I already updated the calculator to show "Years to break even" when the EV cost more then the ICE vehicle. Add additional suggestions below. Thanks! Find all related materials on my website here: projectswithdave.com/free-ev-vs-gas-calculator/ FREE - EV vs GAS cost comparison calculator: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZhV46SSkQSIA_LuiJYYbYMRMAMz8b6s8/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117695764163777825762&rtpof=true&sd=true See more projects and get my FREE Solar Financial Calculator on my website ProjectsWithDave.com: projectswithdave.com/
here it is the opposite regarding insurance: EVs are cheaper cause the likelihood of causing a crash is significant lower for EV drivers which are driving far more efficient and looking ahead. What is the most efficient driving method ? Simply sailing if you come to a crossing and not to use regenerativ breaking or 1 pedal drive cause the recuperation means a loss of 33%. Just let the car roll to come to a full stop or use the brakes only on the last 15 km/h. Here EV insurances are about 60% for example in the GOLF segment comparing a similiar powered GOLF VII with the e-GOLF. We also get a CO2 emission certificate which we then can sell each year which is a kind of compensation cause the average EV energy consumption and its CO2 footprint will be compared with the CO2 footprint of an average ICE car. The difference is the value of the CO2 emission per EV issued every year. Those certificates are bought by all the oil sellers who need to have the right amount of rights as compensation. So we got roughly 230€ per year as compensation when selling in the past 3 years. Maintenance is a lot lower, tire wear should be higher due to higher weight by average but the drivers search for efficiency is lowering the tyre wear even more than the weight is increasing it. Good tyres last longer based on a Mercedes comparison between ICE and EV over 100.000 km.
For most places in the US, car insurance is dependent on both the driver and the vehicle. That's why I recommended getting an insurance quote and using that number in the calculator.
@@ProjectsWithDave I noticed that gray is spelled wrong in your formula, when the spreadsheet outputs "gray area". Not sure it this was intentional to compromise on both "gray" and "grey", or if it was just an oversight.
My wife drives a 2015 Toyota Sienna. I drive Hyundai Ioniq 5 2022. We drive about the same miles: work, recreation, etc. She pays $160 to $180/month. My home EV charger software pulls in FPL (utility) per kWh power and calculates the cost of electricity. EV cost is $18/month. Maintenance? I almost miss doing oil changes. Living in hurricane territory, it is good to have a home generator that can also charge your EV. Gas fuel becomes a problem if power is out a week or more after a hurricane. The generator is duel fuel gas/propane. 8.4 kw solar installed as well, which also charges EV routinely. Proof of concept in video is excellent.
I wonder if a small 1-2 ground mounted solar array would work well for powering the vehicle through extended outages? An efficient EV should be able to get about 20 miles per day off that.
I'd like to see a cost of ownership comparison between your two vehicles. I think the Sienna's residual value will tip the cost of ownership meter away from the full EV.
Good Idea with the calculator! I did the math comparing my and my parents car a bit ago. Mine a Chevy Bolt EV and theirs a Chevy Cruise Hatchback (same model year 2017): I was saving just about 1000USD a year and I've already made up the initial price difference and into the pure savings! (And that's without solar...) I can understand how you might think it would be an inconvenience to have an EV if your basing your experience off an old Leaf: I had one. It's range wasn't doing it with job switch, but having a longer range one for a while now, it's a huge convenience! Always leaving home with plenty of range, never having to worry about stopping for gas (haven't been late anywhere since switching either), less monkey business with oil changes etc... I drive a fair amount with that job and it's saving me a lot of time, worry, and money. Anyway you wanted my experience and there it is, Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to post your info! I've had the opportunity to experience EV's with decent range, I still found myself having to constantly think about how much available range I had left. Maybe that would change after some longer term experience.
Everyone needs to be comfortable with their car. We have a Nissan Leaf and have pulled in to my parents or in-laws (who both have a 240v plugs we can use). We have pulled in comfortable with 1 or 2% remaining. My sister has a Model 3 Tesla with better range and better charging, she still is uncomfortable with the car getting below 50% on a long trip. Be comfortable but I love arriving on an empty tank and having it full in the morning.
I'm not laughing at you Dave! As a mechanical engineer myself, I really appreciate your analytic approach. As we watched your video, I explained to my son that what you showed on your calculator, and how you explained it, is how engineer's roll! I think you provide a great example of how good decisions are made. I have a nearly identical spreadsheet for my solar and EV decisions! It would be interesting for you to combine your solar and EV calculators to build a complete ROI model for how an EV can help provide ROI on a DIY solar installation. We did a DIY ground mount similar to yours (we did 14.6kW net metered). My wife and I now commute with Chevy Bolt EUV's, and I often describe it as the EV's paying the solar panels for fuel. With 2 EV's, the amount of gasoline cost avoidance greatly improves the ROI on the solar investment. With reasonable driving habits, we haven't seen an issue with excessive tire wear. The zero-maintenance aspects have been time and money savers. The driving experience is excellent. Plus we underestimated the satisfaction of solar-powered commuting and never pumping gas!
Love the calc. I have a BMW ix. Pricey so won’t fare well in the calculator but in Canada gas is closer to $6/gallon and electricity where I am is 11c/kwh. So our savings on gas has been massive. More than the difference in the car payment with our Toyota Highlander - we drive our second gas car so much less now as well. I have over 37000miles with original tires and have spent $0 on maintenance. No brakes, no air filter. I also calculated the amount of time I am saving by charging at home - about 50min a month. I road trip occasionally including annual trip to FLA and it still works out in my favour in terms of time spent ‘refuelling’.
Great video. I am considering switching to a EV. You pointed out a couple of things, I didn’t think of. Anyone thinking about switching. Needs to watch this video. It was simple and you did not talk over my head. Thanks for making the free calculator.
One quick point - TIRES. On my 69 Camaro (350 LT1) I went through a set of mid-quality bias plies in 9,000 miles. I went back to the tire store and they just laughed. AND LAUGHED. There is a company in the UK who uses EVs for their repair fleet - THEY get 40 - 50 K miles (YES, the UK uses miles) out of a set of tires. (EDIT: Google CLEEVELY) So why the disparity, and why do people believe EVs do terrible with tires. Well, that is the point of the first part of the comment. The cheapest Tesla can ABSOLUTELY DUST that 69 Camaro! So ... I would suggest that how long your tires last depends a LOT on how heavy your foot is!
100% percent correct. That has been our experience. It's all about how you drive. All that FUD about EV tires is the same type of FUD about solar from Luddites. Those people have never been in an EV, nevermind owning one.
Yes, your driving characteristic is going to be the biggest factor, but keep in mind as illustrated by @capnkirk5528, if the torque is available, it's hard not to use it. 😂
Yeah, EV is in general have so much power off the line people drive them aggressively and wear the tires out quickly. It has nothing to do with the vehicle itself.
@@ProjectsWithDave I recommend setting the accelerator to "chill mode", which avoids using the excess torque, and keeps the traction force gentle, to improve tire life. EV motors are deliberately built with more torque than they expect you to use, since a motor oversized on torque has an efficiency advantage. Unlike an engine, where more-than-necessary torque, makes it less efficient.
Great in depth info and spreadsheet! The takeaway should be that you CAN charge an ev from a generator in an emergency but you wouldn't normally do that, just like you wouldn't normally power your house from a generator. We have the car with a built in generator, a 2014 BMW i3 rex, now with 120k miles on it. With the 70k miles we have put on it, the savings have covered the purchase price and it costs about 1 cent per mile based on the power from our home solar that I installed!
Tires is always an interesting inclusion in EV extra costs. Do people go through them more? Yes. Why? Because people don’t adjust driving style to the new power train. Instant torque is going to mess with tires no doubt, but only if you drive with a lead foot.
Modern cars are so good at going where you point them most people give no consideration to physics while driving anymore until they get into racing scenarios. Yes, on average a heavier car carrying the same speed around a corner will wear the tires proportionally more. No, it's not that bad unless you're driving aggressively enough that you're probably not surprised.
IMO less about torque and a pedal problem, More the weight/thinner width tires for a car comparable 10% more weight on 5% more tire compounds fast. But if you take into consideration of just oil changes it basically offsets that cost, So you still save on "gas" or $dollar per mile traveled. What I don't see enough people talking about saving on is brake's. 6yrs and almost 250K miles not once needed brakes, Yes in part because they are bigger and better but mostly because I hardly use them lol. Most people that get's changed every 40-60K miles.
@@dizzlethe7346 using less brakes is great and one of the reasons I'd like to get my wife into an EV or hybrid so she could stop warping rotors, but if you're nice on brakes and change them yourself you can get the cost down to $100 every 70k to 80k miles, so the cost savings is only there if you pay someone to replace your pads and rotors.
Great job Dave! I love the calculator. Real-world efficiency is important to understand including the losses going into the car - well done pointing that out. I'm personally saving quite a bit by commuting with my EV vs. the gas car. And with solar power sufficient to charge the car it's almost a no-brainer! This calculator will help me better explain it to the wife (and friends)! Thanks!
Great article Dave! One of the home energy/electric vehicle questions I muse about is philosophical. What is the value of ANY kind of power during emergency situations? It's an arbitrary metric that I grapple with. During the rare times my local electric grid has gone down; When my little solar power system keeps home power "up".. it promotes a deep sense of appreciation that is difficult to describe or put a number to.
Superb work as always, Dave. I've had a Chevy Volt (2 different model years) since 2014. My current is a 2017. It is a plug-in-hybrid, so a bit different on all these calculations. I like the whole idea of a plug-in-hybrid simply because I can use gas any time I actually need to. However, with my typical commute, I fill up my gas tank roughly once every 9-10 months (just over 8 gallons at Seattle's ridiculous $4.95/gal). According to my Volt, about 92-93% of my miles have been electric alone. I have about 82,000 miles on my current Volt. I've had to replace my tires due to wear only once so far. Two oil changes so far. That's it. Things I like very much about my Volt are how smooth the power/acceleration is and how quiet it is. I absolutely love it and will probably drive it into the ground (I'm hoping for, oh, 150k miles). Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the calculation sheet. Because of rapid EV evolution and depreciation changes, I don't look at +10- year TCO predictions, but running year's CO predictions. I had to add to my copy the maintenance as it changes each year. That has an effect on a good break even prediction, and it changes based on experience.Maintenance costs are determined by time (brake fluid) , miles driven (eg tires, oil changes, brake pads) and total mileage (eg 100K ICE service) There are big jumps at 30, 60 and 100K miles and whenever the warranties expire. Routine maintenance EV parts are often higher than for ICE, particularly those related to vehicle weight. Unique vehicles like the Cybertruck many have very unique consumable parts.
Love the calculator - very nice analysis. I'm driving a Toyota RAV4 Prime - plug-in hybrid. I knew when I bought it the benefit was marginal at best. With gas now at $4/gal and my grid electric at $0.16/kWh, driving about 11,000 miles/year, I am slightly negative on operating costs vs. ICE only. I've charged at some public charging stations, which bill me for kWh consumed, and compared to what the car receives and it is just about the 85% efficiency you cite. Still - my personal use case is a perfect match. Most of my driving is local and the ICE never needs to run, but when I take a road trip, I'm on gasoline with all the convenience of easy and fast fill ups. Tire wear is "normal" since I'm not carrying 3,000 lbs. of batteries to go 2 miles to the grocery store. I'm also not putting short-trip wear on the ICE, limiting its use to longer highway trips. After 2.5 years, aside from a few oil changes, I've had zero maintenance. Although Illinois charges a higher registration fee for EV's, I'm classified as a conventional fuel vehicle, so no registration premium. Similarly for my insurance cost. In 2021, I still qualified for the EV tax credit, so the premium price was significantly discounted.
Thanks for your detailed information! I think the plug-in-hybrid is the best of both worlds, the problem is they tend to be pretty expensive since they carry two full powertrains.
For $35k you can get a brand new Tesla Model 3... could be even cheaper. For $25k you can get your dealer to sell you a fabulous Ford Focus with 1.0 engine! These days new vehicle prices between EVs and ICEs (for the same class and specs) are nearly the same. Also in Europe we pay $1.7/L ($6.44/gal) for gasoline and our electricity is $0.08-$0.16/kWh, depending on the time of day... But some countries can pay up to $0.30/kWh if they are high on coal. That amounts to $2,735 in yearly savings. Without even considering that you're also saving yourself and family from the toxic exhaust gasses. Cost of ownership? - Go EV!
Driving EVs for 10 years now, never got stranded, driving through Europe, long distance is so easy. Drove more than 300k km. Cheaper than a gas car, better. Got PV on the roof and 75% of all my energy needs are made at home for house, heatpump and EV.,Greetings from 53°N, PV works even that far north.
