I think the welds with the most displacement out the sides had the best properties because the displaced material carried all of the Oxides, exposing fresh metal in an airtight chamber for the weld.
@@ov3rcl0cked Not for welding, no. At least not to remove the oxide layer. When it comes to welding, if you are using a process that even uses flux (FCAW or SMAW are the two primary processes that use flux) the primary purpose of the flux is to decompose into a gas that can shield the molten weld metal from oxidation. It doesn't actually help to remove any existing oxidation, that's why you need to use a wire brush. That's also why when welding metals like Titanium, it is better to use a gas shielded process like GTAW than it is to use a flux shielded process like SMAW, because not only is there much less of a risk of weld metal contamination, but the shielding gas can linger for much longer on a weldment, providing shielding to the metal as it's cooling down as well as when it's actually molten.
@@ov3rcl0cked In forge welding borax flux serves the purpose of preventing further oxidation, not breaking down existing oxidation. Source: Me, an AWS certified welder
@@richardmillhousenixon I have seen people use, and have myself used various fluxes that can stick to, collect or lower the melting point of slag/oxides so it is easier to remove and can often get them out of the way for the metal to stick together properly. I don't know the names of, or the chemicals used for, the fluxes. would have to go look to see if I still have any of it.
To reliably friction weld on a lathe it works best when you can let the fixed rod spin freely after you establish the weld while the lathe is still spinning. By having the weld only be able to set after the lathe has stopped it will be extremely difficult to get a strong weld on a consistent basis, you are basically soldering the joint instead of truly forge welding it. You are simply heating each end up to a plastic state and pressing them together which doesn't get the metals to intermix & become welded.
It would actually work on every piece of metal if you could get it to specific temperature and could instantly stop the spinning part. And those edges which you left there are creating stress concentractions so crack begins there and just split it at weld you should turn it in lathe to make the hammer test more relevant. BTW great video
I think it might be easier to; instead of trying to instantly stop the part, you let the fixed part start to spin. That would instantly stop the friction. Then you could stop the whole part.
@@SteveEh You'd still have the same problem of a brief period where the surfaces are still out of synch. Commercial friction welding like this stops the spinning part as opposed to letting the stationary part spin, but they use a brake to stop the chuck sooner, and some machines will support the spinning part without the chuck and simply disengage the chuck to stop rotation, all depending on how heavy the parts they're working with are.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper it really doesnt matter. As long as they are not in sink they keep heating up. Actually, adding high pressure when its at temperature would be more beneficial
This is the first video I've seen on this channel. The quality of the content, plus the production quality, plus the charismatic personality made me instantly subscribe.
titanium has a 2x weight to strength ratio compared to steel. the other materials are aerospace grade materials commonly used on parts that need to resist deforming due to extreme temperatures.
Titanium is really well suited for friction welding because it is particularly bad at transferring heat. This makes it difficultish to machine, but it makes it very easy to dump heat into a weld via friction, because the heat moves away from the joint very slowly.
Hmmm, material choice is a big engineering topic. You'll even find great differences between the behavior of different alloy based on the same metal. When choosing a material, you got to consider a lot of factor : cost, strength, hardness, elasticity, resistance to chemical attack, how it's property might change with temperature, how easy it is to process (machine, weld and so forth), magnetic properties and those are just the big ones. But here are the classic choices and their justification : - Mild steel - I want it cheap and I don't care if it's heavy - Fancy steel - I want it tough and I don't care if it's heavy - Stainless steel - I don't want to paint it to resist corrosion, I'll pay good money for that - Aluminum - I want it light, cheap and corrosion resistant - Fancy aluminum - I want it light and not too weak, I'm ok with the price - Titanium - TAKE MY MONEY, I want it light, tough, corrosion resistant and a pain in the butt to work with - Cast Iron - I don't care that it's weak, I want it to dampen vibration and not rust. - Brass - Gimme the fancy one that includes grease between sintered grain for abrasion resistance.
The SR-71 was made mostly of Titanium so it could handle skin temperatures up to about 600F at Mach 3.3. The X-15 rocket plane was made of Inconel to handle skin temperatures of 1100-1200F at Mach 6+.
I do not subscribe to many channels, this is one worth subscribing to. The trial and error that you put yourself through is even teaching me, thank you for uploading. I would buy one of those beautiful axes if life wasn't so difficult right now.
I have an idea about friction welds that you could try. Form a sleave into one piece of your stock to provide more surface contact and give it a try. You could then machine away the sleeve if you want.
Very cool video. Always cool to watch this stuff, I'm a mechanical engineer, took materials science a while back and I did a research paper on friction welding. What I think most affects fusion in friction welding is how readily the material transfers and merges together, which is affected by hardness, surface roughness, and conduction across the heat affected zone. Soft very smooth materials that readily exchange electrons can actually cold fuse together if theyre similar surfaces enough. Anti friction and anti galling materials are designed usually through surface treatments to resist the transfer of materials and recrystallization of the material structure. Deal with this quite a bit in the food and beverage industry, cause we want to use stainless everywhere but you can really use a stainless shaft in a stainless steel hollow shaft geardrive unless it's precipitation hardened and expect to get the drive off cause they will gall together.
