Can You Beat Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones With ONLY Saleh?
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Saleh might look good on paper, but what about practically? Can Ewan's teacher beat FE8 all on his own? Well with the worst growths in the game, it might actually be a problem, find out in this Saleh Solo Run if you can beat FE8 using only Saleh!
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🎮 ABOUT THE GAME 🎮
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones is a tactical role-playing game developed by Intelligent Systems, and published by Nintendo for the Game Boy Advance handheld video game console in 2004 for Japan and 2005 in the West. It is the eighth entry in the Fire Emblem series, the second to be released outside Japan, and the third and final title to be developed for the Game Boy Advance after The Binding Blade and its prequel Fire Emblem.
Set in a separate continuity to earlier Fire Emblem titles, The Sacred Stones takes place on the fictional continent of Magvel, which is divided into five nations, each built around a magical stone said to be linked to the imprisonment of an ancient demon. When one of the five nations, the Grado Empire, invades its neighbours and begins destroying the stones, protagonists Eirika and Ephraim of the royal family of Renais set out to gather allies and halt Grado's conquest, while also trying to uncover the reasons for the war. The gameplay is similar to previous Fire Emblem games, focusing on turn-based, tactical movement of units across a grid-based battlefield. Core features of the game include permanent death for characters defeated in battle and support conversations that grant advantages to certain units in battle.
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#fireemblem #fireemblemsacredstones #fireemblemengage #tacticalrpg #nintendo #nintendoswitch #nintendonews #fireemblemawakening #challengerun #nintendo #intelligentsystems #sacredstones #hardmode #fireemblemchallenges #jrpg #gaming #rpg #gaming
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📜 ABOUT THE CONTENT 📜
KratosMVN is a Fire Emblem content creator here on RUclips, who has a deep love for the franchise. His main content on this channel will focus on solo runs and challenge runs of all kinds spanning over the entire Fire Emblem franchise. He held a deep love of Fire Emblem since his childhood when he first played Sacred Stones on his Gameboy SP. He remembers with fondness those long rides in the car just spent trying over and over again to make sure none of his beloved party members would perish... unless it was Knoll.
This video is similar to those of Jrose11, JRPG Jungle, and Faerghast in parts while Kratos also draws inspiration from Northenlion and Ludwig.
Title: Can You Beat Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones With ONLY Saleh?
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Did you think I was too harsh in the ranking of Saleh???
Check out the merch here: www.bonfire.com/store/kratosmvn-store/?
Yeah, I'd have ranked him way higher. Probably 4th; he cleared the game in fewer turns and less time with the same number of resets as Forde. I guess it just kind of depends on how much you want to reward a super simple early game vs. punish the endgame struggle.
That first Saleh was awful though, my goodness.
No, I think it is mostly fair. Dozla also had a really quick completion timer and relatively few turns, but still got in the middle for a similar-ish reason.
Not really too harsh, I would'e put him higher, but only because of how easy chapter 18 was, and because no difficulty before the ending. Also, this was true for the BAD Saleh fo the first attempt, so clearly that's consistent. Yet, the fact that if you get bad level ups could very well make it impossible to win solo, might be good enough to put him a bit down. I honestly don't like or dislike him any, he's completely forgetable, so although I'd rank things differently, I'm fine with your choice.
Yes.
Yo
Try out fire emblem: dark stone
It's sacred stones but you play as lyon + bosses also rewritten story
Cool run! Saleh not growing at all is definitely rough
I think an interesting prepromote to use would be Syrene! Syrene is both a prepromote AND a unit with great growths, she's kind of a late game training project meant to be used on the eggs
I'm very much awaiting Syrene, I think she'll have a very unique performance that'll surprise people.
@kratosmvn_ Considering how she's usually considered, I'm hoping this means the surprise will be a good one 👀
@@kratosmvn_ I mean, she is a flyer.....That makes her already OP.....
How much we value an easy 95% of the game versus the endgame is one of the biggest challenges of unit rankings. Though assigning numbers to rank Fire Emblem is surprisingly difficult in general.
There are so many factors to think about and everyone favours things differently.
@@kratosmvn_ I think adding in a row for number of times reset against the demon king would help to show more concrete date for this.
Cant wait for that Gerik Mercenary/Hero run
It will be epic!
@@kratosmvn_ Yes sir!
@@kratosmvn_ nahhh your ass had better make him a ranger
Looking forward for the neimi run, myself ✨
Meanwhile I can't wait for his Ewan run.
“Mom can I have Pent?”
“We have Pent at home.”
Pent at home:
😂😂
It's so interesting to see the differences in the two Saleh's, and how much of a difference that stuff can make.
Also I kinda dig the vibes based list, the stats are there if people want to know but I think it is cool and makes sense that the actual ranking is based on your experience playing it
Yeah growths in these types of run is SUPER important.
Ultimately, I'll keep vibes based on how the run felt to me because that's more genuine to me. If I wanted to make this scientific at all I'd have to do 100s of runs to get semi accurate data and I don't want to do that lol
It'll probably be fine. He's a mage, without the early game squishiness of standard mages. And still way stronger than a standard mage. Endgame I guess he is still fine. Most likely.
The main problem was his endgame.
Thanks for the vid, glad solo runs are back :3
Thank you!
I do wonder if Creature Campaign are eligible. Would be cool to see Caellach or Selena.
Maybe once I'm done with the main cast!
Would you consider adding FE7 units in the FE8 solo run? I wonder how Pent, the superior Saleh, would do.
Hell, even Nino might do better in FE8 because not every boss has crazy resistance except for Lyon and Demon King
We gotta use Gonzales. I want to see him in a run like this
Imagine a fe8 solo run with fe6 sophia
I've thought about doing FE7 units maybe at some point
Or Roy solo run (maybe promoting at the same time that Erika and Ephraim do), or a Lowen solo, though honestly thanks to his mediocre offensive stats it'll pretty difficult for him to take down the demon king
i cant hear excalibur without think of soul eater.
