Wasn't expecting this game to be casted since I didn't submit it but I always enjoy your casting anyway! I wasn't expecting to go up against someone decent and knowledgeable about the Warcraft 3 techtree since it was just a random custom game I joined, so embarrassingly I fumbled very hard, lol. I really should've went High Templars to storm all those Riflemen and feedback the Sorceress/Priests. Some things to note: - The games you've casted so far have been on Versus Edition, which intends on keeping the basic Starcraft playstyle so there won't be any heroes for the Starcraft factions in this one, but as of right now it is the "most-balanced" and focuses more on PVP. The base version of Azeroth-Koprulu Hyperwar - The Sorceress do not gain bonuses from items. They had Inner Fire on them which increased their damage by 10%, and their main contribution to the fight was the "Slow" ability, which significantly reduces the attack rate and movement speed of a single unit (particularly good against my Immortals and Stalkers). - A lot of the replays posted on the Azeroth-Koprulu Discord are mostly in favor of Warcraft 3 because we rarely get matches as Starcraft where the Warcraft player knows what they're doing, so the matches typically end in a very basic timing push that kills Warcraft 3, which isn't really that fun to watch although it does show how vulnerable Warcraft factions can be.
Hey Rosebudio GG! Thanks for the info - that's a great point. I can imagine a lot of the games that favor SC2 might involve players that aren't as experienced with WC3. I'm sure as time goes on we'll start seeing a meta develop! The early push with the hero is crazy
@@ElleixGaming early push with hero might just be broken. Damage also seems to be all over the place. Toward the end there, the Stalker did no damage toward anything and the priest heal was out healing most of the dps. Why didnt the protoss go DT? Warcraft 3 has very low detection and into HT with storm might of been the proper decision. Those immortal were just useless and gave a lot of experience to the hero. My recommendation is for them to reduce the warcraft supplies to 100. If the warcraft player are expanding that easily and quickly then something is wrong. In Warcraft 3, expanding is very difficult and rarely do game have more then 2 bases and very normal to just have 1 base. Giving Warcraft player 100 extra supplies and easy expansion already break the game.
@@Newbtuber Agree with the rest but SUPER HARD DISAGREE on lowering supply-cap. That is maybe the single greatest thing about this mod. Supply caps suck. Balance it another way.
Disruptor, Colossi, and Sentry were very effective. Just needed a bit better Forcefields and to actually back up so they prevented the enemy on the far side from being in range to help. Nova is particularly effective since WC3 units tend to be high-density and it cuts through Armor.
I've never seen a starcraft faction win a game in this mod. It seems like the warcraft units are balanced around being too sturdy for them to lose an even army fight against the starcraft armies, which forces the starcraft armies to go for base races or wear down warcraft armies by damaging them over multiple army fights(as in the case of zerg who have a quick remax), and going for base races is a problem because warcraft bases are well defended by comparison.
The Colossi were cutting them down quite easily initially. And the Disruptors were highly effective too, since the WC3 units are quite small and tend to clump hard. Had the Forcefields and positioning been better, SC2 could easily have won. The Hero aggression at the start is brutal though.
@@BunnyHoppin-That’s really interesting! From a lore thematic perspective it’d be closer to have undead v zerg (unstoppable wave of destruction) alliance v terran (humans) night elf v protoss (powerful empire of wise and ancient beings)
Yeah, it's not exactly 1:1 in any specific area, but Undead generally have the best Heroes, with units that trend towards being pretty good within specialized roles, but are less robust than the others. They also combine the build style of Protoss with Creep requirements, although Creep stays where it goes. Hard mechanics they mesh poorly with Starcraft, since the Undead tag as a whole doesn't really exist, the SC races don't have corpses, how do Blight and Creep interact, ect, but the broad strengths of the army lend themselves pretty nicely to Starcraft, probably, though the larger pop of standard play means consistently coil+nova ing one unit per encounter is less impactful. Flying Circus builds do pretty well, and Frost Wyrms probably benefit pretty hugely from the larger pop, resource quantity, and blobby nature of combat. Skeleton Harass is gonna be a nightmare for SC factions though, since the usual downside, feeding exp to heroes, doesn't apply. It's just skeletons, all day, every day, chipping at buildings and units. The Meat Wagon has increased value against SC factions, since no corpses, and Disease Cloud is MASSIVELY better against Starcraft units, since Disease Cloud was tooled to muscle through things that actually regen hp per second naturally, that's going to just melt Starcraft units. Also they harvest wood (gas?) with a combat unit, so there's almost always some combat units in reserve for whatever. I'm curious if Colossus can be hit with Crypt Fiend web. I assume they can. Gargoyles are gonna have a field day in Starcraft. Night Elves have slightly worse units in most categories, but can funnel health and mana into heroes readily, are great at preserving their units, and while most of them are a bit worse than their most direct comparisons, Druids of the Claw are no joke, and make the faction as a whole pretty resilient. They sorta build like Zerg, with some of the buildings consuming the builder, but those are also the buildings that can kinda do the Terran thing, except instead of flying, they just uproot and walk. Also those buildings all have a melee attack, and can be used early on to help fight neutral monsters early, or do some weird, wacky rush or counter rush strategies. Heroes are split between great, niche, situational, and eh, though I'm not sure Warden Solo really... works with how high burst damage gets here. If Wisps can harvest infinite gas like they can wood, that could lead to some... interesting strategies, but I don't think it works that way. Also dunno where the Keeper of the Grove's treants come from. I assume he is not, in fact, animating the Vespine refinery to attack the workers, entertaining as that would be. The buildings sucking gas out of vents to heal also is an entertaining mental image. Priestess is probably cracked in team battles with a Starcraft faction, her aura was definitely tooled for a game with a relatively even balance between melee and range, parking her next to a Starcraft blob just sounds frightening. Also similar issue for the Demon Hunter's Immolation Aura as the Undead's Disease Cloud. Orcs generally have better units than the others by direct comparison, but have a somewhat rougher economic situation, having no real benefit to their infrastructure, besides their farm doubling as a bunker for workers specifically, to make them more resilient to harassment. Mix of rugged and versatile units, but can be vulnerable to counterpicks, which is of increased note in the context of Starcraft 2. Good heroes, Shadow Hunter snake rush might be incredibly awkward to deal with in SC2, and spirit wolves can harass workers for basically free against Starcraft factions. Shamans might be a goddamn problem, since Lightning Shield was balanced around a game where unit micro and spacing was of much higher importance; like three shamans could have absolutely wrecked the Colossus and Stalker ball. Also a Kodo eating an Ultralisk sounds hilarious. Humans are the best at rushes and fast expansions due to power building, and Peasants gaining tons of speed when converted into Militia. Later game they also have the best tools for focused base destruction, and have pretty solid answers to enemy spellcasters, heroes, and power units. Dragonhawks just beat carriers, colossus, or battle cruisers. Fairly weak heroes though. Archmage is kinda the beginning and end of interesting things they have, especially since doing funny things with the Blood Mage like building cannon towers in holes burnt into the trees aren't on the table. That said, Flame Strike actually might be serious business with how blobby Starcraft combat usually is. Polymorphing a battlecruiser sounds funny though. A lot of this depends on how things end up getting adjusted and balanced though.
