Electric Danger of Lithium Ion 18650 - Battery Fires Exposed - Possible DIY Solution
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2024
- The danger of Lithium Ion 18650 Batteries and possible Battery Fires Exposed and How to Make Them Safer with a DIY Solution that will work for MOST situations. I was taking batteries out of laptop battery packs and I was getting flashes of shorts when I did not expect them. It turns out the positive and negative parts of the battery are less than 1/8" apart from each other with only a very thin piece of mylar covering them for insulation.
I know many use these batteries for powering e-bikes, in fact I am planning on doing the same. But when i discovered just how close to danger we are to a horrific in-ride accident, I knew I had to find a better method for mounting and protecting them.
These batteries are being put together for my own e-bike build which I am creating here on RUclips, so subscribe and stay tuned :)
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![Cutting open an LG 18650 battery for science [ amateur video warning ]](/img/1.gif)
He talks about the dangers of 18650 batteries while taking a torch lighter to one.... great job buddy, really upping the safety factor there!
So two main problems I saw with your video.
the thick wire wrap you used does not properly let it dissipate heat. all batteries have a nominal operating temperature. different chemistries of batteries have different levels. if the battery stays at or above that threshold you risk permanently damaging the cell or it vents or catches fire. also you shouldn't have double wrapped it with your wrap and the original it came with. way more plastic to hold that heat.
2 you removed the plastic insulator ring. that ring is a thick piece of plastic designed that if the battery wrap were to be damaged, that thick tough ring should stop anything to lay across and short it out.
True. In fact he modified the battery to be more dangerous!
should have put the plastic ring back on there...
Just saying...
@@RedSquirrelEater Agree. That ring is important !
Wonder if he did a dielectric breakdown on the original sleeve and his heat shrink ?
So glad someone else knows about this. I had a big Smok X Cube, which unfortunately uses 18650's and you need to get the fast discharge versions too. The big problem is that the X cube can't self charge, so you regularly have to remove the batteries and put them back in again. After 5 days of having one, I'd encountered what a big short was. The battery housing was so tight that it scraped off the protective ring of the battery and shorted them. This resulted in what I can only describe as a firework flying round my living room. I got burns to my hip which have left a scar and the living room needed to be redecorated.
Back on real cigs again now. ahhhhh....much safer.
I was also naive thinking that the positive and negative were only on the opposing ends until just recently I noticed sparks when I plugged a 18650 with a worn coating on the positive end to my e-cig. The battery started leaking right away. I'm glad that I found out this without a more sevear accident! Great vid! I agree that the insulation on these is way too thin and prone to wear off with just normal plugging and unplugging of the battery!
That might be why some of the explode like you may have seen stories of on the news. I do not vape. I have a couple one cell flashlights which I use 18650s and similar batteries in. They are all inexpensive eBay flashlights but I do not use Ultrafire batteries. There are so many potentially unsafe Ultrafire batteries out there that the name has become synonymous with junk. Some people use them but I suspect they may have discharge tested them to find their real capacity before using them in any way. I have seen pics of one that has a much smaller cell rather shoddily wired in and surrounded with some kind of powder. Not only that but batteries of similar quality have outrageous capacity claims. It is easy to get one that has 9000 mAh on the label only to find that it barely even holds a tenth of that when *fully charged*. It is for that reason I resist the eBay specials of fifty for ten dollars and similar sales. That is because you get what you pay for except with those cheap batteries they may even be unsafe.
Put one of these in the same pocket as your car keys and you may go to the emergency room or worse. Thanks for showing how easy it is to short out. I think disposing of the battery once the protection starts to wear away would be best for people using these in portable devices.
Appreciate the informative nature of the video, although I'm sure you've heard this many times before this is NOT a design specific to the 18650. This is the design of almost all cylindrical cells for the last couple of decades. You can verify this by taking apart a standard household AA alkaline battery.
It does seem kind of strange though with the lithium cells on the market now capable of delivering more than enough power to damage themselves and surrounding cells before discharging you'd think the design would have been improved by now.
Good attempt at making the 18650 safer, but you should have re-installed the ring insulator before you used the heatshrink. Hopefully you can still accurately indentify the positive ends after you wrap them with shrink.
🎉 the
What’s the instrumental at 1:12?
Sounds like some Wawa like synth chords. Probably pre bought sound loops?
Did you consider the thermal properties of the original plastic coating vs. the shrink wrap you are replacing it with?
The batteries need to have a way to release heat - might not be much, but with every degree they are warmer, they perform worse...
For what I am using the batteries for, this is absolutely fine. Most of the comments on this video are pathetic really, based on partial viewing and not seeing my comments typed using the youtube overlays, explaining myself. I am creating a vehicle with battery storage in an open air holding system. BUT even that has changed over time. I have learned much over time and since making the video, I now see they have nice battery holders which are easy to purchase. The main focus of the video, really was simply to show that the negative and positive terminals are right next to each other. MANY people did not know this, like myself. But I don't mind the comments really as it is simply further exposure. I have a follow up video im working on, which should be fun.