"Excalibur! Excalibur! From the United K! I'm looking for heaven! I'm going to California!"
I've never watched Soul Eater, but that is an interesting line of dialogue.
Excalibur is for sure the best character in fiction
@@kratosmvn_just to clarify, Excalibur is a joke character in Soul Eater, being the strongest weapon in the series but he's so annoying nobody uses him
Been loving your FE solo runs. Sacred Stones was my first FE game coming around my time playing Advance Wars, so just really enjoying the nostalgia. Now we still have to wait for a solo run of Seth.
Thank you I'm glad you're enjoying. The Seth Solo will be very fun I bet.
@@kratosmvn_ No doubt as while he is the "Jegan" of the game, he can certainly hold his own from start to finish.
Well that was certainly an interesting run. I would have given up on the first Saleh much sooner I think because I would have been annoyed. Or I would have turned out stubborn like you now that I think about it.
Nice merche
But if Sacred Stones hates you. What does FE7 do? Or Eliwood to be more precise.
The Lyon Saleh name switch was confusing but funny. Honesty I think you said Lyon so often to explain the Saleh situation that your brain mixed them up so thats understandable.
Weird question on the side why are some member names in the end purple? Just curious.
Anyways great work on the solorun
I should have probably given up on Saleh much sooner to be fair lol
Heck yeah!
Eliwood hates me WAAYY more lol
The purple names are for tier 2/3 members.
Thank you :D
Great vid as always mate. Fun to see Discount Pent live up to his full potential
Discount Pent did Discount Pent things, thanks man I appreciate it!
0:55 Comparing Saleh to Pent, that got a good chuckle out of me. Saleh is Ron Weasly compared to Pents Harry Potter - still competent but nowhere near as good
😂
What? Saleh has slightly better growths (not that important), comes early (in Eirika route) with almost the same stats as Pent but 5 levels lower and is in an even easier game making the stat difference moot. The only thing Pent has over him, aside from the awesome character design and exaggerated swagger, is the weapon ranks. Which is admittedly a shame.
@@dreamz1417 But did Saleh almost solo clear an entire Desert Chapter on his own? I dont think so. Checkmate Atheist
@@holschermarc Can't argue with that haha
@@dreamz1417 Also i just compared them and yes Saleh has 5 more levels to grow but given that Pent is ahead 2-3 Points in every Stat Saleh would have to grow pretty decent to good in those 5 levels to be equal. And the only Growth Advantage Saleh has is 5% more Skill growth, otherswise they are identical.
Pent even joins at the same time as Saleh in Ephraims route. CH24/26 depending if u play Eliwood or Hector Mode which is equal to CH15 as in both cases there are still 7 Chapters left to use them. Also Pent comes with A-Rank Staves and a Physic.
I genuenly believe Pent to be vastly superior to Saleh outside of personal preferences which of cause can be what ever the individual prefers.
31:15 I'll say don't punish too hard. That one was a pretty terrible Saleh. It was way below average in the most important stat.
I guess, but his growths are just soooo bad.
@kratosmvn_ I mean, yeah, but like, these are solo runs, I thought we were counting turn counts and time with resets being an added stat later... I'm thinking if you don't want him in the same rank as Cormag (which is the only unit faster in both time and turn-count), then I'd place him above Forde.
Also, perfect time to do Ewan (perhaps Shaman Ewan? Eh? Eh?), last "Mage" in the game I mean, you did Knoll, Lute, and now Saleh.
Since you can't do healers (like Natasha) without modifying their abilities... Ewan being the apprentice of Saleh AND the only un-run mage that isn't just solo-postgame spellcasters, Ewan makes a lot of sense. Regardless, I'd put Saleh above Forde or just below Cormag. Yeah his Growths sucked in 1 run, but, like vs "player error," I personally think that he did better. Hence the reasoning of below Cormag by 1 or top of Orange for the time being.
PS- Shaman Ewan? That's how I like running him anyway. Access to Nosferatu and a gained access to dark and Anima magic.Which, yeah, dark gets worse and worse as the game goes on, but I found that for whatever reason, the way it interacts with Ewan's stats... he seems to keep insane dodge and tanky on both sides, not just Magical. That's my experience anyway... need to get back to that run to test it out in solo. Though obviously you'd need to mod in the ability to buy it prior to the route split... as Flux is as available as early as Amelia and her speedwing. (Overworld vendor.)
PPS- apologies on mentioning the Ewan thing twice, I thought I deleted that paragraph. Not gonna remove the PS or the paragraph though. Only other thing I was gonna say is that I'm gonna make my own comment for ya to read shortly... concerning more "data," suggestions for future runs, and that'd be about it. I can't promise it'll be short though.
Hey Kratos! Good to see you going for more pre-promos. As much as he doesnt often seem as popular as Pent, I really liked his dynamic with his pupil Ewan. Love the content as always and looking forward to more!
Despite his bad growths, he is a bit of a "out the box" monster when thrown into the early game it seems. Not my favorite magic user in the series, but super fun to see.
I am also now, as per is my trend with these comments on the videos, adding another character to my ever growing list for you.
We now got got Innes, Wallace, and now Orson! We only get to play with him for 1 whole chapter! Criminal! Why not see how he can run the theoretical remainder of the game?
His dynamic with Ewan is very interesting for sure.
Thanks for the suggestions I'll keep those in mind.
Half way through the video and all I can think is.... the last chapter is gonna SUCK for him!
I wish Sages could promote after to be like Athos the archmage from FE7 that would have been such a cool character and focus more on late game character magic users! Thinking about Pent and Saleh, I use Pent way more than I do Saleh! Would be so cool to see a run through using an FE7 character like Eliwood, Lyn or Hector! I also wonder what a Brother Sister duo run would look like with Ephraim and Erika! What a great episode to watch before work!
