*MAGENE PES P505 BASE* IF YOU HAVE SHIMANO CRANKS, YOU NEED THIS POWER METER CRANK!!
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
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0:00 price update
1:03 video introduction
3:24 why it is so good
5:09 what bike im installing
5:45 whats inside the box
8:04 crank arm sizes and cadence
9:09 prepping my bike for install
9:35 weight difference??
12:12 installing chainrings on crank
13:10 NEWTON METERS
14:22 finished product beautiful!!!
15:20 how it looks on bike
16:57 test day
17:11 I GOT DROPPED
19:20 POWER TEST RESULTS
22:03 USE MAGENE APP TO SETUP
22:22 should you buy?
23:00 why i got dropped lol 
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BUY THE CRANK HERE: pixel.xin/3vEIJG
USE CODE: "GC PERFORMANCE" FOR 10% OFF
This is one of the items that truly blows me away for how much value you get from it. This crank is $300 and is saying it puts out sram quarq accuracy numbers that is competitive in the weight department and is easily and ready to be installed on any shimano crank bike.... if you have a shimano crank and are looking for a power meter upgrade, this is hard not to consider. Same BB and Same chainrings, its that simple.
Do you have a Trek with a T47 BB you could try? I've heard from multiple sources that the Magene spider rubs the frame.
@@tom1sogi have the same question....just about to order this on the link provided but i need to make sure of the compatibility on my 2022 trek emonda with t47 bb..
I bought two of these and used your discount code. Gonna pair them with the 12 speed ultegra cranks. Thanks buddy!
Looks like the code doesn't work anymore
Code is not working
It a good deal if it doesn't break. I bought the spider power meter from them and it stop connecting to my garmin. It took multiple emails just to get a answer from them. The end result was they wanted me to pay for shipping to them. Than if they felt like it need replacing they would ship me another at my expense. It was close to $80 round trip. But still no guarantee it will last any amount of time.
Picked up one of these on Ali during 11.11 sale for $250!
First power meter. Grateful for companies like Magene making power training possible at this price point.
I bought this off of the video that GP Lama posted. For the same price as a single sided 4iii or Stages on a good deal, it was a no-brainer. Had it for a month now and so far, no issues. 🤞🏾I've gone past the 'broke' phase and it should be great for the rest the product's battery life/usage.
Bought a P505 power meter in June and have been using it a lot since (at least 3500km in that time). Not using the cranks in this video, though. Still, super happy with it. Works great. Consistent with the Sigeyi AXO I have on my other bike. Still haven't charged it once since I bought it. I've also got a Magene heart rate monitor and a headlight, and I've been happy with those too. They definitely make good quality products at reasonable prices.
Awesome review! Picked up 2 one for me and my dad
Got the same power meter too. Need to install and upload my review too hahaha
Thanks for the review and the discount code. I pulled the trigger on this power meter crank since I have a DA groupset. Now we wait lol
that is awesome!! it looks so good with the cranks and mine is still working amazing!! I barley charge it and works all the time
I've had this power meter since June. Immediately bought it as soon as it became available. Been flawless ever since, Haven't even charged it yet since then! I even noticed that my front shifting improved. I used 105 R7000 chainrings and I think the spacing between the chainrings is better than the stock Shimano crank for some reason.
Some reported crank arm loosing situations. Did you experience this kind of issue?
@@bond281283 I was a concerned considering there is only one pinch bolt compared to shimano's two, but I've had zero issues. Used a torque wrench and torqued to the recommended specification by Magene.
I had an early version Magene power meter in 2021 and had no problems. It had pods straight on the crank arms, I sold it because I needed shorter cranks. These look much more refined, the old version had 2 holes on the end of the crank arm and they whistled in the wind 😂
I'm with you on the non stock type stuff. I would totally do a setup like this if I had a Shimano setup.
it just looks extra proooo, looks like I know what I am doing lol
Just bought these 2 weeks ago. Took em out for a few training rides. Similar accuracy to my Assioma and Quarq Power Meters. The crank length options is also another plus. Best value for money Power Meter.
Thanks man! 👍
Love that all RUclips cycling channels are supporting each other and giving props!
gp llama is a professional!!!
I think something worth mentioning about these as well is the availability of different crank legnth options. For me locally (New Zealand) it seems hard/exspensive to get your hands on shorter cranks. So from a bike fitting point of view these tick boxes too. Fantastic product.
