I never really felt like Haitham was an asshole, his words and actions always felt right to me, and familiar too. The only point I was confused on was his attitude towards Kaveh, but then a Parade of Providence came out and I just wanted to strangle Kaveh for being so self-sabotaging, and it all made sense. I also feel like the English dub did him a disservice by giving him a very arrogant tech bro vibe, while in the other dubs (CN and JP at least) he was more aloof and neutral.
This!!! Totally agree. In CN, Alhaitham is very factual, he doesn't sounds so condescending, and sassy than in the english one. I love the CN voice actor's approach far better, since his performance lines up with Alhaitham's personality perfectly. Alhaitham is not evil, or malicious, but he cares about facts far more than people's feelings. And he doesn't want intentionally hurt people, he just tells the truth.
@@ancalyme Did you read Kaveh's character stories? His problem is not that he is naive. He has a huge guilt complex, because he grew up believeing that his father died because of him. His mother pretty much neglected him emotionally, since she had severe depression. (his mother have never smiled after the death of his husband, and Kaveh was the one who had to keep her company, while she was in her dark mood) Also, Kaveh believes that he does not deserve kindness, but only mistreatment, and bad things, and he revels in pain (it's describe in his character stories) Also, Kaveh surrounds himself with people, because he absolutely terrified of being abandoned, his people pleasing tendencies (partially) come from this. And than, he has a huge empathy, and since he went trough lots of bad situation, (according to his teapot lines, he lived in abject poverty for a while, and had to give up his dignity to get by) he ca really feel other people's pain, and misfortune. (Alhaitham even called Kaveh an empath in one of the Parade of Providence cutscenes) So yeah, Kaveh is literally a mess, and a emotionally really damaged character.
I agree. I feel he was really gruff and almost abusive toward everyone, but specially toward Kavah! I realize he is very intelligent condescending and very direct, but he does seem he cares for what is right and positive.
I think one of many things with the roommate situation now that we know more, is clearly kaveh is already guilty about his debt and if haitham was letting him stay rent free I think he'd be even more guilty of the situation. Haitham seems to focus on long term solutions, but also you have just how much they know each other and what haitham has learned over the years.
Alhaitham's personality and line of thinking is quite similar to mine so i was able to understand or at least mostly understand him and his intentions. This was a great video and i agree with most of what was said
Same. I definitely resonate with his way of thinking. Heck, I literally said some of the same lines just moments before he did in the game. But I have more tact than to act like that in front of people lol
I think Paimon’s reactions to Alhaithem helped me see what kind of person he his. Of course, since Traveler is friends with both him and Paimon, their interactions are like an example for us. Paimon understands Alhaithem means well, but also points out his way of expressing that comes off as harsh. I probably wouldn’t want to talk to someone like that in real life, but it is less personal when in game. NGL, if I had a friend there, I would want them to keep talking to him while I do my own thing. Honestly, I don’t know how Scarmouche grew on me, but I hope I’ll like Alhaithem’s character, similarly, in the future.
I hate how personally I take things, even in game. I mean... I get him now, I get his real intentions, but the fact of the matter is simply that people like him irl are NOT as 'secretly' nice and would be labeled 'abusive.' And that bit makes me still suspect him of being that way 😥
I think the reason Alhaitham its nicer to paimon ite because she recognizes she is ignorant in some things and asks questions while other people just go ahead with their wrong interpretations even when they start hurting others or themselves
I don’t like him any better, but my friends do and I have told them. Even some random person I introduced to the game likes him. It’s pretty awkward since I am now a Furina main and I don’t want to play Furina Dendro comps, but I have other hydro options. (I think Fischl and Furina are similar, so I would play Fischl if someone is playing Alhaithem.)
And there here I am who loved him since the beginning, and about Kaveh they are completely opposite but Alhaitham clearly cares for him, he wouldn't have let him live with him otherwise, even Kaveh has a different attitude when he is with Alhaitham, I feel like he is more himself, and it's good that Alhaitham is there he clearly wants to see Kaveh good, he doesn't want that he being so empathetic and trying to help others made him harm himself
I never hated Alhaitham, i quickly understood that he's a confident introvert that follows logic and the rules and as a logical person myself i can understand some harsh opinions he has, after all truth doesn't care about your feelings. The only real time i thought he came as an ass is when he interacts with Kaveh but that can be explained with both of them being sick of living together, which is understandable since being friends with someone is different from living with them. he never comes across as Arrogant since arrogance is to overestimating himself when he prefers to just be himself.
An interesting way to interpret Alhaitham, and make him more relatable, is to see him as autistic. Not because of the genius autistic stereotype, but due to him often coming across as rude and arrogant for not understanding social cues. Not to mention the fact he always carries those headphones around to block out sounds and his clear hyperfixation with books and learning. This is my headcanon for him anyway.