@@ProjectsWithDave PV generates 75% of all my energy. There are multiple options, I chose an island system which is independent from the grid. That was due to the tax system our government had 10 years ago, they taxed own PV. Usually you would build a grid parallel system, anyway you use your own PV and only buy the rest from the grid. The system paid off in 7 years (including battery, but all self built, today its 34kW PV and 50kWh usable battery, so no small AAA toy). The hardware is easy, very cheap today (11cents per Watt PV) the problems are with the regulators and government, they dont want that. Anybody living south of my 53°N location could do 100% of all energy all year round without ever buying a single electron from a power plant. Renewable energy ist cheap. Yesterday and today are sunny days here in Germany, grid electricity is -6 cents or 0 cents at the energy stock exchange! So energy is indeed free. But grid fees and taxes are 18cents/kWh over here, thanks government. Usually we pay 36cent/kWh, Euro cents, add 10% for USD.
Typically in the EU and Scandanavia, etc. the pump price of petrol is actually twice the price of the fuel itself. There can be a 100% surcharge for taxes built into what you pay. This was an intentional choice after WW2 to raise money to build the fine new rail systems that were needed, and other projects. In the US the combined taxes may be 20%, mainly road taxes that are supposed to maintain the roads. That's very different from EVs, since there are no road taxes, transportation funding, etc. on your electric bill for the EV. There have already been proposals to add a $250 annual registration fee for EVs, or more complex schemes, to force EVs to replace the tax money that is all paid by gasoline users.
A very interesting calculator but one line you forgot is car deprecation.EV are improving every year in battery capacity, charging speed and new pricing going down, bringing down their used price way faster than the ICE cars, no one would buy a 10/12 years old EV were the batteries replacement cost is way above the car value but a 15 yo ICE car as still some can still keeping you on the road for a few more years.
Yes, that's hard to work into the calculation. I suggest you take the time period you are expecting to keep the vehicles and estimate the difference in depreciation between the two. Then add that delta in the "misc" line.
Depreciation is the biggest cost of car ownership and is not considered in the calculator. EV owners have been impacted even more than gas car owners in the last year. Lest anyone be purely driven by numbers you also don't account for less tangible things like a better driving experience, time saved by charging at home, and time saved getting oil changes, etc.
EVs were only impacted more because manufacturer(s) brought the prices they were charging down all at once. It’s not something that’s likely to happen again.
I think that it’s pretty likely that new EV prices will continue to come down. Tesla still has margins far above traditional manufacturers. There’s also a major depreciation spike as EVs get around 8 yrs or 100k miles and there’s fear of a very costly pack replacement. Don’t get me wrong, I own an EV and I love it, but I don’t think its total cost of ownership over the 4-5 years I’ll probably keep it is going to be lower than ICE.
This is a great argument for buying a used, but not very old EV - it’s great value. Especially considering the other tech recent EVs come with (safety systems, infotainment, etc).
My personal experience after three years of EV ownership, our only car, is yes unquestionably EV do save money. We average approx 15k miles annually and I save some £200 a month on fuel costs. We principally charge at home on an off peak tariff at 9p per kw/hour and we average about 4.4 miles per kw/hr so fuel costs about 2p per mile. Servicing is half the price of my last ICE car and I've not noticed any difference in tyre wear EV/ICE. New EV tyres are of an equivalent price to quality ICE tyres. Bring the savings on.
It's how you drive any car had a mustang 30,000 miles per set, model 3 35,000 miles per set now I changed my driving habits lite on throttle and lite on deceleration I could tell the difference in tire wear.
agree with you that I hate the MPGe figure. I understand why EPA choose it.. to keep the window sticker in a unit that MOSTLY is comparable .. but not exactly. That said I still prefer mi/kWh over (k)Wh/mi. It is far easier to think in that terms, and is already the same as mpg.
I agree that metric is the most comparable to what we are already used to. My problem is there are too many varying ways to report the metric. It's confusing for people.
I have a bicycle I can ride for basically free, does that mean the bicycle is a better transport than my ICE car? You see, things have applications. Try collecting a few cases of hand towels on a bicycle when its raining and you need to travel 20 miles with them. A combination of convenience and costs are decider points not just each on its own.
HI Dave, My only concern is the the everyone consider the price of electricity as the Supply service. No one talks about the Delivery charges. Usually in my case event hough the Supply Service is 14 cents an KWH but but the Delivery charge is ~16 cents an KWH. So wouldn't be it wise to add Supply service and Delivery Charge to calculate actual cost of energy put in EV to calculate average price/miles driven? Hoping to hear your thoughts.
Yes, I suppose I should have commented on that. I assumed you would including delivery, tax, etc. in the cost/kWh you use in the calculation. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm in these numbers all the time and forget that what is obvious to me may not be to everyone else. Every bill is a bit different, mine even has a fuel surcharge cost/kWh, you have to add it all together. Thanks!
A huge pet peeve of mine as well!!! I see crazy low electrical numbers posted all the time, then realize folks are only looking at a fraction of the total cost of electricity!
Also, in COLORADO it has been possible (several times) to get a Base Model 3 for less than $25K before taxes and transportation. So a $10K premium seems a little high? (Maybe not in an anti-EV place like Ohio).
Same in NJ. 26K and NO tax on an EV purchase in NJ for a brand new Model 3 just this past year. And the base Model Y is now down to $35,490 after the federal rebate and no tax.
Sorry, the numbers in the spreadsheet were just for illustration. The point is to put your actual numbers in to calculate your actual cost benefit result.
@@ProjectsWithDave The Ford Lightning is one such example. If you need home power backup during an extended outage, you can either charge it at work, or charge it at a public charging station, and then bring home a charged battery to support your home appliances. This assumes the power outage is localized to your home, and you have nearby sources of working power. It can support both apartments at 120/208V and it can support free-standing homes at 120/240V. It even tells you how much power on the black phase and red phase you are using. Not exactly the use-case I could see myself using. Usually the most economical and convenient charging you get for an EV, is when you have a home charger that you run in the middle of the night, and charge with off-peak rates (if applicable).
This is what I care about when it comes to my Tesla. I don’t have to go to the gas station. I don’t have to change my oil. I’ve always got enough energy.
Yes, but you have to consider time of use. If you have monthly net metering, and no time of use charges, you could easily do that. If not, you would need a very large battery that would probably negate the value of the whole activity.
17:15 this isn’t really true, we’ve a model 3 and have had the same tires for over 40K miles (the winter tires have about 20K miles) and they are still going strong. And no we are no light drivers, we use every bit of hp and torque the car has 😅
Thanks Dave for all the good work you do. Question, I live off grid on a 30 kw solar system and charge my Ford Lightening with a Level 2 charger. Tons of power but sometimes over work my inverters with charging and house load. In theory can I direct DC charge from solar if I string my panels to a voltage the truck accepts? Do you know the acceptable voltage for the F150? Thanks again.
I'm not sure what the F150 voltage is, but it is probably around 400VDC. To my knowledge there is no home setup at this point for DC charging. But hopefully one comes soon. What do you mean by over working your inverters? What brand are they? Your inverter should be able to run continuously at full load with no issues.
My guess with the leaf underperforming on range is the range calculator wasn't accounting for the low ambient temperature. Cold batteries perform worse, and the older BMS aren't good at calculating that.
The gas generators I have seen that are used for RVs, have the ground neutral bond plug connected to a 120 outlet. This leaves the 30 amp plug available to connect to the RV. So I’m wondering, do you use the ground neutral bond plug on the 120 outlet when you’re using the 30 amp plug for charging an EV?
Yes. The only thing the bonding plug is doing, is tying the neutral wire to the generator frame. Even if breaker to the outlet is switched off, the neutral and ground are still connected. Only the hot is switched on and off.
So the leaf has a few things working against it to test. The SOC is non linear. The early car could have a 13.75a on board charge 3.3kw or the big charger is the 27.5a. 6.6kw Also the charger Efficiency is very poor compared to something like a Tesla. A tesla however has more overhead with electronics so higher power is better for efficiency. For a leaf the best way to see power input to the battery is leaf spy phone app. Best case efficiency at 240v I’ve measured 86% wall to battery efficiency. Same test in a tesla is 94%. At lower amperage’s and voltages the efficiency is worse.
@MrTheexplorer128 Thanks for the details on the leaf. I'm sure I'll try this again with a more modern EV. The Rivian was loosing power in my first test because of the battery warmer. I guess every vehicle will be different in some way.
In my case cost savings were a secondary reason to purchase an electric vehicle. So I didn’t need to know the precise pay back time. As for emergency charging, I have found it pretty simple to operate the EV such that is highly unlikely need one. If the worst case scenario does happen I’ll call a tow truck.
@@ProjectsWithDave And your friend might also not be available in such a situation. I really don't see this being any different than driving a gasoline car. Actually running yourself dry is such a rare thing to have happen, relying on outside help isn't really that big of a problem. Call roadside assistance or AAA or whatever your auto insurance gives you, and a truck comes by with a big generator to give you enough charge to make it home or to a nearby charger. Or even go knocking on businesses or doors looking for a plug you can tap into. No tow truck necessary. Running out of gas is really no different. People don't go around carrying gas cans in their trunk just waiting for that rare emergency to happen. The only time you see that is on actual work trucks. -Matt
Just watched this video… Our daughter recently visited, driving her Tesla Model Y from Miami to northern Wisconsin. I asked her how much the charging stations cost her. Total distance was 1791 miles and her receipts added up to about $220. I calculated that our Traverse at 29 mpg and an average of $3.50/gal would cost about $216 in fuel. The other significant thing from my point of view was the charging time. She estimates a 12 hr trip usually takes 16 hours. I think I’ll stick with gas powered vehicles for now! Thanks for an informative video!
Thanks for posting data from your actual experience. I also calculated that the cost/mile when using public charging stations is generally greater than the cost of gas. If you can't charge at home it would be very difficult to justify an electric vehicle as a way to save money.
For a Tesla, the loss is closer to 6% for home charging at 240V 32A and about 8% at 48A. The Nissan Leaf is not a great example of modern EV tech. Ideally, we could use the DC current from solar directly to charge the car without inverting it to AC and back to DC, which causes the losses, primarily as heat energy.
You seriously started the video by griping about a fuel funnel the manufacturer provides. Then proceed to casually pull out 7 adapters to plug your appliance in and that goes without notice that the car doesn't even come with the charger it requires. Holy moly people.
I would expect any motor generator to deliver a sine wave. That is the same tech used to create most AC at scale. I would be interested to see what the actual wave form is, and why the Leaf will not use it. It is possible that the frequency needs to be tightly regulated. My backup generator will lag behind 60Hz near full load, but the loads I have are tolerant of that deviation.
I drive a 2023 Nissan Leaf since the november 2023. I live in germany and in a city that offers charging cost per charge instead of per kwh. If looking at fuel/electricity cost alone my ev is way cheaper. Befor this car i drove a 2002 mercedes c180 as gasoline and had to pay an average of 110€ every 2 weeks. Since i own the leaf i've only paid 450€ over all for charging (wich includes a lot of higher priced highway chargerates). Maintenace cost is around the same for me (i bought the maintenance package whith the car wich makes it a bit cheaper over all). As far as my experience goes: pros: quieter while driving, more costefficient, cheaper tax (first few years non at all, after that it's reduced) Cons: charging infrastructure isn't as good as gasoline, chargingtime when ac charging (specific to the nissan leaf since it can only charge with 6kw instead of the standard 22kw), specific to the nissan leaf (up to model year 2023) it uses chademo (dieing standard wich is rare to find at chargingstations) instead of ccs Things people see as bad wich in practice isn't noticable: long range travel. I often hear that people don't want to drive an ev because it takes to long to charge when traveling long distance. In my experience i make a toilet/lunch break anyways regardless of if it's an ev or not wich usually takes around 30 minutes. In 30 minutes my car charges from 20% to 80% with quick charge so i use the break to charge my car.
kWh price here is average about 0.25 euro / kWh: 0.18 euro per kWh of taxes and 0.08 euro per kWh. However, we have next day pricing. In the summer the real price can be negative because there is too much solar and it might be so negative that it will be even lower than the tax you still have to pay. In very windy days, the electricity price is almost 0, but the taxes stay the same. gasoline prices average between 2.13 euro to 1.91 euro per liter, so roughly $10 per gallon. On dedicated fast charging places, the price however is more towards 0.65...0.90 euro per kWh. It all depends on speed. Home charging is the most cheap, but you can't charge a tesla from 0 to 100% in a reasonable time if you do 500km/day, or you need to request a lot of power from the grid.
People all too often, claim that electric isn't as convenient as gas. How so? You have an outlet at home, it can charge over night. You leave with a full charge every morning. With gas, you have to go somewhere to get it. I really like the idea of plugging in, when I get home. I say that, because I CAN charge at home. If you live in an apartment complex, you may not be able to charge at home. You're better off with gasoline, because public charging stations cost a lot more per kWh, than home electricity. At that point, because of the time it takes to charge a battery, gas is much more convenient. You can take on 400 miles of range in just a few minutes, fueling up. With electric, you're there for ~45 minutes, to acquire 200-250 miles of range, under ideal conditions.