I no longer think 165mm is short. Transitioning from 165mm to 155mm. And Magene don't offer 155.
Complete rookie cyclist here, is crank length just personal preference? If my bike came with 175mm cranks, I could order the 165mm kit and use it with my bikes stock chainring?
This probably seems like a really dumb question to the initiated lol
06:04. Some Spiderman reflexes over there.. lol 🤣
They're known to be accurate. But you need to do higher wattage intervals to see any differences beyond calibration issues
Had this in my cart for a month, your 10% code made me pull pull the trigger, Thanx👍
Great to hear! That’s awesome
Nice review, that's a heck of a deal with your discount code. Looks like the crank is matte black with shade of charcoal. Any chance you can fit it with Ultegra 12 speed crank to see how they match up aesthetically?
I ordered it yesrerday ! Thx for vidéo
me too
The discrepancy between the Jersey pocket and the bike mounted values might be the temperature. The power meter might be using the temperature from the head unit to do it's corrections.
I had seen GPlamas video on this too, seems like it's a no brainer to go with this if you need a Shimano compatible PM. I paid the same amount for a single sided crank arm from 4iiii a couple years ago.
My issue with the P505 base are the cranks. They are proprietary and Magene does not sell them without the powermeter.
@@FuchsHorst That's good to know, I wonder if you'd be able to get a replacement if you contacted them.
@@FuchsHorst They will probably make them available as an non PM crankset eventually like they did with the QED, I think at the moment they are struggling to keep up with demand as the official store has all the common lengths on pre-order.
@@chris1275cc I went with the more expensive 505 with Rotor Aldhu/Vegast Interface. Canyon sold many Grail bikes with that crank/24mm spindle combo and you get them for 40-100€ used.
I just bought it based on your review and applied your code, 269.10 total price for a power meter is unbelievable, Thanks.
You are very welcome!! I am still using it to this day and really have been suprised with the quality.
Got mine, with the discount code, yesterday and installed them today. Not going to able to use them for a bit as we are getting heavy snow. However, they paired up quickly and look better in person than in the videos.
Thank you!
you are very welcome and I love the power meter alot, I think they look so sick
Don't expect it to last! there will be charging issues after a while and only option is to send back to China. Mine stopped charging and even melted charge cable ! You can get a quark power for not much more or 4iii
Here, in Singapore, I am still not riding because Shimano has had no update on their faulty crank situation. I am close to pulling the trigger on this and having it shipped out here.
I have the 325PS for quite a while. Works perfectly and chainrings are only about 60 bucks (decided to change to 50-34) on TB.
Exactly it is the perfect substitute for this
Great video! (Just as all your videos are)
Thank you!!
that is a solid
Hi, can you fit this spider PM with Shimano Alugear 12speed 1x chainring? I really like this PM crankset and also love the looks of Alugear 1x chainring but not sure will it fits. Thanks for your amazing review :D
I saw you aren’t tourque the spider center lock , beware about that because you can feel slip if that was below 35nm.. because i already installed that and need to re torque again.. good luck !
Of course if it’s customers I will always use tools. But I am very familiar with torque feelings. I know it sounds cocky, but I been working on bikes for 12 years. And plus the blue lock tight is nice
Impressive and super tempting...🤔😰
Try it, I am really enjoying it
Will your discount code with Magene work for their wheels?
Great review mate. This is actually the same price you pay for Stages or 4iiii single sided and you get a dual sided powermeter and a new crank. Unfortunately, they don't make 160mm cranks.
I’m still running these cranks too they are nice
Did I miss it but what were your thoughts on the shorter crank arms? I've been wanting to try a shorter crank arm myself but to be on the safe side I'm probably going to stick with the 172.5's. Thanks for the video@!
How tall are you? Unless over 6ft I'd definitely say those are too long... also not really anything unsafe about switching. Just adjust your saddle height up the difference in the length. I'm 5ft 9 and use 165mm
Do it, I went from 175mm do 172.5 and it's perfect
What do you think about setting this crank up for SRAM AXS? I've been looking at this crank to pair with Rotor's SRAM AXS chainrings so that I would have a better crankset/bottom bracket arrangement for my bb86 frameset.