At the last stage in Friction Welding when you stop the lathe, the non moving part should also move with the rotary shaft and then come to a halt so that there is no weld abrassion
Agreed, say a brake on the stationary chuck that would allow you to "release" the chuck when you power down the lathe. Allowing them to spin together, and not sheering the weld. Or, make a snap brake for the moving chuck head, vis a vie: an oversized chainsaw safety brake.
@@paulsanti8517 you could do a positive cone and a negative cone on the other part. Same surface area, but auto centering, would actually be a stronger weld if it worked properly....🤔
You can depending on the surface area. His leather had a hard time with the larger diameter. So doing a overhead purge and a cone setup should have made a better result.
@@the_sharp_carpenter Same surface area, yes, but not same thermal properties. To use the probe and drogue analogy, the probe would be much more susceptible to friction heating than the drogue, because there is more material behind the drogue to actually allow thermal transfer to the rest of the part. It's for the same reason that Aerospike engines are currently nigh unattainable, because a spike has significantly worse thermal properties than an inverted spike of equal surface area.
Tim, I really enjoy your videos. It's great seeing someone who loves their craft and is willing to try new things... A couple of things... It looks like on the steel, you are getting "fast" fractures (the chalky area). You probably have a crack, that is enough of a stress riser to propagate when you strike it (look for a flat area next to the chalky area). In cases like that, you could actually improve the strength by clearing out the mushroomed area and getting down to a crack-free area. Of course, as a blacksmith you are probably quite familiar with that. For titanium, it is notorious for galling. Basically titanium forms an oxide layer skin that is super tough and super thin. When it is exposed to friction with titanium, that thin layer sheds and locks in with the layer on the other side. With the lathe you are shedding so much, that you are putting a lot of energy (heat) in. This is why titanium is almost never used in bearing applications, and if it is, it is only with a non-titanium material on the other side.
from my observations, usually frictionwelding is completed by letting the tailstock piece spin along with the piece in the lathe chuck, i imagine that proper fusion is not made because of the time where the lathe stops spinning and by the time it stops, the material is too cold to fully fuse. maybe you would need a lockable bearing that you can unlock to allow it spinning after you completed the frictionwelding process?
Years ago I visited a factory that employed friction welding to join axle halves. Their setup used a spinning end and allowed for adjustment of the stationary end, so when the weld was done and the resistance increased, that end bagan to spin too. The welds were great and done in about 2 minutes.
Two things to get your friction weld better. 1, squeeze the material more so you push the slag out along with any other impurities. 2, stop the rotation as fast as you can. If you slow down gradually, you let it cool down a bit while it's still moving. Try a much smaller chuck on the lathe if you can get one so it doesn't have as much mass to keep it spinning for so long.
I'd love to see you try helping bigger stock heat with a propane or map gas torch, also try shielding with argon and carbon dioxide to give a better weld maybe? It could be worth it for exotic stuff so it doesn't oxidize
I work at a place that makes aircraft engines. They do this all the time with titanium. The parts always have a serious mushroom effect at the weld joint like your last try and are usually mushroomed to the point where they curled back on themselves enough to touch the shaft. It is critical to make sure the pieces are as parallel to each other as possible for even heating of the material for a really strong joint. Friction welding is used mostly to join dissimilar metals. We use it for nickel alloy and titanium. I'm not surprised you had better luck with the titanium. You can also try hollowing out the material and make basically a really heavy wall tube. That will stop the issue you saw in the middle of the weld not holding up. The center didn't get hot enough seeing as the SFM of the middle drops to almost 0 so there is no real friction to help heat the metal to weld temp.
The problem seems to come when stopping the lathe. It seems like if you could figure out a way to lock the drill chuck then allow it to spin freely when you reach welding heat that would work well. It's almost like the lathe chuck is twisting the weld while stopping (when the weld is cooling). Maybe some sort of clutch mechanism on the drill chuck side?
I think that what you are finding is that no matter how "red hot" it gets, if the metal at the mating faces aren't "moved enough" - the interface doesn't mix properly, and the weld is not complete - commercial friction welded parts often display quite a lot of lipping at the limits of the part (before machining) indicating that the metal which was initially at the face has all been forced to migrate out of the contact zone. - Gotta keep the Pressure on - including while it is stopping. Great Experiment. - Did you try using some flux on any mating parts to see if it helps with limiting scale / reducing existing scale?? - For a great mechanical fit - using friction to insert an oversized "tenon" in to a "mortise" - undersized hole, including fusing the shoulder material, something to play with I suppose. - that way there will be reduced locating/alignment force/accuracy needed
Most of the commercial friction welding rigs basically stop on a dime once they hit temperature.. Your lathe stops pretty quick, but even the few turns that it takes to decelerate will start to shear the weld just as it's setting..
What if you machined a tapered recess into one of the two pieces, and then pushed the other into it, and as it heats up it would spread into the recess like a wedge. Could you use this method to join two incompatible materials together, say steel and titanium? Could be cool?
I noticed that the two welds that were sound had large "mushrooms" of displaced material. I assume this displaced the oxides that formed as the pieces heated up, so you got a clean joint on those welds. It would be interesting to see if you can get the other materials to weld if you tweak the process. It's really cool to see that an advanced process like this can be performed with basic equipment that's within reach for a hobbyist.