This video was very helpful. Alhaitham has been a very conflicting character for me because on the one hand I really enjoyed his presentation, I adored his first appearance and in the archon quest especially his intelligence was very appealing. However I simultaneously feel fairly confused as to how his various statements and actions were to be interpreted. I am constantly looking for clues and hints throughout the content to help me analyze his thought process. Your video really helped with that, it was insightful and intelligent especially your recognition of how much he values individualism. Some of what he says in Kaveh's hangouts proves your right. You may enjoy Kaveh's Hangouts for this reason because both of them end up far more nuanced and understandable than I thought they would. Also can I can just say I love coming across another content creator from a 'fringe nationality' in the RUclips community making quality content? When I heard your accent i decided to stick around and I'm glad I did. Keep up the good work😁
there should be an event in Inazuma where Kaveh basically manages to convince Alhaitham to go on an Inazuma vacation with him, and where Alhaitham meets Itto, and Itto is basically a big ass loud ass dumbass, while Alhaitham is intelligent and quiet. The interactions between the genious and the loud dumbass would be... funny... at lest for my humor...
I liked Alhaitham from the beginning I think he is just someone who likes to be truthful in whatever he says he was right about the fact that Kaveh shouldn't always be giving away his mora that's why he got cheated out of his mora Alhaitham is just really a very logical person
You know how some people use honesty just as an excuse to act like an a$$hole? Personally, I agreed with him pretty much all the time but I feel like he should mind his own business at times and have more tact. Nothing is more annoying than unsolicited advice lol
@@nencrows_4580 Sorry but since when are roommates who clearly disagree with you an exception?? I would never give a family member let alone some roommate any advice unless I am asked for it specifically
@@nencrows_4580 Of course you would know many people who are like this. Most humans suck and tend to be rude, especially when they butt into how others live their lives. But just because the majority do that does not mean it's a correct thing to do lmao
Oh yay someone who had the same initial reaction to alhaitham as meee truthfully i count myself among the people who share a similar thought process as alhaitham, but despite that what made him so grating to me at first was how he seemingly didnt have any real flaws. like, whats more annoying than someone who's right about everything all the time? until you see him talk to kaveh and then suddenly its like all of his humanity became evident at once. that was what finally made me interested in understanding him past a surface level. even then it still took a long time for me to finally conclude that actually hes not a bad dude and i dont feel the need to bully him constantly LOLL
I love analyzing different types of characters, so I was on Alhaitham's side from the beginning, even when everyone was treating him suspicious jasjaj The good old 'tism making everyone misunderstand him. But I fell in love since we got more information about his relationship with Kaveh! I was on the ship from the board notes because why would this man who values his comfort so much have a roommate? the way he supports him is all you have to know to understand that he's not an idiot who doesn't care about anyone but himself!
Somethimes I feel that people like to make Alhaitham nicer than he is. We've come far from the "psycho" Alhaitham, or 'autist" Alhaitham, which were pretty popular interpretation of the character. (tho I really feel people went overboard about how nice Alhaitham is) Yes, he is not a cruel, or evil person, but he is so rational, that he often hurts people. He is an egoist, and individualist. And while this philosophy has it's merits, it has it drawbacks too (which the game fails to show us).. Somethimes he doesn't notice the needs, or suffering of other people, or even if he does he simply ignores it. The Port Ormos message board were used by not merchants (you were wrong in that regard), but ship builders/workers, who maintained the merchant ships, which docked in the port. Since these people were old, they got their money by teaching younger people their craft, and experience. But since everything was put on the Akasha, no one needed their experience, their knowledge any more. They were very desperate, because of their age they couldn't adjust to the new technology, the Akasha, and they couldn't do phisical labor any more, again because they were old. Kaveh was the only one who helped these people, who were exploited by their 'government. their knowledge was taken away, and made available for everyone. The knowledge they gathered trough decades of hard work and experience, was suddenly on the Akasha, and they didn't even got any compensation for it. As they said, these people had no way of helping themselves, and according to Alhaitham, they should have lived their remaining days/years in poverty, or on the charity of others. There are gaps in Alhaitham's perception of the world, and he is aware of them. (this is why he needs Kaveh as his intellectual mirror) Also there is a line of Alhaitham recounting the tale of how Kaveh was scammed. But if you read his dialogue, you'll realize that something is not adding up in his line. He says that Kaveh bought keychains because the vendor told him he would spend the money to buy food for starving children. According to Alhaitham, this action of Kaveh was foolish, because in Sumeru even the healthcare is free. But how does free healthcare relates to children in poverty being fed? And we know from some quests, that there are a lots of starving children in Sumeru, esp in the desert area. From this line it seems like in certain areas, Alhaitham is very ignorant. And yes, he can be a jerk with Kaveh, and he does it to help him, but it doesn't mean that his method is good, or it's gonna help. If you read Kaveh's story, it's evident that this method failed in the past regarding Kaveh. When they were students, Alhaitham wanted to warn Kaveh about the fact that his altruistc behaviour, and his idealism will lead him down on a path of ruin, and used Kaveh's most hidden, shameful secret against him (the guilt he feels because of the death of his father) during the argument. And this moment ruined their friendship to an extent that Kaveh still can't call him a friend, even decades later. Also, at the last conversation of the event, at Aaru village, (where Alhaitham was reading Sachin's research) he pretty much admitted, that he would walk over anyone just to reach his goals. Also, Alhaitham talks about Kaveh a lot, because Alhaitham is very emotionally unavailable, and while he talks about his roomate, he doesn't have to talk about himself. Also, according to Nahida, Alhaitham sees the majority of the people as defective. She can read minds, don't think that she would misinterpret Alhaitham this bad.
