I went in a different direction. After watching a Long Hunter's video on cap & ball loading, I bought rigid cork vegetable wads (like you use when making black powder brass cartridges). The wad goes tightly over the powder charge, then you place about enough BP lube to equal about an airsoft BB over the cork wad. The ball then goes OVER the lube. The cork wad sweeps the fouling out of the barrel and because it is rigid & tight it helps seal the chamber. The lube ends up in the rifling and there is enough to leave a lube star on the outside of the muzzle. Even after 60 rounds my barrel is no dirtier than a modern smokeless gun barrel and the rifling is always clear. I never expected it to work like they said but it does.
Exactly. The purpose of the lube is to keep the fouling soft and not to keep the barrel clean. Using any wad or card is going to tend to scrape the bore a bit. I do use wads (Sagebrush Outfitters) in my 1858's but rely on the lube from Big Lube bullets in my 45 colt revolvers.
I also use a dollop of lube over the wad and under the ball. It works well and isn't messy. I got that idea from this on-line reference: “Shooting the Black Powder Revolver” by John L. Fuhring www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps1.html However, as Dustin's previous video on the topic shows, lube over the ball is a far sight better than no lube!
great video. In Elmer Keith book Sixguns he mentions that he learned to punch disks from felt hats and soak them in lube for cap and ball revolvers. I would say the lube wad method is historical.
@@1stminnsharpshooters341 I only have one felt hat, My Fedora, and I'm not punching wads out of it... nope. I bought 1/4" thick felt from amazon (about $5 a sheet at the time) and used a 12mm punch and used my own homemade lube (50/50 beef tallow and beeswax)
@@TheStraycat74 Fair enough on not ruining your only felt hat pard. Can you send me the amazon link on your felt purchase? does your 50/50 mixture run in hot summer months? --LT
@@1stminnsharpshooters341 I would, but the last set I bought it no longer available or that seller doesn't carry them anymore... just do an amazon search for 1/8th to 1/4 inch felt sheets. I use a 12mm hole punch/gasket maker that I got for cheap (because the 44cal wad cutters I found were three times as much). bees wax 'pearls' and tallow can also be gotten off of amazon. IF I had an affiliates Link, I'd post them there, but I haven't heard back from Amazon about my information request to do just that... yet. also, posting links on other peoples videos is bad juju.
No, no bore butter is no fun at all. You should make your own lube by ordering things off the internet and stuff you get at the hardware and grocery stores. Put it all in your wifes best pot and melt it all down. Now you'll probably burn a few batches along with the pot but it's all in the name of science at this point and you must press on. When you're finished, yes, the final product is something you could have bought in the local gun store in the first place, like bore butter, but you will be the talk of the range as your gun smokes and smells like burnt socks. Happy shooting my friend stick with what you're doing because it's working lol
I was happy that I found this video. Haven't shot my old 1858 for many years but I'm itching to shoot it again now. I will try to get some of the Cabela's wads first though. They look like a great product for shooting black powder revolvers. Thanks' Duston for this video. It was very helpful.
You bet I'm buying some. Thanks for sharing this product. I kinda gave up black powder pistol because of the mess. Seems the wads make all clean up easier.
I've found wads to be just more convenient than over bullet lube, and after seeing your video I'm glad to know they actually do help with accuracy. Good stuff!
I wouldnt have thought the wads would do so well and cleaning, because its it's disk I'd except it to tumble over when goings through the barrel and not making full contact
I'm also a proponent of the Cabela's wads because they bare thicker and loaded with lubricant to the point that after seating them in the chambers there is a hefty amount of residue squeegeed off them around the perimeter of the chamber opening. I've tried wonder wads and a couple of other popular wads and did not like them that thin.
Right on. I use the same and with a 42 gr charge (best accuracy for my gun) I stack two and place the ball with a bb sized measure of lube under the ball. My Uberti Walker shoots 1.5 in groups at 25 yards using this method.
The lubed wads are good if your shooting right away, but if you store your guns with a lubed wad, the oils from the lubed wads seeps into the gun powder and will prevent it from firing. Bore butter is great, but you also have to be shooting right away cause it will melt out quick, especially on a hot day.
I like the new format! I would like to point out though that black firearms do not film well on white backgrounds, the white overwhelms the camera, it shuts the aperture down resulting in the firearm appearing as a black silhouette, details of it are lost. A grey or tan background works better.
Dustin, There is another method of loading of the revolver's cylinder. This method is similar to the method that is used in cartridge loading. After dropping the powder you place a fiber wad over the powder and compress that with the loading lever, then to place a measured amount of soft lube over top of the fiber wad, and on top of the lube you seat the round ball or conical and use the loading lever to press the ball or bullet to touch the fiber wad. Of course this method can be modified again with the addition of soft lube being placed over top of the loaded cylinder if the ball isn't coated in lube, but if you use a bullet with grease grooves then this added lube would not be needed.
Since my last comment I modified my wads, I put a was made from the liners seperators from wine cases, bottom was goes in dry, ball, then a was scraped on the lube put in lube down, this works well and no mess carrying a loaded gun
Man, what? Are you drinkin the wine too? I really want to knownwhat your tryin to say here cause incarry mine loaded everywhere and am completly open to new/better ideas.
There certainl is a noticable difference in the sound. I've owned any number of handguns, and they have a "POW" sound. Black powder pistols have more of a "BOOM". I love it!
It might be superfluous & redundant, but I ALWAYS use both. I was doing that to prevent chain fires, as well as lube. I'm not sure it's necessary to prev ent chain fires, but I just got in the habit of doing it. I do use OxYoke Revolver Wonder Seals, over the ball, and wad. Thanks for sharing your research with us.