Couple items for you to do. 1: purge gas is needed for most welds done like this, was surprised to not see the Titanium not go up in flames. 2: cut 60 degree cones on the pieces one male one female, helps center and increases surface area. 3: to avoid spin-down issues, release the piece being held in the fixed side and let it spin with the driven side.
On some of these pieces when you jammed it together right as it stops spinning you can see that you were actually taking up slack between the Chuck and the piece. I think this was preventing the parts from being pushed together hard enough to get proper fusion. The first sample got jammed together really well and you can see how the material oozed out from the joint. Some of those other ones didn't get that opportunity. I'd like to see those try it again but with the material jammed against the face of the Chuck so that it can't slip as you're trying to push them together at the end.
When you took out the first two pieces and hit them 4 times, I immediately starting singing the Hendrix song Dolly Dagger, HAHAHAHA! Perfect. I think it's cool that you got it working. I have a mini lathe and it's tough to get it working.
The first is exactly how a friction weld should look like! It has to bulge a little like this. If you see this (and the combo is weldable at all) it's almost certainly a good connection. If a material is weldable by any means it usually can be welded by friction welding... if your lathe is strong and rigid enough. Turbine rotors from super alloys similar to your inconel stock are welded like this, but on HUGE machines using drive motors in the Megawatt range or tons of flywheels and hydraulic pressure.
One function that will affect the strength of the weld in any material is the "metallurgical structure". The welded area will potentially have a completely different structure due to the heat and cooling rate than the rest of the material. Sometimes the welded area will have a higher strength, sometimes a lower strength. In commercial friction welding, the pressure and temperature will be accurately controlled. Both pieces of material will be held rigidly / securely to prevent and sideways movement.
The application of welding these different metals together would and could be awesome for different applications. Where heat resistance in one area might be preferable, where abrasive resistance would be needed else where on the same shift or body!
Try cutting the stock into cone segments. The small face will heat up and conduct the heat backwards pretty well. It'll also minimize oxide buildup if you maintain pressure from the tailstock. Also maintain it after you stop the spindle. I think those in combo will help a bunch.
Wowers that's definitely very unique and BadAss alert and mostly definitely crazy. Always very cool to see your videos. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work Tim. Can't wait to see more videos from you testing all kinds of different types of metals. Always interesting and learning. Forge On. Keep Making. God Bless.
I was thinking the same thing. He needs to surround the outside or the weld with a inert welding gas like Argon so it will stop the oxygen from getting to the weld. On any of the metals this would only make the weld stronger. The 2 different sizes could be done easy enough to by heating the larger size with a rose bud first.
one way to check the weld is using the lathe and cutting away the excess material. with the bare metal you can anodize it to see if there is any cold shuts on the weld.
Friction welding requires upset (pressing the pieces together to squeeze out metal from the inner faces) to join clean metal together within the weld. Trimming off the upset removes stress concentrations, And ideally you would want one of the pieces to be released after upsetting them so that it can spin freely with the drive (continuous drive friction welding is what you’re doing) and allow them to join.
I’ve got a small amount of experience with this. You had it right with the mild and titanium steel. You need enough heat to flow the metal. That’s what actually welds it, it becomes liquid and mixes. If you do not have “lips” form at the joint then it’s an incomplete weld. And stopping the lathe as quick as possible is a huge part of success. The mar-ageing and inconel will work if your turn them to a smaller diameter and let the metal flow to create “lips”, that’s what we call it.
Welding with friction uses the same concept as a regular welding. The bigger the piece the more heat is needed to weld the pieces together. you can weld the big piece of titanium but because friction is the main method of heating you will need to spin the pieces for longer in order to heat it up. In order to have successful welds via friction welding you need to always have that mushrooming in the middle of the two pieces this ensures that the molting metal is pushed into one another.
You need to ensure material is squeezed out as that will ensure no scale buildup within the joint and that the materials are mixed. Look into stir welding and how that process functions
The titanium REQUIRES 100% purge with Argon or similar gas shielding. From the moment it starts to colour, it is susceptible to atmospheric contamination. Shielding gas must be provided from before colour to final cool-down, or what you get is something that my hold together, but will never reach maximum strength. A test to see if you've got 100% weld would be to hang the piece from a piece of string, and tap it with a hammer. A good, solid weld will actually ring like a bell. The joint should be clean and shiny like chrome, or it's back to the drawing board.
Hello there! To get a better weld you have to drill a hole in the center of both parts. 1. Because than there is less surface to heat up 2. That bur that forms on the outside of the weld also is on the inside. So it needs some room to go Cheers and keep up the good work
It isn't on the inside aswell, unless you add a hole for that very reason - The heat makes the interior flow and extrude, if there where an internal "lump" of slag there would be a noticable neck swelling
4:10 With friction welding, you need the same diameter faces to be pretty much the same size in order to make the weld. This is because the entire end side of a piece has to connect to the entire end side of the other piece I order to create a solid weld. Having them at the same diameter allows the ends to perfectly rub together to creat the needed friction
Interested to see what that'd look like if you turned down that mushrooming. I'd imagine the grain structure would reveal a lot about the conditions during the weld. Also, if you do this enough, I'm sure that you'll find that creating some sort of taper to the pieces will help in heating up the opposing surface quicker by starting in a smaller area allowing for deeper penetration with less exterior deformation.
