That's a very good point. Each guitar is a bit different and requires a different sort of setup. There are a lot of factors involved including the scale length and the gauge of string and the type of guitar and the purpose and how you want to play it.
I believe you’re absolutely correct. One of my strats absolutely hates .09s and feels right with .10s and lowish action but not too low. Once I found the sweet spot for the setup it’s as slinky as any guitar.
Indeed. I have a Fender Mustang. Because it is short scale, .09s just don't do well with it. Even a set of .10s don't agree completely with it. I have to use .11s, but because it's short scale, the strings don't feel that heavy at all. Also, switching to .11s almost completely got rid of the pesky tuning issues associated with the Dynamic Vibrato (well, alongside lowering the springs inside the vibrato). Since switching, this guitar has been an absolute beast to play.
Any guitar tech that tries to push you for higher action is usually scared of doing actual fret work. Action is a personal preference and as long as there are no major problems with the guitar, they can be adjusted to have non of the issues talked about in this video
Precisely, low action obviously needs that truss rod and fret leveling set properly for no fret buzz… once you’re dialed in the rest depends on the player and how hard or soft they pick their strings.
PS ~ I’m stating the obvious here but the nut set as well….. I tend to cut my slots a ‘touch’ high for wear so it’s not being replaced again, and I really mean just a fraction too.
What he says about acoustic guitars is true , the distance of the strings with the top works in a different way, is not only about the neck , is about the vibration of the strings in reference with the top , they need to be at a certain optimal distance to maximize the clarity and projection of the guitar , the strings and how sound is produced is not the same in acoustics than in electrics. I like a low action in all my electrics but I learnt to have medium action in acoustics bc the sound is affected as he says , of course is a question of taste at the end but it's supposed that most of the people likes clarity and projection , in my case the projection is not a big deal bc I play at home but I need my guitar to sound as cleaar as possible is a compulsory course haha , but I think most of us have the same thing about clarity in acoustics. The first time I've lowered the action of my Taylor I couldn't believe how much clarity and volume I lost , to the point of buying another saddle and of course I still lowered the action but just to medium action . I live in London and it was bc the humidity that comes with seasonal changes that I decided to lower the action of that guitar bc it's the guitar that I usually have out of the case and she suffer with the humidity . My preference is low action in electrics , medium action in acoustics and if I had to go on a stage probably I wouldn't touch the guitar as it comes from the builder .
@Old-Skull. No, you lowered your action the wrong way, thats why it killed the tone. Ever heard of a neck reset? Look it up, the pitch(angle) of the neck is what ultimate has to be adjusted in situations like that. All old martins eventually had the necks taken off and re set at a better angle. Fortunately for taylor owners rhey are bolt on necks and the angle is obtained with a shim. If you ever played modern high end acoustics that cost in the 10's of thousands you'll see what happens when luthiers take their time
Low action can be such an addictive thing to chase when you have that one guitar that’s such a joy to play and the others are a mystery of high action and high tension
Man, I love this channel. I’ve been playing the guitar since I was 14 to 15 years old now I’m in my early 40s and still playing and I would love to come check out your store every time I watch your videos. I’m always looking behind you at all the wonderful instruments. Keep up the good work.
@@liberalsrmentallyflawed3611 I was shocked to find this store an hour down the road. In the town I used to work in. I need to take a ride to have them set up my Les Paul Junior with my new music city bridge and posts. I could attempt it, but I want it dialed in by a competent shop. The one near me seems to be of the snobbish variety and I always feel like they would give me the cursory treatment.
I agree with Tommy Emmanuel. He sets his acoustics as low as he can get it. He says it’s pointless to have a guitar that’s difficult to play with high action. He adjusts his truss rod himself frequently due to his travel schedule and has demonstrated how easy it is.
I played a guitar Jerry Reed had owned once and it was well under 1mm on the high E. Those guys knew how to make everything easier on themselves but it takes some work getting any guitar that low, without finding buzzes..
@alfsmith4936 just a fret level and sand the nut and bridge. There are some 4 wheels thingys just for that. 30 bucks on ebay. Bone nut+bridge cost like 5 or 7 bucks.
Can you play as CRAZY FAST & ARTICULATE as "Tommy Emmanuel"? I highly doubt it, and not very many guitarists can. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE & ADMIRE Tommy Emmanuel. He's got to be one of, if not THE BEST acoustic guitarist's alive. ( He's a killer electric player too, of course. ) But if you listen VERY closely, you WILL hear the lack of sheer tone often......not always, but fairly often. Slight "buzzing" here and there, especially when he's playing his fastest stuff. Tommy is willing to make that trade-off because HE HAS TO in order to make the action low enough to play the crazy fast & articulate things that he does. Case in point: COMPARE the acoustic tone of Tommy Emmanuel against the tone of BRIAN SUTTON, or JEDD HUGHES, or even Tom Bukovac.........anyone with ears will very quickly hear the difference. Tommy IS "faster" than those guys, but his tone is not as great. THAT is the trade-off for Tommy's style of playing, and it makes him unique. By the way: I'm a 63 yr old lifelong guitarist/singer/blues harp player. I began playing guitar by age 12 and gigged professionally all over east/central Florida for about 25 yrs. I started out with both electric and acoustic, gigged mostly electric playing rock & roll and blues, and then went back to my roots of only acoustic gigs for the last 9 years of my gigging days. I still sing & play only acoustic today. I prefer a medium/low action. Even I can hear the loss of tone & volume with my high-end acoustic's if the action is too low. The man in this video is 100% right. But in my earlier days of playing guitar, I would've argued with him all day long. That's because I wasn't the guitarist that I became later on.
@@howabouthetruth2157Agreed. Tommy’s setup does produce some buzz. But I’ve seen videos of Brian and Tommy playing together and both their guitars sound great.
@@howabouthetruth2157 Which just proves that you don't have to eliminate all noise to play beautifully and even entertain others. And I'd argue as well you don't have to be anywhere close to Tommy in skill. You just have to play what _you_ play well.
For those in hard rock bands, low action also tends to clank against the frets during live shows when you’re digging in. You have to hit the strings lightly, which is hard to do when you’re moving around and rocking out on a stage.
I have Squier Strats. They are good enough for me. I play .007 strings with the lowest action possible. I set up my own guitars. I used to measure everything. Now I do it by feel.
@@kilgoretrout321 That's where picking technique comes in. Nines are the perfect size after getting used to them. They're highly responsive. Bends, harmonics, tapping, tremolo, barre chords.....all much easier on a thinner gauge.
I’m down to one guitar, since ageism took away my opportunities. A cheap Ashton ( cost me 60 bucks) Recently lowered the action after 15 years. Slight buzzes on certain frets but because I only use it for writing songs (Space Engineer, To Be Loved) it’s just perfect. Love the new comfort it gives me. Wish I’d done it sooner.
I have a light touch, I also have had 7 surgeries for carpal tunnel and trigger finger. My action barely touches the frets. I live in NY and the weather fluctuates a lot but I never have to adjust the truss rod or the height of my bridge. I love it low.
I have bad tendonitis. Action needs to be low as possible. If regular action, you might as well hit me up side of the head with the guitar cause thats the only sound i'll get out of it.
When I was starting out on guitar we didn’t have a thing called “ low action”…. We played “ Silvertones and Kay “ guitars with the strings 2 inches off the fretboard “ uphill” in a “ snowstorm” both ways until our fingers blistered …and we loved it wether we liked it or not….Thanks Mark ❤️, …now smash that like button folks 👍
I Know What You Mean!Most Recently,I Resurrected a 1962 K Leader guitar.It Came from the factory,with the Trapeze bridge,literally off centered from the neck by a String!Yes just 5 strings went across the fretboard neck!😮What!Gave this guitar the works!Put 3 shims,in the neck,and had to shim up the bone nut!😮D 5 deoxit electronic sprayed the Controls to Life,not Death!😅Changed out the Vintage tone caps and put in some PIO vintage .022 vintage white Russian tone caps!Cleaned it up!The person I fixed this for was there Fathers and was in the Closet stored for years,till,now!I'm Happy and the person is just so Happy!And This Guitar,Has LOW Playing Action.,And it Does Not SUCK!I Guess you like Vise Grips for Fingers to play!Ha!😮Take care with The Vise Grip Guitars,cause there are a Lot out There!😊
My first guitar was a Mexican acoustic my folks got in some border town. High action, heavy strings. It's amazing I got past that, but they came through later with a Melody Maker and a mahogany Gibson acoustic.
Those early 80's Sears import guitars some of my friends had scarred me for life. When that crap started getting popular in the hipster market I wanted to smash them all. I've calmed down now but they're still not "cool". Made from dozens of scrap blocks glued together... Yuk! They made my Peavey T-25 look like a dream machine. LOL
My take: The real reason to use a minimal action setup (not necessarily ‘low’), particularly on acoustics (‘guitare sèche’ - ‘dry guitar’ in French - love that) has nothing to do with fretting or projection, but rather with intonation. The more travel from un-fretted to fretted, the more the rise in pitch and subsequent intonation issues. These issues magnify as the action raises while closing a shorter string length as we shift up the fretboard. This is a fretting problem, fretless instruments - like our double basses - just adjust intonation on the fly with left hand placement. One tip I can offer therefore is to try to play as if there were no frets. Stretch to get all fretting fingertips right on the frets, and less fretting force will be necessary, improving intonation and grip comfort. The real strength we need to develop is positional - holding correct left hand position is lots of work. Guitar (many instruments actually) is a lot like yoga in this way. New poses are awkward and painful until you develop some of those stabilizer muscles to hold that unfamiliar gesture. Learn to enjoy overcoming that weakness, bit by bit. Last advice, playing music is more like brushing your teeth than going to the dentist. Do it at least a bit everyday, rather than an intense session every once in a while. 😊
What you say may be right for acoustic guitars, but on electric guitars with six adjustable saddles, intonation can be set to compensate for different actions though.
I have an ES-335 that I bought new in the '80s and it has an incredibly straight neck. I used to use 9 gauge strings and I got the action down to an extremely low level and it worked really well for the kind of music I used to play back then. As an older fellow now I have switched to 10 gauge and it just feels better. I've also raised the action because I like to bend notes a lot more. The simple truth is when you like bending you have to have the action HIGHER, so that when you slide your finger you don't go over top of the string. It allows you to grip the side of the string better and control the bend. You want to have the action high enough whereby when you make the bend you don't go over the top of the string. Too high and you go under the string... you want to have a really nice push of the string up or down depending on how you're bending and it gives you better control. That's all there is to it.
The ES-335 is a unicorn, though. People I play with think my 345 has much lighter gauge strings on it than there are because it’s so easy to play. Not so on my other guitars (I love them too).
Agreed. There’s a happy medium sweet-spot of not especially low and not especially high for properly articulating on bluesy or country bends. It’s likely higher than most people asking for a setup expect, but not so high that it’s uncomfortable either.
Some very wise thoughts here. Take your journey as a teenager would. Being in my 50s I constantly try to compensate with money and intellect, buying new gear and understanding theory and physics while I actually should just play. Don't forget, as a teenager you also have more friends to practice with or play in a garage band.
@@RayStratos4489 I am past retirement age. I study this. It is true. What happened to us is that when we got married we lost all our friends. Women do that. They feel a compulsion to dominate. I am well aware of the issues that you guys are challenged with. One of my best buddies is in his 30s. He is never getting married. As challenging as our women were your challenges are far greater. I have a suggestion. Take your friends where you find them. They might be old guys. Old guys know a lot of interesting stuff that will soon be lost to history since every generation thinks they know everything. We thought that too.
