Fantasia (1940) Sunflower comparison
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2015
- EDIT 2: Best quality Ultimate edition:
• Fantasia (1940) Sunflo...
All censored scenes in best quality:
• Fantasia (1940) All Ce...
EDIT: BETTER QUALITY VERSION:
• Fantasia (1940) Sunflo...
RAW footage form 35mm tape on my channel.
This is my best effort to recut all scenes with Sunflower and Otika Centaurettes and compare it with official DVD release.
Scenes with Sunflower taken from:
classiccartoons.blogspot.com/2...
![Finesse2Tymes - Pretty Ricky [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xIoP_mhYRT0/mqdefault.jpg)
Disney denies that Sunflower exists now. Maybe they're so ashamed of their racist attitudes at the time.
I guess back then it wasn't racist. That sad
Nah it was always racist they just didn't care because they could get away with it
Pretty much why they've never re-released Song of the South.
They're not ashamed at all, they're wary of people suing them for money, and bad publicity among parents. Disney is all about business.
Nobody seemed to mind until 30 years later.
Honestly I don't even know what is more racist.
Leaving that black girl in or removing her (ignorance to her very existance)
I would have leaved Sunflower but add an apology to every dvd
Fregalite I think they should've changed her design. They could've made Sunflower like a glowing blue little girl. No specific race, just blue. Then none of the centaurs would be any specific race, since they're all pink, green, blue, and gold.
But in terms of trying not to offend those who know about the original, taking her out was a good move.
good idea
I have A Fantasia tape, and it has 2 less racist looking black girls in it, but the black girl in this video should be removed, Because people would call Disney racist for how that girl looks.
They really should have.
Boy things have changed.
Jane Camisa this is why you need to use coma's
For the better, I'd say
Jane Camisa yes and for the worse!
BramHC87 Usually around the ages of 11-13 boy things do change....
lol
I think I saw the original one when i was small. I remember the littler one helping out, but I saw it as the child helping out older sisters. They were all funny colored, so seeing a "black" one didn't register in my brain.
Christina Wahlberg Bullshit
Parikchit Arun the only bs around here are all the people thinking everyone else is racist. You don't even know this person. Shut the fuck up.
Boy i didnt get what was censored until 3/4 into the video and then i was like, "Oh they took out the black centaur. Nice." I doubt kids would even understand
f5tornadeau it is racist , she is basically like a slave taking orders to the whites and shit so they Censored the racism and yea old times of racist Disney
This thing might be rasist, but hell, young kids often don't understand what rasism is. (at least if they didn't experienced it. And it's sad enough that there are still kids who have to deal with such Bullshit) but as I said, for children "race" and stuff don't matter. They don't see a video like this and say "oh this is rasist bs", they see it and think "oh she helped her friends/sisters" and "oh, that's mean!" cuz kids don't think like adults. So stop saying a person is rasist because they didn't think of things (like a animation) as kids like u do know. We learn and grow as we age and rasism is something we have to learn.. (or better not, but u get it)
This animation might be rasist, a kids view is (mostly) not.
They could have just remodeled her to look less offensive than remove her completely
That would've taken more time.
No, they COULD HAVE just left it the way it was! The way it was intended to be!
+Nguyet Bui So? At least then people wouldn't accuse it of being ridiculously offensive.
Nerd_Charmed I think covering the truth up even if it is wrong is the greater offense and injustice.
Pretending something isn't part of our societal history doesn't make it go away.
Disney Officially States "there was NEVER a character called Sunflower" in Fantasia You have PROVEN them to be LYING.
+Piggy-Pike Well, it could just have a different name, and they're actually telling the "truth."
+BB Child Butthey are NOT. Yo uare trying to invent truith that doesnt exist. there WAS a character IN FANTASIA called Sunflower...it's not open for a "Debate" it is a historical fact that DISNEY has removed from history. so please.....because it DOESN'T have a different name. That is the name of the character removed.
Dummy, he's saying that is the route they would take, instead of own up they would act like there was a loophole. Disney: "Oh you mean that little Black Centaur? Ohhhhh! That's really Daffodil, see we said there wasn't a girl named Sunflower and we were telling the truth."
Don't just strike back like you're fighting for some kind of justice.
They haven't just denied that there was a centaur called Sunflower in Fantasia, but they have denied that there was ever a black centaur. Whether or not you refer to her with her name, they repeat she doesn't exist. Anyone who has the original movie will know otherwise.
Funny, there are interviews saying otherwise. Also, there was a centaur named Ortika who looked identical to her, so there could have been a mix up.
You know, this reminds me of (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe her name was) Nana from Tom and Jerry. Everyone was saying how racist she was, a black slave working as a a maid. But I never saw it that way, I thought that was HER home, Tom was HER cat, that SHE was the woman of the home. And upon rewatching old Tom and Jerry, I can't find anything that ever suggested she was a slave. Was it her clothing? Because when I was younger, my grandmother used to wear something similar when it was time for Spring cleaning, and we're Mexicans btw, so don't go saying "Honey she was a slave." She was cleaning her own house.
You and me both. I always thought it was her house. Even watching it now I don't see her as a servant. I just think people want to bitch about it because they can and they're just being idiots.
I also thought it was her house, and have never seen her as a maid or slave. I thought the problem was how she was dressed, that's what I read
I never knew that i thought she was toms owner and it was her home
I always assumed she was Tom's owner too. Can't a black lady own a cat? It says more about the viewers than it does about the company if all they can see is a "racist" caricature where none is necessarily intended to be.
I always watched her as the owner of both the house and Tom. And what is the deal about her clothes? That was the attire of a housekeeper back then.
i still can't believe that some people think she was cut out for racist reasons. she w
as cut out bc she was drawn as a RACIST CARICATURE and disney didn't want to be associated w/ that
JennDragon also idiots cant differentiate time periods and appreciate things. Yes it was wrong but it showcases the norm f the time. It makes me feel like people are idiots when they dont realize this
Character*
JennDragon I mean... they’re probably more angry about the fact that Disney denied her existence completely, but sure okay
Flower Cat they were right, it is caricature. At least Google what you're correcting.