Andrew Jones well you see, I could copy paste my essay (a few HOURS of research) on why these batteries explode on vape mods and all the differences between them, but you don't have a vape in this video, and you just learned the outside of this battery, so I wouldn't bore you with an essay that is irrelevant, but I will say, research how these batteries work before you call the comments pathetic, your truest pathetic for just realizing most of the battery is negative, and I watched you take that plastic piece off the first one and basically toss it, you could have used that, it is plastic and it does provide a small barrier against anything getting in the sleeve
TheRealXesc no don't heatshrink them you are right it can be just as dangerous because depending on how often you charge them and how old they are they have different heat restrictions and while connecting them the heat is going to spread and there all gonna go BANG not nice
they are right next to each other (3mm apart to be exact), thats how they work, that white insulation ring is what protects them in a way, along with an undamaged wrap, if you take the insulator off and put those batteries in a device, any device, the positive connector on the sled will touch the positive and negative, causing a short, and most likely and explosion or fire, whereas with that insulator on and the wrap undamaged this cannot happen.
Protected 18650 cells have a circuit on the negative end of an already wrapped battery with short circuit protection etc and a piece of metal running from that circuit to the positive up the side of the wrapped battery, then another wrap goes on top to cover that, with that white insulation ring still in place, its the most important safety device on the battery
Dude, from your responses, your narsosistic in my opinion. Simply admit that your wrong and remove the video. Its a danger and leading others to believe that this is a good idea is dangerous. I would advise anybody that suffers damage to property or life because of this to sue the pants off you and throw you in jail for life.
What got me is the title of the video claiming to make them safer, but in said video you dead short low-drain (probably ICR) to show the neg-pos thing. Even a quick dead short can cause venting. And, I think there is more danger potential with using a wrap that insulates the heat in the battery. If someone has enough know-how to make a battery pack, I am pretty sure they know about the positive and negative post and definitely know not to tamper with or remove the wrap.
If the thicker heat shrink only fits *your* purpose, since you say you'll be using it in a go-kart with adequate airflow to keep them cool, I think the video should reflect that the wraps will work for situations like that, It's not making them safer for your audience if they're not using them in the same way.
S-One
So now, how do you distinguish the positive and negative terminals? The scratching really isn't too much of an issue, the "dangerous" part is protected by the little plastic ring you removed.
But I gotta say, the black does look a lot better :)
The plastic ring and heat shrink are perfectly adequate. Unless you hold your soldering iron on for too long and melt it. Your dealing with 4.2v at the most,it's not going to jump the gap by any means and those with the new heat shrink wouldn't fit in a 18650 torch anymore.
TheLukey21 This is not for a torch or Vape use. It is for a 4000Watt 192Volt Go Cart / Car I'll be making this summer on RUclips. ;)
Andrew Jones
Exactly. The double insulating layers would be of use in a flashlight or vaporizer battery that's frequently handled. In a vehicle pack it's not needed just like it's not needed in a laptop pack. The pack is poorly constructed if it relies on the shrink wrap to actually insulate anything while in use.
You are placing a thicker, more insulating layer which prevents the batteries from cooling as efficiently. Heat dissipation in a battery, particularly Lithium, is important.
While I agree that having the terminal so close is an odd design, battery designers, in general, are well aware of what they are doing...
Laptop battery packs are generally well soldered and nowadays have a very low failure rate.
+RalphSeguin anyone modifying battery packs like myself probably has some kind of understanding like myself of the thermal retention of the packs as the amperage draw builds. For myself, I am creating series of battery packs for an electric bike, which will be vented and cooled much more than normal batteries, plus the whole unit will have a thermal sensor, so the temp will be monitored at all times.
Fully Agree with ralph, the tubing is used for insulation, so if your thermal sensor will measure temperature outside the battery since they are well. Insulated by tubing. Batteries will get hotter easily and no amount of outside cooling will help it since you applied insulated tubes on them. Stay careful and i hope it works well for you. Goodluck bro
Perhaps the original covering was designed to permit the proper amount of thermal transfer as these batteries often have a high current draw and need to dissipate heat. Also you did not replace the plastic ring insulator. Batteries meant for flashlights and portable equipment should have the protection circuits built into them which will also prevent short circuits, over voltage and under voltage. Batteries out of a laptop power supply do not have protection circuits as this circuit is provided by the equipment. One thing to keep in mind though is that a lithium ion battery when permitted to discharge below (over time) it's safe low voltage level can catch fire as internally copper crystals can form a short circuit. Keep your lithium batteries charged and do not store long term without topping them up. When they are worn out - dispose of them properly. Lithium Ion batteries are wonderful for their large capacity but you do need to educate yourself in their use. As far as the negative and positive terminals being close - you can say the same thing about a typical 9 volt battery. Ever put one of those in your pocket with a handful of conductive coins ;) Why are my pants getting so hot?!!! ;)
+Digger D I threw some NiMH AAs in my pocket with my keys when I was working on a project one day without thinking, one ended up nestled in the keys shorted with one key -> Key ring -> second key. Exact train of thought..."The heck...why is my pocket all hot?"