I'm in my 50s too, and still basically a learner. When I was guitar shopping, I could just about afford a more expensive guitar and, since I never do, I thought I might treat myself. Then I got a little hung up for a while on how to make this uncharacteristically big purchase so I'd end up with the perfect guitar. The thing is, I couldn't help noticing that when I played cheaper guitars in guitar shops, the staff would sometimes take them and casually reel of some great playing, proving that ultimately it was ability that mattered. Then I watched a Rick Beato interview where he described learning as a teenager on a super-cheap guitar. I thought, yeah, screw it, just get something affordable but decent and get good. As it happened, at that point, I found an inexpensive guitar, the Yamaha FG-800M, that isn't just decent, it's bloody great, so I bought that and no regrets. But the point still stands and I had other options that would've been fine, e.g. the Cort Earth 100. The only thing to stress is, it does have to be decent. Bad gear is bad gear. When I actually was a teenager and not just trying to learn to play like one, I had a cheap acoustic that hurt like hell to play, which is probably why I've only circled back to this now.
You are spot on. I'm a jazz guitarist and have been playing for over 50 years. When I started learning to play rock back in the 70's my first guitar had high action with those horrible Black Diamond strings on it. My fingers hurt so bad. A high school friend of mine and guitarist got me on to some Ernie Ball 008 and then lowered the action like he had his. What a difference. But years later after I got into jazz a la Pat Martino and others and started playing on an archtop, there's no way in hell those 008 and low action sounded right on that archtop. Today I use 13s and a medium action. The strings resonate better and I have better control over the dynamics and tone with a higher action. I also have a Tele for kicks and string it with 11s and a medium action.
I'm 75. I have arthritis, plus nerve damage to my fretting hand from several accidents. Playing single note lines is one thing, but playing fingerstyle, and trying to keep it clean, while playing old standards, does not work with a high action. In fact, I perform mostly with a Godin nylon string electric/acoustic. Which reminds me, it's been said that Segovia was asked by a guitar maker what they could do to make their guitars sound better, and he supposedly replied, "make them easier to play." Of course, there are limits, and different styles of playing. But if I can't make those chords cleanly, it sounds like crap.
I like the notion that you shouldn't take an intellectual approach to playing guitar! Brilliant advice. As for action, every guitar has its own happy point.
@@cashway0420 Each to their own. The thing is, a guitarist can learn practically, and those elements that are covered in theory form part of the learning, albeit through discovery rather than formal teaching. The end result is someone who understands exactly what they're doing, and can apply that in practical situations. Of course learning to read sheet music, tab etc. has its place, and readers may have an advantage over those of us who don't read; but that doesn't necessarily make them better guitarists.
@@1man1guitarletsgo To flat out say you shouldn't take an intellectual approach though is horrible advice to any new musician. Knowledge will ALWAYS benefit you
Low action at the nut (without buzzing) is the secret to perfect intonation and will also make a guitar play like butter. Check intonation at 1st & 2nd frets to see it its set correctly. 😉
My Fender CD60M is set up a tiny bit high, I could probably just adjust the tension rod about a half turn. but I love the tone that I get from it as is. No pain, no gain.😅 Great video. I learned a little bit more about acoustic guitars. Good luck.
Funny story. I was building rock n roll archtops. A friend of mine, a Tele' player. Well known in local circles, asks me to build him a Les Paul style guitar with a fender style neck. I build it. Slammed the strings down nice & tight, to impress him. He grabs it, plays it for a second & starts screwing the bridge up away from the body of the guitar. In shock, I'm watching him do this. I pick up the guitar after he's done playing it. Damn, there that Tele' Slap he gets. It's in the string height!!!!
More specifically, it's in the distance from the pickup to the strings. Changing the strength of the magnetic field the strings are vibrating thru will change the tone. Changing the height the strings are sitting off of the fret will not (as long as the pickup is still the same distance).
Most players arent super worried about ridiculously low action on acoustic guitars. I think most of the time, they are frustrated by poorly built, poorly designed, and poorly set up acoustic guitars. So they say they want the action as low as possible, because they dont want to continue to fight the guitar. As far as electric guitars are concerned, a low action isnt desired as much for the ease of play as it is for the precision of the technique. A player that gets to the level of being a shredder certainly has developed his hands and fingers and callouses and can obviously play. At that point, the technique being the same across the fretboard becomes the important thing. This whole outdated and goofy idea that you should have to fight the instrument to play it is ridiculous. "Vintage" instruments as a whole were poorly built and designed compared to today. I know people like to romanticize these pieces of junk because of their rarity, but for the most part, they suck. They dont design pianos with tension wheels on the keys because its some badge of honor to fight the instrument. You arent considered a better drummer if you wear wrist weights while playing. Its an old fashioned nonsensical idea to think a player must put up with that crap. Basically the same as yelling at kids to get off your lawn.
I agree but either way you’re fighting and exerting some force to play a guitar. There is something about larger strings and higher action that make a different playing style come out. My compound radius tele is so shredy and easy to play but sometimes something just comes out from my vintage dalelectro that has higher action. Like I’ve come up with riffs that I knew I wouldn’t have on my tele because I know I’m having to focus more not to screw up if that makes sense? We have to except that while guitars can be made better, none of them are perfect.
@TommyDaleCooper i get what you are saying. But im not talking about sl8ghtly higher but still playable action, and i didnt really mention string gauge. Most people dont complain about a slightly higher action. They complain about the action because its substantially different, and it affects technique.
Often when I hear someone gush over low action, a voice inside me says NOOB ALERT Amongst other things, higher action is better for muting strings next to fretted strings imho
Whenever I see a guitar for sale listed as having "super low action" I immediately think that will need a set up adjustment before I start regularly using it!
Check out Tony Rice on a sub 2mm setup Martin acoustic. It takes more skill to play loud, with no buzzing on a low action guitar but it can be done and it makes stretching easier.
I got to say...I love your videos and the information you provide. I've only been playing for two years and am a later in life player. Thanks for helping the old guys and gals!!
Great tip about adjusting the truss rod through the year! I live in PA, and I adjust mine seasonally. The guitars literally tell me they need it, because they don't play right. I used to be the guy that wanted my action as low as possible, but I stopped that. I don't like it super high either, so I shoose the middle ground. And in the end, it's more fun because I'm not wasting time trying to fight the guitar all the time. Each guitar is like a person with its own quirks, and you have to learn them to get along with it. You can't get to do something it wasn't meant to do - or won't do. That's why when I try out a guitar, I spend more that 10 minutes with it. And while I choose a guitar based on looks, I always keep that at the bottom of my list to keep from impulse buying.
I like low action. Even after 20 years of playing, it's still hard to play on higher action or thicker strings. When I switched from 10s down to 9s, it was like I could finally play guitar the way I wanted. I could actually bend the strings somewhat comfortably. All of my guitars get looked at by the local luthier, he'll work on the frets and make sure the nut is cut properly, do any electrical work I want, but then I can maintain it afterwards with any adjustments that are needed. It all depends on the player, I have small, skinny hands so I prefer things to be easier, but I have a friend with hands way bigger than mine so he'd have different preferences, and my one friend said he plays with like 12s or 13s in standard tuning. If the player is comfortable on their instrument then there's no issue. 😊
The notion of a higher action on an acoustic putting significantly greater pressure on the bridge to supposedly improve tone and increase volume is questionable to say the least. It is the ability of the string to swing around and vibrate more from having been plucked harder and having more room to swing about, regardless of neck relief, which will cause the difference. Let's look at some facts to confirm this... If we tune a bottom E string of .046 gauge up to concert pitch, it will typically exert 17.5 lbs of pressure along the string. Drop that tuning down an entire tone to D, and the tension along the string decreases to 13.9 lbs. Thus we can see that there is only an increase of 3.4 lbs pressure down an open string (not down on the bridge) when going up an entire tone and it will typically take a full wind or two on the machine head to manage that. So do we really think pushing a string down a millimetre more is going to massively increase pressure on the bridge? Unless your action is so high that it is pitching the notes up noticeably when fretting, which would of course make the thing unplayable in terms of intonation, there is clearly not going to be very much increase in pressure on the bridge when fretting a note as opposed to it being played open. In fact, common sense tells us that if there was a huge difference, open chords with some fretted notes would be all over the place volume-wise.
Yep. In his instructional video (from the late 1980s?) he shows that he keeps his guitars tuned down a half step because it allows for high action with low tension. 🎸
I always heard when you’re young you can easily learn new things, when you’re older you can easily pick up similar ideas and expand your knowledge of what you already know
The string heights should be set as evenly along the length the fretboard as possible. Thats more important than getting them as low as possible. If the nut slots are cut properly for the strings you prefer. It will be relatively easy, to dial in the slightest amout of taper away from the nut. If the strings are a mile high at the opposite end of the guitar. Start by getting them as close to level as possible, first. Then and only then, can you accurately judge how much lower you can take them. Depending on how hard you dig in and play. Will be the only gauge you'll need to figure out how low you can take the action before the strings choke out. This will be different for everyone. Players that insist on having the action ultra low on all different styles of guitars. Are generally not taking into consideration the nuances each different style of construction might dictate. Always conform to the guitar. Trying to force the guitar to fall within a given generic spec of action. Is a waste of time. Treat each one as its own beast. Thats needs its own tweaks to be optimal. Peace!
Depends on the strings you prefer. One of my pet peeves is when these supposedly "expert" screwtubers. Review a guitar and complain that the set up isn't how they prefer it. If it's too low, it's much harder to deal with. Manufacturers are going to put a preslotted off the shelf nut, with a standard part number. On virtually every guitar on the market that's not Customshop or low volume production. The average player can barely change their own strings. Let alone get them anywhere near flat along the length of the fretboard. But they'll rail against the first mass produced import that touches they're "expert" hands. Claiming that's why real players wouldn't bother with such trash. It's sad actually. We're living in a guilded age of guitars. Where the average joe can spend a few hundo on just about any decent brand. And expect to get really great guitars for around $500. With a little knowledge and TLC almost any decent model can be made to play and sound perfectly good. Peace!
I have played John Petrucci's personal guitars backstage, and played Tommy Emmanuel's personal gigging Maton. They are super super low. JP's was so low you couldn't play an open position chord. That is part of why they can play that quick. That is their preference. I have some guitars set up higher bc of open tunings, some set up for slide, some set up for playing quick. If I'm going for vocal like sustain and bending, I'm at 3mm/2mm bass & treble w 10s.
In the late 70s and 80s, there was a surge of interest in niche bookstores that offered a variety of unusual and unconventional topics. Today, social media has taken over that space, allowing individuals to share bizarre claims, like the supposed benefits of consuming decaying wood to boost cognitive function. As a result, some people are inclined to explore these ideas, often following trends without question. The trend reflects a broader cultural shift where easy access to information can lead to both irrational beliefs and practical experimentation. On a more personal note, my experience with musical instruments illustrates a common-sense approach to problem-solving. i transitioned from playing guitar to ukulele, finding that tuning the ukulele down helped prolong the life of the strings. This practical decision worked for me, leading to a better playing experience. Let's also note the importance of experimenting and learning through personal experience in order to uncover effective solutions. Ultimately, the emphasis is on a rational mindset when navigating new ideas or challenges, rather than blindly following trends. Combined with the open mindedness of a youngster
I cannot string bend at all with low action. The adjacent strings just slip under my fingers instead of being pushed out of the way. Med to med/high-ish works best for me. I don't even measure anymore. I set the action by feel. Great vid!
That happens to me, too. Also, I like the tone of 10s on my tele better than 9s but tendonitis in the carpal tunnel has forced me to stick with 9s. I have short fingers so the 9s help to minimizing the degree of finger motion and required force.
