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Just diy installed an independant off grid system. 6 panels and 5kwh storage for most things except oven and hob. Consumption gone from 8kwh a day to around 1kwh a day. Use an air fryer rather than an oven! Makes a huge difference.
@@alip4207 tiger neo panels 435w black. Mpp solar 3624t. Renogy batteries. Scalable. Cables from Amazon and other elec bits from Screwfix. The inverter is noisy so I would deffo mount outside if possible. Mines in a utility room so no issue. I'm using about 80cent of power a day. Good panels and I generate enough for fridge and freezer and home office on overcast and even rainy days.
Yes, "except oven and hob" which use most electricity. Over 24 hours, your solar panels will barely charge your batteries to power your air fryer. Small-scale domestic renewables such as yours are not suitable for heating/cooling anything or for charging large batteries. Your 6 solar panels are quite unproductive as the sun is highly diffuse and at best will only work at one-third of installed capacity. Don't kid yourself.
@@richardjones3112 I think about 3600 euros but panels are much cheaper now. I had to replace one and it was nearly half what the other 5 cost. The typical installed grid connected solution is about 7k with no batteries which I don't think make sense.
One thing about the Tesla that wasn't mentioned if you have solar and that is that the gateway also builds up a memory of usage - amounts, time, etc. it also takes in weather forecasts. For example I have mine set to the Octopus low tariff 00:30 to 04:30. When I first had it installed i was worried when some mornings it hadn't pulled in much power overnight. I ended up speaking with Tesla support in Europe somewhere only to be told that the gateway was smarter than me. Based on the next days anticipated solar it might fill the whole battery or not add anything. Hey ho it's spot on and saves you filling the battery at night only to find that you are exporting solar energy because you forced the battery to charge. There are days when I thought it had got it wrong only for the sun to come out later in the day and fill up the battery. Its brilliant!
That's really interesting to learn! I'm at the start of my journey researching all this, considering just getting a battery to begin with (without solar), do you think that's worthwhile? I'm not discounting solar completely, it's mostly a cost consideration
Something to consider. If you top up your battery at cheap rate (9p/kwh) and its sunny next day, you immediately start exporting at 15p/kwh (Current Octopus) rather than charging your battery first and then having a shorter export window.
From the (admittedly limited) research I’ve done, one of the big advantages - at least for me - of the GivEnergy vs. Tesla is the ability to control the unit offline using something like GivTCP, rather than relying on the manufacturer’s cloudy platform. GivTCP can then also be used with something like Home Assistant to run automations you’ve set up.
For those on the nerdy side the ability to integrate the storage system into other home control systems is very useful information. I have a givenergy AIO which is linked to homeassisant, that opens up all sorts of weird and wonderful options to divert energy without being tied to a particular eco systems. One example is that in my install when the battery hits 95% state of charge (but only between sunrise and sunset) then the dehumidifier (on a zigbee smart plug) and air conditioning (mitisbushi) turns on in heat/cool mode depending on the time of year and internal temp of the house, those then turn off once the battery hits 100% if the electric car is plugged into the zappi charger and charging via solar divert.
Yes homeassistant is a massive help to bring all of this tech together. I had difficulty with my Powerwall emptying to fill my car when Intelligent Octopus gave me extra sessions. Set up a routine that if Octopus give me extra cheap energy time slots at 7.5p per kWh, the battery will switch to backup mode and also refill for the cheap price. This allows me to export more solar energy at 15p per kWh. I also use the MyEnergi Eddi to activate DHW from the ASHP, as it uses 1-2kWh rather than the 6-8 from the Eddi doing direct heat from the immersion heater.
Now that's utilising technology to the fullness. I do like Home Assistant but it's still about nerdy for me to do what you do. Home Assistant really could do with being made more user friendly interface as it would then get more adopters Will just have to wait till then hopefully
I have two Tesla’s installed. I had a Air Sourced Heat Pump installed since. Really made a difference my monthly energy costs (roughly 2/3 less). Worth considering.
That’s what I am installing , not personally , are there any specific points that I should address with installer , I don’t want to find after I want to do this and installer answers well if you told us we could have done so and so . I already note I have to have critical circuits chosen rather than have whole back up which is annoying , anything else crucial though from your experience?
Hi Jordan, nice video. I am not sure if you do solar panel installation, but could you suggest best panel, battery and invertor to go with 14 panels ideal for dull weather
Am an electrical technician and just finished installing my own solar system, at my house, here in wild Africa. And I think there is now 10 houses with solar in this town. Well, we do not have your fancy systems here at all. Tesla is way to expensive (even for a well-off middle-class family). Electric cars...in about 10 years maybe. Jip, we're watching the world from the sideline. Hope to get involved with some playtime sometime.
on my consumer unit, my critical loads are on a separate bus powered from the eps output of the inverter - but critically I included a bypass switch, which allows maintenance or failure of the inverter to keep my critical loads running directly from the grid - which most sparks seem to completely overlook
How long do you have to wait for a return on investment with a battery system in the UK? Here in Finland, the battery's payback period is longer than the battery's estimated lifetime.
If you just charge it off-peak and use it during the day, you can save about 20p/kWh. So a 5kwh battery could save you £1 per day, £365 per year. The cheaper 5kWh batteries (pylontech, dyness) are about £1000, so just that part of the system could pay for itself in about 3 years. A more expensive battery would be about 5 years. That's not including the inverter, assuming you're fitting that as part of a solar system, and the cost of the installation.
Em Portugal, depois de muitas contas, e atendendo ao meu perfil de consumo… o retorno é sempre a volta dos 10anos. Ter painéis solares compensa, 3 e o número que a matemática aponta, 4 será perfeito. O resto… não consigo justificar para mim
With the new BS PAS 63100 Installing batteries in a loft is now a no no. It also makes it difficult to install them anywhere within a house, and from how I read them even an integral garage. Looks like they will have to be on external walls or detached buildings.
Hi, great informative video! Currently I have a large garden shed with solar panels, and I generate some good really power, particularly in summer. I'm now looking to store some of that power for the days when there's less sun. I have an Alpha ESS Smile B3, with 2.9 kWh battery storage. I don't know anything at all about the unit and was wondering if I could just use this for simple storage and plug an extension lead into it? I don't need to export any power to the house, it's just for ad-hoc use in my shed. Hope you can advise on this. Many thanks.
Hi Very informative video. I'm going for a full Enphase based AC coupled solution with 2x Battery 5P The solar panels are designed exclusively for Enphase Microinverters, so I think it will be one of the best integrated solutions that suits my needs! Emergency power supply and Battery back-up are things that will be available in the future with the Enphase solution for the UK (lagging behind US etc). Like your work - everything is done neatly and to spec. - would have asked you to quote but we are a long way away! Keep up the great work - you are a great example to the industry
A bit late to this video I know but just a question. If my home is connected to the grid and I wanted a battery back up installed, would that not increase my energy usage initially to charge up the batteries?
With the give energy 13.5kwh, what happens if I have several high usage appliances on, like the oven, tumble drier, washing machine, so higher than 6 kWh in total on at the same time, is the give energy smart enough to use the 6kwh from the battery and supply the excess from the mains, or do I have to separate the appliances onto separate feeds?
Great video. I recently attended a talk about the grid setup and you’d be surprised how long it takes to adjust the power output from coal/biofuel stations. It often takes weeks. It’s gas which is used to adjust for variations in load during the day as it’s the only method where the power output can be changed quickly enough. That’s where battery storage systems really help.
From my understanding this is not 100% correct, heavy generators and flywheels are normally used for frequency stabilisation, the momentum prevents jitter. Peaker plants eg. Gas are there to supply peak loads, but not grid frequently stabilisation. Battery systems can now do both, peak load supply, and frequently stabilisation.
