I was raised Mormon and am Queer. Here are somethings that I think are important to note from my experiences. (sorry if I ramble) The insistence of calling it same sex attraction is trying to separate a person's sexually attraction from who they are as person. It is the churches way of saying "Hate the sin, not the sinner." A lot of queer people that I know who have left the church actually really hate it being called same sex attraction. The "Law of Chastity" is a huge part of the church it is pretty much you need to stay a virgin until you are married. This includes just sexual thoughts in general. In my area at least it is view as shameful to have any sexual attraction until you are ready to be married. This thought process is changing but still is something that can come up from time to time. When it comes to being queer what I was told was that if I even kissed or just held hands with woman in a romantic manner that would be viewed as me breaking the law of chastity. Breaking the law of chastity automatically means that you cannot go to the temple. Which you are vastly shamed for even your family can be shamed for it. For example, most of the people in my ward (congregation) don't know that I am queer and that I don't agree with the church, however they do know that I haven't received my endowments (whole like making a promise to God thing, I don't know much about it cause you're not allowed to know what the hell it is until you've received them) and people will ask my parents about why I don't have them, and essentially shame my parents for that fact that I haven't gone through. Often times what I have been told in the church is that it is okay that I'm queer as long as I don't act on it. There are two paths that I was told that were the viable options in the church. One path is that I don't even acknowledge that I'm queer and essentially be miserable in the church. Or the other path is marrying a person of the "proper sex" and that even if I'm not happy at least I have done as the lord commands. There are also books and resources that explains these two methods and they are given to queer people as resources for their "struggle with same sex attraction." I met a couple where the husband was gay, in 2021 and it was really sad. It was clear that the wife was putting herself into a position that she didn't like. She said something along the lines of that she just wasn't enough for her husband and that she just had to be okay with that. The husband said that he kept close male friendship to curb his romantic desires and insisted that this was the only way to deal with being queer. (I didn't really like him he essentially told me that I was an abomination for not liking how the church handle things) Part of Mormonism is being heavily involved in your ward (congregation) there are many people who I feel essential raised me that I know would shun me if/when they find out that I am queer and that is something that is really hard to handle. When you realize that you are queer you have to come to terms with the fact that you are the thing that you've been told is not something proper and that you don't deserve the right to marry someone you love, and on top of that, that a large majority of people that have had big influences on your life will mostly likely never talk to you in the same manner of warmth and familiarity ever again. Also, that you are going to get a lot of comments about "The Family: A Proclamation to the World"
I greatly value your insight, its no ramble to us. Youd be the best person to ask then, did we handle this sensitively or is it even kind if offensive to use their terms SSA? We struggled because of self identifying and all that.
I appreciate this post. Thank you for explaining what it’s like from the inside. I’m not terribly religious but I grew up between Baptist and nondenominational (more Pentecostal) churches. I’m bi and if I felt the church I attended wasn’t welcoming I just left and never went back. I had no stake, family, or community to worry about. It was quite interesting to hear your perspective. Thanks.
@@membriash I feel that you handled this excellently! I don't find it offensive; it is what a lot of queer people who are in the church prefer and I view using their terms as respectful of what they want, it's just frustrating when they don't return that same curtsey. This is why a lot of people who left the church don't like the term and typical just roll their eye at it.
If you think this show is bad, there is a show called Adult Adopting Adults that had the most horrible husband I have ever witnessed on a reality show. I believe it was on A&E. This man was so horrible that I can’t find it on the network anywhere. Anywho, wonderful and insightful review as always!! I always enjoy watching you two discuss these shows!🤗
I think it’s really important to emphasize. It is very easy for us to say the men should be honest right away but we are not in a position in a very religious arguably cult like community. Being gay can lead to being disowned and shunned by everyone in that community - including family. It’s sad.
After this election it's going to be harder for the lgbtqia+ community. We were making strides but feel like we are going to take major steps back. My daughter came out a few years ago. I'm so proud of her and love her no matter what. So scared for her future. If she ever wants to have children it's going to be much harder if they start enacting Project 2025. Scary times. Sad times.