And your thinking was right on the money, lol that endgame was something else. Yeah I also tend to use Pent more often than Saleh. Using FE7 characters in solo run would be a fun idea, I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)
midgame jagen moment
Pretty nice run! I am once again suggesting monster weapon Myrrh.
Man seeing the Goat with that stats at 12:00 level 20 would be a instant reset
hahaha I was hoping he would surprise and still pull through
I believe there is a mod that makes the growth rate fixed to give average stats on level up. Something like that would fix the randomness of sometimes getting a really good or really bad unit.
Finally got around to watching this one, and I gotta say I wanna put Saleh around where Lute is either just above or just below interchangeable really. One has a smoother early game the other has a smoother late game.
Thanks for watching. Yeah I'm thinking about probably bumping him up a little.
April fools vid: Can you solo fe8 with Tethys?
That could be a good idea.
I definitely want to see how this looks with more pre-promotes. Rennac would be fun to watch (I think his animations are cool), but I bet it would be extremely tough as well. Innes would likely be impossible.
Alternatively, you could try doing this with some of the creature campaign only characters.
Rennac is gonna be one hell of a run! I can't wait to try it out.
can't wait for Neimi solo run
It's gonna be a good one.
The Saleh ranking is definitely tough. At 310 turns and a 7:17 time, he looks out of place in the tiering. He undeniably demolished the early game but he struggled so much with Lyon and the Demon King that he needed a reset. Heck, half of your video was just that chapter! Surprisingly, he seems pretty similar in timing with Dozla, the other prepromote unit in the tier. Their times are not reflective of the struggles and number of chapter restarts you had to do.
I wonder if it would be a good idea to add a new column to the table to contextualize the struggle, you know? Like:
Name, Turns, Time, Rank, Resets, and then Vibes/Game Feel/Difficulty
Anyway, thanks for the run! Hope your next one will cause you less grief!
Thanks for the feedback he does look extremely out of place I think I'll end up bumping him up, but we'll see that then and there.
"Intelligent Systems, can I have Pent?"
-We have Pent at home
Pent at home:
Seriously tho, Saleh is definitely a special case given how he easily handles most of the game but ends up struggling against the final stages.
Would love to see some more Pre-promote solo runs. Perhaps Duessel since he needs more appreciation, or Innes if you wish to suffer lol.
Pent at home 😂
I'll have to keep thinking about his placement.
Prepromotes run are gonna be more common this year given how many units are left in the game lol.
Love the attempts man! Would you ever consider doing a “who solos the Lagdou ruins best/fastest” type of video?
Thank you! I've thought about something like that. I guess we'll just have to see haha.
Saleh, the poor mans Pent 😢
Pent from wish lol
I love/enjoy these videos and I still look forward to knoll dying every single time, just ordered the rip knoll merch cause even tho he dies every time he still my favorite ❤
I love it!!! Thank you so much man, I appreciate the support.
Personally, I think the rankings should be based on turns only, with time not being a consideration for ranking, simply due to the fact that in your earlier runs, there were a few surprising moments where you let the game run idle due to being shocked by an outcome you weren't expecting (whether positive or negative), and over time that can inflate the time elapsed for the game.
Negative outcome such as me staying on a game over screen aren't taken into account in the final time since when you restart a map it doesn't save that game time. There is a time variance and I still think time is worth much less in the ranking than turns, but I still think there is a positive aspect to have it part of the ranking.
you've inspired me to do something very similar on my own... but i'm specifically NOT using fe8 units. i just recently did a run with fe6 Sophia and... wow, her stats are shaky at best... (she just barely missed doubling the demon king with Excalibur by one point of speed)
Damn that's crazy. I'd love to try other units at some point for sure.
@kratosmvn_ it's certainly an experience, that's for sure. the difficult part would likely end up being managing the changes in stat caps over the course of the series, resulting in units from newer games being much stronger than GBA units... and also remembering the routing for chapter 6 to get the early Orion's bolt for any archers to get an early ranger promotion (which only sort of fixes them, sadly)
Saleh is one of few units able to get to the big magic needed for a 1 turn double warp in chapter 21
I will not do fixed growths for a couple of reasons.
A) Certain characters need to be stat blessed to beat the game so forcing average growths makes these runs impossible for some characters.
B) Randomness and luck on growths is an integral part of the Fire Emblem experience, and videos could literally just be worked out on paper and this whole series of videos would be useless. The growth variance is part of the fun and intrigue to keep these videos interesting and allow me to talk about many different aspects of the game by keeping this variance.
C) Some characters can clear the game with below average growths and being able to do that is a huge data point to rank these characters.
I do appreciate the suggestion though
It's nice to see that you had an overall easy attempt, well except for the end that is. Good job! Kind of hard to believe you've gone so long without doing an Ephraim run.
I honestly don't find your ranking list all that important. It answers a different question than the one your video is titled with. It could also vary heavily because Fire Emblem is random. While not practical, the thought of a perfectly capped Knoll due to godly RNG haunts you.
Glad you enjoyed!
Thanks for the feedback a perfectly capped Knoll also haunts me lol
YES! Saleh my boy. Don't care how well he does, I just wanna see some Saleh action.
Saleh action on a silver platter right here.
I think you need to do a smaller second tier list for pre-promoted units like Saleh and Dozla.
This way it would it be easier to gauge the promoted units such as Seth, Saleh, Duessel Because you can compare them with each other.
Comparing units that have an easy time solo'ing 90% of the game due to being promoted vs units that start with abysmal base stats is a bit unfair.
That's not a bad idea. I think I would keep them in the main tierlist, just to have a general view of ALL characters, BUT I think making a little secondary one to compare pre-promotes might be a fun way to look at them.
Should easily be at least in tier 2. The need to have to do a reset was purely luck based on below stat growth. Honestly would be maybe more fair to do these runs with a fixed stat growth like that one PoR feature, otherwise I think there can just be a lot of random variance affecting your results.
Yeah his growths were below average in the first run, but his growth are usually pretty awful.
I will not do fixed growths for a couple of reasons.
