strength-wise; tweak rotation AA a bit. Even just a 100-150ms delay would be more than enough for now, and everyone would be happy enough.
Also, IMO, I still think, that AA tweaks are incoming around the time when Areans or other PvP format Ranked mode comes back. Especially now when player base is going down and they can just gain attract 6 even 7 figures of new potential players on PC. I can bet on this claims! :)
Best take I’ve heard so far - especially when it comes to balancing inputs against each other. This logic can be applied to any and all games with rotational aim assist. The reaction time factor shouldn’t be negated completely on any input. W take
I like the delay idea. Feels like a fairly undiscussed option. I really think that an under discussed issue with AA is the learning curves between the two inputs. Learning MNK is hard. You gotta spend thousands of hours learning close, mid, and long range fighting, as well as movement if you even know where to find the tutorials and such since its not dev intended. For roller, yeah it might be a bit more boring but winning majority of the close range fights for 60% skill is a great time investment and still feels real good. Sure you need to spend probably the same amount of time as an mnk player learning to aim at these mid/long ranges but you still have one less thing to learn (recoil smoothing also makes up for a big portion of ranged issues). So realistically, if you spent an equal amount of time learning both inputs, the roller player will almost assuredly be better. This fact probably keeps potential MNK players away from the game as well. its hard coming to terms that a guy with a controller can just win easier. Also ignorance is bliss. most roller players probably won't ever care enough to get good at mnk to where they can one clip someone wtih a stock r99 and wall bounce over there heads and watch them do the roboturn.
My only issue with the learning curve discussion is that the main issue that roller has is that every single FPS game out there implements aim assist, response curves and sensitivity so differently... To the point that just spending considerable time playing a game like COD throws off your muscle memory for Apex when you return.. aiming well is almost not transferable.. whereas on MNK most FPS are raw input, and you can configure a gaming mouse to match sensitivity regardless of the game.. thus allowing you to use something like Aimlabs to improve your aim across all games.. so a seasoned roller player coming fresh to Apex mostly brings his game sense and reaction time, whereas a seasoned MNK player coming to Apex comes with the whole kit (albeit recoil control)... I'm not sure on the fix for this, cause as you say new player on MNK in general will suck for quite a lot longer than a new player on roller
The reason your amelia's is hurting you is because it's at a value of three and it's no longer at a value of six. So at that point the amoses doesn't really do anything unless your reticle is perfectly centered on the target the entire time
A really good video on this matter but I do have some things to add to it. First, I think it's normal that people find it a bit easier to play on controller because it is suppose to be easy, what I mean is that controller was designed to play game so it is normal for it to be much easier to get into than MnK. Second, I do agree that AA is a little strong and a little something need to change but a big change can completely nuke this input. The problem with that is if they make AA completely or almost gone, they will have to remove tap strafing and other MnK movement to balance it out, so people who complain about it be careful what you are wishing for.
I think it's hilarious when I see people trying to wall bounce to avoid me when I'm playing on roller, it literally does nothing for them since my aim is near perfect even at a distance where aim assist doesn't even function. Doing dumb looking hops on walls to avoid getting shot while getting lasered seems pretty embarrassing to me
Which is extremely difficult to do, but it is possible. I've spent a very long time and I'm probably like 40 minutes every single day in the firing range. Just practicing reticle placement and recoil patterns. That's it. That's the only two things that I practice every single day for 40 minutes just so that I can have a chance to compete.
paddles will boost your movement for sure wall bounce, super glide, interaction time for shield swaps and opening doors as well. Cool vid but you do need more time on roller for movement.
Even then, you still have to do a lot of tracking of your reticle as well as reacting as well as controlling your recoil pattern. And now since we're aiming at a value of three point amoss instead of six nowadays, you have to do a lot more tracking than you did in season 15. On console you're also playing. Majority of players are not on high tier setups. Majority of players are also not playing with state-of-the-art controllers like most of the pro players are. When a lot of players are still on Old gen so the fact of the matter is the Nerf was unnecessary. Regardless of what pros or cons there was.