Exactly - if you have a medium action, the strings (especially going up the fretboard) are much easier to grab and bend. Too low and you get exactly what you just said. Too high is also bad - you can't play fast if its too high and it can be painful as well - even with built up callouses.
I agree with every word you said in this video. I learned guitar on super high actions and heavy strings when I was 12. Later I'd learn to set guitars up myself but learned that I like a medium action, and like not having to deal too much with fret buzz. Also, the "wicked smart" line immediately resonated with me as a New Englander. Cheers from Medford, MA!
if you bend a lot a med action is probably easier. I keep my electrics med/low 1.65 low E and 1.5 high E on most of them and yea in AR I have to adjust some of the necks two or three times a year. In regards to my bass setups you can't get it too high or the intonation won't be correct on the higher frets but yea too low and you get that piano type sound, which I like on my Jazz but it's not for everyone. Loving your channel!
Whenever I feel my electric guitars action getting higher.. ill play my classical/nylon for a few minutes. And voila electric feels planted to the fretboard again lol
For me at 55 over the last 5 or so years I've found that on my 59 Les Paul reissue"s on my thicker neck guitar's I like my action lower but on the thinner neck's I like the action a little higher or I adjust the neck relief somewhat..I have been setting up my own guitar"s the last 5 years not to save money..but yes lol but to learn my Instrument as well ...Anything I would feel majorly uncomfortable with I would absolutely take it in for a Pro setup..But a Great topic to talk about for sure for all ages no doubt and all Guitar's as well as far as styles of playing/ Acoustic, Electric etc ..A lot to consider when you really break it down..I'm really starting to enjoy this Channel Thanks for the Great Content 👍😎
Whether you agree or not this cat knows what he speaks about and deserves respect for sharing his wisdom. Thank you sir. Personally I go as low as I can until I start getting into issues. (Fret buzz, strings prevented from fully vibrating etc) some of my guitars are really low and others not so much. It’s kind of unique to each instrument
as a guitar tech who works with prewar martin guitars, i get the neck relief at 5 thousandths (measured at the fifth fret, by martin specification), first fret action at the treble strings 10 thousandths, and first fret action at the bass side at 15 thousandths, and 50 thousandths at the high E and 70 thousandths at the low E, strung up with 13-56, and its never been a problem with my heavy handed fellow bluegrass customers. no buzz or change to tone. easy action = easier playing = consistency = better overall tone. tony rice, who had some of the greatest acoustic guitar tone in history, had insanely low action, but stellar tone.
I vaguely remember thinking guitar was physically painful when I was young. But I was playing a poorly set up steel string acoustic. And then a poorly set up bass. But I don’t remember it EVER being uncomfortable playing decent electrics? Is that really a thing? I’m not sure it SHOULD be painful. I play guitar daily and am pretty sure I only have callouses when I’m also rock climbing regularly?
I love my old tendons too much for high action. In case your wondering...that red and white one behind him on right is a Danalelctro. I had a baritone Dano I was trying to bend notes on too much...OUCH! 13-72 gauge.
Exactly, low action isn't just for shredding, it's for ease of playing so you don't injure your hands playing for long hours and decades of playing. Hands are prone to injuries like tendinitis and arthritis.
Ive had a few acoustics that had terrible intonation at the 12th fret. Lowering at the saddle improved this to the point it was spot on. The loss in volume was minimal.
I was told by a widely respected luthier in new york city that to keep my gibson ES 335 intoning i have to keep my nut low. This dosnt work out well because if i raise my action either from bowing the neck from the truss rod or raising the bridge via the adjustment the string pitch gradient is steep, low and angles higher up the neck.
Definitely the nut has to be at the right height, and then there's only one right hike for intonation's purposes. The saddle is on the other end and can be set to different heights
@@GarysGuitarsUSA Then if for any one 335 there is a correct nut height for intonation then I would have to trust my luthier's assessment of that and based on my ears. The guitar is over 55 years old and I've had it maintained by a few different people over the years. I don't think it intones as well as it did when it was 20 years old. Once it was 8 or 9 years old I had it re-fretted with different type of fret wire (high and narrow) by James D'Aquisto. He also planed the neck and it had a lower action than it did before, moderately (medium) low action. It tuned the best it ever had. He replaced the nut with one that sat higher making the string height more uniform throughout the whole fretboard. My problems with intonation started in 1992 when I had stereo electronics and a varitone installed in it. I don't remember if it was that modification itself or if it was just after that when I decided to have it re-fretted again with jumbo frets and a few short years later I had it re-fretted again with either he original fret wire that came new with the 335 or something close to it. Specifically the intonation problem were mainly above the 12th fret (it was ok up to the 12th fret) such that if I tuned it up to the 12th fret then the frets above it were sharp. If I tuned it up above the 12th fret then the frets below it were flat. It I tuned it for all the frets, up to the 12th fret and above the 12th fret then I compromised the tuning over the whole fretboard you see. Nothing would be in tune. The only guy who was able to get the intonation right above the 12th fret was the last guy whom I originally mentioned by shaving the nut down low. As stated, I don't like lower nut because I like to raise my strings and I like to raise my strings because I like the overtones and fuller resonant sound. Do you have any recommendations because regarding the sound I am in agreement with you. In fact you are one of maybe two people who I have ever even heard mention this.
It's a gibson. hahaha !! JK.... Try a Jackson..... you'll never touch a 2x4 again. I haven't tuned, adjusted, or had ANY problems with mine after 10 years. I can literally grab the whammy bar and shake the whole guitar like a madman, and it'll still be perfectly in tune with the perfect low action. Best guitar I've ever owned.
@@richardbaruch1185 Yeah, nut height has to be perfect to intonate well. I'm talking about saddle height, not nut height. And your other discovery is also well known, intonation is never perfect everywhere it is a compromise on any stringed instrument.
Hi. I agree about action. I play .012-.056 with higher than average action on a Strat. The longer neck adds to the string tension which is essential to the style I'm developing and the music I make. I've been studying Charlie Parker heads, and the tension provides the stability to fly, with full tone. There's something to dig into. I might actually jump up to .013s.
I agree been playing as long as you and found that higher action especially on a compound radius neck is a must for bends and tonal quality as well. A happy medium. Low action equals string buzz and choke. I enjoy your videos and they address interesting topics. Keep up the good work.
I can't play super low action. I noticed a couple of years back that I was playing cleaner on guitars I owned where the action had shifted a bit higher than the absolute minimum. I have large fingers, and I need some room to get my fingers under the string for bends and so on.
You make great videos. I was wondering if you could do a follow up vid on maybe guitars that don't well change as much as others do like Martin acoustics guitars are worse thatn Gibson sometimes. Maybe talk about if cheap acoustic guitars do better than say expensive all wood guitars. Like a richlite neck not gonna move like a Martin D 18 neck maybe. Thank you.
If the neck angle is correct on an acoustic you have lots of saddle to play with. You can have a low action with a good break angle at the bridge because the saddle is high giving you a good break angle to drive the volume into the body.
I tend to hit the strings with the gentle and delicate touch of an angry blacksmith, and play a lot of bends. If the action is especially low all I’ll get is buzz, even though another player with a lighter touch wouldn’t have any issues.
Actually, low action is desirable on a flamenco guitar. The strings making noise when they contact the frets during vibration adds character to the sound.
Well now. I was thinking of this the other day, the action on the guitar is certainly a factor on how the tone and warmth of the note can be. I found that "for me" too low just didn't feel right under my fingers. A low-med action felt better and sounded better to my ears for the genres and style I like to play. I am glad I heard this as so many say "low Acton!". I always figured it would depend on the guitarist, their style, how hard you press on the strings and other techniques that are involved, but many think otherwise, especially new players. Thank you for easing my mind.🙂
Interesting take. I play jazz on an archtop. I set it up myself with flat 12s and super low action. I took my guitar to very well known local luthier for some fret work and a high end professional set up. He was a custom shop builder for big name companies and worked with several guitar legends. Fretwork was beautiful, but the action he set up was higher than I was used to. I figured, this man is a superstar - I should adjust my playing to this set up. After a month or so i dialed it back down to what I like. So, I suppose action is more about personal preference and style of play and there is no overall correct action. I also find low action, low string tension, and keeping a guitar in its case keeps neck adjustments to a minimum.
Two things: Firstly, EVH's guitar was set up very high. As you noted with the acoustic, it changes the player-instrument dynamic. Secondly, when I used to play out, there was a time when I played scales on bass before performing on guitar because it made the guitar strings feel comparatively lighter - play like butter, as we say. When I was a kid, I set up super low - like .08s or .09s. -, but as I got into other music, I got up to .10s as far as .13s. I use mid-action .10s nowadays, but I don't shred either. Recommendation: (1) get your fingers calloused before expecting decent tone; (2) less is more when it comes to fret grip. Beginners are probably gripping too tightly. (3) Playing in a group setting will do wonders for your advancement - but not necessarily just jamming.
i use 13 gauge with high action it doesn't hurt, it shreds my fingers as I'm really good at alternate staccato piking yet i don't and cant do it with a pick im a finger picker high gauge strings and high action are great for different genres like surf for palm muting and staccato or blues as high action and heavy gauge strings give movement for the glass slide to work not good bottle necking on low action the slide rubs the bars like speed bumps there is a time for low action maybe why i got so many guitars with different setups for different genres
When bending on electric, higher action allows you to bend the string underneath the adjacent strings. That way you're only bending one string, not multiple strings.
Ok man, I agree with you about low action. I like your videos because it’s like I’m hanging out in your store & you’re just catching me up on shop tawk!!! Thanks!!!
On an acoustic guitar the higher saddle gives the bridge more leverage on the top. This equals more volume etc. My electrics are probable unplayable by most snobs. I get a bit aggressive on the strings and I hate buzz.
I completely agree. As a rule of thumb on electric, I've settled on about 0.070" on the fat E and .060" on the high E for best "grip" on the strings while still being able to do everything "shreddy and tappy". My teenaged son who plays almost exclusively 80's hair metal type music agrees. Adjust slightly from there depending on the individual guitar. I only add about 0.010" to 0.012" for acoustic. Lower than that and I start slipping over the top of the string when trying to do bends. Not all the time but when you least expect it which is even worse. I can't even imagine screwing with 0.040" (1mm) action that some players want. YUK! Also, you left out how JUMBO FRETS can let you set the action closer to the tops of the frets (lower action) without slipping off the string during bends than smaller/shorter frets. The taller frets gives more distance between the top of the fret and the surface of the fretboard so the fingertips can still get "under" the strings and not slip off when bending. I also have dry hands so that definitely impacts my setup. People with sweaty frog like hands could probably go a little lower without having these problems. Everyone has gravitated towards jumbo frets since the early 80's because they're "better" but no one ever explained WHY. It took me decades of playing on and off, including about a decade of screwing with setups on dozens of guitars to finally realize all of this. It just all hit me one day playing one of my seldom played guitars that happened to have jumbo frets on it, while I was suddenly slipping over the strings of a different guitar that had lower frets. Just because the guitar can HAVE lower action without excess buzz doesn't mean it's beneficial! Also, the jumbo frets have finally turned me from being a string MASHER to having a lighter touch, which benefits all of your playing. Yeah, I was a bit out of tune at first, not having the fretboard to stop me but I adapted in a week or two and now I'm a more controlled player. Everyone should own a $10 setup gauge even if you're too afraid to touch the truss rod nut, etc. At least it will give you some specific reference where the action currently is and maybe what you want. How low is low and how high is high? Who knows. 0.040" (1mm) is very low and 0.080" (2mm) is getting quite high. Even 0.010" (.25mm) makes a very noticeable difference in playability. So you can see you're nearly splitting hairs which is why it's better to put some real numbers on it instead of vague descriptions. Also, lower string gauge is the way to make the guitar play easier. They make 10's (12's are the standard "light" gauge which aren't very light!) even for acoustics but they wear out faster, specifically that wound G. The frets wear right through the winds. Also the 10's can sound pretty weak on some acoustics but others take them well and sound find. But if you're really struggling to play, suffer with the tone until you build the strength and dexterity and move up to 11's and then 12's. Tuning down even a half step to a whole step also helps a LOT. You can stick with 12's and tune down a whole step and playing gets much easier. You can use a capo to make up the difference in the tuning and that's a good "lesson" on how to use a capo in itself. 9's is low enough for electric without being prone to breaking like 8's can be. Good luck and Happy New Year.