@@ProjectsWithDave My recommendation is to RENT the EV you're interested in for at least 1 week. Make sure it's going to work for you, before you make a $50,000 mistake! I rented a 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV for a week, and it worked out better than expected. My next car WILL be an EV.
Interestingly my (UK Economy7) electricity tariff is priced according to the time of use. It's exactly one third of the daytime rate to use power from 2330 to 0630 overnight. This offers benefits for overnight EV recharging. However the government now is looking at recovering the tax that was being paid on road fuel purchases which could drive EVs back into the shade again. I'm considering a home battery so that I can buy electricity at the cheap rate but use it at peak time. Solar to charge an EV sounds like a good plan.
Inconvenience of having an EV? Basically a full tank of gas every morning? Not having to warm up the car every morning in the winter? Not having to do oil changes and other internal combustion engine maintenance? Traveling long distances and having to supercharge is the only inconvenience I can think of.
Well, ironically, my struck stopped working in the middle of a project this week because the starter failed and I had to replace it in the rain. In all fairness the vehicle is more than 20 years old and has over 130k miles on it with very few issues. I don't know what electrical issues I would have over that time period, but I wouldn't be replacing a starter. : )
How are you determining the Cost of Electricity? I look at the bottom line and not what’s stated on the bill. I divide the total bill by the KWh used. That’s the actual cost.
In my case there is a base fee for having service and then a cost/kWh in addition to that. If you lump in the base fee as part of the total cost/kWh you will get a different cost every month. So I would subtract the base fee and then divide the rest of the bill by the total kWh consumed.
Hello Dave, I like your numbers but I would also add your solar cost ROI. I have done my own numbers and my Tesla has lowered my solar cost ROI from seven years to just three years. It took me a while to get used to my Tesla after driving Honda Accords for three decades and I am not going back. One cannot really go wrong setting up solar and switching to EV (if paying Federal taxes) with 30% discount and $7500 on EV. It feels great having free gas and the average person only drives 50 miles per day which requires not much of a solar setup to re-charge the EV if you do the numbers.
Good question. The price of electricity is more stable and tends to increase over time in a fairly predictable way which is easy to put in to a calculator. My solar cost/benefit calculator includes the change in electricity over time ( projectswithdave.com ). Gas on the other hand goes up and down dramatically, and in fact, if electric cars start to become more popular the demand for gas will drop and the price will continue to fall. So, I felt the best thing to do was allow you to enter the average rate for the two energy sources you expect to see over the time period you are judging. Not perfect, but seemed like the best course of action for the situation. Thanks!
My only power option is solar electricity is 1.5 miles away. So calculator is worthless to me. However charging a electric vehicle is my next upgrade. Buying more inverters as we speak
One thing I would do is buy a OBS II scanner so you can actually get the watt-hours into and out of the battery from the vehicle's computer. You can't really use the charge percentage on the display for such tiny amounts of energy... it won't be even remotely accurate. +/- 50%. The vehicle computer keeps track of it at a much finer resolution. Beyond that, remember that efficiency is a function of voltage. Charging with 240VAC is far more efficient than charging at 120VAC, and weather conditions non-withstanding the vehicle having to heat the battery is not something it would have to do 365 days a year (but that works better with 240VAC too, for sure). In anycase, considering how rare running out of gas (or charge) is, you can always just call roadside assistance / AAA / whatever comes with your car insurance and a truck will come with a big generator and give you 30-40 miles of range to get to a real charger or home. Not much different than if you ran out of gas and had to make a call. In real life, EV range anxiety lasts less a week, then you realize that it's a non-issue and get on with your life. -Matt
Amazing calculator great job lol but you forgot to subtract the inflation rate off the cash just kidding Dave but future Dave told me to remind you. haha
Thanks for getting back to me on future Dave's reminder. 😂 I will have to think about how to best capture depreciation. That's a difficult metric to incorporate.
FYI, cars have 2 ways of calculating range. The first being based off of real world data; this one is not the default that is shown for most cars and some won't even calculate it. The second is off of the EPA rated value on the sticker which is often very ... generous. The Leaf you were testing with almost certainly showed this second value.
Yes, the list is EPA values and they tend to be a "best case" number. To compensate you can reduce the efficiency percentage from 85% to 80% for instance.
On the contrary, the range shown by the LEAF dash is it's guess based off recent usage, generally referred to as a GOM or guess-o-meter because it does a particularly poor job of guessing range for a variety of reasons. Dave would be much better served by using the SOC gauge if this car has one, but even that isn't terribly accurate, especially on a worn battery like he's using. You can see at the 5 minute mark this battery only has 9 of 12 health bars, which is the same as my LEAF. That's going to be between 68% and 78% of the original battery capacity.
3,75$ a gallon ? I bet all the truck sales would be over if you have to pay 7,50$ That is why the american energy consumptin per capita is the by far highest among the industrial nations and the whole economy is not efficient. You would never see the heavy trucks due to its high price of energy and social pressure from everyone if you drive a truck without using it as a truck like farmers do. Therefore sales are low and environmentalist will scratch the car in the city to show you a red flag. We pay about 0,30 € or 0,33 $ per kWh and get 0,08€ per kWh we feed from our solar power system into the grid. Also the days of oil heating systems in houses are counted too: forbidden from 2045 onwards
Most European roads are a lot narrower as well so big vehicles don't make a lot of sense. If you drive 10,000 mi per year and only get 15 miles per gallon... Which is about What you can expect from a Ford super duty with a large V8... You're using about 660 gallons per year. Even at $10 a gallon, You just talking about a couple thousand dollars. When the truck costs $100,000, fuel cost isn't that big of a deal for most people that are buying them. That said, personally, we have a larger SUV that averages 20 mph and I rent a trailer when I need to haul things. It makes more sense financially. I'm certainly not anti EV or solar tho. I would require bi-directional charging to supplement solar battery backup. Still planning on installing a large solar system here in Ohio, despite 11 cent power kWh electricity and limited solar hours.
One gallon of gasoline at a density of 2.85769 kg contains 0.3715 kg of hydrogen, so 11.80 ÷ 0.88 ÷ 0.3715 = 36.09 miles per kg of hydrogen. Don,t forget more than half the energy in the gasoline is needed to run your generator.
Nissan Leaf has battery conditioning? You jumped from a car that has battery conditioning to a car that does not, never testing whether it is possible to charge from generator in cold (or hot)
Some EVs will allow you to pull power from your battery. For example, my Hyundai Ioniq 5 has 74 kWh of "usable" battery potential. I can use that power at a maximum of 1.5 kw. Yet another backup power source in an emergency.
I think that is a feature that eventually all EVs will have. I know the Ford Lightning is set up to be a whole home backup. It only makes sense to be able to use that huge battery for other purposes. I discuss the Ford Lightning some in this video: ruclips.net/video/U2ilH8yOi7A/видео.html
Nice calculator. However, at this price range, EVs get a tax credit which reduces the breakeven period drastically. It is also common with expensive electricity rates to have solar, my mom's properties in california all have solar for about ten years. EVs also have some conveniences that is hard to put in numbers. I'm just wary of some EVs that still use pouch batteries which are not as robust as prismatic or cyclindrical cells. To be fair, most brands provide 10 yr EV battery warranty but...but warrant claims on battery can be hassle.
@@ProjectsWithDave Also Use my solar system batteries during the 28.8 time and most of the 12.2 time , works great in the summer. In winter not so much, but do load shifting battery charging at 2.8 to using at 28.8 time greatly reduces the 28.8 usage. Just added some vertical panels to get more winter low sun solar, will see the effect this coming winter.
I've seen new brand name tires, equipped on new cars, go bald at 16,000 gentle miles. The same tire company selling retail consumer tires can get 45,000 miles on the same cars. Nothing is as simple as it seems.
Dave, with the amount of solar that you have, an EV is an absolute no brainer for you. Many now come with vehicle to home or vehicle to grid so you use them as another backup battery for you home. Imagine pumping all that extra solar into your EV which you can use to drive it or even backup your house in a pinch on top of your home backup batteries. Add the cost of your gas on ICE to you charging your EV for free from your solar and then compare that for us. That would be a fantastic video. As for a backup for your EV if you run out, there are portable batteries with wheels you can take with you if someone calls you in a pinch. As for the tires comment, I can tell you that's total, 100% FUD. Just read all the comments on other videos abour solar being a total ripoff, and you get the idea of the same type of Luddites making those comments. Ours last just as long as any our previous ICE vehicles. What happens with tires on some EV's, is not the EV but the driver. Remember what happened with the tires on your Camaro or Mustang (or whatever hot rod you had) when you were very young and wore them out before you knew it? It's the exact the same with EV's. Since they have so much more power and torque, drivers (especially young ones) keep showing off their 0-60 acceleration and the such. THAT'S what wears out the tires. If you drive normally most of the time, they last the same as ICE. With an EV (whether new or used), you will greatly increase the amount of videos that you can make and a provide a more varied type of content for your channel to increase your viewership. Some of those Ford Lightings coming off fleet leases are some you might want to take a look at for where you live. But with the vast amout of EV choices now, you can go with whatever you want. Just my two cents.
Thanks for the extensive feedback! I agree the majority of additional tire wear comes from the driving profile. If you drive very conservatively (which is hard to do with the extra available torque) you should get much closer to ICE performance. However, the vehicles are still much heaver so they will always be some amount behind a comparable ICE vehicle. I have found even with ICE vehicle the tire life can be dramatically affected by type and brand of tire purchased. It's very hard to do a true apples to apples comparison for this condition. You're right, with my solar power, the cost to run one is very low. The one issue I have is finding a good used EV that has more than a 60mi range. My whole life I have purchased used vehicles, when I was younger they usually didn't run when purchased. For my first car I had to replace the engine to get it running. Even today, my truck has 130k miles and I do all the maintenance myself so the cost of ownership is very low. The point is the cost of getting into an EV is pretty high in comparison making the payback very long.
@@ProjectsWithDave I got a 2017 Bolt in 2019, it's been awesome so far here in Colorado. I put some CrossClimate2's on it at the same time my mom put some on her Sorento, neither of us have had to change them yet after ~15k miles. It's a 3600lb Bolt compared to a 3900lb gigantic SUV. The Bolt is more torque-y and I'm a more aggressive driver, yet still they seem to be lasting fine. Plus they're winter tires that we never bother taking off, it can snow any month in CO so it's not really worth swapping tires all the time. It's a fun little car, quicker than almost any gas car on the road. Can hold 4 adults. Can hold a few 2x4s but not a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Thinking about getting a tow hitch installed so I can trailer bigger stuff like that. I've seen others do it. As long as the lumber yard isn't >75mi away it's still going to be in range even with a trailer. With the good tires it's safer than my old Subarus were in the snow. Downright boring almost since it just goes where you point it. No AWD/4WD so no donuts or crab driving through the snow :( In good weather I can make it Denver to Pueblo and back without stopping. That's 240 miles of >70mph range through the mountains. In the city I can get almost 6mi/kWh if I try. I average 4.5. When it's below zero F that range gets cut by almost 40%, but it's still enough to make it to Denver if there was an emergency. Plus there's public charging all over CO. Just at freezing the range is still down 25%. "Beverly" does like the heat and does not like the cold. Neither did my 'Roos though, had to let them idle for 10m till they warmed up enough to drive properly when it was below freezing. My first trip was up to Grand Lake the weekend I bought it. It is amazing on those switchbacks and it only cost a dollar per hour to charge it at the yacht club there. I didn't need the charge, basically filled the battery back up on the ride down the mountain. Lots of places have free L2 charging around here, but I almost always charge at home. I got it for $15,000 and could sell it today for $20k, but that's Vocid and inflation shenanigans.
@@ProjectsWithDave This is an interesting video, and I like your premise. It is a really good idea, and I commend you. But most EVs have batteries that range in size from 60KW to around 100KW. The Tesla Model 3 Standard Range RWD with the LFP battery (64.4 KWH) is (probably) the most efficient EV on the planet, excluding a limited number of new exotic models. Depending on the temperature and terrain, you get approximately 4 miles per KWH in real-world conditions. If it is really cold, that range drops down by approximately 25%. With these figures in mind, I have often wondered what a person would do if they were outside of a towing area. In order to get any significant "rescue" mileage, you would probably have to add at least 10 KWH or charge to the vehicle. There are mobile construction generators that are 10 KW, but as you so astutely point out, they probably don't have a perfect sine wave output. What you are looking for is a portable 10KW generator that can actually output 10KW and produce electricity "clean" enough for EVs to accept. These 10KW construction generators are not massive and can be transported in a standard pickup. So, it is possible that there may be a special-use generator that outputs 10KW with an accurate sine wave "purity." I am not sure if these types of generators are even made because it would probably increase their cost significantly. It is quite possible that generator companies that make various generators might see this as an emerging market. It seems to make sense that tow companies would have one of these generators and could connect to the stranded car for 30 - 60 minutes to provide enough range for it to drive to a charging station. At any rate, your subject is interesting and I learned a lot from your video. Good job!