If you grease the nipple threads, use tight fitting caps, and use tight fitting balls/bullets that shave a ring of lead off when seated, you will never have chainfires. You only need a wad or paste lube, not both.
I always used wool-felt wads with RBs wit great success. If you plan to have the gun loaded for a long time before shooting it (days or more) them a paper or thin card disc over the powder can help with possible charge contamination, especially in hot weather...
I been using pre-lubed wads for a long time but place them over the bullet. With Hodgen 777 almost no fouling and accuracy seems the same as a wad under the ball. Works for me!
I saw some video on RUclips where the side blast removed lube from the adjacent chambers when the gun fired. It made me consider lubricated wads as the more reliable option if the charge happens to seat the round close to the mouth or if the lube in question is especially soft (as with someone using Crisco instead of a stiffer tallow/beeswax mix). The sixth round would have it the worst, being exposed to the side blast twice (from the first chamber as well as the fifth). Then again, it would be kind of hard for the last round in the gun to set off a chain fire...
I just squirt a little bore butter into the chambers, works well for me, quicker and is less messy, plus i dont get stuff on my hands like i would with even the wads
Remingtons just love grease! Lots of grease! Don't get me wrong, the wads work okay. But grease seems to ease off the cylinder jamming a bit. But then, so does a well placed dollop of spit!
Howdy Dustin, I had a couple questions. 1. I noticed you did an accuracy test, but what I’d like to know if the wadding compromises or improves projectile speed? 2. Can a wad be used in tangent with lube? If so, will this keep the bore even cleaner than just using 1 lubrication method? 3. Since Black Powder Revolver loads can still be fired if stored for months, and hypothetically years if stored in proper conditions and sealed tight with a traditional lube load...would a Wad load compromise a stored load? The reason being that the lube is compressed inside the cylinder with the black powder, as opposed to the traditional external Lubricated load. Questions like these always buzz in my mind. Can’t be helped when watching black powder content. Sorry for the long read, love the vids, keep em comin, and I’ll keep watchin!
I have heard of instances of the oils and beeswax leaching from wads and ruining the powder in the chamber long term. For anything other than immediate use I'd seat the ball right over the powder. Back in the day caps could be sealed on the nipple before travelling in wet weather. This would be a good long term (loaded) storage option
Seems pretty simple. Each wad after the first shot will also clean the barrel as well as lubricate it. Just bought my first Colt Navy. Going to go with wads and Slip 2000. Wish me luck.
No lube is necessary but if you want a good seal top off with a 12mm card was made from wine case bottle seperators, I add a lube at times by scraping the was on a 50/50 beeswax coconut oil mix by weight. If you want to keep loaded for months add the poly tubing rings made from .160 I'd poly tubing available at most home hardware stores, cut them about 1/8 " long push on the cap, I use a stick from a spring clothes pin, an then seat the cap with the stick, do not use your finger, the tubing will during around the joint of the cap and nipple. This makes a good seal. Le
I use both, I make my own wads with 100% bees wax and have a lube that is 50/50 Beeswax and olive oil. I put that in a medium syringe and put a neat coating around each ball. Just to help with lubrication, fouling and preventing chain firing!!
Lube works well on my original mod. 1849 pocket colt. Gun works better with the lube, than without lube, I also use it on my Navy colt, and my Army colt .never had any problem.🤠👍
I've always used .454 wonder wads pre lubricated an have always gotten outstanding accuracy an the benefit of having my bore seasoned an cleaned by the wad an bore butter over the chamber after its loaded, an I wonder if cabelas brand isn't made by wonder wad, as wonder wads are surprisingmy thick to.
Man I can’t wait till my priming compound and my punch comes in the mail so I can start making percussion caps. I’ve always been a conversion cylinder guy because I could never find caps but I’ve had powder and round balls for a while now I’ll be able to get the caps together soon and I’ll be able to shoot the holy powder ! 👍
Hello. Still learning. I’m going go get another bp pistol dad sold his years ago. Now me and son have them gonna put one back in pops hands. Just wondering should get buffalo that what he had. Anyway good video
Hey Dustin! I see a coach gun in your intro...have you done a video on it yet? I got a coach gun about three weeks ago and have been squirrel hunting with it for the past three Saturdays. I need to shoot a few more before I can afford to eat them...right now they're about $100 each! I've been using factory ammo, but have a few loaded up with Pyrodex and fiber wads. Will pattern them next time I get a chance. I'm interested in if the fiber wads give less dense patterns than modern plastic cup wads.
My uncle had a 1858 Army revolver that I think was a ruger reproduction. He shot it so much that he could shoot it as accurate as I shot my 6in. 586 Smith and had shot it a lot too. At 25 yards it was really good.
could it be that the heat of combustion vaporizes the lube in the wad keeping the fouling softer? I use home made wads in both .44 and .36 guns and have for a long time. Sometimes I will also put lube over the first chamber to grease the clean on the first shot of the day.bore. My lube is beef tallow and paraffin wax 50:50. I live in beef country no stinkin' sheep herders allowed! Thanks for the work Dustin I enjoy your videos.
I'm willing to bet that with the traditional method, much of the grease gets blown out of the cylinder gap, reducing its effectiveness. Some of the grease will also stick to the ball, throwing off its balance and aerodynamics. The wad will stay together when crossing the cylinder gap. It will also help pickup some lead and powder residue left behind from the previous shot while also lubricating the bore. As for accuracy, the wad will probably separate from the ball upon leaving the barrel, and if it doesn't, it may have a drag stabilization effect on the ball, similarly to how many shotgun slugs work.