Its so funny to hear the guy casting with no experience in Warcraft3. It sounds like the esports casters for random Sc2 events in the early age of WoL :D
I’m surprised that bw/sc2 players have not played wc3 before and vice versa. Or even bw that haven’t played sc2. It’s basically the same company, the same genre and the same games with different skins.
I think this mod would be more fair, if the Starcraft teams get their Heroes unlocked too. I love the idea, but the hero only grows stronger over time, so its not really fair for the Starcraft player.
An alternative I can see for the fact that the Warcraft 3 factions have heroes, while the Starcraft 2 factions don't, could be making the first hero cost resources like the second and third do. A free hero sounds like an overwhelming advantage in favour of Warcraft 3. Either that or increasing the Food cost.
Warcraft's races are gonna be alot stronger than Starcraft's, because they have Hero units, that empower whole armies with they abilities and themselves in different ways, not to mention, that they could use additional abilities, through various items, that they can carry and use to instantly heal, protect, speed up or teleport themself and whole armies. Each hero is equivalent to Mothership with multiple abilities. So for this mode to be more balanced, i think, either Warcraft's fractions should not have heroes or Starcraft's races should have they own heroes, that would work in similar way with progression of they're abilities and stats, they technically have them in campaigns or commander modes. Just need to adapt them to progression.
There's also a lot of DoT's and AoE's that were balanced around Warcraft unit density and micro, and the passive regen everything has. Just from this match, the giant Colossus and Stalker ball just loses to like, three Shamans with Lightning Shield. Demon Hunter Immolation and Undead Disease Cloud just melts units that aren't passively regenerating. There's also the issue of a lot of harass tools in Warcraft being balanced around feeding exp to the enemy hero. In an Undead vs Starcraft match, there is actually nothing stopping the Undead player from just spamming skeletons to chip buildings and units, or kill workers. Spirit Wolves, Shadow Hunter snakes, and so on also contribute to this. There's also the fact that Warcraft units are much more rugged in general, and not bound to the same hard counter system Starcraft runs on. Sometimes this cuts both ways, but I think Warcraft units end up on top more often than not, with standout cases like the Gargoyle that might completely wrest air control away from a Starcraft race, bullying air units regardless of their focus or cost, and even beating some ground based anti-air. Dragonhawks are in a similar boat, getting an insane value trade vs Battlecruisers, Carriers, Colossus, and the like, while also thrashing base defenses. Warcraft is ALSO balanced around Upkeep. Warcraft penalizes you for filling out your pop cap with reduced Gold income. This means expansions aren't just free momentum, and giant blobs of units aren't really things unless they're hard commitments to end the game. The cap may be 100, but you REALLY don't want to go into High Upkeep without a plan, and even Low Upkeep effectively puts 30% of your gold miners to sleep, so maintaining smaller armies is much more standard. That cap is unleashed for WC3, there's no longer that shackle on expansions or higher pop units, and units that generally perform far above others in worlds where the population and resource limits are lifted, like Frost Wyrms. Frost Wyrms usually lose the game because you either have no money, or no units if you have Frost Wyrms. Now you have money, units, AND Frost Wyrms, who deal splash damage with a slowdown smack dab into giant blobs.
Warcraft just built differently, Starcraft players need better strategies and better micro to win, and to stop pretending they playing against another SC faction. Why play a SC vs WC mod when we gonna nerf WC into oblivion?
I recently played Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm SC2 campaigns. Hero ability use is high in these ones, especially HotS campaign. So, as soon as I saw this mod recently, it was a no-brainer for me that they need to introduce SC2 heroes for this mod for balance. Without that, and without upkeep for WC3 factions, this mod is just a funny joke and a fever dream😂
Sorceress damage scales with their training level (upgrade). They don't benefit from blacksmith upgrades. They cannot utilize items so she most likely had inner fire on her when you checked her damage value (inner fire gives the effected unit a 10% damage buff).