Each guitar player has a perfect setup for their play style. The guitar's setup should conform to those dimensions and specifications. Some guitars need modifications to fall inline with those specs. For example a neck shim to lower strings geometry. A guitar setup is different for all players. Sweetwater's 55 point inspection is nice. But I could do the limbo under string height that tall. I've walked away from great guitars because they didn't "feel" right. When they probably needed setup to my taste. Even a simple truss rod adjustment can make or break a new instrument sale these days.
If you bend the strings in your playing, the action I think is a function of the fret height and the width of the profile of your fingertips. If you have thin fingers, you want low action and shorter fret wire. Fat fingers, you want higher action and taller frets. For me, I like shorter frets with higher action to match my fatter fingers. This allows me to get my strings to ring better than and not have my fingers neither go below the strings when bending. If I lower the action- I need to get taller frets wire.
I just looked up specs for all my guitars and adjusted the neck relief and action just to see what happened. All my guitars immediately sounded better. Bar chords rang out louder and with better tone, single notes had increased sustain, the guitar sounded more present through the amp. Sure, the action is higher, but it isn't so bad, and my left hand is stronger now. It's all about the strumming hand, anyway. The fretting hand's job is to catch what the right hand throws at it. Right place, right time. People get into problems when they overthink the fretting hand. Thet should be putting all their feeling and dramatic energy into the strumming hand, and the fretting hand is mostly the practical problem solver, except with vibrato and bends. But even then, that should come from the wrist and not the hand.
I started learning guitar in the the 1960's. The first thing my guitar teacher taught me was how to set up the action and intonation. Most guitar players that I knew set up their own guitars, and I also showed a number of guitar players how to up set up their own guitars. One issue with low action is that it severely limits how hard you can pick a string and that limits your dynamics. If you are playing metal, you don't have any dynamics as everything is super compressed. If you are playing blues, dynamics is everything. I always kept my Gibsons set up at the factory action height and that served me well. "I've got blisters on my fingers!" (Yeah, I know, that is what Ringo said, but it applies to all new guitar players as well.)
Great tutorial! I like that points made about string height and style of play, ie: shred vs jazz. One of the keys to the setup is NOT the setup exclusively, it is properly crowned frets that produce cleaner play, better intonation, and richer tone. The player greatly influences tone and tonal accuracy by varied finger pressure across the neck.
Well stated. It's such a fine line between just right and no good for low action players. I've played since 1979. I still play the old stuff from Van Halen 1. I use 9-42 with low action. I don't need to adjust the setup much because I control the humidity year round.
I've found that a reasonable gauge string and slighly high action produce better vibrations thru the body. Lower action needs a little help by the electronics.
Slightly higher action is also needed for some of us who go crazy on guitar and once warmed up having those strings just a hair higher evens out the resistance of the string becoming too easy to play on. But 99% of the time my action is about 1.5mm to 2.0mm at the 12th fret. It does depend on what I am playing because I love those articulating notes being able to make tapping with the fretting hand and not your picking hand.
I’ve had a couple low-action setups and learned how to set them up myself. When I’m playing, I barely notice the difference between low and medium action and I find that I tend to get more fret buzz with low action, especially with weather changes. Nowadays I set mine up with “low-medium” action.
I grew up playing a nylon string that I tried to put steels and a magnetic pickup on. That neck went… then I played an old arch top that must have needed a neck reset. When I went to electric guitar at 13 the local guitar shops would always be discounting electric medium gauge strings often flat wound, so that’s what I would buy. To this day (36 years later) I can’t stand an unwound 3rd string or low action. I always hit those slinky strung guitars out of tune. They don’t feel or sound right to me. I recently had a neck reset done on an old Gibson of mine stating that I wanted highish action and lo and behold I should have not had it reset because it doesn’t have its old tone. Medium to High Action is a must for my playing “style” I happen to be an upright bass player as well. So maybe that explains it.
Very well put. I seem to recall reading that having strings about a half inch off the sound hole plane gets the most volume. Then you get into neck relief , saddle height, nut slot depth , string gauge , intonation ,etc. Always a compromise across the board for style of playing: blue grass requires different from finger style.
An interesting posting; thanks. Something to consider is the effects of age. I've been playing dreadnought acoustic guitars since the mid - 1960s.These days, my finger joints and tendons immediately let me know if a guitar's action is too high. I began to get problems about 25 years ago; maybe more (I'm now in my mid- seventies). Another issue is string tension. A medium set pulls about 190 lbs on the steel-string guitar, a light or extra light set around 135 to 150 lbs. This makes a huge difference. I have to sacrifice some tone for ease of playing - there's no choice. I also play a Guild mini-jumbo bass. The action's quite high compared with my dreadnoughts, but the string tension is low - much lower than on an electric bass, or a full size upright acoustic bass. Maybe string tension rather than action is the most important factor? If so. is there a market for lower tension but thick cross-section strings?
A bunch of string companies make acoustic sets that are lower-tension on the wound strings than their gauge would suggest, typically under some variation of the “Silk And Steel” name
Fender recommends .010" relief and 4/64" string clearance at 12th fret. Gibson's recommendation is .012" relief and 5/64" bass and 3/64" treble. If you want to play leads on an acoustic, these numbers will be the same.
Malmsteen shreds the high action with 9s or even lighter utilizing a scalloped fretboard and stone plectra. The string vibrates between multiple nodes in halves divided between the scale on multiple axis of the scale length. Lowering changes the ratio in favour of fundamentals with less pronounced overtones. It is more noticeable on bass perhaps?
Great video on the subject Gary, I’ve always went with the manufacturers recommendation on string height and truss rod adjustment but in order to have a good setup the Guitars nut has to be cut right and make sure the frets are level, I have found in the years of setting up guitars some guitars just need more neck relief than others do, I personally run my Gibsons 5/64 on low E 4/64 on high E At the 12 th Fret My Fenders are 4/64 Low E 4/64 at the 17th fret high E
I’m a regular acoustic player with a med/high action and I just got an electric again after about 5 years without one that has quite a bit lower action. I have found that I naturally tend to squeeze the cords on the electric so hard that it almost sounds out of tune at times and I have to make a conscious effort to press lightly to make the cords I’m playing sound right. It really feels like I’m pushing buttons as opposed to squeezing cords. Would a medium to high action help make it feel better playing cords or is it the difference in string size the bigger difference factor?
Thank You ... I'm from New London, CT ... The humidity experienced while living on the shoreline of Long Island Sound was very noticeable, with my guitars ... I was fortunate, in that Caruso music (my local music store) hired excellent technicians. Today, living in the mountains of NC, and although my instruments are tweaked 2 X a year, I've noticed that my necks are more staable. And more pleasurable, to play. **** This is a very important informational video. Again, thank you ...
Nice. Subbed. I dedicated my entire being to guitar from age 15-30. I became quite the Texas Slinger and toured and lived the dream until I realized no matter how good I was, I was still broke, broke, broke. For 35 years, I put it down. Got A career. Made tons of money. Retired. I'm three years back and doing pretty good. My number one secret at 65yo is...be the 15yo kid again. Just rock out! Have fun. AND...practice, practice, practice. Same as before. Good luck gents.
It might sound counter-productive if you want to bend strings, but heavier strings are wider and give your fingers more to push, so playing for a while won't hurt. Using tens is the best for me, bending strings all the time. Having them higher up off the fret-board gives you more room to feel them, not just pushing them down, again, far easier to bend them.
Interesting and seemingly well informed discussion. So, that's how it goes in New England, huh? So, here's a question: Given the appreciation for high action and yet some cognizance of the pain and difficulty for beginners and older folks having to endure increased string tension, as a corollary, what gauge strings do you suggest for both electric and acoustic guitars?
I can't get any action at all.
GOLD
Learn piano and not guitar. Its a cheatcode man
ruclips.net/video/GHcDX1C-J30/видео.html
Absolutely hilarious 😂 🤘🏼🙏🏼
Learn to dance. You will always be in action.
Each guitar has a perfect set-up for itself.
That's a very good point. Each guitar is a bit different and requires a different sort of setup. There are a lot of factors involved including the scale length and the gauge of string and the type of guitar and the purpose and how you want to play it.
Maybe tuning too... I knocked on one of mine (Vox SDC-55) yesterday and it resonated at Eb. I'm about to give half-step down tuning on this one.
I believe you’re absolutely correct. One of my strats absolutely hates .09s and feels right with .10s and lowish action but not too low. Once I found the sweet spot for the setup it’s as slinky as any guitar.
Indeed. I have a Fender Mustang. Because it is short scale, .09s just don't do well with it. Even a set of .10s don't agree completely with it. I have to use .11s, but because it's short scale, the strings don't feel that heavy at all. Also, switching to .11s almost completely got rid of the pesky tuning issues associated with the Dynamic Vibrato (well, alongside lowering the springs inside the vibrato). Since switching, this guitar has been an absolute beast to play.
Yep I’ve got guitars tuned to drop A 14/72 gauge and guitars with 10/46 higher action standard tuning a few other tunings as well
Any guitar tech that tries to push you for higher action is usually scared of doing actual fret work. Action is a personal preference and as long as there are no major problems with the guitar, they can be adjusted to have non of the issues talked about in this video
Precisely, low action obviously needs that truss rod and fret leveling set properly for no fret buzz… once you’re dialed in the rest depends on the player and how hard or soft they pick their strings.
PS ~ I’m stating the obvious here but the nut set as well….. I tend to cut my slots a ‘touch’ high for wear so it’s not being replaced again, and I really mean just a fraction too.
What he says about acoustic guitars is true , the distance of the strings with the top works in a different way, is not only about the neck , is about the vibration of the strings in reference with the top , they need to be at a certain optimal distance to maximize the clarity and projection of the guitar , the strings and how sound is produced is not the same in acoustics than in electrics.
I like a low action in all my electrics but I learnt to have medium action in acoustics bc the sound is affected as he says , of course is a question of taste at the end but it's supposed that most of the people likes clarity and projection , in my case the projection is not a big deal bc I play at home but I need my guitar to sound as cleaar as possible is a compulsory course haha , but I think most of us have the same thing about clarity in acoustics.
The first time I've lowered the action of my Taylor I couldn't believe how much clarity and volume I lost , to the point of buying another saddle and of course I still lowered the action but just to medium action . I live in London and it was bc the humidity that comes with seasonal changes that I decided to lower the action of that guitar bc it's the guitar that I usually have out of the case and she suffer with the humidity .
My preference is low action in electrics , medium action in acoustics and if I had to go on a stage probably I wouldn't touch the guitar as it comes from the builder .
