Not only do they have a different flash point, BP being much lower than pyrex. the biggest factor for me is that pyrodex has a bad shelf life track record, I have BP that is 30 plus years old that was stored in a powder flask sitting on a shelf in my garage and is absolutely as potent as the day I bought it - burnt in a flash! and in a sealed factory plastic container sitting on the same shelf in my garage for 15 years (+/-) the pyrodex was extremely hard to light with a lighter and burnt, but it was so slow that it stopped burning before it was all gone and left a ring of unburned powder. I have left a revolver loaded in my toolbox for several years with BP and it still fires but I left a rifle loaded with pyrodex for a year and couldn't get it to fire even by pulling the nipple and putting a little 4f BP under the cap to prime it. I ended up pulling the projectile and scraping the block of crud from the breach...... I really don't like pyrodex ;)
I remember my dad cleaning his old 45 cal. BP. He used dish soap and boiling water. When he was done, the barrel was so hot it evaporated all the dampness in just a minute or so. After a light oiling he was done. That man was a real Hunter with that old rifle. Kept us fed for my entire childhood. Now I use a 50
Dish soap and boiling water will clean just about everything! I'll have to remember this when I use my BP mini salute cannon, the instructions say to use "soapy ammonia" whatever that is.
Back in the 90's when I used to shoot black powder pistols, I used to have a 45 cal Ruger Old Army, the laws then in the UK were strange, if you wanted to use Black Powder, you needed an explosives licence & was limited to how much you could hold, & how you stored it, but you could buy Pyrodex as & when with no licence because it wasn't classed as an explosive but as a propellant, they both did the same thing. Those prats that made that ruling got well paid for their efforts & now look at our country's gun culture, only criminals have handguns. Great video Dustin, I really enjoyed it, thank you for posting.
That's because concussion can set off black powder easier than Pyrodex. It also burns faster. Also, keep black powder in its original metal container as it draws static electricity away from the powder during storage.
the guy 10 years ago I told my wife just wait and see-these 'mass shootings' (false flags) will continue to happen in the hope people will blame guns and get suckered into anti-gun legislation. The left knows taking guns away will only work on people that obey laws to begin with. I love how schills immediately resort to name calling instead of debating. So what if he's wrong? He's exercising his right to his opinion. But what if he's right-that opens up a big can of worms most people want to deny. Anyone notice it always happens at areas that are 'gun free' zones? Whether or not the shooting is real or not the government wants to give the impression they'll give a false sense of 'security' while destroying rights in exchange. The 2nd clearly states 'shall not' which is legal jargon for 'don't touch' yet they do it anyway. I wish the Midwest and Texas would secede and let the coasts go to hell on their own.
About 10 years ago the Fed tried labeling blackpowder as an explosive requiring dealers to obtain a license to sell. All the hunters and shooters in the country mass called their congress reps and it died before getting anywhere. Public pressure works-we just need to believe it and use it more often. The Brady Bill back in '92 caused the shitstorm in '94 when the Dems got beaten badly in the elections and lost the House for the first time in nearly 40 years-let them be stupid again...okay, stupider and downright legally insane.
I belong to the NMLRA (new member) and when I first started shooting Black powder rifles I was told to use Pyrodex (100g) by Bass Pro. I was then told by a couple of guys at my NMLRA Range I was using was too much. The reason I was given was because the flash I was seeing after firing was powder that was still burning after the Ball left the barrel. I was told Pyrodex doesn't burn fast enough and was therefore wasting a lot of money. I was advised to change to Black Powder (GOEX) and only use 60-70g. I was told because it burns faster I would get more velocity from my rifle. I was amazed at how much more distance I achieved now shooting 200 yds and with a sighter shooting 500 yds. Friendship, Indiana has an awesome Black Powder ONLY range for members to enjoy.
by volume I was thinking the opposite. My brother was shooting his 1841 Kentucky 58 cal with 60g of Pyrodex and he's getting 1000 fps but 60g of black powder is supposed to be in the low 900s like 920fps. Maybe because it's a long rifle and a heavier ball slow powder works better. I reload and that is how it generally works for rifles. Maybe you're right though for pistols.
Pyrodex and blackpowder are hydroscopic and corrosive to metals. The supposed easier cleaning is only a slight difference when used in rifles where larger volumes are used. One significant difference is ignition temperature. Blackpowder ignites at about 350 degrees Fahrenheit and Pyrodex at about 700 degrees Fahrenheit. This why it doesn't work as well in flintlocks
Pyrodex and black powder AREN'T corrosive to metals. The RESIDUE that's left after the gun is fired is what is corrosive. I ALWAYS clean black powder weapons as soon as possible after shooting. I also load my guns and sometimes don't shoot them for weeks or even months. As long as they're kept dry, they won't get corroded from the powder sitting in the chambers. Once you slip a cap on them, they still go off, even after being loaded forever. I've read that there were weapons from the Civil War that were still loaded and went off when capped!
@@thatsmrharley2u2 yup, as long as it doesnt get wet but i think, after it dries, it would still go off.... but probably with slightly less power havent tested that one.... didnt want to soak my friends guns in water...... kinda bad manners lol
I've been a black powder shooter for many years, and have used Pyrodex for a lot of shooting too. Pyrodex is fine for use with cap and ball shooting. It is OK to use as a PROPELLANT with flintlocks also, but the biggest difference I have found is as a PAN POWDER with flintlocks. Pyrodex does not ignite anywhere NEAR as easily as black powder from a flint and steel spark in a flintlock. There is where it really falls down. If you are using flintlock weapons, stick to black powder, especially for the pan.
I grind mine down all by hand and rock stones like the Indians did there corn I turn it to powder looks like flower when I'm all done and it never ever fails to ignite now cap and ball.or flint lock it great stuff so don't be afraid to grind it down real fine so it then ignites like no tommrow
Took up the cap and ball hobby back in the 80s. Shot both black powder and pyrodex. I have learned over the years that pyrodex has a shelf life and will barely push a ball out the barrel. Black powder of the same age is still rocking. Thanks for the video!
I have had mine for 19 years same Pyro in same can and it shots just as well no differents wonder if you got moisture any way yeah 19 years old and other day I made some loads and she kicked like a mule
Warning about Pyrodex. Pyrodex fouling is extremely corrosive and will quickly pit carbon steel barrels if not cleaned immediately after the range session. Hodgdon 777 is much less corrosive than Pyrodex, but still corrosive and should also be cleaned immediately after the range session. Real Black Powder is minimally corrosive, as the fouling absorbs moisture from the air and the salts in BP fouling combined with moisture will slowly cause rust on carbon steel. Pyrodex, Hodgdon 777 and BP fouling will all easily clean with just plain water. The "Moose Milk" Ballistol/ Water mix is excellent as Ballistol is very alkaline and will neutralize the acids that make Pyrodex and Hodgdon 777 so corrosive to carbon steel.
63DW89A your very right about that. I had a ruger old army in stainless and used pyrodex once. After I thought I had cleaned it thouroghly I missed some on the hammer and it pitted! Last time I used that.
I have the same problem. I only tear mine down completely twice a year after around 400 shots. Most of the time I just wipe it down with baby wipes and just re-oil and grease the reel. I won't even scrub the barrel just push it a few times and it has no damage.
Something else must be at work there. I use same method to clean weapons whether shooting real black powder or one of the subs. Never have had a problem with corrosion in any of my dozen or so black powder guns. Certainly no rifling was "eaten".
In my limited experience, Pyrodex cakes up and can take some elbow grease to remove, but real black powder just melts away with water and balistol. Plus real black powder makes more smoke and fire haha can't beat that!
I prefer real black powder but from the early 80's till around 2000 all I shot was Pyrodex RS or P because it's all I could find locally. Ordering real BP was always a financial decision due to the shipping and hazmat fees. At far as cleanup.. I have never found one harder to clean than the other when used in guns using patched round ball, lubed wads or conicals with lube rings. But in modern in lines using plastic sabots that are not lubed Pyrodex leaves a hard dry crusty fouling that requires more effort to clean than real blackpowder does. With the bore being crusty dry in an inline Pyrodex will absorb moisture much faster than Black and rust will form faster.
Pyrodex use olive oil or vegetable oil to clean. Bio oil the pyrodex just melts and I have no rust. Also after the 3 swabs all you are getting is graphite.
I'll never forget a discussion I was having with a friend about black powder shooting. He had a slip of the tongue and referred to Bore Butter as "ball butter" which I still laugh about!
+Dustin Winegar, your observations are absolutely correct about how easy BP fouling actually is to clean. In reloading 45 Colt with Pyrodex, Hodgdon 777 and real BP, the one thing that impressed me was how much easier the BP fouling cleaned off the brass than did Pyrodex and Hodgdon 777. Pyrodex actually discolored the brass so much that I now rarely load Pyrodex in cartridges. Hodgdon 777 will also discolor the brass, but not as much as Pyrodex. BP darkens the fired brass, but seems to clean off easily and not be a permanent discoloration as is Pyrodex and Hodgdon 777 fired brass.
Cowboy action shooters that use 12 gauge all brass shells, drop them immediately into a jug of water and soap at the range and only use black powder. They use the same shells for many years.