The bore is rifled. Any lube on the ball will be thrown sideways into the groove once it starts spinning (and it doesn't start spinning until it crosses past the forcing cone). Aerodynamic forces will strip away a wad from the bullet immediately upon exit. Unless you mistakenly soaked the wads in horse glue.
I collect the nests of "paper wasps" cut them 3-4 layers thick in 3" squares lay on the muzzle under the lubed patch and drive the ball through. (4 loads per patch) carry them in a wallet. Never get a burn through as the loading process cuts the patch into the groves.
It is possible the heat of the powder burning vaporizes the lube in the wad and that mixes with the fouling. Lube over the ball is like putting your socks on over your shoes. Thanks for the test your hard work is appreciated..
Lube over the ball smears the walls of the bore with a layer of hot oil _before_ the smoke and fouling comes along and coats the metal. Like greasing a griddle before the pancakes go on.
My question is can I put a felt wad on top of the ball like the traditional method of lube on top. I have to go out and try just had not used wads so I am waiting for my order.
I'm new, I bought an 1851 navy, I bought a little bit of everything, wads, lube, I haven't even fired yet. Just watching videos and waiting for nicer weather. I'm gonna try both. The lube softens the fouling and the wad helps push it through the barrel right?
Have you tried making a paper cartridge with an unlined corker felt wad? Also, what is the fowling difference between a powder, lined wad, ball session vs. a paper cartridge dipped/lubed ball session?
So what about the wads that go on top of the bullets? I wonder who uses them. I see them in 'starter kits' and then never see anyone use them in videos. My friend just ordered a new BP revolver and starter kit. I am trying to learn all of this so I can help him. Thanks for the good videos.
@@GunsOfTheWest thanks for the reply. I see they call the second kind "seals" so I assume they use the wad under the bullet and then seal the cylinders with the seals. rmcoxyoke.com/product/ox-yoke-originals-revolver-reload-kit/ Thanks again for the videos and the quick reply.
Could you do a video on the brass “Colt Style bullet molds” like you know, the 2 cavity ones from Pedersoli . Since there aren’t any videos of people casting bullets with them on RUclips, and since they’ve historically came in cased colt sets?
Those brass molds are mostly for show! None that I ever had cast a perfect ball or bullet and not the correct diameter for sure. Save your money and purchase Lyman or Lee or RCBS set.
Thanks Dustin! I am just now getting into making .36 cal paper cartridges for my home-made Manley Cartridge Former (as you know, Cliff Manley passed so they aren’t available). I don’t see anybody incorporating them into the cartridges....have you?
Over time, it can. I actually prefer the other lube method for that very reason. If you’re just loading and shooting for fun at the range though, the wads are fine.
I have a question. Why are you using full powder charges? Shooting full loads makes the gun get dirty really fast. I also see you not centering the sprue on your cast bullets.
I don’t want to lighten the loads just to keep the gun a tiny bit cleaner. It will get plenty dirty either way. At this distance, I’m not overly worried about the spruce being exactly centered because I haven’t seen a discernible difference in accuracy. Also, the loading port on this gun knocks the ball around a bit when it’s loaded anyway, so it’s pretty hard to keep it perfectly centered.
@@GunsOfTheWest , yeah loading rods do that. I use swagged round balls as there is no need to fuss with them. Is your 1858 .451 or .454 or .457 diameter. My CVA is a .451 and the Navy Arms(uberty) is a .454.
@@GunsOfTheWest , right because most of the latter made BP revolvers all use .454. just for fun i tried to load .454s in the CVA that required .451. on the third loads (18 shots) it was so hard to load I was afraid i'd break the loading rod. As the gun gets dirty it just gets harder and harder to load without the right ammo. Long ago there was also differences in the 36 cal as well with .350 to .380. I have owned both and still have the steel molds.
I’m a bit lost. I thought it was muzzleloading 101 it’s powder, patch, ball every time. But when you used lube you skipped the patch. What am I missing. Another video I saw elsewhere was powder lube the top then ram the ball in. So what is correct ?
Cap & ball revolvers actually don’t load like muzzle loading rifles, so there’s no patch involved. You can use a lubed wad between the powder and ball or just apply lube over the ball after it’s loaded.
There is a major difference between a muzzleloading rifle and a muzzleloading revolver. The projectile in the rifle has to be rammed down the full length of the barrel, and you have to push it past the rifling grooves the whole way through. When you load a revolver, though, you ram the projectile into a chamber that's already behind the barrel and you bypass the rifling grooves entirely-- the first time the shot ever engages the rifling is during the act of firing. For this reason alone, muzzleloading rifles use an undersized projectile and the patch acts as a discarding sabot that closes the gap between lead and the rifling grooves. In a revolver, you use an oversized ball that gets shaved down to the perfect size for the barrel, so a patch isn't needed as there is no gap between the bullet size and the barrel bore diameter. Wads in a revolver were originally intended as a gap filler to make sure the powder gets compacted if the gun's built-in ramrod can't go down far enough. But now they're more likely to be used as a lube delivery component instead.
Thought I ordered your lube the other day but haven't received it maybe something happened and didn't order idk but I just went to sight to order percussion cap tool and was gonna grab lube it said was out of stock when you expecting more ?
I actually have more already and I just updated the website. Here’s the direct link: gunsoftheweststore.com/products/black-powder-bullet-lube-4-oz Thanks for your business!