Here you have it " 3 days on controller and you better up close than somoene who practised 10 000 hours" also "the main part and fights are up close" = Yes, aim assist is stronger in Apex. Rotational aim assist removal would be a start but 0.4 is still too strong (A lot of Pros say It). I have more than 10k playing hours as well and get destroyed up close by aim assist bots with no skill who just hit more shot because of their stupid soft aimbot not because of their actual movement and tracking.
It's actually not 6 anymore it's 3 since they nerfed it in season 16 which was stupid bc now you have track way more than you should have to on a controller
As someone who switched to M&K a few months back, controller is absolutely garbage except in very close fights. Putting that aside, it feels like you're playing a completely different game on m&k. Controller needs a huge overhaul in this game, nerf roational AA and give them movement and call it a day 🤷♂️
Im pretty good with controller.. and im trying to learn mnk.. For me i just realised how stupid the idea of aim assist is.. Why has there to be a artifically buffed input? Mnk is just better for fps games.. And it should be possible for console to play on mnk too.. And who ever decides to stick with a les precise input has to blame themselves..
Smart play, but man, if you're on PC, I will tell you this, MNK will feel more rewarding in the long run. Everyone will make u feel bad for playing roller
@@Frostvul Bullshit in my experience, but then again I'm better than the vast majority of people I play with and people are shocked when I tell them I play on roller
I played controller most of my life up till apex came out and I don’t remember if there was rotational aim assist. It seems really op these days especially with its 0 ms correction speed. Sadly I don’t think there will be a change anytime soon since console on apex is apparently their biggest player base.
9:26 i was going to comment the same thing you said about upclose combat but at i would prefer that respawn made controller aim assist the same as pc but give them more sensitivity customization mos game have 1-20 different senses for roller
Actually, no you don’t. That’s the entire problem. You can be significantly worse at aiming and still win because rotational aim assist is literally inhumanely impossible to replicate
Personally, I think all m&k players are complainers personally. Right now. The way way AA is working right now on a controller and the fact that you have to track a lot more than you should have to. I would rather play on mouse and keyboard. It should have never been nerfed
For the love of god just seperate inputs and both sides will stop crying. MnK players will have to play against other movement sweats and controller players will be playing against others with aim assist. I'm soooooo tired of this topic, and there's a lot of coping on both sides.
on pc there are so many players using cronus scripts and ds4 scripts on controller, many more players than you or anyone else would think, if you see a controller reticle shaking it's a script, gotta entertain people though
8:20 mnk people have so much more advantages but they still complain 😂 it’s CRAZY bruh 9/10 my controller teammates SUCK so don’t tell me aim assist does everything for people Either you’re good or you’re trash I’m a controller player that always has a secondary long range or atleast 3xcog Any range is easy if you practice If I don’t play I become trash very quickly Trash people will always find a way to complain I’ve had teammates die and quit immediately. When I see the score at the end I’m confused because if I was trash like them I would want to be on the team of someone doing well😅but they rage quit the same way people rage complain
Rotational aim assist is just dumb, it's completely unnecessary. It just makes no sense. That being said playing on controller isn't fun at all, mnk just feels better in every way except tracking people when they're strafing back and forth
As a controller player i completely agree with this whole video please give us either a delay or a way to completely customize our aim assist like other games mainly like the first descendants or something possibly even overwatch
at the end of the day I can use my brain as much as I can, even after thousand of hours up close i'm always going to lose to a close range 4k20b multi masters/pred on a controller. it's unfair the rotational aim assist doesn't feel balanced, if apex would had corrected the aim assist issues the way The Finals devs did, yes they would lose a huge chunk of their playerbase due to them being a bunch crutch users but would bring balance to the game.