If you drill an exact hole in one end and then friction weld the pieces together, theorectly it would fuse even better while the tip can't expent in the hole and get stuck even more. Sorry for my English..
I’ve done this on a lathe. The problem is that the lathe takes too long to stop. If you watch friction welding they stop instantly. It would be good to make a clutch or some type of release on the drill chuck so it would instantly spin with the lathe chuck.
For the metals that didn't work well, i think if instead of machining the ends completely flat, you could try machining them in a bit of a cone shape, with a smaller flat surface, allowing it to heat up faster in a local area, then when its hot enough push it together so it mushrooms out until you reach the base of the cone shape and are back to the original diameter.
I think for the carbon steels and the ones that did not weld well, you should pre drill a hole in the one the is connected to the spinning side of the lathe and then bore down the end of the stationary piece to the diameter of the rotating one. Maybe there will be a stronger weld that can resist impact better.
I've been eyeing one of these axes for a while but could never pull the trigger. Tonight I guess was the night to make a spur of the moment purchase cause I just bought one. Love your content and look forward to enjoying the axe for years and years to come.
I'd recommend a slight relief cut in the middle of one part, and a matching boss on the other. In short, the two pieces mesh like a lego. Overall though, you did a great job on these, and I'd like to see more :)
The heat needs to be equal on both sides in order for the weld to take, and also the more mushroom you get when you squash them together, that also determines how good the weld is.
You can get a better friction weld by increasing tge surface area between the two parts. If you go from a flat plane to something more of a cone, you will see better results with titanium. You can also just make it peg and hole mate to each other, but thats hard to keep stable on the lathe.
I'd try blowing argon across it when welding as a shielding gas. Maybe borax or some other flux might help. I don't know. Cool results from a lathe though.
One thing you could do is make the mating surface of both pieces more domed out so that the center of both pieces heat up first and then push them together.
Where the surfaces meet you could try to find a way to stop the material that mushes up and away from the bond, like a thin titanium sleeve or pipe slightly bigger.
A small to large bar can be done, but needs to be a longer section of the small bar run into the larger piece to get enough heat, or go for a harder steel for the smaller bar and it should run hotter as you drive it in to the larger stock
I never thought watching somebody hitting something with a Hammer, and nothing happening, could be so satisfying.
So true 😍
It really is
By something not happening something did happen
Ummmm totally not like someone cooked a chicken with slaps
really confirms how much stronger friction welding can be considering how this was kind of worst case for friction welding.
I think the welds with the most displacement out the sides had the best properties because the displaced material carried all of the Oxides, exposing fresh metal in an airtight chamber for the weld.
I wonder if flux would help
@@ov3rcl0cked Not for welding, no. At least not to remove the oxide layer. When it comes to welding, if you are using a process that even uses flux (FCAW or SMAW are the two primary processes that use flux) the primary purpose of the flux is to decompose into a gas that can shield the molten weld metal from oxidation. It doesn't actually help to remove any existing oxidation, that's why you need to use a wire brush. That's also why when welding metals like Titanium, it is better to use a gas shielded process like GTAW than it is to use a flux shielded process like SMAW, because not only is there much less of a risk of weld metal contamination, but the shielding gas can linger for much longer on a weldment, providing shielding to the metal as it's cooling down as well as when it's actually molten.
@@richardmillhousenixon I just know borax flux is often used in forge welding, and this seems similar to that.
@@ov3rcl0cked In forge welding borax flux serves the purpose of preventing further oxidation, not breaking down existing oxidation. Source: Me, an AWS certified welder
@@richardmillhousenixon I have seen people use, and have myself used various fluxes that can stick to, collect or lower the melting point of slag/oxides so it is easier to remove and can often get them out of the way for the metal to stick together properly. I don't know the names of, or the chemicals used for, the fluxes. would have to go look to see if I still have any of it.
Ti is a poor thermal conductor, so all of the friction heat remains localized, which makes for a pretty decent friction welding all considered
You should put it back in the lathe and turn down the mushroomed out material to see if there is still a seam line or not
I was thinking the same thing lol
To reliably friction weld on a lathe it works best when you can let the fixed rod spin freely after you establish the weld while the lathe is still spinning. By having the weld only be able to set after the lathe has stopped it will be extremely difficult to get a strong weld on a consistent basis, you are basically soldering the joint instead of truly forge welding it. You are simply heating each end up to a plastic state and pressing them together which doesn't get the metals to intermix & become welded.
11:45 when u see ur crush the next day at school and she tells u she heard some giggling in her closet
It would actually work on every piece of metal if you could get it to specific temperature and could instantly stop the spinning part. And those edges which you left there are creating stress concentractions so crack begins there and just split it at weld you should turn it in lathe to make the hammer test more relevant. BTW great video
I think it might be easier to; instead of trying to instantly stop the part, you let the fixed part start to spin. That would instantly stop the friction. Then you could stop the whole part.
