Drinker's Chasers - The Problem With Kangs And Multiverses
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- In this video, me and the panel discuss the writing problems with Kang The Conqueror, and creating a multiverse where everything can happen and nothing has any meaning.
Link to Dark Harvest: www.amazon.com...
Disney did the unforgivable in Quantumania: they tarnished the wholesome father and daughter relationship between Scott Lang and Cassie.
They’ve turned Cassie into the Clone Girl from Jurrassic World Dominion: Bratty Unlikable and disrespectful
@@chasehedges6775 turned her into the daughters in Army of the dead
Just stop giving these pedos your money . Stop watching their rubbish
Yeah it was clear they wanted to bang.
Exactly!
She was so adorable on the first 2 movies, it's very similar to what Tony and his daughter had. While in this one I was like, what the hell have they done.
Immagine if they introduced Thanos in a television series where he gets defeated only to get reintroduced in an Ant man movie where he is defeated a second time.
Thanos has already been mocked and easily defeated in Endgame, Loki (very loosely) and What If. Marvel will perpetually live under shadow of Thanos by introducing exponential power scaling, w/o realising that’s not what makes a good villain
@@kirathekillernote2173 yes ,villaian ideology is the main selling point but Kang's motive are trash as well,Thanos ideals are something that many people can go behind.
And then they show you a huge stadium with thousands of instances of Thanos acting like a mindless crowd. And use the cheapest possible earth-based archetypes to introduce the a few major variants that are driving the show. Totally underwhelming. Imagine the Age of Ultron's post credits scene, but instead of Thanos picking up the gauntlet to take care of stuff himself, introducing hundreds of juvenile cheap Thanos clones with an Egyptian and Eastern themed pair on top. That would have totally turned the hype for Infinity war up to 11...
Live action Squirrel Gurl kicks Thanos's ass , call it
@@himanshumann1904 I believe those people have fidget spinner for a moral compass, but you are not wrong. But it is not necessary to agree with the villain to find him appealing, you need to find them a real threat to characters in the story.
Kang is basically not that at all. Marvel fucked up by introducing time heist and destruction of entire timeline. No one can fathom a battle against someone who can erase the entire universe vs oppressed Falcon
How threatening can your villains be when they're consistently beaten by a punchline.
Most mcu villains aside from Thanos and Goblin in no way home and like 1 or 2 others have been punchlines and Goblin wasn't even originally an mcu villain. They owe Sam Raimi for that one
@@idawg7332 You’re keeping score as though this is somehow a sport 😂
Sorry but it’s just dress-up 👗
Where can i watch this full podcast or whatever?
@@CursedWheelieBinYup. Turn off brain. Criticism bad. Turn off brain and consoom.
You’re a fucking Neanderthal
Of all the writing problems that plague the MCU the constant frickin comedy is by far the worst.
I can only assume that they keep bringing in the exact same people for focus groups and preview screenings because it seems unbelievable that they simply keep making the same god damn mistakes over and over again.
Kang: "I have conquered timelines and killed many variants of Avengers!'
Also Kang: "Oh God! Help me! The ants! They're everywhere! Get them off!"
Kang is a time traveler him creating múltiple universes and alternate Kangs was an unwanted result Of the paradoxes from his many time travels.
Instead of Nick Cage, The Wicker Man; it's
Kang, The Ant-Flicker Man.
@@texasbeast239 OH NO NOT THE BEES!
It reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons, where Radioactive Man is in the pool of toxic chemical, "My Eyes, the goggles, they do nothing"
Also Kang: OH, NO, NOT THE ANTS! NOT THE ANTS! AAAAAHHHHH! OH, THEY'RE IN MY EYES! MY EYES! AAAAHHHHH! AAAAAGGHHH!
Kang was supposed to be hyped by MCU an Avengers-level threat since Thanos yet he was swiftly defeated by an ex-Baskin Robbins employee and his family who can shrink/grow and talk to ants.
Ya, and there's infinite more of him to defeat. The whole point is that he can't be actually defeated unless some radical measure is taken.
EX Employee, OF THE MONTH!
@@synnical77 doesn’t matter when they already wasted the best variant of him
@@synnical77 what about thanos? Super dangerous in infinity war then I'm endgame he does straight away and we got a thanos with 0 past with previous avengers and looked Hella nerfed
@@synnical77 But if they're *all* pretty easy to beat, it doesn't matter if there are infinite hims. You have infinite heroes who can take turns killing the infinite hims. Numerically, he's at a very bad disadvantage.
If you want kang to be this evil almighty character MAYBE Don't treat him like a goofy reoccurring side villain
What, Disney treating their quota characters with respect? Impossible. He’s the MCU version of Finn.
Where can i watch these full podcast or whatever?
I hope they go bankrupt before they touch Doom because ffs
@@theVictor-isVonDoom fans hyping up Doom’s entry into MCU meanwhile I’m praying that they don’t get there as it’s a guaranteed character assassination
@@theVictor-isVonDoom At this point Doom is already trashed by the previous Fox entries so I really don't get how you would expect any better from the MCU.
A much better ending for quantum-mania would have been Kang escaping and leaving Scott and Hope behind
Ig that could have been done if Ant Man 3 was right before Avengers 5. With the current timeline, not possible coz of all the product coming after this.
I think that was the original ending actually but the big brains at Marvel Studios changed it because that’s how the second movie technically ended (Scott trapped in the Quantum Realm).
A lot better ending would be Kang actually killing some of them, winning and going on to do his thing...
We all thought this during the screening. Kill Michael Douglas for emotional weight and trap Antman and wasp in the Quantum realm for a few movies. Cassie has to enlist Mr fantastic (the smartest man alive) to build a device that can save them. Now that's a fucking ending
@@GinNBoost to be real, if they did do it, he could have been like "not again!"
Speaking of, Scott spent 5 hours there and never noticed the whole world there or stumbled onto anything?
The infinite universes issue is that it creates a paradox where the stakes are both infinitely raised and lowered making everything incomprehensible and pointless.
By God, it’s like a little kid wrote this. I get a headache just from thinking about it, let alone watch another 10 movies exploring this concept.
It's just excuse to throw anything to the plot. Do you want Steve Rogers back? Here is 5 and one of them might be gay for Bucky if you seen a deleted scenes where he talks about Bucky and there is interview where the director might alluded to it if you ignore half of the words in that sentence .
that only bappenes if you try to telk a simply one dimentional story in the multiverse. everything everywhere all at once proves your comment wrong and the reason is because that story actually uses some of the complexties that can exist in the multiverse. anothed good example is infinite crisis, or multiversity. you only say the multiverse is the problem if you're dumb and/or a hack. its kind of how most people tell stories about magic by making rules that cut out the magic.
@@johnymustacio Multiverses are a terrible story element
That's why if you're doing to do a multiverse story you have to have one primary universe that serves as the template for others. That's the way DC's multiverse works and they've been telling stories about it for decades.