Have you ever tried under the ball grease cookies? Smoken Gun was active on a lot of BP forums before his passing. This was his I want to go hooting lube pill mix. One stick paraffin wax, 1/4 wax toilet ring and for hot climates like ours three tablespoons olive oil. Melt it all together and pour it in a dollar store baking pan an 1/8 inch thick. let cool and punch out disks using HF hollow punches. You just put them over the powder add a ball and you are good to go.
I’ve heard of this method too. I think as long as your mixture raises the melting point to a sufficient temperature, this won’t negatively impact your powder since it won’t melt and mix with the powder charge.
What I have learned, weird as it sounds is that the wad acts as a gas seal keeping the pressure even. From your video, I can see where fact is demonstrated....
Well I bought 6 yards of felt, make my own lube and Harbor Freight offers a hole punch kit for $9, I no longer wait for shelves. Well Primers/Caps yes I need those back on shelf, $20 for 100 caps and $20 on a "Hazmat Fee" to rich this poor old of no privledge
I always use wads. I shoot .44 and there's always enough room for a wad. Only in say a standard Colt cylinder does it get a bit tight but you can still get 30 grains. Remington or the Walker there's no issue at all. Bore butter and the like is just too messy for my liking and it's a myth that it'll prevent a chainfire
I agree about the Bore Butter. The only time I’ll use it as a bullet lube is in the cold of winter when it’s not runny. This lube I’m using is very firm. Thanks for watching!
@6 6 sure didn't prevent my chainfire The only bloody time I decided to use lube over the chamber mouth rather than wads was the only time I've ever experienced a chainfire Sounds like whatever gun you're describing someone isn't putting the proper size bullet in it The proper size projectile is all it needs to seal the front of the chamber. Colt's original instruction manual for these guns never said grease up the front of the cylinder, it just said put powder and a bullet in it. I submit the majority of people's chain fires are actually coming from the rear with loose or generally ill fitting caps
I use the wads. Easier, quicker and does the same job of preventing chain firing. Haven't had it happen yet using wads anyway not that it should ever happen using the right ball
I'm planning on using the pre lubricated wads. Can they soak or make wet the black powder causing it to not fire or become less effective if stored in this manner for long (a month or so) durrations?
You should not use a lubricated wad in a cartridge because the grease will migrate over time into the powder. A lubricated wad works most reliably if you're going to shoot right away. If the gun is going to be carried or stored for a while, you should keep the powder dry and apply grease to the front of the chamber instead of in a wad.
Check out the Guns of the West store here: gunsoftheweststore.com
I went in a different direction. After watching a Long Hunter's video on cap & ball loading, I bought rigid cork vegetable wads (like you use when making black powder brass cartridges). The wad goes tightly over the powder charge, then you place about enough BP lube to equal about an airsoft BB over the cork wad. The ball then goes OVER the lube. The cork wad sweeps the fouling out of the barrel and because it is rigid & tight it helps seal the chamber. The lube ends up in the rifling and there is enough to leave a lube star on the outside of the muzzle. Even after 60 rounds my barrel is no dirtier than a modern smokeless gun barrel and the rifling is always clear. I never expected it to work like they said but it does.
Exactly. The purpose of the lube is to keep the fouling soft and not to keep the barrel clean. Using any wad or card is going to tend to scrape the bore a bit. I do use wads (Sagebrush Outfitters) in my 1858's but rely on the lube from Big Lube bullets in my 45 colt revolvers.
I also use a dollop of lube over the wad and under the ball. It works well and isn't messy. I got that idea from this on-line reference: “Shooting the Black Powder Revolver” by John L. Fuhring www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps1.html However, as Dustin's previous video on the topic shows, lube over the ball is a far sight better than no lube!
Thanks for the info.
I just ordered a Pietta 1858 Remington New Model Army Black Powder Revolver, in .44 caliber with a 8" barrel.
great video. In Elmer Keith book Sixguns he mentions that he learned to punch disks from felt hats and soak them in lube for cap and ball revolvers. I would say the lube wad method is historical.
Dude badass idea haha spend tho if your using the real thing which is just pressed rabbit /beaver or any fine furr 😃
@6 6 I'd done this - using and old felt hat as a source for making felt wads at ruclips.net/video/Dp40RSHTsOE/видео.html
@@1stminnsharpshooters341 I only have one felt hat, My Fedora, and I'm not punching wads out of it... nope.
I bought 1/4" thick felt from amazon (about $5 a sheet at the time) and used a 12mm punch and used my own homemade lube (50/50 beef tallow and beeswax)
@@TheStraycat74 Fair enough on not ruining your only felt hat pard. Can you send me the amazon link on your felt purchase? does your 50/50 mixture run in hot summer months? --LT
@@1stminnsharpshooters341 I would, but the last set I bought it no longer available or that seller doesn't carry them anymore... just do an amazon search for 1/8th to 1/4 inch felt sheets. I use a 12mm hole punch/gasket maker that I got for cheap (because the 44cal wad cutters I found were three times as much). bees wax 'pearls' and tallow can also be gotten off of amazon.
IF I had an affiliates Link, I'd post them there, but I haven't heard back from Amazon about my information request to do just that... yet.
also, posting links on other peoples videos is bad juju.
I prefer to use Bore Butter. I find that it keeps fouling soft and keeps things working smoothly.
No, no bore butter is no fun at all. You should make your own lube by ordering things off the internet and stuff you get at the hardware and grocery stores. Put it all in your wifes best pot and melt it all down. Now you'll probably burn a few batches along with the pot but it's all in the name of science at this point and you must press on. When you're finished, yes, the final product is something you could have bought in the local gun store in the first place, like bore butter, but you will be the talk of the range as your gun smokes and smells like burnt socks. Happy shooting my friend stick with what you're doing because it's working lol
I tried bore butter and it just got runny in the heat🤷
My favorite BP revolver! Well, the only one I own.......currently! I use the Cabelas wads, I like 'em. Great video!