+Raven1024 we are using ours for head lamps. should I use it?
Huh?
Yeah? They're perfectly safe. Just don't stick em in your pocket with a bunch of metal stuff.
Patti Ingalls All batteries if shorted out (direct connection to both contacts) can catch fire. After all they store energy. Put some tape (electrical preferably) over one end of connection if you are going to put them somewhere where they could short out.
Some nice points, thank you.
Lets work with flames on a battery, to make it safer. :D
+kain hall
Yes, but the open flambe ?
this very thing caused me to have very severe 3rd degree burns on both my legs that required skin grafts.. Those of you criticizing this man and have never been severely burned keep doing what your doing im sure you will see why he posted this sooner or later.
Great video.
I thought the same thing about the entire barrel being negative. I am glad someone took the time to take one apart and show it.
This video should be required viewing for anyone who is undertaking a DIY project using 18650's.
Makes me rethink spring contact battery holders for these cells as well.
tedtrash I was thinking the very same thing! I have not seen the spring mounts done well yet, so was thinking of a slot in battery holder with springs on one end. I'll make videos of whatever I end up doing though for sure. One of the next video's will be of a battery going BAD, shorting etc, just to show how volatile they really are.
Andrew Jones
I'm thinking I might just mask the + terminals on mine and coat the ends in liquid gasket. Then I won't have to worry about the increased diameter of the barrel or getting the shrink wrap fitting right.
Your way is probably better for your application . . . or maybe even do both.
I have cheap Ultrafire batteries for now and have just started getting familiar with them.
I've seen photos of the protection circuits for the more expensive ones, and they just don't seem very robust. Seems too easy a part to fail to trust it to keep the house from burning down.
I keep an old cookie sheet under my charger and only charge them when I have time to work on something in the same room.
So what your video has shown me is, Do not remove the plastic ring at top. Obviously it is there to prevent the bridge. Why would you possibly take it apart to show that? They are designed that way for a reason. Leave the ring, right?
You didn't watch the whole video it seems.
I saw your whole video and confirm its informative and "safe" , even without the added comments (which still are good addition). Your points are clear for the general audience so please ignore the senseless comments below.
Thank you Samar! It's unreal how people get, plus a little funny too, to be honest. I appreciate you giving me your feedback. I'll certainly be posting another more indepth video on this subject.
Andrew thank you very much for the informed video that you made and which many people who speak about this subject regarding 18650 lithium battery cells overlook. My questions happens to do with handling 18650 batteries coming from an old laptop/notebook battery that I took apart; Q. How does one discharge charged 18650 batteries that all currently fully or partial charged and since the batteries came in pairs how to I remove the metal connector on the positive and negative without arcing myself or causing them to explode? Also, these batteries I am experimenting with are for a power bank charger used on smartphone - Iphones, Android and I would like to know more about its handling safely and it is proper to use such batteries for this project?
Bladi Viquez I would get some neodymium magnets to trap wires under each end of the battery and find a bulb or a small 4 or 5volt motor etc. to drain the remaining energy from the cells. Or if you have a balanced charger device, you could also use it to drain the batteries I believe, though have not used that function yet. Try not to damage the 18650 or similar types as I have heard of them blowing up after months of sitting around, slowly getting hotter. There are plenty of videos out there showing this. Though am thinking I may show a video of one of mine in a "controlled explosion". How are you rigging your batteries for your project Bladi?
My plans with much information like the one you have provided thank you again! Is for using these 18650 batteries for a power bank chargers which are a Do-It-Yourself kits. Now with this said...my concern has to do with what kind of 18650 batteries I should really be using as the some places say that I must use 18650 protected which are costly but better, but what about the ones one takes from the laptop batteries precise for these projects people experiment for power bank chargers, E-bikes, and other hobby projects? Are they safe at least for usage as I don't want to sell to a customer a power bank charger kit ready to use only to find out that it will blow up in their pants, or purse..you get me! Please help and all recommendation is welcome as I am taking a very informed measure for such endeavor and would like to include safety...thanks!
Andrew also almost forgot to ask...Is it good or safe to solder with a soldering iron an 18650 battery unprotect while it is still charged? Or is it better to uncharge it and then proceed?
Hahahaha you take the protective ring off then claim it's unsafe....
I have about 16 of these 18650's and use them in a variety of dive torches, never had an issue.
+chapmasi The video maker is just pointing out the dangers and letting people better understand how a battery is built and where problems can occur. Yes, putting a single and unmodified cell into a torch is pretty safe and i wouldn't expect there to be a problem. The problems can possibly occur when inexperienced people combine many cells into a battery pack. They may solder cells, which is very bad for the cell, and can mean the insulation is damaged. If the cells are not properly secured and physically isolated from each other, the case of adjacent cells can short out, if the insulation wears through over time. There are many ways in which issues can occur when multiple cells are combined. Using old rejected cells is yet another variable that could result in problems. Building batteries from multiple cells is not something to be taken lightly and i don't think it is a good idea unless the person has a pretty good understanding of electrics and how cells/batteries function.
my flashlight switch got reaally hot because it shorted the battery, battery didn't burn but the switch melted...