Funny how the people that complain about aim assist while they use their entire arm to aim and abuse tap strafe mechanics (basically movement hacks totally legit on pc)
Gamesense wise your right, but if one input literally has an assistance is basically "cheating" is just a fact that it has an advantage over mnk. It just should not exist, controller players should just practice like and mnk player. And movement wise, I thin they should bring back tap strafe to controler, cuz removing it makes no sense and brings one small advantage to mnk, which still smaller than AA.
top 10000 r5r players, controller players on average have 30% better aim only 4 mnk players are in the top 1000 every 4th roller player is better then 99.94% of pc players
I started playing on it and yeah it aims for you actual cheats lmao I was dropping more damage than everyone in ltms easily then playing real game I was hitting shots id never hit its so stupid. .4 is just way too high and it shouldnt track for you.
So basically, controller isn't fun and sucks in every way besides being broken at close range. I switched from roller to mnk and some of those weaknesses on roller get mitigated with time on the input. So what is the point of roller being so strong on pc?
People need to realize it’s a video game and controller isn’t supposed to be insanely hard. It’s meant to be fun. MnK is a choice and you know it’s gonna be harder before you even learn it. No point in complaining about your own choice
My teammates are Xbox or PlayStation people always I can promise you that 9/10 my teammates are trash. There’s no way aim assist is that good if most matches my team sucks. I swear to you brother most games I play my teammates are dog💩 even the high level ones I never complained about mnk advantages because I don’t suck at the game The only people that complain are people that suck and need to blame something on their death ie a lot of the times a dead teammate will get annoyed and complain but the fact is they got themselves killed
Game sense indeed. People always forget that. And when they die to a controller they say it's aim assist. I'm an MnK player everytime they say that, I think to myself, what makes you think they only won because of aim assist and not because they are just better.
yeah it's because they're better, as they continue to stand still over my box looting and clearly controller looting, I haven't had a player move and loot after one of deaths in such a long time.
@@GaaraFPSkeep complaining
Cry.. if you lost, theyre better. And you missed your shots.@GaaraFPS
Nah it’s def aim assist when I watch the kill can they literally suck and just aim bot me
@@Frostvul did yall miss the whole point of him referring to how strong rotational aim assist is..
6:38 should have inserted the shiv clip of him screaming for a rez
7:53 aim assist does lock on to the knocked guy if he's closer to you, even if you're not ADSing. It's so annoying and has gotten me killed a few times because I have to hard pull away my view from the knocked guy, and sometimes I can't do it fast enough
2:20 yes, game sense matters most, but also what matters is spacial awareness, listening, and strategy.... which is something most controller players lack
And in my opinion, all of that falls under game sense. You don’t have to be a cracked player to win against controller. Just play slightly faster. Rot AA is bad but unless you play very predictably(like overpeeking, repealing the same angle, etc), you will win against those who only rely on it to win fights.
Yeah because controller players are skilless idiots getting carried by aim assist. The best players in the game all switched to controller and we're better than using mnk in under 100 hours. Controller kids are delusional.
Ya this just about sums it up. I’ve got ab 5K hours on roller and switched to MnK, at 3.6 K hours on the keys now.
It’s the inhuman consistency that you get from controller that is crazy. My god , also it isn’t as fatiguing. You can play on controller (when you aren’t learning it using brain processing power to learn something new) for like 12+ hours easily and your gameplay will look identical from start to finish. 6 hr session on MnK and you get off lookin like Hellen Keller took over for you from the fatigue , can’t aim, can’t think, can’t do shit 😂
Amazing job! I think this is one of the most realistic and down-to-earth video on this topic to this day! The suggestion on tweaks is probably the best and also matches my biases. IMO, AA can stay as is strength-wise; tweak rotation AA a bit. Even just a 100-150ms delay would be more than enough for now, and everyone would be happy enough.