One thing that always bothered me with Antman 2 and now 3, was they went "sub-atomic". That means they're really really REALLY tiny. Smaller than an electron. How did they find anything that small, let alone a specific person like Pyms wife or Kang?
Each electron would be like a planet. And there are how many atoms in anything? Quadrillions upon Quadrillions? That's why Pym never went looking for her. It's beyond impossible. Yet here we are with parts 2 and 3.
Not to mention it was a literal Demon stuck down there and after she got rescued she never told anyone what's down there? Not even her husband who was finna go looking for her? Terrible writing
Not to mention physics would be wacky at those scales....
@@keenanlarsen1639 Or how are they breathing? Oxygen atoms are now the size of solar systems.
What's always bothered ME about the whole "subatomic" thing is that they just treat it like essentially going through a portal to another world or dimension. They're literally smaller than electrons and photons. How are they seeing when their eyes depend on photons and photons are now larger than their eyes? How are they breathing (without helmets, mind you) when a single molecule of oxygen is now an order of magnitude larger than their whole body? I seem to remember in the first Ant-Man movie (unless I'm just imagining it) that it was explained the suit had its own limited oxygen supply which would shrink and grow with the suit, which was why he never took the helmet off when he wasn't normal size. The sequels have completely abandoned that, and now they're removing their helmets (and their suits entirely) while subatomic with no repercussions.
But Quantumania goes even worse. Now there are whole cities in the subatomic universe; cities that look like they were just plucked from any generic sci-fi alien world, with space ships and other recognizable technology. What materials is any of this constructed from when the most basic building blocks of the universe are the size of planets in this world? These aren't things that - like Ant-Man - were once normal size and shrunk down using Pym Particles. Everything there was theoretically built there using materials from there. For that matter, what energy sources are being utilized when a single electron is now larger than the ships and technology that would be utilizing it?
Once again, the original Ant-Man explained the sub-atomic realm as almost like an unknowable shifting Lovecraftian space in which the laws of reality completely broke down and things like gravity ceased to exist, but the subsequent sequels just did away with all of it. Now it's for all intents and purposes just an alien dimension, with atmosphere and gravity and native humanoid life forms and everything else one would expect, where sometimes time works differently (5 hours in the quantum realm being 5 years outside it) and sometimes it doesn't depending on the needs of the plot.
@keiichi8191 100% right. If anything, this antman could have been an epic horror movie with how they (and you) described it. Imagine having to relearn physics with Lovecraftian monsters after you with a constantly shifting reality. All the while a clock is ticking because the suit is running out of air.
I want to see THAT movie.
The way Everything Everywhere All At Once handled the Multiverse was FAR more interesting, presenting as a metaphor for the different paths we could have taken and opportunities we may have lost due to our decisions. That film had thought and effort put into it, unlike most everything post endgame, and it shows.
In that movie writers confront the point of conversation head on - the fact that there is little reason to care about anything if there is infinite versions of everything IS the problem characters have to solve for themselves or surrender to total apathy and despair. In Rick and Morty multiverse works because the tone of the show is already rather hopeless and cynical.
As if before Endgame the mcu was good? I am really bored of that made up narrative, Endgame was poorly written and executed, so was the Ultron movie, Iron Man 3, Thor Ragnarok, Homecoming, the difference is that people are just now realizing, but the cynism and lack of effort is part of the mcu identity, disney does not care about the brand and the people behind it (writers directors and producers starting by feige) have never touched a Marvel comic book.
@@CabezasDePescado agreed. It only became popular bcuz these studio finally did what fans were asking for for decades.. which was show the heroes together on screen. Which why despite the absolute garbage released by DCEU and MCU … ppl still kept coming and pumping money. Now.. we’ve had the novelty of heroes being together on screen for 15 years and the awe has worn off. Ppl are finally starting to demand respect and quality from these works. It’s about damn time. The minimum should’ve never been overly celebrated to begin with.. it was a small win being treated as a big win.
The ONE with jet li handled the multi erase better than the MCU
Doctor Strange MoM kind of dabbles in this idea. But because it's a big CGI action movie it never really explores it.
Felt the same way about Ultron. Back when there was only one Ultron and he was constantly improving himself, always on the look out for better and better materials and technology to build his next body you knew every time you saw Ultron he would be tougher than last time you saw him.
But then he started making drones and then you have a ton of Ultron-looking minions that are easily smashed and beaten and it dilutes how scary Ultron is, since you seen dozens of his look-alikes easily beaten.
James Spader made that role work tho
@@chasehedges6775 irrelevant of the point
With Age of Ultron it was basically just recycling the first Avengers film storyline.
With the nuke from Avengers 1 being revisited as the possible dropping of Sokovia in Ultron.
The army of Ultrons is literally just a rebranded Chitauri army, as the Outriders in Infinity War/Endgame are just another rebranding again.
Even the frickin Hulk drama is just repeated again and again within Avenger films, either just going nuts or refusing to fight or just being Big Green Lebowski - it's just so formuaic and boring.
@@mnomadvfx Age Of Ultron was average at best
Ultron went from a computer program to Megatron in the comics, but I think they ruined his powerscaling in the movie. Still loved Ultron's design, just not his portrayal.
A simple fix would have been "they couldn't defeat me, so they sabotaged my ship and stranded me here" and then don't have him lose.
Problem with Kang is that eventually he will end up like Kenny from south park "oh my god you killed Kang you bastard" every movie and tv show just killing him over and over.
What's funny is that the argument that there are no consequences in a multiverse was the same position held by the daughter in Everything Everywhere All At Once. And that movie was all about showing her that individuals still matter. That what we do still matters. That's REALLY what the Marvel team need to steer toward. Focused stories so the audience sees things like the Mother and Father in EEAAO instead of becoming jaded like the daughter was.
You are right about multiple versions of the same character diluting them. It's the inverse ninja rule: One ninja in a fight scene is a force to be reckoned with, but 100 ninjas will stand around in a circle waiting for the hero to punch them.
I believe the proper name for that phenomenon is "The Law of the Conservation of Ninjitsu," there is only so much ninja energy to go around after all. XD
This concept has actually been played out in a variety of ways, but I think the way 'Farscape' did it is one of the best. If you have two identical characters, we all expect that eventually things will arise that will cause them to diverge. That is simply the nature of events. From the moment one of them wakes up late and one wakes up early, or one catches a TV show and the other goes for a walk, they have different bodies of experience and will eventually start to make different decisions. The MUST become DIFFERENT characters. So a thousand Kangs you've never met are like a thousand total strangers you've never met - they're Kang only in name and not alike as PERSONS... they're not even characters. They're empty holes waiting to be filled. If none of them ever distinguish themselves in any way, they're more like the ants than they are like humans. Just cogs.
@@HerculesBallsInc empty holes waiting to be filled, thanks for that one Mr. balls
@@HerculesBallsInc Complete agreement about Farscape. Sadly, the current MCU doesn't have the same level of creativity.
@@HerculesBallsInc in the MCU there are literally gods of all different levels that influence and manipulate the creation of events and matter itself. So if all are forced into similar circumstances then it's fair that they will share core personal traits based on experiences.