A) Certain characters need to be stat blessed to beat the game so forcing average growths makes these runs impossible for some characters.
B) Randomness and luck on growths is an integral part of the Fire Emblem experience, and videos could literally just be worked out on paper and this whole series of video would be useless. The growth variance is part of the fun and intrigue to keep these videos interesting and allow me to talk about many different aspects of the game by keeping this variance.
C) Some characters can clear the game with below average growths and being able to do that is a huge data point to rank these characters.
Addressing the tier list, you could put a tiermaker-esque tier list next to this one to present the results visually, with the spreadsheet where it is for the details
I did color code each tier to make visual, but I haven't added exact tiers yet, might to do that when all the runs are done!
What do you mean that first Saleh was pretty average? When accounting for stat boosters every single stat besides HP, Luck & skill was at 2-4 points below average
As for the 2nd one he was 4 points behind on HP, 1 point behind on Speed and 1 point ahead in Luck
So I might have expressed myself poorly when I said that, but what I meant was his overall growths being the worst in the game, it's more likely for him to be stat screwed than any other unit since he has low growths across the board. But you're right it wasn't an average Saleh technically.
his bias towards growths is really showing since an average saleh with added stat boosters clears with ease and powers through the final chapters with better play (purge to chip draco zombies so you don’t rely on excal crits) but i digress these runs are far from good and shouldn’t be considered at all when talking about unit ranking and viability
I never claimed these runs should be used to declare unit viability it is just to look at a unique way to play Fire Emblem, I also actively said in the video that the final map was tough even with better Saleh. If you think these videos are bad, just stop watching, buddy :)
@aaronjaurigue2307 only now do you speak lol.
You could maybe farm staves by healing npcs and warp the pontifex 1-2x in ch 18 to get the second speedwing with any caster class
Mmmhhh that's an interesting idea, I'll have to think about it for future runs.
omg you didn't put dead knoll in the merch. Knoll can't stop catching strays. Although good art on knoll death body.
LMAO, yeah I did! I appreciate the compliment.
@@kratosmvn_ lol
A very different outcome then i would have bet on, didnt know that Saleh ends up so underpowered
His growths are just really tough.
My suggestion for future runs:
Firstly, the one I consider OG Dimitri, Ephraim, should be up to bat as he's not had his chance and to me, he feels like a beast. Plus having access go Javelin/Short Spear, makes him seem like an obvious low-effort run.
Secondly Ewan, you've done the other 4 "Mages," (Lute, his mentor aka Saleh, Artur, and Knoll), caps off both trainee and mages in the game.
Thirdly, either re-tests of the oldest tested units andpostgame-unlocks like Lyon, Reeve, etc...
Lastly, trainees as their other main option, like, perhaps, Knight>General Amelia, whichever Ewan you didn't use (we ain't counting Summoner Ewan), and either Warrior/Berserker Ross... i forgot which Ross you used tbh...
This would be to compare trainee builds with one another on their runs, you'd have to hack Flux in for Dark Mage Ewan since he's sure to hit level 10 before the first chance at the speedwing from Amelia... but aside from that detail, all the others would work and we can put to rest the debate of Paladin Amelia vs Genedal Amelia, Berserker or Hero Ross vs Warrior, Mage vs Dark. It's one of their primary benefits as trainees and are the only units to choose a "base' class meaning they've got 3 or 4 choices for classes instead of iust 2.
If you want more mages perhaps hack in Light or Anima Magic onto the healers for more mage data... but yeah, only other option would be the other 3 pre-promotes that I can think of... um... Great Knight guy... wanna say Diesel? The one who usuallg protects Ephraim in the split route reconvergance, Rennac (probably kinda hard tbh), and then... not Vanessa, but the third Pegasus Knight... the one saving villagers in one of the last maps, a Falco Knight. Oh, also Gerik's group. Yes, I'm including... i wanna say Marissa? "Femme Joshua." But for new content thr well is drying up except for redoing older runs with your new methods, see how they change, see if they move up and by how much. 'Cause, whefher you've noticed or not, you've been optimizing the solo run, like someone could say you're Sung Jinwoo and it'd be fairly accurate (Solo Leveling MC if you didn't get the reference), point is, I'd add in anima for Tethys, give each healer eifher Light or Dark tomes so that they can level, and just stick to that tome type for their promotion. Perhaps starting to add in demake characters like Ike or simething else. Point is, I think my points above are what I'd do. Finish off groups of character archetypes... peehaps Ephraim's route solo runs once you feel you're finished with Erika's.
Those are all my honest suggestions in order to acquire data. Additionally, it's most prudent to only start the Ephraim route stuff once you feel satisfied with who you tested on Erika's route. Oh and then I'd look at FE7 Eliwood route (hard) and then FE7 HH as well for more solo runs personally.
Those are all my other suggestions that'd have taken 2 or 3 times the amount if I made it all of a single reply.
So yeah, you just got my tired and unfiltered thoughts. Apologies if i repeated myself a lot... but I wanna see you thrive off this type of challenge content. So yeah. That's truly all my thoughts.
Happy New Year, I truly hope all who read this have a wonderful 2025, and sams to all those who didn't.
PS- sorry about it beinf at least a day late, but i kinda binged all of Eureka Seven and finished yesterday, so I kinda missed the alert... oh well, better late than never.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep them in mind. Ewan and Ephraim will both have their runs, but I don't think it'll be the next run.
Happy new year to you too.
@kratosmvn_ hehe! Thanks! And sadge that they're not next. Also, you just reduced the units you can use (specific to your next run) into one of 3 categories:
Pre-promotes (includes post-game units and Orson)
Gerik's Group (so this has a small overlap with pre-promotes, but Tethys/Innes/Gerik/Marisa)
Gimmick (boss/someone else who you can't control normally, even postgame)
Just so you know, that makes me think potentially the next run... I wanna say ONLY playable merc, Gerik...