wc3 races seems strong, yea they're expensive but they're very tanky, some are fast, quick to make or have an insane aoe, also the neutral creeps minions only helps wc3, but no sc2, also no heroes for sc2 is lame. obiously these 2 races are not desingned to fight each other so there is a to be a balance not only for wc3 but from sc2 too
No Blink is nuts. Mm, long-range Colossi are something Human has no easy counter to, that I can think of. Maybe Poly would work? 10:10: Holy F that Hero dropped fast! 10:35: Great surround. I think he's gonna need Sorceress to Slow the Colossi though, or flank with Knights. 11:30: Double supply cap is a HUGE improvement. I hate supply/unit caps. 12:15: Huge win here! Wish he'd targeted down a second Colossus though, and imagine if he'd put the Storm on that It would be so funny if you could Dispel the Recall ;p 14:10: Mistake of the century 14:25: OMG, the sustain from the Priests is as good as the Super-Battery 🤣 15:48: The Sentries just wanted those Peasants to know that they COULD have stopped them, if they wanted. 16:20: Yeah, I think that's too many Knights... 16:45: He went so heavy melee and didn't flank... not good. And I can't believe he didn't use Storm; Toss were perfectly clumped. 16:50: Critical miss on the Novas there; could have killed half a dozen Knights. More Disruptors FtW. I would try Carrier, but the Armor is gonna be soooo high on the Knights, with the Priest buff. Can probably take out the Priests easily first, though. 18:18: He had a great chance to zone out all the casters but then stopped retreating inside their range AND sat in the ice storm...
WC3 Heroes can only level up to lvl5 from killing creeps (the mobs guarding expansions), but they gain exp from killing enemy player units up to the maximum level limit (10).
Heroes from the last missions of sc2 terran campaign - Raynor, Tychus, Swon, Nova/Tosh. Heroes from zerg campaign - Kerrigan, Zagara, Dehaka, Stukov. Protoss also have heroes in LotV.
But starcraft multiplayer doesn't use heroes, giving heroes to starcraft or nerfing warcraft heroes would miss the point of pitting these two games against each other if we gave one side an unfair advantage. If warcraft wins most of the time, it's just because warcraft is built differently and starcraft players need to get better at developing strategies instead of pretending it's a terrain matchup when playing against humans or orcs. Let the mod run and someone will find something, and if they don't then just laugh at the carnage.
The priest units literally are moveable shield batteries for the Knights...like Knights by itself is already tanky then you have a Priest that can heal almost half its hp per spell lmao too imbalance 😅😅
Bear in mind that the wc3 player needs to be able to get to that critical mass. From what I’ve heard, they tend not to, and wc3 has a terrible win rate, losing to a basic timing attack.
That still means it’s imbalanced if just a single strategy works and late game is just an ff situation, just how Protoss air ball got nerved and Protoss changed needs to happen here too. And just wait till Warcraft players find out how to do timing pushes and build orders themselves. Though one has to keep in mind it’s a fan mod and that means great work and complaining should be less harsh than people are, already amazing just that it’s exist.
I need to go back and check if it's compatible with Scion but I do know you can go WC3 vs SC1, still have yet to find a replay featuring that sort of matchup!
Please watch some more WC3. It doesn't take a lot of time to get familiar with the units and structures. Minimum know the names of the heroes such as Arc Mage, Pala, MK and so on
Wc3 player didn't have a good army comp at all, all I see was a problem of balancing. He made a mistake for the second hero choice (should've been high elven mage for a good aoe), got lots of elven healers which is unnecessary, didnt use mortar teams or tanks vs a collossai build I don't know why, all he did was having the human mage hero as a perfect starter and having knights which are too tankier than they should be imo. If I'm not wrong, human player didn't use item shop which is a big disadventage vs stealth units, it was a real good chance for dark templars in an engagement outside of the human base.
Gyrocopters into Colossus blobs sounds so good. Dragonhawks probably shut them down, too. Dunno how some of these air-only warcraft abilities work against the Colossus though. And yeah, I thought about the Blood Mage. The massive blobs of Starcraft combat sound like good eats for him.
@@koloraider indeed, but its only a slaughter because of the approach of both sides. When they learn what to expect from each other, they will play better. It's not just a matter of balancing. WC3 and SC2 are different time-paced games, normally a WC3 game is a LOT slower in terms of mobility and battle speed, the mod must change wc3 approach to that speed completely or create a middle-way
Peasants aint buildin scout towers. They build just base tower with no attack which you can upgrade into 1 of 3 forms. Scout, mage(low damage but burns mana) and cannon(AOE damage)
for me its looks little unfair, creator of this mod remove fev lack of warcraft 3 arising from them system like 100 units cap but apply all strong aspects like heroes
Watching a couple of these matches, and it all look to me like the SC2 players are clueless of what to do. They didn't bother research WC3 or even tried out with A.I first somehow. You come in a game vs WC3 you should KNOW the Hero's coming and you didn't bother lock down the gate and build defense? This game would've ended in 5 mins if the Human hard committed to the rush.
I think this is a matter of WC3 not being as well known and SC2 being known by basically everyone in the rts community. The amount of surprise I see from SC2 players in these replays when a good chunk of their army evaporates is proof of their ignorance to the WC3 units, let alone the WC3 meta. While opposite, WC3 players know every trick in the book for SC2 and can stay 3 steps ahead no problem.
Why all games I saw warcraft always wins? Is the balance too broken, or you just cast the games where warcraft wins to make the warcraft afns to join StarCraft?
Balance. 1 - No "upkeep" and pop cap 200 allows wc3 factions to maintain high economics with giant armies. 2 - wc3 has heroes available, sc2 does not, which is a crazy oversight. SC2 campaigns heroes are very strong and interesting to play. I suppose mod makers just forgot SC2 campaigns even exist, lol.