I just want to say I think you're both wonderfully you. So sorry you've gotten hateful comments directed to you. Just know there are people here that will go to bat for you. #ProtectMembriashAtAllCosts
Oh, youre too sweet! I do want to clarify we havent had a lot of truly hateful stuff. In fact if someone comes at me really extremely its hard for me to take any of it in. I think at the end of LIB seasons viewers tend to get very polarized in their perspectives in some sort of all or nothing view on cast members and get frustrated when we dont share those views. Then we inevitably get a higher volume of people meaningfully misunderstanding or misrepresenting how we showed up or what we said. I think we’re both pretty sensitive to being misunderstood or misrepresented because we’ve both experienced pretty severe gaslighting and abuse in the past. Its kinda triggering and emotionally exhausting. I really do appreciate your support, even one comment like this softens my heart and relaxes my mind
We were kinda nervous about it tbh. It’s hard touching tough subjects when you want to do right by it. Im glad the overarching reception is we handled it well, thank you
* Hugs* to you both firstly re election results. Haven't commented since it occurred. ( even tho not in the USA I am sure we will feel the brunt of things too being such a close neighbor)
Hey neighbor! Its good to hear from you again :). Yeah, I think the ramifications will be felt the world over. We joke about "fleeing to Canada" as if that's a choice, but in reality there is no escaping the US empire. Not the way things are now.
@@membriash Howdy neighbor👋... It was a disappointing result for sure, a real head shaker, yikes. Didn't see it happening. Canada would love to have you both and the doggies.💗
Gosh, I'm sis and straight but this was so creepy to me... Like something straight out of 1984, calmly normalizing a life of repression and cognitive dissonance to appease the community... How about the community just respects consenting adults and everyone mind their own business?
Wows on this TLC show, I don't think I ever watched TLC shows before.. I feel sad for the men in the tv program you are showing us... I get the feeling of people being held hostage vibe with real pain behind their eyes... just going along to get along really. Not allowed to be authentic at all in their own lives. That type of existence will eventually be the cause of a lot of ending of lives in an attempt to be finally free. 💔 There is a quote from Obama I like that fits here... " When all Americans( will add people around the world as well bc it's universal) are treated as equal, no matter who they are and whom they love, we are all more free."
I always had problems with Obama's use of the imperial war machine in particular but goddamn if he wasn't an eloquent guy, and the strides we made socially during his tenure. It's good to remember in times like this.
@@membriash Most politicians are not great tbh, I am not a fan of Trudeau here. But you are so right Obama was such a great speaker and held a lot more compassion than a lot of his predecessors and now the current. I like when you both do different topics like this one, I would love to see more recaps like this one. It helps open up a nice dialogue, well done.🤗
That's very kind of you to say. I do have a two word answer: The Internet Lol, but in all seriousness, our "hate" is minimal compared to a lot of people and channels. I do think we need to thicken our skin. At the same time, its always hard at the end of a LIB season and rude comments are never fun. The emotional rollercoaster of posting episode 1 through the reunion is WILD
Oof, this is a jump but with what they're doing now, sounds like the church saw that episode and "treated" them then went on to use them in their new roles as examples that it works for others in their community experiencing same sex attraction. Sad if that's what happened
Sometimes im like, it’s wild that ppl feel the need to tell me what they like in the bedroom… that goes for both gay and straight ppl 🤣 like why are we identifying our whole selves based on sex. I don’t wanna know if yall gay or straight. Respectfully. 😣
Omg I thought you guys were doing a “not” coming out video and I got confused. Now I realize there is a show called “my husband’s not gay”. Ladies, all your husbands are bi-“curious”. At least.