Ratcliffe on Soar coal fired power station is switching off , at long last, THIS SEPTEMBER 2024 … believe it or be the last UK coal Fired power station - FYI IT WAS DUE TO CLOSE YEARS AGO BUT DUE TO PUTIN’S INVASION OF UKRAINE & SUBSEQUENT ENERGY CRISIS IT WAS KEPT OPEN LONGER … FYI Coal is circa 1% of U.K generation over past 12 months
Thank you so much for this extensive and informative video! I’m looking to add solar, battery storage and EV charger and this has answered so many questions I had! I’m glad I found you on RUclips and have subscribed, so that I can keep up to date. Keep up the great work!!
Good luck , make sure to use reputable installer not the cheapest . I did my system last year along with heat pump and switched to ev . Now only gas cooker left and I will be full electric. I used GivEnergy not Tesla
How much do these batteries cost to run after taking into account conversion losses? For example some have heaters and cooling fans, Gateways monitor and control them - all takes power.
I’d say your first step in planning for either or both of solar and batteries is to install a monitoring system like Open Energy Monitor so you can discover what your usage patterns really are before investing in something that is incorrectly sized.
Hello Jordan, nice video, but how are you address the people who cannot afford complete systems. Do you have a plan for people to build up a system over 5 to 10 years? So that these people can do it piece meal style. Do you offer this kind of service to people so they too can see way to get to net zero?
Do you leave the pme connected earth in place when you add the earth electrode or are you removing that and relying solely on the T.T? I seem to recall a video Cory did a short while back where he had an off grid set up but removed the TNC-S and used the T.T only.
Nice video as usual, do enphase deserve a mention? just had installed with battery great bit of kit no back up yet though they supposed to be releasing later this year and there latest car charger over in the US can do car to home which is a game changer if you invest in a EV and don't need to have a large set of battery's
@artisanelectrics Thank you for another great video! But I was not able to determine from the video: Is the Tesla whole house backup a 3 phase system? Or how can a 3 phase whole house backup system be implemented? Thank you in advance.
I have 2 PW2s stacked because of available space on the external wall. In your example would it not have been possible to leave space to the right for a second unit?
I'm having a Powerwall 2 fitted but when I asked about a Powerwall 3, was advised that the grid will not accept them as they are too powerful or something. Happy to go with the 2 so I did not take a note of the query with the 3. However I guess this could change!
I am in Far North Queensland, Australia. I have 13kw solar and a 16kw Goodwe battery system. We generally use about 800Wph through the night. That lasts us through the night. We generally have a full charge by 1pm. Plus its a cold start (does not need mains to start inverter) and will power us during a mains outage. As we have cyclones its good to keep us running.
Good morning, I’m looking at a battery system, was looking at giv energy battery system but also seen the new Tesla Powerwall 3 battery system, which system is better?, down the line will be looking at solar as well
I can tell you now my neighbours Givenergy battery looks like an utter abortion and it has to have a shelter cover. We call it the bus stop. TP3 all day long. It’s not even a second of thought required to choose. Tesla is superb, sleek, tidy and so easy to use. I have 2 and it’s fantastic.
My two TPW are fitted side by side, very tidy and sleek, no ugly isolator right next to them and nowhere to be seen. That looks terrible and easily accessible for someone to randomly tamper with? Surely there was a better location for it!?
We would be interested to know what you think of the power-wall III. I believe this integrates several components of a solar/backup and/or virtual power plant contributor system (VPP). Is this correct? Also, I believe the very last remaining coal-powered plant in the UK is to be retired very shortly (other YT video I watched).
Nice one Jordan - you is the man! Sorry for not subscribing to the channel before, but your nudge worked... Anyway, thanks for sharing your insights and knowledge. I'm finishing my L3 C&G and it's great to see what quality looks like. ATB Connor
Unfortunately I am too far away to have you install , particularly when you are in France . However a question , is there anyway of having Tesla batteries as whole house back up rather than having to choose specific circuits to run in the event of off grid ?
In Germany / Switzerland E3DC has a pretty cool system DC side connection, backup power and scalable. Long warranty. Combined with Solarmanager it is the perfect system to optimize Solar usage
I thought that AC coupled batteries with Solar need to switch AC/DC three times at an a loss of 3% for each switch. So a 9% loss. But DC coupled only switches once so loses just 3% It sounds important but I don't think I have heard you mention that as this is all AC coupled? Your thoughts would be appreciated
My 16+ kW Victron system can do everything from all of these system via VRM and free programing ...No limits in Battery storage or input from Wind or Hydro ;) Everything is open to be adjusted, even your solar forkast or wind can help your batteries..
Definatley not tying my Power into the grid or need communication/permissions from them to keep my power on. Grid Assist via EG4/Solark/Victron all the way. about 1/2 the price too.
Very informative video - Thanks. The choice of backup duration has to be an informed choice. I bet there is a tendency to go for over-kill. We live in an area where the power infrastructure is beginning to age. There have been a number instances in the last twelve months where underground cables have faulted (usually exploded) causing outages. If you live a short distance away the actual fault the outages tend to last a couple of minutes with a few further shorter breaks while the DNO tries to isolate the fault to a specific 11kV section and then switch out. You're likely to be without power for 5-10 minutes while they do that. However, if you happen to be unlucky and on the faulty section itself, you could be down for quite a few hours while the exact location is found and then a dig done to conduct a repair. The majority of outages for most people are likely to be due to this kind of fault, either short or a couple of hours. Of course more complex faults may occur (thirty years ago we had a three day outage due to weather induced faults). If you are rural, then your supply may be via overhead cables at some point. You likely suffer more frequent outages. In widespread faults, you could be at the back of a very long queue. The amount of backup or full-home backup you want to pay for needs to consider the rate of faults and the amount of time you want to ensure a partial or full supply for. There seems to me to be little benefit going for massive mount of off-grid time from battery. If you need that, then surely a system that supports a final choice of a generator backup to support critical load, even if it is a plug-in portable geny. That will likely be far cheaper I would have thought although it gives additional equipment needing maintenance. Simply, how much do you want to pay to be immune to edge events?
Hi Jordan Great video once again have you ever thought about using Fox Ess equipment and battery storage they have a wide range of single phase and 3 phase . the KH goes up to 10.5 kW on Single phase with a maximum on ECS 4800 41kw
I thought you needed Eddi to do telemetry? I would have bought Libbi, but I want whole house backup, and I refuse to buy Tesla, so I am looking at Givenergy. Do you know if it has Modbus output? If so, I can integrate it with my Loxone smart home.
A very well presented video packed with useful information. In fact so much information that I'm now even more confused than I was before I watched it ;-) I live in a highly efficient Passivhaus with minimal active heating, and already have a grid-connected 2.6KW PV array - excess power diverts to water heating. There's EV charging to consider as well. So, two big puzzles for me: (1) Is there any point in adding battery storage in the Scottish Highlands? Winter days are *very short* & often overcast, so you wouldn't generate much power to store. In mid-summer it only gets dark for 3-4 hours, when grid power is cheap-rate, so batteries would be semi-redundant. (2) I'm installing a (semi-experimental) micro hydro generator. If I'm lucky it'll generate ~250W for most of the year. If I installed batteries, could I charge them from the hydro generator, as well as from existing PVs? The hydro generator alone may make battery storage more viable. But return on investment would surely be **many years**.
@@farmerpete6274the way things are going here in the UK this is a genuine concern as inequality grows and people become more desperate and frustrated.
Decent(ish) overview. Can’t remember if he mentioned the PW2 is the only temp controlled battery. AIO are only rated for their 13.5KWh storage at room temp. You see people online implementing their own thermal blankets or even heaters to try to stabilise their temp over winter. So far as I know AIOs still aren’t stackable like PW. If you go by some of the horror stories online and several of the installers I’ve spoke to, AIOs have had pretty bad beta software problems. BMS issues with unexplained drops in SoC and need for recal/balance. Updates can be a pain (requiring physical usb sticks to plug in), commissioning can take ages, and I’ve heard lots of installers just regret ever getting involved with AIOs A big big part of your battery/ecosystem choice is the software. Then again, it’s hard to make an impartial informed decision here. Tesla is pretty much, click and forget.