The Scarlet Witch as a "sympathetic" hero: just a misunderstood MoM who effortlessly wrecks everyone, including top tier characters with cosmic and Omega level power, takes no losses (ever) and ultimately can only be defeated by deleting herself. "They'll never know how much you sacrificed..."
.
Kang as a "sympathetic" villain: gets easily defeated multiple times (every time) so that "fans will root for him harder"?
Soooo, Kang's actually a hero, and the Scarlet Witch is a villain...Got it!
RIP MCU 👎
Never thought about it but it's true we know (the message ) can't have a man win.
Disney seem to be having a troubled relationship with morality since Maleficent.
They can't seem to stop demonising ordinary people in the stories while trying to make audiences more sympathetic to villains.
@@mnomadvfx Puss in Boots Last Wish laughs in the face of overplayed sympathy cliches XD jokes aside this is why DreamWorks is ahead of them, they are consistent with morals and makes it perfectly clear to remind ppl how and why you shouldn't be a psychopathic killer who only cares about themselves and willing to destroy for fun and makes sure their main characters are the positive models ppl should look up to be. Disney and Hollywood being the corrupt POS they are along with their corrupt, morally and creatively bankrupt executives have no such understanding of that because they are the very villains they try to paint as innocent. It's also no wonder many actors like Chris Hemsworth and many of the DCU actors quit and want nothing to do with their boss's bullcrap.
The comics was able to do a sympathetic villain because Wanda never have control on entire life.
Scarlet Witch created new beings? Mephisto's essence was fused with her kids.
Wanda lost her children? Agatha made Wanda forget that ever happen.
Wanda goes crazy and unleash her rage on Avengers? Wasp mocks Wanda to Miss Marvel that Wanda has good body for someone who was pregnant and the fact she lost her kids.
Wanda kills Agatha? Because her closest ally lied to her about a major detail in her life.
Wanda created House of M because Avengers and X-Men were plan to kill her and her brother influence to warp reality.
Wanda is back? Doctor Doom mind control her to be his wife so he can have her powers.
Wiccan and (Speed) save their mother, she barely has time to absorb all that information.
Not mention, how many times her origin and her origin powers changed in her entire life. Anything she knows end up being lies. Not to mention connection that she had her entire life.
@@mnomadvfx I really enjoyed Maleficent for that reason. From a Human perspective, she's definitely the villain, even if she was justified in her anger & defense of the Fae it didn't excuse any of the other lives caught up in the strife. Disney obviously didn't walk away with the same take I did, but personally this feels like putting male villains "in their place".
Multiverse undermines any legitimate meaningful story. Thank you for covering this.
I agree with everything you said except for it undermining legitimate meaningful story.
You're right Drinker. Outside of the political messaging, their biggest mistake was that they completely blew the stakes by introducing Kang this early...it would have been much more compelling if the surviving heroes struggled with their loss, sacrifices, and guilt while dealing with their own low level villains and personal stories, only to realize why they became heroes in the first place, and band together with old and new avengers when a world level threat comes -- like the original team. It would have been much better for the next big team up movie to be "The New Avengers".
Introducing him in Loki *could* have been fine, since that wouldn't be the *real* villain, just the guy warning us of him. *However* since they brought him out in Ant Man and made him a joke there, it's going to be *impossible* to take that dude seriously moving forward
Exactly. Somehow in their timeline everyone seems to have moved on pretty quickly from a literal universe level threat of Thanos!
But, the stakes are still there. Kang is still going to tear things apart eventually. This is still pregame.
@@synnical77 If that's his warmup, the actual game's gonna be so bad they'll only have to assemble to C-team to stop him
@@synnical77 it’s a shit pregame so that’s a mute point entirely. Plus, like Op said, the heroes should’ve mourned longer. You don’t just get over the snap in half a decade. It’s been a century since World War 1 and we still haven’t gotten over that entirely.
introducing this version of Kang as a somewhat beatable villain gets no one intrigued or invested in his character unlike Thanos.
He was the Classic Kang too. With the chair, the suit, everything.
@@superjlk_9538 yup and that’s what made it worse
Awesome to see the rise of The Little Platoon.
I knew he was destined for greater things.
I really enjoy how different his content is too. Like a longer form more in depth review. I just throw it on and grind through work stuff for a couple hours
He and Redlettermedia are my "comfort" channels. I usually play my switch or read comics or books or write my scripts or when I am going to bed.
We watched his career with great interest
I can’t get enough of Little Platoon’s content.
@@diegoluna7294 I enjoy the sound of his voice also.
"Multiverse Theory's a b-itch." - Mr. Perfect Cell
I've never read the comics, I have no experience as a writer and I'm 35 years old, so that puts me on the same play field as the actual writers. So this is what I would do with Kang.
So Kang is this Multiverse Entity that exists physically in a limbo, outside of time and space. In life Kang the Conqueror was also a scholar in pursue of enlightenment, the only way to acquire ultimate knowledge was to enslave entire civilizations. When he discovered the multiverse, it drove him mad, he wanted it all, an infinite source of knowledge at hand. Kang developed the ability to manifest himself on different universes, but this requires a lot of power, so his copies are weak, he can't fight at his full potential, but it is more than enough for most universes.
When Tony Stark blipped Thanos and his army away, he sent waves across multiple universes, calling the attention of Kang. He has never felt such power, he immediately focuses all his efforts to look for the source. When he discovers the Infinite War and the existence of all these strange beings with exceptional powers he overflows with excitement. He wants to fight them and unravel the mystery of these exceptional creatures and the strange artifacts they possess. What could be more captivating for someone like Kang that powerful adversaries with fascinating secrets?.
Kang sends his copies to fight our heroes, but they get destroyed one by one, in each universe. This makes Kang grow frustrated, but every lost battle is a valuable learning experience for him to ultimately defeat this fascinating creatures.
Conquering this universe will be no easy task after all, so he starts thinking like a conqueror, he needs a plan, he needs allies, set up outposts, spies and secure routes for his armies. So that's what Phase 4,5 and 6 would be. Kang little by little gaining power and territory and our heroes discovering who Kang is, trying to figuring out his plan and meeting heroes from other universes like the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, the Illuminati and other version of themselves.
Our heroes start suspecting something is wrong when they defeat Kang for the eleventh time and they don't seem to make any progress, each Kang is harder to beat than the last, every new Kang knows their weaknesses and limits. Every tried and tested way to kill him fails and they have to come up with new and more difficult methods to defeat him. This creates unrest amongst our heroes.
Then, at the end of Phase 5, after a brutal battle, the Real Kang manifest himself and gives our heroes a little taste of his real power by annihilating the Illuminati, Kang lets Baron Mordo live and uses him as a messenger to tell the others to prepare, because he is coming.
what nonsense. kang is not really ohtside tbe multiverse. maybe at least not in the wah you desceibed. if kang was outside the nultiverse, the power of tony killing thanos would be nothing to him. and the knowledge of the multiverse is something he could get without any of the fighting. creating unreast among our heroes is a very well wors bullshit story beat thats in a significant njmber of stories. cinemasins calls a version of it the the third act conflict betwee the heroes cliche. as for kang having tk work this way to conquer the multiberse, why? why isn't he powerfull enough to auto win? why can't he just ask for the knowledge he wants?