Eeeee Warcraft 3 🎉🎉🎉🎉 por siempre 👀🫡 es como la guerra del pasado y futuro 🤔 me pregunto yo ❓ cual seria el presente??❓ Mmmmm ejemplo ARMY MEN R.T S. 😁🫡 ya que STARCRAFT tiene BONBA NUCLEAR y army men tiene BONBABERDEO
It's free! All you need to do is launch the game, select custom, then melee, select whatever map you'd like and at the bottom right there is a 'Create with Mod' option. Click that and type 'Azeroth' in the search bar and the mod should come up
That’s where balancing changes will come in. Also bear in mind we’ve only seen games where wc3 won so far. Apparently there’s many, many games where wc3 loses to a simple basic timing attack.
not really, WC3 Priest only heal a bit of hp per/sec in the original game but here we can see them healing human units to full heal almost instantly. The mod is still imbalance in many ways tbh
Warcraft units mostly have bigger health compared than Starcraft. And also the armor system are quite different (I think... 'cause I never played the mod) Starcraft armor system are: damage - armor value = damage taken While Warcraft are damage - armor type - armor reduction = damage taken
@@FenekkuKitsune wc3 winrate is more of a player's mastery of the game units/structure, right now most players that played the mod aren't that good at wc3 tbh. like for example WC3 is known for being able to burrow/tower/ziggurat rush quite fast that Sc2's meta wont be able to defend against it with starting units alone tho... towers meta rush will become obsolete as the game become longer.
this mod is so badly made. warcraft units are all much faster and stronger than they should be. priests healing 25 per cast? wtf, they should be tuned down to match the HP scaling in starcraft. they should heal 5. a level 1 hero should also be much weaker
Wouldn’t say it this harshly but agree a priest just tanked a clossus shooting at it, and only stuff died in the run by really when the disruptors insta killed. Also no clue what one could do against a hero rush, and the knights seem just like way better ultralights and inner fire with +3 armor is just broken in starcraft
At this point I am certain you are doing this on purpose with the thumbnail. You don't need a misleading thumbnail featuring the a tile like WARCRAFT 3 VS STARCRAFT 2 When the image is clearly a starcraft 1 Nexus against the warcraft base. Cmon man, it is not that hard to spot the difference I should think.
We’re only seeing games where wc3 wins. There’s many, many games of the wc3 player losing to a basic timing attack, but we don’t see those ‘cause they’d be boring. It’s not as imba as you think
Seeing an immortal dissapear immediately as it fights the marksmen at the start was insane. . it feels imba lol
It must be suck witnesses a Highly Advanced Plasma Shield technology and well shaped armor plating got beaten by a simple Blunderbuss Rifles 😂
Toss tech been losin' to Terran kinetic metal for decades ;p
Disaster was stalkers vs knights under priest buffs and paladin aura.
Garithos be proud of these Human army destroying the inhuman beasts 😅
Agreed!
Ah yes, the classic archimage 2min rush. The peak of SC2 strategy
Yea no wonder I just watched w3 vs sc2 to first time
Wasn't expecting this game to be casted since I didn't submit it but I always enjoy your casting anyway! I wasn't expecting to go up against someone decent and knowledgeable about the Warcraft 3 techtree since it was just a random custom game I joined, so embarrassingly I fumbled very hard, lol. I really should've went High Templars to storm all those Riflemen and feedback the Sorceress/Priests.
Some things to note:
- The games you've casted so far have been on Versus Edition, which intends on keeping the basic Starcraft playstyle so there won't be any heroes for the Starcraft factions in this one, but as of right now it is the "most-balanced" and focuses more on PVP. The base version of Azeroth-Koprulu Hyperwar
- The Sorceress do not gain bonuses from items. They had Inner Fire on them which increased their damage by 10%, and their main contribution to the fight was the "Slow" ability, which significantly reduces the attack rate and movement speed of a single unit (particularly good against my Immortals and Stalkers).
- A lot of the replays posted on the Azeroth-Koprulu Discord are mostly in favor of Warcraft 3 because we rarely get matches as Starcraft where the Warcraft player knows what they're doing, so the matches typically end in a very basic timing push that kills Warcraft 3, which isn't really that fun to watch although it does show how vulnerable Warcraft factions can be.
Hey Rosebudio GG!
Thanks for the info - that's a great point. I can imagine a lot of the games that favor SC2 might involve players that aren't as experienced with WC3. I'm sure as time goes on we'll start seeing a meta develop! The early push with the hero is crazy
@@ElleixGaming early push with hero might just be broken. Damage also seems to be all over the place. Toward the end there, the Stalker did no damage toward anything and the priest heal was out healing most of the dps.
Why didnt the protoss go DT? Warcraft 3 has very low detection and into HT with storm might of been the proper decision. Those immortal were just useless and gave a lot of experience to the hero.
My recommendation is for them to reduce the warcraft supplies to 100. If the warcraft player are expanding that easily and quickly then something is wrong. In Warcraft 3, expanding is very difficult and rarely do game have more then 2 bases and very normal to just have 1 base. Giving Warcraft player 100 extra supplies and easy expansion already break the game.
Thanks for submitting the replay. It’s definitely one of the best games of this mod I’ve seen so far
@@Newbtuber Agree with the rest but SUPER HARD DISAGREE on lowering supply-cap. That is maybe the single greatest thing about this mod. Supply caps suck. Balance it another way.
Disruptor, Colossi, and Sentry were very effective. Just needed a bit better Forcefields and to actually back up so they prevented the enemy on the far side from being in range to help. Nova is particularly effective since WC3 units tend to be high-density and it cuts through Armor.
The maximum level a hero can achieve from neutral creeps is 5.
Ah gotcha! Thank you for that correction!
I've never seen a starcraft faction win a game in this mod.
It seems like the warcraft units are balanced around being too sturdy for them to lose an even army fight against the starcraft armies, which forces the starcraft armies to go for base races or wear down warcraft armies by damaging them over multiple army fights(as in the case of zerg who have a quick remax), and going for base races is a problem because warcraft bases are well defended by comparison.
The Colossi were cutting them down quite easily initially. And the Disruptors were highly effective too, since the WC3 units are quite small and tend to clump hard. Had the Forcefields and positioning been better, SC2 could easily have won. The Hero aggression at the start is brutal though.