One of Duessel, Innes, Orson, Rennac, or Syrene as you've done the other ones that don't show up as postgame recruits...
I doubt you want to run Marisa right now as Joshua is better than her... she's pretty much agreed to be a worse version of him... though she does come with a Shamshir... can't think of any other playable character that has it.
I guess the last kind of stab at this point are the bosses from the maps that are in Joshua's kingdom... or technically Queendom when you arrive... only other is boss Lyon.
I can't think of anyone else that I'd be forgetting at this point... that's only concerning fighting classes. Healers/Tethys/L'Arachel herself, I'd say, fall into Gimmick alongside bosses...
Though if I had to pick one it's probably Gerik as he isn't a pre-promote and the only other unit aside from Marisa that hasn't run yet (and isn'ta gimmick/pre-promoted unit). I figure you want a bit of a mental break, thus Gerik, and I'm thinking "Gerik the Hero" style build for axes instead of swordlocking yourself as while that innate crit is good, hand axes kind of make up for it since you can dispatch more foes with increasing expediency. He also starts with a Hero Crest, meaning he'd be the easiest one to promote as he literally comes with his promotion item. Don't tell me if I'm right or wrong... I wanna see if I get it right on the money this time around. Your options are becoming increasingly limited, and unless you're gathering more pre-promotion data, he is the one who makes the most sense to me.
Finally Saleh, been begging for years for a Saleh run
🤣🤣🤣
So id definitely say this is a run worth getting a redo
Even considering low growths, its probability wise in your favor to get blessed as opposed to cursed, let alone just hitting averages which wouldve been perfect for the run. Salehs preformance really just suffered due to outside elements rather than actual statistics or standard gameplay
I see now, you did a reset for better stats, definitely needed to test out his more accurate preformance. He would still struggle in the late game, but i think it better showcases his capacity
My personal ranking for him based on what i saw would be to put him above forde
Lute notably has 2 whole resets (even if the fault isnt on her), and she still struggles with the final maps due to having even lower hp and defense than him, without the great early game.
That's fair that Lute did also somewhat struggle, maybe I'll bump up Saleh in the end.
Most Awaited 🕺🏽🕺🏽🕺🏽
Awesome!
26:20 Hmm, well Saleh has 56 hp which is 4 less than the maximum possible, it seems that he can’t tank because he doesn’t have enough defense. If only there was weapon that gave +5 defense, oh wait, there is, it’s called IVALDI!
My dude. Saleh starts with A anima and hits S rank real easy.
Only allowed one S, and you'd have to plan a lot to not S rank anima.
You're still wrong the Demon King's damage in both attempts is 34, if you had +5 defence to Saleh it gives him essentially 29 Damage. Saleh has a total of 54HP in run 1 and can't double without the help of Excalibur. In run 2 he has 56HP granted he could have doubled without Excalibur. But all in all we can't survive 2 hits from the DK in either run because 29*2 = 58, essentially higher than our HP total of both runs, so we run into the same problem with Ivaldi than with Excalibur. Yes, Lyon is slightly more consistent due to weapon Triangle advantage with Ivaldi, I'll give you that. But against the Demon King our dodge and crit becomes worse with Ivaldi and as I made abundantly clear in the video Saleh NEEDS luck of some kind to beat the Demon King so you'd rather have the higher avoid and crit here to put all the chances on your side. I get that's it's fun to catch RUclipsrs make mistakes and it probably makes you feel very smart, but please do basic math before posting MULTIPLE comments saying I'm wrong, thank you.
@ But everyone needs luck to beat the demon king save for a few units. Ivaldi just makes the grind up to it much more consistent. Ivaldi is more useful because the boost to Defense helps reduce elixirs needed before the final battle. Weapon triangle also means that the demon king will have similar hit rates to Excalibur despite the +5 speed. Ivaldi was the play here.
@ It’s feasible though.
@@voltron77 It's really not. I tested with Seth and only using Steel Swords, he hit S Sword before facing Bazba. With Saleh's Elfire giving 2 WExp to Steel Sword's 1, it's even more likely to hit S Anima by then when using the extra Mt to secure one shots and save uses, as we see at 3:04.
I think ive seen it mentioned here but a separate column with "endgame difficulty" 1-10 could help contextualize units who look out of place because they blast through the early game.
Yeah, it's a good idea generally. I'll have to think about it though.
@kratosmvn_ thanks! Or something like "RNG reliance" - for example I've seen you have runs (including this one) where it's common for characters not to hit the speed or damage thresholds for endgame, but other characters (ex. Seth, Cormag, etc.) would almost never run into that issue
Great Saleh run. I’m sure you’ll do good by L’Arachel as well! 😤
If I figure a way around the no-damage thing lol
@ you could use FE builder to give her access to light magic and use animations for it from Klokinator’s animation repository?
That or you could auto level her to 10 or 20 and just promote her to Valkyrie or Mage Knight from the start.
I have a idea...
Maybe do a fixed growth runs to help determine, that way you can never be screwed over by growths and to make all fair in case people get unlucky (that would suck as you would have to replay every single character)
I will not do fixed growths for a couple of reasons.
A) Certain characters need to be stat blessed to beat the game so forcing average growths makes these runs impossible for some characters.
B) Randomness and luck on growths is an integral part of the Fire Emblem experience, and videos could literally just be worked out on paper and this whole series of video would be useless. The growth variance is part of the fun and intrigue to keep these videos interesting and allow me to talk about many different aspects of the game by keeping this variance.
C) Some characters can clear the game with below average growths and being able to do that is a huge data point to rank these characters.
I do appreciate the suggestion though
We back 💪
One possibility if you were to redo the rankings, I think, would be to give characters an early game rank and a final chapter rank, in addition to time, turns, and resets. The existing data shows the brunt of the game fairly well, but falls short in whether getting them out the starting gate and over the finish line are as arduous as Selah has made one here.
Yeah that's not a bad idea. I'll have to look into it probably.