Won't work. P505 Base has proprietary direct mount system. You nerd the spider only version called P505 for Rotor or SRAM
does this work with Shimano MTB by any chance?
Do you have to change the chain rings to install the power metter or can you keep yourexisting ones?
Thank you so much for your time!
Keep the existing one
Haha back in the day that was called the Mikes ride... We used to accelerate when people from deerfield and boca tried to pick the ride up 😂. I do have a question on the pes, is the q factor wider than the shitmano's? I'm assuming this is why you had to adjust the front derailleur?
yea I remember when it was mikes ride, I only hoped in there a couple times but guys from the shop would always join in, yes it is 1mm wider, just by a little, but yes this is the reason for it
Does it come with pez reloadable candy ? 🍬
I just installed my PES P05 power meter (125g) with the 165mm crank arms (497g) this weekend. Combined weight 622g. Went from Shimano 105 172.5mm (541g) crank arms.
So far the power meter and using shorter crank arms are good.
Please remeber to zero in the calibration before going out. I forgot on the first day riding and my power numbers were higher than after I calibrated which made me sad lol.
Also I had to adjust my limit screw slightly for the FD. It didnt go into the big chain ring when first installed. This is for 105 Di2.
Same when i first got my powermeter i installed it wrong+no calibration. I was like "dang 300w and i feel like nothing i must have talents"....
LOL
hahahha I should have kept it like that for the video, make me look good
I put one one my GRX Gravel bike with some STONE 46-32T Chainrings about 2 months ago and I can't really fault it. I did find the left/right % readings seem to jump around more than my pedal types while riding, but I don't have previous experience with spider based systems maybe that's the norm?
Only thing to take note of (especially with a sub-compact Gravel setup) is that the arms being straight and angled rather than curved like Shimano you cant be sloppy with the top limit and front mech' position as the cage comes quite close to the arm. They do seem very stiff so they don't flex into it but I'm a bit of a flyweight/spinner so not the best judge.
Q factor of GRX is 151 and these are 147. Are you certain this works?
@@onemetre Yeah I was aware and had a Ultegra Front Mech in my Wiggle "basket" ready but its fine (although slightly more fiddly to adjust initially).
My brother in christ, i'm about to commit the same madness. i am afraid to wear out the tabs of my pm, can you confirm there is enough clearance? i have a 11sp chain, maybe switching to 12 sp coud help a little.
Also regarding your concern, power output at 12 o'clock crank position is quite low compared to 9 o' clock, you may already know that since you have experience with pedal based PM, so flex towards your fd shouldn't be a big issue.
Can you share a link / specifics for which you’re using from Stone?
@@madjackal696 It was fiddly to adjust but I did get it spot on in the end, from reading online results may vary depending on frame/FD hangar position (my gravel bike has 2 positions so I could run very small rings) I do know for a fact that road Shimano 11 FD's run perfectly with GRX so it's easy solvable if you run into issues.
Precision is a better metric than accuracy. I wonder why they don't ever get that info.
Anyway, if only they made 160 mm cranks...😢 Went with 4iiii instead
yea your right about precision for sure
Better than a 4iiii ?
Does it work with BBright bottom brackets with a 24mm spindle or do you actually need a Shimano bottom bracket? Bottom bracket specs are confusing
Yes it works. Anything that is 24mm it can work with anything that is SHIMANO compatible
Ceramicspeed
Bbright
Hambini
Wheels manufacturer
Whatever you like
Do you need a speed sensor with this .
Is it compatible with Shimano Claris R2030 3x chainring?
how is the power readings in sprints?
Any power meter is better than a Shimano one. I love my Assioma Duos.
1.5% accuracy is neither here nor there. If a person complains that it is not accurate, Im guessing that same person has an FTP of 1000w where 15w inaccuracy could be a factor but if you have an FTP of 300w, I guarantee that 4.5w + - is not going to lose you a race or get you dropped.
Yea I agree with this
Is it OK to run a power meter on a fixed gear? I mostly ride single speed but occasionally I'll go fixed and I'm worried that loading the sensors opposite to how they're designed might damage them in some way.
I do not see it being a problem, I have neever heard of a ocmpnay having those issues
6:03 Nice save.
thanks!!!