Have to seen the sunsynk 16kw hybrid inverter? Its the one that interests me the most at the moment. I believe it has UPS backup capability and is compatible with lots of different battery systems. Would be great for my house thats got an air to air heat pump and an instant water heater. My fuse box is in an attached brick shed thst doubles as a data closet for me. The pylontech rack mount batteries + this sunsynk inverter next to the fuse box would be a great solution for me. Just need to win a modest amount on the lottery to get it installed 😅
My battery ambitions are to have 20kw of storage at my 3 bed house with a 10Kw inverter so i know i can run the house in a fairly normal fashion between charges. I will use Octopus Go to charge my car and home battery then discharge using the 15p/kwh rate Octopus offer. This is a nice simple model for reducing bill., ensuring some packback and chopping transport costs to about 1/6th compared to my diesel. I am also trying to part DIY the system, so sourcing and speccing myself and getting a competent electritrcian who can put it together for me so the capital costs arent as much as say a TESLA or GivEnergy system. I am looking at 20kw of storage and 10kw inverter delivered to UK for £3500. The specs of the product and the contact i have had from the sales team give me confidence.
Tesla Powerwall 2 current price £8,500 - £9,500 inc. No solar panels. 3 bedroom houses are the most common UK household size and will need 10 to 13 panels (350W) which will cost £9,000 to £12,000 on average. Total cost around £20,000 ?
Another quality video Jordan... I've recently made an enquiry using the open quote application on your website & it is excellent.. Although I have to admit exactly as you suggest due to busy work commitments I've missed a couple calls from you following up.. I'll try get back to you ASAP..
I’d be interested to see more similar videos on the different systems. I went with an enphase battery storage system as due to roof angles solar isn’t really viable. 3* 5kw batteries with total output of 11kva or 18kva for 10 seconds which is huge. 5 micro inverters built into each battery which enables each to run very efficiently at 90% round trip efficiency. Later this year I hope to get the off grid option when they release it and possibly adding a 4th battery which is the maximum.
@@peto22 Difference between peak and octopus go night rates is about 20p/kwh. So assuming my typical 10kwh/day I’m saving around £730/year. If I wanted to save the most money I’d have gone with 2 batteries instead of 3 and the payback would have been about 10 years. However I predict overnight rates will become less attractive as more people get ev’s. As more commercial solar comes online I suspect mornings to shift to become the cheapest times with a lot more support of the likes of octopus agile built into various systems.
IMHO having done lots of research and many calculations the only reason anyone can possibly justify battery storage is as a UPS . We've had one power out in 25 years. Economically it's impossible for anyone to justify a battery storage system especially when you cost it as an investment. I'd love to be persuaded otherwise with actual calculations.
@@edc1569 nobody takes into account the real costs. If you invest the money instead it's eye watering. On one of his videos Jason said he charges £90 or so per hour. My electrician friend is about £33
Fantastic video Jordan and a great insight into battery storage. Having watched the install videos this is a great way to explain the differences in the systems. Top work. Perhaps you could do a video on how you integrate the EV chargers into an island mode system and the nuances of the earthing set ups. 👍🏻👍🏻
Very interesting video, thank you. Just wondering why you fitted a PV generation meter in the GivEnergy installation when there is one already fitted in the Gateway?
Ah ok thanks. I was thinking maybe the apps were finally talking with each other@@artisanelectrics Once the Solaredge bidirectional charger we will get one of those. Can you install in Australia :D
really like your work. i wish more people take pride in their work and expect electricians like myself to spend more time to make the installation look incredible instead of doing it in certain amount of time.
Why do you need a smart meter? I have battery system and my smart meter mostly says + or minus few watts. Because that's how my battery storage systems work
Yes, I agree, you don’t necessarily need a smart meter in order to install a PV/battery system. I’ve had a PV+battery system for a few years now, but can’t get a smart meter as there’s no 4G mobile signal where I live. I’ve got an Economy7 meter, so when the sun doesn’t shine I charge the battery overnight for use during the day. Over this past winter about 90% of my electricity imports have been at the E7 night rate. However, without a smart meter I can’t get any revenue from any excess PV I generate (it just gets exported for free), nor can I take advantage of any of the variable tariff rates being offered by Octopus Energy etc.
So Jordan, you popped over to Asia for a proper break, now you're at a position where you'll be rivalling the likes of Which by next year - producing proper on the ground content! Happy 2024 bud!
Fasttrack normally gives you 3.68 kW as soon as you apply and the DNO acknowledges it. They may then take another 2-12 weeks to give you a full fat export figure permission.
@@nickbea3443the DNO (SSE) replied by email very quickly with options and said i could export 5kw with my 8.6kWp system, but it has been about 9 weeks since everything was submitted with evidence of the install so may be a bit longer still
Yes I am now on my 3rd smart meter all smets 2, since 2019. Why did the previous ones stop, you never find out, different energy suppliers blame the previous installation or say the coms unit fails or say it needs software update. Their solution is always to replace it with another unit often same brand and model.
The idea of the Tesla back up sounds amazing and I’m sure in practice it’s great too. But for the money you shell out for it, surely you don’t have that many power cuts to really benefit from it? I’ve owned two different homes in 7 years and never had a power cut and anyone I know that has, it doesn’t last that long really.
Yeah I think in the UK in many places you're actually exposing yourself to more electrical issues than its going to help you with, once you start adding in gateways and changeover switches these things aren't failure free.
I'm very pleased to see Libbi, GivEnergy and Tesla batteries. All are quality and should be recommended over the low end Chinese rubbish brands that litter the industry!
What's the preferred battery chemistry for whole house backup batteries at the moment? Are the lithium ones still limited by charge cycle degradation if you charge & discharge them daily to take advantage of Economy 7 or other types of plans?
Jordan , Just found your channel , really helpful vid - clear and well presented. THANK YOU. Would be really helpful if you could do a summary of where these key components ( batteries and inverters) are made … I am not alone in trying to avoid ‘Chinese made’ because anything made in China is using coal fired electricity generation - China burnt 4.4bn tonnes of coal in 2023 which is expected to grow by +36 million tonnes in 2024; by contrast U.K. burnt 4.6million and -25% v 2022. Coal is set to be completely phased out in the U.K. from Oct 2024. Soooo the irony of buying Chinese made batteries made using coal to store clean energy is the ultimate oxymoron … Any help on this supply ethics is greatly appreciated - thank you
For these really big PV systems it would be nice to see you get an opportunity to install a C&I battery ESS system rather than expand these smaller home systems to the max.
It’s a little worrying that you install Powerwalls, but get the discharge rate completely wrong. It can discharge continuously at 11kw, not 5kw as you state. I can use the Powerwall alone when using the 10kw electric shower, and have regularly seen it discharge over 10kw continuously. This could put people off the Powerwall (and using your company?) so it would be worth rectifying your mistake.