28:40 You could've tried to chip down the Dragon so it could die to a single Excalibur
It would have been a higher risk because you would have had to dodge the zombie dragon at least once or use an extra elixir against the zombie dragon.
we're getting into the "rare" units now, haha
We are lol
I cant wait till the "Playing SETHcred Stones the intended way" qnd have Seth just absolutely murder every single thing.
Seth all day!
Those growths aren't even that bad though, they're just meh
Wow you're cursed though
He literally has the lowest growth total in FE8 within the context of FE8 yes they are really bad. If were talking FE in general then it's a different conversation
@@kratosmvn_ He really just has a bad mag and skill growth. the rest are decent where it matters
you just got really RNG cursed on speed the first playthrough
@@kratosmvn_ Yeah, that only goes to show obnoxiously generous sacred stones really is.
Saleh definitely tried throwing the run with his growths.
He did man! lol
Funny thing about Chapter 15 is that I noticed you were spending a lot of time talking about the Valter fight, which you normally don't do. So pretty much right away I'm like, "Let me guess, he gets pierced?" I'm sure it was frustrating at the time, but it was really funny watching my suspicion be confirmed within seconds
Damn, I've become too predictable in my commentary 😂
@@kratosmvn_ eh, don't worry about it
I never liked the Sage class or the Druid class. The fact that the only thing they get is the ability to use other types of tomes, makes them look useless compared to a Mage Knight or a Summoner. Good video though.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. It is true that sage and druid feel a little empty compared to their counterparts
I'm sorry Grandmother...
My duty...
😭
I think Saleh needs to be ahead of Forde
That's fair!
A fun (or rather painful) run idea would be Evil Eye Tethys. Maybe see how far you can go rather than if you can be Formotis, lol
lol evil eye tethys is crazy
Just started this, but I am gonna say he is gonna be fine. between the stat boosters and having access to anima... yeah he is gonna be fine.
Now if this was Pent he'd probably get the highest on the tier list.
That soldier is coded to not attack UNLESS he is standing next to you, so he'll always move to the tile next to you.
I feel the way you place them you should have these 3 grading options. I feel you have done plenty of runs where you can grade what "the normal is"
Early game Clear -
Mid game Clear -
End Game Clear -
Final Boss Clear -
Resets Personally I never felt was something that matters, because as you said majority of the time it's because of a player over sight, you going the wrong class, or doing something silly. All though I do feel you should add a catagory called (was a exploit needed?) Example you getting light brand which should be a harsh penalty.
I feel this series went away from it's og goal of "can they do it" and over all turned into "How good are they at it?" As we learned as long as you give them the equipment they need and allow death/redos, the answer is yes they can. So the better way to look at this, is to divide the game into 3 points, and give them Points on how well they did on a 1-5 stars, and than average it out.
Example
Saleh early game: 5 stars
Saleh Mid Game: 5 stars
Saleh Late game: 2 stars
making his over all grade 4
Which is why Erika can be graded so low and justifeid for she almost struggeld in all 3 of these phases in comparsion to others lol
Honestly that's not a bad system overall. Thanks for sharing.
I gotta say.... I was playing this game last week... Had only valter left on chapter 15, and tried to feed the kill to cormag. Cormag could live the double hit if he missed. Well, cormag missed, and valder pierced cormag, killing him with the double hit. I had also forgotten about Pierce ability
Pierce is a heart breaking skill
So basically the equivalent of soloing fe7 with Pent.
Not exactly.
@ I mean, Pent isn’t going to be a walk in the park, he can’t use Luna and has weapon triangle disadvantage against nergal.
2:23 I mean, these look like average fe6 growth rates to me.
Yeah but this is FE8 not FE6
@Still, it’s crazy how fe8 has such insane growth rates that what would be considered average growths in older games are garbage in it.
i can't wait for the duessel run.
It will be a VERY interesting one.
So I’m curious… Since you’re modding the characters in, is there a way to import other GBA characters? Because I’d be curious to see how Lyn would do in a campaign like this.
Yes it would be very easy to import most other GBA unit.
I think tiers could be based on how many chapters are miserable, but it would not account to how much miserable they were.
Best thing could be to rank every chapter/10, average that and remove points for every reset based on their nature. But that seems like way too much work, esp. when you have other solo run to do.
I think it's not a generally bad idea I'd say, I'll keep it in mind.
Tested this on both this run and Arthur's, ranking maps/5 with 5 being rushing blindly, 4 mandating healing items, 3 introducing potential loss and a need for some planning, 2 reasonable luck being involved, 1 good luck being involved and 0 "pick a god and pray". Counting the final chapter twice, docking 2 maps' worth of point for Saleh needing good lvl ups and basing my judgement on the feeling your video gave after dividing the result by 5 to get a result/1 (for compatibility with other scoring systems), I got 0.73 for Saleh and 0.86 fir Arthur. Turns out Arthur had a lot of 4s (and a 2 on ch.4) while Saleh had a lot of 5s in the early and mid-game which almost made up for his 0+0 on the final chapter.
If anyone else tried to grade the performances, I'd love to compare notes (esp. if using a different methodology).
With the +5 speed and being +3 wt over ivaldi, Excalibur will always have +2 speed over Ivaldi at least. The more constitution you have the more egregious the difference becomes
That's fair, didn't think about it that way.
You should keep up with the Eirika Route theme and go Innes
Innes will be a nightmare haha, but would be interesting.
I don't think considering Saleh's reset for being under average in stats is just, bc it depends purely of luck, it maybe valid if the reason for the reset was that his average stats weren't enough, so you needed to reset in order to get an above average Saleh, maybe you should activate fixed growths on these runs in order to reduce the luck factor in the rankings
Yeah his growths were below average in the first run, but his growth are usually pretty awful. I do agree that maybe he should be ranked higher.
I will not do fixed growths for a couple of reasons.
A) Certain characters need to be stat blessed to beat the game so forcing average growths makes these runs impossible for some characters.