Walt Disney was racist
My Great Grandma must have had an old copy of this movie because when I watched it all the time at her house in the early 90's as a kid, Sunflower was in it, but I was just a kid, so I thought nothing of it.
Same. My mom had the original, and she let us watch it just like she let us read the original fairy tales (cinderella and so on). So I grew up with racist fantasia and stories where wolves ate little girls only to be cut open by woodsmen, have their stomachs lined with stones and then sewn back up... Or, you know, stories about girls who go to balls and attract princes, who then become the cause of her step-sisters' horrible self-mutilations...
My childhood was pretty awesome. ;D
(Edit to add: I DID recognize the slavery of sunflower as being bad, though. I don't know if I used the word racist, since I don't think I knew that term at the time really, but I knew it felt wrong and quizzed my mom about why 'that different looking horse girl' was being treated differently.)
*animalcrossing fan*
I'm not sure that term means what you think it means... You can't just dump that term out any time you remember something different. There's evidence she DID exist and was in the movie - as seen in the video above - so... No, time and space did not part ways to create an alternate universe with slight differences such as the omission of this character.
In order for that to be the case, there would have to be NOTHING to prove she was ever in the film EXCEPT for people's memories. Just like how everyone remembers BerenSTEIN Bears and not BerenSTAIN Bears, but there's absolutely no proof that was ever how it was spelled (outside of two documented typos that couldn't have spread to EVERYONE).
Nice try, though.
Locutette when you are born in Germany you know all gruesome tales by heart :D
KrDizzy14 same here.
KrDizzy14 my grandma too...
Ah so that's how magic works. Invisible black people.
googleplussucks do I find this funny
googleplussucks *why do I find this funny
That’s dark...
+Sweet_Soulgurl “Sushikitten_Animator” 4 so is the invisible darker horse lady
Yep. Black Magic.
Why the hell did YT recommend me to watch this once again? Stop.
Daniel Fonseca Gtfo of my reply section. I find this video kinda depressing, so I don't like seeing it in my recommendation section.
Daniel Fonseca But...
You're literally getting offended by my comment. You're one to talk. Aren't you a little young to be on the internet? You're acting like a bitchy preteen girl. Get off the internet.
Daniel Fonseca as I go on RUclips to see a shift in time in the world of Disney. I am saddednd at how classics have changed even with good intent. And with the tic of the clock the Disney struck down the evil that had infested it. After it was over I yerned to read the replays on sutch a video. On it I find the ponders as to why RUclips recemended this to him. A reasonable query. Why sould youtube want people to watch somthing not in there interest. Then I saw over the South horizon a reply. I expected others who pondered this. Instead I found a war. Not a flam war, no Its size was not grand enuff to be sutch. This was a lighter war, the war of a small flame. And as I read I knew this was truly the internet.
That was not what I was saying, jest stating what everyone knows, everything on the web will eventually lead to a flame war. Also look at my comment dose it really look like it was meant to be taken serenely, im jest an ass hole on the web with nothing better to do when i have a coled. Why am I even wrighting this I could be drinking mnt.dew... fuck this shit its dew time. Maybe i'll mix whiteout and livewire, i men there both citrus, i mean whit out is the only one called citrus but i think livewire is orange right. You know why the hell did they git rid of dew.S.A. i mean that shit was good. At least we still have throw back. OMG next time you go to QT or some other place with soda mixers make a villain mnt.dew it sound bad but it is the shit. Did you know Mnt.dew is owned by Pepsi? When worlds collide am i right. My friend used to think that monster mutant was part owned my mnt.dew. OMG I jest found a 12 pack of DEW.S.A. ONLINE, its from a site called soda emporium(soda-emporium.com/FRESH-12-Pk-Mountain-Dew-SA-soda-P5750590.aspx?Product_Search&) they have bottles to. I mean 10.99 is a bit much but its mnt.dew FUCKING MNT.DEW!!! Do you know the history of mnt.dew, look it up its actually really interesting, did you know mnt.dew has over 40 flavors out, and mnt.dew spiked is non alcoholic it jest has cactus juice. I really gada try that some time. I wish mnt.dew made something more powerful then kickstart I would drink the shit of that... not literally, i men I dont drink shit... you git what i mean. OMG do you know if mtn.dew seara blast will ever be soled in stores again, i know its a taco bell exclusive, but sometimes it comes out in stores. Oh shit now I want a taco. GTG
ROGER THAT why did everyone get offended by you,gosh fucking opressed snowflakes
It's funny because Disney denies her existence
Dingus Kahn well I mean, she doesn't exist anymore...
That's the Disney approach. Denying it happened. I prefer the Warner Bros approach. Leaving it uncensored, and explaining at the beginning why this was made, and also that it was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
Whovian Red That's interesting. Do you have an example of Warner Bros. doing that?
Whovian Red Ah, very smart. Explaining and saying why it's wrong is better than trying to cover your tracks.
I hope Disney at some point makes a cartoon where a little black centaur girl gets to go to the ball and isn't just a servant to all the others.
SciFiFangirlsFTW She's the real beauty here
SciFiFangirlsFTW this has to be made. Especially since Sunflower seems like a better character than all those stuck up centaurs combined
SciFiFangirlsFTW they did: Tiana
SciFiFangirlsFTW princess and the frog, aladdin, mulan, moana, there are lots of Disney movies with POC princesses and it makes me happy to say that. :)
The Wonderful World of Disney produced a version of Rodgers & Hammerstein's Cinderella starring Brandy in the title role
I see how this can be seen as racist and offensive, but I honestly found Sunflower to be extrodinarily cute.
BigTopFreakShow yeah you know what me too!!!
BigTopFreakShow and don't you find it sad she was just erased. They could have left her in, maybe, but just made her get herself ready and do her own thing like the others? Idk tho
Matt B but then they would have had to make a whole new animation for her.. its easier to remove something than to go back into traditional animation and make a new sunflower for all of those scenes. although i agree, it would have been nice if she could have been left in there just doing her own thing...