Youre asking the wrong heathens, lol, maybe someone in the comments can fill us in. But he did say love everyone and was chill af. Im inclined to believe he would have been 100% down with supporting gay people
Mitch speaking, Ive been told that Im gay, or had my sexuality questioned by a lot of gay and straight men. At one point when I was in college one of my buddies told me quite a few people talked about how they thought I was gay because of my mannerisms, I dressed well, and I left the school every weekend to visit a girlfriend (Ashley) no one ever saw. I wasnt offended per se but it made me question things and made me less comfortable with myself. If people keep questioning my sexuality, am I gay? Ive always had gay friends and been comfortable around gay men, at least more comfortable than straight men. It took me quite a few years to be fully comfortable in the way I navigated the world as myself and to tune out other peoples expectations of the way I show up and the way I feel in my sexuality. This itself may have been rooted in internalized homophobia and fear of being further ostracized when I felt isolated and that I didnt belong in any group. We grew up in a very conservative town, but I didnt let the confusion or questioning impact who I spent time around or the respect I showed to people. I now consider myself demisexual, and Ashley is pan. We’re not “trying” to be affirming. We talk a lot in this episode about people repressing their feelings and how uncomfortable that makes us, especially when they push that onto others. I dont know what right it is for us to call these men gay if they dont want to be labeled that, especially when it ties into their relationships with their church and families. If gay men have strong feelings about this Id love to hear their thoughts, but thats not our community. Ashley feels more comfortable talking about the man and his sexuality fluidity because its something she experiences. I think TLC presented this carelessly, that the mormon church engages in homophobia, and that at least some of the people on the show are definitely homophobic, but I dont know if I have any right to label these men gay. Thats the only reason we use the terms they do. I do hope that they all find peace in themselves, especially the ones that seemed to be in marriages revolving more heavily on repression of their desires.
@ I just wanna validate that this was so thoughtful and vulnerable of a response and I don’t wanna disregard your perspective whatsoever. It’s valid and I’ve had variety of suspicions thrown my way and I’ve now realized I’m also on the ace spectrum. That said- I am not saying they have internalized homophobia but I think the premise in of itself is a homophobic one, you name the era it came out, this was a time when homosexuality in of itself was deviant, this was woman’s worst nightmare and the show seems to play into those fears of having these at the very least inconvenient and at worst sinful or bad desires for men. I’m not a gay man so I’ll let one speak to this but to liken it to a show in the 2000s that made fun of how “ghetto” a black person was or what not to wear that kinda made fun of “frumpy” women who were often overweight I don’t really love highlighting 00s reality without criticizing the premise itself.
@ @ I just wanna validate that this was so thoughtful and vulnerable of a response and I don’t wanna disregard your perspective whatsoever. It’s valid and I’ve had variety of suspicions thrown my way and I’ve now realized I’m also on the ace spectrum. That said- I am not saying they have internalized homophobia but I think the premise in of itself is a homophobic one, you name the era it came out, this was a time when homosexuality in of itself was deviant, this was woman’s worst nightmare and the show seems to play into those fears of having these at the very least inconvenient and at worst sinful or bad desires for men. I’m not a gay man so I’ll let one speak to this but to liken it to a show in the 2000s that made fun of how “ghetto” a black person was or what not to wear that kinda made fun of “frumpy” women who were often overweight I don’t really love highlighting 00s reality without criticizing the premise itself.
@@ZeekSeeks oh yeah, the show is definitely homophobic. I think I got a little tipped off you saying we were being too affirming and felt the need to overshare, lol. Its not your fault, we’ve had a high number of critical comments lately and I am both thin skinned and tired. I truly appreciate you sharing. Edit: Also Ashley had seen this covered in a mocking way by other people (straight white men) and thought the show would feel different. By the end we were just kinda sad about the show
@@membriash sorry. Bad choice of words. I was worried that in the name of empathy you may have been to compassionate to people being taken advantage of on the show and also ppl who are victim to really harmful teachings. This premise feels like the basis of conversion camps etc etc they use the same verbiage too. No worries about your response, I loved it!!
I was raised Mormon and am Queer. Here are somethings that I think are important to note from my experiences. (sorry if I ramble)
The insistence of calling it same sex attraction is trying to separate a person's sexually attraction from who they are as person. It is the churches way of saying "Hate the sin, not the sinner." A lot of queer people that I know who have left the church actually really hate it being called same sex attraction.