Hello I have a 44 pietta and I load with pyrodex rs which is equivalent to ffg I load at 1.50 grams and sometimes at 2 grams can you tell me if I take. Risks .... thank you to you
Been shooting Pyrodex & BP pretty much interchangeably since the late 60's, and never paid any attention to one vs the other being any easier/more difficult to clean up after. I disassemble my Colt or Remington, then into the sink fulled with warm soapy water it goes. I use a nylon bore brush and also toothbrushes in cleaning. Never found it necessary to use any spiffy elixirs named after large grazing animals, although I have been known to use WD-40 to displace water, as it was formulated to do. I have today a particular 1861 Navy Dad bought, and it still looks and functions as new. It was my job to disassemble, clean and reassemble it after every trip to the range.
5 лет назад+21
I've been shooting black powder since the mid 1980s and have always preferred Goex over Pyrodex. The problem now is FINDING Goex black powder. I don't worry about the extra price.
I recently discovered a Goex dealer in Evanston, Wyoming, who sells it for $17.50 per pound. I don’t know if that helps you, but I was impressed by the price. Thanks for watching!
Track of the Wolf sells black powder. Have to buy a case at a time (24 cans), but the mix in that case can be whatever you want. Not so good for an individual, but if several club members got together, the club could make the purchase and distribute according to what each member ordered. Also Buffalo Arms sells black powder. They require 5 pounds per order, brand or size your choice.
@@thatsmrharley2u2 - "Plus shipping" is always a consideration, but if you can't find it anywhere else, you just bite the bullet or use a substitute. All in all, I'm generally satisfied with the substitutes, but real black powder is the best IMO. Soap and water cleanup if you use natural lubes and avoid petroleum products.
Pyrodex is indeed safer in that it is less prone to accidental discharge and has all the same basic ingredients of Black powder with added ingredients to make it more stable. Contrary to what the naysayers claim it IS real Black Powder with added ingredients. It is no more worse on your gun than Black powder is when not cleaned. They'll both rust it out in a hurry if you neglect it. On top of the added safety benefits, it is very easy to find at just about any local gun shop and many big box retailers. No hazmat fee nonsense. That being said, the exact Black Powder experience still has never been duplicated with any substitute. Pyrodex is the absolute closest, but still not exactly the same. If you want to use the same exact powder and get the same exact boom and exact aroma that they had during the civil war and even hundreds of years before that, then Black Powder is for you. It demands more care and respect than any other gunpowder though. As long as you treat it with care it will be nice to you. Abuse it, and it will destroy your life in the blink of an eye. The words "BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY" need to be regarded as absolute gospel with Black Powder.
Don Bahn , wow so do I ! I clean ‘em right in the kitchen sinks ! When the wife is not around! Lol ! Thought I was the only one! I’ll even run the water hot out of the Sink Fossett run the brass brush out the barrel under the water and back in till the water turn clean!
Powerback2thepeople When I got my very first front stuffer at 12 years old, the good ol' boy gun dealer told me and Dad to go and see some local 'hill boys' big into blackpowder. They said don't bother with solvents-just get a bucket of hot, soapy water for cleaning, pillow ticking for patches, and Crisco for lube.
I'd use our air compressor with an air nozzle that had about a 6" straight end. Perfect for blowing out any residue in the barrel, lock and overall. Then I'd go liberal with the gun oil. When I'd next get it out I'd run a swab down the barrel to remove any excess oil and pop a cap or two.
I clean mine in the kitchen siink too. I quit using deterent and just scalding water. It cleans the fouling and residue right off. But you sure have to dry it all with rags, etc and then oil them up. For muskets I would bring water to bowl and with a funnel I would pour boiling water down the barrel until the black water pouring out the nipple hole was clear. Then dry and oil. @@Powerback2thepeople
I've hunted with black powder and shoot on the range with black powder and a friend using piradex and I saw no deference. I think you drew the same conclusions as I did and my Dad did. Thanks for the video
Hey, Dustin. Thanks for all the great videos and information! You have provided a lot of us with a stable and reliable source on black powder sporting over the years. On a second note though, I thought I would put my 2 cents in on the subject of both pyrodex and black powder. I have had some varying results with, pyrodex. Seems to me, to be more of a climate related issue. It's a lot more hygroscopic than black powder in my experience. I have seen it rust in less than 30 minutes (and fairly badly) in real humid climates but take 4 days or more in really dry/arid climates. I have done burn tests on steel plates and have concluded the same results. In montana I can go 2 or so days without cleaning with no sign of rust.I have not and will not do that, but I could if I had to. Mine all get cleaned religiously after every session as should be done with black powder firearms. Also before I forget, to my knowledge black powder only produces sulphuric acid when burnt whereas pyrodex produces sulphuric acid and hydrochloric acid, these acids when combined create a chemical reaction with steel that first etches then pits metal when in contact with any humidity in the air or direct water. A acid neutralizing substance like baking soda will be your best friend and "baking soda baths" have been used for a long time to neutralize sulphuric acid. Just my experience, as always use at your own discretion. And again, thank you for all you do for the black powder community!
I've been shooting Black Powder firearms since the 90's , most were shot with Pyrodex since most stores will not carry real black powder since its a explosive.
Thanks for dispelling one of the many myths about Pyrodex. When I started shooting muzzleloaders, I bought into the Pyrodex propaganda (cleaner shooting, cleans easier, etc.) I found during my muzzleloading range sessions that the bores fouled quicker and had a crustier fouling than BP, and it was harder to clean afterwards. Once I was able to find a reliable BP dealer in my area, and shot BP exclusively, I haven't shot Pryodex since. BP fouling is softer and the bore is easier to clean. I find consistent accuracy is easier to obtain with BP. I'm not even going to mention the toxic gasses emitted from Pyrodex. Anyone want a couple of pounds of old Pyrodex?
The storage requirements of BP are now so onerous (because the people who make the rules are afraid of it) that very few stores will actually carry it anymore. A rep at the local Sportsman's Warehouse talked to me for a while about what they'd have to go through if they wanted to continue to sell it over the counter as they used to do. If you want actual BP, your best bet now is to order it online and deal with the handling fees. That means that you're best off ordering a two year supply or getting together with some friends to combine orders since to offset the cost of the fees, there's a minimum quantity before it becomes viable and while many of us are quite enthusiastic about our BP shooting, a pound of powder can last a good while. When you have to order five pounds at a time for it to be cost effective, well, better to buy as a group.
@Brian Perkins so why are you here ! I am here because there is nothing at all related to this on tv . Already knew the outcome to this subject , shooting black powder when this guy was shiting green . And now that I am done with this vid , and making the mistake of reading from trolls , it's raining out so I am going to watch another and hopefully you did not comment on any of those .
Dustin, another nice video. I was told that the Pyrodex was more corrosive than the black powder and harder to remove than black powder. Your video seems to prove this.
In my limited experience, Pyrodex is frighteningly corrosive. A delay in cleaning destroyed my first muzzle loading pistol. Pyrodex may be easier to buy than Goex, but I have no plans to burn that last 3/4 pound of Pryodex P I still have.
I use pyrodex in my shotgun. Load up cartridges with it 75 grains by volume same volume of shot. Great little load on rabbit's and pigeons. Best wishes from the uk
There is nothing more satisfying than reloading your shotgun shells with black powder and seeing all the smoke coming out of the barrel of your single-shot gun!
Excellent video brother good comparison I've never used Pyrex but we just continue on my grandfather's tradition of making our own powder I've been doing it since I was a boy, kind of an extra buzz shooting your own powder out of your own gun😁
Pyrex ! hahahahahaha shooting tempered glass, are we? Just kidding, man. Making your own powder is what my grampa would have done out on the prairie back 100 years ago.
Appreciate the correction in the description. Also, first time I have seen anyone use a jag. I have always used a patch holder. I might invest in a jag and try it out for myself
To me, it seems like the jag pushes the patch into the rifling a bit better. Cabela’s sells a nice set for about $18 and it includes most calibers. Thanks for watching!
Not having shot the real black powder out of my 1858 NM Rem 45 CB, It was a royal pain cleaning pyrodex, I'd strip the stocks off the pistol and soak in hot water and dawn dish soap. then spend the next two hours scrubbing the snot out of the pistol to get it clean. That 1873 black powder cleaning job looked like a dirty smokeless pistol cleaning job. Far better then anything I've done with pistols. Good job and great work
I've ordered my first cap and ball, a Pietta 1851 Navy. How lucky for me to have asked myself this question. And, how lucky for me to have found your quite revealing video on the topic! 👍
The burning question is...Does pyrodex throw flames?..I want flames and smoke when I shoot my .50 flintlock, that way the critter dies of heart attack if I miss.
Black powder while seemingly a simple chemical composition, can vary greatly, for reasons my beyond my simple understanding of chemistry. Some seems to burn "wet" some "dry" and really crusty. Looks like the goex you tried went well for you. Pyrodex is a little bit rare and expensive here and I can only recall burning one can as an experiment years ago. I do remember that I couldnt see any advantage, was really dry and hard to clean so I concur with your finding as most BP I have played with was relatively easy to clean up after. (boiling water and dish wash soap) Also here in NZ we have locally made BP so for that reason I tend to run with that. Good video, thanks for posting
Thanks for the comparison. I've used BP instead of Pyrodex because BP is cheaper(because I make my own). The only comparison you didn't do is to use it as a parachute ejection propellant(rocketry) which I have. My one try of Pyrodex this way resulted in a damaged rocket that had to have the body repaired when Pyrodex blew a hole thru the airframe. Although Pyrodex burns slower in the open, when under pressure it may actually burn faster and produce a pressure spike. As for ease of cleaning I have found similar results to yours. One propellant that is really easy to clean is "crimson powder" used for parachute ejection charges. It cleans up with a damp rag. But, it's not recommended for firearms.