I own this power meter and it has been great however recently the calibration offset number changes a bit. When I first got it the number would always be either 0 or 1 but now I see numbers between -2 and 16. I don’t know if this is a concern and would like to know what offset numbers you have been seeing.
Mine reads zero all the time, even after the most recent firmware update. Had it since July, can't fault it, replaced a P2max and works equally as good.
Is that a problem though? Isn't that the point of the calibrate feature? Pretty sure that's just telling you it would be inaccurate had you not calibrated.
@@graemehill maybe it’s just when I used a stages the offset number rarely changed that much so wasn’t sure.
Beware if you use 12 speed Di2 , the crankarm maybe interfere with the front derailleur
I am using it with 12 speed di2 and this is not the case.... this was installed on a 12 speed bike
@@GCPerformance18 that is my only question. Because I saw in your video, when you finish the assembly of the crackset, that you have a little of rug in the front. You fixed that rug? How? only by making the adjustment? I'm thinking to put Ultegra Di2 12V on my road bike, but I was looking to put another crankset....You can ensure me, that I will not have any problem with rug with this Magene PES505 crackset? Many thanks
Planning to buy this, can i set-up this with my 1x grx ?
yes you can it works with any shimano platform, same bcd.... this thing has been a workhorse for me, it is on my second bike and suprised at how little I have to do and it always works
Cam pick them up for around 220 dollars delivered to my door all inclusive
Sorry for the dumb question…would this be compatible with a mountain bike frame? 2020 trek Supercaliber?
as long as it is 24mm shimano spindle then yes it will work
The arms are almost straight with road Q-factor they might not clear the chainstays.
Any problems with creaking? I installed this on my Ultegra 12 spd chainrings and it’s been creaking. Got it torqued up to 14nm. Tried it with my 11 spd dura ace and it was fine🤷🏻♂️
nope not at all try adding grease to contact points for charings
@@GCPerformance18 just regreased them joints. Making me mad! If it persists, I’ll try changing my BB (currently Wheels Manufacturing).
Do this fit on trek emonda 2022 with t47 bb without any issue?saw some review says they rub on the frame..just need to make sure before i order..thanks
I wouldnt know, I would assume it does fit as a shimano crank does... but I can not confirm
did you end up buying one? asking cause i have a madone w t47...
Quick question, do I need a speed sensor because I have one .
you dont need one, usually gps run with gps, but s speed sensor they say is more accurate and maybe adds to more faster average mph
Where can I buy an S-Works water cup?
I sell them online through shopify $5000 usd
Hello GC Performance! The promo code has expired. Can you get Magene to renew the code?
I think my contract with them stopped i am sorry
would this also work with a grx810 crank? have been looking for a powermeter for my gravel bike.
yes it will, as long as it is same bcd
Only if it is 1x. The small ring on the GRX crank is a smaller BCD.
@@spangelsaregreatful 100% correct... I've learned this the hard way... :(
Hi all - does anyone know if these work ok with absoluteblack oval chainrings? I have a 50/34 set on at the minute with DA9100 crank and would like to change to this crank/ powermeter if possible.
as long as they are 110bcd then yes
@@GCPerformance18 am wanting to purchase and use the Absolute Black PREMIUM OVAL SUB-COMPACT 110/4 BCD 46/30 but not sure about the small holes shown in the pic... they also state: Our Sub Compacts chainrings are not compatible with certain power meters which have circular spider design (some Quarq models, Power2Max, etc…) If you are not sure about the compatibility of your power meter, please contact our customer service
would this work on a poseidon x ambition if i replaced the bb?
its a normal shimano 24mm spindle so as long as you have the right bb it should work
Ive said this before, I'll say it again to all of these OMG CHEAP CHINESE gear videos. How is the customer service? What is the support network for when things go wrong and need to be warrantied? Cheap and precise doesn't mean anything if you have to toss it and buy a new one every few years, or there is no support network for it from your local shops. Id really like to hear you go on about the warranty process/ customer service aspect of these products you show off.
Magene is a massive company that sells a plethora of products. All theses power meter companies don’t have service in house. If a customer has an issue they have to send it out. Same with magene. They have us warehouse and the products are pretty much plug and play. It’s all perspective on how much an item is and if it is worth the value. That is the point of the cheap products if you get 3/4 years out of the crank for $270 that is extreme value. That is longer life then a chain and cassette you have to replace which would cost more if it was ultegra or durace
I remember when SRM was the only option and it cost more than a high end bike.