The "Law of Chastity" is a huge part of the church it is pretty much you need to stay a virgin until you are married. This includes just sexual thoughts in general. In my area at least it is view as shameful to have any sexual attraction until you are ready to be married. This thought process is changing but still is something that can come up from time to time. When it comes to being queer what I was told was that if I even kissed or just held hands with woman in a romantic manner that would be viewed as me breaking the law of chastity. Breaking the law of chastity automatically means that you cannot go to the temple. Which you are vastly shamed for even your family can be shamed for it. For example, most of the people in my ward (congregation) don't know that I am queer and that I don't agree with the church, however they do know that I haven't received my endowments (whole like making a promise to God thing, I don't know much about it cause you're not allowed to know what the hell it is until you've received them) and people will ask my parents about why I don't have them, and essentially shame my parents for that fact that I haven't gone through.
Often times what I have been told in the church is that it is okay that I'm queer as long as I don't act on it. There are two paths that I was told that were the viable options in the church. One path is that I don't even acknowledge that I'm queer and essentially be miserable in the church. Or the other path is marrying a person of the "proper sex" and that even if I'm not happy at least I have done as the lord commands. There are also books and resources that explains these two methods and they are given to queer people as resources for their "struggle with same sex attraction."
I met a couple where the husband was gay, in 2021 and it was really sad. It was clear that the wife was putting herself into a position that she didn't like. She said something along the lines of that she just wasn't enough for her husband and that she just had to be okay with that. The husband said that he kept close male friendship to curb his romantic desires and insisted that this was the only way to deal with being queer. (I didn't really like him he essentially told me that I was an abomination for not liking how the church handle things)
Part of Mormonism is being heavily involved in your ward (congregation) there are many people who I feel essential raised me that I know would shun me if/when they find out that I am queer and that is something that is really hard to handle. When you realize that you are queer you have to come to terms with the fact that you are the thing that you've been told is not something proper and that you don't deserve the right to marry someone you love, and on top of that, that a large majority of people that have had big influences on your life will mostly likely never talk to you in the same manner of warmth and familiarity ever again.
Also, that you are going to get a lot of comments about "The Family: A Proclamation to the World"
I greatly value your insight, its no ramble to us. Youd be the best person to ask then, did we handle this sensitively or is it even kind if offensive to use their terms SSA? We struggled because of self identifying and all that.
I appreciate this post. Thank you for explaining what it’s like from the inside. I’m not terribly religious but I grew up between Baptist and nondenominational (more Pentecostal) churches. I’m bi and if I felt the church I attended wasn’t welcoming I just left and never went back. I had no stake, family, or community to worry about. It was quite interesting to hear your perspective. Thanks.
@@membriash I feel that you handled this excellently! I don't find it offensive; it is what a lot of queer people who are in the church prefer and I view using their terms as respectful of what they want, it's just frustrating when they don't return that same curtsey. This is why a lot of people who left the church don't like the term and typical just roll their eye at it.
If you think this show is bad, there is a show called Adult Adopting Adults that had the most horrible husband I have ever witnessed on a reality show. I believe it was on A&E. This man was so horrible that I can’t find it on the network anywhere.
Anywho, wonderful and insightful review as always!! I always enjoy watching you two discuss these shows!🤗
I think it’s really important to emphasize. It is very easy for us to say the men should be honest right away but we are not in a position in a very religious arguably cult like community. Being gay can lead to being disowned and shunned by everyone in that community - including family. It’s sad.
After this election it's going to be harder for the lgbtqia+ community. We were making strides but feel like we are going to take major steps back. My daughter came out a few years ago. I'm so proud of her and love her no matter what. So scared for her future. If she ever wants to have children it's going to be much harder if they start enacting Project 2025. Scary times. Sad times.
I’ve never been this early lol but I’ve gone down the anti-Mormon RUclips hole and omg so many layers.
I wonder if any of the men considered entering a lavender marriage or if there is any lavender marriages 🤔
I’m fairly sure there are a lot of Mormon lavender marriages.
lol I talk myself out of leaving the house for the sake of my dog too lol 😂❤
All those poor guys are hopefully “playing poker” together. My Ghod!
Utah has a lot of amazing places to go camping too
@ oh gooooooood! Let those dudes live! And the ladies too!! My goodness!