That all sounds well and fine, but who has that kind of money, from what I’m seeing you have a hundred grand worth of stuff, just so you can run a few lights and maybe a fridge during a power outage. During power outages there is no internet or tv, so no need to even try to run that stuff. Nobody is going to try to run their washer or dryer, or even the dishwasher during a power outage. We live in South Florida and typically lose electric for a couple weeks after hurricanes. We keep a small $500 dollar generator in our shed, that we fire up during outages to keep the fridges on and charge up our flashlights, maybe 5-8 hrs a day, (3-5 gallons of gas per day). Your simply not going to run air conditioning, or pool heaters during that time. We did that for many years and survived just fine. 5 yrs ago we converted our standard Florida home to net zero. We sealed the home, and added insulation, ( cost around $2000 bucks). We added a solar system on the roof, ( cost $20,000 dollars). It’s grid tied, so on a sunny day we generate near twice what we use in electricity, so on rainy days, and at night, we take back and use the excess power we sent back to the grid, ( no storage needed). We don’t pay anyone anything for electricity, ( used to be $400/month). During an outage, we simply disconnect from the grid, ( with a special legal switching system). And during the day while the sun is shining, we generate all the electricity we could ever use, to run everything in the house. Of course there is a small battery bank to obsorb the ups and downs as clouds go over, but it isn’t very big, and didn’t cost $12,000 dollars, ( about 2 grand of lithium batteries in our garage). To get us thru the nights, and cloudy rainy days, we just bought a couple big water tanks and placed in our garage. They were around $200 bucks each at home depot. We added a heat exchanger in the attic, along with a small circulating fan to keep the air moving thru the heat exchanger and ductwork in the house. During the day the sun powers our chiller that cools the water in the tanks down, ( water is a great energy storage medium). The home of course has a regular air to air hvac system, but because of the water cooling system, the run time on the big hvac system is cut in half, ( yes the main hvac system still works via the solar power, but only during the day when the sun is shining). Total cost of that thermal energy system was under $2000 dollars, I built it myself, ( it’s not even close to rocket science, any do it yourself person can build in a few hours). After the sun goes down, the cold water circulates the water thru the system keeping the house comfortable, ( since the main AC can’t run at night. I only need enough battery to keep the circulating fan and the small water pump running until around 10 oclock at night, ( it’s always cool enough in the house by then, were we need nothing, till the next day around 11:00 am. By then with the sun on the panels powering the chillers, the water is cold again, and everything repeats. On cloudy days we don’t need the main ac system, so all the energy from the sun, ( very diminished obviously because of the clouds), is just enough to run only the chillers and a few lights, and keep the battery bank charged. Of course it’s a really rainy day, we break out our little generator, to keep the battery bank charged so everything continues to work. I see all these RUclipsr’s promoting all these energy solutions that cost somewhere between $100-$150 k. My system out does any of those systems, and we only spent $30k in total for everything, converting just a regular everyday Florida home built in the 90’s into a true net zero home. In addition, we can survive just fine thru any power outage. In the winter we convert our water system to heat instead of cold, ( just by flipping a couple valves). We havn’t needed to use any heating in the home at all thru the winter three years in a row now, ( but obviously living in Florida our winters are mild). And no homes down here have natural gas, ( that’s an up north thing), but our solar system could easily power a gas furnace, with maybe a little more battery storage, just enough to keep the blower going. Obviously there is not as much sun up north, so a small generator might still be needed for those really crappy days, ( enough to charge the battery bank every day anyway, but you shouldn’t need 4 powerwalls to do that. I don’t really care what others think, if you have a big bag of money go for it. I’m just saying if your creative, you can come up with your own solutions, don’t follow the shiny object they call solar, and net zero, and just follow like a puppy dog to what some of these people are pushing, ( they make money off of you), way more than you can possibly imagine.
I’m currently testing the best systems out there for three phase as there aren’t many options out there right now especially with backup. Look at SigEnergy they have a great product out there which we will be making a video about in the coming months it includes three phase backup and it even claims to be UPS.
Quick calc: Car battery 12v +- 10v X 100A 6min before flat = 0.1kwH. Thus for 13kwh system need 130 car batteries and all the electronics to do DC to AC and back.
@@pietersmit621 I was referring to EV batteries (400v or 800v) of similar capacity. not 12v which are not usable in the same way as they cannot stand the continuous deep discharge and recharge. Lithium batteries for cars seem very cheap compared with home batteries, and have generally much larger capacities.
@@pietersmit621 According to Statista, the average cost of a lithium-ion EV car battery in 2023 was $139 per kWh. So the prices of home batteries using similar technology are many times this cost. This very high cost makes them very difficult to justify for most home applications.
@@michaelorr7278Which electric vehicles are you comparing home storage batteries with, Michael? I would say the likes of GivEnergy’s 9.5kWh battery compares favorably in terms of cost with the likes of an MG4 64kWh.
@@CastleKnight7 I can buy a year old MG4 for £18,000 and get a 62 kWh battery slightly cheaper per kWh than the GivEngery 9.5kWh price. But I also get a fully functioning car for free including 6 years left on the warranty and the ability to charge bi-directionally. If you compare the cost of the car batteries on their own as spare parts, I can buy a new 100 kWh replacement Li car battery for about £9000 retail. That same £9000 could get me a Tesla Powerwall installed but that only has 13.5 kWh capacity. So my conclusion is that the manufacturers (especially Tesla) are overpricing home batteries by about 8 to 1. GiveEnergy is cheaper than most, I freely admit. If home batteries cost the same per kWh as Lithium car batteries a lot more people would go for them.
Well I'm a 65 year old unemployed but soon to be retired and living in a council 1 bedroom flat and I want battery storage to run off cheap economy 7 or a smart tariff But I use every little electricity in fact on utilita I pay around £500 per year or 1202kWh a year But I suspect cost of installation will be prohibitive as I literally only put about £40 pm on meter! But I still want one
I'd like to do it myself using a battery storage system bought from aliexpress but I don't think Ashfield homes would be impressed lol Although a power wall would be nice or Guv energy I doubt any sort of diy system would be allowed on a council property though
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One of my favourite Artisan videos - Jordan talking to camera teaching us things. I miss the old videos of Jordan on the tools too.
More to come!
Totally agree, one of the best Artisan videos i've watched for a long time. & very educational.
Just diy installed an independant off grid system. 6 panels and 5kwh storage for most things except oven and hob. Consumption gone from 8kwh a day to around 1kwh a day. Use an air fryer rather than an oven! Makes a huge difference.
I've been researching off grid systems and as an electrician apprentice I'm curious to know about yours. May I ask what kit/brand did you use?
@@alip4207 tiger neo panels 435w black. Mpp solar 3624t. Renogy batteries. Scalable. Cables from Amazon and other elec bits from Screwfix. The inverter is noisy so I would deffo mount outside if possible. Mines in a utility room so no issue. I'm using about 80cent of power a day. Good panels and I generate enough for fridge and freezer and home office on overcast and even rainy days.
Yes, "except oven and hob" which use most electricity. Over 24 hours, your solar panels will barely charge your batteries to power your air fryer. Small-scale domestic renewables such as yours are not suitable for heating/cooling anything or for charging large batteries. Your 6 solar panels are quite unproductive as the sun is highly diffuse and at best will only work at one-third of installed capacity. Don't kid yourself.
@@alicat398Do you mind if I ask the approximate cost of the materials?
@@richardjones3112 I think about 3600 euros but panels are much cheaper now. I had to replace one and it was nearly half what the other 5 cost. The typical installed grid connected solution is about 7k with no batteries which I don't think make sense.
One thing about the Tesla that wasn't mentioned if you have solar and that is that the gateway also builds up a memory of usage - amounts, time, etc. it also takes in weather forecasts. For example I have mine set to the Octopus low tariff 00:30 to 04:30. When I first had it installed i was worried when some mornings it hadn't pulled in much power overnight. I ended up speaking with Tesla support in Europe somewhere only to be told that the gateway was smarter than me. Based on the next days anticipated solar it might fill the whole battery or not add anything. Hey ho it's spot on and saves you filling the battery at night only to find that you are exporting solar energy because you forced the battery to charge. There are days when I thought it had got it wrong only for the sun to come out later in the day and fill up the battery. Its brilliant!
That's really interesting to learn! I'm at the start of my journey researching all this, considering just getting a battery to begin with (without solar), do you think that's worthwhile? I'm not discounting solar completely, it's mostly a cost consideration
Well worth the telling, fascinating technology.
Something to consider. If you top up your battery at cheap rate (9p/kwh) and its sunny next day, you immediately start exporting at 15p/kwh (Current Octopus) rather than charging your battery first and then having a shorter export window.
From the (admittedly limited) research I’ve done, one of the big advantages - at least for me - of the GivEnergy vs. Tesla is the ability to control the unit offline using something like GivTCP, rather than relying on the manufacturer’s cloudy platform.
GivTCP can then also be used with something like Home Assistant to run automations you’ve set up.
Does that work entirely locally?