The problem is Marvel was stupid how they handled Phase 4. After Loki a different Kang should have appeared in each Multiverse movie. A version of Kang should have been in Spider man No Way Home they could have had it that he was the one that influenced Peter to make that wish and influencing the Goblin to destroy the box. And in Multiverse of Maddess he could have been the one that was influencing Wanda, taught her about the Multiverse and drove her into her insanity but no Kang is only in a show no one watched and a movie no one watched.
That actually sounds like a really neat idea which is a shame Marvel didn't go for that.
@@georgeray1906 honestly thought after Loki that was what they were going to do but for some reason Kevin Feigie who thinks he is above everyone didn't think of this. Even my friend who is a marvel shill said that phase 5 is going to fail because they miss managed Kang
“Sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads” dr evil
Can't do that. The sharks would be seen as being mistreated. Dr evil will be cancelled.
@@mvader7188
"Can't do that. The sharks would be seen as being mistreated. Dr evil will be cancelled."
Unless he fronts the World Economic Forum.😅
They could've turned Kang into yet another thinking man's villain by giving him a rather philosophical/existential motivation along the lines of having blurred his individuality by spreading himself thin through variants, possibly as the result of an ambitious scientific experiment. He'd simply be in pursuit of his own true origin and therefore more than inclined to play fast and loose with the multiverse's cohesion and stability.
So, why not have him be the one to whisper into Wenwu's ear to bring down the barrier between that other realm and our reality by exploiting love?
Why not have him attempt to guide Gorr across the multiverse on his killing spree, thereby exploiting hate/vengeance (and treating us to Old Thor, Rune Thor, Beta Ray Bill and our universe's Thor vs. Gorr in the process)?
Why not either assume the mantle of Nightmare or even feature on The Illuminati in Multiverse of Madness getting a front row seat to Strange's struggles?
Why not set the Eternals on another Earth and end it with Tiamut's emergence as a reflection of Kang's frustration?
Why not establish a clear and understandable link between Iron Lad and Kang already?
Why not have Victor Timely pop up in flashbacks and tailor this reality to his liking (and have him cross paths with the likes of Wolverine and a Ghost Rider 'ancestor')?
Why not have him "play dress-up" by rounding out the multiversal Sinister Six in No Way Home (okay, that one's a little less serious/necessary)?
Why not interconnect Kang and Doom like the Larroca/Cantwell comics did?
He'd barely ever lose, especially not to Wahmen Loki or highly evolved ants but literally play the long game just to get an unshakable sense of self. But as he's unclear on who he is he tends to disregard entire universes' right to exist growing callous to the sacrifice of trillions upon trillions.
Some Kangs could be in cahoots with one another while others are actively foiling their variants' plans.
So after a two-part CGI extravaganza we're all expecting and are preemptively tired of already, they could throw the audience a curveball by having Mr. Fantastic, Prof. X, Wanda, Strange, Black Panther and an Iron Man variant enter some kind of therapy session with Kang transporting him back to his origin mentally and thereby cleansing him off his genocidal truth seeking, either shutting him off from all his variants or effectively eliminating them all as he gains ultimate introspection.
Well said
gore is a dumb plot device that has to be extremely well crafted to not sink into a bottomless pit of theology, ethics, morality, and reason. saying somwone is controling him doesn't fix any of that.
and having kang as much control of the mtiverse as he does makes in unaissessairy for him to do any of these things
Great work. This would have tied everything together and saved phase 4. Maybe in an alternative universe this is what has happened and Marvel is still exciting..
Kang having 10.000 variants who MOSTLY scream like monkeys in the post credit and only three of them being actual threats was the worst offender, actually
We wuz monKANGZ
They could had played with Kang"s concept: he would hardly put up a fight in a first movie and be defeated but he'd keep showing up in subsequent movies in a seemingly jumbled-chronological way until we'd eventually find out that he is outside time, picking and choosing when to show up. The whole phase could had been a mixed up timeline that we could rearrange chronologically at the end of the phase.
You'd need a big brain script but they can buy big brains.
behold the only smart comment i've seen in the thread so far
i think that should be the terror of kang. He can be defeated, but another version of him from the future, past or even an alternate choice would show up and start fucking around. he will keep on fighting, wearing down the hero's, and even other variants of himself that also want to conquer. Each version different, with different tactics, powers and tech, but the same in their drive to conquer.
Sad thing is the writers didn't see where they failed but instead blamed the audience like the eternals and love and thunder
It's strange they brought in Rick and Morty writers because that show often references how because Rick has infinite Mortys, and Summers and Beth's that none of the individuals truly matter. Exactly the problem the MCU is creating for itself.
R&M writers partially ruined Marvel.
The thing with a villain like Kang is that his concept only really works in comic books, since they're continuous storytelling. Even taking into account the entirety of the MCU you only really have enough to fill maybe a year (two being generous) of comic book stories. By their nature they need to keep going. So of course you want returning villains. And having someone like Kang, who's always a potential menace in the background, is a good way to have something prepared for when you need an event. But movies are basically _all_ the equivalent of event comics. You can have a movie about Batman meeting and fighting the Riddler but you can't really make a movie about that time Batman fought the Riddler for the fifteenth time. You need to make it special, and this sort of thing works for regular characters whose story has a beginning and an end. It doesn't work for a character whose entire schtick is that he always comes back.
*Clone Army of Kangs in marching formation*
Prime Minister Lama-Su of Kamino: "Magnificent, aren't they?"
Aunt Man and the Wisp: We Wuz Kangs.
My favorite moment in the infinity wars was when Thanos was defeated by Iron Man’s butler. Really built up the tension.
So Pepper grabs the gauntlet from Tony and does the "snap" to Thanks and his army. She helps Tony stand up, but Tony drops to a knee and calls her the Real Iron Man. Pepper suffered no effects from using the gauntlet, because the true power of the universe is being a "woman".
Jet Li was a bigger multiverse threat than Kang
The One is still a decent film.
For me with this Kang, the first to be introduced on the big screen, with him being defeated, I feel like we are left with all the knock offs
This was my exact fear when they introduced the multiverse, the stakes have just become nonexistent.
And the focus falters.
It's funny because the meaninglessness of stakes in a multiverse, and the characters response to this, is a big reason why Rick and Morty works.
its funny because rick and morty has steaks regardless.
RnM works because they were an absurd comedy in the first place.
R&M writers contributed to the fall of Marvel. So did Kang (Jonathan Majors).
The thing that catches my attention even more than the lack of a clear goal for Kang or the absence of consequence due to multiversal nonsense is that, in their heads, Kang is going to be the one you want to cheer for. The intention is right there when they say that they want Kang defeated so hard that when he comes back the audience will want to root for him.