I feel like you're intentionally misinterpreting some things. Alhaitham has high emotional intelligence, For example: during archon's quest in Aaru village, he understood the lady's fear of telling us the truth. He tasked us to speak with no prejudice and understand why the lady didn't want to divulge the information at first. He obviously understands the struggles and isn't ignorant to them but what is he supposed to do? The Port Ormos message board isn't about how Alhaitham is bad for criticizing the workers and Kaveh is a good person for giving them a job. The argument is clearly about longevity. Yes, what Kaveh does is nice but it only temporarily fixes the situation. And what after work? Is Kaveh constantly going to have to find new work? They themselves mention their mastery is getting replaced by new technology, and with Kaveh helping them they are just falling behind further. And while Alhaithams idea is much more riskier, in the long run, it could pay off more as they won't need to rely on the goodwill of other people to survive. Both options are not really good and there's no clear winner, and that's how most conversations with Kaveh and Alhaitham go. "As they said, these people had no way of helping themselves, and according to Alhaitham, they should have lived their remaining days/years in poverty, or on the charity of others. " I have no idea how you reached this, Alhaitham never implies something like that. He says "I wish you could do less meaningless things. Some people will succeed and some will fall, that's how the world works. Why interfere with it just to act like a goody-two-shoes?" which is a normal sentiment. People cannot just sit on their asses and ask for help constantly. On the other hand, it's Kaveh directly who will workers depend on, or " on the charity of others" as you said. Both Alhaitham and Kaveh are extremes to each other. Alhaithams philosophy isn't perfect but neither is Kavehs, but people rather prefer people who help others, which could include them. This sacrificial nature is often glamorized, but it has consequences as you can often see in Kavehs story. I'm not saying either of them is inherently better. The best scenario would be both of them in balance. We have absolutely no idea if the stand was a scam or not, but honestly,y I really doubt Alhaitham would just say that without fact-checking. The line "This is Sumeru, where even healthcare is free." even healthcare, so I deduct they have some services for less privileged people. But of course, some people just fall through the cracks or maybe the system doesn't exist at all. There's also the issue with the desert and the whole racism. At the same time, how is going to help the problem of buying a few keychains? A dozen kids will get their meal and then what about the next day? There's a system that needs help. Wouldn't it be better for Kaveh to personally give money to families that need it instead of buying some keychains? He goes to the desert enough for projects. "Alhaitham is very ignorant" he also goes to the desert and out of Sumeru city often, I doubt observant person like him wouldn't notice children starving. How else is Alhaitham supposed to help Kaveh? Kaveh has a lot of friends, but we barely see them critiquing Kaveh for his dangerous behaviour, and if they do it's gentle. Alhaithams method of addressing Kavehs problems during academiya wasn't good, yes, but he wasn't wrong. Kaveh's altruistic behaviour doesn't stem from being a good person but from his guilt, and that hasn't changed a bit. Imagine meeting a person with problems, and several years later they haven't gotten a bit better but even worse. Obviously being nice to him doesn't work, as Kaveh will continue his behaviour like that. Alhaitham obviously doesn't want that. Even when Alhaitham is nice to Kaveh, Kaveh often intentionally misinterprets it and searches for a hidden agenda. How did you reach out that Alhaitham is emotionally unavailable? I would even argue that Alhaitham is one of the emotionally healthiest characters in the game (he can clearly set boundaries, he is completely satisfied with himself and doesn't need to conform to others or seek validation from them, and ignoring few hiccups like Azar and grande sage position he is living his ideal life with minimal regrets). Alhaitham is a private person, so obviously he doesn't talk about himself to us. He doesn't have a problem talking about Kaveh, as he obviously holds him in high regard and enjoys their different debates. You're telling me Kaveh, who refuses to even mention Alhaithams name is in a better state? As mentioned, Alhaitham is egoist and individualist. I interpret Nahida's line about him as he hates "group thinking", aka he wants everyone to think for themselves instead of conforming to what the majority thinks. It's not exactly a bad sentiment, as in we often see in media how masses can be easily influenced into a cult-like thinking. Again, nothing that's clearly good or bad. We all should have individual thinking, but at the same time it's our similarities that unites us together. Nahida is obviously for the latter and leans more into Kaveh philosophies, so obviously views Alhaithams in a bad light. It's a really weird line as Nahida usually views things objectively but here is specifically against Alhaitham because their views just doesnt align? I would argue that Alhaitham is usually made much meaner in the fandom. Look at how he talks about Nilou, Dehya and Tighnari. During the Archon quest, he was really respectful towards the girls. His ideology isn't perfect, which is mentioned by himself and other characters. There's also Dainsleif mentions in collected miscellany how his ideology wouldn't work outside the life his living, but his not living that life, is he? Hope I didn't come across as rude or anything, but I often see these points and they are starting to frustrate me. Hope you have a nice day =)
That healthcare line was a mistranslation. It's supposed to be something closer to welfare, and he was pointing out to Kaveh that if someone was talking about starving children in the middle of the market it was likely a scam, because Sumeru is a welfare state so that guy could just go to the mahamatra.