"Do not try this at home." I did many years ago. In my driveway and it flared in my face. The next day working at the factory my coworkers asked me why I had no eyebrows.
It’s unfortunate that the powder measure that measures by volume uses grains as the unit of measurement. As you already know I am sure, grains is in fact only a measurement of weight. But I do get it now. It was very confusing because as a seasoned reloader (of smokeless powder) volume and mass are both very important, but they are actually entirely different. Richard Lee discusses this at length (ad nauseum really) in the Modern Reloading book. He states that he wishes all reloading was measured by volume instead of mass and explains why. Thanks for the video to help me understand. I can easily buy Pyrodex locally with no hazmat fee, which is attractive, and now I won’t worry about it.
Random guy... You are correct... grains is only a measuement of weight and there is no such thing as grains by volume. The problem is that there is no standardization of volume type measures and for what granulation of powder. The term people are looking for is "Volume Equivalent "!
I've shot for a while with 50-70 and 45-110 with 2f black and have never had a problem cleaning either rifle. I scrub the bore with clear transmission fluid after firing (at the range) and oil everything after. Every couple weeks I tear the rifles down and clean with a mix of very hot water and Murphy's oil soap. I have never had a problem with getting these rifles clean, or any rust.....as for Pyrodex, more expensive here (by weight) than Goes 2f, so I can't be bothered. Good vid though. Thanks for uploading.
I found that Pyrodex burns very dirty. I could only manage about 12 shots out of my revolvers. Since switching over to Triple 7, I can easily get over 60 shots out of them.
That sounds like something else is at play as triple seven is just hogdons synthetic powder. It is advertised as burning clean, but if you can only manage 12 shots on pyrodex there is definitely something wrong.
I saw this video before I made the leap and ordered some Black Powder. I have noticed a few benefits of Black powder over pyrodex, first is BP is actually less corrosive, I don’t care about semantics the fact is the guns tried in rust overnight or sooner with pyrodex but BP is more forgiving even not rusting yet at 2-3 days and even weeks after shooting it. The BP does clean easier, water soluble so I just use water and the cleaner of my choice, usually scrubbing bubbles bathroom cleaner or generic and scrubs with cleaning brushes and bore brushes. Works almost too well. I will say watching BP videos and talking to folks in BP forums helped me decide to take the chance and order some and now I have no use for pyrodex.
I thought I was a mad man. I used pyrodex and 777 because I was told it is cleaner and was easier to remove from the gun than Goex. Well I came across a gun shop that carried black powder so I figured I would buy a pound and try it. Well to my amazement it let me shoot longer before the cylinder would start getting bound up and was not harder to clean. Needless to say I went back and bought more black powder and that's all I use now. Thank you for the video. Every time I tell that to another shooter I can see they think I'm a mad man.
BP is classified as an explosive - gun store dude said that they were instructed to treat the customer as a potential terrorist last time I was shopping - Willits CA, 2005. The other types are "propellant"... so maybe different in other areas and you can still buy the "real stuff" outside the peoples republic.
FYI: I don't know about the other 49 states, but in Louisiana the State Police considers more than five pounds of black powder, in bulk, as an explosive, and needs to be stored in a magazine. A person can possess more than five pounds as long as it is divided into five pound lots and stored in separate secured buildings.
I've been told that Pyrodex doesn't have a long shelf life where as Black Powder's shelf life is indefinite if stored properly. As a child, some 70 years ago I found a keg of Black Powder in a pantry along with black powder 10 gauged shotgun cartilages, primed and ready to load. I'm sure that this stuff dated back in the early 1900 hundreds or late 1800 hundreds. The powder was still very potent as I experimented with it. Yes, it was a no, no, but my brother and I hid it from our parents. The farm was established in 1798 and the house was rebuilt in 1802, containing things dating back to that time. I don't thing that they threw anything away.
I changed over to black powder years ago. Two things made my mind up for me. I got better accuracy with black powder than with pyrodex and I started shooting flintlocks. I never was able to get a flint lock to go off with pyrodex unles I loaded a black powder "starter" load and used a black powder pan charge.
Try Swiss black powder. Order your black powder online 25 lbs and store it safely. Black powder is much more accurate due to more consistent performance than smokeless. Continue with your research and videos. You are doing an excellent job.. Thank you.
NEVER EVER use smokeless powder in a flint or caplock! It's higher pressures make it very dangerous in a firearm not made to withstand them! Smokeless is intended to be used only in MODERN cartridge firing guns
This guy is super night I went to a website to find some stuff for my revolver and he called Back twice in one day Day after I called him and we talked for like 25 minutes he was super nice I'll support this guy's channel anyday
I've been shooting all my life and it's only in the last couple of years here, on youtube, that I have even heard of balistol. This is the first time I've actually seen it because I've never seen it in stores. So far though, Hoppes9 from walmart is working fine.
Hoppes 9 is a more aggressive cleaner and, in my opinion, better than Ballistol for modern guns. For black powder guns though, water and Ballistol are fantastic. Thanks for watching!
scott: Yeah...Hoppes9 is great for smokeless residue...but if you're using it to clean black powder...you might want to make sure you neutralize the salts with something water based first. I could be wrong...but from what I've heard and read...Hoppes9 doesn't do a very good job of neutralizing BP residue. Dustin's right...Hoppes9 for smokeless powder...and Balistol/water for BP.
Windex works great too. Melts away the residue in seconds. A couple of patches sprayed with windex followed by dry patches till clean. I always flip my patch and run it on the other side also until they start to come through clean. Use less patches that way.
Try machinists, water soluable oil and water for moose milk with 10 to 1 mix....1 part water soluable oil to 10 parts water, with a drop or two of Dawn. This works great for cleaning and lightly oils the bore during shooting sessions.
One of the things that I always hear proponents of pyrodex claim is that it is less corrosive than BP. In my own experience I havent found this to be true, in fact, i find just the opposite. I'd like to see you test it. Get a plate of steel, clean it up good, burn a pile of each kind of powder on it, side by side, leave it out in the elements for a week and then compare.
I like the Goex original black power. I couldn’t believe how crusty the pyrodex was and. Down side is blackpowder is controlled by BATFE and they make it really difficult for retail store to carry it.
Thanks for the video. An excellent video and good information that is not commonly passed. As far as cleaning either, use hot water, hot water, and hot water. I would like to add that either is okay for precussion cap, but ONLY backpowder can be used in a flintlocks.
You are right... it is a myth... black powder is easier clean. Also reviews years ago pyrodex use to claim it wasn't as corrosive as BP...in fact I remember one guy saying you could let it set for a couple weeks before cleaning.. this is also a myth... and a good way to pit up you gun...I think it's a lot more corrosive than BP....also it's just as smokey, if not more smokey... as your video shows...lastly the smell is not the same .. BP has that sulphur smell...some people say it stinks like rotten eggs. Not me. I prefer it over the smell of the Pyrodex. There's a lot of substitutes out on the market. Pyrodex being the worst. And none of them as good as good old black powder.
I started out using black powder back in the 1980's in my smokepole. I switched to Pyrodex in the mid 90's. To be truthful, I really couldn't tell any difference in performance. Pyrodex is simply easier to find and purchase. Still using pyrodex today. Still having fun with muzzleloader hunting! I would really like to get a muzzleloader shotgun to complete my collection.
You can determine the weight of the approved by volume load for respective powders (as you demonstrated in this video) and then use that info to load phial tubes using a Lee perfect powder measure. It's good practice to reload BP revolvers with measured phials rather than a powder flask - just to avoid that one time in a hundred when the chamber has a smouldering ember just waiting to turn your flask into a grenade.
I bought my Italian clone of a SAA so long ago I think it was less than $100. I only could find one type of factory ammo and thought it was quite mild. The handloading manuals also listed very light loads, so I assume the loads were for old original Colts with cast iron frames. One day I decided to make some black powder loads, and had quite a surprise. The only data I could find was "the bullet and the powder like to be chummy with each other" so I put in all the powder it could take and still leave room for the bullet. When I fired it I realized that thing was a real gun. The pansy factory loads made it seem to be more like a .22. I had never heard of Pyrodex back in those days, and I don't think I will try it now.
I live in the uk and shoot clays every sunday. When ive finished my round i blow off a load of shells loaded 65 grains by volume to equal volume of shot in an old double barrel hammergun . Great fun smoke flames and destroyed targets pyrodex is great fun can load some very excessive loads and still not blow up in your face. Unlike nitro
I have used both Black Powder and Pyrodex and Black Powder is much better. I prefer the smell and feel of black powder, it cleans up very well with hot water and a light coat of oil after. In don't see a marked performance difference between the two when using my cap and ball pistols or rifles (muskets) but in my flintlocks the pyrodex has a higher fail to fire rate then the black powder does. I rarely have a fail to fire with black powder but with pyrodex I do have occasional pan ignition but failure to transmit through the touch hole or occasionally the flint sparks will fail to ignite the pyrodex in the pan.
the Lee Powder Measure is a good addition to your vid, but I'v never loaded my 1851 using any measure. My flask has 2 nipples, I believe the short one is 22 grains and the long one 30 grains. I have never checked them on a scale. I load 2 short nipple fulls for the 147 gr ball, and one long nipple full for the .452 cal 200gr SWC. I have the 1851 Navy w/brass frame for now on 20+ years. only failed me once, when it swallowed an expended cap. Replaced the small part that it broke, and it still works great. I think "volume" measuring works best with black powder or substitute.