@@SteveEh You'd still have the same problem of a brief period where the surfaces are still out of synch. Commercial friction welding like this stops the spinning part as opposed to letting the stationary part spin, but they use a brake to stop the chuck sooner, and some machines will support the spinning part without the chuck and simply disengage the chuck to stop rotation, all depending on how heavy the parts they're working with are.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper it really doesnt matter. As long as they are not in sink they keep heating up. Actually, adding high pressure when its at temperature would be more beneficial
Get a clutch in there on the mill end.
Maybe machine down where the two join.. I'd like to see what it looks like clean
Yes, indeed. We might learn more about the weld by seeing the seam clean.
Yes and etch it too
This is the first video I've seen on this channel. The quality of the content, plus the production quality, plus the charismatic personality made me instantly subscribe.
Not a blacksmith, never tried blacksmithing and I'm fascinated with your videos. Keep up the good work!
Try it, it's really fun ;)
I'm in the same boat
I would love to see a video explaining the difference between these materials and why you would choose one over another.
titanium has a 2x weight to strength ratio compared to steel. the other materials are aerospace grade materials commonly used on parts that need to resist deforming due to extreme temperatures.
Titanium is really well suited for friction welding because it is particularly bad at transferring heat. This makes it difficultish to machine, but it makes it very easy to dump heat into a weld via friction, because the heat moves away from the joint very slowly.
Hmmm, material choice is a big engineering topic. You'll even find great differences between the behavior of different alloy based on the same metal. When choosing a material, you got to consider a lot of factor : cost, strength, hardness, elasticity, resistance to chemical attack, how it's property might change with temperature, how easy it is to process (machine, weld and so forth), magnetic properties and those are just the big ones.
But here are the classic choices and their justification :
- Mild steel - I want it cheap and I don't care if it's heavy
- Fancy steel - I want it tough and I don't care if it's heavy
- Stainless steel - I don't want to paint it to resist corrosion, I'll pay good money for that
- Aluminum - I want it light, cheap and corrosion resistant
- Fancy aluminum - I want it light and not too weak, I'm ok with the price
- Titanium - TAKE MY MONEY, I want it light, tough, corrosion resistant and a pain in the butt to work with
- Cast Iron - I don't care that it's weak, I want it to dampen vibration and not rust.
- Brass - Gimme the fancy one that includes grease between sintered grain for abrasion resistance.
@@pittlebelge this is so good. Thanks!
The SR-71 was made mostly of Titanium so it could handle skin temperatures up to about 600F at Mach 3.3.
The X-15 rocket plane was made of Inconel to handle skin temperatures of 1100-1200F at Mach 6+.
I do not subscribe to many channels, this is one worth subscribing to. The trial and error that you put yourself through is even teaching me, thank you for uploading. I would buy one of those beautiful axes if life wasn't so difficult right now.
This guy looks like the type of guy that's gonna be at his peak in his 40s, like Matthew McConaugey
Hitting 40s like alright… alright… alright…
I can’t tell if this is a compliment or a insult
@sam galava jeez what did I do
:( kinda mean
I have an idea about friction welds that you could try. Form a sleave into one piece of your stock to provide more surface contact and give it a try. You could then machine away the sleeve if you want.
Very cool video. Always cool to watch this stuff, I'm a mechanical engineer, took materials science a while back and I did a research paper on friction welding. What I think most affects fusion in friction welding is how readily the material transfers and merges together, which is affected by hardness, surface roughness, and conduction across the heat affected zone. Soft very smooth materials that readily exchange electrons can actually cold fuse together if theyre similar surfaces enough. Anti friction and anti galling materials are designed usually through surface treatments to resist the transfer of materials and recrystallization of the material structure. Deal with this quite a bit in the food and beverage industry, cause we want to use stainless everywhere but you can really use a stainless shaft in a stainless steel hollow shaft geardrive unless it's precipitation hardened and expect to get the drive off cause they will gall together.
At the last stage in Friction Welding when you stop the lathe, the non moving part should also move with the rotary shaft and then come to a halt so that there is no weld abrassion
Agreed, say a brake on the stationary chuck that would allow you to "release" the chuck when you power down the lathe. Allowing them to spin together, and not sheering the weld.
Or, make a snap brake for the moving chuck head, vis a vie: an oversized chainsaw safety brake.
What if you cut a 1/4 inch deep circle into the larger bar of metal, so that the smaller bar has an easier way to fuse?
Your need both parts to have the same surface area to you get equal heating on both parts.
@@paulsanti8517 you could do a positive cone and a negative cone on the other part. Same surface area, but auto centering, would actually be a stronger weld if it worked properly....🤔
You can depending on the surface area. His leather had a hard time with the larger diameter. So doing a overhead purge and a cone setup should have made a better result.
@@the_sharp_carpenter Same surface area, yes, but not same thermal properties. To use the probe and drogue analogy, the probe would be much more susceptible to friction heating than the drogue, because there is more material behind the drogue to actually allow thermal transfer to the rest of the part. It's for the same reason that Aerospike engines are currently nigh unattainable, because a spike has significantly worse thermal properties than an inverted spike of equal surface area.