Rosebudio left a comment saying that most games are SC2 timing attack stomps, but people don't save the replays because it's not fun to watch.
The hero units are OP, there are no counter for them in SC2. Unless, the mods would bring in Jim and the gang.
I would love to see the undead go against the zerg in this mod
From what I've been told undead still needs some work - so I haven't been able to find any replays of it yet but I'm keeping an eye out!
human is considered the zerg of warcraft 3. undead are more protoss-like. Night elf are closest to terran.
@@BunnyHoppin-That’s really interesting! From a lore thematic perspective it’d be closer to have
undead v zerg (unstoppable wave of destruction)
alliance v terran (humans)
night elf v protoss (powerful empire of wise and ancient beings)
Yeah, it's not exactly 1:1 in any specific area, but
Undead generally have the best Heroes, with units that trend towards being pretty good within specialized roles, but are less robust than the others. They also combine the build style of Protoss with Creep requirements, although Creep stays where it goes. Hard mechanics they mesh poorly with Starcraft, since the Undead tag as a whole doesn't really exist, the SC races don't have corpses, how do Blight and Creep interact, ect, but the broad strengths of the army lend themselves pretty nicely to Starcraft, probably, though the larger pop of standard play means consistently coil+nova ing one unit per encounter is less impactful. Flying Circus builds do pretty well, and Frost Wyrms probably benefit pretty hugely from the larger pop, resource quantity, and blobby nature of combat.
Skeleton Harass is gonna be a nightmare for SC factions though, since the usual downside, feeding exp to heroes, doesn't apply. It's just skeletons, all day, every day, chipping at buildings and units. The Meat Wagon has increased value against SC factions, since no corpses, and Disease Cloud is MASSIVELY better against Starcraft units, since Disease Cloud was tooled to muscle through things that actually regen hp per second naturally, that's going to just melt Starcraft units.
Also they harvest wood (gas?) with a combat unit, so there's almost always some combat units in reserve for whatever.
I'm curious if Colossus can be hit with Crypt Fiend web. I assume they can.
Gargoyles are gonna have a field day in Starcraft.
Night Elves have slightly worse units in most categories, but can funnel health and mana into heroes readily, are great at preserving their units, and while most of them are a bit worse than their most direct comparisons, Druids of the Claw are no joke, and make the faction as a whole pretty resilient. They sorta build like Zerg, with some of the buildings consuming the builder, but those are also the buildings that can kinda do the Terran thing, except instead of flying, they just uproot and walk. Also those buildings all have a melee attack, and can be used early on to help fight neutral monsters early, or do some weird, wacky rush or counter rush strategies. Heroes are split between great, niche, situational, and eh, though I'm not sure Warden Solo really... works with how high burst damage gets here.
If Wisps can harvest infinite gas like they can wood, that could lead to some... interesting strategies, but I don't think it works that way. Also dunno where the Keeper of the Grove's treants come from. I assume he is not, in fact, animating the Vespine refinery to attack the workers, entertaining as that would be. The buildings sucking gas out of vents to heal also is an entertaining mental image.
Priestess is probably cracked in team battles with a Starcraft faction, her aura was definitely tooled for a game with a relatively even balance between melee and range, parking her next to a Starcraft blob just sounds frightening.
Also similar issue for the Demon Hunter's Immolation Aura as the Undead's Disease Cloud.
Orcs generally have better units than the others by direct comparison, but have a somewhat rougher economic situation, having no real benefit to their infrastructure, besides their farm doubling as a bunker for workers specifically, to make them more resilient to harassment. Mix of rugged and versatile units, but can be vulnerable to counterpicks, which is of increased note in the context of Starcraft 2. Good heroes, Shadow Hunter snake rush might be incredibly awkward to deal with in SC2, and spirit wolves can harass workers for basically free against Starcraft factions.
Shamans might be a goddamn problem, since Lightning Shield was balanced around a game where unit micro and spacing was of much higher importance; like three shamans could have absolutely wrecked the Colossus and Stalker ball. Also a Kodo eating an Ultralisk sounds hilarious.
Humans are the best at rushes and fast expansions due to power building, and Peasants gaining tons of speed when converted into Militia. Later game they also have the best tools for focused base destruction, and have pretty solid answers to enemy spellcasters, heroes, and power units. Dragonhawks just beat carriers, colossus, or battle cruisers. Fairly weak heroes though. Archmage is kinda the beginning and end of interesting things they have, especially since doing funny things with the Blood Mage like building cannon towers in holes burnt into the trees aren't on the table. That said, Flame Strike actually might be serious business with how blobby Starcraft combat usually is.
Polymorphing a battlecruiser sounds funny though.
A lot of this depends on how things end up getting adjusted and balanced though.
Its so funny to hear the guy casting with no experience in Warcraft3. It sounds like the esports casters for random Sc2 events in the early age of WoL :D
I’m surprised that bw/sc2 players have not played wc3 before and vice versa. Or even bw that haven’t played sc2. It’s basically the same company, the same genre and the same games with different skins.
I think this mod would be more fair, if the Starcraft teams get their Heroes unlocked too. I love the idea, but the hero only grows stronger over time, so its not really fair for the Starcraft player.
we need a clean wc3 mod with trees and goldmines etc in the sc2 engine..Will still be better than "reforged I mean REFUNDED"
I'm looking forward for more Azeroth-Koprulu Hyperwar mod videos like this :)
Those stalkers getting Mothership core PTSD after seeing that Archmage push them with Water elem bs so early heh.
I really like these videos of warcraft and broodwar vs sc2 races. Bring us some new sc1 vs sc2 videos please!
I got you man! Rest assured SC1 Vs SC2 is still content I'm planning to make!
An alternative I can see for the fact that the Warcraft 3 factions have heroes, while the Starcraft 2 factions don't, could be making the first hero cost resources like the second and third do. A free hero sounds like an overwhelming advantage in favour of Warcraft 3. Either that or increasing the Food cost.