Yep. But storing more than #4 requires a Federal explosives license, iirc. So get 10 friends to go in on the order with you so you can break it down into acceptably smaller lots once it arrives...
@@nunyabidniz2868 actually it's 50 lbs. Anyone over 21 can order a case lot, and have it delivered to your door...does require an adult signiture upon receiving. Besides who is going to check out your inventory???? Big brother? The reason stores don't like stocking BP is that they are limited on quantity on hand and are required to have a special powder locker.
35 grains by volume and 36 grains by weight. Grains is a measure of mass. The measuring device probably uses a standardized density so it indirectly gives an implied measurement of mass by volume, but grains is neither a measure of volume or weight. It is a measure of mass. Still gave you a thumbs up.
Yeah, I realized that after uploading the video. I kick myself for misspeaking on that because it's too late to edit that. LOL!! I think the year was actually '75 (or thereabouts). I'll put a correction in the video description. Thanks for watching!
David Edelen I clean mine in the kitchen sink. I quit using detergent and got to using just scalding water. It cleans the fouling and residue right off. But you sure have to dry it all with rags, etc and then oil them up. For muskets I would bring water to bowl and with a funnel I would go ou tin the yarx and pour boiling water down the barrel until the black water pouring out the nipple hole was clear. Then dry and oil it up. I had a lot of BP guns in the 2980s. I wish i still had them.
I weigh all of my black powder and pyrodex loads...but first I find the volume load that gives me the accuracy I want..then I average about 20 volume measures by weight and I get fantastic accuracy
I use natural lubes after cleaning and have found Pyrodex leaves a drier sooty fouling in my guns and it cleans up just as easy as Goex with hot water and Murphy's Oil mix. When I first started shooting muzzleloaders, 36 years ago, I used modern gun cleaners and lubes and yes Pyrodex cleanup was like scrubbing tar from the gun. The ONLY semi modern lube I use on my muzzleloaders now is Ballistol. Prior to shooting I do a thorough bore swab then light lube with bore butter. Makes for easy cleaning. My preferred powder is Goex but if all I have or can find is Pyrodex then I jave no issues with it.
Not my experience. Have used both. Both clean up the same. No better, no worse, just tedious. Very important though. As for the smell it is about 75-80% black powder ingredients (charcoal, Sulfur, and potassium nitrate) and that is all you really smell is the Sulfur smell. The graphite and potassium perchlorate and the less than 1% of other trade secret ingredients don't seem to contribute to any noticeable difference. Some say the Sulfur smell is a lot stronger with Pyrodex but I haven't noticed that much of a difference really.
I learned why black powder has the shiny appearance, the shiny is a sealer to keep the moisture content stable. It gets more volatile the dryer it gets
I clean my blackpowder guns with nearly boiling water and soap , rinse with nearly boiling clean water , dry with a clean pad. The barrel dries out almost immediately ; then I run an oil patch through and the cleaning is finished in less than 5 minutes . I have been cleaning my blackpowder guns like this for 50 years .
The Italian made BP revolvers are to be loaded w no more than 30 grains of bp. A little less for more accuracy. Say, 24 grains.. or 18 grains. Experiment. With caution One can tell the difference of bp vs pyro per the flame-charge. For my money... black powder all the way. Instantaneous combustion. In lieu of 'delayed' combustion. Also- you can load all 6 (after-all its a 6-shooter) and rotate the cylinder to in-between bores for a safe-lock cylinder. Thats what those notches are for. Duh! Hugs.
Question: compare how badly they were fouled and how many cylinders one might fire with each BEFORE each would require cleaning...... the issue I have noticed is black powder fouls MORE than substitutes, so the pistol has to be cleaned more often. Also, did you think that black powder produces more smoke ?
I haven't shot my black powder guns in a while. Since I haven't been able to find black powder lately. I have shot Pyrodex and feel like there is a delay. Do you feel you found a delay in pyrodex vs Black powder?
The Original Gamer Buckaroo, if you think the reason they used black powder was so they could create a smoke screen so they could duck a run after firing, then please stick with your video games. Don’t ever consider getting into target practice with a real firearm, your mind is not in the right place. As a matter of fact, get a mirror lay it on the floor, take your drawers off and squat over the mirror. Now if you’ll concentrate on what you see in the mirror you may also find out where your mind is. Happy hunting.
As I recall from GM/A school, black powder is considered a Low Explosive, with a burn rate of 1,600 feet per second. Way back when, we didn't have goodies like your Moose Milk, we had to start out by boiling some water.
Works great! I like moose milk though because it leaves a film of Ballistol behind. Sometimes though, I’ll just flush my bore and cylinder with hot, running water before using the moose milk. Thanks for watching!
My channel now has merch! Click on this link to see the available products. Thanks for supporting the channel!
teespring.com/stores/guns-of-the-west
Can I use CHEAP SHOT 50 Cal sabots in my 44 1858 Remington replica ?.. it's 45 Cal without the sleeves
Not only do they have a different flash point, BP being much lower than pyrex. the biggest factor for me is that pyrodex has a bad shelf life track record, I have BP that is 30 plus years old that was stored in a powder flask sitting on a shelf in my garage and is absolutely as potent as the day I bought it - burnt in a flash! and in a sealed factory plastic container sitting on the same shelf in my garage for 15 years (+/-) the pyrodex was extremely hard to light with a lighter and burnt, but it was so slow that it stopped burning before it was all gone and left a ring of unburned powder.
I have left a revolver loaded in my toolbox for several years with BP and it still fires but I left a rifle loaded with pyrodex for a year and couldn't get it to fire even by pulling the nipple and putting a little 4f BP under the cap to prime it. I ended up pulling the projectile and scraping the block of crud from the breach...... I really don't like pyrodex ;)
@@mkys9899 in artillery we used powder from the 60s and it still sends the pill
Yo pensé que iba a explotar si se carga con piroxilado
Is black powder some of the merch in your shop? If not, why not?
I remember my dad cleaning his old 45 cal. BP. He used dish soap and boiling water. When he was done, the barrel was so hot it evaporated all the dampness in just a minute or so. After a light oiling he was done. That man was a real Hunter with that old rifle. Kept us fed for my entire childhood. Now I use a 50
Dish soap and boiling water will clean just about everything! I'll have to remember this when I use my BP mini salute cannon, the instructions say to use "soapy ammonia" whatever that is.
@@themadscientest Dish soap is detergent based so it's not exactly soap.
Hot water and dish soap does the trick. I've always used it to clean my black powder guns. It's effective and cheaper and safer than solvents.
In the field I use spit.... it is designed to break down most everything, and it does a pretty decent job of it.
@@Rick_Sanchez_C137_ Rattlesnake venom is the Cowboy Way..
Back in the 90's when I used to shoot black powder pistols, I used to have a 45 cal Ruger Old Army, the laws then in the UK were strange, if you wanted to use Black Powder, you needed an explosives licence & was limited to how much you could hold, & how you stored it, but you could buy Pyrodex as & when with no licence because it wasn't classed as an explosive but as a propellant, they both did the same thing. Those prats that made that ruling got well paid for their efforts & now look at our country's gun culture, only criminals have handguns. Great video Dustin, I really enjoyed it, thank you for posting.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective on the difference between our two countries’ laws. Thanks for watching!
That's because concussion can set off black powder easier than Pyrodex. It also burns faster. Also, keep black powder in its original metal container as it draws static electricity away from the powder during storage.
@Sniperbait66 RVN keep spreading bs and lies jeez you are an idiot
the guy 10 years ago I told my wife just wait and see-these 'mass shootings' (false flags) will continue to happen in the hope people will blame guns and get suckered into anti-gun legislation. The left knows taking guns away will only work on people that obey laws to begin with. I love how schills immediately resort to name calling instead of debating. So what if he's wrong? He's exercising his right to his opinion. But what if he's right-that opens up a big can of worms most people want to deny.
Anyone notice it always happens at areas that are 'gun free' zones? Whether or not the shooting is real or not the government wants to give the impression they'll give a false sense of 'security' while destroying rights in exchange. The 2nd clearly states 'shall not' which is legal jargon for 'don't touch' yet they do it anyway. I wish the Midwest and Texas would secede and let the coasts go to hell on their own.
About 10 years ago the Fed tried labeling blackpowder as an explosive requiring dealers to obtain a license to sell. All the hunters and shooters in the country mass called their congress reps and it died before getting anywhere. Public pressure works-we just need to believe it and use it more often. The Brady Bill back in '92 caused the shitstorm in '94 when the Dems got beaten badly in the elections and lost the House for the first time in nearly 40 years-let them be stupid again...okay, stupider and downright legally insane.
Perhaps the myth that BP is more difficult to clean was created by Pyrodex.