@@paulsanti8517 Anything other than flat surfaces on flat surfaces would not work for the reasons I stated above
Tim, I really enjoy your videos. It's great seeing someone who loves their craft and is willing to try new things...
A couple of things... It looks like on the steel, you are getting "fast" fractures (the chalky area). You probably have a crack, that is enough of a stress riser to propagate when you strike it (look for a flat area next to the chalky area). In cases like that, you could actually improve the strength by clearing out the mushroomed area and getting down to a crack-free area. Of course, as a blacksmith you are probably quite familiar with that.
For titanium, it is notorious for galling. Basically titanium forms an oxide layer skin that is super tough and super thin. When it is exposed to friction with titanium, that thin layer sheds and locks in with the layer on the other side. With the lathe you are shedding so much, that you are putting a lot of energy (heat) in. This is why titanium is almost never used in bearing applications, and if it is, it is only with a non-titanium material on the other side.
create a ball and socket fitting on the metal and try friction weldind it will work
from my observations, usually frictionwelding is completed by letting the tailstock piece spin along with the piece in the lathe chuck, i imagine that proper fusion is not made because of the time where the lathe stops spinning and by the time it stops, the material is too cold to fully fuse. maybe you would need a lockable bearing that you can unlock to allow it spinning after you completed the frictionwelding process?
Exactly the same thought.
I kept yelling at the video wanting you to mill it down so we can see the Seam!! Oh well, fun stuff!
Years ago I visited a factory that employed friction welding to join axle halves. Their setup used a spinning end and allowed for adjustment of the stationary end, so when the weld was done and the resistance increased, that end bagan to spin too. The welds were great and done in about 2 minutes.
I loved watching your passion as much as hitting those samples. Excellent work!!!
Two things to get your friction weld better.
1, squeeze the material more so you push the slag out along with any other impurities.
2, stop the rotation as fast as you can. If you slow down gradually, you let it cool down a bit while it's still moving. Try a much smaller chuck on the lathe if you can get one so it doesn't have as much mass to keep it spinning for so long.
I enjoyed the ride of learning about the different metals working characteristics so very much awesome idea!
I'd love to see you try helping bigger stock heat with a propane or map gas torch, also try shielding with argon and carbon dioxide to give a better weld maybe? It could be worth it for exotic stuff so it doesn't oxidize
I work at a place that makes aircraft engines. They do this all the time with titanium. The parts always have a serious mushroom effect at the weld joint like your last try and are usually mushroomed to the point where they curled back on themselves enough to touch the shaft. It is critical to make sure the pieces are as parallel to each other as possible for even heating of the material for a really strong joint. Friction welding is used mostly to join dissimilar metals. We use it for nickel alloy and titanium. I'm not surprised you had better luck with the titanium. You can also try hollowing out the material and make basically a really heavy wall tube. That will stop the issue you saw in the middle of the weld not holding up. The center didn't get hot enough seeing as the SFM of the middle drops to almost 0 so there is no real friction to help heat the metal to weld temp.
Man I’m pretty bummed you didn’t clean that titanium weld up in the lathe real quick...
"Oh yes, yes, that thing is so hard": am I actually watching a blacksmithing video ? ô_0
Good job ;)
I laughed when you were going to try inconel. Thought to myself, yeah freakin right, not a chance. I yelled when it actually stuck. Awesome video.
The problem seems to come when stopping the lathe. It seems like if you could figure out a way to lock the drill chuck then allow it to spin freely when you reach welding heat that would work well. It's almost like the lathe chuck is twisting the weld while stopping (when the weld is cooling). Maybe some sort of clutch mechanism on the drill chuck side?
Would be neat to see this again while running argon during the fusion time and some post flow. Great vid.
Who else would mais something like that in RUclips, nicee job man, It was teally interesting
titanium has a relative low heat conductivity that’s why the heat retains and allows more localized melt, try copper for comparison.
I think that what you are finding is that no matter how "red hot" it gets, if the metal at the mating faces aren't "moved enough" - the interface doesn't mix properly, and the weld is not complete - commercial friction welded parts often display quite a lot of lipping at the limits of the part (before machining) indicating that the metal which was initially at the face has all been forced to migrate out of the contact zone. - Gotta keep the Pressure on - including while it is stopping.
Great Experiment.
- Did you try using some flux on any mating parts to see if it helps with limiting scale / reducing existing scale??
- For a great mechanical fit - using friction to insert an oversized "tenon" in to a "mortise" - undersized hole, including fusing the shoulder material, something to play with I suppose. - that way there will be reduced locating/alignment force/accuracy needed
How could you dislike this man.
Most of the commercial friction welding rigs basically stop on a dime once they hit temperature.. Your lathe stops pretty quick, but even the few turns that it takes to decelerate will start to shear the weld just as it's setting..
What if you machined a tapered recess into one of the two pieces, and then pushed the other into it, and as it heats up it would spread into the recess like a wedge. Could you use this method to join two incompatible materials together, say steel and titanium? Could be cool?
I noticed that the two welds that were sound had large "mushrooms" of displaced material. I assume this displaced the oxides that formed as the pieces heated up, so you got a clean joint on those welds. It would be interesting to see if you can get the other materials to weld if you tweak the process. It's really cool to see that an advanced process like this can be performed with basic equipment that's within reach for a hobbyist.