Crazy that people complain about inflated prices so much when an SRM was $5k and lousy, narrow Zipps with potentially melting brake tracks were $2200 at the same time.
Tell the truth Grant you only reviewed this product so you could big up your mph with the bunch… only kidding, looks like a great power meter at an amazing price!
Lmfaooooo yea and to get dropped hahhaa
One thing I noticed is that when I tightened the left crank to torque spec, the left crank would come loose, even with loctite. Ended up over-tightening by an extra 2nm from spec and no more loosening.
How much NM ?
@@Panagiotis-Skordilis the torque spec is 10nm for the preload bolt and 12-14nm for the crank pinch bolt. I used 12-14nm on the preload and 14-16nm on the pinch bolt. All with loctite (blue colour).
@@antonpeterson1245 Your pinch bolt is loosen or the crank bolt? Pinch bolt i think doesn't matter so much. The problem i have with p505 is that the right crank arm touches the front derailleur
@@antonpeterson1245 Also you apply loctite on pinch bolt? Pinch bolt is plastic
@Panagiotis-Skordilis all the bolts were metal. Shimano's preload bolt is plastic, but the cranks that come with the powermeter is metal. Also, the install guide says to tighten preload bolt first (2nm), than the pinch bolt on the crank arm (12-14nm) and then the preload again (10nm) but by the time you have tightened the pinch bolt, the preload bolt is somehow already at the 10nm torque. This caused slack in my cranks and I had play in the crank.
Is there 177.5 or 180mm option?
Ridea makes 180mm cranks. I don't have power meter on it yet.
Grant - no reason to keep drawing attention to your voice/speech. Its fine, nobody notices or cares about.
Just keep the great content coming!
Thank you :) makes me feel better
How do you like you Polygon Grant?
Absolute love it. It is in an insane bike for the money one of the best value bikes out there on the market
21:13 it does make sense it’s signal attenuation. Signal has to go through salty meat and fat to reach its destination. No offense just facts.
Hahahhaa I mean, in theory I understand, I just feel like my phone in my back Jersey pocket for headphones or something. But it does make sense
Can you just use the powermeter and keep your 105 crankset?
No this is a whole new crank but your chainrings will work
Thanks
Do they fit the giant tcr? It has pressfit..
Yes as long as you have a SHIMANO compatible bottom bracket
@@GCPerformance18 alright thanks! These look very promising, still going to way to but them as I’ve just bought a new bike and don’t really know if I will find power useful. Using heartrate at the moment.
Yes, using it on my Giant TCR with Shimano 12 speed, you do need to adjust the front mech about 3mm outboard.
I'm looking to buy one of those but kinda "scared" about their customer support which seem inexistant
the company is huge they are amazing for a china company and they usualy get back within 24 hours, they are on opposite timezones then me but honestly trhe crank has been amazing sense having it I have not had 1 hiccup and also I rarly charge it and just get on the bike and go
@@GCPerformance18 Yes i'm quite convinced now, but amazon is out of stock sadly (in france its the only way to buy it). (Also convinced because of amazon support in case of problems)
just watch out. I pobought my p505 powermeter used it 5 times and delaminated, they offered warranty repair but shipping to china and back costs liek 50% of the value of new powermeter
Does it work for Shimano one by?
Yes it does
i don't like the way they leave the axle's hole uncovered
I have started to not like the pes on the side, I wish it was smaller
GC... ricer of youtube ✌
I just saw this unit. I want to buy one. Any idea if it will work with my set up. Ultegra 11 speed crank with a 1x absolute Black chainring???
Looks great, pity its US only
I know I did not know this was the case
Your code is expired? Please give us an update on your partner discount
I know they stoped doing it for the time being but we might start it back up again
@@GCPerformance18 I would love an update on that thanks for your reply man. also excited to see your new custom build.
@@RylHango Just ordered them today and it worked for me.
Can u get these in UK
I dont know why they dont sell out of the united states
Not that I could find, but only takes a couple of weeks from Aliexpress.