@@edc1569 Yes with Home assistant / Givtcp you can do 100% local control. Add on the amazing "Predbat" and you have some really nice control.
For those on the nerdy side the ability to integrate the storage system into other home control systems is very useful information. I have a givenergy AIO which is linked to homeassisant, that opens up all sorts of weird and wonderful options to divert energy without being tied to a particular eco systems. One example is that in my install when the battery hits 95% state of charge (but only between sunrise and sunset) then the dehumidifier (on a zigbee smart plug) and air conditioning (mitisbushi) turns on in heat/cool mode depending on the time of year and internal temp of the house, those then turn off once the battery hits 100% if the electric car is plugged into the zappi charger and charging via solar divert.
Nice 👌
Yes homeassistant is a massive help to bring all of this tech together. I had difficulty with my Powerwall emptying to fill my car when Intelligent Octopus gave me extra sessions. Set up a routine that if Octopus give me extra cheap energy time slots at 7.5p per kWh, the battery will switch to backup mode and also refill for the cheap price. This allows me to export more solar energy at 15p per kWh.
I also use the MyEnergi Eddi to activate DHW from the ASHP, as it uses 1-2kWh rather than the 6-8 from the Eddi doing direct heat from the immersion heater.
Now that's utilising technology to the fullness. I do like Home Assistant but it's still about nerdy for me to do what you do.
Home Assistant really could do with being made more user friendly interface as it would then get more adopters
Will just have to wait till then hopefully
There are also stand-alone energy management systems. They will give you a more focused UI and configuration.
@@Felix-st2ue Hi Felix Thanks for that.
Can you recommend any please ?
We are happy with our dual powerwall system and the highest load I have seen the house draw from them is just over 7kW (we have gas heating).
I have two Tesla’s installed. I had a Air Sourced Heat Pump installed since. Really made a difference my monthly energy costs (roughly 2/3 less). Worth considering.
That’s what I am installing , not personally , are there any specific points that I should address with installer , I don’t want to find after I want to do this and installer answers well if you told us we could have done so and so .
I already note I have to have critical circuits chosen rather than have whole back up which is annoying , anything else crucial though from your experience?
Hi Jordan, nice video. I am not sure if you do solar panel installation, but could you suggest best panel, battery and invertor to go with 14 panels ideal for dull weather
Am an electrical technician and just finished installing my own solar system, at my house, here in wild Africa. And I think there is now 10 houses with solar in this town. Well, we do not have your fancy systems here at all. Tesla is way to expensive (even for a well-off middle-class family). Electric cars...in about 10 years maybe. Jip, we're watching the world from the sideline. Hope to get involved with some playtime sometime.
Interesting thanks for sharing your perspective
I'm in durban and BYD is here!
Such a shame as you’ve got all that lovely sun power 😛
@@chazprouk Yes!
on my consumer unit, my critical loads are on a separate bus powered from the eps output of the inverter - but critically I included a bypass switch, which allows maintenance or failure of the inverter to keep my critical loads running directly from the grid - which most sparks seem to completely overlook
How long do you have to wait for a return on investment with a battery system in the UK? Here in Finland, the battery's payback period is longer than the battery's estimated lifetime.
It'd be much less here, we're pretty much double the price you are but we can get overnight rates that are a quarter of the normal rate.
If you just charge it off-peak and use it during the day, you can save about 20p/kWh. So a 5kwh battery could save you £1 per day, £365 per year. The cheaper 5kWh batteries (pylontech, dyness) are about £1000, so just that part of the system could pay for itself in about 3 years. A more expensive battery would be about 5 years.
That's not including the inverter, assuming you're fitting that as part of a solar system, and the cost of the installation.
10y+ unless you're running an EV.
Em Portugal, depois de muitas contas, e atendendo ao meu perfil de consumo… o retorno é sempre a volta dos 10anos. Ter painéis solares compensa, 3 e o número que a matemática aponta, 4 será perfeito. O resto… não consigo justificar para mim
With the new BS PAS 63100 Installing batteries in a loft is now a no no. It also makes it difficult to install them anywhere within a house, and from how I read them even an integral garage.
Looks like they will have to be on external walls or detached buildings.
Hi, great informative video!
Currently I have a large garden shed with solar panels, and I generate some good really power, particularly in summer.
I'm now looking to store some of that power for the days when there's less sun.
I have an Alpha ESS Smile B3, with 2.9 kWh battery storage.
I don't know anything at all about the unit and was wondering if I could just use this for simple storage and plug an extension lead into it?
I don't need to export any power to the house, it's just for ad-hoc use in my shed.
Hope you can advise on this.
Many thanks.
Great job and very detailed and important information 😊 Thanks a lot. EG from Portugal
to communicate with the ev charger, does it use OCPP? does it need to connect to the charger or over wifi?
Hi
Very informative video.
I'm going for a full Enphase based AC coupled solution with 2x Battery 5P
The solar panels are designed exclusively for Enphase Microinverters, so I think it will be one of the best integrated solutions that suits my needs!
Emergency power supply and Battery back-up are things that will be available in the future with the Enphase solution for the UK (lagging behind US etc).
Like your work - everything is done neatly and to spec. - would have asked you to quote but we are a long way away!
Keep up the great work - you are a great example to the industry
A bit late to this video I know but just a question. If my home is connected to the grid and I wanted a battery back up installed, would that not increase my energy usage initially to charge up the batteries?
With the give energy 13.5kwh, what happens if I have several high usage appliances on, like the oven, tumble drier, washing machine, so higher than 6 kWh in total on at the same time, is the give energy smart enough to use the 6kwh from the battery and supply the excess from the mains, or do I have to separate the appliances onto separate feeds?
Great video. I recently attended a talk about the grid setup and you’d be surprised how long it takes to adjust the power output from coal/biofuel stations. It often takes weeks. It’s gas which is used to adjust for variations in load during the day as it’s the only method where the power output can be changed quickly enough. That’s where battery storage systems really help.
Thanks for the info!
From my understanding this is not 100% correct, heavy generators and flywheels are normally used for frequency stabilisation, the momentum prevents jitter.
Peaker plants eg. Gas are there to supply peak loads, but not grid frequently stabilisation.
Battery systems can now do both, peak load supply, and frequently stabilisation.
@@pietersmit621 I think Gas has fairly heavy synchronous connection. Almost no coal and basically just Drax online for traditional baseload now.
Ratcliffe on Soar coal fired power station is switching off , at long last, THIS SEPTEMBER 2024 … believe it or be the last UK coal Fired power station - FYI IT WAS DUE TO CLOSE YEARS AGO BUT DUE TO PUTIN’S INVASION OF UKRAINE & SUBSEQUENT ENERGY CRISIS IT WAS KEPT OPEN LONGER …
FYI Coal is circa 1% of U.K generation over past 12 months
Thank you so much for this extensive and informative video!
I’m looking to add solar, battery storage and EV charger and this has answered so many questions I had!
I’m glad I found you on RUclips and have subscribed, so that I can keep up to date.
Keep up the great work!!
Good luck , make sure to use reputable installer not the cheapest . I did my system last year along with heat pump and switched to ev . Now only gas cooker left and I will be full electric. I used GivEnergy not Tesla
How much do these batteries cost to run after taking into account conversion losses? For example some have heaters and cooling fans, Gateways monitor and control them - all takes power.
I’d say your first step in planning for either or both of solar and batteries is to install a monitoring system like Open Energy Monitor so you can discover what your usage patterns really are before investing in something that is incorrectly sized.
Having accurate usage data certainly helps massively in sizing the right storage system
Data from a smart meter is good enough, there are ways you can get the half hourly data, or use loop app.
Superb video !! We moving soon down to the south coast and are looking at getting solar panels with battery. This video helped a lot
Hello Jordan, nice video, but how are you address the people who cannot afford complete systems. Do you have a plan for people to build up a system over 5 to 10 years? So that these people can do it piece meal style. Do you offer this kind of service to people so they too can see way to get to net zero?