In my extremely uneducated opinion I think you're right :)
Congratulations for 100k 💯
Keep it up broo👍🤞
friction welding is cool take alot of rpms and pressure
11:05 That's what she said. -hahahahah Great vids bud, always awesome content!
Damn it came down here to see if anyone else said it yet 😂
Couple items for you to do. 1: purge gas is needed for most welds done like this, was surprised to not see the Titanium not go up in flames. 2: cut 60 degree cones on the pieces one male one female, helps center and increases surface area. 3: to avoid spin-down issues, release the piece being held in the fixed side and let it spin with the driven side.
On some of these pieces when you jammed it together right as it stops spinning you can see that you were actually taking up slack between the Chuck and the piece. I think this was preventing the parts from being pushed together hard enough to get proper fusion. The first sample got jammed together really well and you can see how the material oozed out from the joint. Some of those other ones didn't get that opportunity. I'd like to see those try it again but with the material jammed against the face of the Chuck so that it can't slip as you're trying to push them together at the end.
When you took out the first two pieces and hit them 4 times, I immediately starting singing the Hendrix song Dolly Dagger, HAHAHAHA! Perfect. I think it's cool that you got it working. I have a mini lathe and it's tough to get it working.
The first is exactly how a friction weld should look like! It has to bulge a little like this. If you see this (and the combo is weldable at all) it's almost certainly a good connection.
If a material is weldable by any means it usually can be welded by friction welding... if your lathe is strong and rigid enough. Turbine rotors from super alloys similar to your inconel stock are welded like this, but on HUGE machines using drive motors in the Megawatt range or tons of flywheels and hydraulic pressure.
One function that will affect the strength of the weld in any material is the "metallurgical structure". The welded area will potentially have a completely different structure due to the heat and cooling rate than the rest of the material. Sometimes the welded area will have a higher strength, sometimes a lower strength. In commercial friction welding, the pressure and temperature will be accurately controlled. Both pieces of material will be held rigidly / securely to prevent and sideways movement.
it seems like the best welds are those that "mushroom" out. as if they liquify to a point of actual blending of the 2 metals ..
Seems that way. Sounds correct
@@Charles37400 but in welding you'll need a flux or shielding gas
What a creative video, loved the idea and would love to see some applications with this friction welding in a project!
The application of welding these different metals together would and could be awesome for different applications. Where heat resistance in one area might be preferable, where abrasive resistance would be needed else where on the same shift or body!
Try cutting the stock into cone segments. The small face will heat up and conduct the heat backwards pretty well. It'll also minimize oxide buildup if you maintain pressure from the tailstock. Also maintain it after you stop the spindle. I think those in combo will help a bunch.
Wowers that's definitely very unique and BadAss alert and mostly definitely crazy. Always very cool to see your videos. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work Tim. Can't wait to see more videos from you testing all kinds of different types of metals. Always interesting and learning. Forge On. Keep Making. God Bless.
I feel like you should try flooding the area around the lathe with Argon somehow, maybe a circular hood around the lathe, with the titanium🤔
I was thinking the same thing. He needs to surround the outside or the weld with a inert welding gas like Argon so it will stop the oxygen from getting to the weld. On any of the metals this would only make the weld stronger. The 2 different sizes could be done easy enough to by heating the larger size with a rose bud first.
You should try creating a sink for the 5/8” to sit into the 1 1/2” round. Like a mortise and tenon but friction welded together.
Love to see some lateral cuts and chemical etching with closeups!!!!
one way to check the weld is using the lathe and cutting away the excess material. with the bare metal you can anodize it to see if there is any cold shuts on the weld.
Friction welding requires upset (pressing the pieces together to squeeze out metal from the inner faces) to join clean metal together within the weld.
Trimming off the upset removes stress concentrations,
And ideally you would want one of the pieces to be released after upsetting them so that it can spin freely with the drive (continuous drive friction welding is what you’re doing) and allow them to join.
That lathe needs to stop instantly, noice experiments.
I wonder if you keep oxigen out while welding it would improve the weld. Maybe you could spray argon gas on the welding proces.
My brain read Titanium as Tungstun and was like “you MAD MAN”
I’ve got a small amount of experience with this. You had it right with the mild and titanium steel. You need enough heat to flow the metal. That’s what actually welds it, it becomes liquid and mixes. If you do not have “lips” form at the joint then it’s an incomplete weld. And stopping the lathe as quick as possible is a huge part of success. The mar-ageing and inconel will work if your turn them to a smaller diameter and let the metal flow to create “lips”, that’s what we call it.
You deserve atleast a million subs my man.
Welding with friction uses the same concept as a regular welding. The bigger the piece the more heat is needed to weld the pieces together. you can weld the big piece of titanium but because friction is the main method of heating you will need to spin the pieces for longer in order to heat it up. In order to have successful welds via friction welding you need to always have that mushrooming in the middle of the two pieces this ensures that the molting metal is pushed into one another.