I'm an Electromechannical Engineering Technologist. I have designed many 18650 Lithium-ion Power packs for 6 years now. Did lots of research and tests on them.............and I have
to tell you, I'M STILL SCARED OF THE DAMN THINGS!!!. I have seen the damage
they have done to property, machines, People, laptops exploding at airports and
business meetings...etc.
The Gospel
Jesus Christ loves you and died, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven to pay for your sin! Repent and turn to Him and you will walk in light and be saved. Read the book of John and Luke to see God's love for you!
Ha Ha you cant be serius .....
Removes the isolation ring that prevents short circuit and then heats the hole thing over an open flame xD
Just make a better end cap to protect the + and the edge of the -
inches what is this a ruler for rebels?
Maybe it's only me, but please, people if you intend to modify those batteries in that way, make sure you do not cover the venting holes on + side.
Great video! Would that piping fit a 18500 battery?
Dalton Mccorkle Thank you. The same tubing would fit the 18500, just cut it shorter is all.
The problem is that if I wanted to then put that battery into my torch or vape, it's going to be the wrong size. Making them functionally useless for something designed to take them.
+Rob H (BuddyVape) You can see at 11:25, that a pack of 4 batteries is 1/8 " wider than normal, so each is 1/32 " thicker, which is actually too much for many torches...
We get it, you pave.
dyslexias a bitch
You don’t need to do this if ur useing them for a flash light or vape just check now and then for any rips in the battery wrap or insulator cap if you see any buy new premade 18650 battery wraps easy to put on using a hairdryer (alway replace the insulator ring when rewrapping)
thats how almost all cylindrical batteries are. only ones i've seen that arent are C cells made in the 1950s with cardboard middle pieces.
That's good to know thanks. Oddly enough I ended up designing something due to this that would help considerably in creating battery packs with 18650 batteries. I'll show it when ready. I could imagine a bike wreck causing possibly metal to contact the wrong parts of a battery starting a fire.
indeed, its just scary with these 18650's. Most other batteries this size are more forgiving with a short out. Short one of those out, the wire gets hot, short an 18650 out and boom in your face!
what short 18650goes boom when
i thought this was already known, thats why they make the insulating rings
may be protected from bouncing and shorting but it will retain heat like a s.o.b. manufacturers put specific coatings on certain products for a reason and this coating helps the battery vent
At 1:34 of the video you briefly talk about the "little plastic cap on top". This is a ring insulator which is there to prevent the exact problem you are trying to solve against in the entire video. The insulator is thicker than the wrap which you are applying and I bet it does a better job at protecting against a short. In short, the battery design already accounts for the danger which you are highlighting and all needed components are in place to prevent the short from happening.
When making videos about these batteries , I think a prior video should be shown of how dangerous these can be and what happens. Then people will think twice about relying on factory wrap.
I don't understand all the dislikes as this video is very informative...
ALLL batteries have negative body. Well there is few mostly 9volts, but rest is always negative whole battery and i think everybody who uses batteries knows that :)
Even the common alkaline batteries are like that too. I can not think of anyone who doesn't have a few of those lying around and it is because so many things use them in one size or another.
True for one part but false for the part that everyone who uses batteries know this. Everyone has batteries and don't know what they do and have no idea that the whole thing is negative besides the positive end.
Use the nylon washer you removed as its more durable than just your shrink tubing
If you are building packs for motorized scooter or other high impact items use the plastic holders designed for them
You can see a sample of these being used on the electric samba page
thank you. a lot of people bitching about how dangerous litium ions are (and yes they sure can be) you are one of the few that expressed some of those concerns in a constructive way with education. next up someone needs to do a video on ir testing with a scope and signal gen. that might be me soon but im still building my lab. I was in a commercial space but the owner of the "electronics repair" store attempt knew nothing and didnt want to put any future profit sharing in writing even though he was using 5k worth of my equiptment every day. so my apt/flat is currently being converted which is a major pain in the ass. BTW get yourself a 50 usd adjustable temp heat gun on ebay "smd rework station"
As a fire sprinkler fitter 25 years the only actual sprinkler activation I've attended due to fire was caused by a laptop being charged on a carpet next to a couch. Nowadays anything I charge I do so on a flat non flammable surface. However in this case the enemy of lithium batteries is heat. This thick insulating material will not aid in cooling so I'd guess the batteries won't last as long.
I want to ask you, I have a fairly new 18650 battery, but earlier I dropped it and it spit out a liquid like water, I checked the voltage is still normal, is this not dangerous if I still use the battery?