Ahh Another great Artisan Electrics video
Do you leave the pme connected earth in place when you add the earth electrode or are you removing that and relying solely on the T.T? I seem to recall a video Cory did a short while back where he had an off grid set up but removed the TNC-S and used the T.T only.
We combine both it’s the reccomended method for most setups
Any thoughts on the specs of the Tesla PW3? I understand the power output will be much higher.
how long does it take too get a return on investment of batteries and solar panels ??
Nice video as usual, do enphase deserve a mention? just had installed with battery great bit of kit no back up yet though they supposed to be releasing later this year and there latest car charger over in the US can do car to home which is a game changer if you invest in a EV and don't need to have a large set of battery's
Yes they do, we have a video on Enphase systems coming…
@artisanelectrics Thank you for another great video! But I was not able to determine from the video: Is the Tesla whole house backup a 3 phase system? Or how can a 3 phase whole house backup system be implemented? Thank you in advance.
Tesla backup will only cover one phase - very few three phase backup systems exist currently but we will be reviewing one on the channel soon
I have 2 PW2s stacked because of available space on the external wall. In your example would it not have been possible to leave space to the right for a second unit?
Can you fit a full system ie solar panels, battery etc in Northampton and are you able to fit Tesla Powerwall 3 yet?
I'm having a Powerwall 2 fitted but when I asked about a Powerwall 3, was advised that the grid will not accept them as they are too powerful or something. Happy to go with the 2 so I did not take a note of the query with the 3. However I guess this could change!
I am in Far North Queensland, Australia. I have 13kw solar and a 16kw Goodwe battery system.
We generally use about 800Wph through the night. That lasts us through the night.
We generally have a full charge by 1pm. Plus its a cold start (does not need mains to start inverter) and will power us during a mains outage.
As we have cyclones its good to keep us running.
Awesome
Good morning, I’m looking at a battery system, was looking at giv energy battery system but also seen the new Tesla Powerwall 3 battery system, which system is better?, down the line will be looking at solar as well
I can tell you now my neighbours Givenergy battery looks like an utter abortion and it has to have a shelter cover. We call it the bus stop. TP3 all day long. It’s not even a second of thought required to choose. Tesla is superb, sleek, tidy and so easy to use. I have 2 and it’s fantastic.
My two TPW are fitted side by side, very tidy and sleek, no ugly isolator right next to them and nowhere to be seen. That looks terrible and easily accessible for someone to randomly tamper with? Surely there was a better location for it!?
I’ve been looking at the FranklinWH it allows a generator to be attached. I have solar and a wind turbine. I want both attached to the battery system.
Can you fit a Tesla power wall in a cupboard in an apartment?
The consumer unit is located in the cupboard, and has enough physical space etc
We would be interested to know what you think of the power-wall III. I believe this integrates several components of a solar/backup and/or virtual power plant contributor system (VPP). Is this correct?
Also, I believe the very last remaining coal-powered plant in the UK is to be retired very shortly (other YT video I watched).
Those installations look really smart. I always point people to your channel about solar ;) Great work and thanks for sharing
Thanks a lot
Nice one Jordan - you is the man! Sorry for not subscribing to the channel before, but your nudge worked... Anyway, thanks for sharing your insights and knowledge. I'm finishing my L3 C&G and it's great to see what quality looks like. ATB Connor
DC Coupled will charge the battery from the panels if the grid feed fails (island mode)
Unfortunately I am too far away to have you install , particularly when you are in France .
However a question , is there anyway of having Tesla batteries as whole house back up rather than having to choose specific circuits to run in the event of off grid ?
Thanks
Thank you!
Great video Jordan very informative 👍🏻
Glad you liked it!
In Germany / Switzerland E3DC has a pretty cool system DC side connection, backup power and scalable. Long warranty. Combined with Solarmanager it is the perfect system to optimize Solar usage
I thought that AC coupled batteries with Solar need to switch AC/DC three times at an a loss of 3% for each switch. So a 9% loss.
But DC coupled only switches once so loses just 3%
It sounds important but I don't think I have heard you mention that as this is all AC coupled?
Your thoughts would be appreciated
My 16+ kW Victron system can do everything from all of these system via VRM and free programing ...No limits in Battery storage or input from Wind or Hydro ;)
Everything is open to be adjusted, even your solar forkast or wind can help your batteries..
Definatley not tying my Power into the grid or need communication/permissions from them to keep my power on. Grid Assist via EG4/Solark/Victron all the way. about 1/2 the price too.
Very informative video - Thanks.
The choice of backup duration has to be an informed choice. I bet there is a tendency to go for over-kill.
We live in an area where the power infrastructure is beginning to age. There have been a number instances in the last twelve months where underground cables have faulted (usually exploded) causing outages.
If you live a short distance away the actual fault the outages tend to last a couple of minutes with a few further shorter breaks while the DNO tries to isolate the fault to a specific 11kV section and then switch out. You're likely to be without power for 5-10 minutes while they do that. However, if you happen to be unlucky and on the faulty section itself, you could be down for quite a few hours while the exact location is found and then a dig done to conduct a repair. The majority of outages for most people are likely to be due to this kind of fault, either short or a couple of hours. Of course more complex faults may occur (thirty years ago we had a three day outage due to weather induced faults).
If you are rural, then your supply may be via overhead cables at some point. You likely suffer more frequent outages. In widespread faults, you could be at the back of a very long queue.
The amount of backup or full-home backup you want to pay for needs to consider the rate of faults and the amount of time you want to ensure a partial or full supply for.
There seems to me to be little benefit going for massive mount of off-grid time from battery. If you need that, then surely a system that supports a final choice of a generator backup to support critical load, even if it is a plug-in portable geny. That will likely be far cheaper I would have thought although it gives additional equipment needing maintenance.
Simply, how much do you want to pay to be immune to edge events?
So if you have 2 Tesla batteries can you then have the cooker installed on the backup ?
Hi Jordan Great video once again have you ever thought about using Fox Ess equipment and battery storage they have a wide range of single phase and 3 phase . the KH goes up to 10.5 kW on Single phase with a maximum on ECS 4800 41kw
I thought you needed Eddi to do telemetry? I would have bought Libbi, but I want whole house backup, and I refuse to buy Tesla, so I am looking at Givenergy. Do you know if it has Modbus output? If so, I can integrate it with my Loxone smart home.
A very well presented video packed with useful information. In fact so much information that I'm now even more confused than I was before I watched it ;-)
I live in a highly efficient Passivhaus with minimal active heating, and already have a grid-connected 2.6KW PV array - excess power diverts to water heating. There's EV charging to consider as well. So, two big puzzles for me:
(1) Is there any point in adding battery storage in the Scottish Highlands? Winter days are *very short* & often overcast, so you wouldn't generate much power to store. In mid-summer it only gets dark for 3-4 hours, when grid power is cheap-rate, so batteries would be semi-redundant.
(2) I'm installing a (semi-experimental) micro hydro generator. If I'm lucky it'll generate ~250W for most of the year. If I installed batteries, could I charge them from the hydro generator, as well as from existing PVs? The hydro generator alone may make battery storage more viable. But return on investment would surely be **many years**.
How about modular batteries?
What stops someone rocking up at night and removing your Power wall, is there any serial lock that's registered with the installer.
with a Powerwall 2 at 110 kilos or so, they'd have to be fit!
@@farmerpete6274the way things are going here in the UK this is a genuine concern as inequality grows and people become more desperate and frustrated.
Decent(ish) overview.
Can’t remember if he mentioned the PW2 is the only temp controlled battery.
AIO are only rated for their 13.5KWh storage at room temp. You see people online implementing their own thermal blankets or even heaters to try to stabilise their temp over winter.
So far as I know AIOs still aren’t stackable like PW.
If you go by some of the horror stories online and several of the installers I’ve spoke to, AIOs have had pretty bad beta software problems. BMS issues with unexplained drops in SoC and need for recal/balance.