I belong to the NMLRA (new member) and when I first started shooting Black powder rifles I was told to use Pyrodex (100g) by Bass Pro. I was then told by a couple of guys at my NMLRA Range I was using was too much. The reason I was given was because the flash I was seeing after firing was powder that was still burning after the Ball left the barrel. I was told Pyrodex doesn't burn fast enough and was therefore wasting a lot of money. I was advised to change to Black Powder (GOEX) and only use 60-70g. I was told because it burns faster I would get more velocity from my rifle. I was amazed at how much more distance I achieved now shooting 200 yds and with a sighter shooting 500 yds. Friendship, Indiana has an awesome Black Powder ONLY range for members to enjoy.
by volume I was thinking the opposite. My brother was shooting his 1841 Kentucky 58 cal with 60g of Pyrodex and he's getting 1000 fps but 60g of black powder is supposed to be in the low 900s like 920fps. Maybe because it's a long rifle and a heavier ball slow powder works better. I reload and that is how it generally works for rifles. Maybe you're right though for pistols.
My experience is different with my 1858 Remington. 35g of black powder 900 on average
Pyrodex 35g 960.
I live 15 miles or so from friendship. Helluva flea market there during the shoots
Pyrodex and blackpowder are hydroscopic and corrosive to metals. The supposed easier cleaning is only a slight difference when used in rifles where larger volumes are used. One significant difference is ignition temperature. Blackpowder ignites at about 350 degrees Fahrenheit and Pyrodex at about 700 degrees Fahrenheit. This why it doesn't work as well in flintlocks
Thanks for watching!
I appreciate a comment by someone who knows what he is talking about and not just parroting what he has heard/read somewhere.
Pyrodex and black powder AREN'T corrosive to metals. The RESIDUE that's left after the gun is fired is what is corrosive. I ALWAYS clean black powder weapons as soon as possible after shooting. I also load my guns and sometimes don't shoot them for weeks or even months. As long as they're kept dry, they won't get corroded from the powder sitting in the chambers. Once you slip a cap on them, they still go off, even after being loaded forever.
I've read that there were weapons from the Civil War that were still loaded and went off when capped!
@@thatsmrharley2u2 yup, as long as it doesnt get wet
but i think, after it dries, it would still go off.... but probably with slightly less power
havent tested that one....
didnt want to soak my friends guns in water...... kinda bad manners lol
I believe the proper term is "hygroscopic". Thanks for the interesting video.
I've been a black powder shooter for many years, and have used Pyrodex for a lot of shooting too. Pyrodex is fine for use with cap and ball shooting. It is OK to use as a PROPELLANT with flintlocks also, but the biggest difference I have found is as a PAN POWDER with flintlocks. Pyrodex does not ignite anywhere NEAR as easily as black powder from a flint and steel spark in a flintlock. There is where it really falls down. If you are using flintlock weapons, stick to black powder, especially for the pan.
I grind mine down all by hand and rock stones like the Indians did there corn I turn it to powder looks like flower when I'm all done and it never ever fails to ignite now cap and ball.or flint lock it great stuff so don't be afraid to grind it down real fine so it then ignites like no tommrow
Took up the cap and ball hobby back in the 80s. Shot both black powder and pyrodex. I have learned over the years that pyrodex has a shelf life and will barely push a ball out the barrel. Black powder of the same age is still rocking. Thanks for the video!
Really?
@@thomastevelde8547 yes sir’
I have had mine for 19 years same Pyro in same can and it shots just as well no differents wonder if you got moisture any way yeah 19 years old and other day I made some loads and she kicked like a mule
I have had mine for 22 years Pyro and it burns 🔥 like the day grandpa got it 👍 now if moisture gets in it even the smallest amount will ruin it
Warning about Pyrodex. Pyrodex fouling is extremely corrosive and will quickly pit carbon steel barrels if not cleaned immediately after the range session. Hodgdon 777 is much less corrosive than Pyrodex, but still corrosive and should also be cleaned immediately after the range session. Real Black Powder is minimally corrosive, as the fouling absorbs moisture from the air and the salts in BP fouling combined with moisture will slowly cause rust on carbon steel.
Pyrodex, Hodgdon 777 and BP fouling will all easily clean with just plain water. The "Moose Milk" Ballistol/ Water mix is excellent as Ballistol is very alkaline and will neutralize the acids that make Pyrodex and Hodgdon 777 so corrosive to carbon steel.
63DW89A your very right about that. I had a ruger old army in stainless and used pyrodex once. After I thought I had cleaned it thouroghly I missed some on the hammer and it pitted! Last time I used that.
777 is my go to for a substitute but obviously love the real deal better.
I routinely shoot Pyrodex P in my cap and ball pistols. I do not always clean these pistols immediately and have had no problems with pitting.
I have the same problem. I only tear mine down completely twice a year after around 400 shots. Most of the time I just wipe it down with baby wipes and just re-oil and grease the reel. I won't even scrub the barrel just push it a few times and it has no damage.
Something else must be at work there. I use same method to clean weapons whether shooting real black powder or one of the subs. Never have had a problem with corrosion in any of my dozen or so black powder guns. Certainly no rifling was "eaten".
The man who invented pyrodex unintentionally blew himself up
In my limited experience, Pyrodex cakes up and can take some elbow grease to remove, but real black powder just melts away with water and balistol. Plus real black powder makes more smoke and fire haha can't beat that!
pluz real BP has a nicer deeper sounding boom too.
Ba-boom! Only kind of smoking habit that I have, by God. Lol!
I prefer real black powder but from the early 80's till around 2000 all I shot was Pyrodex RS or P because it's all I could find locally. Ordering real BP was always a financial decision due to the shipping and hazmat fees.
At far as cleanup.. I have never found one harder to clean than the other when used in guns using patched round ball, lubed wads or conicals with lube rings.
But in modern in lines using plastic sabots that are not lubed Pyrodex leaves a hard dry crusty fouling that requires more effort to clean than real blackpowder does. With the bore being crusty dry in an inline Pyrodex will absorb moisture much faster than Black and rust will form faster.
Black poweder is realy explosive pera just burns. Black powder is defenly a good one.
Pyrodex use olive oil or vegetable oil to clean. Bio oil the pyrodex just melts and I have no rust. Also after the 3 swabs all you are getting is graphite.
I'll never forget a discussion I was having with a friend about black powder shooting. He had a slip of the tongue and referred to Bore Butter as "ball butter" which I still laugh about!
+Dustin Winegar, your observations are absolutely correct about how easy BP fouling actually is to clean. In reloading 45 Colt with Pyrodex, Hodgdon 777 and real BP, the one thing that impressed me was how much easier the BP fouling cleaned off the brass than did Pyrodex and Hodgdon 777. Pyrodex actually discolored the brass so much that I now rarely load Pyrodex in cartridges. Hodgdon 777 will also discolor the brass, but not as much as Pyrodex. BP darkens the fired brass, but seems to clean off easily and not be a permanent discoloration as is Pyrodex and Hodgdon 777 fired brass.
Cowboy action shooters that use 12 gauge all brass shells, drop them immediately into a jug of water and soap at the range and only use black powder. They use the same shells for many years.
Hello I have a 44 pietta and I load with pyrodex rs which is equivalent to ffg I load at 1.50 grams and sometimes at 2 grams can you tell me if I take. Risks .... thank you to you
Barkeeper's friend is a great compound to remove the discoloration from the brass. Wipe on, wipe off.
I've got an 1860 army. Hot water, dawn dish soap. Extremely easy to clean. Bore brush , toothbrush, pipe clearer.
Been shooting Pyrodex & BP pretty much interchangeably since the late 60's, and never paid any attention to one vs the other being any easier/more difficult to clean up after. I disassemble my Colt or Remington, then into the sink fulled with warm soapy water it goes. I use a nylon bore brush and also toothbrushes in cleaning. Never found it necessary to use any spiffy elixirs named after large grazing animals, although I have been known to use WD-40 to displace water, as it was formulated to do.
I have today a particular 1861 Navy Dad bought, and it still looks and functions as new. It was my job to disassemble, clean and reassemble it after every trip to the range.
I've been shooting black powder since the mid 1980s and have always preferred Goex over Pyrodex. The problem now is FINDING Goex black powder. I don't worry about the extra price.
I recently discovered a Goex dealer in Evanston, Wyoming, who sells it for $17.50 per pound. I don’t know if that helps you, but I was impressed by the price. Thanks for watching!
Track of the Wolf sells black powder. Have to buy a case at a time (24 cans), but the mix in that case can be whatever you want. Not so good for an individual, but if several club members got together, the club could make the purchase and distribute according to what each member ordered. Also Buffalo Arms sells black powder. They require 5 pounds per order, brand or size your choice.
@@kirkboswell2575 Plus shipping. Big extra expense
@@thatsmrharley2u2 - "Plus shipping" is always a consideration, but if you can't find it anywhere else, you just bite the bullet or use a substitute.
All in all, I'm generally satisfied with the substitutes, but real black powder is the best IMO. Soap and water cleanup if you use natural lubes and avoid petroleum products.
Pyrodex is indeed safer in that it is less prone to accidental discharge and has all the same basic ingredients of Black powder with added ingredients to make it more stable. Contrary to what the naysayers claim it IS real Black Powder with added ingredients. It is no more worse on your gun than Black powder is when not cleaned. They'll both rust it out in a hurry if you neglect it. On top of the added safety benefits, it is very easy to find at just about any local gun shop and many big box retailers. No hazmat fee nonsense.