I would recycle ♻️ it. I’m sure having it’s guts spill out isnt a great sign
Ahh, just like that time Gilligan rewired the professors beacon signal when they heard on the coconut radio that the air force would be testing in the area. Well done sir, well done.
ipissed hehe pretty much
great video and teaching on safety regarding the 18650 lithium-battery. Wow all you have to do to make them safer is to heat shrink (wrap) them.
I do a lot of these shrink wrapped batteries and yes it was silly to take off the protective plastic ring.
Also you should have left the ring on when shrinking and if you have a lot to do it is so much easier to stick them under a grill and watch them all shrink together.
These batteries will take some heat as they do get hot in extreme usage anyway.
It's an interesting peek into the anatomy of a battery and i really like the first part of the video. I would, however, advice against replicating the part where you roll your own insulation due to (as others are saying as well) changed heat dissipation characteristics and cell dimensions and it appears the custom isolation is not better than stock (remember that fairly thick plastic ring you removed?). I would also be nervous about using a torch on a li-ion cell, but as you say its not really heating the cell.
Many if not most non original notebook battery replacement availabe in Brazil come from China and have this CJ cells.
I actually bought a replacement pack for a Toshiba notebook that could power it but did not charge.
I opened both the original Toshiba (Sanyo OEM) and the NoName (CJ cells??). There is a clearly visible quality difference, including in isolation and protection.
Packs are 3S(2P) of those 18650 cells, with a tap from each of 4 serial voltage points to BMC board that holds protection and interface to the notebook.
Original Toshiba has 2 thermal sensors, and replacement has 1.
The most striking problem seen in the new NoName replacement is that the weld spotted metal holding a pair of parallel 18650 cells together would actually scratch the isolation, as the hypothesis of this video, and fire internally burning half of the metal shunting the cells and auto extinguishing before something worst happened!
Clearly this isolation is not up to the task, and that lack of quality in both design and implementation put consumers at risk.
Toshiba-Sanyo modules had extra sheets of insulating material to avoid frinction and contact.
Those are UNPROTECTED cells that rely on the BMC board for protection. A short in a single 2P arrangement has absolutely no protection to avoid a fire or even an explosion.
The pack has an UL inscription, but I would not be surprised if it ware a fake one.
you do not need to heat shrink the whole battery..just put on a half inch or so of heat shrink on the positive end...
Safer before you started. Especially since you left off the plastic ring. If you really wanted them to be safe, heat shrink without taking the plastic ring and the outer covering off.
Was wondering if replacing the coating with a heavier wrap would cause the battery to retain the small heat that they make under normal usage to actually over heat the battery and shorten its lifespan?
Probably James Gulrich You're probably right. The end purpose of my own situation will be very different, as they are vented and open to the air flow in the go-cart or Car I will be building this summer on RUclips. Though plan on carrying out a few experiments on RUclips to discover if this is true or not.
Good job !! have you got a link to the heatshrink are you using ?
rickburnout666 Thanks Rick, I'll double check what i have here and get back to you today I'm sure.
What is the size of the heat shrink tube that you used? The problem with some of the heat shrink tube out there is that it makes the batteries more thicker and if you end up sticking your batteries back into your flashlight they would not fit again! I think that the round plastic that you took off from the first battery thats is what prevents the sshort to happen, thats why at the end you ended up sticking the whole battery in the heat shrink tube!
Yes agreed Santiago. I simply purchased regular heat shrink tubing from a local electrical store. At the end of the video I show how much extra in size it adds to the batteries, although the measurements on the tubing say: 3/4" Thin Wall Polyolefin, Part No. 47-20948-BK, Recovers to 3/8" Ratio 2:1 I hope that helps some.
Thank you Andrew. Enjoyed your video.
santiago vindell Thanks so much Santiago.
But you will find this with all batteries, that's why they use the insulator around the body of the cell, how you configure them is up to you or the designer of the product.
Often devices that use these types of battery use some kind of card separator to support the cell, and they have hot glue to hold them solid in place to minimise movement between the cells.
flitsies Yes, I had no idea. Funny as I work with batteries very often. But now I am building an electric vehicle, its the first time I actually took the coating off and quite surprised.
Andrew Jones You will find ordinary disposable cells can also catch fire if shorted out, that's another good reason not to put what is considered dead batteries in normal trash/rubbish bins because they could short out and catch fire.
It's not likely to but it could happen especially if they have been tampered with.
Hello
Is it not better use, liquid tape with the plastic ring on the top?
Regards Thomas
I did something similar for my 18650 that i use in my flashlights. But i didn't use shrink tube because is to thick and they didn't fit, i just used transparent duct tape to insulate them better.
Good job Victor. These batteries in the video are being put together in series and parallel to create a battery pack from an electric bike I am creating which will be here on youtube this summer. The size restraint doesn't matter in my use thankfully.
Andrew Jones
Yes i realized that in your case is not a problem but for my space was a problem. And honestly when i see how fin the protection is on this accumulators, i thought that if i use them in a high power drainage flashlight i better reinforce the insulation on them.
Victor C Yes, better to be safe.