Guy needed more disruptors and feedback the heries
Seeing footman gettin destroyed in secs by stalkers its pretty accurate
Some DT's would have been awesome
Futurstic alien technology thay can teleport across galaxies and destory entire planet <
Man with pikaxe.
nice game, really cool to see these comps collide, hope to see more.
The Human player should have made some mortar teams for long range AOE damage.
Warcraft's races are gonna be alot stronger than Starcraft's, because they have Hero units, that empower whole armies with they abilities and themselves in different ways, not to mention, that they could use additional abilities, through various items, that they can carry and use to instantly heal, protect, speed up or teleport themself and whole armies. Each hero is equivalent to Mothership with multiple abilities. So for this mode to be more balanced, i think, either Warcraft's fractions should not have heroes or Starcraft's races should have they own heroes, that would work in similar way with progression of they're abilities and stats, they technically have them in campaigns or commander modes. Just need to adapt them to progression.
Or sc2 can have the neutral heroes from the tavern, at least.
Wc3 races also need a dropship too right?
@@Cawfeesomethingwc3 has goblin zeppelin
There's also a lot of DoT's and AoE's that were balanced around Warcraft unit density and micro, and the passive regen everything has.
Just from this match, the giant Colossus and Stalker ball just loses to like, three Shamans with Lightning Shield.
Demon Hunter Immolation and Undead Disease Cloud just melts units that aren't passively regenerating.
There's also the issue of a lot of harass tools in Warcraft being balanced around feeding exp to the enemy hero.
In an Undead vs Starcraft match, there is actually nothing stopping the Undead player from just spamming skeletons to chip buildings and units, or kill workers. Spirit Wolves, Shadow Hunter snakes, and so on also contribute to this.
There's also the fact that Warcraft units are much more rugged in general, and not bound to the same hard counter system Starcraft runs on. Sometimes this cuts both ways, but I think Warcraft units end up on top more often than not, with standout cases like the Gargoyle that might completely wrest air control away from a Starcraft race, bullying air units regardless of their focus or cost, and even beating some ground based anti-air. Dragonhawks are in a similar boat, getting an insane value trade vs Battlecruisers, Carriers, Colossus, and the like, while also thrashing base defenses.
Warcraft is ALSO balanced around Upkeep. Warcraft penalizes you for filling out your pop cap with reduced Gold income. This means expansions aren't just free momentum, and giant blobs of units aren't really things unless they're hard commitments to end the game.
The cap may be 100, but you REALLY don't want to go into High Upkeep without a plan, and even Low Upkeep effectively puts 30% of your gold miners to sleep, so maintaining smaller armies is much more standard. That cap is unleashed for WC3, there's no longer that shackle on expansions or higher pop units, and units that generally perform far above others in worlds where the population and resource limits are lifted, like Frost Wyrms. Frost Wyrms usually lose the game because you either have no money, or no units if you have Frost Wyrms. Now you have money, units, AND Frost Wyrms, who deal splash damage with a slowdown smack dab into giant blobs.
Warcraft just built differently, Starcraft players need better strategies and better micro to win, and to stop pretending they playing against another SC faction. Why play a SC vs WC mod when we gonna nerf WC into oblivion?
These mods for Starcraft 2 make it look like you put an army from Grimdark Future to fight against armies from Age of Fantasy from OnePageRules
I played SC2 and Warcraft 3. All ilya does seems reasonable.
StarCraft 2 should be allowing to use hero to be balanced. Normal hit from Warcraft 2 is crazy .
I agree. Would love to see them add Kerrigan for zerg and a ghost Kerrigan for terran. Campaign heroes from brood war and sc2
@@CawfeesomethingNova/Tosh for terran, to be more in line with SC2.
I recently played Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm SC2 campaigns. Hero ability use is high in these ones, especially HotS campaign.
So, as soon as I saw this mod recently, it was a no-brainer for me that they need to introduce SC2 heroes for this mod for balance. Without that, and without upkeep for WC3 factions, this mod is just a funny joke and a fever dream😂
Sorceress damage scales with their training level (upgrade). They don't benefit from blacksmith upgrades.
They cannot utilize items so she most likely had inner fire on her when you checked her damage value (inner fire gives the effected unit a 10% damage buff).
A hero with an aura item might also explain it...human heros don't natively have a damage granting aura, but they can obtain one via item.
Imagine your a highly advance alien race loosing to regular dorfs with boom sticks
wc3 races seems strong, yea they're expensive but they're very tanky, some are fast, quick to make or have an insane aoe, also the neutral creeps minions only helps wc3, but no sc2, also no heroes for sc2 is lame. obiously these 2 races are not desingned to fight each other so there is a to be a balance not only for wc3 but from sc2 too
Al fin veo un Warcraft humanos vs Starcraft Protoss, ¡lo mejor es que los humanos salen ganando!
No Blink is nuts.
Mm, long-range Colossi are something Human has no easy counter to, that I can think of. Maybe Poly would work?
10:10: Holy F that Hero dropped fast!
10:35: Great surround. I think he's gonna need Sorceress to Slow the Colossi though, or flank with Knights.
11:30: Double supply cap is a HUGE improvement. I hate supply/unit caps.
12:15: Huge win here! Wish he'd targeted down a second Colossus though, and imagine if he'd put the Storm on that It would be so funny if you could Dispel the Recall ;p
14:10: Mistake of the century
14:25: OMG, the sustain from the Priests is as good as the Super-Battery 🤣
15:48: The Sentries just wanted those Peasants to know that they COULD have stopped them, if they wanted.
16:20: Yeah, I think that's too many Knights...
16:45: He went so heavy melee and didn't flank... not good. And I can't believe he didn't use Storm; Toss were perfectly clumped.