BigTopFreakShow IKR, I wish they just changed her roll so she could be part of it all. :(
Me too!
She's super cute and spunky, I agree that they could have changed her colors, made her someone's little sister or something instead of an actual servant. I do remember there being really pretty black centaurs with zebra bodies which I thought was the coolest thing ever as a kid, so it would've been nice to maybe have them as representation and have a bigger part on screen.
well its a historical cartoon from the past. We cant just lie that it didn't happen.
Shh they're watching you
metromelody18 they just did...
metromelody18 it's actively sold and profited on, come on man you know better.
Sure they can the Ministry of Truth will make it so.
metromelody18 They're half horses and you're worried about "accuracy"
The scenes make much more sense in the uncensored.
Yeah sadly it did
But you understand WHY it is wrong and NEEDS to be removed, right?
+tango1986 child, I can see your brain is still undeveloped, and I'm sorry to burst you out of your bubble here but it is wrong. This was a racist and is harmful. I know it's hard for you to come out of your comfort zone and understand but hopefully you'll grow and learn.
yeah... Maybe they could have just recolored one of the centors to make her black... That way its more clear this is just her job and its not a race thing.
To censor is to forbid some part of information to be received thus forbidding the past mistakes to be seen. these is no shame in admitting that segregation was wrong and people used to blindly follow unjust laws. Not all laws make sense today and only the few people can see that today.
Okay RUclips, I watched it.
Now would you *please* stop recommending it to me ?!?
Lysander
Dude, i thought i was the only one lol
Yeah that's not how RUclips works sorry.
Lysander RUclips:..... No....
Watching it doesn't help.
IKR
...She's wildly cute, though. She just wants to put her little flowers on everything! ❤
*whispers* she was the "unattractive" servant
Plus, they made her a donkey...
Where did they make her a donkey? Her tail is a horse's tail. Maybe a pony, since she's so small. Still, definitely a racist caricature.
She's not cute
hatsune memeku I understand that but they removed it because it reminded them of "slavery". I'm glad it wasn't a thing
Honestly disney had no way to win this. If they removed the character, people would complain about history and if they didn't, people would complain about racism. They just made the choice they thought it was better...
Natalia Flórez Someone would of said it was Racist and sued Disney. You to remember we live in a sensitive world now a days. We can’t have good things anymore without someone getting offended
They could have easily just changed her colors and _maybe_ her lips too. They already have multicolored centars so simply changing her colors would have made things better then it is now. She would still be in and it wouldn't be a big deal.
Cameo Shadowness true, but even in that case, it would still be a cover-up and people could consider it neglecting the history.
Overall though, it's generally a better idea to stop perpetuating the stereotype. There will always be evidence of the old character, like in this video; we can learn from that, and setting good examples.
Christian
eh... I understand what you mean...
Natalia Flórez It makes sense. Blackface is one of, if not the most, offense racial caricatures in the world. Not even Song of the South went so far as to have a character be in blackface, though they might as well have from how stereotyped they were. Disney did the right thing in editing Sunflower out, and I hope she never makes a resurgence.
As offencive as the original was, it seems a sad and mean to just cut sunflower out like that
Honestly keeping her would be really bad. It would really bad for Disney to be know as racist. But on the other hand it makes it seem like there trying to throw her under the cover. I like sunflower but the way she was showed was bad .
It's not really sad nor mean if you consider all the black children who watched this and thought, on the back of their minds, that this is all they'll be able to be. Someone who has to do everything for others, to obey. Consider all white children who'd watch this and think that there's nothing wrong with acting superior to someone with black skin. This is disgusting. Sunflower could've stayed as a black character if she wasn't portrayed like this. Huge lips colored white, "ugly" hairstyles, serving others and being the one left behind, this is blunt stereotyping and racism. She could've been a beautiful black creature with a cute afro or black hair, with the delicate facial expressions and hands like the other ones, maybe fuller lips; but this version is simply horrid. This is NOT how a minority should be represented if one wants awareness or equality, this just helps to build racism.
I disagree with that last statement, minorities or any ethnic group should be represented however the creator wants to, if it is in flattering ways or not, personally I'm more offended at the censored version. People need to learn to let the past go, stop covering it up, embrace it, learn from it and move on
+The ZombieMan Should be extremely easy to say that when you don't belong in said minority. It's easy for someone to simply ignore until it reaches them on a personal level. Instead of sympathy, give me empathy. Put yourself in a black person's shoes. Imagine if everyone held their purses upon seeing you, sat afar from you and treated you as inferior. This isn't for a day, it's for the rest of your life; it's hard and degrading.
+Aline Laura Its a Disney film.
You're acting like it's the sole cause for racist attitudes you seem to think all white people have which in itself is more racist than this film.
Have you ever looked at your racist beliefs against white people?
Was like "wait whats different-- o"
are you serious
Mi Mi Nothing you capitalist pig.
Ксавие Киллер I always wonder why the world is so messed up and awful and then I remember that there are fucktards like you in the world.
Mi Mi dude, they litteraly represented slaves
I am sorry. I don't see the big deal.
Sunflower's omission messed up the but with Bacchus/Dionysus... the edited version just shows the carpet magically unrolling for him. There are also moments where the non-black centaurettes appear to be looking back at someone, but we see no one. Now with CGI advances they could have swapped in an entirely different creature to replace Sunflower... also, if you are going through the trouble to remove all traces of a black character drawn in a racist way, why not make one of the remaining characters (who isn't a servant) black, or make all the centaurettes and centaurs blue, purple, or otherwise non-human coloured?
It's easier to just wipe the "mistake" under the carpet and act like it didn't happen, instead of editing everything else in order to make her fit in.
Cynthia Lagomorph exactly
*inhales*
BOI.