B) Randomness and luck on growths is an integral part of the Fire Emblem experience, and videos could literally just be worked out on paper and this whole series of video would be useless. The growth variance is part of the fun and intrigue to keep these videos interesting and allow me to talk about many different aspects of the game by keeping this variance.
C) Some characters can clear the game with below average growths and being able to do that is a huge data point to rank these characters.
@@kratosmvn_ i undestand, though i still thinking that it isn't right to rank low certain units bc they were screwed or inflate their rank bc they were able to complete the challenge with stats below average, bc it can vary way too much the overall unit performance, like in this case doubling or no doubling the demon king was a huge deal
I understand what you're saying, but I don't aim to have an accurate or scientific tierlist. Some units will always be inflated or get penalised for certain things, since the biggest factor in unit placement for me is how the run felt, which is extremely subjective, so it's hard to quantify that, the list is more an extra fun thing.
Before we start I'm going to make a prediction:
He's going to crush the first like 80-90% of the game. However... his growths are pretty bad and his bases aren't quite as jacked as Pent, so lategame enemies will be a real problem.
Pretty good prediction I'd say
Oh damn I missed these videos
Enjoy! :D
New Idea: Can you bet fe8 with only summons?
That sounds like a lot of fun.
Saleh is goated
it feels weird that saleh has less resets than lute, but is much further down the list
Yeah it is an odd sight. Gonna rethink the tierlist a little bit and the placement.
Gerik waiting room!!
Gerik will be a fun run
Well I'd say best way to compare the whole is stomping the easy part of the game better than stomping the hardest part of the game is something like how good Fergus compared to like Dagdar in thracia. Dagdar is pretty much better in every way but he's not there for the hardest parts of the game so generally Fergus is considered better becaue he's like the second best unit in the hardest part of the game while Dagdar is the 1st/2nd best unit for the easiest part of the game. Obviously if you had to choose between who to not have most would say Dagdar because well he's not essential, like imagine the manster escape arc without Fergus honestly sounds like a nightmare. Anyway that's just what I think about it dunno if it made sense or not.
Yeah, I kind of understand you're point, I'm still making my mind up on it though, we'll see next video I guess.
A consideration you could make moving forward to avoid runs like the first one in today’s video would be to make sure characters roll *at least* their average stats by max level. It obviously takes some of the randomness out of the game, but with the ending of FE8 being a hard line stat check a poorly leveled unit will literally be unable to beat the game.
Scott’s thoughts does solo Pokémon runs of various games and has several metrics that he grades performance on. To keep his runs as consistent as possible all of his runs use max hidden stat value. Obviously FE doesn’t have a hidden stat value and boosting every character up to stat cap wouldn’t make for interesting content. It might save you some hair pulling though if you would have rolled bad stats.
I will not do fixed growths for a couple of reasons.
A) Certain characters need to be stat blessed to beat the game so forcing average growths makes these runs impossible for some characters.
B) Randomness and luck on growths is an integral part of the Fire Emblem experience, and videos could literally just be worked out on paper and this whole series of video would be useless. The growth variance is part of the fun and intrigue to keep these videos interesting and allow me to talk about many different aspects of the game by keeping this variance.
C) Some characters can clear the game with below average growths and being able to do that is a huge data point to rank these characters.
I do appreciate the suggestion though
Ok, I know I've barely started the video, but why do you care so much that Saleh's skill growth is 25? his base is literally 18, he could have a 0 skill growth and *still* have serviceable skill in the endgame.
Edit: Heck, barely more than 5 minutes into the video you show a level up where he gets 26 skill. ??? What was the point of that big fuss in the opening? I also noticed that your Saleh is pretty damn magic and speed-screwed. That's not a point against him, that's just bad luck. 5:24
Edit2: glad to see you address it a bit later, but you still call the *growths* bad, rather than your luck just being bad. You can't really fairly call this an analysis of how he is as unit. If your Cormag was this unlucky, would you be talking about Cormag the same?
Honestly I don't know how you think this is even remotely non-biased, Your words and tone are pretty clear at the end. You're searching and grasping for reasons to place him lower despite the fact that he was stellar for pretty much the entire game while being stat-screwed, and only encountered difficulty at the end, a point where *every character* struggles to solo.
I've said MULTIPLE times in these videos that the ranking is based on MY experience of the run, of course my opinion will be biased??? I had a BAD experience with Saleh spent almost 4 hours on a single map repeating the process with 2 different versions of him of course I'm not gonna praise his performance? Also every character struggles at the end, but not every character struggles in the SAME way. Some characters need one place where they get lucky, Saleh needed a string of luck that was akin to winning the damn lottery.
I wasn't making a 'fuss' about the skill I was just pointing out a fact. This might be your first video, but I do this in EVERY video I look at the growths and talk about them within the context of FE8, why would I do it any differently for Saleh he has the worst Skill growth in the game am I suppose to not talk about it and making a point of importance in the video? And do you know why focusing on it at the start is an interesting point? Because he ended up maxing it out even with his bad growth, a funny and interesting anecdote I point out in the video to make it more interesting. If I hadn't talk about his growths the way I did that point is kind of lost to the audience. Also his growths are bad, he has the worst total in the game. What did you want me to say about them? 'Even though he has the worst total, his growths aren't actually the worst', like that makes any sense? It's just more likely for Saleh than for ANY other unit in the game to get stat screwed because he has the least amount of growths in the game, simple as that, I can't ignore that fact.
@kratosmvn_ it seems I've hurt your feelings. Sorry about that. I was just frustrated by what came off to me as an unjust assessment. If your question isn't rhetorical, then here's what I was thinking would make more sense to say about his skill:
"His skill growth is 25, which is pretty darn bad, but with his base of 18 and a couple secret books available throughout the game, it really doesn't matter."
By saying this, you can still talk about it and even mention how funny it is that it got maxed anyway despite the odds.
And I have watched some of your other videos before. It's just that this was the only one that I've seen where you had an egregious analysis of.