16:50: Critical miss on the Novas there; could have killed half a dozen Knights.
More Disruptors FtW. I would try Carrier, but the Armor is gonna be soooo high on the Knights, with the Priest buff. Can probably take out the Priests easily first, though.
18:18: He had a great chance to zone out all the casters but then stopped retreating inside their range AND sat in the ice storm...
A bunch of men on horses beating a Protoss army lol. Human units are way too tanky.
lol I'm in the video😅
Yooo GG! Solid game. That hero rush in the start made for a really interesting game 🤟
and why you said no ?
I haven't played this mod before@@georgisirakovbg4979
Please upload more games for us Iliya. Hopefully with the same opponent too
Really really cool now wanna install sc2 Just to play this mode
WC3 Heroes can only level up to lvl5 from killing creeps (the mobs guarding expansions), but they gain exp from killing enemy player units up to the maximum level limit (10).
The 😢 Warcraft III reforged we wanted but never get.
4:04 Because Gandalf can even survived the fight against Balrog. 😁 So yeah those fancy looking space orcs are nothing to him.
the knights feel like buffed zerglings
I hope they make warcraft maps in a medieval setting with gold and groves of trees
these humans have impressive psyoincs!
Stormgate is such WC & SC fusion.
I want to see mass footman VS mass zealot 😆
I love this!
I am waiting for the undead v terran match up.
Starcraft need heroes too, or maybe warfracaft heroes should be only captains, rebalance and not able to lvl up
Like the brood war heroes from the campaign. They had slightly more hp/dmg. Not OP
Heroes from the last missions of sc2 terran campaign - Raynor, Tychus, Swon, Nova/Tosh. Heroes from zerg campaign - Kerrigan, Zagara, Dehaka, Stukov. Protoss also have heroes in LotV.
But starcraft multiplayer doesn't use heroes, giving heroes to starcraft or nerfing warcraft heroes would miss the point of pitting these two games against each other if we gave one side an unfair advantage.
If warcraft wins most of the time, it's just because warcraft is built differently and starcraft players need to get better at developing strategies instead of pretending it's a terrain matchup when playing against humans or orcs.
Let the mod run and someone will find something, and if they don't then just laugh at the carnage.
The priest units literally are moveable shield batteries for the Knights...like Knights by itself is already tanky then you have a Priest that can heal almost half its hp per spell lmao too imbalance 😅😅
Bear in mind that the wc3 player needs to be able to get to that critical mass. From what I’ve heard, they tend not to, and wc3 has a terrible win rate, losing to a basic timing attack.
That still means it’s imbalanced if just a single strategy works and late game is just an ff situation, just how Protoss air ball got nerved and Protoss changed needs to happen here too. And just wait till Warcraft players find out how to do timing pushes and build orders themselves.
Though one has to keep in mind it’s a fan mod and that means great work and complaining should be less harsh than people are, already amazing just that it’s exist.
Even if he didnt play the mod before, doesnt mean he wasnt a former Warcraft 3 player.
they need to make it WAR3 vs SC2 vs SC1 and maybe even attempt WAR2 and/or WAR1
Question?, how does a gas geyser become a gold mine in base expansion? 😅.
sc2 units shouls be able to summon also heroes like artanis kerrigan and reynoe
well that would be lost its meaning of this mod isnt it
though like you said wanna see it too :)
Sad that there is no map with neutral hero bar
I love the idea of asymmetric army types. Hero-based armies vs quantity-based. I feel adding the SC2 heroes would actually make the game worse.
I miss the WC3vsSC2 Mod, where Heros were regular units. All Abilitys still there, but they aren't THAT STRONG, and you can build more than just 1.
Can you combine all the warcraft 3 mod , scion mods and all custom races mod into a one combined mods??
I need to go back and check if it's compatible with Scion but I do know you can go WC3 vs SC1, still have yet to find a replay featuring that sort of matchup!
Imagina that People would try and do Pala Rifle vs sc2 race 😂
GGs.
You can pause a bit when nothing happens :)
Knife too OP.
this is insane
Warcraft 3 et SC2 les meilleurs jeux du monde ❤️❤️❤️😍😍😍
Imagine if they imported hots characters to give staracft some hero units
Please watch some more WC3. It doesn't take a lot of time to get familiar with the units and structures. Minimum know the names of the heroes such as Arc Mage, Pala, MK and so on
Wc3 player didn't have a good army comp at all, all I see was a problem of balancing. He made a mistake for the second hero choice (should've been high elven mage for a good aoe), got lots of elven healers which is unnecessary, didnt use mortar teams or tanks vs a collossai build I don't know why, all he did was having the human mage hero as a perfect starter and having knights which are too tankier than they should be imo. If I'm not wrong, human player didn't use item shop which is a big disadventage vs stealth units, it was a real good chance for dark templars in an engagement outside of the human base.
Gyrocopters into Colossus blobs sounds so good.
Dragonhawks probably shut them down, too. Dunno how some of these air-only warcraft abilities work against the Colossus though.
And yeah, I thought about the Blood Mage. The massive blobs of Starcraft combat sound like good eats for him.
Are you saying this slaughter could of been even more of a slaughter if the WC3 player was serious?
@@koloraider indeed, but its only a slaughter because of the approach of both sides. When they learn what to expect from each other, they will play better. It's not just a matter of balancing. WC3 and SC2 are different time-paced games, normally a WC3 game is a LOT slower in terms of mobility and battle speed, the mod must change wc3 approach to that speed completely or create a middle-way
Please cast a game with starcraft1 vs starcraft2 vs warcraft 3
Peasants aint buildin scout towers. They build just base tower with no attack which you can upgrade into 1 of 3 forms. Scout, mage(low damage but burns mana) and cannon(AOE damage)
sc1 vs wc3 next! Please~
for me its looks little unfair, creator of this mod remove fev lack of warcraft 3 arising from them system like 100 units cap but apply all strong aspects like heroes
Watching a couple of these matches, and it all look to me like the SC2 players are clueless of what to do. They didn't bother research WC3 or even tried out with A.I first somehow. You come in a game vs WC3 you should KNOW the Hero's coming and you didn't bother lock down the gate and build defense? This game would've ended in 5 mins if the Human hard committed to the rush.