Manuella Auad
Manuella Auad *Inhales* DEAD MEME
Lacie Hinds *inhales* shut the fuck up
BabbyKissy Saadiq *inhales* HOW BOUT U
It may be just me, but any racial stuff aside, I kind of think that Sunflower's really cute!
Moe Lewis She is.
Moe Lewis Its really sad because Sunflower is an adorable character! I get the fact shes supposed to be a stereotype but thats old history and I just wanna hug the little darling. I wish they had done a couple more neutral looking scenes with her that could have remained in the film so she could stay a background character without the stereotypical roll she had in the 40s being as obvious. Seems reading the comments though some have interpreted her a slave and others as a little kid trying to help. Its very intriguing how everyone has a different view of her
+Ailions It's a shame because she is adorable and very much a product of the times. I get that some might feel uncomfortable with her but censoring her out just takes away from the picture. It's like how people want to censor Huck Finn because of how they refer to the character of Jim. Yes it's offensive but again it's a product of the times. That's how they spoke back then and cartoons during that time used stereotypes.
While I'd say we're more enlightened now, that doesn't mean we have to censor the past because it makes us uncomfortable.
YES! And her poses make her extra adorable!!
Agreed ☻♥
sunflower is my favourite! she's so cute!
i wish they could have done something different instead of just removing her completely..
like maybe re-making it so she looks less offensive, and making one of the more beautiful centaur's have dark skin too, so it's like she's the little sister instead of just a straight up servant..
ドッピオヴィネガー Yeah and it would have been nice to see other skin tones too. Diversity, you know?
Making one of the grown up centaurs black would be nice. They all are beautiful, including Sunflower, but I think changing the color of one of the big ladies would be the best choice. It's relevant to note that it was a different age, and the concept of racism was seen with different eyes. But I am glad Disney been giving for so many years space to diversity, specially in the past 30 years or even more. Characters like Moana, Mulan and Tiana are essential, because they show that there's diversity, and everyone is equal, and can be equally strong and beautiful.
ドッピオヴィネガー perhaps making the one she was trying to help look related to her so it just looks like she's trying to impress her stuck up sister?
ドッピオヴィネガー r
ドッピオヴィネガー That's honestly the best idea!
Rather than saying "OK we did the whole racial stereotyping thing in the 40s like ALL of Hollywood did and we're sorry let's learn from the mistakes of our past" Disney just said "Fuck it! We'll just CGI the black stereotype character out completely and pretend it never existed in the first place! That'll give us a reason to stick a deleted scene back in and charge through the nose for a collectors DVD!"
Racism was and still is a issue in society. Sweeping it under the carpet doesn't fix it. If anything Disney should be using their shady past to educate people about tolerance and exploitation. Not just denying it ever happened. Song of The South is another prime example of this.
I agree that Disney shouldn't sweep this under the rug. BUT, just from an artistic standpoint, this scene is far better off without Sunflower. Even if no one was offended, the character still clashes drastically with the rest of the tone, and completely ruins the mood.
Sandy Kemp I don't know if it will change anything but the house people are in different color soo....maybe ...nvm...
Sandy Kemp
You sir are so correct
warner bros does that with their cartoon DVDs
@@lizzychrome7630 nah, leave her in there
I really don't understand why people are shocked look at the time period it was made in. 🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ I'm not even mad it's not effecting me today so. Meh...
Lail Bailey look up Iuic classroom on RUclips
Good attitude.
Because SJ people from here feed with everything racist or which can be interpreted as such. Or they
e just some pussies.
Racism is still racism and time periods don't defend that. It was wrong then and it's wrong now. And I find a lot of people are more angry about the fact that it was taken out, like it didn't happen.
Kiki Melendez .... its not an issue because of the time it was created... morals don't change with time... :\ who was talking about using there brain again? i pray for your seeds im pretty sure u haven't secured a stable base of wealth for them thatll last when ur gone
That is some quality racism!
Kameari Kill Screen yep!
It is indeed!
Slim Shady *And here we see an edgy 10 year old being provocatively racist in his natural habitat - the RUclips's comment section*
Slim Shady Do you even know history!?
Kate t well he's right it wasn't deemed racist at the time but he's oh so wrong on the slave part.
i remember watching the final scene shown here and always wondered how the carpet was magically unrolling itself, but just put it down to magic. now i know it was sunflower all along. Besides it's strange that they didnt mind showing eroticised female human/horse hybrids with green or blue skin but a black one was not deemed to be acceptable.
I think it's becouse creating over sexualized males and females is Disney speciality :)
*****
good point
So the offensive depiction of a real life ethnic group with the use of a black centaur is comparable to the offensive depiction of what doesn't exist? I've never seen an ethnic group with blue and green skin so who exactly is Disney offending? Your point is insane and highly approving of disney's racism toward those of african descent
+Cee “Every one should know” Alexis No, what was offensive was that they used a stereotype, one that at the time was purposefully offensive. Disney himself was a very racist person because that's just what was normal when he was around.
Although I believe they should have kept her in as a record of history she is not a character that is deemed as acceptable nowadays.
+Rex888dA Actually I thought the problem was the depiction of sunflower being a slave?
Context is an uncomfortable reminder of what was once considered normal, but at least her design's cute.
i have the uncensored and censored versions. It is rather strange to see the girl be gone. I understand that it was racist, but the fact that she was just completely removed... is strange
Philip J. Fry Because it wasn't just the way she looked, it was the role she played in the sequence. It's simpler to edit something out all together than try to change the entire sequence for the one character which, because of her original role, is what would have had to be done.
It is weird. Her original role isn't the issue. They should have repainted her. Things magically happening now that she was doing is awkward to watch, especially the red carpet.
I don't know. The role isn't great either. I mean, the only black character is the apparent servant of all the white ladies, up to and including doing the centaur equivalent of shining shoes. It's a little too much.
Why couldn't they just change her skin tone like 4kids does anime
1993DJC I guess but in Disney there were tons of servants black and white ( aka Cinderella) was a servant to her richer step sisters. A repaint actually would have helped cause all the kids would have thought was ( oh they must be rich centaurs, or valuable, or that's a baby centaur trying to help the older ones get ready and be like them one day.