@Old-Skull. No, you lowered your action the wrong way, thats why it killed the tone. Ever heard of a neck reset? Look it up, the pitch(angle) of the neck is what ultimate has to be adjusted in situations like that. All old martins eventually had the necks taken off and re set at a better angle. Fortunately for taylor owners rhey are bolt on necks and the angle is obtained with a shim. If you ever played modern high end acoustics that cost in the 10's of thousands you'll see what happens when luthiers take their time
I tell my guitar repair man lower action if he’s doing fret leveling or plek work which I have access in my local area
Low action can be such an addictive thing to chase when you have that one guitar that’s such a joy to play and the others are a mystery of high action and high tension
Check the height of the nut slots!
Tone Robber...band name.
@@fumanpoo4725 And I've heard many that qualify!!
YES! I have an Ibanez RG450 25th anniversary that is soooo low and plays incredible. Nothing duplicates that feel
yep, i got 1 guitar that is perfect, every other guitar in my collection has a nuance that is a bit just different.
I like setting up my own guitars, it makes owning them so much more personal
Yes, you can fine tune it over time, instead of relying on someone who probably doesn’t know you well to get it right in one go
me to
So do I. Paying for a setup twice a year when you own 1 or 2 guitars. No prob. When you own 10 or 12.....not so much.
True!
I can't imagine playing guitar and not knowing how to maintain instruments and electronics. It's a constant flow of restringing/rewiring/setting up.
Man, I love this channel. I’ve been playing the guitar since I was 14 to 15 years old now I’m in my early 40s and still playing and I would love to come check out your store every time I watch your videos. I’m always looking behind you at all the wonderful instruments. Keep up the good work.
Now that your older. You have more money than when you were 14 or 15.. so, take a road trip. And see the store.
@@liberalsrmentallyflawed3611 I was shocked to find this store an hour down the road. In the town I used to work in. I need to take a ride to have them set up my Les Paul Junior with my new music city bridge and posts. I could attempt it, but I want it dialed in by a competent shop. The one near me seems to be of the snobbish variety and I always feel like they would give me the cursory treatment.
I agree with Tommy Emmanuel. He sets his acoustics as low as he can get it. He says it’s pointless to have a guitar that’s difficult to play with high action. He adjusts his truss rod himself frequently due to his travel schedule and has demonstrated how easy it is.
I played a guitar Jerry Reed had owned once and it was well under 1mm on the high E. Those guys knew how to make everything easier on themselves but it takes some work getting any guitar that low, without finding buzzes..
@alfsmith4936 just a fret level and sand the nut and bridge. There are some 4 wheels thingys just for that. 30 bucks on ebay. Bone nut+bridge cost like 5 or 7 bucks.
Can you play as CRAZY FAST & ARTICULATE as "Tommy Emmanuel"? I highly doubt it, and not very many guitarists can. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE & ADMIRE Tommy Emmanuel. He's got to be one of, if not THE BEST acoustic guitarist's alive. ( He's a killer electric player too, of course. ) But if you listen VERY closely, you WILL hear the lack of sheer tone often......not always, but fairly often. Slight "buzzing" here and there, especially when he's playing his fastest stuff. Tommy is willing to make that trade-off because HE HAS TO in order to make the action low enough to play the crazy fast & articulate things that he does. Case in point: COMPARE the acoustic tone of Tommy Emmanuel against the tone of BRIAN SUTTON, or JEDD HUGHES, or even Tom Bukovac.........anyone with ears will very quickly hear the difference. Tommy IS "faster" than those guys, but his tone is not as great. THAT is the trade-off for Tommy's style of playing, and it makes him unique. By the way: I'm a 63 yr old lifelong guitarist/singer/blues harp player. I began playing guitar by age 12 and gigged professionally all over east/central Florida for about 25 yrs. I started out with both electric and acoustic, gigged mostly electric playing rock & roll and blues, and then went back to my roots of only acoustic gigs for the last 9 years of my gigging days. I still sing & play only acoustic today. I prefer a medium/low action. Even I can hear the loss of tone & volume with my high-end acoustic's if the action is too low. The man in this video is 100% right. But in my earlier days of playing guitar, I would've argued with him all day long. That's because I wasn't the guitarist that I became later on.
@@howabouthetruth2157Agreed. Tommy’s setup does produce some buzz. But I’ve seen videos of Brian and Tommy playing together and both their guitars sound great.
@@howabouthetruth2157 Which just proves that you don't have to eliminate all noise to play beautifully and even entertain others. And I'd argue as well you don't have to be anywhere close to Tommy in skill. You just have to play what _you_ play well.
For those in hard rock bands, low action also tends to clank against the frets during live shows when you’re digging in. You have to hit the strings lightly, which is hard to do when you’re moving around and rocking out on a stage.
I have Squier Strats. They are good enough for me. I play .007 strings with the lowest action possible. I set up my own guitars. I used to measure everything. Now I do it by feel.
Yahmawn!!
Feel is the best I can't tell you any settings on my guitars. When I hit that feel I just know it.
I just learned high-gauge strings are better for lower action because they don't vibrate as widely.
@@kilgoretrout321 That's where picking technique comes in. Nines are the perfect size after getting used to them. They're highly responsive. Bends, harmonics, tapping, tremolo, barre chords.....all much easier on a thinner gauge.
I have found that it is easier to dig in under the string for bends if the action is not too low.
That's what jumbo frets are for.
Digging in doesn't offer anything but tensing up fingers.
@@artvillarreal8849 You think so?
I’m down to one guitar, since ageism took away my opportunities. A cheap Ashton ( cost me 60 bucks) Recently lowered the action after 15 years. Slight buzzes on certain frets but because I only use it for writing songs (Space Engineer, To Be Loved) it’s just perfect. Love the new comfort it gives me. Wish I’d done it sooner.
I have a light touch, I also have had 7 surgeries for carpal tunnel and trigger finger. My action barely touches the frets. I live in NY and the weather fluctuates a lot but I never have to adjust the truss rod or the height of my bridge. I love it low.
I have bad tendonitis. Action needs to be low as possible.
If regular action, you might as well hit me up side of the head with the guitar cause thats the only sound i'll get out of it.
When I was starting out on guitar we didn’t have a thing called “ low action”…. We played “ Silvertones and Kay “ guitars with the strings 2 inches off the fretboard “ uphill” in a “ snowstorm” both ways until our fingers blistered …and we loved it wether we liked it or not….Thanks Mark ❤️, …now smash that like button folks 👍
I Know What You Mean!Most Recently,I Resurrected a 1962 K Leader guitar.It Came from the factory,with the Trapeze bridge,literally off centered from the neck by a String!Yes just 5 strings went across the fretboard neck!😮What!Gave this guitar the works!Put 3 shims,in the neck,and had to shim up the bone nut!😮D 5 deoxit electronic sprayed the Controls to Life,not Death!😅Changed out the Vintage tone caps and put in some PIO vintage .022 vintage white Russian tone caps!Cleaned it up!The person I fixed this for was there Fathers and was in the Closet stored for years,till,now!I'm Happy and the person is just so Happy!And This Guitar,Has LOW Playing Action.,And it Does Not SUCK!I Guess you like Vise Grips for Fingers to play!Ha!😮Take care with The Vise Grip Guitars,cause there are a Lot out There!😊
My first guitar was a Mexican acoustic my folks got in some border town. High action, heavy strings. It's amazing I got past that, but they came through later with a Melody Maker and a mahogany Gibson acoustic.
You had fingers?
Try hoof n snarl with butch and carl
dem got no toes and they got no fingers,
they pick with thier nose and are looking for a singer.
@@AcousticOne I had both 🤣🤣
Those early 80's Sears import guitars some of my friends had scarred me for life. When that crap started getting popular in the hipster market I wanted to smash them all. I've calmed down now but they're still not "cool". Made from dozens of scrap blocks glued together... Yuk! They made my Peavey T-25 look like a dream machine. LOL
I need extremely medium action.
I've taken a guitar to a seance to achieve medium action, after which it now only sounds out the dead note(s).
@@montag4516 *sensible chuckle*
We should all set up our own guitars. If you get a shop to do it, you get a different instrument back each time.
My take: The real reason to use a minimal action setup (not necessarily ‘low’), particularly on acoustics (‘guitare sèche’ - ‘dry guitar’ in French - love that) has nothing to do with fretting or projection, but rather with intonation. The more travel from un-fretted to fretted, the more the rise in pitch and subsequent intonation issues. These issues magnify as the action raises while closing a shorter string length as we shift up the fretboard. This is a fretting problem, fretless instruments - like our double basses - just adjust intonation on the fly with left hand placement.
One tip I can offer therefore is to try to play as if there were no frets. Stretch to get all fretting fingertips right on the frets, and less fretting force will be necessary, improving intonation and grip comfort. The real strength we need to develop is positional - holding correct left hand position is lots of work. Guitar (many instruments actually) is a lot like yoga in this way. New poses are awkward and painful until you develop some of those stabilizer muscles to hold that unfamiliar gesture. Learn to enjoy overcoming that weakness, bit by bit.
Last advice, playing music is more like brushing your teeth than going to the dentist. Do it at least a bit everyday, rather than an intense session every once in a while. 😊
What you say may be right for acoustic guitars, but on electric guitars with six adjustable saddles, intonation can be set to compensate for different actions though.
@@1man1guitarletsgo now go back and read his comment
@@shelbyavant5081 Sounds like you don't understand how guitars can be adjusted. I suggest you look up "how to set intonation".
Did this man ever say "set your action high, the higher the better". NO. You're going to extremes with that argument.
@@1man1guitarletsgo tone is not affected by action on an electric
Fair enough but low riders? They get a little bit higher.
All my friends know the low rider...
I have an ES-335 that I bought new in the '80s and it has an incredibly straight neck. I used to use 9 gauge strings and I got the action down to an extremely low level and it worked really well for the kind of music I used to play back then. As an older fellow now I have switched to 10 gauge and it just feels better. I've also raised the action because I like to bend notes a lot more. The simple truth is when you like bending you have to have the action HIGHER, so that when you slide your finger you don't go over top of the string. It allows you to grip the side of the string better and control the bend. You want to have the action high enough whereby when you make the bend you don't go over the top of the string. Too high and you go under the string... you want to have a really nice push of the string up or down depending on how you're bending and it gives you better control. That's all there is to it.
The ES-335 is a unicorn, though. People I play with think my 345 has much lighter gauge strings on it than there are because it’s so easy to play. Not so on my other guitars (I love them too).
Agreed. There’s a happy medium sweet-spot of not especially low and not especially high for properly articulating on bluesy or country bends. It’s likely higher than most people asking for a setup expect, but not so high that it’s uncomfortable either.
The 7.25 radius on my strat agrees.
Some very wise thoughts here. Take your journey as a teenager would. Being in my 50s I constantly try to compensate with money and intellect, buying new gear and understanding theory and physics while I actually should just play. Don't forget, as a teenager you also have more friends to practice with or play in a garage band.
As a teenager i can tell you most of us today do not have any close friends.
@@RayStratos4489 I am past retirement age. I study this. It is true. What happened to us is that when we got married we lost all our friends. Women do that. They feel a compulsion to dominate. I am well aware of the issues that you guys are challenged with. One of my best buddies is in his 30s. He is never getting married. As challenging as our women were your challenges are far greater. I have a suggestion. Take your friends where you find them. They might be old guys. Old guys know a lot of interesting stuff that will soon be lost to history since every generation thinks they know everything. We thought that too.
@@RayStratos4489 The internet and "social" media has robbed you guys from that. Now it's about how many likes you get or subscribers sadly.
I'm in my 50s too, and still basically a learner. When I was guitar shopping, I could just about afford a more expensive guitar and, since I never do, I thought I might treat myself. Then I got a little hung up for a while on how to make this uncharacteristically big purchase so I'd end up with the perfect guitar.