Thanks for your thoughts. I think the market for emergency support for stranded EV's will emerge quickly with "quick charge" solutions. I just don't want to have to depend on that.
I think the EV maintenance is way high. And I think the tyres on EV might wear slightly quicker but it comes down to your driving style. If you drive it like you stole it (and there is a tendency to do that in a Tesla) - 10,000 miles. If you drive it like your gas car - 30,000. I always compare the Model 3 with a hybrid Camry - there's only about 80Kg - 100Kg in the weight and you do less friction braking so I'd expect the same tyres to last a little bit longer on the Camry. But not 10,000 miles versus 40,000. I had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that did 85,000K on the first set and there was still another 10,000 in the rears. That was lugging around a 14kWh battery. Great car by the way. A lot of the reports on tyre wear come from Tesla owners - my Model 3 shipped with Michelin Pilot Sport 4s and that is never going to be a 50,000 mile (80,000K) tyre.
I assume you will adjust the input for your electricity rate to reflect use of public vs private charging or an average of the two. I suppose it is possible to have two separate inputs controlled by the number of miles you expect to charge at each rate, but I think that would add unnecessary complexity for the average user. Thanks for the suggestion!
I guess I don't understand the statement (floating around for quite some time) about electric cars burning through tires faster than gas. I drive a Chevy Volt (plug-in hybrid), and I don't notice a shorter tire life at all. I think no matter what vehicle you drive if you are reasonable on acceleration and deceleration the tires will last a long time. My state (Wisconsin) while promoting go green puts the extra fees on registration I would have to drive over 20,000 miles a year to make up for that alone. The yearly registration fee for a normal car is $85.00, electric or hybrid is $160, hell even my Dodge diesel 12,000 lbs plate is $106.
It is a little overblown, but it’s is a real issue. Weight and power - those are the issue. You drove a Volt, of course you don’t notice this. The problem is EVs that are 2 tons, 3 tons, or more - with 400+ horsepower. Absolute tire shredders. But it’s unfair to compare those to “a normal car” too since those buyers would be buying high-powered SUVs already.
@@FuncleChuck is totally right, the tire comparison should be type for type of car. Tesla sells their cars as commuter cars, but they perform like sports cars and the tires that are recommended for them are sport tires. If you make this comparison it's easy for an aggressive driver to blow through $1000 of tires/year sports car or EV, but I've driven a LEAF (3300lbs, 110hp) for 6 years and gotten about 40k miles out of my LRR Prius tires.
Electric vehicles are charged higher registration fees in many states because they recognize that EV owners are not paying road taxes that are built into fuel prices. Since you are using those roadways, it's fair that you pick up part of the tab.
@@sociopathmercenary I agree with you to a point of paying my fair share of road tax, but because I drive a plug-in hybrid, I am also paying some fuel taxes already for this car. So with the current plate fee, and taxes paid for fuel I am paying more than my share, because I don't put that many miles on in a year anymore. Many more hybrids are much worse off than my situation because they don't get a lot better mileage than their non-hybrid versions.
Thats total FUD by Luddites. Most ICE pickup trucks and full size SUV's weight more than EV's. If you drive them normally, the tires on EV's last the same as ICE.
7:00 The limit on a 30 Amp ckt for continuous use is 80 percent of breaker capacity, or in your case 24 amps... As you said, the problem is, using the adapters you selected, the charger thinks that you are using a 120V supply and limits you to a max of 16 amps. If you used a different adapter configuration you'd be able to get the full 24 amps.
Did you know you could do the entire world a big favor by demonstrating how to charge an EV more quickly than solar panels, but instead using the stored energy in the alernator from a parked non moving ICE vehicle that requires no registration or insurance,
It's Time for you to come out of the Closet and announce you really have a Real Polluting ICE Yugo. It's OK to tell the world you have a Yugo. Now go away...
i was looking for a video like this a few months back. people dont seem to be concerned with generator efficiency but in this case its important. 13.4 mpg haha i dont think ill be charging primarly of a generator any time soon
I agree. I almost fell out of my chair when he said he used a modified sine wave generator and hooked it up to the car. Good way of damaging electronics. I would think the charger would not like that either and not be able to supply DC current to the car
I grew up in Alaska, there are places you would not even be able to call for a tow, let alone expect one to show up. Maybe my definition of emergency is fairly broad.
Thanks - Very honest calculator. Price of gas is what it is but half of it can often be taxes. Petro fuels are hands down SHOULD be a cheaper source of fuel on a raw lab bench level. My proof to anyone is that any home - even regular homes covered in solar are still heating their homes with nat gas. If not their doing geo thermal or in very comfy climates 😊 It is all the human non-technical elements of climate valuations, taxes, political, credits, that push the e-car anywhere near competitive with a petro car. I have nothing against a ecar - I think everyone should review getting one if they are a two car family then it likely makes sense for one to be a ecar.
You don’t factor hyper-depreciation of EV’s. Degradation of range by aging of batteries, degradation of range by cycles of batteries, and degradation of range in cold climates (range on a brand new EV will be half on cold days (below 32F). EV’s are not a good $$ decision, they cost more to own than a gas engine. That is why I believe hybrids are the much better choice…I have 5 years and hundreds of thousands of miles with hybrids.
My 2017 Bolt is worth more now than when I bought it. It has 55,000 miles on the car with no noticeable decrease in range. Range does go down in the cold sure, but why do you ignore that it goes up when it's warm? How often is it below freezing? How do they cost more to own than a gas car? They have almost no maintenance. They're dead cheap to charge at home and still cheaper than gas at public rapid chargers. Electricity would have to be 60c/kWh for me to even come close to breaking even between my old Subaru and my Bolt, and that's ignoring the time and money cost of the monthly maintenance the 'super reliable' 'Roo needed. You don't have to make weekly trips to the gas station. Just plug it in when you get home and it's ready next time you leave. I lived with the car for over a year with just a 120v outlet charging it through a hundred foot extension cord out the mail-slot to the street. Most people have better parking situations than that, and or can charge at work. Hybrids have all the issues of gas and EV without the fun of either. They have wimpy gas engines, usually have CVTs or at least automatics, not manuals. They don't make any fun noises. My 'Roo purred and my Bolt sings to me, hybrids poot poot poot. The gas gets old, or wasted, and the battery is just dead weight after 40mi costing even more money. They're expensive, hard to maintain, stinky, slow, and don't end up saving all that much. Still, better a PHEV than a pure gas car I suppose. Plus they keep us more dependent on the oil market than we could be. MBS had a tantrum and withheld Saudi oil for a while? Guess gas is $5 a gallon again. Putin finally got his Swan Lake moment? Guess oil's going to jack up in price again because of that. Wildfires prevent Alaska from producing as much oil? (which has already been running out since the 90s) Guess gas is getting more expensive. Meanwhile the only reason solar panels are 'expensive' is that we didn't invest in them properly here and then got annoyed and threw tariffs on the ones made in China.
Every vehicle is different and it depends on external variables. When gas is cheap used EV prices are lower, thus depreciation is higher, but every time gas goes up used EV prices go up too. There's a lot more incentive for people to calculate the worst case depreciation than an accurate one, being able to charge more for a lease being at the top of that list.
Depreciation is a much harder metric to consider. It makes sense to check that out for any vehicle you buy. Brand can have a significant impact on resale value for instance.
What about figuring your cost for your solar system ? You have invested many dollars for your solar system. Most EV owners forget to do this. I like EV people that are totally honest and figure in all monies spent on vehicles, Solar systems, and all things considered. Be honest and figure in ALL costs and investments.....otherwise you are lying to yourself as well as others.
He already has videos on the payback period for his solar system. Charging an EV with that system doesn't change that. One thing that is priceless with generating your own power and fueling your own vehicle is that you are no longer reliant on the grid or fuel. How much is that system going to be worth to you if the grid goes down and the gas pumps no longer operate?
@@sociopathmercenaryOh, charging an EV on that system abosulutely changes that. Charging your EV from your solar cuts the payback period in half or more. Just subtract the amount of money that you normally spend on gas and oil changes and brakes from the total costs. You're saving several thousand dollars a year if you can charge from your own solar either at home or at work. That's why a lot of business and turning to EV trucks. They're saving hundreds of thousand of dollars per year.
American EVs are terrible. Very high cost and extremely bloated with stuff that's not needed. Most people need some type of EV with a range of 50 miles or so. These can be made very cheap. But for some reason they aren't allowed in America. A small cheap EV could be charged with a dedicated small solar system with a small storage battery. Owning the EV would have basically zero operational cost. You could actually sell a package deal. Super cheap EV with solar charge station and grid backup. This EV could be a car or a bike. As long as it goes 55mph. Make this package available and your normal car will disappear.
It will be interesting to see where the market goes. EVs with a short range don't seem to sell well in the US. But I agree, the market is missing a "no frills" budget EV.
How about just using your card and pay for freaking ⛽️ at the station and you're 👍 to go anywhere 😂😅😊 but l guess it's not for you americans it's for those notions who value time!!!
@@FuncleChuck yeah those extrem cold ones I saw vids they need to wrap the car in a blank to get the engine to spin and they like heat up the engine with a gas torch. Yeah those are the sub zero type climates
My LEAF runs fine with snow tires on it in the Midwest. The belly pan is smooth, so it can still clear about 5 inches of snow. The additional weight is probably the biggest problem in low friction scenarios. Most EVs have battery warmers. Cold definitely puts a dent in range, but I've driven 50 miles in -20F, -29C, weather when lots of ICE vehicles wouldn't even start.
I drove my Tesla at -38C this winter. Sure, maybe 30% reduced range compared to summer, but nice and warm in the cabin and no problems whatsoever. My Volvo V70 diesel wouldn't start.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
I already updated the calculator to show "Years to break even" when the EV cost more then the ICE vehicle. Add additional suggestions below. Thanks!
Find all related materials on my website here: projectswithdave.com/free-ev-vs-gas-calculator/
FREE - EV vs GAS cost comparison calculator: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZhV46SSkQSIA_LuiJYYbYMRMAMz8b6s8/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117695764163777825762&rtpof=true&sd=true
See more projects and get my FREE Solar Financial Calculator on my website ProjectsWithDave.com: projectswithdave.com/
here it is the opposite regarding insurance: EVs are cheaper cause the likelihood of causing a crash is significant lower for EV drivers which are driving far more efficient and looking ahead.
What is the most efficient driving method ?
Simply sailing if you come to a crossing and not to use regenerativ breaking or 1 pedal drive cause the recuperation means a loss of 33%.
Just let the car roll to come to a full stop or use the brakes only on the last 15 km/h.
Here EV insurances are about 60% for example in the GOLF segment comparing a similiar powered GOLF VII with the e-GOLF.
We also get a CO2 emission certificate which we then can sell each year which is a kind of compensation cause the average EV energy consumption and its CO2 footprint will be compared with the CO2 footprint of an average ICE car. The difference is the value of the CO2 emission per EV issued every year. Those certificates are bought by all the oil sellers who need to have the right amount of rights as compensation. So we got roughly 230€ per year as compensation when selling in the past 3 years.
Maintenance is a lot lower, tire wear should be higher due to higher weight by average but the drivers search for efficiency is lowering the tyre wear even more than the weight is increasing it. Good tyres last longer based on a Mercedes comparison between ICE and EV over 100.000 km.
For most places in the US, car insurance is dependent on both the driver and the vehicle. That's why I recommended getting an insurance quote and using that number in the calculator.
@@ProjectsWithDave I noticed that gray is spelled wrong in your formula, when the spreadsheet outputs "gray area". Not sure it this was intentional to compromise on both "gray" and "grey", or if it was just an oversight.
My wife drives a 2015 Toyota Sienna. I drive Hyundai Ioniq 5 2022. We drive about the same miles: work, recreation, etc. She pays $160 to $180/month. My home EV charger software pulls in FPL (utility) per kWh power and calculates the cost of electricity. EV cost is $18/month. Maintenance? I almost miss doing oil changes. Living in hurricane territory, it is good to have a home generator that can also charge your EV. Gas fuel becomes a problem if power is out a week or more after a hurricane. The generator is duel fuel gas/propane. 8.4 kw solar installed as well, which also charges EV routinely. Proof of concept in video is excellent.
I wonder if a small 1-2 ground mounted solar array would work well for powering the vehicle through extended outages? An efficient EV should be able to get about 20 miles per day off that.
@ter450 Thanks for posting your actual results! Sounds like you have a flexible setup with lots of charging options.
@DeilGrist something I had put on paper. More solar you set up would increase your range. And why not use it for daily commutes?
I'd like to see a cost of ownership comparison between your two vehicles. I think the Sienna's residual value will tip the cost of ownership meter away from the full EV.