I think this is a matter of WC3 not being as well known and SC2 being known by basically everyone in the rts community. The amount of surprise I see from SC2 players in these replays when a good chunk of their army evaporates is proof of their ignorance to the WC3 units, let alone the WC3 meta. While opposite, WC3 players know every trick in the book for SC2 and can stay 3 steps ahead no problem.
what is the mod called? and can i play with AI?
this mod warcraft is better than even warcraft 3 refoge
Garithos approves.
Why all games I saw warcraft always wins? Is the balance too broken, or you just cast the games where warcraft wins to make the warcraft afns to join StarCraft?
Just a lack of replays available - so if you have any games featuring an SC2 victory please send it my way!
Balance.
1 - No "upkeep" and pop cap 200 allows wc3 factions to maintain high economics with giant armies.
2 - wc3 has heroes available, sc2 does not, which is a crazy oversight. SC2 campaigns heroes are very strong and interesting to play. I suppose mod makers just forgot SC2 campaigns even exist, lol.
4:55 That is called a "deny" because the experience reward for the stalker's death is denied to the archmage when a neutral creep gets the last hit.
are there no undead units?
Undead is available! I don’t have any replays with them yet but hoping to get them soon!
Eeeee Warcraft 3 🎉🎉🎉🎉 por siempre 👀🫡 es como la guerra del pasado y futuro 🤔 me pregunto yo ❓ cual seria el presente??❓ Mmmmm ejemplo ARMY MEN R.T S. 😁🫡 ya que STARCRAFT tiene BONBA NUCLEAR y army men tiene BONBABERDEO
Why not starcraft 2 nexus on the thumbnail though ?
Fair point, it's the Nexus skin the SC2 player was using, typically I make the thumbnail from the game itself so that's why you're seeing it
fantasy vs sci fi
how to do that, and is it free to do so ?
It's free! All you need to do is launch the game, select custom, then melee, select whatever map you'd like and at the bottom right there is a 'Create with Mod' option. Click that and type 'Azeroth' in the search bar and the mod should come up
@@ElleixGaming dang, so now the multiverse is available, thanks for sharing !
벨런스 문제보다... 프로토스 유저가 ..... 영.. 블리자드 떨어지는데 추적자 점멸 않하고 그대로 맞고 분열기는 못쓰고 상대 나이트 몸빵 유닛으로 전환 하는데 옵저버로 탐지도 못하고 .....
booooooooooooorked OP IMBA
Unbalanced.
Imbalanced mod not worth the time
Yeah, WC3 needs to be limited to 100 supply. They are just to strong per unit
That’s where balancing changes will come in. Also bear in mind we’ve only seen games where wc3 won so far. Apparently there’s many, many games where wc3 loses to a simple basic timing attack.
@@FenekkuKitsuneforcing sc2 factions to either early cheese or get clapped later - looks like a balance issue to me.
@@r.d.6290 Hence "That's where balancing changes will come in"...........
You can't expect something like this to be balanced within a week or two.
Warcraft unit are so normal it is just starcraft 2 units are so weak
not really, WC3 Priest only heal a bit of hp per/sec in the original game but here we can see them healing human units to full heal almost instantly. The mod is still imbalance in many ways tbh
@@ruwibiduya2720Balancing changes will come, but supposedly wc3 actually has a terrible win rate atm. Tends to lose to a basic timing attack.
Warcraft units mostly have bigger health compared than Starcraft.
And also the armor system are quite different (I think... 'cause I never played the mod)
Starcraft armor system are:
damage - armor value = damage taken
While Warcraft are
damage - armor type - armor reduction = damage taken
@@FenekkuKitsune wc3 winrate is more of a player's mastery of the game units/structure, right now most players that played the mod aren't that good at wc3 tbh.
like for example WC3 is known for being able to burrow/tower/ziggurat rush quite fast that Sc2's meta wont be able to defend against it with starting units alone tho... towers meta rush will become obsolete as the game become longer.
@@ruwibiduya2720 I'm sure more balancing changes will come though.
too broken
SC2 races cannot win. Mod is hopelessly imbalanced.
wc3 is slightly too strong. They need to either nerf hero units or give sc2 hero units for balance.
this mod is so badly made. warcraft units are all much faster and stronger than they should be. priests healing 25 per cast? wtf, they should be tuned down to match the HP scaling in starcraft. they should heal 5. a level 1 hero should also be much weaker
Wouldn’t say it this harshly but agree a priest just tanked a clossus shooting at it, and only stuff died in the run by really when the disruptors insta killed. Also no clue what one could do against a hero rush, and the knights seem just like way better ultralights and inner fire with +3 armor is just broken in starcraft
The worst protos I ever seen
At this point I am certain you are doing this on purpose with the thumbnail. You don't need a misleading thumbnail featuring the a tile like WARCRAFT 3 VS STARCRAFT 2 When the image is clearly a starcraft 1 Nexus against the warcraft base. Cmon man, it is not that hard to spot the difference I should think.
Imbalanced wc3 hp and damage, spells and heroes? really?
We’re only seeing games where wc3 wins. There’s many, many games of the wc3 player losing to a basic timing attack, but we don’t see those ‘cause they’d be boring.
It’s not as imba as you think
20:40 no... but i played warcraft 3 for 10 years before ©
5:00 wait, a robot with shields taking damage to some guy with a sword? Like an Abrams being taken down by Roman soldiers.
Video game logic
11:49 just stopped watching after that...