Updates can be a pain (requiring physical usb sticks to plug in), commissioning can take ages, and I’ve heard lots of installers just regret ever getting involved with AIOs
A big big part of your battery/ecosystem choice is the software.
Then again, it’s hard to make an impartial informed decision here.
Tesla is pretty much, click and forget.
Are you talking about a Tesla gen 2 with 5 kw output? I think gen 3 is much larger
Have to seen the sunsynk 16kw hybrid inverter? Its the one that interests me the most at the moment. I believe it has UPS backup capability and is compatible with lots of different battery systems.
Would be great for my house thats got an air to air heat pump and an instant water heater.
My fuse box is in an attached brick shed thst doubles as a data closet for me. The pylontech rack mount batteries + this sunsynk inverter next to the fuse box would be a great solution for me. Just need to win a modest amount on the lottery to get it installed 😅
Good install with the Tesla Powerwall except the battery is less than 1 metre from a dwelling doorway so does not comply with BSI PAS 63100
My battery ambitions are to have 20kw of storage at my 3 bed house with a 10Kw inverter so i know i can run the house in a fairly normal fashion between charges.
I will use Octopus Go to charge my car and home battery then discharge using the 15p/kwh rate Octopus offer. This is a nice simple model for reducing bill., ensuring some packback and chopping transport costs to about 1/6th compared to my diesel.
I am also trying to part DIY the system, so sourcing and speccing myself and getting a competent electritrcian who can put it together for me so the capital costs arent as much as say a TESLA or GivEnergy system.
I am looking at 20kw of storage and 10kw inverter delivered to UK for £3500. The specs of the product and the contact i have had from the sales team give me confidence.
Tesla Powerwall 2 current price £8,500 - £9,500 inc. No solar panels. 3 bedroom houses are the most common UK household size and will need 10 to 13 panels (350W) which will cost £9,000 to £12,000 on average. Total cost around £20,000 ?
I just got a quote for a 7kw solar array and a 13kw Givenergy battery installed for a little over £15,000.
Another quality video Jordan...
I've recently made an enquiry using the open quote application on your website & it is excellent.. Although I have to admit exactly as you suggest due to busy work commitments I've missed a couple calls from you following up..
I'll try get back to you ASAP..
Fantastic!
I’d be interested to see more similar videos on the different systems. I went with an enphase battery storage system as due to roof angles solar isn’t really viable. 3* 5kw batteries with total output of 11kva or 18kva for 10 seconds which is huge. 5 micro inverters built into each battery which enables each to run very efficiently at 90% round trip efficiency. Later this year I hope to get the off grid option when they release it and possibly adding a 4th battery which is the maximum.
How long do you have to wait for a return on investment with a battery system?
@@peto22 Difference between peak and octopus go night rates is about 20p/kwh. So assuming my typical 10kwh/day I’m saving around £730/year. If I wanted to save the most money I’d have gone with 2 batteries instead of 3 and the payback would have been about 10 years.
However I predict overnight rates will become less attractive as more people get ev’s. As more commercial solar comes online I suspect mornings to shift to become the cheapest times with a lot more support of the likes of octopus agile built into various systems.
An excellent video. I learnt so much, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
IMHO having done lots of research and many calculations the only reason anyone can possibly justify battery storage is as a UPS . We've had one power out in 25 years.
Economically it's impossible for anyone to justify a battery storage system especially when you cost it as an investment.
I'd love to be persuaded otherwise with actual calculations.
Problem is a lot of installers and companies have been milking things a bit, if you get the price down they do make sense.
@@edc1569 nobody takes into account the real costs. If you invest the money instead it's eye watering.
On one of his videos Jason said he charges £90 or so per hour. My electrician friend is about £33
By using your solar power 24/7 instead of exporting it, or buying it all off peak you can easily save £1000 per year
Buying energy for 6 hours at 7.5p/kWh to use during the day, instead of paying 26.5p.
@@barriedear5990 I don't pay that. Tracker is running at 17p or so on average
Excellent
Another great video from Artisan...
Is it possible to isolate the EV chargers from batteries to ensure it never charges the EV from the battery?
Excallent overview and great story teling
Fantastic video Jordan and a great insight into battery storage. Having watched the install videos this is a great way to explain the differences in the systems. Top work. Perhaps you could do a video on how you integrate the EV chargers into an island mode system and the nuances of the earthing set ups. 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks glad your enjoyed it and appreciate the suggestions for future video ideas
Very interesting video, thank you. Just wondering why you fitted a PV generation meter in the GivEnergy installation when there is one already fitted in the Gateway?
Does Zappi talk with Solaredge?
Yes via CTs the Zappi can see what is being generated by the inverters and charge the car accordingly.
Ah ok thanks. I was thinking maybe the apps were finally talking with each other@@artisanelectrics Once the Solaredge bidirectional charger we will get one of those. Can you install in Australia :D
really like your work. i wish more people take pride in their work and expect electricians like myself to spend more time to make the installation look incredible instead of doing it in certain amount of time.
Why do you need a smart meter? I have battery system and my smart meter mostly says + or minus few watts. Because that's how my battery storage systems work
Yes, I agree, you don’t necessarily need a smart meter in order to install a PV/battery system. I’ve had a PV+battery system for a few years now, but can’t get a smart meter as there’s no 4G mobile signal where I live. I’ve got an Economy7 meter, so when the sun doesn’t shine I charge the battery overnight for use during the day. Over this past winter about 90% of my electricity imports have been at the E7 night rate. However, without a smart meter I can’t get any revenue from any excess PV I generate (it just gets exported for free), nor can I take advantage of any of the variable tariff rates being offered by Octopus Energy etc.
Export payments.
Fire detection and sprinkler system.
Thank you host for sharing your work experience, I hope there will be a translation of traditional Chinese, thank 🙂🙏🙏
So Jordan, you popped over to Asia for a proper break, now you're at a position where you'll be rivalling the likes of Which by next year - producing proper on the ground content! Happy 2024 bud!
How long on average does the G99 take to come through?
Anywhere from 24 hours to 45 working days
In my experience tho usually within 2 weeks but that’s only because UKPN are fantastic
@@artisanelectricsGreat thanks, i have been waiting for 2 months, but this is SSE so not sure how quick they are 😀
Fasttrack normally gives you 3.68 kW as soon as you apply and the DNO acknowledges it. They may then take another 2-12 weeks to give you a full fat export figure permission.
@@nickbea3443the DNO (SSE) replied by email very quickly with options and said i could export 5kw with my 8.6kWp system, but it has been about 9 weeks since everything was submitted with evidence of the install so may be a bit longer still
The first thing is to get your smart meter to work. Easier said than done: mine has been offline for over 4 years.
Yes I am now on my 3rd smart meter all smets 2, since 2019. Why did the previous ones stop, you never find out, different energy suppliers blame the previous installation or say the coms unit fails or say it needs software update. Their solution is always to replace it with another unit often same brand and model.
Amazing technology 😊
The idea of the Tesla back up sounds amazing and I’m sure in practice it’s great too. But for the money you shell out for it, surely you don’t have that many power cuts to really benefit from it? I’ve owned two different homes in 7 years and never had a power cut and anyone I know that has, it doesn’t last that long really.
Yeah I think in the UK in many places you're actually exposing yourself to more electrical issues than its going to help you with, once you start adding in gateways and changeover switches these things aren't failure free.
My house battery dumps into the car, I wish it didn't but I have no idea how to stop it.
With lithium batteries just remember they do best in a cool dry place where they will not be subject to impacts
Taking from the grid is easier than sending in back to them
Great informative vlog. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I just had a bid for a 7kw solar array and 13kw battery installed for £15000
The oceans are getting salty, ice and snow ❄️🌨️ are landing on the poles
GREAT REVIEW OF INFORMATION. DETROIT
I'm very pleased to see Libbi, GivEnergy and Tesla batteries. All are quality and should be recommended over the low end Chinese rubbish brands that litter the industry!