Good Idea with the calculator! I did the math comparing my and my parents car a bit ago. Mine a Chevy Bolt EV and theirs a Chevy Cruise Hatchback (same model year 2017): I was saving just about 1000USD a year and I've already made up the initial price difference and into the pure savings! (And that's without solar...) I can understand how you might think it would be an inconvenience to have an EV if your basing your experience off an old Leaf: I had one. It's range wasn't doing it with job switch, but having a longer range one for a while now, it's a huge convenience! Always leaving home with plenty of range, never having to worry about stopping for gas (haven't been late anywhere since switching either), less monkey business with oil changes etc... I drive a fair amount with that job and it's saving me a lot of time, worry, and money. Anyway you wanted my experience and there it is, Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to post your info! I've had the opportunity to experience EV's with decent range, I still found myself having to constantly think about how much available range I had left. Maybe that would change after some longer term experience.
Everyone needs to be comfortable with their car. We have a Nissan Leaf and have pulled in to my parents or in-laws (who both have a 240v plugs we can use). We have pulled in comfortable with 1 or 2% remaining. My sister has a Model 3 Tesla with better range and better charging, she still is uncomfortable with the car getting below 50% on a long trip. Be comfortable but I love arriving on an empty tank and having it full in the morning.
I'm not laughing at you Dave! As a mechanical engineer myself, I really appreciate your analytic approach. As we watched your video, I explained to my son that what you showed on your calculator, and how you explained it, is how engineer's roll! I think you provide a great example of how good decisions are made. I have a nearly identical spreadsheet for my solar and EV decisions!
It would be interesting for you to combine your solar and EV calculators to build a complete ROI model for how an EV can help provide ROI on a DIY solar installation. We did a DIY ground mount similar to yours (we did 14.6kW net metered). My wife and I now commute with Chevy Bolt EUV's, and I often describe it as the EV's paying the solar panels for fuel. With 2 EV's, the amount of gasoline cost avoidance greatly improves the ROI on the solar investment.
With reasonable driving habits, we haven't seen an issue with excessive tire wear. The zero-maintenance aspects have been time and money savers. The driving experience is excellent.
Plus we underestimated the satisfaction of solar-powered commuting and never pumping gas!
Thanks for the encouragement! I like the idea of including EV charging in the ROI for a solar investment. Thanks!
Love the calc. I have a BMW ix. Pricey so won’t fare well in the calculator but in Canada gas is closer to $6/gallon and electricity where I am is 11c/kwh. So our savings on gas has been massive. More than the difference in the car payment with our Toyota Highlander - we drive our second gas car so much less now as well. I have over 37000miles with original tires and have spent $0 on maintenance. No brakes, no air filter. I also calculated the amount of time I am saving by charging at home - about 50min a month. I road trip occasionally including annual trip to FLA and it still works out in my favour in terms of time spent ‘refuelling’.
Nice! Thanks for positing your actual numbers for people to reference.
Great video. I am considering switching to a EV. You pointed out a couple of things, I didn’t think of. Anyone thinking about switching. Needs to watch this video. It was simple and you did not talk over my head. Thanks for making the free calculator.
One quick point - TIRES.
On my 69 Camaro (350 LT1) I went through a set of mid-quality bias plies in 9,000 miles. I went back to the tire store and they just laughed. AND LAUGHED.
There is a company in the UK who uses EVs for their repair fleet - THEY get 40 - 50 K miles (YES, the UK uses miles) out of a set of tires. (EDIT: Google CLEEVELY)
So why the disparity, and why do people believe EVs do terrible with tires. Well, that is the point of the first part of the comment. The cheapest Tesla can ABSOLUTELY DUST that 69 Camaro!
So ... I would suggest that how long your tires last depends a LOT on how heavy your foot is!
100% percent correct. That has been our experience. It's all about how you drive. All that FUD about EV tires is the same type of FUD about solar from Luddites. Those people have never been in an EV, nevermind owning one.
Yes, your driving characteristic is going to be the biggest factor, but keep in mind as illustrated by @capnkirk5528, if the torque is available, it's hard not to use it. 😂
Yeah, EV is in general have so much power off the line people drive them aggressively and wear the tires out quickly. It has nothing to do with the vehicle itself.
@@ProjectsWithDave I recommend setting the accelerator to "chill mode", which avoids using the excess torque, and keeps the traction force gentle, to improve tire life.
EV motors are deliberately built with more torque than they expect you to use, since a motor oversized on torque has an efficiency advantage. Unlike an engine, where more-than-necessary torque, makes it less efficient.
Who still uses bias ply tires?
Great in depth info and spreadsheet! The takeaway should be that you CAN charge an ev from a generator in an emergency but you wouldn't normally do that, just like you wouldn't normally power your house from a generator. We have the car with a built in generator, a 2014 BMW i3 rex, now with 120k miles on it. With the 70k miles we have put on it, the savings have covered the purchase price and it costs about 1 cent per mile based on the power from our home solar that I installed!
Nice! Thanks for the detailed comment. Having the built in generator is great! It dramatically improves the usability.
Tires is always an interesting inclusion in EV extra costs. Do people go through them more? Yes. Why? Because people don’t adjust driving style to the new power train. Instant torque is going to mess with tires no doubt, but only if you drive with a lead foot.
Modern cars are so good at going where you point them most people give no consideration to physics while driving anymore until they get into racing scenarios. Yes, on average a heavier car carrying the same speed around a corner will wear the tires proportionally more. No, it's not that bad unless you're driving aggressively enough that you're probably not surprised.
People have an issue because you have the unfortunate combination of more weight and more available torque.
@@ProjectsWithDave
There seems to be a foot problem also.
IMO less about torque and a pedal problem, More the weight/thinner width tires for a car comparable 10% more weight on 5% more tire compounds fast.
But if you take into consideration of just oil changes it basically offsets that cost, So you still save on "gas" or $dollar per mile traveled.
What I don't see enough people talking about saving on is brake's. 6yrs and almost 250K miles not once needed brakes, Yes in part because they are bigger and better but mostly because I hardly use them lol. Most people that get's changed every 40-60K miles.
@@dizzlethe7346 using less brakes is great and one of the reasons I'd like to get my wife into an EV or hybrid so she could stop warping rotors, but if you're nice on brakes and change them yourself you can get the cost down to $100 every 70k to 80k miles, so the cost savings is only there if you pay someone to replace your pads and rotors.
Great job Dave! I love the calculator. Real-world efficiency is important to understand including the losses going into the car - well done pointing that out. I'm personally saving quite a bit by commuting with my EV vs. the gas car. And with solar power sufficient to charge the car it's almost a no-brainer! This calculator will help me better explain it to the wife (and friends)! Thanks!
Thanks! That is a great use case for the calculator!
Great article Dave! One of the home energy/electric vehicle questions I muse about is philosophical.
What is the value of ANY kind of power during emergency situations?
It's an arbitrary metric that I grapple with.
During the rare times my local electric grid has gone down; When my little solar power system keeps home power "up"..
it promotes a deep sense of appreciation that is difficult to describe or put a number to.
Good point. In my case, if gas was not available I could actually still power my car with solar.
Superb work as always, Dave. I've had a Chevy Volt (2 different model years) since 2014. My current is a 2017. It is a plug-in-hybrid, so a bit different on all these calculations. I like the whole idea of a plug-in-hybrid simply because I can use gas any time I actually need to. However, with my typical commute, I fill up my gas tank roughly once every 9-10 months (just over 8 gallons at Seattle's ridiculous $4.95/gal). According to my Volt, about 92-93% of my miles have been electric alone. I have about 82,000 miles on my current Volt. I've had to replace my tires due to wear only once so far. Two oil changes so far. That's it. Things I like very much about my Volt are how smooth the power/acceleration is and how quiet it is. I absolutely love it and will probably drive it into the ground (I'm hoping for, oh, 150k miles). Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the info. I think plug in hybrid is the best of both worlds for functionality. The only down side is price and extra complexity.
Thanks for the calculation sheet. Because of rapid EV evolution and depreciation changes, I don't look at +10- year TCO predictions, but running year's CO predictions. I had to add to my copy the maintenance as it changes each year. That has an effect on a good break even prediction, and it changes based on experience.Maintenance costs are determined by time (brake fluid) , miles driven (eg tires, oil changes, brake pads) and total mileage (eg 100K ICE service) There are big jumps at 30, 60 and 100K miles and whenever the warranties expire. Routine maintenance EV parts are often higher than for ICE, particularly those related to vehicle weight. Unique vehicles like the Cybertruck many have very unique consumable parts.
Love the calculator - very nice analysis. I'm driving a Toyota RAV4 Prime - plug-in hybrid. I knew when I bought it the benefit was marginal at best. With gas now at $4/gal and my grid electric at $0.16/kWh, driving about 11,000 miles/year, I am slightly negative on operating costs vs. ICE only. I've charged at some public charging stations, which bill me for kWh consumed, and compared to what the car receives and it is just about the 85% efficiency you cite.
Still - my personal use case is a perfect match. Most of my driving is local and the ICE never needs to run, but when I take a road trip, I'm on gasoline with all the convenience of easy and fast fill ups. Tire wear is "normal" since I'm not carrying 3,000 lbs. of batteries to go 2 miles to the grocery store. I'm also not putting short-trip wear on the ICE, limiting its use to longer highway trips. After 2.5 years, aside from a few oil changes, I've had zero maintenance. Although Illinois charges a higher registration fee for EV's, I'm classified as a conventional fuel vehicle, so no registration premium. Similarly for my insurance cost. In 2021, I still qualified for the EV tax credit, so the premium price was significantly discounted.
Thanks for your detailed information! I think the plug-in-hybrid is the best of both worlds, the problem is they tend to be pretty expensive since they carry two full powertrains.
For $35k you can get a brand new Tesla Model 3... could be even cheaper.
For $25k you can get your dealer to sell you a fabulous Ford Focus with 1.0 engine!
These days new vehicle prices between EVs and ICEs (for the same class and specs) are nearly the same.
Also in Europe we pay $1.7/L ($6.44/gal) for gasoline and our electricity is $0.08-$0.16/kWh, depending on the time of day... But some countries can pay up to $0.30/kWh if they are high on coal.
That amounts to $2,735 in yearly savings. Without even considering that you're also saving yourself and family from the toxic exhaust gasses.
Cost of ownership? - Go EV!
Wow! Your price delta between gas and electricity would make the numbers work out in favor of EV pretty easily.
Driving EVs for 10 years now, never got stranded, driving through Europe, long distance is so easy. Drove more than 300k km. Cheaper than a gas car, better. Got PV on the roof and 75% of all my energy needs are made at home for house, heatpump and EV.,Greetings from 53°N, PV works even that far north.
How did you integrate the solar panel into your system? Do you see any significant benefit from it?
@@ProjectsWithDave PV generates 75% of all my energy. There are multiple options, I chose an island system which is independent from the grid. That was due to the tax system our government had 10 years ago, they taxed own PV. Usually you would build a grid parallel system, anyway you use your own PV and only buy the rest from the grid. The system paid off in 7 years (including battery, but all self built, today its 34kW PV and 50kWh usable battery, so no small AAA toy). The hardware is easy, very cheap today (11cents per Watt PV) the problems are with the regulators and government, they dont want that. Anybody living south of my 53°N location could do 100% of all energy all year round without ever buying a single electron from a power plant. Renewable energy ist cheap. Yesterday and today are sunny days here in Germany, grid electricity is -6 cents or 0 cents at the energy stock exchange! So energy is indeed free. But grid fees and taxes are 18cents/kWh over here, thanks government. Usually we pay 36cent/kWh, Euro cents, add 10% for USD.
Typically in the EU and Scandanavia, etc. the pump price of petrol is actually twice the price of the fuel itself. There can be a 100% surcharge for taxes built into what you pay. This was an intentional choice after WW2 to raise money to build the fine new rail systems that were needed, and other projects.
In the US the combined taxes may be 20%, mainly road taxes that are supposed to maintain the roads.
That's very different from EVs, since there are no road taxes, transportation funding, etc. on your electric bill for the EV.
There have already been proposals to add a $250 annual registration fee for EVs, or more complex schemes, to force EVs to replace the tax money that is all paid by gasoline users.
A very interesting calculator but one line you forgot is car deprecation.EV are improving every year in battery capacity, charging speed and new pricing going down, bringing down their used price way faster than the ICE cars, no one would buy a 10/12 years old EV were the batteries replacement cost is way above the car value but a 15 yo ICE car as still some can still keeping you on the road for a few more years.
Yes, that's hard to work into the calculation. I suggest you take the time period you are expecting to keep the vehicles and estimate the difference in depreciation between the two. Then add that delta in the "misc" line.
Depreciation is the biggest cost of car ownership and is not considered in the calculator. EV owners have been impacted even more than gas car owners in the last year. Lest anyone be purely driven by numbers you also don't account for less tangible things like a better driving experience, time saved by charging at home, and time saved getting oil changes, etc.
EVs were only impacted more because manufacturer(s) brought the prices they were charging down all at once. It’s not something that’s likely to happen again.