I kinda just was expecting nudity but whatever
idiosynchrony same
I was looking for horse pussy
sorry to let you down
Tiana wouldn't be proud.
I don't know why I feel the need to put this comment down, maybe because you're talking about a fictional character, or the fact that Tiana is Creole and not black.
When you wonder what kind of FBI agent gave them the uncensored scenes
If they can animate the character out of the frames, why not just change the color of the character so the overtones are removed?
The features would still remain and people could tell it was meant to be a pickinny
So, why not edit the offending features without removing the character?
Maybe they were cheap it would look too ugly.or expensive. I think they could leave her and just change the hair and color some of the other centuars or add some and it's fine.
I mean honestly hiding it and saying they didn't do it is worse than anything. It's like you're saying you never make mistakes. Seriously they should have just pulled their big boy pants up, apologized, and sold both the edited and unedited versions to make everyone happy. Personally, I find her so adorable I want to hug her.
She is adorable, but she is the ONLY black character and she is portrayed as someone who cares for others. What I mean is that if there was another black centaur, with soft facial expressions and delicate hands like the others, and they were ALL caring for each other, I would like that; but when this movie came out, kids watched it, and it wasn't cute. They told me to braid their hair and paint their nails, and if I said no they'd hit me and even throw rocks. Say things like "but blacks do it!". Kids are easily impressionable and unless you put yourself in our place, you will never understand why we're so glad they censored this.
If they did that, the should at least provide and explanation or apology beforehand as warner brothers did with some of their clips
Sketchanie please realize this was released in the 40s
I agree. Warner Brother puts warnings before some of their older cartoons that state "the cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following does not represent the Warner Bros. views of today's society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed." That is definitely the way to go about it and Disney did the complete opposite of that.
Sketchanie I wish that happen in history but people don't like confessing and point the finger to other people.
This is a reflection of the era that this was made in. Disney has always been sensitive to social issues such as racism. But Disney is also a company trying to please the masses, and since back then that kind of racism was widely accepted and not considered offensive, it went on. This happened in all over western media .. not just disney. The censorship happened because Disney was being sensitive to these things.
To ask why they didnt just change the character design of the black girl is ridiculous because you dont know how much it cost to produce that. Especially since it was "cartoons" they didnt really have the proper budget to recreate the whole thing just for one character. To change the character design of one character is to change the interactions of all the character in this entire sequence. With the black girl's role in this sequence clear as a lacky and a "slave", it would be ridiculous to try and salvage anyway part of that.
In any animated production, it is the biggest and most expensive risk to change a character after the film has been made. To remove the character all together and add a few throw away scenes is the cheapest and most feasable thing they could have done.
In that way, the least amount of animators (human beings) would suffer through that and they'd be righting something wrong. THIS WAS IN NO WAY DISNEY TRYING TO ERASE HER EXISTENCE. Think better.
Elisha Pablo "to change one character is to change all the characters interactions in the entire sequence." Like changing a little girl character I to a non existent character kind of change? I'm not saying they should change her to a white character, I think that would be pointless. I just think that they could've put a disclaimer saying "we will not erase any racist imagery in this film, by doing so we do not erase the fact that it happened" and top it off with something about how those who forget history are domed to repeat it, sort of like what WB does.
Elisha Pablo That's not true at all. Disney was never always sensitive to social issues. Just because you want to preserve Disney's innocence doesn't mean you should make up lies about it. Disney has never published works that have gone against their own beliefs and moral principles. Walt Disney was misogynistic, racist, and anti-Semitic. Even his grandchildren acknowledged it.
AWA THE BROWN that was a nightmare and Donald Duck woke up clad in stars and stripes and kissed a figurine of Lady Librity saying something along the lines of "I'm proud to be an American" get your context before you bring that up.
Could've just changed her color to something unnatural. Maybe green or purple
Blazeplaysgames I see your point, they probably could've done that but they wanted to go down the cheaper route by simply removing the cells for sunflower instead of recolering them.
When I was younger, Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 were the best frickin' thing to me, I absolutely LOVED it, Although I was always kinda confused when the carpet unrolled itself, now I know why it happens
I don't like how they treated sunflower. But I love her design. She looks like a gentle soul, and so nice. But treating her like that?? That's messed up.
oh I get why they got rid of the black centaur
RACISM AT ITS FINEST KIDS
Top kek
Ihaskittay did you just say kek?
ThatChainmecha you can read, can't you?
kekekekek
they edited the black centaur out because it was depicted as a "servant" to the other centaurs. it was also drawn with big red lips, a racist stereotype.
Instead of just erasing her completely they should have reimagined the character into something more realistic. Doesn't change the scene but everyone remembers Sunflower and she should have been portrayed in a more respectful way.
Truly
@Chuck Buskee But they could have changed it up, since there are actually 3 or 4 little "sunflower" girls (the hairstyles are a giveaway it's not just one girl: 4 braids, Single Sunflower, then 2 pigtail braids with flowers on the end
though the first shown polishing hooves and then rolling out the carpet might be the same; 4 braids on both )
SO maybe make the first Green, the one putting flowers in the tail can remain black, then the one holding the flower train could be blue or white.
Then just throw a few black recolors into the adult herds. Maybe the green/yellow female with pigtails during the presentation and there are easily 3 red males with blonde/brown hair that one or two could be switched out for a black pallete
Changes it from a slavery thing to a diverse herd with younger members.
cartoon....realistic
No, they shoulda left her as is
@@BaseballPlayer0 no
I remember watching the uncensored one as a kid and it never really registered to me what her role was or how it she was portrayed. It wasn't until I rewatched it as an adult that I come to the realization
I've been starring at the thumbnail for 20 minutes trying to see the difference.
Gotta love that magic carpet and how everything magically appeared and moved.
Honestly, I don't care that they edited put sunflower. To me, that racist caricature never really added anything to the film.