Also, IMO, I still think, that AA tweaks are incoming around the time when Areans or other PvP format Ranked mode comes back. Especially now when player base is going down and they can just gain attract 6 even 7 figures of new potential players on PC. I can bet on this claims! :)
6:20 thats why as a roller player you play wraith, horizon, octane use your Q and barrel stuff people
Best take I’ve heard so far - especially when it comes to balancing inputs against each other. This logic can be applied to any and all games with rotational aim assist. The reaction time factor shouldn’t be negated completely on any input. W take
I like the delay idea. Feels like a fairly undiscussed option. I really think that an under discussed issue with AA is the learning curves between the two inputs. Learning MNK is hard. You gotta spend thousands of hours learning close, mid, and long range fighting, as well as movement if you even know where to find the tutorials and such since its not dev intended. For roller, yeah it might be a bit more boring but winning majority of the close range fights for 60% skill is a great time investment and still feels real good. Sure you need to spend probably the same amount of time as an mnk player learning to aim at these mid/long ranges but you still have one less thing to learn (recoil smoothing also makes up for a big portion of ranged issues). So realistically, if you spent an equal amount of time learning both inputs, the roller player will almost assuredly be better. This fact probably keeps potential MNK players away from the game as well. its hard coming to terms that a guy with a controller can just win easier.
Also ignorance is bliss. most roller players probably won't ever care enough to get good at mnk to where they can one clip someone wtih a stock r99 and wall bounce over there heads and watch them do the roboturn.
My only issue with the learning curve discussion is that the main issue that roller has is that every single FPS game out there implements aim assist, response curves and sensitivity so differently... To the point that just spending considerable time playing a game like COD throws off your muscle memory for Apex when you return.. aiming well is almost not transferable.. whereas on MNK most FPS are raw input, and you can configure a gaming mouse to match sensitivity regardless of the game.. thus allowing you to use something like Aimlabs to improve your aim across all games.. so a seasoned roller player coming fresh to Apex mostly brings his game sense and reaction time, whereas a seasoned MNK player coming to Apex comes with the whole kit (albeit recoil control)... I'm not sure on the fix for this, cause as you say new player on MNK in general will suck for quite a lot longer than a new player on roller
The reason your amelia's is hurting you is because it's at a value of three and it's no longer at a value of six. So at that point the amoses doesn't really do anything unless your reticle is perfectly centered on the target the entire time
A really good video on this matter but I do have some things to add to it. First, I think it's normal that people find it a bit easier to play on controller because it is suppose to be easy, what I mean is that controller was designed to play game so it is normal for it to be much easier to get into than MnK. Second, I do agree that AA is a little strong and a little something need to change but a big change can completely nuke this input. The problem with that is if they make AA completely or almost gone, they will have to remove tap strafing and other MnK movement to balance it out, so people who complain about it be careful what you are wishing for.
I think it's hilarious when I see people trying to wall bounce to avoid me when I'm playing on roller, it literally does nothing for them since my aim is near perfect even at a distance where aim assist doesn't even function. Doing dumb looking hops on walls to avoid getting shot while getting lasered seems pretty embarrassing to me
This is the best take I’ve heard on MNK vs Controller
Which is extremely difficult to do, but it is possible. I've spent a very long time and I'm probably like 40 minutes every single day in the firing range. Just practicing reticle placement and recoil patterns. That's it. That's the only two things that I practice every single day for 40 minutes just so that I can have a chance to compete.
paddles will boost your movement for sure wall bounce, super glide, interaction time for shield swaps and opening doors as well. Cool vid but you do need more time on roller for movement.
Looking forward to watching this later🫡
Even then, you still have to do a lot of tracking of your reticle as well as reacting as well as controlling your recoil pattern. And now since we're aiming at a value of three point amoss instead of six nowadays, you have to do a lot more tracking than you did in season 15. On console you're also playing. Majority of players are not on high tier setups. Majority of players are also not playing with state-of-the-art controllers like most of the pro players are. When a lot of players are still on Old gen so the fact of the matter is the Nerf was unnecessary. Regardless of what pros or cons there was.