The Rem NMA is my favorite as well. It's a beautiful gun.
Thanks for watching!
I was happy that I found this video.
Haven't shot my old 1858 for many years but I'm itching to shoot it again now.
I will try to get some of the Cabela's wads first though.
They look like a great product for shooting black powder revolvers.
Thanks' Duston for this video. It was very helpful.
Wads are handy for taking up cylinder space
in moderate / plinker loads for Brass frame fun shoots
You bet I'm buying some. Thanks for sharing this product. I kinda gave up black powder pistol because of the mess. Seems the wads make all clean up easier.
I have never used wads before but I’ll have to give it a try especially since it doesn’t look as goopy. Thanks for the info
felt wads were good enough for Elmer Keith, so they're good enough for me. Another great video Dustin!
I use a 12mm gasket punch for my home made lubed wads. a hair bigger than .44, but close enough for plinking
I totally agree with this. I've always found that wads work better. I even share about that in my video review of my uberti 1860 army revolver
Yea no thank you. Hate wads.
Really enjoying the content. Specially as I'm just getting in to BP shooting.
Thanks for watching!
Look at the recoil on that puppy! Glorious.
Gotta love it! Thanks, Santee!
Yup, like my Ruger Old Army when I top it off.
I've found wads to be just more convenient than over bullet lube, and after seeing your video I'm glad to know they actually do help with accuracy. Good stuff!
BlackPowderShooter 44 well you can’t store it for a long time, due to lube from the patches contaminating the bp
Good information, thanks for posting!👍
I wouldnt have thought the wads would do so well and cleaning, because its it's disk I'd except it to tumble over when goings through the barrel and not making full contact
I'm also a proponent of the Cabela's wads because they bare thicker and loaded with lubricant to the point that after seating them in the chambers there is a hefty amount of residue squeegeed off them around the perimeter of the chamber opening. I've tried wonder wads and a couple of other popular wads and did not like them that thin.
I agree. Those thin wads are almost the same as using nothing. Thanks for watching!
Right on. I use the same and with a 42 gr charge (best accuracy for my gun) I stack two and place the ball with a bb sized measure of lube under the ball. My Uberti Walker shoots 1.5 in groups at 25 yards using this method.
The lubed wads are good if your shooting right away, but if you store your guns with a lubed wad, the oils from the lubed wads seeps into the gun powder and will prevent it from firing. Bore butter is great, but you also have to be shooting right away cause it will melt out quick, especially on a hot day.
I like the new format! I would like to point out though that black firearms do not film well on white backgrounds, the white overwhelms the camera, it shuts the aperture down resulting in the firearm appearing as a black silhouette, details of it are lost. A grey or tan background works better.
Dustin, There is another method of loading of the revolver's cylinder. This method is similar to the method that is used in cartridge loading. After dropping the powder you place a fiber wad over the powder and compress that with the loading lever, then to place a measured amount of soft lube over top of the fiber wad, and on top of the lube you seat the round ball or conical and use the loading lever to press the ball or bullet to touch the fiber wad. Of course this method can be modified again with the addition of soft lube being placed over top of the loaded cylinder if the ball isn't coated in lube, but if you use a bullet with grease grooves then this added lube would not be needed.
Very interesting. Once again a great, informative vid, Dustin.
Thanks!
Since my last comment I modified my wads, I put a was made from the liners seperators from wine cases, bottom was goes in dry, ball, then a was scraped on the lube put in lube down, this works well and no mess carrying a loaded gun
Man, what? Are you drinkin the wine too? I really want to knownwhat your tryin to say here cause incarry mine loaded everywhere and am completly open to new/better ideas.
There certainl is a noticable difference in the sound. I've owned any number of handguns, and they have a "POW" sound. Black powder pistols have more of a "BOOM". I love it!
Excellent information. Thanks Dustin. Shoot on.
Great video. Thanks!
It might be superfluous & redundant, but I ALWAYS use both. I was doing that to prevent chain fires, as well as lube. I'm not sure it's necessary to prev ent chain fires, but I just got in the habit of doing it. I do use OxYoke Revolver Wonder Seals, over the ball, and wad. Thanks for sharing your research with us.
If you grease the nipple threads, use tight fitting caps, and use tight fitting balls/bullets that shave a ring of lead off when seated, you will never have chainfires. You only need a wad or paste lube, not both.
Honestly, the only problem with doing both is cost.
I always used wool-felt wads with RBs wit great success. If you plan to have the gun loaded for a long time before shooting it (days or more) them a paper or thin card disc over the powder can help with possible charge contamination, especially in hot weather...
That's why I run a dry wad on top of powder with a mix of lamb tallow and bees wax on top of the ball.
I seal each chamber over the ball with solid deer tallow.
I been using pre-lubed wads for a long time but place them over the bullet. With Hodgen 777 almost no fouling and accuracy seems the same as a wad under the ball. Works for me!
I saw some video on RUclips where the side blast removed lube from the adjacent chambers when the gun fired. It made me consider lubricated wads as the more reliable option if the charge happens to seat the round close to the mouth or if the lube in question is especially soft (as with someone using Crisco instead of a stiffer tallow/beeswax mix).
The sixth round would have it the worst, being exposed to the side blast twice (from the first chamber as well as the fifth). Then again, it would be kind of hard for the last round in the gun to set off a chain fire...