Regarding Nahida, Alhaitham's English lines and voice acting are generally more harsh than the other languages. He sees the normie-ness of normies as a sort of birth defect but doesn't look down on them, just acknowledges that normies will be normies and he'd rather not deal with that. He's rather kind and polite when dealing with them (as you can see in his story quest). It's also not like he expects everyone to be really smart, as you can see from his attitude towards Dehya.
@@ancalyme But even if it's mistranslation, there are still a lots of starving children in Sumeru. Alhaitham doesn't think it's their responsability to do anything, because there is free "welfare/health care". This line reveals a lots of things about Alhaitham's line of thinking, and it's in tandem with his individualist philosophy/world view.
@@ancalyme Yes, he was very kind with that person who escaped the hivemind (in his quest), and validated him, and his feelings. But he mostly did it to later infect the hivemind with doubt, fear greed, ambition etc. :) He told Iliyas that he should have been a lower number based on his abilities to make the people of the hive mind question their ranks, and to awake their ambition, to be higher. He didn't give those compliments free, no strings attached. As I wrote in my previous comment, Alhaitham is not cruel, not evil. But he simply doesn't care about people, and most of the times, he benefits from it if he's kind/helps with someone. Also, as he said in his story quest, he doesn't see him above others, and doesn't put himself on a pedestal. But his line of thinking is still arrogant, because he believes he needs no one, and believes he will be a able to survive and thrive only relying on his own strength.
I never once thought that Alhaitham was a jerk, only Kaveh. Alhaitham is mostly minding his own business while Kaveh is always arguing and picking up fights with him.
Both are jerks. Kaveh is more nicer to us though and sweet. Especially in his hangout quest. Alhaitham is annoyingly smart but he has a nice side to him.. He also said some nice things about Kaveh in Kaveh's hangout. (Kinda)
@ICanBeYourFries I have to disagree about Kaveh. His kindness feels kinda forced and fake to me, he does good deeds more due to his own internal feelings of guilt than because of genuine kindness. Thoma acts nice and sounds like a generally better person than him. I feel like Thoma is indeed a kind person. But I can't bring myself to like Kaveh like him. Sure Kaveh is not rude all the time, but his personality doesn't sit well with me. I still remember when we we first meet him in Alhaitham's home, when Alhaitham invited us in, and the first thing Kaveh asks from us is if Alhaitham had PAID US to pretend to be his friends. A very mean and rude thing to say to someone you've just met. Yeah, Kaveh to me is a jerk, sorry.
@@okitasan4396 kaveh's weird behaviors are almost always related to his neuroses about his reputation, especially when it comes to the knowledge that he's in debt and living with alhaitham getting out to others. alhaitham know's this, doesn't care, and invited the traveler over without warning to kaveh, so of course he was on edge. is it reasonable? no, but it is predictable. we know kaveh is impulsive, speaking his mind without thinking and can make ridiculous leaps of logic when he's emotional, which he was. none of this negates his kindness, which is genuine regardless of whether you believe it to be or not. not all of his acts of kindness are products of his guilt, only the extreme ones that come at his own expense.
![Dr. Ratio & Alhaitham are NOT THE SAME: Character Analysis [Philosophical Influences]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YnJZMGz_SB8/mqdefault.jpg)
I never really felt like Haitham was an asshole, his words and actions always felt right to me, and familiar too.
The only point I was confused on was his attitude towards Kaveh, but then a Parade of Providence came out and I just wanted to strangle Kaveh for being so self-sabotaging, and it all made sense.
I also feel like the English dub did him a disservice by giving him a very arrogant tech bro vibe, while in the other dubs (CN and JP at least) he was more aloof and neutral.
You wanted to strangle Kaveh for being mentally ill 😭 Classic Alhaitham fan indeed
@@PichuElric Being naive is not a mental illness wtf
This!!!