Throw heroic figures under the bus, that's yesterday's news, f*** aspirational characters.
As clear and understandable Thanos' motivation was, when he talks about his goals before fighting Dr. Strange the line was clearly drawn where any noble intent was superseded by megalomania.
Thanos had his movie, we was the protagonist, you were supposed to see from where he was coming from but he was never the hero.
Now they want Kang, the next "big bad", to be the one who you want to see succeed.
They seem to not realize that even if Thanos was sympathetic, the audience still didn't want him to win. They just understood his motivations. Disney MCU thinks Thanos really was the hero, which is a huge problem if you're still trying to market your superheroes as the good guys too.
If you have ever seen or read One Punch Man, they seem to be trying to make the character Garou. He is a villain for complicated reasons, and yet you end up conflicted as you want him to win at one point (because he is saving a child's life from heroes and how his ideals sorta make sense in a messed up way) despite him being the villain because the situation was written for that to work properly and you understand his reasoning. Plus despite being a powerful hero killer, he is a complete underdog when you consider how strong Saitama (One Punch Man) is. In fact Garou was capable of fighting really well against some strong heroes, and yet was instantly defeated by Saitama by accident. And after all of this he still goes on to become a truly powerful and compelling villain after some time.
@@GBDupree it has been some time that I've checked but I don't remember Garou actually killing somebody, he sends the tank tops to the hospital and beats up his classmate but never kills them.
What makes Garou compelling is that he is a reflection of Saitama, Garou becomes arrogant and prideful of his strength while lashing out against those he considers false heroes (instead of doing some heroing himself) while Saitama is frustrated that he can't see a clear goal for himself but takes the road of facing that entropy while trying to do some good in the meantime with actions like treating King and Genos as actual people.
Garou literally transforms into a monster, his shadow taking hold and become unable to see beyond himself, a self destructive creature, with all his pent up anger taking hold of someone who should be inspiring others and you do want to see him give Saitama a fight to get the hero out of his rut and also you want Garou to be put in place for his own well being and those around him.
There's no problem with compelling or sympathetic villains, the tipping point is when you toy with the idea that heroic values are a joke, villains are oppressed and should be let lose or that "we are the same, you and I".
Yes, I may be a silly movie about a dude who shrinks or a ridiculous manga about a dude who punches very hard but they have a value as they conform our own stories we tell ourselves about our own selves.
@@AlDesentis Yeah, I haven't gotten caught up in the manga either and its been awhile so I forgot a lot about his character. But I just thought he had an interesting story where he mistakenly sees the villains as the virtuous ones, or something like that. It was also the only time I can think of off the top of my head where the villain was the underdog and needed to grow in order to even be a threat. Which seems to be what Marvel thinks its doing somehow with a character that is supposed to have universal powers far beyond the heroes and therefore isn't even an underdog.
people do argue that thanos was wrong, but i doubt they actually think about it much. just go with the obvious. for example, the titans told thanos his genocide was not naissessairy. i wonder what happened to them. the real issue is that what ever the danger thanos was trying to prevent is never going to be explained.
I think that you may be overlooking one issue:
-- They want these to fail.
They want your stories to break, so that you have no ideals upon which to model yourself. Give them "bread and circuses", and all that, but the problem is that these movies are our modern day circuses. If you take away that.....
I think you're almost correct, but I wouldn't say that they want three to fail.
They don't care about their financial success as long as their ideological goals are met is how I would put it.
@@MrBrachiatingApe Yeah, I could see that being the case.
The Roman Empire would approve
The film Gladiator 2000 has a scene where one of the Roman senators says this prophetic line: “Conjure magic for them and they’ll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they will roar. He’ll bring them death and they will love him for it.”
Still looking at it wrong. They dont care about you, its about your children. Bread and circus come in many forms due to technology, and if you are of the age of lets say 30+ you are obsolete BUT these films are catered to whom? Children. If they can brain wash them with foolishness, who cares about profit, mission accomplished
I think why Kang isn't ever gonna to be as effective is because he has already been killed twice. Once by female Loki, and again by a bunch of ants. So he is going to be more like a pest then a giant villain. Anytime he shows up he will just get killed. He's not a bear in your backyard. He's a colony of rabbits.
I feel my IQ goes up whenever I listen to Drinker's Chasers. Highly enjoy these deep nerdy discussions! :) Thanks from Florida
Same. It’s so interesting to listen to
i feel like most things hacm youtubers say about writing eventuly turns into an insult to my intelligence when they start i sisting that they are obnectively right about how stories should be written. like how the multiverse always removes stakes. or how you don't care about characters despite the fact that even hatting the way the story treated them peoves you do care.. etc
I really feel they missed an opportunity with Quantumania to kill Scott and have a real shock ending like infinity war. Imagine Cassie and everyone escapes but Scott and he’s just beaten to death by Kang. Would have had a lot more impact.
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Scott being killed would be pretty dark but I also think killing would also be the end of Paul Rudd as well in the MCU. It’s a double edged sword no matter how you slice it
@@chasehedges6775 but Rudd is also 53 this year so I don’t know how many more appearances he can do!
@@jaybo100 He should probably get out while he can
The Smith Neo fight scene was good I thought. Smith was out there, searching for Neo but was a two trick fighter,firing a gun and his right hand punch, which Neo showed he could defeat. That fight scene showed the real danger of Smith, which was his ability to take over others in the matrix and win by numbers.
Smith: Yes me. Me me me.
I think the real problem is they have 100 writers so there's little consistent plot
Too many chefs spoiling the soup, so to speak
@@chasehedges6775 And none of those chefs make good soup.
@@mudit7808 these mofos can’t even make instant ramen properly.
@@mudit7808
"And none of those chefs make good soup."
The worse problem than them making bad soup is none of them eat their own bad soup.
THAT is the tragedy of modern society.
Comics have had a bunch of problems stemming from these: Time Travel, Magic, Multiverses.
Its lazy writer hell and anyone with half a brain knows you can't have that many "undo" buttons and keep your worldbuilding consistent and interesting.
MCU huffs its own farts so much the writers there legit thought they'd be the ones to solve it.
I am a fantasy writer, and magic isn't a catch all if you write it right. Time travel and multiverses? Absolutely are.
@@JakobusMaximus Magic needs rules, a system created to bind the potentiality.
MCU magic did away with any hope of that "magic is just science we don't understand" quite early on.
@@meatpuppet5036 Very much so. And it is quite possible to have a nebulous magic system, as long as the author knows the rules and abides by them. For my worlds, magic is akin to a force or energy that, by default, enacts change in anything in comes in contact with. The reason magical energy is capable of doing things, is because of the will imposed on it while it is used.
In the MCU? It's a... well, it's magic.
I feel bad for all of them for trying to untangle this mess
Same. Marvel is just saddening now
Seeing people review the Downfall of the MCU is move entertaining tho
All I head in head was Plinkett's voice going, "No one's ever REALLLY gone." LOL
Having a multiverse in the MCU was the biggest mistake anyone could make. It diminishes any and all lasting consequences of past, present and future MCU due to the infinite amount of everything, so a hero dying or a villain winning now doesn’t impact the audience, it just leaves them thinking “nah, it’ll be fine. Our heroes will just enlist the help of the same person from another universe, or go and defeat the same hero that hasn’t won in their universe yet.”