I literally just watched two videos recapping this show today and couldn't believe you posted a video about it as well.
I just want to say I think you're both wonderfully you. So sorry you've gotten hateful comments directed to you. Just know there are people here that will go to bat for you. #ProtectMembriashAtAllCosts
Oh, youre too sweet! I do want to clarify we havent had a lot of truly hateful stuff. In fact if someone comes at me really extremely its hard for me to take any of it in. I think at the end of LIB seasons viewers tend to get very polarized in their perspectives in some sort of all or nothing view on cast members and get frustrated when we dont share those views. Then we inevitably get a higher volume of people meaningfully misunderstanding or misrepresenting how we showed up or what we said. I think we’re both pretty sensitive to being misunderstood or misrepresented because we’ve both experienced pretty severe gaslighting and abuse in the past. Its kinda triggering and emotionally exhausting. I really do appreciate your support, even one comment like this softens my heart and relaxes my mind
As an openly gay supporter this made me like yal even more , you handled this review with care whilst also being entertaining 🫶🏾
We were kinda nervous about it tbh. It’s hard touching tough subjects when you want to do right by it. Im glad the overarching reception is we handled it well, thank you
* Hugs* to you both firstly re election results. Haven't commented since it occurred. ( even tho not in the USA I am sure we will feel the brunt of things too being such a close neighbor)
Hey neighbor! Its good to hear from you again :). Yeah, I think the ramifications will be felt the world over. We joke about "fleeing to Canada" as if that's a choice, but in reality there is no escaping the US empire. Not the way things are now.
@@membriash Howdy neighbor👋... It was a disappointing result for sure, a real head shaker, yikes. Didn't see it happening. Canada would love to have you both and the doggies.💗
Gosh, I'm sis and straight but this was so creepy to me... Like something straight out of 1984, calmly normalizing a life of repression and cognitive dissonance to appease the community...
How about the community just respects consenting adults and everyone mind their own business?
Wows on this TLC show, I don't think I ever watched TLC shows before.. I feel sad for the men in the tv program you are showing us... I get the feeling of people being held hostage vibe with real pain behind their eyes... just going along to get along really.
Not allowed to be authentic at all in their own lives. That type of existence will eventually be the cause of a lot of ending of lives in an attempt to be finally free. 💔
There is a quote from Obama I like that fits here... " When all Americans( will add people around the world as well bc it's universal) are treated as equal, no matter who they are and whom they love, we are all more free."
I always had problems with Obama's use of the imperial war machine in particular but goddamn if he wasn't an eloquent guy, and the strides we made socially during his tenure. It's good to remember in times like this.
@@membriash Most politicians are not great tbh, I am not a fan of Trudeau here. But you are so right Obama was such a great speaker and held a lot more compassion than a lot of his predecessors and now the current.
I like when you both do different topics like this one, I would love to see more recaps like this one. It helps open up a nice dialogue, well done.🤗
I don’t understand how you guys are getting hateful comments. You guys are so nice and careful how you guys talk about people.
That's very kind of you to say. I do have a two word answer:
The Internet
Lol, but in all seriousness, our "hate" is minimal compared to a lot of people and channels. I do think we need to thicken our skin. At the same time, its always hard at the end of a LIB season and rude comments are never fun. The emotional rollercoaster of posting episode 1 through the reunion is WILD
Oof, this is a jump but with what they're doing now, sounds like the church saw that episode and "treated" them then went on to use them in their new roles as examples that it works for others in their community experiencing same sex attraction. Sad if that's what happened
Sometimes im like, it’s wild that ppl feel the need to tell me what they like in the bedroom… that goes for both gay and straight ppl 🤣 like why are we identifying our whole selves based on sex. I don’t wanna know if yall gay or straight. Respectfully. 😣
Omg I thought you guys were doing a “not” coming out video and I got confused. Now I realize there is a show called “my husband’s not gay”. Ladies, all your husbands are bi-“curious”. At least.
🏳⚧🏳🌈🏳🌈♀♂⚧💜
Wasn’t Jesus kinda…. Gay?