Andrew Jones
That's my moto to ;-)
There is few problems with doing this
1st. Heat transfer from the battery gets impacted.
2nd. expendability of battery. When battery heats up it expends, but when heat-shrink heats up it does opposite, it contracts.
3rd. To properly charge 18650 bms needs to sense temperature.
Good explanation on the fire risk of 18650 battery. Shall take necessary preacuation.
You mentioned when you were getting sparks while opening laptop battery packs, generally if a lipo battery shorts out on itself it's done like dinner for good.
Wow that seems a little sketchy having positive and negative so close to together. I am glad I watched this. That's good to know. It looks like you could potentially short out a battery just by spilling a little water on the top of the battery.
Thanks for pointing out the design and construction flaws which apparently are not common knowledge for the general public. I'll be sure to be extra vigilant for any possible problems while working with these batteries.
Thank you very much indeed Adam Pierce Its funny how much grief I got over this, hehe I have created and invented so much over my time and I had never taken apart from batteries like this. Hence the video.
Andrew Jones Ignore the haters. It's all jealousy on their part. Their poor pathetic lives lack any real semblance of reality so they have to hate on other people.
consaka1 It's all good. I don't mind the haters too much. The idiots help drive my views. :)
It's NOT mylar that they wrap them with, it's merely a different kind of heatshrink tubing to the one you used. Used in the laptop industry since ever without problems. Those of us who use 18650s in torches, ecigs etc are used to rewrapping them in this way when the original heatshrinking becomes damaged, usually around the negative end of the can. The whole can being negative is, as far as i am aware, something that has been common in the battery industry for aeons. I can remember seeing it 25 years ago as a child.
does 18650 requires an overcharge proyection and if yes then how to build that cutoff circuit
Will they slide into a flashlight ? Once in light can they be removed ? Seems to me a tube designed for protection would be in order ? A battery carrier designed to carry multiple batteries perhaps?
Andrew I know exactly what your saying I was very concerned also so when I built my 147 ah pack for my solar power, I also wrapped all the cells inside a fire blanket, then added vents and sealed the whole lot up in Robnor Resin the fire retardant stuff semi flexible it has a texture similar to Rubber.
What about the heat? Does it dissipate well?
@@anonymous175 I don't draw much power from it, it's now 2023 over 8 years later still no issues.
Nice job on the video keep up the great work, at 10:00 how did you make that lighter that is made for grills and lighting candles how did you make it act like a blow torch?
have 2 batteries that wrap has small tear along the negative body. Patched it with electrical tape. have been monitoring them for a week amd so far no overheating. is that safe though if its only along the long side?
why remove the protective ring what if sum conductive things slips through or sum conductive dust builds up there?
What's the size of the shrink wrap you used?
20mm?
Good Idea but-
just add 10 mm ring of shrink tube around positive end-
no need to cover entire battery extra shrink tube -
will also make batteries hotter -
i would have made sure the positive end was lined up and shrank first correctly so all trimming and adjustment can happen on the safe negative terminal
I would say that all A, AA, AAA batteries has similar construction and even NiCd and NiMH will cause heat and burn if you shorten them out. No news, has been like this for 15-20 years at least..
It's very interesting topic, and I'm glad that you came with this idea.
I'm a user of an electronic cigarettes, so i have this batteries just in front of my face...
How about 18650 batteries but with "pin" top, not the flat top, do you think they are safer or it's the same problem?
PS: I didn't ripping of the plastic from the pinned one, so i don't know how it looks like inside.
Very informative, thanks for the advise. I got myself some good shrink tubes to wrap my batteries.
thaks for the advice
can u tell me please how can i charge them with out buying i charger ?
or can i use i normal computer charger ? directly ?
or any idea ^^
thanks
Use a proper lithium charge controller. Lithium batteries are dangerous if not charged properly.
The plastic ring on top made the battery safe, shorts along the negative side are usually towards grounded screws anyway so those are harmless.
Panasonic makes 18650A batteries. Is this the same for them or what is the difference?
so what you did, was remove the protective wrapping, the protective ring preventing short, and replace it with heat shrink tubing that will make it virtually non compatible with any 18650 holder, no insulating ring, and insulate the battery to more heat. GOOD FIX A+ GREAT VIDEO
Damn.
You obviously only watched a small part of the video. Figures... It's all good, im well use to the trolls by now. Plus I'm make large battery packs for bikes, I do not use a battery holders that many buy.
+Andrew Jones I just Des ruined what you did throughout the entire video.. how did I not watch the whole thing
+Gregory G Harding described*
Gregory G Harding
what do you think the plastic ring you removed was for? totally unnecessary and dangerous modification
came here because my battery sparked, thanks. turns out it was probably shorting from the top.
Very helpful video. However, a cheap hot air blower would make tube shrinking much easier. Liked
Stankenfrein Thanks so much. Yes agreed on the hot air blower. I've always used an open flame briefly with no bad outcome. All the best!