Totally agree. In CN, Alhaitham is very factual, he doesn't sounds so condescending, and sassy than in the english one.
I love the CN voice actor's approach far better, since his performance lines up with Alhaitham's personality perfectly.
Alhaitham is not evil, or malicious, but he cares about facts far more than people's feelings. And he doesn't want intentionally hurt people, he just tells the truth.
@@ancalyme Did you read Kaveh's character stories? His problem is not that he is naive.
He has a huge guilt complex, because he grew up believeing that his father died because of him.
His mother pretty much neglected him emotionally, since she had severe depression. (his mother have never smiled after the death of his husband, and Kaveh was the one who had to keep her company, while she was in her dark mood)
Also, Kaveh believes that he does not deserve kindness, but only mistreatment, and bad things, and he revels in pain (it's describe in his character stories)
Also, Kaveh surrounds himself with people, because he absolutely terrified of being abandoned, his people pleasing tendencies (partially) come from this.
And than, he has a huge empathy, and since he went trough lots of bad situation, (according to his teapot lines, he lived in abject poverty for a while, and had to give up his dignity to get by) he ca really feel other people's pain, and misfortune. (Alhaitham even called Kaveh an empath in one of the Parade of Providence cutscenes)
So yeah, Kaveh is literally a mess, and a emotionally really damaged character.
I agree. I feel he was really gruff and almost abusive toward everyone, but specially toward Kavah! I realize he is very intelligent condescending and very direct, but he does seem he cares for what is right and positive.
I think one of many things with the roommate situation now that we know more, is clearly kaveh is already guilty about his debt and if haitham was letting him stay rent free I think he'd be even more guilty of the situation.
Haitham seems to focus on long term solutions, but also you have just how much they know each other and what haitham has learned over the years.
Alhaitham's personality and line of thinking is quite similar to mine so i was able to understand or at least mostly understand him and his intentions. This was a great video and i agree with most of what was said
Same. I definitely resonate with his way of thinking. Heck, I literally said some of the same lines just moments before he did in the game. But I have more tact than to act like that in front of people lol
@@j.j.juggernaut9709 same lol
Explain yourself rn 🔪
@@PichuElric he thinks like i do basically
I think Paimon’s reactions to Alhaithem helped me see what kind of person he his. Of course, since Traveler is friends with both him and Paimon, their interactions are like an example for us. Paimon understands Alhaithem means well, but also points out his way of expressing that comes off as harsh. I probably wouldn’t want to talk to someone like that in real life, but it is less personal when in game. NGL, if I had a friend there, I would want them to keep talking to him while I do my own thing. Honestly, I don’t know how Scarmouche grew on me, but I hope I’ll like Alhaithem’s character, similarly, in the future.
I hate how personally I take things, even in game. I mean... I get him now, I get his real intentions, but the fact of the matter is simply that people like him irl are NOT as 'secretly' nice and would be labeled 'abusive.' And that bit makes me still suspect him of being that way 😥
actually, Alhaitham reminds me of my bff.
I think the reason Alhaitham its nicer to paimon ite because she recognizes she is ignorant in some things and asks questions while other people just go ahead with their wrong interpretations even when they start hurting others or themselves
I don’t like him any better, but my friends do and I have told them. Even some random person I introduced to the game likes him. It’s pretty awkward since I am now a Furina main and I don’t want to play Furina Dendro comps, but I have other hydro options. (I think Fischl and Furina are similar, so I would play Fischl if someone is playing Alhaithem.)
And there here I am who loved him since the beginning, and about Kaveh they are completely opposite but Alhaitham clearly cares for him, he wouldn't have let him live with him otherwise, even Kaveh has a different attitude when he is with Alhaitham, I feel like he is more himself, and it's good that Alhaitham is there he clearly wants to see Kaveh good, he doesn't want that he being so empathetic and trying to help others made him harm himself
THE DESCRIPTION IS SO REAL I used to dislike him so much exactly because of that but now that i know him better he's one of my favourites
I never hated Alhaitham, i quickly understood that he's a confident introvert that follows logic and the rules and as a logical person myself i can understand some harsh opinions he has, after all truth doesn't care about your feelings. The only real time i thought he came as an ass is when he interacts with Kaveh but that can be explained with both of them being sick of living together, which is understandable since being friends with someone is different from living with them. he never comes across as Arrogant since arrogance is to overestimating himself when he prefers to just be himself.
An interesting way to interpret Alhaitham, and make him more relatable, is to see him as autistic. Not because of the genius autistic stereotype, but due to him often coming across as rude and arrogant for not understanding social cues. Not to mention the fact he always carries those headphones around to block out sounds and his clear hyperfixation with books and learning. This is my headcanon for him anyway.
This video was very helpful. Alhaitham has been a very conflicting character for me because on the one hand I really enjoyed his presentation, I adored his first appearance and in the archon quest especially his intelligence was very appealing. However I simultaneously feel fairly confused as to how his various statements and actions were to be interpreted. I am constantly looking for clues and hints throughout the content to help me analyze his thought process.