Here you have it " 3 days on controller and you better up close than somoene who practised 10 000 hours" also "the main part and fights are up close" = Yes, aim assist is stronger in Apex.
Rotational aim assist removal would be a start but 0.4 is still too strong (A lot of Pros say It).
I have more than 10k playing hours as well and get destroyed up close by aim assist bots with no skill who just hit more shot because of their stupid soft aimbot not because of their actual movement and tracking.
"OH BUt AiM aSsIsT"
It's actually not 6 anymore it's 3 since they nerfed it in season 16 which was stupid bc now you have track way more than you should have to on a controller
Aimassist working against you is such a good point out. Turned it off for a while and stop using automatics
W analysis, really on point they shoud nerf the rotational AA at least by 50% then give us movement freedom
As someone who switched to M&K a few months back, controller is absolutely garbage except in very close fights. Putting that aside, it feels like you're playing a completely different game on m&k. Controller needs a huge overhaul in this game, nerf roational AA and give them movement and call it a day 🤷♂️
Great video! Thank you for your unbiased opinion
Im pretty good with controller.. and im trying to learn mnk..
For me i just realised how stupid the idea of aim assist is..
Why has there to be a artifically buffed input?
Mnk is just better for fps games..
And it should be possible for console to play on mnk too..
And who ever decides to stick with a les precise input has to blame themselves..
Fact.. just leave console player playing with mek.. fps need to be forced to play with mek
Yea so far I agree especially on movement cause the only way for me to have good movement on controller is to use horizon
If your good enough on controller you can get that insane level of movement. And to be honest lately ive been getting like no aim assist half the time
I want to play this game next season but not buy anything. I think I will make this my goal to learn controller.
Smart play, but man, if you're on PC, I will tell you this, MNK will feel more rewarding in the long run. Everyone will make u feel bad for playing roller
@@Frostvulbc you should feel bad for needing assist bc ur trash
@@Frostvul But 80% of my games end with me dying to 3 controller players.
@@Frostvul Bullshit in my experience, but then again I'm better than the vast majority of people I play with and people are shocked when I tell them
I play on roller
@@zk0rnedyeah the 80% controller PC NA scene is definitely shocked lil bro
I played controller most of my life up till apex came out and I don’t remember if there was rotational aim assist. It seems really op these days especially with its 0 ms correction speed. Sadly I don’t think there will be a change anytime soon since console on apex is apparently their biggest player base.
console has input delay, controller hooked to a pc is WAY better
In terms of range, you're better off making use of your reticle placement and The recoil patterns
I think when it comes to m&k up close it depends on the person and how well you're able to track your reticle and the reticle box from up close?
9:26 i was going to comment the same thing you said about upclose combat but at i would prefer that respawn made controller aim assist the same as pc but give them more sensitivity customization mos game have 1-20 different senses for roller
Not even joking the amount of roller players i know that said take away aim assist and give roller tap strafe. Most people i know agree
Linear is better close range but classic response is better mid/long range
I play 4-4 classic I like my ARs
Really I’m gonna try classic 4-4 then
They do complain alot. Having aim assist doesn't automatically make you good at aiming, you still have to be good at the game.
Actually, no you don’t. That’s the entire problem. You can be significantly worse at aiming and still win because rotational aim assist is literally inhumanely impossible to replicate
bro took the strike pack off for the picture
Personally, I think all m&k players are complainers personally. Right now. The way way AA is working right now on a controller and the fact that you have to track a lot more than you should have to. I would rather play on mouse and keyboard. It should have never been nerfed
For the love of god just seperate inputs and both sides will stop crying. MnK players will have to play against other movement sweats and controller players will be playing against others with aim assist. I'm soooooo tired of this topic, and there's a lot of coping on both sides.
The most broken controller thing you can do is to play horizon and still laser someone while going up your Q, and dropping down from your Q
Controller feels like shit compared to MNK.
That's borderline impossible only the best will laser someome.