That being said, the exact Black Powder experience still has never been duplicated with any substitute. Pyrodex is the absolute closest, but still not exactly the same. If you want to use the same exact powder and get the same exact boom and exact aroma that they had during the civil war and even hundreds of years before that, then Black Powder is for you. It demands more care and respect than any other gunpowder though. As long as you treat it with care it will be nice to you. Abuse it, and it will destroy your life in the blink of an eye. The words "BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY" need to be regarded as absolute gospel with Black Powder.
I use dawn dish soap and hot water, followed up with gun oil,
Don Bahn , wow so do I ! I clean ‘em right in the kitchen sinks ! When the wife is not around! Lol ! Thought I was the only one! I’ll even run the water hot out of the Sink Fossett run the brass brush out the barrel under the water and back in till the water turn clean!
Powerback2thepeople When I got my very first front stuffer at 12 years old, the good ol' boy gun dealer told me and Dad to go and see some local 'hill boys' big into blackpowder. They said don't bother with solvents-just get a bucket of hot, soapy water for cleaning, pillow ticking for patches, and Crisco for lube.
Do the same. Though, you have to make sure to properly dry it off, else it'll rust if you store for long.
I'd use our air compressor with an air nozzle that had about a 6" straight end. Perfect for blowing out any residue in the barrel, lock and overall. Then I'd go liberal with the gun oil. When I'd next get it out I'd run a swab down the barrel to remove any excess oil and pop a cap or two.
I clean mine in the kitchen siink too. I quit using deterent and just scalding water. It cleans the fouling and residue right off. But you sure have to dry it all with rags, etc and then oil them up. For muskets I would bring water to bowl and with a funnel I would pour boiling water down the barrel until the black water pouring out the nipple hole was clear. Then dry and oil. @@Powerback2thepeople
I've hunted with black powder and shoot on the range with black powder and a friend using piradex and I saw no deference. I think you drew the same conclusions as I did and my Dad did. Thanks for the video
Hey, Dustin. Thanks for all the great videos and information! You have provided a lot of us with a stable and reliable source on black powder sporting over the years. On a second note though, I thought I would put my 2 cents in on the subject of both pyrodex and black powder. I have had some varying results with, pyrodex. Seems to me, to be more of a climate related issue. It's a lot more hygroscopic than black powder in my experience. I have seen it rust in less than 30 minutes (and fairly badly) in real humid climates but take 4 days or more in really dry/arid climates. I have done burn tests on steel plates and have concluded the same results. In montana I can go 2 or so days without cleaning with no sign of rust.I have not and will not do that, but I could if I had to. Mine all get cleaned religiously after every session as should be done with black powder firearms. Also before I forget, to my knowledge black powder only produces sulphuric acid when burnt whereas pyrodex produces sulphuric acid and hydrochloric acid, these acids when combined create a chemical reaction with steel that first etches then pits metal when in contact with any humidity in the air or direct water. A acid neutralizing substance like baking soda will be your best friend and "baking soda baths" have been used for a long time to neutralize sulphuric acid. Just my experience, as always use at your own discretion. And again, thank you for all you do for the black powder community!
I've been shooting Black Powder firearms since the 90's , most were shot with Pyrodex since most stores will not carry real black powder since its a explosive.
The inside of those patches is still clean so I turn them over and use both sides.
Thanks for dispelling one of the many myths about Pyrodex. When I started shooting muzzleloaders, I bought into the Pyrodex propaganda (cleaner shooting, cleans easier, etc.) I found during my muzzleloading range sessions that the bores fouled quicker and had a crustier fouling than BP, and it was harder to clean afterwards. Once I was able to find a reliable BP dealer in my area, and shot BP exclusively, I haven't shot Pryodex since. BP fouling is softer and the bore is easier to clean. I find consistent accuracy is easier to obtain with BP. I'm not even going to mention the toxic gasses emitted from Pyrodex. Anyone want a couple of pounds of old Pyrodex?
Thanks for watching!
the main reason I went to Pyrodex you can't always get black powder due to the strict rules & regulations!!
The storage requirements of BP are now so onerous (because the people who make the rules are afraid of it) that very few stores will actually carry it anymore. A rep at the local Sportsman's Warehouse talked to me for a while about what they'd have to go through if they wanted to continue to sell it over the counter as they used to do. If you want actual BP, your best bet now is to order it online and deal with the handling fees. That means that you're best off ordering a two year supply or getting together with some friends to combine orders since to offset the cost of the fees, there's a minimum quantity before it becomes viable and while many of us are quite enthusiastic about our BP shooting, a pound of powder can last a good while. When you have to order five pounds at a time for it to be cost effective, well, better to buy as a group.
A chronograph would have been really helpful
Agreed. I wanted to do that, but didn't have access to one. Definitely in a future video though. Thanks for watching!
@Brian Perkins so why are you here ! I am here because there is nothing at all related to this on tv . Already knew the outcome to this subject , shooting black powder when this guy was shiting green . And now that I am done with this vid , and making the mistake of reading from trolls , it's raining out so I am going to watch another and hopefully you did not comment on any of those .
Dustin, another nice video. I was told that the Pyrodex was more corrosive than the black powder and harder to remove than black powder. Your video seems to prove this.
In my limited experience, Pyrodex is frighteningly corrosive. A delay in cleaning destroyed my first muzzle loading pistol. Pyrodex may be easier to buy than Goex, but I have no plans to burn that last 3/4 pound of Pryodex P I still have.
Just be mindful to clean when you're done. Or turn it into fireworks.
I use pyrodex in my shotgun. Load up cartridges with it 75 grains by volume same volume of shot. Great little load on rabbit's and pigeons. Best wishes from the uk
Finally, a super helpful powder guide amongst all this other confusion.
Very helpful, Dustin. I like how you reiterated the volume note.
Thank you, good sir!
Thanks for posting this. I will be using black powder instead of Pyrodex. Very informative and excellent presentation and editing.
Thanks for watching!
There is nothing more satisfying than reloading your shotgun shells with black powder and seeing all the smoke coming out of the barrel of your single-shot gun!
Yep a chrony really would have been cool data
Absolutely! I don’t have one, but I’m getting one fairly soon. As soon as I do, I’ll do a follow-up to this video. Thanks for watching!
I look forward to the chrony results. When you do it try to get some 777 too as a lot of folks say it is more powerful than either of the others.
Excellent video brother good comparison I've never used Pyrex but we just continue on my grandfather's tradition of making our own powder I've been doing it since I was a boy, kind of an extra buzz shooting your own powder out of your own gun😁
Also brother I forgot to say I subbed and gave you a thumbs up if you get a chance check mine out😁
That's awesome that you make your own. I haven't done that yet, but I plan to in the future. Thanks for watching!
Yankees Outdoor Adventures, will do!
I make my own, too. It's an art, and takes lots of practice.
Pyrex ! hahahahahaha shooting tempered glass, are we? Just kidding, man. Making your own powder is what my grampa would have done out on the prairie back 100 years ago.
Appreciate the correction in the description. Also, first time I have seen anyone use a jag. I have always used a patch holder. I might invest in a jag and try it out for myself
To me, it seems like the jag pushes the patch into the rifling a bit better. Cabela’s sells a nice set for about $18 and it includes most calibers. Thanks for watching!
Dustin Winegar Yes, It definitely engages the rifling better!👍
Glad you like it!
I may try one of those jag!
Much appreciated, solid tests and easy to replicate. Thanks for bringing this to us!
Thanks for watching! If you’re interested, there’s a link in the description to part two, in which I compared them with a chronograph.
Black powder has the smell of history.
And burned sulfur
Not having shot the real black powder out of my 1858 NM Rem 45 CB, It was a royal pain cleaning pyrodex, I'd strip the stocks off the pistol and soak in hot water and dawn dish soap. then spend the next two hours scrubbing the snot out of the pistol to get it clean. That 1873 black powder cleaning job looked like a dirty smokeless pistol cleaning job. Far better then anything I've done with pistols. Good job and great work
I think the main advantage of Pyrodex is it isn't an "explosive" under fed law.
I hope that brush has a brass tip, not a steel one!
But you have to pay hazmat shipping so it is an explosive. Even says so on the bottle.
I've ordered my first cap and ball, a Pietta 1851 Navy. How lucky for me to have asked myself this question. And, how lucky for me to have found your quite revealing video on the topic! 👍
Windex: Cleans all powder buildup, then boils away in moments without a trace.
I've also noticed pyrodex packs down way more than real black powder in the cylinder
The burning question is...Does pyrodex throw flames?..I want flames and smoke when I shoot my .50 flintlock, that way the critter dies of heart attack if I miss.
"I like my venison flame-seared before it hits the ground!"
It does flame up. Sparks fly out.
if you have a flintlock. dont buy pyrodex. its hard to ignite in cap guns, your flintlock simply wont go bang.
@@yourredcomrade717 I dont know who told you that bs but a flintlock is not a cap gun. Also, people use pyrodex everyday in flintlocks.