You need to ensure material is squeezed out as that will ensure no scale buildup within the joint and that the materials are mixed. Look into stir welding and how that process functions
The titanium REQUIRES 100% purge with Argon or similar gas shielding. From the moment it starts to colour, it is susceptible to atmospheric contamination. Shielding gas must be provided from before colour to final cool-down, or what you get is something that my hold together, but will never reach maximum strength. A test to see if you've got 100% weld would be to hang the piece from a piece of string, and tap it with a hammer. A good, solid weld will actually ring like a bell. The joint should be clean and shiny like chrome, or it's back to the drawing board.
Hello there!
To get a better weld you have to drill a hole in the center of both parts.
1. Because than there is less surface to heat up
2. That bur that forms on the outside of the weld also is on the inside. So it needs some room to go
Cheers and keep up the good work
It isn't on the inside aswell, unless you add a hole for that very reason - The heat makes the interior flow and extrude, if there where an internal "lump" of slag there would be a noticable neck swelling
You need to send these to Hydraulic Press Channel!
This is genuinely super cool
4:10 With friction welding, you need the same diameter faces to be pretty much the same size in order to make the weld. This is because the entire end side of a piece has to connect to the entire end side of the other piece I order to create a solid weld. Having them at the same diameter allows the ends to perfectly rub together to creat the needed friction
maybe if you counter sink a hole in the bigger material the same size of the small thing you're trying to weld it will work better
You are a bit like a mad scientist experimenting. I absolutely love it. Good job Tim
Interested to see what that'd look like if you turned down that mushrooming. I'd imagine the grain structure would reveal a lot about the conditions during the weld. Also, if you do this enough, I'm sure that you'll find that creating some sort of taper to the pieces will help in heating up the opposing surface quicker by starting in a smaller area allowing for deeper penetration with less exterior deformation.
Maybe try socketing/mortis the larger piece? Preheat as well? Internal relief? Lots of options.
This guy is like the linus tech tips of metalworking
If you drill an exact hole in one end and then friction weld the pieces together, theorectly it would fuse even better while the tip can't expent in the hole and get stuck even more.
Sorry for my English..
I’ve done this on a lathe. The problem is that the lathe takes too long to stop. If you watch friction welding they stop instantly. It would be good to make a clutch or some type of release on the drill chuck so it would instantly spin with the lathe chuck.
"Been on an exotic materials kick"
Aaand subscribed
For the metals that didn't work well, i think if instead of machining the ends completely flat, you could try machining them in a bit of a cone shape, with a smaller flat surface, allowing it to heat up faster in a local area, then when its hot enough push it together so it mushrooms out until you reach the base of the cone shape and are back to the original diameter.
10:00 - I'm watching this vid in the dark on a big screen.... just Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think for the carbon steels and the ones that did not weld well, you should pre drill a hole in the one the is connected to the spinning side of the lathe and then bore down the end of the stationary piece to the diameter of the rotating one. Maybe there will be a stronger weld that can resist impact better.
Me: Ah, a lathe. Looks like fun, but what I'm waiting for is...
Timothy: I don't know, lets find out!
Me: THERE IT IS, I"M INTERESTED NOW
I've been eyeing one of these axes for a while but could never pull the trigger. Tonight I guess was the night to make a spur of the moment purchase cause I just bought one. Love your content and look forward to enjoying the axe for years and years to come.
My man said “truth be said” like a legend
I'd recommend a slight relief cut in the middle of one part, and a matching boss on the other. In short, the two pieces mesh like a lego. Overall though, you did a great job on these, and I'd like to see more :)
That’s why friction welding is the best type of weld for strength
The heat needs to be equal on both sides in order for the weld to take, and also the more mushroom you get when you squash them together, that also determines how good the weld is.
You can get a better friction weld by increasing tge surface area between the two parts. If you go from a flat plane to something more of a cone, you will see better results with titanium. You can also just make it peg and hole mate to each other, but thats hard to keep stable on the lathe.
You could lathe a pocket on one side and a matching protrusion on the other so you have more surface area for friction.
Use conical end with hole made as size as little arm, so are metal inside metal. Make cup one end protruding knob on other end.
this was such a cool idea
Mr dyck “yess, yess! Thank thing is so hard!”
I'd try blowing argon across it when welding as a shielding gas. Maybe borax or some other flux might help. I don't know. Cool results from a lathe though.
11:45 whenever I am not sure what to do with my data...so I just admire them and think the data will never see the day of light again
One thing you could do is make the mating surface of both pieces more domed out so that the center of both pieces heat up first and then push them together.
Try making the Jacobs chuck free-spin before you stop the lathe. It might help with preventing twisting the weld.
i like the new direction matthew mcconaughey is taking in his career
Where the surfaces meet you could try to find a way to stop the material that mushes up and away from the bond, like a thin titanium sleeve or pipe slightly bigger.
I think you actually want this to happen, then just grind or shave off that mushed up exterior after.
Miura golf in Japan spin welds the hosel to the club head. Cool process.
Inconel is pretty amazing stuff. I have a machine gun silencer made of inconel and it’s practically bomb-proof
A small to large bar can be done, but needs to be a longer section of the small bar run into the larger piece to get enough heat, or go for a harder steel for the smaller bar and it should run hotter as you drive it in to the larger stock