Your video really helped with that, it was insightful and intelligent especially your recognition of how much he values individualism. Some of what he says in Kaveh's hangouts proves your right. You may enjoy Kaveh's Hangouts for this reason because both of them end up far more nuanced and understandable than I thought they would.
Also can I can just say I love coming across another content creator from a 'fringe nationality' in the RUclips community making quality content? When I heard your accent i decided to stick around and I'm glad I did.
Keep up the good work😁
I like your analysis, I think you have a lot of good points here! I've been trying to understand some, and this was really helpful! Thank you!
there should be an event in Inazuma where Kaveh basically manages to convince Alhaitham to go on an Inazuma vacation with him, and where Alhaitham meets Itto, and Itto is basically a big ass loud ass dumbass, while Alhaitham is intelligent and quiet.
The interactions between the genious and the loud dumbass would be... funny... at lest for my humor...
I liked Alhaitham from the beginning I think he is just someone who likes to be truthful in whatever he says he was right about the fact that Kaveh shouldn't always be giving away his mora that's why he got cheated out of his mora Alhaitham is just really a very logical person
You know how some people use honesty just as an excuse to act like an a$$hole? Personally, I agreed with him pretty much all the time but I feel like he should mind his own business at times and have more tact. Nothing is more annoying than unsolicited advice lol
@@j.j.juggernaut9709 He does mind his own business lol. Kaveh is the exception cause he's his roommate.
@@nencrows_4580 Sorry but since when are roommates who clearly disagree with you an exception?? I would never give a family member let alone some roommate any advice unless I am asked for it specifically
@@j.j.juggernaut9709I know many people that are like this. So your just the type of person that wouldent. That does not apply to everyone.
@@nencrows_4580 Of course you would know many people who are like this. Most humans suck and tend to be rude, especially when they butt into how others live their lives. But just because the majority do that does not mean it's a correct thing to do lmao
Oh yay someone who had the same initial reaction to alhaitham as meee
truthfully i count myself among the people who share a similar thought process as alhaitham, but despite that what made him so grating to me at first was how he seemingly didnt have any real flaws. like, whats more annoying than someone who's right about everything all the time? until you see him talk to kaveh and then suddenly its like all of his humanity became evident at once. that was what finally made me interested in understanding him past a surface level. even then it still took a long time for me to finally conclude that actually hes not a bad dude and i dont feel the need to bully him constantly LOLL
I love analyzing different types of characters, so I was on Alhaitham's side from the beginning, even when everyone was treating him suspicious jasjaj The good old 'tism making everyone misunderstand him. But I fell in love since we got more information about his relationship with Kaveh! I was on the ship from the board notes because why would this man who values his comfort so much have a roommate? the way he supports him is all you have to know to understand that he's not an idiot who doesn't care about anyone but himself!
I hate him but I love him
I never disliked him I don’t know why but my reasoning he very reasonable
Somethimes I feel that people like to make Alhaitham nicer than he is. We've come far from the "psycho" Alhaitham, or 'autist" Alhaitham, which were pretty popular interpretation of the character. (tho I really feel people went overboard about how nice Alhaitham is)
Yes, he is not a cruel, or evil person, but he is so rational, that he often hurts people. He is an egoist, and individualist. And while this philosophy has it's merits, it has it drawbacks too (which the game fails to show us)..
Somethimes he doesn't notice the needs, or suffering of other people, or even if he does he simply ignores it.
The Port Ormos message board were used by not merchants (you were wrong in that regard), but ship builders/workers, who maintained the merchant ships, which docked in the port. Since these people were old, they got their money by teaching younger people their craft, and experience. But since everything was put on the Akasha, no one needed their experience, their knowledge any more. They were very desperate, because of their age they couldn't adjust to the new technology, the Akasha, and they couldn't do phisical labor any more, again because they were old.
Kaveh was the only one who helped these people, who were exploited by their 'government. their knowledge was taken away, and made available for everyone. The knowledge they gathered trough decades of hard work and experience, was suddenly on the Akasha, and they didn't even got any compensation for it.
As they said, these people had no way of helping themselves, and according to Alhaitham, they should have lived their remaining days/years in poverty, or on the charity of others.
There are gaps in Alhaitham's perception of the world, and he is aware of them. (this is why he needs Kaveh as his intellectual mirror)
Also there is a line of Alhaitham recounting the tale of how Kaveh was scammed. But if you read his dialogue, you'll realize that something is not adding up in his line. He says that Kaveh bought keychains because the vendor told him he would spend the money to buy food for starving children. According to Alhaitham, this action of Kaveh was foolish, because in Sumeru even the healthcare is free. But how does free healthcare relates to children in poverty being fed? And we know from some quests, that there are a lots of starving children in Sumeru, esp in the desert area. From this line it seems like in certain areas, Alhaitham is very ignorant.