Black powder while seemingly a simple chemical composition, can vary greatly, for reasons my beyond my simple understanding of chemistry. Some seems to burn "wet" some "dry" and really crusty. Looks like the goex you tried went well for you. Pyrodex is a little bit rare and expensive here and I can only recall burning one can as an experiment years ago. I do remember that I couldnt see any advantage, was really dry and hard to clean so I concur with your finding as most BP I have played with was relatively easy to clean up after. (boiling water and dish wash soap) Also here in NZ we have locally made BP so for that reason I tend to run with that. Good video, thanks for posting
Thanks for the comparison. I've used BP instead of Pyrodex because BP is cheaper(because I make my own). The only comparison you didn't do is to use it as a parachute ejection propellant(rocketry) which I have. My one try of Pyrodex this way resulted in a damaged rocket that had to have the body repaired when Pyrodex blew a hole thru the airframe. Although Pyrodex burns slower in the open, when under pressure it may actually burn faster and produce a pressure spike. As for ease of cleaning I have found similar results to yours. One propellant that is really easy to clean is "crimson powder" used for parachute ejection charges. It cleans up with a damp rag. But, it's not recommended for firearms.
I Roll my own as well for Pyro Lift powder & for muzzleloaders bp is far superior for my uses but my flash powder is the 💩 for Report 😁
"Do not try this at home." I did many years ago. In my driveway and it flared in my face. The next day working at the factory my coworkers asked me why I had no eyebrows.
It’s unfortunate that the powder measure that measures by volume uses grains as the unit of measurement. As you already know I am sure, grains is in fact only a measurement of weight. But I do get it now.
It was very confusing because as a seasoned reloader (of smokeless powder) volume and mass are both very important, but they are actually entirely different. Richard Lee discusses this at length (ad nauseum really) in the Modern Reloading book. He states that he wishes all reloading was measured by volume instead of mass and explains why.
Thanks for the video to help me understand. I can easily buy Pyrodex locally with no hazmat fee, which is attractive, and now I won’t worry about it.
Random guy...
You are correct... grains is only a measuement of weight and there is no such thing as grains by volume.
The problem is that there is no standardization of volume type measures and for what granulation of powder.
The term people are looking for is "Volume Equivalent "!
I've shot for a while with 50-70 and 45-110 with 2f black and have never had a problem cleaning either rifle. I scrub the bore with clear transmission fluid after firing (at the range) and oil everything after. Every couple weeks I tear the rifles down and clean with a mix of very hot water and Murphy's oil soap. I have never had a problem with getting these rifles clean, or any rust.....as for Pyrodex, more expensive here (by weight) than Goes 2f, so I can't be bothered. Good vid though. Thanks for uploading.
I found that Pyrodex burns very dirty. I could only manage about 12 shots out of my revolvers. Since switching over to Triple 7, I can easily get over 60 shots out of them.
That sounds like something else is at play as triple seven is just hogdons synthetic powder. It is advertised as burning clean, but if you can only manage 12 shots on pyrodex there is definitely something wrong.
I saw this video before I made the leap and ordered some Black Powder. I have noticed a few benefits of Black powder over pyrodex, first is BP is actually less corrosive, I don’t care about semantics the fact is the guns tried in rust overnight or sooner with pyrodex but BP is more forgiving even not rusting yet at 2-3 days and even weeks after shooting it. The BP does clean easier, water soluble so I just use water and the cleaner of my choice, usually scrubbing bubbles bathroom cleaner or generic and scrubs with cleaning brushes and bore brushes. Works almost too well. I will say watching BP videos and talking to folks in BP forums helped me decide to take the chance and order some and now I have no use for pyrodex.
“Don’t try this at home”. Why do you get to have all the fun? 😛
LOL!! Well... just do it at your own risk then. Thanks for watching!
@@GunsOfTheWest I still have eyebrows!
Bob Hall l
I thought I was a mad man. I used pyrodex and 777 because I was told it is cleaner and was easier to remove from the gun than Goex. Well I came across a gun shop that carried black powder so I figured I would buy a pound and try it. Well to my amazement it let me shoot longer before the cylinder would start getting bound up and was not harder to clean. Needless to say I went back and bought more black powder and that's all I use now. Thank you for the video. Every time I tell that to another shooter I can see they think I'm a mad man.
BP is classified as an explosive - gun store dude said that they were instructed to treat the customer as a potential terrorist last time I was shopping - Willits CA, 2005. The other types are "propellant"... so maybe different in other areas and you can still buy the "real stuff" outside the peoples republic.
Victor Boucher your gunstore dude is an idiot
FYI: I don't know about the other 49 states, but in Louisiana the State Police considers more than five pounds of black powder, in bulk, as an explosive, and needs to be stored in a magazine. A person can possess more than five pounds as long as it is divided into five pound lots and stored in separate secured buildings.
California is about the least firearm friendly state in the country. I couldn't live there. But hats off to you.
@@fordguy61mi you're forgetting the 999 other reasons not to live there lmao
I've been told that Pyrodex doesn't have a long shelf life where as Black Powder's shelf life is indefinite if stored properly. As a child, some 70 years ago I found a keg of Black Powder in a pantry along with black powder 10 gauged shotgun cartilages, primed and ready to load. I'm sure that this stuff dated back in the early 1900 hundreds or late 1800 hundreds. The powder was still very potent as I experimented with it. Yes, it was a no, no, but my brother and I hid it from our parents. The farm was established in 1798 and the house was rebuilt in 1802, containing things dating back to that time. I don't thing that they threw anything away.
Wow, that's a cool story and a proof that BP lasts for a long time if stored in a dry environment.
When you light the 2 powders in the open air you can really tell the difference between a explosive(black powder) and a propellant(pyrodex).
Thanks Dustin...learning more every day thanks to you!!!
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
I like Blackpowder ,it shoots much tighter groups in my Rifle than Pyrodex,but it can be hard to find ,in some places.
Really enjoyed the video thank you
I changed over to black powder years ago. Two things made my mind up for me. I got better accuracy with black powder than with pyrodex and I started shooting flintlocks. I never was able to get a flint lock to go off with pyrodex unles I loaded a black powder "starter" load and used a black powder pan charge.
Thanks for watching!
Try Swiss black powder. Order your black powder online 25 lbs and store it safely. Black powder is much more accurate due to more consistent performance than smokeless. Continue with your research and videos. You are doing an excellent job.. Thank you.
Thank you very much!
NEVER EVER use smokeless powder in a flint or caplock! It's higher pressures make it very dangerous in a firearm not made to withstand them! Smokeless is intended to be used only in MODERN cartridge firing guns
This guy is super night I went to a website to find some stuff for my revolver and he called Back twice in one day Day after I called him and we talked for like 25 minutes he was super nice I'll support this guy's channel anyday
I've been shooting all my life and it's only in the last couple of years here, on youtube, that I have even heard of balistol. This is the first time I've actually seen it because I've never seen it in stores. So far though, Hoppes9 from walmart is working fine.
Hoppes 9 is a more aggressive cleaner and, in my opinion, better than Ballistol for modern guns. For black powder guns though, water and Ballistol are fantastic. Thanks for watching!
scott: Yeah...Hoppes9 is great for smokeless residue...but if you're using it to clean black powder...you might want to make sure you neutralize the salts with something water based first. I could be wrong...but from what I've heard and read...Hoppes9 doesn't do a very good job of neutralizing BP residue. Dustin's right...Hoppes9 for smokeless powder...and Balistol/water for BP.
I use Ballistol exclusively. Not only is it good as a cleaner, but is also a good lube, for firearms and your leather!
Windex works great too. Melts away the residue in seconds. A couple of patches sprayed with windex followed by dry patches till clean. I always flip my patch and run it on the other side also until they start to come through clean. Use less patches that way.
Try machinists, water soluable oil and water for moose milk with 10 to 1 mix....1 part water soluable oil to 10 parts water, with a drop or two of Dawn. This works great for cleaning and lightly oils the bore during shooting sessions.
One of the things that I always hear proponents of pyrodex claim is that it is less corrosive than BP. In my own experience I havent found this to be true, in fact, i find just the opposite. I'd like to see you test it. Get a plate of steel, clean it up good, burn a pile of each kind of powder on it, side by side, leave it out in the elements for a week and then compare.
That’s actually on my to-do list. Thanks for watching!
I like the Goex original black power. I couldn’t believe how crusty the pyrodex was and. Down side is blackpowder is controlled by BATFE and they make it really difficult for retail store to carry it.
Thanks for watching!
You can't use black powder in a cannon
Thanks for the video. An excellent video and good information that is not commonly passed. As far as cleaning either, use hot water, hot water, and hot water.
I would like to add that either is okay for precussion cap, but ONLY backpowder can be used in a flintlocks.
You’re absolutely right about flintlocks. Thanks for watching!
You are right... it is a myth... black powder is easier clean. Also reviews years ago pyrodex use to claim it wasn't as corrosive as BP...in fact I remember one guy saying you could let it set for a couple weeks before cleaning.. this is also a myth... and a good way to pit up you gun...I think it's a lot more corrosive than BP....also it's just as smokey, if not more smokey... as your video shows...lastly the smell is not the same .. BP has that sulphur smell...some people say it stinks like rotten eggs. Not me. I prefer it over the smell of the Pyrodex.
There's a lot of substitutes out on the market. Pyrodex being the worst. And none of them as good as good old black powder.
I started out using black powder back in the 1980's in my smokepole. I switched to Pyrodex in the mid 90's. To be truthful, I really couldn't tell any difference in performance. Pyrodex is simply easier to find and purchase. Still using pyrodex today. Still having fun with muzzleloader hunting! I would really like to get a muzzleloader shotgun to complete my collection.
Thanks for watching!
Nice video that you've made. You are welcome. Besides, we "gun nuts" need to stay together and support one another! Carry on, troop!