*out
I'd rather not see racism while enjoying the movie.
Hamza Rouri To me I think they shouldn't have even bothered adding Sunflower as a character, since it's obvious that their intentions were nothing but racist.
b1njjj95 I can't argue with that
+b1njjj95 Well it was the 40's, sadly most people were okay with that at the time... It was even considered child-friendly...
They removed my favorite character!
Safiya Smith The black centaur
Safiya Smith no, i don't want them to delete Song of the South entirely. I like Song of the South.
Tyler Groves yeah but the movie got it wrong and that was racist because shes the only one black and they made the others white and beautiful atleast make a beautiful black horse that’s raaaaciiisstttsttststsyitpprp
I'm black and I grew up watching these and loved Them, I understand that you had good intentions but you're altering a classic , and history ...
Wow- that's not even in my VHS copy that's 25-some-odd years old. This was my favorite sequence, such beautiful music and art. The little girl is really cute- so much sass! But yeh, that's not a good role for her. I could see an edited design romping around with the other goofballs during the party.
i think the edit was made in the 60s so that's why not even your VHS copy is "uncensored"
Megumi Goose still a racist caricature
Megumi Goose Yeah, true...
I JUST MADE THE 400th LIKE ON THIS COMMENT!!
Ronald Owens We see it right here.
Megumi Goose Same, I have a pretty old VHS version of Fantasia that I still watch from time to time and she's not in it. I wonder when exactly they made the edits...
its sad Sunny was cut out. the racist depictations aside she's got the most personality out of any one in the short. if only she wasn't drawn that way
Wynick Roaklain Yeah, they should've changed her to a glowing not-real-color-of-human-skin centaur to avoid offensiveness (this wasn't meant to be sarcastic I swear). But, I think they took her out completely in attempt to eradicate complaints from the public. That was a good move in terms of making the people happy.
Could have just re-coloured her to green or pink or whatever.
Ljuc - Agreed, it would have take virtually no effort to recolor a few of the cells to make her blue or orange or whatever. I get that she was removed because of the awful pantomime of her appearance but honestly I think it's more regrettable that they just made her disappear as the solution.
Bokin Foshaow without her it was kind of weird... like when the carpet move-in its own.
Bokin Foshaow absolutely. Sonny, if that's the name, was the star of these sequences.
They are mad cause there was a little stereotypical black character being a slave.
They are mad cause said character was removed.
... they tried!!!
Stop it !!
It was very distasteful to see this character being a slave and being portrayed as unattractive and they removed it....
Now what's the big deal ?
Where does it show her being unattractive because she is black or little kid? The fat drunk god didn't think blacks were unattractive since he had two black slaves attending him.
Sonnyra GdC I'm actually glad it was removed.
Were they actually slaves, or just servants or helpers like the cherubim
Removing it really isn’t an apology, it’s more of a denial that it ever happened. There should be an available uncensored cut of the film along with this cut so that Disney could have the censored version, but audiences wouldn’t be irritated by the removal.
Sonnyra GdC they shouldn't have done it in the first place
I saw the uncensored version and I watched that when I was 7
What's even more shocking is that people treat Fantasia as a kids movie in the first place.
It was originally made for an adult audience who wanted a melding of orchestral music and animation. You can blame Disney's marketing team for making it easily available for kids in the 80s and whatnot. Song of the South was intended for a family audience but not this.
People say that Sunflower is demeaning to black children and I completely understand where that's coming from, but this movie wasn't really meant for any children in the first place. Teenagers, on the other hand, could probably process some of the headier moments, like when the fat fuck in this clip is obviously drunk. Children (even me back when I was a little kid) would not comprehend that at their age and hell...I doubt they would completely comprehend the slave connotation with the black centaur, unless their parents raise hell about it (and they are not in the wrong either for that).
ahahah "the fat fuck", that one is Dionysus or Bacco!This entire part of the movie took ispiration from various myths both roman and greek, and I guess this is just one more reason why Fantasia should not be watched by young people.
Ha! You agree that the depiction of the black centaurettes is wrong, but at the same time you body-shame poor god Bacchus calling him a "fat fuck". There are also overweight people in the cinemas, GasmaskAvenger. :P
Victor Manteca
It ain't body shaming if one person calling someone else "a fat fuck" is also stricken with weight issues of their own, especially if its a real life overweight fellow calling a doodle "a fat fuck". Lighten up, buddy, it's just fun and games.
You surely missed the tongue-in-cheek icon in my tongue-in-cheek post. Voilà: :P
But, yeah, "fat fuck" is like the "n-word", only available for use by "b-people". Fat fuck myself, too. Also a lewd drunkard like cousin Bacchus.
GasmaskAvenger You can blame the 50's for that. Everthing became kid's stuff and heavily censored.
it is really weird to see the old roots of disney and what was normal at the time? i'm glad they changed it.
though.. i can't help but feel bad for Sunflower? i hope that she in the future can make a cameo in some other movie as a strong remodeled character. one that is her own person and isn't taking orders from nobody. i think that would be a great way for disney to acknowledge their wrongdoing in the past and show the audience that they have improved their view instead of completely lying to the audience about her existence.
This was the norm back then not a wrong doing
Thīnk2wīće i know, but now such things are considered wrong so i personally think it would be better to remodel her into a strong female character rather than pretending that it never happened
donut toast It was normal back in those days before everybody became PC and got offended by everything
you want to turn it into a strong black independant female.
because that wouldn't be stereotypical at all.
Even so, the real problem is Disney itself.
When you own the uncensored version
Saw a few black and white photos of the black centaurette ... thanks for showing the actual animation!
seriously I wanna asks those animators what made them think it was a good idea...all the other centaurs were super pretty and of course make the black one ugly for shame old disney for shame!
***** just trying to be like you mate
You don't watch Looney Tunes or Tom and Jerry a lot, do you?