The thing is, I couldn't help noticing that when I played cheaper guitars in guitar shops, the staff would sometimes take them and casually reel of some great playing, proving that ultimately it was ability that mattered. Then I watched a Rick Beato interview where he described learning as a teenager on a super-cheap guitar. I thought, yeah, screw it, just get something affordable but decent and get good.
As it happened, at that point, I found an inexpensive guitar, the Yamaha FG-800M, that isn't just decent, it's bloody great, so I bought that and no regrets. But the point still stands and I had other options that would've been fine, e.g. the Cort Earth 100. The only thing to stress is, it does have to be decent. Bad gear is bad gear. When I actually was a teenager and not just trying to learn to play like one, I had a cheap acoustic that hurt like hell to play, which is probably why I've only circled back to this now.
You are spot on. I'm a jazz guitarist and have been playing for over 50 years. When I started learning to play rock back in the 70's my first guitar had high action with those horrible Black Diamond strings on it. My fingers hurt so bad. A high school friend of mine and guitarist got me on to some Ernie Ball 008 and then lowered the action like he had his. What a difference. But years later after I got into jazz a la Pat Martino and others and started playing on an archtop, there's no way in hell those 008 and low action sounded right on that archtop. Today I use 13s and a medium action. The strings resonate better and I have better control over the dynamics and tone with a higher action. I also have a Tele for kicks and string it with 11s and a medium action.
I'm 75. I have arthritis, plus nerve damage to my fretting hand from several accidents. Playing single note lines is one thing, but playing fingerstyle, and trying to keep it clean, while playing old standards, does not work with a high action. In fact, I perform mostly with a Godin nylon string electric/acoustic. Which reminds me, it's been said that Segovia was asked by a guitar maker what they could do to make their guitars sound better, and he supposedly replied, "make them easier to play." Of course, there are limits, and different styles of playing. But if I can't make those chords cleanly, it sounds like crap.
I like the notion that you shouldn't take an intellectual approach to playing guitar! Brilliant advice. As for action, every guitar has its own happy point.
Just like every player has different needs!
Thanks! My point is just that, there is no one answer for everyone, and that one answer is not "you need the lowest possible action"
Not brilliant at all, music theory is very useful and the sooner you get into it the better.
@@cashway0420 Each to their own. The thing is, a guitarist can learn practically, and those elements that are covered in theory form part of the learning, albeit through discovery rather than formal teaching. The end result is someone who understands exactly what they're doing, and can apply that in practical situations. Of course learning to read sheet music, tab etc. has its place, and readers may have an advantage over those of us who don't read; but that doesn't necessarily make them better guitarists.
@@1man1guitarletsgo To flat out say you shouldn't take an intellectual approach though is horrible advice to any new musician. Knowledge will ALWAYS benefit you
Low action at the nut (without buzzing) is the secret to perfect intonation and will also make a guitar play like butter. Check intonation at 1st & 2nd frets to see it its set correctly. 😉
zero fret eliminates all that....
@@ericwilliams2122exactly
I have built 6 guitars. My 1st one has a nut, all the rest have a zero fret. Once I used a zero fret, nuts just dont make sense any more.
@@ericwilliams2122the opposite can also be said. A properly cut nut eliminates the need for a zero fret! 😉🤘🏻🎸😎
Yes! The high-tension area in the first three or four frets is where action really matters in terms of playability and intonation.
My Fender CD60M is set up a tiny bit high, I could probably just adjust the tension rod about a half turn. but I love the tone that I get from it as is. No pain, no gain.😅
Great video. I learned a little bit more about acoustic guitars. Good luck.
Funny story. I was building rock n roll archtops. A friend of mine, a Tele' player. Well known in local circles, asks me to build him a Les Paul style guitar with a fender style neck. I build it. Slammed the strings down nice & tight, to impress him. He grabs it, plays it for a second & starts screwing the bridge up away from the body of the guitar. In shock, I'm watching him do this. I pick up the guitar after he's done playing it. Damn, there that Tele' Slap he gets. It's in the string height!!!!
More specifically, it's in the distance from the pickup to the strings. Changing the strength of the magnetic field the strings are vibrating thru will change the tone.
Changing the height the strings are sitting off of the fret will not (as long as the pickup is still the same distance).
Yep, that's right. You can't just bolt parts together on finely tuned things without putting in a little forethought.
Most players arent super worried about ridiculously low action on acoustic guitars. I think most of the time, they are frustrated by poorly built, poorly designed, and poorly set up acoustic guitars. So they say they want the action as low as possible, because they dont want to continue to fight the guitar. As far as electric guitars are concerned, a low action isnt desired as much for the ease of play as it is for the precision of the technique. A player that gets to the level of being a shredder certainly has developed his hands and fingers and callouses and can obviously play. At that point, the technique being the same across the fretboard becomes the important thing.
This whole outdated and goofy idea that you should have to fight the instrument to play it is ridiculous. "Vintage" instruments as a whole were poorly built and designed compared to today. I know people like to romanticize these pieces of junk because of their rarity, but for the most part, they suck. They dont design pianos with tension wheels on the keys because its some badge of honor to fight the instrument. You arent considered a better drummer if you wear wrist weights while playing. Its an old fashioned nonsensical idea to think a player must put up with that crap. Basically the same as yelling at kids to get off your lawn.
I agree but either way you’re fighting and exerting some force to play a guitar. There is something about larger strings and higher action that make a different playing style come out. My compound radius tele is so shredy and easy to play but sometimes something just comes out from my vintage dalelectro that has higher action. Like I’ve come up with riffs that I knew I wouldn’t have on my tele because I know I’m having to focus more not to screw up if that makes sense? We have to except that while guitars can be made better, none of them are perfect.
@TommyDaleCooper i get what you are saying. But im not talking about sl8ghtly higher but still playable action, and i didnt really mention string gauge. Most people dont complain about a slightly higher action. They complain about the action because its substantially different, and it affects technique.
On an acoustic you need the action at a reasonable height along with not too thin strings so you are able to dig in and get the dynamics you need.
@paulstoakes466 exactly, reasonable.
Often when I hear someone gush over low action, a voice inside me says NOOB ALERT Amongst other things, higher action is better for muting strings next to fretted strings imho
Whenever I see a guitar for sale listed as having "super low action" I immediately think that will need a set up adjustment before I start regularly using it!
@anthonycraig1458 It's a sign of a decent fretjob though
Check out Tony Rice on a sub 2mm setup Martin acoustic. It takes more skill to play loud, with no buzzing on a low action guitar but it can be done and it makes stretching easier.
I got to say...I love your videos and the information you provide. I've only been playing for two years and am a later in life player. Thanks for helping the old guys and gals!!
Great tip about adjusting the truss rod through the year! I live in PA, and I adjust mine seasonally. The guitars literally tell me they need it, because they don't play right. I used to be the guy that wanted my action as low as possible, but I stopped that. I don't like it super high either, so I shoose the middle ground. And in the end, it's more fun because I'm not wasting time trying to fight the guitar all the time. Each guitar is like a person with its own quirks, and you have to learn them to get along with it. You can't get to do something it wasn't meant to do - or won't do. That's why when I try out a guitar, I spend more that 10 minutes with it. And while I choose a guitar based on looks, I always keep that at the bottom of my list to keep from impulse buying.
I like low action. Even after 20 years of playing, it's still hard to play on higher action or thicker strings. When I switched from 10s down to 9s, it was like I could finally play guitar the way I wanted. I could actually bend the strings somewhat comfortably. All of my guitars get looked at by the local luthier, he'll work on the frets and make sure the nut is cut properly, do any electrical work I want, but then I can maintain it afterwards with any adjustments that are needed.
It all depends on the player, I have small, skinny hands so I prefer things to be easier, but I have a friend with hands way bigger than mine so he'd have different preferences, and my one friend said he plays with like 12s or 13s in standard tuning. If the player is comfortable on their instrument then there's no issue. 😊
The notion of a higher action on an acoustic putting significantly greater pressure on the bridge to supposedly improve tone and increase volume is questionable to say the least. It is the ability of the string to swing around and vibrate more from having been plucked harder and having more room to swing about, regardless of neck relief, which will cause the difference. Let's look at some facts to confirm this...
If we tune a bottom E string of .046 gauge up to concert pitch, it will typically exert 17.5 lbs of pressure along the string. Drop that tuning down an entire tone to D, and the tension along the string decreases to 13.9 lbs. Thus we can see that there is only an increase of 3.4 lbs pressure down an open string (not down on the bridge) when going up an entire tone and it will typically take a full wind or two on the machine head to manage that. So do we really think pushing a string down a millimetre more is going to massively increase pressure on the bridge?
Unless your action is so high that it is pitching the notes up noticeably when fretting, which would of course make the thing unplayable in terms of intonation, there is clearly not going to be very much increase in pressure on the bridge when fretting a note as opposed to it being played open. In fact, common sense tells us that if there was a huge difference, open chords with some fretted notes would be all over the place volume-wise.
Facts are important 👍
Robin Trower says heavy strings and high action give the best tone for him. I tend to listen to the tone masters and what they have to say.....
Yep. In his instructional video (from the late 1980s?) he shows that he keeps his guitars tuned down a half step because it allows for high action with low tension. 🎸
I always heard when you’re young you can easily learn new things, when you’re older you can easily pick up similar ideas and expand your knowledge of what you already know
I like how Mountain strung his LP. Bottom 3 strings were 10's and the top 3 strings were 9's. RIP Leslie West.
Ernie Ball hybrids 9/46, basically the same thing.
I've finally subscribed after enjoying your videos now and then over the years. Good stuff, please keep going.
The string heights should be set as evenly along the length the fretboard as possible. Thats more important than getting them as low as possible.
If the nut slots are cut properly for the strings you prefer. It will be relatively easy, to dial in the slightest amout of taper away from the nut.
If the strings are a mile high at the opposite end of the guitar. Start by getting them as close to level as possible, first. Then and only then, can you accurately judge how much lower you can take them.
Depending on how hard you dig in and play. Will be the only gauge you'll need to figure out how low you can take the action before the strings choke out. This will be different for everyone.
Players that insist on having the action ultra low on all different styles of guitars. Are generally not taking into consideration the nuances each different style of construction might dictate.
Always conform to the guitar. Trying to force the guitar to fall within a given generic spec of action. Is a waste of time. Treat each one as its own beast. Thats needs its own tweaks to be optimal. Peace!
How can one know the nut is cut properly...for sure?
Thanks for the good post..
Jim
Depends on the strings you prefer. One of my pet peeves is when these supposedly "expert" screwtubers. Review a guitar and complain that the set up isn't how they prefer it. If it's too low, it's much harder to deal with. Manufacturers are going to put a preslotted off the shelf nut, with a standard part number. On virtually every guitar on the market that's not Customshop or low volume production.
The average player can barely change their own strings. Let alone get them anywhere near flat along the length of the fretboard. But they'll rail against the first mass produced import that touches they're "expert" hands. Claiming that's why real players wouldn't bother with such trash. It's sad actually. We're living in a guilded age of guitars. Where the average joe can spend a few hundo on just about any decent brand. And expect to get really great guitars for around $500. With a little knowledge and TLC almost any decent model can be made to play and sound perfectly good.
Peace!
I have played John Petrucci's personal guitars backstage, and played Tommy Emmanuel's personal gigging Maton. They are super super low. JP's was so low you couldn't play an open position chord. That is part of why they can play that quick. That is their preference. I have some guitars set up higher bc of open tunings, some set up for slide, some set up for playing quick. If I'm going for vocal like sustain and bending, I'm at 3mm/2mm bass & treble w 10s.