You put alot of gun greese in the chamber. I hate wads. I had a couple chain fires with wads. Never any with greese in the chambers.
I have found if your going to load and store for a time( one or two days on a hunt) which i some times do, the felt wads will contaminate your charge.
I just squirt a little bore butter into the chambers, works well for me, quicker and is less messy, plus i dont get stuff on my hands like i would with even the wads
Remingtons just love grease! Lots of grease! Don't get me wrong, the wads work okay. But grease seems to ease off the cylinder jamming a bit. But then, so does a well placed dollop of spit!
Great video!
Howdy Dustin,
I had a couple questions.
1. I noticed you did an accuracy test, but what I’d like to know if the wadding compromises or improves projectile speed?
2. Can a wad be used in tangent with lube? If so, will this keep the bore even cleaner than just using 1 lubrication method?
3. Since Black Powder Revolver loads can still be fired if stored for months, and hypothetically years if stored in proper conditions and sealed tight with a traditional lube load...would a Wad load compromise a stored load? The reason being that the lube is compressed inside the cylinder with the black powder, as opposed to the traditional external Lubricated load.
Questions like these always buzz in my mind. Can’t be helped when watching black powder content. Sorry for the long read, love the vids, keep em comin, and I’ll keep watchin!
I have heard of instances of the oils and beeswax leaching from wads and ruining the powder in the chamber long term. For anything other than immediate use I'd seat the ball right over the powder. Back in the day caps could be sealed on the nipple before travelling in wet weather. This would be a good long term (loaded) storage option
I use both wads and lube. The gun stays very clean a lot longer.
Seems pretty simple. Each wad after the first shot will also clean the barrel as well as lubricate it. Just bought my first Colt Navy. Going to go with wads and Slip 2000. Wish me luck.
Good stuff right there. Thanks 👍
No lube is necessary but if you want a good seal top off with a 12mm card was made from wine case bottle seperators, I add a lube at times by scraping the was on a 50/50 beeswax coconut oil mix by weight.
If you want to keep loaded for months add the poly tubing rings made from .160 I'd poly tubing available at most home hardware stores, cut them about 1/8 " long push on the cap, I use a stick from a spring clothes pin, an then seat the cap with the stick, do not use your finger, the tubing will during around the joint of the cap and
nipple. This makes a good seal.
Le
I use both, I make my own wads with 100% bees wax and have a lube that is 50/50 Beeswax and olive oil. I put that in a medium syringe and put a neat coating around each ball. Just to help with lubrication, fouling and preventing chain firing!!
Thank you.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Lube works well on my original mod. 1849 pocket colt. Gun works better with the lube, than without lube, I also use it on my Navy colt, and my Army colt .never had any problem.🤠👍
I've always used .454 wonder wads pre lubricated an have always gotten outstanding accuracy an the benefit of having my bore seasoned an cleaned by the wad an bore butter over the chamber after its loaded, an I wonder if cabelas brand isn't made by wonder wad, as wonder wads are surprisingmy thick to.
Would wads have the same positive effect on conicals? And would it be overkill to use a lubricated wad and lube the groves on a Lee conical?
Man I can’t wait till my priming compound and my punch comes in the mail so I can start making percussion caps. I’ve always been a conversion cylinder guy because I could never find caps but I’ve had powder and round balls for a while now I’ll be able to get the caps together soon and I’ll be able to shoot the holy powder ! 👍
Hello. Still learning. I’m going go get another bp pistol dad sold his years ago. Now me and son have them gonna put one back in pops hands. Just wondering should get buffalo that what he had. Anyway good video
Thanks for the info!
Hard to argue with store bought wads? They do seem a bit cleaner. Thumb up.
Nice test... Thanks !
Good video buddy, thumbs up ~John
I never would have guessed. How bout using some Crisco next time just for fun and see what happens?
Hey Dustin! I see a coach gun in your intro...have you done a video on it yet? I got a coach gun about three weeks ago and have been squirrel hunting with it for the past three Saturdays. I need to shoot a few more before I can afford to eat them...right now they're about $100 each! I've been using factory ammo, but have a few loaded up with Pyrodex and fiber wads. Will pattern them next time I get a chance. I'm interested in if the fiber wads give less dense patterns than modern plastic cup wads.
It’s actually a modern version of the side-by-side shotgun, but I’ll do a video on it in the future. Thanks for watching!
My uncle had a 1858 Army revolver that I think was a ruger reproduction. He shot it so much that he could shoot it as accurate as I shot my 6in. 586 Smith and had shot it a lot too. At 25 yards it was really good.
Probably a Ruger Old Army model. I've owned one for 35+ years....44 caliber. .457 diameter ball. Beautiful pistol. Long discontinued.
could it be that the heat of combustion vaporizes the lube in the wad keeping the fouling softer? I use home made wads in both .44 and .36 guns and have for a long time. Sometimes I will also put lube over the first chamber to grease the clean on the first shot of the day.bore. My lube is beef tallow and paraffin wax 50:50. I live in beef country no stinkin' sheep herders allowed!
Thanks for the work Dustin I enjoy your videos.
I'm willing to bet that with the traditional method, much of the grease gets blown out of the cylinder gap, reducing its effectiveness. Some of the grease will also stick to the ball, throwing off its balance and aerodynamics. The wad will stay together when crossing the cylinder gap. It will also help pickup some lead and powder residue left behind from the previous shot while also lubricating the bore. As for accuracy, the wad will probably separate from the ball upon leaving the barrel, and if it doesn't, it may have a drag stabilization effect on the ball, similarly to how many shotgun slugs work.