I think that it’s pretty likely that new EV prices will continue to come down. Tesla still has margins far above traditional manufacturers. There’s also a major depreciation spike as EVs get around 8 yrs or 100k miles and there’s fear of a very costly pack replacement. Don’t get me wrong, I own an EV and I love it, but I don’t think its total cost of ownership over the 4-5 years I’ll probably keep it is going to be lower than ICE.
I'll have to think about a way to consider depreciation.
This is a great argument for buying a used, but not very old EV - it’s great value. Especially considering the other tech recent EVs come with (safety systems, infotainment, etc).
My personal experience after three years of EV ownership, our only car, is yes unquestionably EV do save money. We average approx 15k miles annually and I save some £200 a month on fuel costs. We principally charge at home on an off peak tariff at 9p per kw/hour and we average about 4.4 miles per kw/hr so fuel costs about 2p per mile. Servicing is half the price of my last ICE car and I've not noticed any difference in tyre wear EV/ICE. New EV tyres are of an equivalent price to quality ICE tyres. Bring the savings on.
Thanks for posting your actual results. It's a good example of how variable electricity rates can be a significant factor in the equation.
28,000 miles per set of tires on my 2022 model Y performance. 😊
My ridgeline got 60,000 miles on the last set and they weren't even down to the wear bars yet.
At present, my Hyundai Ioniq 5 has 22k. Treads look great. Dealer service just last week said at least another 10k plus.
38,000km on my LR Model Y lots of tread depth to go, think you have a foot problem.
It's how you drive any car had a mustang 30,000 miles per set, model 3 35,000 miles per set now I changed my driving habits lite on throttle and lite on deceleration I could tell the difference in tire wear.
agree with you that I hate the MPGe figure. I understand why EPA choose it.. to keep the window sticker in a unit that MOSTLY is comparable .. but not exactly. That said I still prefer mi/kWh over (k)Wh/mi. It is far easier to think in that terms, and is already the same as mpg.
I agree that metric is the most comparable to what we are already used to. My problem is there are too many varying ways to report the metric. It's confusing for people.
Another solid video from you Dave! Thanks for the slick calculator.
Thank You!
I have a bicycle I can ride for basically free, does that mean the bicycle is a better transport than my ICE car?
You see, things have applications. Try collecting a few cases of hand towels on a bicycle when its raining and you need to travel 20 miles with them.
A combination of convenience and costs are decider points not just each on its own.
The convenience part is more difficult to add to a spreadsheet. You'll have to factor that in separately.
Here is my pro i charge my 2018 Nissan Leaf at work 85-90% of the time :) its plugged in right now as we speak.
That's a nice perk. Not many employers pay for their employees fuel.
HI Dave, My only concern is the the everyone consider the price of electricity as the Supply service. No one talks about the Delivery charges. Usually in my case event hough the Supply Service is 14 cents an KWH but but the Delivery charge is ~16 cents an KWH. So wouldn't be it wise to add Supply service and Delivery Charge to calculate actual cost of energy put in EV to calculate average price/miles driven? Hoping to hear your thoughts.
Yes, I suppose I should have commented on that. I assumed you would including delivery, tax, etc. in the cost/kWh you use in the calculation. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm in these numbers all the time and forget that what is obvious to me may not be to everyone else. Every bill is a bit different, mine even has a fuel surcharge cost/kWh, you have to add it all together. Thanks!
A huge pet peeve of mine as well!!! I see crazy low electrical numbers posted all the time, then realize folks are only looking at a fraction of the total cost of electricity!
Also, in COLORADO it has been possible (several times) to get a Base Model 3 for less than $25K before taxes and transportation. So a $10K premium seems a little high? (Maybe not in an anti-EV place like Ohio).
Same in NJ. 26K and NO tax on an EV purchase in NJ for a brand new Model 3 just this past year. And the base Model Y is now down to $35,490 after the federal rebate and no tax.
Sorry, the numbers in the spreadsheet were just for illustration. The point is to put your actual numbers in to calculate your actual cost benefit result.
EV batteries as a home battery - EV to home/grid makes an interesting pro for cars that can do it,
Absolutely. That is 100% my primary criteria for any EV
How are you making use of that feature?
@@ProjectsWithDave The Ford Lightning is one such example. If you need home power backup during an extended outage, you can either charge it at work, or charge it at a public charging station, and then bring home a charged battery to support your home appliances. This assumes the power outage is localized to your home, and you have nearby sources of working power. It can support both apartments at 120/208V and it can support free-standing homes at 120/240V. It even tells you how much power on the black phase and red phase you are using.
Not exactly the use-case I could see myself using. Usually the most economical and convenient charging you get for an EV, is when you have a home charger that you run in the middle of the night, and charge with off-peak rates (if applicable).
Thank you for the real world review.
This is what I care about when it comes to my Tesla. I don’t have to go to the gas station. I don’t have to change my oil. I’ve always got enough energy.
If you have an adequate number of solar panels on your home and you primarily charge at home, can this offset the cost of charging completely?
Yes, but you have to consider time of use. If you have monthly net metering, and no time of use charges, you could easily do that. If not, you would need a very large battery that would probably negate the value of the whole activity.
17:15 this isn’t really true, we’ve a model 3 and have had the same tires for over 40K miles (the winter tires have about 20K miles) and they are still going strong. And no we are no light drivers, we use every bit of hp and torque the car has 😅
Great info. I have that same red open frame generator. Have you ever tried it out to change a power station (EcoFlow)???
No, that's a good idea. I did try to run a microwave and it was a scary result.
Thanks Dave for all the good work you do. Question, I live off grid on a 30 kw solar system and charge my Ford Lightening with a Level 2 charger. Tons of power but sometimes over work my inverters with charging and house load. In theory can I direct DC charge from solar if I string my panels to a voltage the truck accepts? Do you know the acceptable voltage for the F150? Thanks again.
I'm not sure what the F150 voltage is, but it is probably around 400VDC. To my knowledge there is no home setup at this point for DC charging. But hopefully one comes soon.
What do you mean by over working your inverters? What brand are they? Your inverter should be able to run continuously at full load with no issues.
My guess with the leaf underperforming on range is the range calculator wasn't accounting for the low ambient temperature. Cold batteries perform worse, and the older BMS aren't good at calculating that.
It wasn't very cold when I ran the Leaf test, it was about 50deg F.
The gas generators I have seen that are used for RVs, have the ground neutral bond plug connected to a 120 outlet. This leaves the 30 amp plug available to connect to the RV.
So I’m wondering, do you use the ground neutral bond plug on the 120 outlet when you’re using the 30 amp plug for charging an EV?
Yes. The only thing the bonding plug is doing, is tying the neutral wire to the generator frame. Even if breaker to the outlet is switched off, the neutral and ground are still connected. Only the hot is switched on and off.
Yes, you can use either plug, but not both. You just need one point of connection between ground and neutral in the system.
So the leaf has a few things working against it to test. The SOC is non linear. The early car could have a 13.75a on board charge 3.3kw or the big charger is the 27.5a. 6.6kw Also the charger Efficiency is very poor compared to something like a Tesla. A tesla however has more overhead with electronics so higher power is better for efficiency. For a leaf the best way to see power input to the battery is leaf spy phone app. Best case efficiency at 240v I’ve measured 86% wall to battery efficiency. Same test in a tesla is 94%. At lower amperage’s and voltages the efficiency is worse.
Correct. Any modern EV would have been a much better choice for this test.
@MrTheexplorer128 Thanks for the details on the leaf. I'm sure I'll try this again with a more modern EV. The Rivian was loosing power in my first test because of the battery warmer. I guess every vehicle will be different in some way.
In my case cost savings were a secondary reason to purchase an electric vehicle. So I didn’t need to know the precise pay back time. As for emergency charging, I have found it pretty simple to operate the EV such that is highly unlikely need one. If the worst case scenario does happen I’ll call a tow truck.
One thing to consider, in the "worst case scenario" there may be no tow truck available.
@@ProjectsWithDave And your friend might also not be available in such a situation. I really don't see this being any different than driving a gasoline car. Actually running yourself dry is such a rare thing to have happen, relying on outside help isn't really that big of a problem.
Call roadside assistance or AAA or whatever your auto insurance gives you, and a truck comes by with a big generator to give you enough charge to make it home or to a nearby charger. Or even go knocking on businesses or doors looking for a plug you can tap into. No tow truck necessary.
Running out of gas is really no different. People don't go around carrying gas cans in their trunk just waiting for that rare emergency to happen. The only time you see that is on actual work trucks.
-Matt
Just watched this video… Our daughter recently visited, driving her Tesla Model Y from Miami to northern Wisconsin. I asked her how much the charging stations cost her. Total distance was 1791 miles and her receipts added up to about $220. I calculated that our Traverse at 29 mpg and an average of $3.50/gal would cost about $216 in fuel. The other significant thing from my point of view was the charging time. She estimates a 12 hr trip usually takes 16 hours. I think I’ll stick with gas powered vehicles for now! Thanks for an informative video!
Thanks for posting data from your actual experience. I also calculated that the cost/mile when using public charging stations is generally greater than the cost of gas. If you can't charge at home it would be very difficult to justify an electric vehicle as a way to save money.
For a Tesla, the loss is closer to 6% for home charging at 240V 32A and about 8% at 48A. The Nissan Leaf is not a great example of modern EV tech.
Ideally, we could use the DC current from solar directly to charge the car without inverting it to AC and back to DC, which causes the losses, primarily as heat energy.
You seriously started the video by griping about a fuel funnel the manufacturer provides. Then proceed to casually pull out 7 adapters to plug your appliance in and that goes without notice that the car doesn't even come with the charger it requires. Holy moly people.
😂
2014 nissan? Who knows what it came with.
Great stuff, thank you for the details!
Glad it was helpful!
I would expect any motor generator to deliver a sine wave. That is the same tech used to create most AC at scale.
I would be interested to see what the actual wave form is, and why the Leaf will not use it. It is possible that the frequency needs to be tightly regulated. My backup generator will lag behind 60Hz near full load, but the loads I have are tolerant of that deviation.
I drive a 2023 Nissan Leaf since the november 2023. I live in germany and in a city that offers charging cost per charge instead of per kwh. If looking at fuel/electricity cost alone my ev is way cheaper. Befor this car i drove a 2002 mercedes c180 as gasoline and had to pay an average of 110€ every 2 weeks. Since i own the leaf i've only paid 450€ over all for charging (wich includes a lot of higher priced highway chargerates). Maintenace cost is around the same for me (i bought the maintenance package whith the car wich makes it a bit cheaper over all).
As far as my experience goes:
pros: quieter while driving, more costefficient, cheaper tax (first few years non at all, after that it's reduced)
Cons: charging infrastructure isn't as good as gasoline, chargingtime when ac charging (specific to the nissan leaf since it can only charge with 6kw instead of the standard 22kw), specific to the nissan leaf (up to model year 2023) it uses chademo (dieing standard wich is rare to find at chargingstations) instead of ccs
Things people see as bad wich in practice isn't noticable: long range travel. I often hear that people don't want to drive an ev because it takes to long to charge when traveling long distance. In my experience i make a toilet/lunch break anyways regardless of if it's an ev or not wich usually takes around 30 minutes. In 30 minutes my car charges from 20% to 80% with quick charge so i use the break to charge my car.
Good job...good informative video...👍
Thanks 👍
kWh price here is average about 0.25 euro / kWh: 0.18 euro per kWh of taxes and 0.08 euro per kWh. However, we have next day pricing. In the summer the real price can be negative because there is too much solar and it might be so negative that it will be even lower than the tax you still have to pay. In very windy days, the electricity price is almost 0, but the taxes stay the same.
gasoline prices average between 2.13 euro to 1.91 euro per liter, so roughly $10 per gallon.
On dedicated fast charging places, the price however is more towards 0.65...0.90 euro per kWh. It all depends on speed. Home charging is the most cheap, but you can't charge a tesla from 0 to 100% in a reasonable time if you do 500km/day, or you need to request a lot of power from the grid.
Thanks for the details! It's interesting how different the pricing characteristics for fuel and electricity are around the world.
We I use a Setec 6kw unit and plug that into the Leaf and use the Leaf as a generator to charge another EV.
You can buy a $600 battery and solar panel combo and even save more in long run. also 3d Printed wind turbine.
People all too often, claim that electric isn't as convenient as gas. How so? You have an outlet at home, it can charge over night. You leave with a full charge every morning. With gas, you have to go somewhere to get it. I really like the idea of plugging in, when I get home.
I say that, because I CAN charge at home. If you live in an apartment complex, you may not be able to charge at home. You're better off with gasoline, because public charging stations cost a lot more per kWh, than home electricity. At that point, because of the time it takes to charge a battery, gas is much more convenient. You can take on 400 miles of range in just a few minutes, fueling up. With electric, you're there for ~45 minutes, to acquire 200-250 miles of range, under ideal conditions.