This argument is gross
1:13 This part actually seems to be improved by the lack of Sunflower, since now it just looks like the carpet is magically being unrolled by an unseen person
Thats Otika not Sunflower
thanks Obama
The part where she freaks out and runs off as the guy rolls down the steps is really funny xD
Wow. I had never seen the uncensored version. I didn't even know there was one. that was horrible :O
+AlixxA7X so its okay if she was white right? gruyere brain
+Henri ledegueu What do you even mean?
+Henri ledegueu Ohhhhhhhhhhhh. ok nevermind. You're commenting stupid stuff on other people's comments too. gotcha
AlixxA7X What do you mean it was horrible?She was being cute little kid.She was doing everything a little girl should.
Ice Vulpix dude. no.
I think the main point some people are missing is that Disney, no matter how the times were, did NOT need to put sunflower in(at least not designed as a racial stereotype ). The phrase " if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all" flew right over Disney's head with this one.Sunflower was designed the way she was purely and utterly for the sake of spiting and opressing black people and I wouldn't be surprised if this whole scene was meant to make light of that sole fact, beautiful centaur ladies be damned.This movie would have been just as entertaining back then if sunflower had been a rabbit or a cupid.
Dean Aviram if ur aware black doesn't equal sassy and urban, then why did you 'redesign' this character to be that way? 🤔🤔🤔
+Dean Aviram
So you did a walking stereotype of her. That is even worse.
I feel like that's is already a portion of her character, based on what I saw, but it's cool you did a redesign, and sort of gave her an update! I kinda want to see it!
mone luve you do know what time period this was made in right ya dingus? Racism wasnt seen as wrong. Its like if today you thought a knock knock joke was funny and everyone thought it was but in the future they were seen as morally reprehensible. You have to take time and look at thw time period it was made and thw norms of the time before judging. Otherwise your a dumb dingus
I've never seen this footage before. That blows my mind!
this was my favorite fantasia scene growing up...how did I not know about this till now!!!??
It's nice to finally see this. Thank you.
your culture? wtf!?
i guess this film brings back the good ole days huh?
Yes because it's a part of our history. It sounds like you're looking for reasons to be angry.
Um. I'm heterosexual. Also, you're harassing me & making yourself look like an idiot. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
lol..jokeing dude..its a sport called extreme trolling..dont take it personal. :)
As an adult I feel it's important to see sunflower just to understand that we haven't come very far in this battle just yet, though I would be disheartened if a child had to watch this mockery in today's society. Children of color need all the uplifting and empowerment that we can possibly offer them.
bobbie rkt we haven't come very far? I didn't know black people are still forced to sit in the back of the bus or that they have to take the back entrance to what ever public establishment they go to or that inter racial couples are illegal oh wait black people can sit any where on the buss they can use the front door they can marry people of another race well shoot sounds like we've come pretty far from the 40s.
@@mrfisher1072 Wow, I know this comment is four years old now, but I really hope by now we can all agree that racial inequality goes beyond sitting wherever the hell people wanna sit on a bus. 🙄 Goes just a tad bit deeper than that, lol.
@@celestejones6315 it's been four years but my stance is the same I just have better arguments to back my opinion 🙂
@@mrfisher1072 Well, I can see a case for us making it a long way since the 40s, but I at least hope that acknowledgment doesn't get in the way of recognizing the ways in which we still have a long way to go. Otherwise, it's like if we were to make it only 1k in a 5k marathon and then telling ourselves we're already at the finish line because we've "made it so far"... 😕
I totally agree with the fact it is inappropriate but I think it's wrong to rewrite the past personally, for posterity and example it's useful to see the original version to explain to kids the harm caused by stereotyping and how people were treated in the past, also although they removed the one obviously insensitive character they only white wash it even more, some of the beautiful centaur characters should be of some colour too!
Emily Gilbey its the same reason they took the n word out of huck Finn they want to pretend it didn't happen
This really didn't seem racist to me cause it was a very human character
It seemed more racist to remove the black character
Honestly I hate the characters that are meant to be beautiful
I think you need to have some character to be a character
Not everyone would be as accepting of the fact that it was a different time though. Disney took the path of least resistance.
Thats so racict... how dare they take out the black character
SeanDS89 she was a slave what is the point that the original version was considered racist and the newer one isn't
Lmao
XD
I think ur missing the point
SeanDS89 nice
I get she was a bit racist, but erasing her doesn't do shit.
Fuck it, I'm done.
I know it's an insulting depiction of African Americans, but sunflower seemed like a very likeable character to me as a kid.
Scott Wood True
she's adorable
THIS ANSWERS SO MUCH
Well I'm glad this video remains. Can't learn from the past by rewriting it.
Sunflower = Crazy Eyes
OH SHIT
This is actually quite shocking
Tess H how is this only "slightly" racist
Oh man, my heart really went out to Sunflower when she got left behind the taller centaur ladies and couldn't see what they're looking at
there were the zebra girls tho?
That is some really racist shit, Disney. That was one of my favorite scenes as a child and I never realized how heavily it had been censored, my childhood has been somewhat ruined by how racist this was. Thankfully, my all time favorite part of Fantasia was the "Night on Bald Mountain" suite and hopefully that doesn't contain any sordid secrets... Mom says I would call the Devil "Daddy Bat" whenever he popped up on screen.
Ugh
Jesus, are you going to be ok?
rabid pandaren Don't worry, Night on Bald Mountain doesn't have any racism. Just this scene.
Oh please...
I love the people that are questioning how Sunflower was racist in any way. "I can't see how it's racist", either you're that uninformed and I am confused yet sorry for you, or you just don't care. There was a reason she had to be edited out.
eternagym right? I thought it was obviouser than a brick to the face... but then again there's people who are okay with trying to convert gay teens so I guess there'll always be ignorant assholes
eternagym It's just an old cartoon. Why you make such a huge deal about it? I watched many "racist" cartoons as a kid but they never made me racist because I was like "It's just a cartoon, nothing like the real life".