The bore is rifled. Any lube on the ball will be thrown sideways into the groove once it starts spinning (and it doesn't start spinning until it crosses past the forcing cone).
Aerodynamic forces will strip away a wad from the bullet immediately upon exit. Unless you mistakenly soaked the wads in horse glue.
I collect the nests of "paper wasps" cut them 3-4 layers thick in 3" squares lay on the muzzle under the lubed patch and drive the ball through. (4 loads per patch) carry them in a wallet. Never get a burn through as the loading process cuts the patch into the groves.
It is possible the heat of the powder burning vaporizes the lube in the wad and that mixes with the fouling. Lube over the ball is like putting your socks on over your shoes. Thanks for the test your hard work is appreciated..
Lube over the ball smears the walls of the bore with a layer of hot oil _before_ the smoke and fouling comes along and coats the metal. Like greasing a griddle before the pancakes go on.
My question is can I put a felt wad on top of the ball like the traditional method of lube on top. I have to go out and try just had not used wads so I am waiting for my order.
I use both. And I shoot a 1860 Army, 1851 Navy and a 1858 Remington all Piettas. And I can shoot 60 rounds and barrle still looks good
I'm new, I bought an 1851 navy, I bought a little bit of everything, wads, lube, I haven't even fired yet. Just watching videos and waiting for nicer weather. I'm gonna try both. The lube softens the fouling and the wad helps push it through the barrel right?
12 mm arch punches are available at McMaster Carr for $30.00
Have you tried making a paper cartridge with an unlined corker felt wad? Also, what is the fowling difference between a powder, lined wad, ball session vs. a paper cartridge dipped/lubed ball session?
Now what about a Johnston and Dow conical with the grooves lubed?
Where do you get lamb tallow?
So what about the wads that go on top of the bullets? I wonder who uses them. I see them in 'starter kits' and then never see anyone use them in videos. My friend just ordered a new BP revolver and starter kit. I am trying to learn all of this so I can help him. Thanks for the good videos.
John's Hand Loading Those wads that come in the starter kits are the same as these in the video. They go between the powder and the ball.
@@GunsOfTheWest thanks for the reply. I see they call the second kind "seals" so I assume they use the wad under the bullet and then seal the cylinders with the seals. rmcoxyoke.com/product/ox-yoke-originals-revolver-reload-kit/
Thanks again for the videos and the quick reply.
hey i know that shooting range! i live just north of there
Could you do a video on the brass “Colt Style bullet molds” like you know, the 2 cavity ones from Pedersoli . Since there aren’t any videos of people casting bullets with them on RUclips, and since they’ve historically came in cased colt sets?
I’ll take a look at how easy they are to find and how much they are. Thanks for watching!
Those brass molds are mostly for show! None that I ever had cast a perfect ball or bullet and not the correct diameter for sure. Save your money and purchase Lyman or Lee or RCBS set.
Thanks Dustin! I am just now getting into making .36 cal paper cartridges for my home-made Manley Cartridge Former (as you know, Cliff Manley passed so they aren’t available). I don’t see anybody incorporating them into the cartridges....have you?
I’ve read that some people seat a thin cork wad above the powder, then some lube, then the bullet. Sounds like it’s worked pretty well
Excellent videos my friend. Thank you. Question: what can i lube my dry wads with? Some WD40? Motoroil?
I would use this same stuff or just some bore butter. Nothing petroleum-based.
So what about if using paper cartridges? Can I place a felt wad on top of the cartridge instead a dab of traditional lube?
I use filler on top of the powder then an undersized lube cookie, then bullet. Wads are too fiddly with paper cartridges.
Wouldn't the lube in the felt between the ball kind of deteriorate(wet it with lube) the powder or make it lease effective.
Over time, it can. I actually prefer the other lube method for that very reason. If you’re just loading and shooting for fun at the range though, the wads are fine.
Great video
I have a question. Why are you using full powder charges? Shooting full loads makes the gun get dirty really fast. I also see you not centering the sprue on your cast bullets.
I don’t want to lighten the loads just to keep the gun a tiny bit cleaner. It will get plenty dirty either way. At this distance, I’m not overly worried about the spruce being exactly centered because I haven’t seen a discernible difference in accuracy. Also, the loading port on this gun knocks the ball around a bit when it’s loaded anyway, so it’s pretty hard to keep it perfectly centered.
@@GunsOfTheWest , yeah loading rods do that. I use swagged round balls as there is no need to fuss with them. Is your 1858 .451 or .454 or .457 diameter. My CVA is a .451 and the Navy Arms(uberty) is a .454.
GunDrone I actually use .454 in all my .44 revolvers and they work well.
@@GunsOfTheWest , right because most of the latter made BP revolvers all use .454. just for fun i tried to load .454s in the CVA that required .451. on the third loads (18 shots) it was so hard to load I was afraid i'd break the loading rod. As the gun gets dirty it just gets harder and harder to load without the right ammo.
Long ago there was also differences in the 36 cal as well with .350 to .380. I have owned both and still have the steel molds.
What about if we use both at the same time?
Only problem there is you're using up your supply twice as fast. Better to use one method until you run out, then switch to the other.
where can i get percusion caps
Excellent……A+
I have found I have had better accuracy out of my Uberti and pietta 1860 Army revolvers with old style lube over the wads.
Could be that the wad is keeping the ball closer to the front of the chamber, so less jump to the rifling.
Where's your video on making your own lubricated wads?
Is it bad that I dont use wads or lube?
And with both?