To be fair…this conversation is why Kang is such a high-level threat in the Comics…there is an infinite number of Kangs which is why he is never defeated. I think the problem here is that the writer staff on the current Marvel movies are not up to the task of translating Kang believably into the movies…especially at a point where it seems the writing of the Marvel Cinematic Universe is declining. One could argue that even at its peak, the MCU might not have been able to adequately depict such a villain.
the real reason he's not defeated in the comics is because plot. there are planty of characters who cod wipe the multivedse and simply make a new one withouht kang... or some other hack solution.
"Mother! You're alive!"
The MCU creates the world building for that line of dialogue to appear. Now we wait.
The real problem as highlighted in this video is the issue of scale. We talking multiple infinite universes and timelines. The human brain cannot just comprehend that. Hence the stakes and motivations get muddled in the process.
I suppose they will use the incursions and a single battleworlr to simplify this, but if the aim is to simplify it why complicate it in the first place.
unless you have a masters degree in brains, please stop insisting you know the limits of human brains.after all, guess where the multiverse came from?
Kang identifies as Wile E Coyote
Rule #1 of multiverses: nothing matters anymore
This is how thoughtless the multiverse is.
- There is a multiverse where Kang destroyed the other timeline and one where he didn’t, and one where he lied bananas, and one where his hair was red….
I just want to say, as somebody with an interest in both the Dyatlov pass incident and the Dark Harvest Commando group and their attempted use of anthrax, I’m glad he wrote his book and look forwards to reading it
That's a good point. The stakes are so high its incomprehensible
At this point we technically met the "best" kang..the one in loki that won his war. Also met the worst kang the one they all kangbanged. So i guess we are waiting for one of the midrange kangs?? Trash writing. ... Kang could have been cool and could have been worth waiting for.... But that isnt what we got in any iteration yet.
no, we are waiting for anything as fun and interesting as a well writtw multiversal war
Disney going the Rick & Morty route with the multiverse is exactly what I feared... and the main reason why I didn't watch Into the Spiderverse.
Multiverse conflicts can be really compelling...if the characters we follow are interesting and forced to face such an existential situation head-on. One of my favorite animes, Bokurano, involves the grand conflict of one universe being forced to prune away others in crazy mecha battles, but focuses on each character's confronting their mortality and the morality of killing-or-being-killed.
How about Thor having to meet the Loki that is basically his brother, but without the growth that let Loki sacrifice himself for another? Or Janet in Antman 3 having actually accepted the deal ("my Hope is more meaningful to me than these countless others") and her not wanting her family to explore the quantum realm being that she doesn't want them to learn about her deal with the devil?
There was more thought put into this discussion of the MCU in 12 minutes than anything Disney and Marvel have done in the last 5 or 6 years.
Talking about the downfall of Marvel and Disney is easier than watching it or making it
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@@chasehedges6775
"Talking about the downfall of Marvel and Disney is easier than watching it or making it"
AND waaay more entertaining.
All 4 of my favorite RUclipsrs in one place (:
Gotta disagree about the matrix reloaded. Smith as a virus made him much more terrifying to me especially when he corrupted bane irl and in revolutions when he had all but corrupted the whole matrix. He was more than just one agent...he felt...inevitable.
Love how MauLer says as the end, "It's not even close to well-written". Also love your summaries sirs, both of you.
I want to see a super hero movie where the hero loses for a change.
If we ever get a fantastic 4 movie with a comic accurate doom you will.
Until then closest we’ll get to the heroes losing is the 2-part avengers finale.
Infinity War was that movie and that feels like a lifetime ago
End game distroyed any drama that could be gotten from a multiverse story. The return of Gamora saw to that.
It's honestly embarrassing that the CW handled their multiverse better than Marvel
MCU Phase 5 & 6: The Phase where Nothing Infinitely Happened.
Well. That's never been truer than now...
Kang is good in Secret Wars the comic . He is secondary to Dr Doom and doesn't try to take over all of the Beyonder's power . If Kang is made too powerful he's not effective as a member of a villain army which they should be setting up for Secret Wars.
I never thought id be actively skipping superhero movies en masse, yet here we are
They need to unite all the Scarlet Witches and have them whisper: No more Multiverse…
It doesn't make them stronger, it dilutes then.
So true.
I think Kang’s story should run very similar to how Jonathan Hickman wrote the Incursions but obv with differences being Kang is in it. This version of Nathaniel Richards finds out that the timelines are colliding causing both universes to be destroyed. He talks this over with the council of Kang’s but none of them believe him. The current movie universe is unknowingly about to collide with another universe and Kang sets out to destroy the MCU version. The Council get word of what is going to happen and defeats Kang and sends him to the quantum realm. This version has the mindset that the outcome justifies the means and will do whatever it takes to save as many universes as possible. This sets up a proper reason for Kang wanting to escape the quantum realm and would need to rely on Scott Lang and company to do so. Kang should be working with them the entire movie to defeat the evil villain MODOK and find a way to escape. Once they win and leave, Kang reveals his real plan and destroys the alternate universe and spares the MCU for now because of Scott helping him out. I think a very cool scene of Kang obliterating an entire universe would really set up how powerful he is. Now the plot moves forward and Scott has to assemble the Avengers to prepare for this threat. Edit: There are at first infinite timelines but due to the Incursions there it becomes finite and eventually leading down to a few left which is what leads up to the creation of Battleworld. I do wish y’all knew a bit more about the comic version of this stuff because you would understand the plot better.
I relate this Kang situation to what happen often in D&D and that's keeping villain tools out of reach of the heroes. If Kang showed up in 12 different films and the heroes had no understanding or better yet, no reason to suspect anything once they defeat him and no way to hop between dimensions, keep that purely as something the villain is able to do until you get to an Avengers movie where the heroes reminisce over their adventures until it dawn's on them they they all fought the same guy, and then realize it's not the same guy, but something more sinister as they all had different plots, goals, characteristics and that the Overlord or Kang Prime, whatever you wanna call him is sending Kang after Kang into our universe and the heroes have no way to traverse the dimensions to stop him. Then you have stakes because you don't have unlimited copies of the same hero running around, you have a centralized villain.
Using the Matrix analogy, part of the problem wasn't necessarily that there were a million Agent Smiths, that's terrifying. It was Neo becoming a one-man army ragdolling them around. If Neo was kept to scale and could beat 1 *maybe* 2 Smiths with some help, but 3 or more would surely overwhelm him the stakes would still exist. You'd have more reason to hide, pick your battles, etc. If you establish that maybe each copy is weaker than it's predecessor or in this case, not all Kangs are created equal, then you still have a sense of dread with the master shows up. It's like the Children of Thanos were to the big man himself just that they all look alike.