Amen! Thanks again!
You can determine the weight of the approved by volume load for respective powders (as you demonstrated in this video) and then use that info to load phial tubes using a Lee perfect powder measure.
It's good practice to reload BP revolvers with measured phials rather than a powder flask - just to avoid that one time in a hundred when the chamber has a smouldering ember just waiting to turn your flask into a grenade.
I bought my Italian clone of a SAA so long ago I think it was less than $100. I only could find one type of factory ammo and thought it was quite mild. The handloading manuals also listed very light loads, so I assume the loads were for old original Colts with cast iron frames. One day I decided to make some black powder loads, and had quite a surprise. The only data I could find was "the bullet and the powder like to be chummy with each other" so I put in all the powder it could take and still leave room for the bullet. When I fired it I realized that thing was a real gun. The pansy factory loads made it seem to be more like a .22. I had never heard of Pyrodex back in those days, and I don't think I will try it now.
Great stuff. Thanks mate
Thanks for watching!
Thanks, Dustin. Great and very informative video.
I live in the uk and shoot clays every sunday. When ive finished my round i blow off a load of shells loaded 65 grains by volume to equal volume of shot in an old double barrel hammergun . Great fun smoke flames and destroyed targets pyrodex is great fun can load some very excessive loads and still not blow up in your face. Unlike nitro
When ? Before or after the Church Service.
I have used both Black Powder and Pyrodex and Black Powder is much better. I prefer the smell and feel of black powder, it cleans up very well with hot water and a light coat of oil after. In don't see a marked performance difference between the two when using my cap and ball pistols or rifles (muskets) but in my flintlocks the pyrodex has a higher fail to fire rate then the black powder does. I rarely have a fail to fire with black powder but with pyrodex I do have occasional pan ignition but failure to transmit through the touch hole or occasionally the flint sparks will fail to ignite the pyrodex in the pan.
can you please make a video of you milking a moose?
LOL!!
Boys or girls?
Dangerous Don if you want to see that you can buy a subscription to the website just like everybody else.
LOL!
Definitely need the "don't try this at home" disclaimer. LOL
Fascinating thank you. The pyrodex seems like a much safer alternative. Also, I appreciated seeing your bore cleaning technique.
the Lee Powder Measure is a good addition to your vid, but I'v never loaded my 1851 using any measure. My flask has 2 nipples, I believe the short one is 22 grains and the long one 30 grains. I have never checked them on a scale. I load 2 short nipple fulls for the 147 gr ball, and one long nipple full for the .452 cal 200gr SWC. I have the 1851 Navy w/brass frame for now on 20+ years. only failed me once, when it swallowed an expended cap. Replaced the small part that it broke, and it still works great. I think "volume" measuring works best with black powder or substitute.
Great video. Very clear and thanks for your great sense of video editing and good sound.
Thanks very much!
Blackpowder can be ordered online in quantities up to 50 lbs
Yep. But storing more than #4 requires a Federal explosives license, iirc. So get 10 friends to go in on the order with you so you can break it down into acceptably smaller lots once it arrives...
@@nunyabidniz2868 actually it's 50 lbs.
Anyone over 21 can order a case lot, and have it delivered to your door...does require an adult signiture upon receiving.
Besides who is going to check out your inventory???? Big brother?
The reason stores don't like stocking BP is that they are limited on quantity on hand and are required to have a special powder locker.
Thank you so much, for doing this. I am seriously considering buying a black powder revolver. And I’m learning a lot from you. Thank you. 🙏
You’re welcome!
You increased my knowledge today. Thank you very much for that.
Just curious how you got that nice white towel past the wife ;>)
35 grains by volume and 36 grains by weight. Grains is a measure of mass. The measuring device probably uses a standardized density so it indirectly gives an implied measurement of mass by volume, but grains is neither a measure of volume or weight. It is a measure of mass.
Still gave you a thumbs up.
Pyrodex was invented in the mid1970's, and the inventor, Dan Pawlak, was killed in an explosion at the Pyrodex factory in 1977.
Yeah, I realized that after uploading the video. I kick myself for misspeaking on that because it's too late to edit that. LOL!! I think the year was actually '75 (or thereabouts). I'll put a correction in the video description. Thanks for watching!
china doesn't like losing market share
David Edelen
I clean mine in the kitchen sink. I quit using detergent and got to using just scalding water. It cleans the fouling and residue right off. But you sure have to dry it all with rags, etc and then oil them up. For muskets I would bring water to bowl and with a funnel I would go ou tin the yarx and pour boiling water down the barrel until the black water pouring out the nipple hole was clear. Then dry and oil it up. I had a lot of BP guns in the 2980s. I wish i still had them.
love from Colorado Springs
Youare right about cleaning. Black is easier, especially with solvents that have a lot of water in them....
Thanks for watching!
I weigh all of my black powder and pyrodex loads...but first I find the volume load that gives me the accuracy I want..then I average about 20 volume measures by weight and I get fantastic accuracy
This was a real eye opener, thanks!
Pyrodex is cleaner and a little bit more powerful, but just a little bit.
Pyrodex is like tar. Really hard to clean and mixed with the cleaning liquid smells really, really bad.
Agreed.
I use natural lubes after cleaning and have found Pyrodex leaves a drier sooty fouling in my guns and it cleans up just as easy as Goex with hot water and Murphy's Oil mix.
When I first started shooting muzzleloaders, 36 years ago, I used modern gun cleaners and lubes and yes Pyrodex cleanup was like scrubbing tar from the gun.
The ONLY semi modern lube I use on my muzzleloaders now is Ballistol. Prior to shooting I do a thorough bore swab then light lube with bore butter. Makes for easy cleaning.
My preferred powder is Goex but if all I have or can find is Pyrodex then I jave no issues with it.
Not my experience. Have used both. Both clean up the same. No better, no worse, just tedious. Very important though.
As for the smell it is about 75-80% black powder ingredients (charcoal, Sulfur, and potassium nitrate) and that is all you really smell is the Sulfur smell. The graphite and potassium perchlorate and the less than 1% of other trade secret ingredients don't seem to contribute to any noticeable difference. Some say the Sulfur smell is a lot stronger with Pyrodex but I haven't noticed that much of a difference really.
I learned why black powder has the shiny appearance, the shiny is a sealer to keep the moisture content stable. It gets more volatile the dryer it gets
It's because they mix graphite with it to prevent it from being affected by static electricity.
Real black powder is easier to clean with hot water and soap
I clean my blackpowder guns with nearly boiling water and soap , rinse with nearly boiling clean water , dry with a clean pad. The barrel dries out almost immediately ; then I run an oil patch through and the cleaning is finished in less than 5 minutes . I have been cleaning my blackpowder guns like this for 50 years .
The Italian made BP revolvers are to be loaded w no more than 30 grains of bp. A little less for more accuracy. Say, 24 grains.. or 18 grains. Experiment. With caution
One can tell the difference of bp vs pyro per the flame-charge. For my money... black powder all the way. Instantaneous combustion. In lieu of 'delayed' combustion.
Also- you can load all 6 (after-all its a 6-shooter) and rotate the cylinder to in-between bores for a safe-lock cylinder. Thats what those notches are for. Duh! Hugs.
Not totally correct....many revolvers dob't have safety notches or pins between the cylinders.
That some nice scenery out there
Question: compare how badly they were fouled and how many cylinders one might fire with each BEFORE each would require cleaning...... the issue I have noticed is black powder fouls MORE than substitutes, so the pistol has to be cleaned more often. Also, did you think that black powder produces more smoke ?
Pyrodex came out in 1976. I looked all over Philadelphia, PA to buy my first can.
Yeah, as I mentioned in the description, I completely misspoke on the year Pyrodex came out. LOL!! Thanks for watching!
I haven't shot my black powder guns in a while. Since I haven't been able to find black powder lately. I have shot Pyrodex and feel like there is a delay. Do you feel you found a delay in pyrodex vs Black powder?
Sometimes there is. It doesn’t ignite as easily as black powder. Thanks for watching!
Make your own,
Thanks for a really informative vid about a subject that I needed to know more about.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Pyrodex is stupid. Half the reason for using a BP revolver is that it creates a smokescreen that lets you retreat to safety if necessary.
I laughed out loud when I read this one.. Good one.
The Original Gamer HAHAHAHHAHAH that's one of the funniest things I've ever read. That's like something you read in a comic book.
Lol
You are not serious I hope........unless you're playing some childrens game.
The Original Gamer Buckaroo, if you think the reason they used black powder was so they could create a smoke screen so they could duck a run after firing, then please stick with your video games. Don’t ever consider getting into target practice with a real firearm, your mind is not in the right place. As a matter of fact, get a mirror lay it on the floor, take your drawers off and squat over the mirror. Now if you’ll concentrate on what you see in the mirror you may also find out where your mind is. Happy hunting.
As I recall from GM/A school, black powder is considered a Low Explosive, with a burn rate of 1,600 feet per second.
Way back when, we didn't have goodies like your Moose Milk, we had to start out by boiling some water.
I've people say clean your Black Powder Pistol in warm soapy water?
Works great! I like moose milk though because it leaves a film of Ballistol behind. Sometimes though, I’ll just flush my bore and cylinder with hot, running water before using the moose milk. Thanks for watching!
That's how I always clean mine been using for 50+years!!
Yes.