And yes, he can be a jerk with Kaveh, and he does it to help him, but it doesn't mean that his method is good, or it's gonna help. If you read Kaveh's story, it's evident that this method failed in the past regarding Kaveh. When they were students, Alhaitham wanted to warn Kaveh about the fact that his altruistc behaviour, and his idealism will lead him down on a path of ruin, and used Kaveh's most hidden, shameful secret against him (the guilt he feels because of the death of his father) during the argument. And this moment ruined their friendship to an extent that Kaveh still can't call him a friend, even decades later.
Also, at the last conversation of the event, at Aaru village, (where Alhaitham was reading Sachin's research) he pretty much admitted, that he would walk over anyone just to reach his goals.
Also, Alhaitham talks about Kaveh a lot, because Alhaitham is very emotionally unavailable, and while he talks about his roomate, he doesn't have to talk about himself.
Also, according to Nahida, Alhaitham sees the majority of the people as defective. She can read minds, don't think that she would misinterpret Alhaitham this bad.
I feel like you're intentionally misinterpreting some things. Alhaitham has high emotional intelligence, For example: during archon's quest in Aaru village, he understood the lady's fear of telling us the truth. He tasked us to speak with no prejudice and understand why the lady didn't want to divulge the information at first. He obviously understands the struggles and isn't ignorant to them but what is he supposed to do?
The Port Ormos message board isn't about how Alhaitham is bad for criticizing the workers and Kaveh is a good person for giving them a job. The argument is clearly about longevity. Yes, what Kaveh does is nice but it only temporarily fixes the situation. And what after work? Is Kaveh constantly going to have to find new work? They themselves mention their mastery is getting replaced by new technology, and with Kaveh helping them they are just falling behind further. And while Alhaithams idea is much more riskier, in the long run, it could pay off more as they won't need to rely on the goodwill of other people to survive. Both options are not really good and there's no clear winner, and that's how most conversations with Kaveh and Alhaitham go.
"As they said, these people had no way of helping themselves, and according to Alhaitham, they should have lived their remaining days/years in poverty, or on the charity of others. " I have no idea how you reached this, Alhaitham never implies something like that. He says "I wish you could do less meaningless things. Some people will succeed and some will fall, that's how the world works. Why interfere with it just to act like a goody-two-shoes?" which is a normal sentiment. People cannot just sit on their asses and ask for help constantly. On the other hand, it's Kaveh directly who will workers depend on, or " on the charity of others" as you said.
Both Alhaitham and Kaveh are extremes to each other. Alhaithams philosophy isn't perfect but neither is Kavehs, but people rather prefer people who help others, which could include them. This sacrificial nature is often glamorized, but it has consequences as you can often see in Kavehs story. I'm not saying either of them is inherently better. The best scenario would be both of them in balance.
We have absolutely no idea if the stand was a scam or not, but honestly,y I really doubt Alhaitham would just say that without fact-checking. The line "This is Sumeru, where even healthcare is free." even healthcare, so I deduct they have some services for less privileged people. But of course, some people just fall through the cracks or maybe the system doesn't exist at all. There's also the issue with the desert and the whole racism. At the same time, how is going to help the problem of buying a few keychains? A dozen kids will get their meal and then what about the next day? There's a system that needs help. Wouldn't it be better for Kaveh to personally give money to families that need it instead of buying some keychains? He goes to the desert enough for projects. "Alhaitham is very ignorant" he also goes to the desert and out of Sumeru city often, I doubt observant person like him wouldn't notice children starving.
How else is Alhaitham supposed to help Kaveh? Kaveh has a lot of friends, but we barely see them critiquing Kaveh for his dangerous behaviour, and if they do it's gentle. Alhaithams method of addressing Kavehs problems during academiya wasn't good, yes, but he wasn't wrong. Kaveh's altruistic behaviour doesn't stem from being a good person but from his guilt, and that hasn't changed a bit. Imagine meeting a person with problems, and several years later they haven't gotten a bit better but even worse. Obviously being nice to him doesn't work, as Kaveh will continue his behaviour like that. Alhaitham obviously doesn't want that. Even when Alhaitham is nice to Kaveh, Kaveh often intentionally misinterprets it and searches for a hidden agenda.
How did you reach out that Alhaitham is emotionally unavailable? I would even argue that Alhaitham is one of the emotionally healthiest characters in the game (he can clearly set boundaries, he is completely satisfied with himself and doesn't need to conform to others or seek validation from them, and ignoring few hiccups like Azar and grande sage position he is living his ideal life with minimal regrets). Alhaitham is a private person, so obviously he doesn't talk about himself to us. He doesn't have a problem talking about Kaveh, as he obviously holds him in high regard and enjoys their different debates. You're telling me Kaveh, who refuses to even mention Alhaithams name is in a better state?