But again, the biggest issue is why do we care about these heroes or this universe. Unfortunately we have access to Tony's time portal, America Chavez, and who knows what other magical bullshit mcguffin they come up with. We've literally had 2 wishes in the form of the Book of the Vishanti and meeting Eternity in a single phase. Even if they're used one-offs it calls everything into question both past and future. Like shit, they could have brought the stones back from being atomized in the beginning of Endgame. That sounds pretty useful. But I digress. We need a reason to care. Even if it's, to steal a DC idea, that our universe is the literally the center of the multiverse and if it falls, then all others fall. Then we at least stakes for this universe. It still leaves the people within on the fence a bit, but it's at least a start for fixing this mess.
whe don't have to take away the heroes abity to travel the multjverse for this to worm. they certainly could i the comica
This was a surprisingly interesting conversation about the structure and psychology of storytelling. I saw the title which said the video was about superhero stuff, which does not interest me, but I’m glad I gave this video a chance because I do care about improving my storytelling abilities! Thank you!
Gladiator is a masterpiece of storytelling
This panel is the best cohort of after hours. Best dynamic, most interesting conversation and no cringy racist/bigoted jokes/comments.
We wuz literally Kangs?
I think the only CGI battles I've enjoyed are Avengers 1 and Infinity War. In Avengers the battle was cool because you get to see the heroes finally working together and it completes this sort of group arc for them. In infinity war it's interesting because there's this sense of impending doom and this question of "can they destroy the mind stone before Thanos shows up?"
Something that never gets mentioned with Thanos wiping out half of all living beings is that... Humans doubled our population in like 50 years. So his mass extermination resulted in... another 50 year delay. He can't even do it every x amount of time, as he destroyed the stones after doing it. Thanos was using the snap as an excuse.
Not to mention that She-Hulk can just jump into Disney menu and change everything with Android Kevin to be even more nonsensical then it was.
Once the concept of a multiverse was introduced it instantly diluted the brand. I think this was intended to address actors aging out of roles.
Kang is literally set to be like Team Rocket in the Pokemon anime.
Kang was always going to be a hard character to do an introduce just by how complex and convoluted his character and history is.
In other words... Kang always sucked? I agree
@@EnwardSnowman Honestly I like that he is a complex and convoluted mess but it works better in a medium like comics than movies.
You don't have to introduce Kang in his whole of everything. That's stupid and counterproductive. You introduce Rama-Tut or Immortus or any number of his other alter-egos, who each fight different heroes and then die. Go a few phases, and eventually the heroes notice that they keep 'killing' the same guy with different names and apparent methodologies during a big team up, and isn't that weird? (The audience notices sooner, of course.) Then you do some practical arc-welding to show that each instance of the guy achieved a portion of Kang's master plan (despite, or even because of, the heroic interference) and it comes to a head. The Big Damn Movie comes and they deal with Kang's plan once and for all.
You don't need a Kang for every villain, though. Just give him Stan Lee (or Raimi's Bruce Campbell) style cameos, so you know he's keeping his eye on things.
@@boobah5643 Never said you did
The main issue is that *every* new MCU movie there has to be an avengers level threat. Eventually it wear out it's welcome. What made the first MCU movies run so good was that they took the time to make some of the movies personal stories like how Iron Man's first movie was just him fighting for control of his company and learning to grow as a person, no universe ending level threat needed.
This highlights the difference between someone(Drinker) who is an actual writer, and someone(Disparu) who just wants a good story.
A good writer is tasked with creating identifiable protagonists and antagonists.
They are required to constantly ask how & why?
Why would a protagonist do this?
How would the villain react?
Why would the villain react that way?
What would the consequences of those reactions be?
And on, and on, and on....
Unless someone has actually taken the time and effort to write a coherent FICTIONAL story with a beginning, a middle, and an end, they will never understand what is truly involved.
I disagree.
Their points were actually very similar, that is, highlighting the absurdity and pointlessness behind the logic of multiverses.
In fact, Disparu was the first person who mentioned the pointlessness of multiverses at 01:47.
The Final Boss Kang in the MCU should have been a version that the Council of Kang has been hunting for a while due to him messing with the multiverse. He should have been elusive, dipped in and out of these movies and finally have been caught after a series of movies with a coalition of MCU and inter dimensional heroes and villains
Apparently the story for Kang Dynasty will make Kang the Hero and Dr Strange the villain.... I miss old movies where the villain was actually EVIL not misunderstood
The problem with multiverses is even deeper... because you end up with (conceptually, obviously, because they would already exist from a technical perspective) infinite universe inflation. The whole idea of multiverse is that there are an infinite number of possibilities - so for every universe that has interacted with another, there is another infinite number of ones that have not. And the number of universes that are NOT destroyed by a multiverse-ending event would also be infinite.
It’s sad when the lego games have better villains.
Lego kang built chronopolis, wielded Damocles like a sword in a giant battle, enlisted multiple villains including the red king, modok, alchemax, kingpin and friggin KORVAC. Even when the avengers beat korvac and counter kang’s chronomancy with the eye of agamotto, he still would have won if he didn’t have a sense of showmanship and demanded a giant battle with captain America.
I'm sure it will end with the Avengers convincing Kang the virtues of a simple life. Then all variations of him going forward just become farmers.
The problem with Kang, the man that killed all the avengers throughout multiple universes is that he lost to ants... freaking ants... where were they when they were fighting Thanos? Infinity stones, my rear end, those ants can't be stopped...
One random thought I had about kang, you could still have him be a multiversal being but a way to make him far more menacing is that you could make this kang the primary one who hunts his variants and absorbs them, show him doing this in the background becoming more and more powerful over the course of a few movies until only one remains.
Kind of a stolen plot point from jet li's movie "the one" but it does solve the problem of a dilute villain, it also solved the lack of an end goal for the villain, and it also gives the heroes a clear thing to prevent
So, I don't think Kang is necessarily a bad antagonist and I very much liked Jonathan Majors' portrayal. That being said: here's three weird things we talked about when leaving the cinema:
1. 'Janet thinks she's in a French horror-movie' - Why is Janet not talking, like ... at all? Every of the 15 opportunities she has to protect and inform her family about Kang, she remains tight lipped. It grew to the point where we were wondering out loud in the cinema if she was luring her husband and son in law into trap deliberately, just to be able to run off with Bill Murray. (lol)
2. 'Kang, Kang, who the ... Kang' - Kang can be a cool character, just like MODOK. But to the average lay person he is no more than his powers and ambitions. Is he fighting for something, or just the universe's biggest narcissist? The only thing that makes us connect to him is Majors' great portrayal and acting skills, but other than that there's little to go by. (or did I miss that part?) More interaction between Janet and Kang would have been the best way to explain this, him 'opening up' because of being isolated for so long, or because of manipulating Janet into action. Missed opportunity there...
3. 'The Kang Bang': having all 'Kang's' band together in the first movie already .... Perhaps they were thinking primarily of how 'cool it would look' aesthetically, or that it would drive home what kind of being he is. But - If I remember correctly from the comics - all Kang variants hate eachother just as much (if not more) as they hate our protagonists. They would have been doing eachother in at the first chance. It would have been better if one got killed/beaten and another one appeared waiting in the wings to take advantage of the situation.