And like I said earlier, I am sorry that I've upset you, but you probably shouldn't have asked for people's opinions on your analysis in your pinned comment.
Don't worry you haven't my feelings haha. I was just slightly frustrated at your comment because your tone is a little smarmy and that type of attitude annoys me.
I guess that would have been a way I could have phrased it, but it would have been extremely boring and absolutely not in line with how all the other videos are. I always make comments and focus on the bad growth when it's literally the WORST in the game. That's how I do things in these videos.
I asked people's opinions in the comments because I value the input. BUT the way in which you give out your opinion is as important as the opinion itself. You can totally disagree with my placement and analysis that is fine, but the way you wrote your comment you'd think I had committed a crime haha. All this to say you can disagree, and I'm not mad, but don't be surprised with a frustrated sounding response if you're gonna comment out of frustration.
Imagine hitting the miss probability for all stats for 20 straight levels. DANGGGG sucky suck suck... hahah
Massively unlucky lmap
Lyon run next?
I can't promise next. But at some point sure.
Absoletely average Saleh (the second one) breezed through the whole game and had to struggle a little in the final chapter. And you put him in the middle just because in the first playthrough you got unlucky (he's a prepromote, so he has less levels to work with, so you have much more chances to get screwed with bad level ups). So what I'm saying is that you put him in the middle just because he's a prepromote which is insane.
No I put him in the middle, as I clearly explained in the video, because A) he had an absolutely miserable time against the final maps, and even on his second try struggles a lot with the final chapter, again as I mentioned in the video, over an hour on 3x speed with the better stats to complete the game. B) As I also stated in the video, he is in the middle because I'm unsure where to place him at the moment. I think he's better than all the units under him, but I still got to look at him in comparison with what is above him and I was waiting for the comments input to figure that out properly.
Honestly you should probably restart some of these solo runs way sooner. Especially for units that are already bad. It feels like every time you get the most doodoo-ass 5th percentile stats on your characters and still try to brute force it. Like sure, it's more work to go through the first half of the game a second time, but It's better than spending hours on attempts right at the end and then redoing the whole thing anyway.
I disagree because a unit that can beat the game with subpar stats says a lot about that character. So I think it's more valuable to see what's the cap of a stat screwed unit. It makes for a better video since I get to touch on more points than simply a winning run. I would save a lot of time you are right, but I don't mind spending a little more time to get as much info from a pratical standpoint on that character.
People don’t truly understand how goated saleh is
I mean I don't really remember the Lute run that well, but Saleh has one less reset, got growth screwed the first time and still 95% of the game is ez. I don't see how you can put him below Lute who is at 5 probably has a considerably less fun run through the beginning of the game, took 66 more turns and 38 more minutes and had to reset twice. In my opinion if an average Saleh can double and on average its 21.6 so with a speedwing he should typically double I would throw your first run away as a stat screwed run and put Saleh at at least 4th as Forde also had a reset. And if you didn't have that first run where he gets stat screwed you would be talking about him possibly being second so penalizing him when not penalizing the people that failed that are higher than him doesn't make any sense to me.
So Lute's two resets are mistakes by me. They weren't her being bad per say, once I had a Lute with Excalibur in the late game it went much quicker than Saleh ever did. I don't base solely on turns and times because I don't think that tells the whole story. And Saleh is the exact example why. He looks really good on paper, but that final Map was probably my top 3 worst experiences in this whole series, so it's really tough to rank. But I will end up moving him probably not to second place, because I think Artur had such an uniquely successful run it will be hard to move him from there.
@kratosmvn_ fair enough, I'll have to re-watch the Lute one again. Sucks it was a bad experience for you, and I can definitely see the argument that his terrible growths could lead to runs where he simply can't win without a ton of luck. But I think that first run he got a little more screwed than usual but hey that's what it is. There was another character you did I don't remember who but they got really blessed and you didn't let that influence your ranking so I trust you to make the right choice in the reverse situation. Good luck with the rest of the runs, and if you're taking requests I'd love an Ephraim run as he is one of my top 3 favorite lords or even better and POR Run would be sweet. Thanks keep up the great content.
yo kratos there mods that let dancers use magic in fe8, perhaps tethys soon?
Magic Tethys could be fun lol
Super pupil Ewan. 👍
Oh god! lol
Ephraim would be nice cause it can be in the bonus chapter 5 map snd yiu can have 2 of them to use
Double Ephraim action would be sick lol.
You should do a run with seth
Yeah, I will eventually.
I wonder if you can beat FE8 with Roy from another game
Just asking
It would be an interesting run to try.
@kratosmvn_ last thing is the promotion because it's another game exclusive thing
Waiting for ewan
Ewan will be VERY interesting.
Eyooooo we back
Heck yeah!
I think you should use a patch to make your levelups fixed. That way you have perfectly average characters every time and you don't have stat curses screw over your runs.
I will not do fixed growths for a couple of reasons.
A) Certain characters need to be stat blessed to beat the game so forcing average growths makes these runs impossible for some characters.
B) Randomness and luck on growths is an integral part of the Fire Emblem experience, and videos could literally just be worked out on paper and this whole series of video would be useless. The growth variance is part of the fun and intrigue to keep these videos interesting and allow me to talk about many different aspects of the game by keeping this variance.
C) Some characters can clear the game with below average growths and being able to do that is a huge data point to rank these characters.
I do appreciate the suggestion though
Kratos u are the best
No u
Saleh should be way higher, sure the endgame was tough, but he trivialized almost the entirety of the early and mid game. (And you also made poor weapon choices and he got stat screwed.)
Poor weapon choices?
@ He should have used Ivaldi.
@voltron77 Why? He shows why it's a worse choice. That extra Defense from Ivaldi was going to do nothing.
@ That’s what he thought, but in the endgame, he laments how enemies do too much damage to him, +5 Defense would have helped.
Can Lyon beat the game?
Most likely, but it would be fun to try.
pog
No u