In the late 70s and 80s, there was a surge of interest in niche bookstores that offered a variety of unusual and unconventional topics. Today, social media has taken over that space, allowing individuals to share bizarre claims, like the supposed benefits of consuming decaying wood to boost cognitive function. As a result, some people are inclined to explore these ideas, often following trends without question. The trend reflects a broader cultural shift where easy access to information can lead to both irrational beliefs and practical experimentation.
On a more personal note, my experience with musical instruments illustrates a common-sense approach to problem-solving. i transitioned from playing guitar to ukulele, finding that tuning the ukulele down helped prolong the life of the strings. This practical decision worked for me, leading to a better playing experience. Let's also note the importance of experimenting and learning through personal experience in order to uncover effective solutions. Ultimately, the emphasis is on a rational mindset when navigating new ideas or challenges, rather than blindly following trends. Combined with the open mindedness of a youngster
I cannot string bend at all with low action. The adjacent strings just slip under my fingers instead of being pushed out of the way. Med to med/high-ish works best for me. I don't even measure anymore. I set the action by feel. Great vid!
That happens to me, too.
Also, I like the tone of 10s on my tele better than 9s but tendonitis in the carpal tunnel has forced me to stick with 9s. I have short fingers so the 9s help to minimizing the degree of finger motion and required force.
Exactly - if you have a medium action, the strings (especially going up the fretboard) are much easier to grab and bend. Too low and you get exactly what you just said. Too high is also bad - you can't play fast if its too high and it can be painful as well - even with built up callouses.
I agree with every word you said in this video. I learned guitar on super high actions and heavy strings when I was 12. Later I'd learn to set guitars up myself but learned that I like a medium action, and like not having to deal too much with fret buzz. Also, the "wicked smart" line immediately resonated with me as a New Englander. Cheers from Medford, MA!
From one lefty to another, Mark, I thoroughly enjoyed this video!
if you bend a lot a med action is probably easier. I keep my electrics med/low 1.65 low E and 1.5 high E on most of them and yea in AR I have to adjust some of the necks two or three times a year. In regards to my bass setups you can't get it too high or the intonation won't be correct on the higher frets but yea too low and you get that piano type sound, which I like on my Jazz but it's not for everyone. Loving your channel!
Phil X always says if you just learn to play low action guitars you will never be able to "blow minds" 😂
Whenever I feel my electric guitars action getting higher.. ill play my classical/nylon for a few minutes. And voila electric feels planted to the fretboard again lol
💯
For me at 55 over the last 5 or so years I've found that on my 59 Les Paul reissue"s on my thicker neck guitar's I like my action lower but on the thinner neck's I like the action a little higher or I adjust the neck relief somewhat..I have been setting up my own guitar"s the last 5 years not to save money..but yes lol but to learn my Instrument as well ...Anything I would feel majorly uncomfortable with I would absolutely take it in for a Pro setup..But a Great topic to talk about for sure for all ages no doubt and all Guitar's as well as far as styles of playing/ Acoustic, Electric etc ..A lot to consider when you really break it down..I'm really starting to enjoy this Channel Thanks for the Great Content 👍😎
Whether you agree or not this cat knows what he speaks about and deserves respect for sharing his wisdom. Thank you sir.
Personally I go as low as I can until I start getting into issues. (Fret buzz, strings prevented from fully vibrating etc) some of my guitars are really low and others not so much. It’s kind of unique to each instrument
as a guitar tech who works with prewar martin guitars, i get the neck relief at 5 thousandths (measured at the fifth fret, by martin specification), first fret action at the treble strings 10 thousandths, and first fret action at the bass side at 15 thousandths, and 50 thousandths at the high E and 70 thousandths at the low E, strung up with 13-56, and its never been a problem with my heavy handed fellow bluegrass customers. no buzz or change to tone. easy action = easier playing = consistency = better overall tone. tony rice, who had some of the greatest acoustic guitar tone in history, had insanely low action, but stellar tone.
Thanks for sharing the numbers and you make a great point.
Why not change the string tension to bring back the tonal quality and harmonics on a low action?
I vaguely remember thinking guitar was physically painful when I was young. But I was playing a poorly set up steel string acoustic. And then a poorly set up bass. But I don’t remember it EVER being uncomfortable playing decent electrics? Is that really a thing? I’m not sure it SHOULD be painful. I play guitar daily and am pretty sure I only have callouses when I’m also rock climbing regularly?
Protect ya neck etc
I love my old tendons too much for high action.
In case your wondering...that red and white one behind him on right is a Danalelctro. I had a baritone Dano I was trying to bend notes on too much...OUCH! 13-72 gauge.
Exactly, low action isn't just for shredding, it's for ease of playing so you don't injure your hands playing for long hours and decades of playing. Hands are prone to injuries like tendinitis and arthritis.
Thank you. Never thought about the seasonal changes on a guitar before.
Ive had a few acoustics that had terrible intonation at the 12th fret. Lowering at the saddle improved this to the point it was spot on.
The loss in volume was minimal.
I was told by a widely respected luthier in new york city that to keep my gibson ES 335 intoning i have to keep my nut low. This dosnt work out well because if i raise my action either from bowing the neck from the truss rod or raising the bridge via the adjustment the
string pitch gradient is steep, low and angles higher up the neck.
Definitely the nut has to be at the right height, and then there's only one right hike for intonation's purposes. The saddle is on the other end and can be set to different heights
@@GarysGuitarsUSA Then if for any one 335 there is a correct nut height for intonation then I would have to trust my luthier's assessment of that and based on my ears. The guitar is over 55 years old and I've had it maintained by a few different people over the years. I don't think it intones as well as it did when it was 20 years old. Once it was 8 or 9 years old I had it re-fretted with different type of fret wire (high and narrow) by James D'Aquisto. He also planed the neck and it had a lower action than it did before, moderately (medium) low action. It tuned the best it ever had. He replaced the nut with one that sat higher making the string height more uniform throughout the whole fretboard. My problems with intonation started in 1992 when I had stereo electronics and a varitone installed in it. I don't remember if it was that modification itself or if it was just after that when I decided to have it re-fretted again with jumbo frets and a few short years later I had it re-fretted again with either he original fret wire that came new with the 335 or something close to it. Specifically the intonation problem were mainly above the 12th fret (it was ok up to the 12th fret) such that if I tuned it up to the 12th fret then the frets above it were sharp. If I tuned it up above the 12th fret then the frets below it were flat. It I tuned it for all the frets, up to the 12th fret and above the 12th fret then I compromised the tuning over the whole fretboard you see. Nothing would be in tune. The only guy who was able to get the intonation right above the 12th fret was the last guy whom I originally mentioned by shaving the nut down low. As stated, I don't like lower nut because I like to raise my strings and I like to raise my strings because I like the overtones and fuller resonant sound. Do you have any recommendations because regarding the sound I am in agreement with you. In fact you are one of maybe two people who I have ever even heard mention this.
It's a gibson. hahaha !! JK.... Try a Jackson..... you'll never touch a 2x4 again. I haven't tuned, adjusted, or had ANY problems with mine after 10 years. I can literally grab the whammy bar and shake the whole guitar like a madman, and it'll still be perfectly in tune with the perfect low action. Best guitar I've ever owned.
@@richardbaruch1185 Yeah, nut height has to be perfect to intonate well. I'm talking about saddle height, not nut height. And your other discovery is also well known, intonation is never perfect everywhere it is a compromise on any stringed instrument.
@@RandysRides but jackson makes a semihollow?
Hi. I agree about action. I play .012-.056 with higher than average action on a Strat. The longer neck adds to the string tension which is essential to the style I'm developing and the music I make. I've been studying Charlie Parker heads, and the tension provides the stability to fly, with full tone. There's something to dig into. I might actually jump up to .013s.
I agree been playing as long as you and found that higher action especially on a compound radius neck is a must for bends and tonal quality as well. A happy medium. Low action equals string buzz and choke. I enjoy your videos and they address interesting topics. Keep up the good work.
I agree my les paul action is medium high. How do you bend with low action. It makes it all but impossible.
I can't play super low action. I noticed a couple of years back that I was playing cleaner on guitars I owned where the action had shifted a bit higher than the absolute minimum. I have large fingers, and I need some room to get my fingers under the string for bends and so on.
You make great videos. I was wondering if you could do a follow up vid on maybe guitars that don't well change as much as others do like Martin acoustics guitars are worse thatn Gibson sometimes. Maybe talk about if cheap acoustic guitars do better than say expensive all wood guitars. Like a richlite neck not gonna move like a Martin D 18 neck maybe. Thank you.
If the neck angle is correct on an acoustic you have lots of saddle to play with. You can have a low action with a good break angle at the bridge because the saddle is high giving you a good break angle to drive the volume into the body.
That’s why set up my own guitars, level my own frets etc. I can play as low as possible without any issues. It’s a dream to play any of my guitars.
I tend to hit the strings with the gentle and delicate touch of an angry blacksmith, and play a lot of bends. If the action is especially low all I’ll get is buzz, even though another player with a lighter touch wouldn’t have any issues.
How or where do I start with guitar setup and repair knowledge?
Internet, library, friends, store workers, trial and error, other musicians, magazines, classes, seminars, tutors, etc. etc, etc.
You're already on RUclips , look it up lol it's not hard to setup a guitar and a total waste of money for how much shops want
Actually, low action is desirable on a flamenco guitar. The strings making noise when they contact the frets during vibration adds character to the sound.
What’s the actual number for low/med/high action
Cuz I usually chase the high action but when is to high?
I play 11s on fender and Gibson
Well now. I was thinking of this the other day, the action on the guitar is certainly a factor on how the tone and warmth of the note can be. I found that "for me" too low just didn't feel right under my fingers. A low-med action felt better and sounded better to my ears for the genres and style I like to play. I am glad I heard this as so many say "low Acton!". I always figured it would depend on the guitarist, their style, how hard you press on the strings and other techniques that are involved, but many think otherwise, especially new players. Thank you for easing my mind.🙂
It depends what you like to play. I play electric jazz/blues and like to dig in so a higher action is necessary yet is still only around medium/high.
Interesting take. I play jazz on an archtop. I set it up myself with flat 12s and super low action. I took my guitar to very well known local luthier for some fret work and a high end professional set up. He was a custom shop builder for big name companies and worked with several guitar legends. Fretwork was beautiful, but the action he set up was higher than I was used to. I figured, this man is a superstar - I should adjust my playing to this set up. After a month or so i dialed it back down to what I like. So, I suppose action is more about personal preference and style of play and there is no overall correct action. I also find low action, low string tension, and keeping a guitar in its case keeps neck adjustments to a minimum.
Two things: Firstly, EVH's guitar was set up very high. As you noted with the acoustic, it changes the player-instrument dynamic. Secondly, when I used to play out, there was a time when I played scales on bass before performing on guitar because it made the guitar strings feel comparatively lighter - play like butter, as we say. When I was a kid, I set up super low - like .08s or .09s. -, but as I got into other music, I got up to .10s as far as .13s. I use mid-action .10s nowadays, but I don't shred either.
Recommendation: (1) get your fingers calloused before expecting decent tone; (2) less is more when it comes to fret grip. Beginners are probably gripping too tightly. (3) Playing in a group setting will do wonders for your advancement - but not necessarily just jamming.
I pick too hard to use low action, when the strings buzz on the frets it drives me crazy.
So what do you feel is the best action for an acoustic guitar? I’m asking about the string height at the twelfth fret. Thanks
i use 13 gauge with high action it doesn't hurt, it shreds my fingers as I'm really good at alternate staccato piking yet i don't and cant do it with a pick im a finger picker high gauge strings and high action are great for different genres like surf for palm muting and staccato or blues as high action and heavy gauge strings give movement for the glass slide to work not good bottle necking on low action the slide rubs the bars like speed bumps there is a time for low action maybe why i got so many guitars with different setups for different genres
This is my mindset, it's all up to the guitarist and the genre you are playing.🙂👍
When bending on electric, higher action allows you to bend the string underneath the adjacent strings. That way you're only bending one string, not multiple strings.