The wads seem like a pain in the ass, I use crisco oil and it stays solid in even 110f heat of Texas and lube the ball well in my 1851 navy in 44cal.
Thanks for watching!
I use Crisco shortening as well.
...I'm going to try Crisco...thanks...
Do you have to keep your homemade lube refrigerated? How long does it last before it goes bad? Thank you.
I wonder if one can make paper cartridges with prelubed wads.
I use filler on top of the powder then an undersized lube cookie, then bullet. Wads are too fiddly with paper cartridges.
I’m a bit lost. I thought it was muzzleloading 101 it’s powder, patch, ball every time. But when you used lube you skipped the patch. What am I missing. Another video I saw elsewhere was powder lube the top then ram the ball in. So what is correct ?
Cap & ball revolvers actually don’t load like muzzle loading rifles, so there’s no patch involved. You can use a lubed wad between the powder and ball or just apply lube over the ball after it’s loaded.
There is a major difference between a muzzleloading rifle and a muzzleloading revolver.
The projectile in the rifle has to be rammed down the full length of the barrel, and you have to push it past the rifling grooves the whole way through. When you load a revolver, though, you ram the projectile into a chamber that's already behind the barrel and you bypass the rifling grooves entirely-- the first time the shot ever engages the rifling is during the act of firing.
For this reason alone, muzzleloading rifles use an undersized projectile and the patch acts as a discarding sabot that closes the gap between lead and the rifling grooves. In a revolver, you use an oversized ball that gets shaved down to the perfect size for the barrel, so a patch isn't needed as there is no gap between the bullet size and the barrel bore diameter.
Wads in a revolver were originally intended as a gap filler to make sure the powder gets compacted if the gun's built-in ramrod can't go down far enough. But now they're more likely to be used as a lube delivery component instead.
Thought I ordered your lube the other day but haven't received it maybe something happened and didn't order idk but I just went to sight to order percussion cap tool and was gonna grab lube it said was out of stock when you expecting more ?
I actually have more already and I just updated the website. Here’s the direct link: gunsoftheweststore.com/products/black-powder-bullet-lube-4-oz
Thanks for your business!
You said to store it loaded the lube was beat way correct to keep put moisture? Would it be good for few months?
Have you ever tried under the ball grease cookies? Smoken Gun was active on a lot of BP forums before his passing. This was his I want to go hooting lube pill mix. One stick paraffin wax, 1/4 wax toilet ring and for hot climates like ours three tablespoons olive oil. Melt it all together and pour it in a dollar store baking pan an 1/8 inch thick. let cool and punch out disks using HF hollow punches. You just put them over the powder add a ball and you are good to go.
I’ve heard of this method too. I think as long as your mixture raises the melting point to a sufficient temperature, this won’t negatively impact your powder since it won’t melt and mix with the powder charge.
What I have learned, weird as it sounds is that the wad acts as a gas seal keeping the pressure even. From your video, I can see where fact is demonstrated....
I have the wads in my BP kit but have never used them…maybe…🤷🏻♂️
Even Black Powder everything is flying off the shelves.
Cabals is selling them daily, and they are very low on supplies as well.
@@addchannelname3160 probably like Toilet paper horders
Well I bought 6 yards of felt, make my own lube and Harbor Freight offers a hole punch kit for $9, I no longer wait for shelves. Well Primers/Caps yes I need those back on shelf, $20 for 100 caps and $20 on a "Hazmat Fee" to rich this poor old of no privledge
@@addchannelname3160 I bet it's people like me giving up on finding primers but still wanting to go shooting so black powder is a new hobby
I always use wads. I shoot .44 and there's always enough room for a wad. Only in say a standard Colt cylinder does it get a bit tight but you can still get 30 grains. Remington or the Walker there's no issue at all.
Bore butter and the like is just too messy for my liking and it's a myth that it'll prevent a chainfire
I agree about the Bore Butter. The only time I’ll use it as a bullet lube is in the cold of winter when it’s not runny. This lube I’m using is very firm. Thanks for watching!
@6 6 sure didn't prevent my chainfire
The only bloody time I decided to use lube over the chamber mouth rather than wads was the only time I've ever experienced a chainfire
Sounds like whatever gun you're describing someone isn't putting the proper size bullet in it
The proper size projectile is all it needs to seal the front of the chamber. Colt's original instruction manual for these guns never said grease up the front of the cylinder, it just said put powder and a bullet in it.
I submit the majority of people's chain fires are actually coming from the rear with loose or generally ill fitting caps
Anyone else have problems with the lubricated wads ruining the powder if you don't shoot soon after loading
....personally, I wouldn't leave it loaded...fire them out at the end of the day and clean it, but that's just me...
I use the wads. Easier, quicker and does the same job of preventing chain firing. Haven't had it happen yet using wads anyway not that it should ever happen using the right ball
Do you do and with modern muzzle loaders like CVA or Traditions rifles just for an comparison
I'm planning on using the pre lubricated wads. Can they soak or make wet the black powder causing it to not fire or become less effective if stored in this manner for long (a month or so) durrations?
You are exactly right!!
Why not both?
Hi any estimate on the johnson & dow 44 cal. mold from Lee been to your website your not letting me order one (put in shopping cart)
I don’t sell those and they’re not on my website. You’ll need to contact Eras Gone Bullet Molds.
Can a wad be put in a paper cartridge?
You should not use a lubricated wad in a cartridge because the grease will migrate over time into the powder. A lubricated wad works most reliably if you're going to shoot right away. If the gun is going to be carried or stored for a while, you should keep the powder dry and apply grease to the front of the chamber instead of in a wad.
Awesome!