Right, electric vehicle usability/convenience is very user dependent.
@@ProjectsWithDave My recommendation is to RENT the EV you're interested in for at least 1 week. Make sure it's going to work for you, before you make a $50,000 mistake! I rented a 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV for a week, and it worked out better than expected. My next car WILL be an EV.
Interestingly my (UK Economy7) electricity tariff is priced according to the time of use. It's exactly one third of the daytime rate to use power from 2330 to 0630 overnight. This offers benefits for overnight EV recharging. However the government now is looking at recovering the tax that was being paid on road fuel purchases which could drive EVs back into the shade again. I'm considering a home battery so that I can buy electricity at the cheap rate but use it at peak time. Solar to charge an EV sounds like a good plan.
Inconvenience of having an EV?
Basically a full tank of gas every morning?
Not having to warm up the car every morning in the winter?
Not having to do oil changes and other internal combustion engine maintenance?
Traveling long distances and having to supercharge is the only inconvenience I can think of.
Well, ironically, my struck stopped working in the middle of a project this week because the starter failed and I had to replace it in the rain. In all fairness the vehicle is more than 20 years old and has over 130k miles on it with very few issues. I don't know what electrical issues I would have over that time period, but I wouldn't be replacing a starter. : )
Is it possible to bypass the batteries all together and run the vehicle off the generator electricity?
No, it doesn't have enough surge load capacity.
How are you determining the Cost of Electricity? I look at the bottom line and not what’s stated on the bill. I divide the total bill by the KWh used. That’s the actual cost.
In my case there is a base fee for having service and then a cost/kWh in addition to that. If you lump in the base fee as part of the total cost/kWh you will get a different cost every month. So I would subtract the base fee and then divide the rest of the bill by the total kWh consumed.
Hello Dave, I like your numbers but I would also add your solar cost ROI. I have done my own numbers and my Tesla has lowered my solar cost ROI from seven years to just three years. It took me a while to get used to my Tesla after driving Honda Accords for three decades and I am not going back. One cannot really go wrong setting up solar and switching to EV (if paying Federal taxes) with 30% discount and $7500 on EV. It feels great having free gas and the average person only drives 50 miles per day which requires not much of a solar setup to re-charge the EV if you do the numbers.
No one goes back to ICE after driving an EV.
@majid_us Good point about the shift in ROI for the solar system. I'll have to think about that one.
Dave why didnt you add fuel rate increase to the calculator?
Good question. The price of electricity is more stable and tends to increase over time in a fairly predictable way which is easy to put in to a calculator. My solar cost/benefit calculator includes the change in electricity over time ( projectswithdave.com ). Gas on the other hand goes up and down dramatically, and in fact, if electric cars start to become more popular the demand for gas will drop and the price will continue to fall. So, I felt the best thing to do was allow you to enter the average rate for the two energy sources you expect to see over the time period you are judging. Not perfect, but seemed like the best course of action for the situation. Thanks!
My only power option is solar electricity is 1.5 miles away. So calculator is worthless to me. However charging a electric vehicle is my next upgrade. Buying more inverters as we speak
Did you include the federal and state rebates in the EV cost? The price difference should be smaller.
Yes, you should include the final cost of each vehicle for the calculator input.
One thing I would do is buy a OBS II scanner so you can actually get the watt-hours into and out of the battery from the vehicle's computer. You can't really use the charge percentage on the display for such tiny amounts of energy... it won't be even remotely accurate. +/- 50%. The vehicle computer keeps track of it at a much finer resolution.
Beyond that, remember that efficiency is a function of voltage. Charging with 240VAC is far more efficient than charging at 120VAC, and weather conditions non-withstanding the vehicle having to heat the battery is not something it would have to do 365 days a year (but that works better with 240VAC too, for sure).
In anycase, considering how rare running out of gas (or charge) is, you can always just call roadside assistance / AAA / whatever comes with your car insurance and a truck will come with a big generator and give you 30-40 miles of range to get to a real charger or home. Not much different than if you ran out of gas and had to make a call.
In real life, EV range anxiety lasts less a week, then you realize that it's a non-issue and get on with your life.
-Matt
Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't know you could get watt-hours information from the OBD II port, I'll have to try that.
So you didn't rely on the meter to tell you how many miles you can drive but you relied on the meter to know the initial state of the battery
Amazing calculator great job lol but you forgot to subtract the inflation rate off the cash just kidding Dave but future Dave told me to remind you. haha
I agree!
He forgot to include the massive EV depreciation.
@@misternordberg3675 He will never sell it
Thanks for getting back to me on future Dave's reminder. 😂 I will have to think about how to best capture depreciation. That's a difficult metric to incorporate.
Another thing to add to your calculator is the health costs assorted with poor air quality created by gas cars.
Hmm, how do you measure that?
@@ProjectsWithDave
Search for child heath care effects due to vehicle emissions.
FYI, cars have 2 ways of calculating range. The first being based off of real world data; this one is not the default that is shown for most cars and some won't even calculate it. The second is off of the EPA rated value on the sticker which is often very ... generous. The Leaf you were testing with almost certainly showed this second value.
Yes, the list is EPA values and they tend to be a "best case" number. To compensate you can reduce the efficiency percentage from 85% to 80% for instance.
On the contrary, the range shown by the LEAF dash is it's guess based off recent usage, generally referred to as a GOM or guess-o-meter because it does a particularly poor job of guessing range for a variety of reasons. Dave would be much better served by using the SOC gauge if this car has one, but even that isn't terribly accurate, especially on a worn battery like he's using. You can see at the 5 minute mark this battery only has 9 of 12 health bars, which is the same as my LEAF. That's going to be between 68% and 78% of the original battery capacity.
3,75$ a gallon ?
I bet all the truck sales would be over if you have to pay 7,50$
That is why the american energy consumptin per capita is the by far highest among the industrial nations and the whole economy is not efficient.
You would never see the heavy trucks due to its high price of energy and social pressure from everyone if you drive a truck without using it as a truck like farmers do. Therefore sales are low and environmentalist will scratch the car in the city to show you a red flag.
We pay about 0,30 € or 0,33 $ per kWh and get 0,08€ per kWh we feed from our solar power system into the grid. Also the days of oil heating systems in houses are counted too: forbidden from 2045 onwards
Europeans pay about $8.50 a gallon
Most European roads are a lot narrower as well so big vehicles don't make a lot of sense.
If you drive 10,000 mi per year and only get 15 miles per gallon... Which is about What you can expect from a Ford super duty with a large V8... You're using about 660 gallons per year. Even at $10 a gallon, You just talking about a couple thousand dollars.
When the truck costs $100,000, fuel cost isn't that big of a deal for most people that are buying them.
That said, personally, we have a larger SUV that averages 20 mph and I rent a trailer when I need to haul things. It makes more sense financially.
I'm certainly not anti EV or solar tho. I would require bi-directional charging to supplement solar battery backup. Still planning on installing a large solar system here in Ohio, despite 11 cent power kWh electricity and limited solar hours.
It should for everyone because of the savings in maintenance cost.
One gallon of gasoline at a density of 2.85769 kg contains 0.3715 kg of hydrogen, so 11.80 ÷ 0.88 ÷ 0.3715 = 36.09 miles per kg of hydrogen. Don,t forget more than half the energy in the gasoline is needed to run your generator.
Nissan Leaf has battery conditioning? You jumped from a car that has battery conditioning to a car that does not, never testing whether it is possible to charge from generator in cold (or hot)
HOWdy P-w-E-D, ...
Thanks
COOP
...
Thanks for watching!
Some EVs will allow you to pull power from your battery. For example, my Hyundai Ioniq 5 has 74 kWh of "usable" battery potential. I can use that power at a maximum of 1.5 kw. Yet another backup power source in an emergency.
I think that is a feature that eventually all EVs will have. I know the Ford Lightning is set up to be a whole home backup. It only makes sense to be able to use that huge battery for other purposes. I discuss the Ford Lightning some in this video: ruclips.net/video/U2ilH8yOi7A/видео.html
Nice calculator. However, at this price range, EVs get a tax credit which reduces the breakeven period drastically. It is also common with expensive electricity rates to have solar, my mom's properties in california all have solar for about ten years. EVs also have some conveniences that is hard to put in numbers. I'm just wary of some EVs that still use pouch batteries which are not as robust as prismatic or cyclindrical cells. To be fair, most brands provide 10 yr EV battery warranty but...but warrant claims on battery can be hassle.
In Ontario Canada i'am on the ultra low rate program for home charging, only use super charges
Thanks for posting your actual results. It's a good example of how variable electricity rates can be a significant factor in the equation.
@@ProjectsWithDave
Also
Use my solar system batteries during the 28.8 time and most of the 12.2 time , works great in the summer.
In winter not so much, but do load shifting battery charging at 2.8 to using at 28.8 time greatly reduces the 28.8 usage.
Just added some vertical panels to get more winter low sun solar, will see the effect this coming winter.
I've seen new brand name tires, equipped on new cars, go bald at 16,000 gentle miles. The same tire company selling retail consumer tires can get 45,000 miles on the same cars. Nothing is as simple as it seems.
Dave, with the amount of solar that you have, an EV is an absolute no brainer for you. Many now come with vehicle to home or vehicle to grid so you use them as another backup battery for you home. Imagine pumping all that extra solar into your EV which you can use to drive it or even backup your house in a pinch on top of your home backup batteries. Add the cost of your gas on ICE to you charging your EV for free from your solar and then compare that for us. That would be a fantastic video.
As for a backup for your EV if you run out, there are portable batteries with wheels you can take with you if someone calls you in a pinch.
As for the tires comment, I can tell you that's total, 100% FUD. Just read all the comments on other videos abour solar being a total ripoff, and you get the idea of the same type of Luddites making those comments. Ours last just as long as any our previous ICE vehicles.
What happens with tires on some EV's, is not the EV but the driver. Remember what happened with the tires on your Camaro or Mustang (or whatever hot rod you had) when you were very young and wore them out before you knew it? It's the exact the same with EV's. Since they have so much more power and torque, drivers (especially young ones) keep showing off their 0-60 acceleration and the such. THAT'S what wears out the tires. If you drive normally most of the time, they last the same as ICE.
With an EV (whether new or used), you will greatly increase the amount of videos that you can make and a provide a more varied type of content for your channel to increase your viewership. Some of those Ford Lightings coming off fleet leases are some you might want to take a look at for where you live. But with the vast amout of EV choices now, you can go with whatever you want.
Just my two cents.
Thanks for the extensive feedback! I agree the majority of additional tire wear comes from the driving profile. If you drive very conservatively (which is hard to do with the extra available torque) you should get much closer to ICE performance. However, the vehicles are still much heaver so they will always be some amount behind a comparable ICE vehicle. I have found even with ICE vehicle the tire life can be dramatically affected by type and brand of tire purchased. It's very hard to do a true apples to apples comparison for this condition.
You're right, with my solar power, the cost to run one is very low. The one issue I have is finding a good used EV that has more than a 60mi range. My whole life I have purchased used vehicles, when I was younger they usually didn't run when purchased. For my first car I had to replace the engine to get it running. Even today, my truck has 130k miles and I do all the maintenance myself so the cost of ownership is very low. The point is the cost of getting into an EV is pretty high in comparison making the payback very long.
@@ProjectsWithDave I got a 2017 Bolt in 2019, it's been awesome so far here in Colorado.
I put some CrossClimate2's on it at the same time my mom put some on her Sorento, neither of us have had to change them yet after ~15k miles. It's a 3600lb Bolt compared to a 3900lb gigantic SUV. The Bolt is more torque-y and I'm a more aggressive driver, yet still they seem to be lasting fine. Plus they're winter tires that we never bother taking off, it can snow any month in CO so it's not really worth swapping tires all the time.
It's a fun little car, quicker than almost any gas car on the road. Can hold 4 adults. Can hold a few 2x4s but not a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Thinking about getting a tow hitch installed so I can trailer bigger stuff like that. I've seen others do it. As long as the lumber yard isn't >75mi away it's still going to be in range even with a trailer.
With the good tires it's safer than my old Subarus were in the snow. Downright boring almost since it just goes where you point it. No AWD/4WD so no donuts or crab driving through the snow :(
In good weather I can make it Denver to Pueblo and back without stopping. That's 240 miles of >70mph range through the mountains.
In the city I can get almost 6mi/kWh if I try. I average 4.5.
When it's below zero F that range gets cut by almost 40%, but it's still enough to make it to Denver if there was an emergency. Plus there's public charging all over CO.
Just at freezing the range is still down 25%. "Beverly" does like the heat and does not like the cold. Neither did my 'Roos though, had to let them idle for 10m till they warmed up enough to drive properly when it was below freezing.
My first trip was up to Grand Lake the weekend I bought it. It is amazing on those switchbacks and it only cost a dollar per hour to charge it at the yacht club there. I didn't need the charge, basically filled the battery back up on the ride down the mountain. Lots of places have free L2 charging around here, but I almost always charge at home.