Andrew Jones It's just kind questionable to talk about safety and then using a flame to shrink the wrap. No hair dryer available? I use a hair dryer all the time.
Patti Pender I've been using a flame for over 15 years with no issues ever. ;)
so your afraid of shorting your battery and having it blow up but your not afraid of putting a torch to it, uuuukay seems pretty legit lmfao
Seeing as how over 40% of the ratings for this vid are thumbs down, I'm sure somebody else has already said this, but this is a time consuming way to make these batteries more dangerous. There is virtually no danger to having the sides of the battery exposed. In cars, the negative battery terminal is connected to to the frame of the car. The frame, engine, and body all have negative potential, just like the sides of these batteries, and it's fine. The only danger is if you have an unfused wire or object close it. Then again, your wire should be insulated anyway. The only real danger would be if the top of the battery was abraded or damaged in some other way so that a metal object would contact the positive end and the negative metal right next to it (just like the wire you used in your video), or if an impact deformed the battery to make these two portions of the battery contact each other. In both cases, the best thing you could do to protect against a short would be to put an impact and abrasion resistant material at the interface between the positively and negatively charged metals, just like the ring it came with from the factory. That ring will take a lot more beating than the heat shrink it was replaced with.
I went back and watched your video again and you were right, I stand corrected.
Good man. :)
I like your idea but I would not use heat tube be cause of the heating process I would use electrical tape also I would mark the positive side on the tape if there going to blow it is most likely the wrong polarity that caused it
Ryan B Yeah, not a bad idea Ryan, though in my playing, the heat that is used isn't too bad and had never affected my batteries life. Though am playing with some testing over the last few weeks to see what's best.
THANK YOU! this is very useful and vital information! that's just ridiculous to make a battery like that! they couldn't possibly make the production so that they include an insulator SOMEWHERE, literally ANYWHERE further away from RIGHT NEXT TO THE DAMN POSITIVE?? that's an absolutely terrible design. They need to include information along the lines of DO NOT USE IF THE WRAP ISN'T PERFECTLY INTACT.
Andrew Miller Dude, thank you! I have had a lot of silly backlash from this video. hehe You have to laugh really, but thanks for seeing what i was trying to convey.
you guys have to do some research too. first of all, all 18650 is danger even the manufacturer claim it. ALL except 1 brand is made of used laptop batteries.
also, 18650 was made purposely for flashlights. a lot of expensive flashlight that cost around 100 bucks and more tend to be pickly with some batteries. for example, your electrical shrink wrap will not be able to fit flashlight because its not too thick.
you can put anotation on the video.
Andrew Jones I Think the thing is all batteries are made like that, and have been for some time, this isn't news
For you possibly, but for many that have thanked me for letting them know this, it was news. Just saying.
BlueRice
I can see you're trying to be sarcastic here, but most readers would not understand. Let's state the facts.
18650 is made for industrial use in battery packs. Individual cells are not consumer products.
Flashlight use is just an application of existing technology.
Individual cell batteries are not typically recycled junk, but brand new cells. Only poor cheapo chinese junk is recycled waste.
Cylindrical li-ions are risky, but not because of structural details causing a possible short. That is paranoia.
I have a .5 build Tesla Invader II with 18650 MXJO batteries. I'm new to vaping and my problem is that I can charge the batteries for 2 hours using a Nitecore charger, and my batteries will discharge and become weaker after 25 minutes of usage? These are brand new MXJO 3000 mAh batteries btw, any solutions???
+Cell Jr. The solution is to use a regulated mod (variable voltage / wattage). You're using a mechanical mod so there's no circuitry so you are limited to the voltage coming off your battery. As the battery gets weaker, so does your vape - this is normal. A regulated mod will always draw the voltage you set until the cell is drained.
What size heatshrink did you use?
The information is perfect, but the execution is dangerous. You never put heat on a lithium battery, and you also never short-circuit a lithium battery without protection.
my battery casing scratched off a cheap 18650 like this one, and it was in my jeans pocket and rested next to my penknife and loose change. it began to get really hot in my pocket, i put my hand in and burnt myself and leg! nothing serious but I managed to get it out. my penknife was hot as hob on a cooker! and my loose change was to hot to handle.
what brand is the battery you start this with? I have this battery from a ecig mod I ordered and cant find what kind of battery it is?
yeVh cVme free with a mod I bought on ebay. threw it away
Nice video, trouble is manufactures use cheap heat shrink most batteries on the market are the same.
The most dangerous video I have ever seen on RUclips I hope no one follows
Just got deep into electronics for the first time. Reading 12 grade/college textbooks on DC, AC ohms law, learning how to read circut diagrams and got my first multimeter, (geeking out measuring stuff with it). I wan't to build my first lithium ion battery with 18650's. Maybe 40 amp hrs. With that many cells (can I balance them in parallel like LiFePO4 cells and get a good bluetooth BMS?) Do you need to harvest them sparingly, carefully? Only go with the best ones, and your ok. Assuming you have a temp sensor BMS with overheat auto shut down software on it, - can I go as high as 50 - 80 amp hr a 18650 celled battery and be safe from fires? The battery will be in a RUclips Vanlife Van. Also where's the best place to harvest 18650's
Hi all!