He is an interesting character, and this idea of 'gaming the system' by having all these variants lurking around, looking to capitalize upon opportunities is really cool. But in a movie that - let's be honest - already was asking a lot of our imagination (let alone non-comic book readers), the Kang-Squad was a step too far. As for the ending: I would have left the Ant and Wasp in the Quantum-realm, leaving the matter unresolved. I had this brief moment where I thought: imagine Rudd becoming the new king of the realm, expanding it with his ant-armies. That would have been a fun start to a next movie, having to come down from the throne then.
No way about his acting part, Jonathan's portrayal and acting are both meh and not interesting at all, he was constantly chewing in between lines and his appearance just don't feel like Kang in the comics.
Yeah, I keep seeing people say Majors is a great actor-- And I am left perplexed at this notion. I wouldn't say he's bad. But good Lord there are scores of other actors who could do this role better.
@@thomas5a042 Noticed that yes, and perhaps you have a point. But not knowing the actor beforehand, I saw both gravitas and an ability to portray his ‘human form’ well. But right when you think: here comes his motivation, the script really didn’t give him that much to work with. But that’s a larger scale problem: the one-up-manship that is most definitely a staple of Marvel (we have to have bigger stakes and a bigger baddie for the next one, ultimately leading to the Superman-conundrum) creates - to me at least - stakes that are so far from individual, everyday life that it just becomes insignificant.
With Thanos they did a great job of having him already hover over the lifes of the characters for a while. Plus - in the end - it is the story about him and his daughters. But where do you go after that? The answer: take a step back, reduce and build again. You can’t build a peak on a peak.
But the creators thought: oh that’s clever, we can solve this all and make the universe even bigger with this time travel/quantum realm thing. But that’s the danger of not just brushing against the idea of time-travel/other realms (which Days of Future Past did much more elegantly I think, as did Loki to a degree) but really leaning into it and basing your universe around it.
Here it results in Kang not even coming close to being the heavyweight he is in the comics, because his power = motivation = power = etc. I never really grasp what he’s about.
Anyways: no fanboy, but Majors’ portrayal was something I quite liked.
@@CleverGirlAAH Sure, there’s names. Didn’t mind it, and saw potential. That’s not to say he was set up right (see other comment).
How about MODOK not being attached to HYDRA though? It was a cute idea, but then I’m left thinking of Krang being the one part I liked in that last TMNT-movie, and just how menacing that figure was compared to this ‘little henchman’. 🥸
I’m pretty much at the same stage with the MCU as I am with WWE.
I know it’s best days are past and, although it’s still on, the only interaction I have with it are infrequent RUclips clips where an old character returns or something moderately interesting happens.
The last Kang of Scotland
I have always said that they should have used the snap to kill off all the "main" avengers that had completed their arcs or wanted to retire their roles, and continued on with the newer avengers that had more recently been introduced.
It would even give them a better reason to introduce new characters.
With a new group of "main avengers"
Maybe Spiderman, Black Panther, Ant Man etc
a completely new era of Marvel movies.
Hopefully there's an alternate timeline where they did that.
It is hard to get invested in a character when they can just pick another version from another universe.
The first biggest mistake I never hear talked about is the Sokovia accords. The avengers literally saved the planet from a giant landmass falling to the surface and wiping out all human life and yet they get crapped on for a couple einnocebts dying in the process. And they also get crap for the alien invasion in New York and how some civilians were hurt and property was destroyed really??? They saved you from annihilation!! Scarlet witch, in case is an explosion and massively packed shopping area and tries to get rid of it and explosion in overtly killed a few people in a building. Yet she’s deemed as evil she literally saved three or four times as many people as she accidentally killed.
As to an infinite number of universes diluting the stakes: even Joss Whedon knew that you can't care about an entire city being destroyed...but you can care about a waitress.
"you can't care about a city being destroyed"? really? do you even actuly care about the waitress or is she just fodder for your bull shit argument.
@@johnymustacio Welcome to Storytelling 101.
The audience can't care about 100,000 people, except in the abstract, which isn't nearly as impactful as the specific.
This is why we see that waitress a few times during Avengers, instead of one person three times, or thousands of people a bunch of times. That's just a mass of people we really can't be moved by.
Need a better example? Red Coat Girl from Schindler's List. As Schindler watches the clearing of hundreds of people from the ghetto, one girl catches his eye, the Red Coat Girl, as she walks through the chaos, with killing all around her. She makes her way to what might be her house, and we see her hide under her bed.
It's a miracle! we are allowed to think. The Red Coat Girl has escaped.
In a later scene, the Red Coat Girl is just one of dozens (hundreds?) of bodies on a pyre.
The killing of masses is too overwhelming for us to comprehend. The killing of one has impact.
Here endeth the lesson. Glad to have taught you something about the bullshit of storytelling.
@@GreatUSTreasureHunt what does caring in the abstract mean? why 10000, where do you draw the line between caring and not? why don't you care about PEO0LE, you monster. i bet you don't even remember wonder woman killed ares at the ende of her movie. that "killing of one" had so lite impact i bet i'm the only one making the comparison between that ond man of steel killing zod. get outa here with your bs
@@johnymustacio If you don't understand basic English, you can't learn. So you should get out and return when you grasp common terminology.
(I'm assuming you're returning months from now, when you've learned English more gooder.)
In the movie Wonder Woman, you've blundered the message by thinking that because Ares is one person, we were supposed to care about him. I guess. But because you missed the point entirely, I'll explain how you've gotten it wrong.
It's not Ares we were supposed to care about, it was the VILLAGE. You had the perfect opportunity to draw an analogy from a movie you almost understood, and you blew it.
The village that Wonder Woman saved, with the people she met, the place she danced, the inn where she banged Steve Trevor...that village was DESTROYED later by the German gas attack. It's a stand-in for all the places that war destroys.
But it's hard to be emotional about the masses, so that movie made you care about that one special village. Wonder Woman learned about futility...she saved it, but she couldn't save it.
You almost had it.
Just kidding. You weren't anywhere close. But you gave me another opportunity to school you. And it's unlikely you'll have learned anything this time, either.
But people reading this far will be able to relate how hard it is to educate the mass of idiots in this world, because of how hard it is to educate you. You are a stand-in for every nitwit in the world who either can't be taught or refuses to learn.
But we have to keep trying to teach you, because if we can teach even one nitwit, the world will be a better place.
I mean, the multiverse is the reason why Rick is so depressed, he having easy access to the multiverse makes everything meaningless
You guys should do some sort of script. With the new unreal engine 5 coming out, you could def do something 90's level in effects. At least storyboard something. As a monthly or something. Get a plotline from the crowd. Do a vote. Aliens, zombies, whatever.
You'll probably get a thousand and one good ideas - but it has to be crammed into 1hr 30mins. Which would be the challenge.