I got it for $15,000 and could sell it today for $20k, but that's Vocid and inflation shenanigans.
With a 3.10 KW generator, it would take hours to charge the EV enough to drive it to the nearest charging station.
That's why this is an emergency use situation. The question I needed to answer was, is it possible within the realm of reason.
@@ProjectsWithDave This is an interesting video, and I like your premise. It is a really good idea, and I commend you. But most EVs have batteries that range in size from 60KW to around 100KW. The Tesla Model 3 Standard Range RWD with the LFP battery (64.4 KWH) is (probably) the most efficient EV on the planet, excluding a limited number of new exotic models. Depending on the temperature and terrain, you get approximately 4 miles per KWH in real-world conditions. If it is really cold, that range drops down by approximately 25%.
With these figures in mind, I have often wondered what a person would do if they were outside of a towing area. In order to get any significant "rescue" mileage, you would probably have to add at least 10 KWH or charge to the vehicle. There are mobile construction generators that are 10 KW, but as you so astutely point out, they probably don't have a perfect sine wave output.
What you are looking for is a portable 10KW generator that can actually output 10KW and produce electricity "clean" enough for EVs to accept. These 10KW construction generators are not massive and can be transported in a standard pickup. So, it is possible that there may be a special-use generator that outputs 10KW with an accurate sine wave "purity." I am not sure if these types of generators are even made because it would probably increase their cost significantly.
It is quite possible that generator companies that make various generators might see this as an emerging market. It seems to make sense that tow companies would have one of these generators and could connect to the stranded car for 30 - 60 minutes to provide enough range for it to drive to a charging station.
At any rate, your subject is interesting and I learned a lot from your video. Good job!
Thanks for your thoughts. I think the market for emergency support for stranded EV's will emerge quickly with "quick charge" solutions. I just don't want to have to depend on that.
I think the EV maintenance is way high. And I think the tyres on EV might wear slightly quicker but it comes down to your driving style. If you drive it like you stole it (and there is a tendency to do that in a Tesla) - 10,000 miles. If you drive it like your gas car - 30,000. I always compare the Model 3 with a hybrid Camry - there's only about 80Kg - 100Kg in the weight and you do less friction braking so I'd expect the same tyres to last a little bit longer on the Camry. But not 10,000 miles versus 40,000. I had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that did 85,000K on the first set and there was still another 10,000 in the rears. That was lugging around a 14kWh battery. Great car by the way. A lot of the reports on tyre wear come from Tesla owners - my Model 3 shipped with Michelin Pilot Sport 4s and that is never going to be a 50,000 mile (80,000K) tyre.
could add public charging costs also
I assume you will adjust the input for your electricity rate to reflect use of public vs private charging or an average of the two. I suppose it is possible to have two separate inputs controlled by the number of miles you expect to charge at each rate, but I think that would add unnecessary complexity for the average user. Thanks for the suggestion!
Nice calculator. Long distance driving and range limits, time spent refilling on said trip would also be considerations.
Thanks! Yes, there are a whole host of non financial issues to consider.
Good job buddy! I’ve made calculators like yours for work for years! :) Yours are better though lol!
I guess I don't understand the statement (floating around for quite some time) about electric cars burning through tires faster than gas. I drive a Chevy Volt (plug-in hybrid), and I don't notice a shorter tire life at all. I think no matter what vehicle you drive if you are reasonable on acceleration and deceleration the tires will last a long time. My state (Wisconsin) while promoting go green puts the extra fees on registration I would have to drive over 20,000 miles a year to make up for that alone. The yearly registration fee for a normal car is $85.00, electric or hybrid is $160, hell even my Dodge diesel 12,000 lbs plate is $106.
It is a little overblown, but it’s is a real issue. Weight and power - those are the issue.
You drove a Volt, of course you don’t notice this.
The problem is EVs that are 2 tons, 3 tons, or more - with 400+ horsepower. Absolute tire shredders.
But it’s unfair to compare those to “a normal car” too since those buyers would be buying high-powered SUVs already.
@@FuncleChuck is totally right, the tire comparison should be type for type of car. Tesla sells their cars as commuter cars, but they perform like sports cars and the tires that are recommended for them are sport tires. If you make this comparison it's easy for an aggressive driver to blow through $1000 of tires/year sports car or EV, but I've driven a LEAF (3300lbs, 110hp) for 6 years and gotten about 40k miles out of my LRR Prius tires.
Electric vehicles are charged higher registration fees in many states because they recognize that EV owners are not paying road taxes that are built into fuel prices. Since you are using those roadways, it's fair that you pick up part of the tab.
@@sociopathmercenary I agree with you to a point of paying my fair share of road tax, but because I drive a plug-in hybrid, I am also paying some fuel taxes already for this car. So with the current plate fee, and taxes paid for fuel I am paying more than my share, because I don't put that many miles on in a year anymore. Many more hybrids are much worse off than my situation because they don't get a lot better mileage than their non-hybrid versions.
Thats total FUD by Luddites. Most ICE pickup trucks and full size SUV's weight more than EV's. If you drive them normally, the tires on EV's last the same as ICE.
3.75/gallon is 2/3 the price in canada,
Don't you guys export oil? Seems like you're getting a raw deal...
7:00 The limit on a 30 Amp ckt for continuous use is 80 percent of breaker capacity, or in your case 24 amps... As you said, the problem is, using the adapters you selected, the charger thinks that you are using a 120V supply and limits you to a max of 16 amps. If you used a different adapter configuration you'd be able to get the full 24 amps.
I tried multiple adaptors, I believe the charger sees a 110V source and limits the current.
I think it could be a limitation of the cable the charger has. 24a at 110v requires beefier wire than 24a at 240v.
I bought a 1 gallon fuel can for my ice car backup
It depends on the EV. Actually, walking saves the most money, period.
Id have to say bicycling, tires last longer and are cheaper than shoes. Plus faster and more fun imo. 😁
Did you know you could do the entire world a big favor by demonstrating how to charge an EV more quickly than solar panels, but instead using the stored energy
in the alernator from a parked non moving ICE vehicle that requires no registration or insurance,
Where's the calculator you used when deciding whether to ask your wife to marry you or not? 🙂
I didn't publish that one, it was too complex.... 😂
It's Time for you to come out of the Closet and announce you really have a Real Polluting ICE Yugo. It's OK to tell the world you have a Yugo. Now go away...
i was looking for a video like this a few months back. people dont seem to be concerned with generator efficiency but in this case its important. 13.4 mpg haha i dont think ill be charging primarly of a generator any time soon
No but great information for emergency use
What friend would hook up another friend's car to a modified sine wave source?
I agree. I almost fell out of my chair when he said he used a modified sine wave generator and hooked it up to the car. Good way of damaging electronics. I would think the charger would not like that either and not be able to supply DC current to the car
Inverters and batteries generally don't care.
@@sociopathmercenary I wouldn't want to take the chance with my car.
Tow charge
I grew up in Alaska, there are places you would not even be able to call for a tow, let alone expect one to show up. Maybe my definition of emergency is fairly broad.
Thanks - Very honest calculator.
Price of gas is what it is but half of it can often be taxes.
Petro fuels are hands down SHOULD be a cheaper source of fuel on a raw lab bench level.
My proof to anyone is that any home - even regular homes covered in solar are still heating their homes with nat gas. If not their doing geo thermal or in very comfy climates 😊
It is all the human non-technical elements of climate valuations, taxes, political, credits, that push the e-car anywhere near competitive with a petro car.
I have nothing against a ecar - I think everyone should review getting one if they are a two car family then it likely makes sense for one to be a ecar.
In the US gas tax is obscenely low. In developed countries it tends to be more like half.
You don’t factor hyper-depreciation of EV’s. Degradation of range by aging of batteries, degradation of range by cycles of batteries, and degradation of range in cold climates (range on a brand new EV will be half on cold days (below 32F). EV’s are not a good $$ decision, they cost more to own than a gas engine. That is why I believe hybrids are the much better choice…I have 5 years and hundreds of thousands of miles with hybrids.
Difference in depredation between vehicles would be a good metric to capture, I'll have to think about how to add that.
My 2017 Bolt is worth more now than when I bought it.
It has 55,000 miles on the car with no noticeable decrease in range.
Range does go down in the cold sure, but why do you ignore that it goes up when it's warm?
How often is it below freezing?
How do they cost more to own than a gas car? They have almost no maintenance. They're dead cheap to charge at home and still cheaper than gas at public rapid chargers. Electricity would have to be 60c/kWh for me to even come close to breaking even between my old Subaru and my Bolt, and that's ignoring the time and money cost of the monthly maintenance the 'super reliable' 'Roo needed.
You don't have to make weekly trips to the gas station. Just plug it in when you get home and it's ready next time you leave. I lived with the car for over a year with just a 120v outlet charging it through a hundred foot extension cord out the mail-slot to the street. Most people have better parking situations than that, and or can charge at work.
Hybrids have all the issues of gas and EV without the fun of either.
They have wimpy gas engines, usually have CVTs or at least automatics, not manuals.
They don't make any fun noises. My 'Roo purred and my Bolt sings to me, hybrids poot poot poot.
The gas gets old, or wasted, and the battery is just dead weight after 40mi costing even more money.
They're expensive, hard to maintain, stinky, slow, and don't end up saving all that much. Still, better a PHEV than a pure gas car I suppose.
Plus they keep us more dependent on the oil market than we could be. MBS had a tantrum and withheld Saudi oil for a while? Guess gas is $5 a gallon again. Putin finally got his Swan Lake moment? Guess oil's going to jack up in price again because of that. Wildfires prevent Alaska from producing as much oil? (which has already been running out since the 90s) Guess gas is getting more expensive.
Meanwhile the only reason solar panels are 'expensive' is that we didn't invest in them properly here and then got annoyed and threw tariffs on the ones made in China.
Depreciation is Much Greater for an EV!
nah its the same.
@@laloajuria4678 -- Do some research on the subject and get back to us!
Nope
Every vehicle is different and it depends on external variables. When gas is cheap used EV prices are lower, thus depreciation is higher, but every time gas goes up used EV prices go up too. There's a lot more incentive for people to calculate the worst case depreciation than an accurate one, being able to charge more for a lease being at the top of that list.
Depreciation is a much harder metric to consider. It makes sense to check that out for any vehicle you buy. Brand can have a significant impact on resale value for instance.
What about figuring your cost for your solar system ? You have invested many dollars for your solar system. Most EV owners forget to do this. I like EV people that are totally honest and figure in all monies spent on vehicles, Solar systems, and all things considered. Be honest and figure in ALL costs and investments.....otherwise you are lying to yourself as well as others.
what are you even talking about?
He already has videos on the payback period for his solar system. Charging an EV with that system doesn't change that.
One thing that is priceless with generating your own power and fueling your own vehicle is that you are no longer reliant on the grid or fuel. How much is that system going to be worth to you if the grid goes down and the gas pumps no longer operate?
@@sociopathmercenaryOh, charging an EV on that system abosulutely changes that. Charging your EV from your solar cuts the payback period in half or more. Just subtract the amount of money that you normally spend on gas and oil changes and brakes from the total costs. You're saving several thousand dollars a year if you can charge from your own solar either at home or at work. That's why a lot of business and turning to EV trucks. They're saving hundreds of thousand of dollars per year.
American EVs are terrible. Very high cost and extremely bloated with stuff that's not needed. Most people need some type of EV with a range of 50 miles or so. These can be made very cheap. But for some reason they aren't allowed in America.
A small cheap EV could be charged with a dedicated small solar system with a small storage battery. Owning the EV would have basically zero operational cost.
You could actually sell a package deal. Super cheap EV with solar charge station and grid backup. This EV could be a car or a bike. As long as it goes 55mph.
Make this package available and your normal car will disappear.
It will be interesting to see where the market goes. EVs with a short range don't seem to sell well in the US. But I agree, the market is missing a "no frills" budget EV.
How about just using your card and pay for freaking ⛽️ at the station and you're 👍 to go anywhere 😂😅😊 but l guess it's not for you americans it's for those notions who value time!!!
that wont do so well in ice snow cold locations
Yes, cold weather will impact range dramatically.
Neither do gas cars, honestly
@@FuncleChuck yeah those extrem cold ones I saw vids they need to wrap the car in a blank to get the engine to spin and they like heat up the engine with a gas torch. Yeah those are the sub zero type climates
My LEAF runs fine with snow tires on it in the Midwest. The belly pan is smooth, so it can still clear about 5 inches of snow. The additional weight is probably the biggest problem in low friction scenarios.
Most EVs have battery warmers. Cold definitely puts a dent in range, but I've driven 50 miles in -20F, -29C, weather when lots of ICE vehicles wouldn't even start.
I drove my Tesla at -38C this winter. Sure, maybe 30% reduced range compared to summer, but nice and warm in the cabin and no problems whatsoever. My Volvo V70 diesel wouldn't start.