How to preserve a 18650 for a long time without using it? 80% charge once every 6 months, and store it in dry and room temperature, or fully charge it and leave it for a 1year, or 2? Thank you!
Thicker 'skin' will preclude cells from fitting into plastic mounting spacers. Replacement plastic insulator rings are readily available.
Now you can have a fire because the battery got to hot. The casing on the negative is fine as it was designed. With two layers of covering the battery internal temps are sure to increase.
Walter Sudymont
Two layers of wrap is an industry standard in any protected battery. There is the original cell wrapping and the outside wrap after installing the protection circuit. Extensive field use experience proves this is not a problem.
+TheVessapaperimuumio The problem is he's probably going to end up with 3 layers. Original, Heat Shrink, then one over the whole pack. Then possibly the pack inside a box of some description. It's unlikely to cause issues, but it could.
I would say just do the top 3/4 inch and leave the rest if you are uncomfortable.
I don't see why the standard plastic wrap is unsafe and needs improving ?
In my experience, I don't find the black rubber shrink wrap that you've applied particularly protective against sharp objects - in fact, I'd go as far as saying the original plastic is tougher.
If you're going to bundle the batteries together, why not just add extra protection around each pack and leave the individual batteries as they are ?
And I don't envy you soldering tabs between the battery terminals - if you've got a mini spot welder, then fair enough, but I'd say the risk of soldering dozens of batteries is greater than the risk of leaving them in their plastic wrapping.
I've done similar projects but on a much smaller scale (cordless power tools etc..) and I just use a battery holder. It means I don't have to do anything to the batteries and they can be replaced if required. Could you not just get a few of these: www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Pointed-Batteries-Battery-Holder/dp/B00CQKAZES/ref=sr_1_24
Good luck with the project though - I'm not meaning to put you off :)
To make Li-ion cells *safer*, you heat them with a flame!?
They can handle this small amount of heat no problem. I also solder the tips of mine to create much larger cell packs. - Never had an issue with flame while heat shrinking, period. ALTHOUGH arcing from one terminal to another is a much more serious issue, especially as these are usually used to create much larger cell packs where the amperage is much higher. With THAT, you have instant issues.
while in the microwave at full
andrew jones the terminal closeness isnt an issue at all , personally ive known this from 10 yr old playing with batteries , most people who will takle building an e bike or something of that nature will also know this simple understanding of the ways of the batteries , i find it surprising you think this is an issue , the regulation of batteries and their safety is extremely high , and the batteries were perfectly safe in their own enclosure , all covered and " the ring " you took out was the main protector ..
thats very r8 ...n nice informative vid... but last month with one of my projects i noticed that when iam connecting the negative part of the batteries near the positive(above the indented rim) iam getting different battery life and charge readings although when i connected the negative part of battery at the extreme end i got better battery life and more accurate battery charge readings...i got same result with 3 different setups.... cd not explain to myself why its happening as its a single complete negative shell.....just want to know if anyone else experienced the same or if anyone can explain it......
So you converted 18650 batts into 19651 batts by removing the insulation and replacing it with heat-shrink, or by putting heat-shrink over the original insulation, and in the process of doing so discovered that when you remove the insulation and short the exposed terminals out, current flows. in the process you may have also adversely affected the batteries by over heating when heating the heat-shrink, and you have no idea how what you've done will affect their heat dissipation. Did I miss anything out?
+Denis McMahon yes, you missed much. But glad you got that off your chest.
hello sir.
i have a collection of flashlites. as i watched your videos, now im afraid of my Li-ion battery now...
is it ok. if i wont remove the thin plastic cover and put directly the shrinkable insulation???
Karim Ash your batteries are fine. I was simply showing how to be careful, as many creators make battery powered items using these batteries. Leaving all protective covers on your batteries is the safest thing to do.
Also, since your batteries will not be in danger, I would not add extra insulation to them.
wow that was a fast reply...
sir...
just to make sure. i want to put shrinkable insulation to all my batteries
ill start tomorrow.
thank you sooooo much for the info and your very helpful video...
Karim Ash I would not do it. I would only hear shrink batteries if you are using them for custom applications, like home made electric bikes
I have seen a video of one shorted. It looked like 4th of July fireworks so be careful not to short them. You might also want to get a paint marker and mark positive and negative since they now look almost the same. A paint marker is similar to a permanent marker and sticks to more surfaces. It will still wash off with some solvent easily like permanent marker.
and blow torching them is safe? they are sensitive to thermal shock
Tom Hambling Blow torching does in no way make internally hot (core heat) as they get when being used in my Fashlights. The blowtorch is only surface heat for a few moments and in no way degrades their capacity to hold and provide energy. Most battery packs are heat shrunk with blisteringly hot, heat guns. But yes, visually, I get your point, it looks bad.
Cool
Thanks Tom