Isn’t Libbi a chinesium brand under another brand?
What's the preferred battery chemistry for whole house backup batteries at the moment? Are the lithium ones still limited by charge cycle degradation if you charge & discharge them daily to take advantage of Economy 7 or other types of plans?
LFP
Jordan , Just found your channel , really helpful vid - clear and well presented. THANK YOU.
Would be really helpful if you could do a summary of where these key components ( batteries and inverters) are made … I am not alone in trying to avoid ‘Chinese made’ because anything made in China is using coal fired electricity generation - China burnt 4.4bn tonnes of coal in 2023 which is expected to grow by +36 million tonnes in 2024; by contrast U.K. burnt 4.6million and -25% v 2022. Coal is set to be completely phased out in the U.K. from Oct 2024.
Soooo the irony of buying Chinese made batteries made using coal to store clean energy is the ultimate oxymoron …
Any help on this supply ethics is greatly appreciated - thank you
For these really big PV systems it would be nice to see you get an opportunity to install a C&I battery ESS system rather than expand these smaller home systems to the max.
Yeah it’s a challenge for projects of this scale which fall in between domestic and commercial really
It’s a little worrying that you install Powerwalls, but get the discharge rate completely wrong. It can discharge continuously at 11kw, not 5kw as you state. I can use the Powerwall alone when using the 10kw electric shower, and have regularly seen it discharge over 10kw continuously. This could put people off the Powerwall (and using your company?) so it would be worth rectifying your mistake.
Nice install - Shame about all the external cables.
That all sounds well and fine, but who has that kind of money, from what I’m seeing you have a hundred grand worth of stuff, just so you can run a few lights and maybe a fridge during a power outage. During power outages there is no internet or tv, so no need to even try to run that stuff. Nobody is going to try to run their washer or dryer, or even the dishwasher during a power outage.
We live in South Florida and typically lose electric for a couple weeks after hurricanes. We keep a small $500 dollar generator in our shed, that we fire up during outages to keep the fridges on and charge up our flashlights, maybe 5-8 hrs a day, (3-5 gallons of gas per day).
Your simply not going to run air conditioning, or pool heaters during that time.
We did that for many years and survived just fine.
5 yrs ago we converted our standard Florida home to net zero. We sealed the home, and added insulation, ( cost around $2000 bucks).
We added a solar system on the roof, ( cost $20,000 dollars). It’s grid tied, so on a sunny day we generate near twice what we use in electricity, so on rainy days, and at night, we take back and use the excess power we sent back to the grid, ( no storage needed). We don’t pay anyone anything for electricity, ( used to be $400/month).
During an outage, we simply disconnect from the grid, ( with a special legal switching system). And during the day while the sun is shining, we generate all the electricity we could ever use, to run everything in the house. Of course there is a small battery bank to obsorb the ups and downs as clouds go over, but it isn’t very big, and didn’t cost $12,000 dollars, ( about 2 grand of lithium batteries in our garage).
To get us thru the nights, and cloudy rainy days, we just bought a couple big water tanks and placed in our garage. They were around $200 bucks each at home depot.
We added a heat exchanger in the attic, along with a small circulating fan to keep the air moving thru the heat exchanger and ductwork in the house. During the day the sun powers our chiller that cools the water in the tanks down, ( water is a great energy storage medium).
The home of course has a regular air to air hvac system, but because of the water cooling system, the run time on the big hvac system is cut in half, ( yes the main hvac system still works via the solar power, but only during the day when the sun is shining). Total cost of that thermal energy system was under $2000 dollars, I built it myself, ( it’s not even close to rocket science, any do it yourself person can build in a few hours).
After the sun goes down, the cold water circulates the water thru the system keeping the house comfortable, ( since the main AC can’t run at night. I only need enough battery to keep the circulating fan and the small water pump running until around 10 oclock at night, ( it’s always cool enough in the house by then, were we need nothing, till the next day around 11:00 am. By then with the sun on the panels powering the chillers, the water is cold again, and everything repeats. On cloudy days we don’t need the main ac system, so all the energy from the sun, ( very diminished obviously because of the clouds), is just enough to run only the chillers and a few lights, and keep the battery bank charged.
Of course it’s a really rainy day, we break out our little generator, to keep the battery bank charged so everything continues to work.
I see all these RUclipsr’s promoting all these energy solutions that cost somewhere between $100-$150 k. My system out does any of those systems, and we only spent $30k in total for everything, converting just a regular everyday Florida home built in the 90’s into a true net zero home. In addition, we can survive just fine thru any power outage. In the winter we convert our water system to heat instead of cold, ( just by flipping a couple valves). We havn’t needed to use any heating in the home at all thru the winter three years in a row now, ( but obviously living in Florida our winters are mild). And no homes down here have natural gas, ( that’s an up north thing), but our solar system could easily power a gas furnace, with maybe a little more battery storage, just enough to keep the blower going. Obviously there is not as much sun up north, so a small generator might still be needed for those really crappy days, ( enough to charge the battery bank every day anyway, but you shouldn’t need 4 powerwalls to do that.
I don’t really care what others think, if you have a big bag of money go for it. I’m just saying if your creative, you can come up with your own solutions, don’t follow the shiny object they call solar, and net zero, and just follow like a puppy dog to what some of these people are pushing, ( they make money off of you), way more than you can possibly imagine.
TL;DR.
Keep your lithium in a cool dry place
What battery would you recommend for a 3 phase house? Would be good to have full backup on all 3 phases.
I’m currently testing the best systems out there for three phase as there aren’t many options out there right now especially with backup. Look at SigEnergy they have a great product out there which we will be making a video about in the coming months it includes three phase backup and it even claims to be UPS.
Enphase
Senec v3
Why are home battery systems so expensive per kWh compared with car batteries of similar capacity?
Quick calc: Car battery 12v +- 10v X 100A 6min before flat = 0.1kwH.
Thus for 13kwh system need 130 car batteries and all the electronics to do DC to AC and back.
@@pietersmit621 I was referring to EV batteries (400v or 800v) of similar capacity. not 12v which are not usable in the same way as they cannot stand the continuous deep discharge and recharge. Lithium batteries for cars seem very cheap compared with home batteries, and have generally much larger capacities.
@@pietersmit621 According to Statista, the average cost of a lithium-ion EV car battery in 2023 was $139 per kWh. So the prices of home batteries using similar technology are many times this cost. This very high cost makes them very difficult to justify for most home applications.
@@michaelorr7278Which electric vehicles are you comparing home storage batteries with, Michael? I would say the likes of GivEnergy’s 9.5kWh battery compares favorably in terms of cost with the likes of an MG4 64kWh.
@@CastleKnight7 I can buy a year old MG4 for £18,000 and get a 62 kWh battery slightly cheaper per kWh than the GivEngery 9.5kWh price. But I also get a fully functioning car for free including 6 years left on the warranty and the ability to charge bi-directionally. If you compare the cost of the car batteries on their own as spare parts, I can buy a new 100 kWh replacement Li car battery for about £9000 retail. That same £9000 could get me a Tesla Powerwall installed but that only has 13.5 kWh capacity. So my conclusion is that the manufacturers (especially Tesla) are overpricing home batteries by about 8 to 1. GiveEnergy is cheaper than most, I freely admit. If home batteries cost the same per kWh as Lithium car batteries a lot more people would go for them.
Good information.
Glad you enjoyed it!
All great if u can afford them then afford Artisan to install afterwards.
Well I'm a 65 year old unemployed but soon to be retired and living in a council 1 bedroom flat and I want battery storage to run off cheap economy 7 or a smart tariff
But I use every little electricity in fact on utilita I pay around £500 per year or 1202kWh a year
But I suspect cost of installation will be prohibitive as I literally only put about £40 pm on meter!
But I still want one
I'd like to do it myself using a battery storage system bought from aliexpress but I don't think Ashfield homes would be impressed lol
Although a power wall would be nice or Guv energy
I doubt any sort of diy system would be allowed on a council property though