As mentioned, Alhaitham is egoist and individualist. I interpret Nahida's line about him as he hates "group thinking", aka he wants everyone to think for themselves instead of conforming to what the majority thinks. It's not exactly a bad sentiment, as in we often see in media how masses can be easily influenced into a cult-like thinking. Again, nothing that's clearly good or bad. We all should have individual thinking, but at the same time it's our similarities that unites us together. Nahida is obviously for the latter and leans more into Kaveh philosophies, so obviously views Alhaithams in a bad light. It's a really weird line as Nahida usually views things objectively but here is specifically against Alhaitham because their views just doesnt align?
I would argue that Alhaitham is usually made much meaner in the fandom. Look at how he talks about Nilou, Dehya and Tighnari. During the Archon quest, he was really respectful towards the girls. His ideology isn't perfect, which is mentioned by himself and other characters. There's also Dainsleif mentions in collected miscellany how his ideology wouldn't work outside the life his living, but his not living that life, is he?
Hope I didn't come across as rude or anything, but I often see these points and they are starting to frustrate me. Hope you have a nice day =)
That healthcare line was a mistranslation. It's supposed to be something closer to welfare, and he was pointing out to Kaveh that if someone was talking about starving children in the middle of the market it was likely a scam, because Sumeru is a welfare state so that guy could just go to the mahamatra.
Regarding Nahida, Alhaitham's English lines and voice acting are generally more harsh than the other languages. He sees the normie-ness of normies as a sort of birth defect but doesn't look down on them, just acknowledges that normies will be normies and he'd rather not deal with that. He's rather kind and polite when dealing with them (as you can see in his story quest). It's also not like he expects everyone to be really smart, as you can see from his attitude towards Dehya.
@@ancalyme But even if it's mistranslation, there are still a lots of starving children in Sumeru. Alhaitham doesn't think it's their responsability to do anything, because there is free "welfare/health care".
This line reveals a lots of things about Alhaitham's line of thinking, and it's in tandem with his individualist philosophy/world view.
@@ancalyme Yes, he was very kind with that person who escaped the hivemind (in his quest), and validated him, and his feelings. But he mostly did it to later infect the hivemind with doubt, fear greed, ambition etc. :) He told Iliyas that he should have been a lower number based on his abilities to make the people of the hive mind question their ranks, and to awake their ambition, to be higher.
He didn't give those compliments free, no strings attached.
As I wrote in my previous comment, Alhaitham is not cruel, not evil. But he simply doesn't care about people, and most of the times, he benefits from it if he's kind/helps with someone.
Also, as he said in his story quest, he doesn't see him above others, and doesn't put himself on a pedestal. But his line of thinking is still arrogant, because he believes he needs no one, and believes he will be a able to survive and thrive only relying on his own strength.
Is it bad if i didnt look to hard in this but just enjoy alhaitham roasting everyone 😅
Hey guyssssss why dont we just spend all our effort writing an essay for school instead of alhaitham..... 😃
What's your school Major?
@@emelgalai9224 idk I'm p6 about to go to grade 7
@@sayt1056 aha
I never once thought that Alhaitham was a jerk, only Kaveh. Alhaitham is mostly minding his own business while Kaveh is always arguing and picking up fights with him.
red flag🚩
@@shenhemain Kaveh is.
Both are jerks. Kaveh is more nicer to us though and sweet. Especially in his hangout quest. Alhaitham is annoyingly smart but he has a nice side to him.. He also said some nice things about Kaveh in Kaveh's hangout. (Kinda)
@ICanBeYourFries I have to disagree about Kaveh. His kindness feels kinda forced and fake to me, he does good deeds more due to his own internal feelings of guilt than because of genuine kindness. Thoma acts nice and sounds like a generally better person than him. I feel like Thoma is indeed a kind person. But I can't bring myself to like Kaveh like him. Sure Kaveh is not rude all the time, but his personality doesn't sit well with me. I still remember when we we first meet him in Alhaitham's home, when Alhaitham invited us in, and the first thing Kaveh asks from us is if Alhaitham had PAID US to pretend to be his friends. A very mean and rude thing to say to someone you've just met. Yeah, Kaveh to me is a jerk, sorry.
@@okitasan4396 kaveh's weird behaviors are almost always related to his neuroses about his reputation, especially when it comes to the knowledge that he's in debt and living with alhaitham getting out to others. alhaitham know's this, doesn't care, and invited the traveler over without warning to kaveh, so of course he was on edge. is it reasonable? no, but it is predictable. we know kaveh is impulsive, speaking his mind without thinking and can make ridiculous leaps of logic when he's emotional, which he was. none of this negates his kindness, which is genuine regardless of whether you believe it to be or not. not all of his acts of kindness are products of his guilt, only the extreme ones that come at his own expense.
the answer is quite simple really, he has autism