This dw anymore
I have controller teammates all the time and 9/10 a horizon will miss her shots on her q
Trash players will always complain
@@Fiddyscent horizons q accuracy is the same as hipfiring midair bruh
One Roller distance is easier in my oppinion u Just need to counter strafe
is it not most inporten the fun part?
on pc there are so many players using cronus scripts and ds4 scripts on controller, many more players than you or anyone else would think, if you see a controller reticle shaking it's a script, gotta entertain people though
8:20 mnk people have so much more advantages but they still complain 😂 it’s CRAZY bruh
9/10 my controller teammates SUCK so don’t tell me aim assist does everything for people
Either you’re good or you’re trash
I’m a controller player that always has a secondary long range or atleast 3xcog
Any range is easy if you practice
If I don’t play I become trash very quickly
Trash people will always find a way to complain
I’ve had teammates die and quit immediately. When I see the score at the end I’m confused because if I was trash like them I would want to be on the team of someone doing well😅but they rage quit the same way people rage complain
Great vid dude
Your Probably The Most Sane MnK Player
First unbaised vid on controller being op
If you dont play claw and have good movement on roller it's going to feel sluggish
Rotational aim assist is just dumb, it's completely unnecessary. It just makes no sense. That being said playing on controller isn't fun at all, mnk just feels better in every way except tracking people when they're strafing back and forth
It feels one dimensional cos you're not used to the controls yet... Try 90 days of playing and improving your controller movement techniques.
As a controller player i completely agree with this whole video please give us either a delay or a way to completely customize our aim assist like other games mainly like the first descendants or something possibly even overwatch
tbh no ones ever happy
Bro you should’ve used a PlayStation controller, Xbox controller has more input delay that kbm and PlayStation controller
Small deadzone setting is not that small (around 10%, not sure) and it shows like sluggishness as well.
at the end of the day I can use my brain as much as I can, even after thousand of hours up close i'm always going to lose to a close range 4k20b multi masters/pred on a controller. it's unfair the rotational aim assist doesn't feel balanced, if apex would had corrected the aim assist issues the way The Finals devs did, yes they would lose a huge chunk of their playerbase due to them being a bunch crutch users but would bring balance to the game.
Funny how the people that complain about aim assist while they use their entire arm to aim and abuse tap strafe mechanics (basically movement hacks totally legit on pc)
Gamesense wise your right, but if one input literally has an assistance is basically "cheating" is just a fact that it has an advantage over mnk. It just should not exist, controller players should just practice like and mnk player. And movement wise, I thin they should bring back tap strafe to controler, cuz removing it makes no sense and brings one small advantage to mnk, which still smaller than AA.
top 10000 r5r players, controller players on average have 30% better aim
only 4 mnk players are in the top 1000
every 4th roller player is better then 99.94% of pc players
I started playing on it and yeah it aims for you actual cheats lmao I was dropping more damage than everyone in ltms easily then playing real game I was hitting shots id never hit its so stupid. .4 is just way too high and it shouldnt track for you.
So basically, controller isn't fun and sucks in every way besides being broken at close range.
I switched from roller to mnk and some of those weaknesses on roller get mitigated with time on the input.
So what is the point of roller being so strong on pc?
Overwatch has Rotational AA doesnt it
No
@@biggiecheese2004 yes it does btw
Still rather get a PC and play mnk
agreed!!!
Movement kills aim assist
People need to realize it’s a video game and controller isn’t supposed to be insanely hard. It’s meant to be fun. MnK is a choice and you know it’s gonna be harder before you even learn it. No point in complaining about your own choice
My teammates are Xbox or PlayStation people always
I can promise you that 9/10 my teammates are trash.
There’s no way aim assist is that good if most matches my team sucks. I swear to you brother most games I play my teammates are dog💩 even the high level ones
I never complained about mnk advantages because I don’t suck at the game
The only people that complain are people that suck and need to blame something on their death ie a lot of the times a dead teammate will get annoyed and complain but the fact is they got themselves killed