Bro, I am serious. You just got a SINCERE ANTAGONIST... That is my RUclips name. Ask VC, Cam Nicholls, Veloharmony and so on... they know me... Dylan also knows what I am LOL
I am keeping an eye on you LOL.
hahahha alright my friend I am here, you know where to find me
I am keeping an eye on you LOL @@GCPerformance18
great video, but most of us peasants are not riding $$dura- ace$$. Would be great to see Ultegra and 105 weight comparison or even something for the SRAM fan boys lol
Just look at it this way. It should be literally equal in weight of a non power 105 or ultegra.
Someone else commented on the 105 weight comparison.
You have dura ace and buy magene power.
Yes, it’s better readings
Ships to US only...oh...thanks
lol I’m sorry I was unaware of that
You can buy them off Panda Podium
Magene's store on Ali Express ships worldwide
those crankarms look identical to rotor vegast 24
I know lol I said that
ASS-E-oh-Mah.
I’m about to fight your ass
@@GCPerformance18 …ioma.
GC LAMA
hahahaha, what you think of them ride stats
It has to be better than Shimano power meters they are a joke really like everything Shimano crank related
Postage USA only 😞
yea kind of sucks I thought it was world wide
Potentiometers are nothing more than posturing for people who are not pros.....
Is the PES working?!? Oh wait, missing a NI. Wrong channel.
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA comment by 5 year old
Buyer BEWARE...!!! Major GARBAGE... Company Does NOT stand behind there product...!!!
thats wild, what happened? my crank is still running strong, and also I know about 20 other people who have this prodcut as well who are loving this... please tell me
Ricer of cycling youtube😂
This is the ultimate BS ever! Why should I replace my entire original crankset in order to install a one side power meter that cost US$ 300.00 dollars if I can just replace one arm of the original crankset for about the same price using the 4iiii or Stages one side power meter arm????????? Is this guy serious????
He is gonna delete it because I am right and he is giving lame tips in this channel!
Why would I delete it, let’s say you have a 11 speed crank and don’t want to worry about the recall. Also stages and or 4iii is expensive depending on the model a durace left sided crank arm is 500+ this is lighter then ultegra and 105 power cranks, and maybe you want to try smaller crank arms for a fit. There are plenty of reasons why this is a great choice. It’s accuracy reading is measured that or quarq.
Also get left right power meter accuracy instead of just normal power reading.
A left sided Stages is about $90 more where I live, and the 4iiii gen 3 ones are $200 over this one.
@@GCPerformance18 You did several times before. You don't like because I am telling people you are wrong and that is bad for your business. the 4iiii one side crank arm power meter cost about the same and you don't need to remove your entire crankset. 4iiii is accurate, at least as accurate as Magene and far easier to install. Nonsense to remove the entire crankset and move the chain rings from one to another and pay the same... BS!
It looks so ugly
of course its better than the piece of shit shimano PM, but when western brands offer left crank PMs for 200 i find it hard to justify buying a $300 spider PM even if it is good
Which PM do you mean for 200 bucks?
I have a Stages left crank arm for a Ultegra crankset, that was sadly involved in the bogus Shimano recall. My local bike shop inspected the crankset but was pretty dismissive about the whole situation. Bottom line, I don’t trust the crankset and looked for another alternative. This seemed like a good fit. $300 is a good price for piece of mind in my case.
@@fabiow88 i've got 2 105 cranks so i'm not affected by the recall thankfully
i've got 4iiii podiiium and 4iiii precision 3, 201€ and 210€ respectively@@clemensblakiewitz1025
NO! You absolutely DON'T need this power meter. This is a one side power meter that you have to disassemble your entire crankset to install it and move the chainrings from your actual crankset to the Magene one! It is bulshit! You DON'T have to do this. You DON'T need to go through all this hassle! Just buy a 4iiii crank arm power meter (it just one side power meter exactly like this Magene - one side only) for US$ 300.00 American dollars (that is what I paid for my 4iiii one side power meter arm) and just remove one arm of your crankset to install it. You don't have to remove the entire crankset and you don't have to pay a mechanic (GC-Performance) to do that for you. It is pretty easy. Don't listen to this guy! (he is gona delete this comment because it makes him look like a fool what is exactly how he is acting right now)....
what..... why would I delete your comment I never delete any comments
You don't like people who take of your mask ... @@GCPerformance18
Spider based PM's are dual sided they are not usually quite as accurate/stable at taking left and right measurement's as having 2 independent sets of sensors because of how they work but its way more accurate than a single.