It racist bc the blacl gurl is worling for thr whites like slaves and they made every white person look pretty and the black one a lil off
But of vourse yiy woylndt understand u trunp supporter
Grinzeeva u think this is funny and Bitch I ain’t retarder and if u want we can fight one on one fr talk like pull up 🖕🏽🖕🏽
Oh God, all this talk of recommendations is making me think that this video is going to curse my recommend page XC
rw:thats right i remember from the old vhs one and i still have it till this very year and i still remember it.
Jesus that's horrifying. the level of casual racism in the original is creepy af
I guess this is the price we pay for being progressive: seeing our past edited for the future
Watching really old cartoons is fun because there is always some insane bs that jumpscares me every time it shows up, and they just bring it up so casually while my jaw is on the floor, then they move on to the next gag like nothing happened. Incredibly entertaining
In the original version, Sunflower rolls the carpet, but from the look of the edited print, it looks like the fauns gave the carpet an extra push while rolling it, so the carpet finishes rolling by itself and then the fauns dance across it.
it's just not the same without that black Horse girl
Boi becuase it had a racist depiction of blacks that they were useless and only good for labour but of course you wouldn't understand because it's not targeting you 😞
www.amazon.com/Cheerios-Honey-Nut-12-25-cereal/dp/B00VGIG3VA
Madame De Fer
Do you know her name?
Muttcake :D
Well, since it _was_ targeting _young_ black gals like me, I guess I'll have a say. I like her!
Rustic Night Vale wow someone who isn't incredibly sensitive that's hard to find
I don't see why people can't appreciate a movie that was written during a period in our culture where this was deemed acceptable? We've clearly moved away from such depictions of black people in the usa, what do we have to gain from blurring the line between history and today's culture?
Maybe that line was blurred for the younger audience of today that will most likely see the movie and interpret it differently than the way adults do. I mean, wasn't the movie released to be seen by children, not grown men and women who know that in today's society it is wrong to criticize people by their color. (Although some men and women still do)
Cameron Cameron Actually it's been admitted that Fantasia was Disney's attempt to reach an adult audience but giving that views of animation back then was worst then it is now it failed.
We've moved away from *blatant* depictions such as this but they are definitely more subtle now
+kenny322 He's saying that there's no point in still being offended by this because it's old and if something like that was made today people would call it out, everyone nowadays knows these depictions are wrong and the vast majority of people have little to no racist thoughts.
+kenny322 Also you can't say something's bad because it's racist and then make a remark that sounds like you're calling Christians retarded.
OMG I remember loving this movie when I was young!
so so so glad i didn't see the uncensored version as a kid,,,kinda sad seeing it now.....
I only have a few problems with Sunflower
1. She was drawn to be a stereotypical black person, with all of the features that were made to be derogatory
2. She was removed completely and the fact that she existed was swept under the rug
Only those two things because, people forget to realize that THATS how people lived then. The unedited Fantasia is a product of its time, like many other things. I don't see everyone going against the Bible because it says a woman who was raped has to get stoned. Christians pass it off as something from long ago (if they even know of it). But I do wish they had done something other than erase Sunflower completely. The clips look odd without her. And I know it would have been too much to add other black centaurs, but they could have just placed a cherub there instead of nothing.
It was women caught in adultery that were stoned.
1 As a black Christian woman the fact that they removed her bothers me. A lot. And makes me more then a little sad. Remembering the past matters and pushing it aside is like saying it never happened. #justiceforsunflower
2 the rape thing. That was the old testament. ap.lanexdev.com/APContent.aspx?category=12&article=2333 This link explains half as I talk about the other. The old testament was for the Jewish people. It was a Law for them to live under, after Jesus came and died, that Law was no longer needed. The Bible states that intercourse is for married people. And really frowns on sex before marriage, sex outside of marriage (cheating) or thinking about having sex with someone you're not married to (Adultery of the heart) So how does rape fit in or is okay?
www.nytimes.com/2007/11/29/opinion/29iht-edeltahawy.1.8528543.html
www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8969/christian-girls-muslim-men
www.huffingtonpost.com/kecia-ali/islam-sex-slavery_b_8004824.html
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/slavery.aspx
Stop saying that we're blind to it or God's okay with it. He's not. The Jewish people are not okay with it. The only time I can think of it in the bible, that says "stone a woman who has been raped" is if she doesn't fight back or scream. And that was talking about a woman under the faith, not how men should treat women. In other words if you don''t fight back you're okay with it but God's not.
ThePicturePixie thank you for such a well thought out and educative comment! Most people just go on a rant when talking about Christianity but you gave really good educative points in a very well mannered fashion! I really hope people read your whole reply so that any misunderstandings are put to rest.
The Bible says a lot of awful things. Love is good but not if it's homosexual love apparently. A woman who is raped deserves everything she gets because she let it happen, God had every right to kill a bunch of little Egyptian boys because their king wouldn't let the Jewish people go and made him take back his agreement more times than he would have on his own just to make his people suffer...
All I remember is one badass T Rex murdering stuff
I can't believe how mean people were..
And remember kids, whenever any object moves on its own in a disney movie, it used to be moved by a little black centaur in its original version...
I'm usually one for preserving the art as it originally stood, but this is one removal I totally agree with. A 20th century stereotype that is obviously being played for a cheap laugh is so jarringly out of step with the rest of the film, it degrades the presentation and detracts from the immersion. This had to have been among what the few negative critics of the film in 1940 were highlighting when they complained the animation robbed the music of its dignity.
I rather keep the originals no matter how offensive or racist they are. Whether we like it or not its part of our history. Taking a good hard look at cartoons or images of the past gives us a sense of how things were back then and the critical impact they have on us today. People need to stop trying to erase the past because it hurts. How the hell are we suppose make things right if we cover up what really happened?
*What a disaster that would’ve been.*
You will not be able to rewrite the history of the world.
1:14
I'm just gonna assumed the image on the right was magic carpet?
the fact is that the character is hideously designed based off of the stereotypical view of what black people look like. It's totally understandable that Disney wouldn't want something like that still being shown.
damn...i don't have words for that
This change was also in the VHS copy I have.