@Gary’s Guitars - Do you play left-handed? I noticed the 2 air-bass-guitar examples were oriented lefty.
Yes.
Ok man, I agree with you about low action. I like your videos because it’s like I’m hanging out in your store & you’re just catching me up on shop tawk!!! Thanks!!!
On an acoustic guitar the higher saddle gives the bridge more leverage on the top. This equals more volume etc. My electrics are probable unplayable by most snobs. I get a bit aggressive on the strings and I hate buzz.
Let me get this straight.
You want high action so your fretting hand has to squeeze hard to make chords?
I have a hand injury and a higher action actually helps me play easier. I tried a low action and my hand hurt.
I completely agree. As a rule of thumb on electric, I've settled on about 0.070" on the fat E and .060" on the high E for best "grip" on the strings while still being able to do everything "shreddy and tappy". My teenaged son who plays almost exclusively 80's hair metal type music agrees. Adjust slightly from there depending on the individual guitar. I only add about 0.010" to 0.012" for acoustic. Lower than that and I start slipping over the top of the string when trying to do bends. Not all the time but when you least expect it which is even worse. I can't even imagine screwing with 0.040" (1mm) action that some players want. YUK! Also, you left out how JUMBO FRETS can let you set the action closer to the tops of the frets (lower action) without slipping off the string during bends than smaller/shorter frets. The taller frets gives more distance between the top of the fret and the surface of the fretboard so the fingertips can still get "under" the strings and not slip off when bending. I also have dry hands so that definitely impacts my setup. People with sweaty frog like hands could probably go a little lower without having these problems. Everyone has gravitated towards jumbo frets since the early 80's because they're "better" but no one ever explained WHY. It took me decades of playing on and off, including about a decade of screwing with setups on dozens of guitars to finally realize all of this. It just all hit me one day playing one of my seldom played guitars that happened to have jumbo frets on it, while I was suddenly slipping over the strings of a different guitar that had lower frets. Just because the guitar can HAVE lower action without excess buzz doesn't mean it's beneficial! Also, the jumbo frets have finally turned me from being a string MASHER to having a lighter touch, which benefits all of your playing. Yeah, I was a bit out of tune at first, not having the fretboard to stop me but I adapted in a week or two and now I'm a more controlled player. Everyone should own a $10 setup gauge even if you're too afraid to touch the truss rod nut, etc. At least it will give you some specific reference where the action currently is and maybe what you want. How low is low and how high is high? Who knows. 0.040" (1mm) is very low and 0.080" (2mm) is getting quite high. Even 0.010" (.25mm) makes a very noticeable difference in playability. So you can see you're nearly splitting hairs which is why it's better to put some real numbers on it instead of vague descriptions. Also, lower string gauge is the way to make the guitar play easier. They make 10's (12's are the standard "light" gauge which aren't very light!) even for acoustics but they wear out faster, specifically that wound G. The frets wear right through the winds. Also the 10's can sound pretty weak on some acoustics but others take them well and sound find. But if you're really struggling to play, suffer with the tone until you build the strength and dexterity and move up to 11's and then 12's. Tuning down even a half step to a whole step also helps a LOT. You can stick with 12's and tune down a whole step and playing gets much easier. You can use a capo to make up the difference in the tuning and that's a good "lesson" on how to use a capo in itself. 9's is low enough for electric without being prone to breaking like 8's can be. Good luck and Happy New Year.
Each guitar player has a perfect setup for their play style.
The guitar's setup should conform to those dimensions and specifications. Some guitars need modifications to fall inline with those specs. For example a neck shim to lower strings geometry.
A guitar setup is different for all players. Sweetwater's 55 point inspection is nice.
But I could do the limbo under string height that tall. I've walked away from great guitars because they didn't "feel" right. When they probably needed setup to my taste.
Even a simple truss rod adjustment can make or break a new instrument sale these days.
If you bend the strings in your playing, the action I think is a function of the fret height and the width of the profile of your fingertips. If you have thin fingers, you want low action and shorter fret wire. Fat fingers, you want higher action and taller frets. For me, I like shorter frets with higher action to match my fatter fingers. This allows me to get my strings to ring better than and not have my fingers neither go below the strings when bending. If I lower the action- I need to get taller frets wire.
I just looked up specs for all my guitars and adjusted the neck relief and action just to see what happened. All my guitars immediately sounded better. Bar chords rang out louder and with better tone, single notes had increased sustain, the guitar sounded more present through the amp. Sure, the action is higher, but it isn't so bad, and my left hand is stronger now. It's all about the strumming hand, anyway. The fretting hand's job is to catch what the right hand throws at it. Right place, right time. People get into problems when they overthink the fretting hand. Thet should be putting all their feeling and dramatic energy into the strumming hand, and the fretting hand is mostly the practical problem solver, except with vibrato and bends. But even then, that should come from the wrist and not the hand.
I started learning guitar in the the 1960's. The first thing my guitar teacher taught me was how to set up the action and intonation. Most guitar players that I knew set up their own guitars, and I also showed a number of guitar players how to up set up their own guitars. One issue with low action is that it severely limits how hard you can pick a string and that limits your dynamics. If you are playing metal, you don't have any dynamics as everything is super compressed. If you are playing blues, dynamics is everything. I always kept my Gibsons set up at the factory action height and that served me well. "I've got blisters on my fingers!" (Yeah, I know, that is what Ringo said, but it applies to all new guitar players as well.)
Great tutorial! I like that points made about string height and style of play, ie: shred vs jazz. One of the keys to the setup is NOT the setup exclusively, it is properly crowned frets that produce cleaner play, better intonation, and richer tone. The player greatly influences tone and tonal accuracy by varied finger pressure across the neck.
Well stated. It's such a fine line between just right and no good for low action players. I've played since 1979. I still play the old stuff from Van Halen 1. I use 9-42 with low action. I don't need to adjust the setup much because I control the humidity year round.
I've found that a reasonable gauge string and slighly high action produce better vibrations thru the body. Lower action needs a little help by the electronics.
Slightly higher action is also needed for some of us who go crazy on guitar and once warmed up having those strings just a hair higher evens out the resistance of the string becoming too easy to play on. But 99% of the time my action is about 1.5mm to 2.0mm at the 12th fret. It does depend on what I am playing because I love those articulating notes being able to make tapping with the fretting hand and not your picking hand.
I’ve had a couple low-action setups and learned how to set them up myself. When I’m playing, I barely notice the difference between low and medium action and I find that I tend to get more fret buzz with low action, especially with weather changes. Nowadays I set mine up with “low-medium” action.
I grew up playing a nylon string that I tried to put steels and a magnetic pickup on. That neck went… then I played an old arch top that must have needed a neck reset.
When I went to electric guitar at 13 the local guitar shops would always be discounting electric medium gauge strings often flat wound, so that’s what I would buy. To this day (36 years later) I can’t stand an unwound 3rd string or low action. I always hit those slinky strung guitars out of tune. They don’t feel or sound right to me.
I recently had a neck reset done on an old Gibson of mine stating that I wanted highish action and lo and behold I should have not had it reset because it doesn’t have its old tone.
Medium to High Action is a must for my playing “style”
I happen to be an upright bass player as well. So maybe that explains it.
Very well put. I seem to recall reading that having strings about a half inch off the sound hole plane gets the most volume. Then you get into neck relief , saddle height, nut slot depth , string gauge , intonation ,etc. Always a compromise across the board for style of playing: blue grass requires different from finger style.
An interesting posting; thanks. Something to consider is the effects of age. I've been playing dreadnought acoustic guitars since the mid - 1960s.These days, my finger joints and tendons immediately let me know if a guitar's action is too high. I began to get problems about 25 years ago; maybe more (I'm now in my mid- seventies).
Another issue is string tension. A medium set pulls about 190 lbs on the steel-string guitar, a light or extra light set around 135 to 150 lbs. This makes a huge difference. I have to sacrifice some tone for ease of playing - there's no choice.
I also play a Guild mini-jumbo bass. The action's quite high compared with my dreadnoughts, but the string tension is low - much lower than on an electric bass, or a full size upright acoustic bass.
Maybe string tension rather than action is the most important factor? If so. is there a market for lower tension but thick cross-section strings?
A bunch of string companies make acoustic sets that are lower-tension on the wound strings than their gauge would suggest, typically under some variation of the “Silk And Steel” name
@@jamesc8563 Thanks; I'll look into what's out there.
Fender recommends .010" relief and 4/64" string clearance at 12th fret. Gibson's recommendation is .012" relief and 5/64" bass and 3/64" treble. If you want to play leads on an acoustic, these numbers will be the same.
That's a high enough action to avoid poor setup issues..
@alfsmith4936 What are your numbers?
@alfsmith4936 What numbers do you use?
@alfsmith4936 What measurements do yσυ favoυr?
@alfsmith4936 * crickets *
Malmsteen shreds the high action with 9s or even lighter utilizing a scalloped fretboard and stone plectra. The string vibrates between multiple nodes in halves divided between the scale on multiple axis of the scale length. Lowering changes the ratio in favour of fundamentals with less pronounced overtones. It is more noticeable on bass perhaps?
Great video on the subject Gary, I’ve always went with the manufacturers recommendation on string height and truss rod adjustment but in order to have a good setup the Guitars nut has to be cut right and make sure the frets are level, I have found in the years of setting up guitars some guitars just need more neck relief than others do, I personally run my Gibsons 5/64 on low E 4/64 on high E At the 12 th Fret My Fenders are 4/64 Low E 4/64 at the 17th fret high E
I’m a regular acoustic player with a med/high action and I just got an electric again after about 5 years without one that has quite a bit lower action. I have found that I naturally tend to squeeze the cords on the electric so hard that it almost sounds out of tune at times and I have to make a conscious effort to press lightly to make the cords I’m playing sound right. It really feels like I’m pushing buttons as opposed to squeezing cords. Would a medium to high action help make it feel better playing cords or is it the difference in string size the bigger difference factor?
Thank You ... I'm from New London, CT ... The humidity experienced while living on the shoreline of Long Island Sound was very noticeable, with my guitars ... I was fortunate, in that Caruso music (my local music store) hired excellent technicians. Today, living in the mountains of NC, and although my instruments are tweaked 2 X a year, I've noticed that my necks are more staable. And more pleasurable, to play. **** This is a very important informational video. Again, thank you ...
I like low to medium action like 1.25 to 1.5 mm, but one thing is for sure, having a good low action shows you how good the neck was built.
Nice. Subbed. I dedicated my entire being to guitar from age 15-30. I became quite the Texas Slinger and toured and lived the dream until I realized no matter how good I was, I was still broke, broke, broke. For 35 years, I put it down. Got A career. Made tons of money. Retired. I'm three years back and doing pretty good. My number one secret at 65yo is...be the 15yo kid again. Just rock out! Have fun. AND...practice, practice, practice. Same as before. Good luck gents.
It might sound counter-productive if you want to bend strings, but heavier strings are wider and give your fingers more to push, so playing for a while won't hurt. Using tens is the best for me, bending strings all the time. Having them higher up off the fret-board gives you more room to feel them, not just pushing them down, again, far easier to bend them.
Interesting and seemingly well informed discussion. So, that's how it goes in New England, huh? So, here's a question: Given the appreciation for high action and yet some cognizance of the pain and difficulty for beginners and older folks having to endure increased string tension, as a corollary, what gauge strings do you suggest for both electric and acoustic guitars?