Youre asking the wrong heathens, lol, maybe someone in the comments can fill us in. But he did say love everyone and was chill af. Im inclined to believe he would have been 100% down with supporting gay people
I’m so confused. Are you guys trying too hard to be affirming here? It’s clear this is an extremely homophobic premise.
Mitch speaking, Ive been told that Im gay, or had my sexuality questioned by a lot of gay and straight men. At one point when I was in college one of my buddies told me quite a few people talked about how they thought I was gay because of my mannerisms, I dressed well, and I left the school every weekend to visit a girlfriend (Ashley) no one ever saw. I wasnt offended per se but it made me question things and made me less comfortable with myself. If people keep questioning my sexuality, am I gay? Ive always had gay friends and been comfortable around gay men, at least more comfortable than straight men. It took me quite a few years to be fully comfortable in the way I navigated the world as myself and to tune out other peoples expectations of the way I show up and the way I feel in my sexuality. This itself may have been rooted in internalized homophobia and fear of being further ostracized when I felt isolated and that I didnt belong in any group. We grew up in a very conservative town, but I didnt let the confusion or questioning impact who I spent time around or the respect I showed to people. I now consider myself demisexual, and Ashley is pan. We’re not “trying” to be affirming. We talk a lot in this episode about people repressing their feelings and how uncomfortable that makes us, especially when they push that onto others. I dont know what right it is for us to call these men gay if they dont want to be labeled that, especially when it ties into their relationships with their church and families. If gay men have strong feelings about this Id love to hear their thoughts, but thats not our community. Ashley feels more comfortable talking about the man and his sexuality fluidity because its something she experiences. I think TLC presented this carelessly, that the mormon church engages in homophobia, and that at least some of the people on the show are definitely homophobic, but I dont know if I have any right to label these men gay. Thats the only reason we use the terms they do. I do hope that they all find peace in themselves, especially the ones that seemed to be in marriages revolving more heavily on repression of their desires.
@ I just wanna validate that this was so thoughtful and vulnerable of a response and I don’t wanna disregard your perspective whatsoever. It’s valid and I’ve had variety of suspicions thrown my way and I’ve now realized I’m also on the ace spectrum. That said- I am not saying they have internalized homophobia but I think the premise in of itself is a homophobic one, you name the era it came out, this was a time when homosexuality in of itself was deviant, this was woman’s worst nightmare and the show seems to play into those fears of having these at the very least inconvenient and at worst sinful or bad desires for men. I’m not a gay man so I’ll let one speak to this but to liken it to a show in the 2000s that made fun of how “ghetto” a black person was or what not to wear that kinda made fun of “frumpy” women who were often overweight I don’t really love highlighting 00s reality without criticizing the premise itself.
@ @ I just wanna validate that this was so thoughtful and vulnerable of a response and I don’t wanna disregard your perspective whatsoever. It’s valid and I’ve had variety of suspicions thrown my way and I’ve now realized I’m also on the ace spectrum. That said- I am not saying they have internalized homophobia but I think the premise in of itself is a homophobic one, you name the era it came out, this was a time when homosexuality in of itself was deviant, this was woman’s worst nightmare and the show seems to play into those fears of having these at the very least inconvenient and at worst sinful or bad desires for men. I’m not a gay man so I’ll let one speak to this but to liken it to a show in the 2000s that made fun of how “ghetto” a black person was or what not to wear that kinda made fun of “frumpy” women who were often overweight I don’t really love highlighting 00s reality without criticizing the premise itself.
@@ZeekSeeks oh yeah, the show is definitely homophobic. I think I got a little tipped off you saying we were being too affirming and felt the need to overshare, lol. Its not your fault, we’ve had a high number of critical comments lately and I am both thin skinned and tired. I truly appreciate you sharing.
Edit: Also Ashley had seen this covered in a mocking way by other people (straight white men) and thought the show would feel different. By the end we were just kinda sad about the show
@@membriash sorry. Bad choice of words. I was worried that in the name of empathy you may have been to compassionate to people being taken advantage of on the show and also ppl who are victim to really harmful teachings. This premise feels like the basis of conversion camps etc etc they use the same verbiage too. No worries about your response, I loved it!!