How Viking Names Work
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Viking's on HBO always makes the error of assuming that the names of the "Vikings" worked the same as our names do today, especially concerning their surnames. However this simply is not the case, as I will demonstrate in this video.
Dr. Jackson Crawford on Old Norse Surnames:
• Video
Viking History Playlist:
• Viking History
Vikings Season 5 Predictions:
• Vikings Season 5 - His...
Patreon:
/ historywithhilbert
Facebook: / history-with-hilbert-1...
Send me an email if you'd be interested in doing a collaboration! historywithhilbert@gmail.com
6:56 No, these are all _patronyms_ so the daughter wouldn't be named after her mother, but after her _father_ just like his sons. If Egil Skallagrimsson had a sister, she would be called Skallagrimssdottir.
@Anders Engman You're right. He didn't explain it well. Typically it was the father's name and then either son or daughter. Occasionally the mother's name would be used instead for both sons and daughters. However that was the exception rather than the rule.
@@theprinceofdarkness4679 The mother's name was used when the mother was from a higher social class than the father, when the father was unknown, or the child was a bastard.
On the show "Vikings" Ragnar and Rollo's father's name is actually Sigurd. So that would make Rollo a Sigurdsson. 🌞
I'm glad you pointed this out because it drove me wild that the Vikings producers made such a basic error... By the way, this naming system is called "patrononymic naming" and is still the system used in Iceland and some Scandinavian families.
It's used almost universally in the Slavic world. In fact, instead of saying "Mr. Smith", it's the norm to say "Thomas Peterson" assuming the father was Peter.
I beg to differ on one point. I have my family tree from my grandfathers side that goes back to Norway to 1579. All the females in the tree have "datter" after their Fathers name, not the mothers.
Mine too.
The character "Rollo" in the TV-series "vikings" is a name that "Rolf" has adopted after his baptism. So it was exactly the other way around as shown in the series
Rolf, Rollo was the Duke of Normandy not Ragnars brother. There to protect against further Viking attacks.
I can handle almost every inaccuracy in 'Vikings,' except for when they mess up the names (like you mentioned with Lagertha calling Ivar 'Lothbrok'). The writer seems to think that everyone who is related would have the same surname. Sometimes it is funny and sometimes it is frustrating. Lol
Kayla M Cook what's most frustrating is that it's not as if they don't know these facts. They have very capable historians on their staff. They just consciously choose to disregard them
Since Lagertha is mentioned here, I want to add that Lagertha is not a Viking or Norse name. It comes from Saxo Grammaticus (c. 1160 - c. 1220) who was trying to Latinise the Norse name Hlaðgerðr. Similar is the name of Ragnars brother Rollo. His correct Norse name is Hrolfr but Rollo also comes from Saxo’s Latinising.
@@silungur_ Do you know if the name Ubba is derived from another? Names like Ragnar, Bjorn, Hvitserk etc. are relatively common in the sagas, but Ubba seems to be quite unique. I've read Ragnars saga and the tale of his sons but I can't remember if Ubba is mentioned in them or if he is only mentioned by English historians writing about the Great Heathen Army. If that's the case they may have misheard or mistranslated a more common Norse name, but I don't know which name it could be.
@@brand_holt Ubbe is from Saxo’s “Gesta Danorum”.
In “Ragnars saga loðbrókar” Ragnar has Erik and Agnar with Þóra and with Áslaug he has Ívar beinlausi, Björn járnsíða, Hvítserkur og Rögnvaldur.
In “Þáttur af Ragnars sonum” Ragnar has Erik and Agnar with Þóra and with Áslaug he has Ívar beinlausi, Björn járnsíða, Hvítserkur and Sigurður ormur í auga. Husto and Yngvar are also named as sons of Ragnar with un-named mother(s).
In Saxo’s “Gesta Danorum” Ragnar has two un-named daughters with Lagertha and a son named Fridleif. With Thora he has Radbard, Dunvat, Sivard, Bjørn, Agnar and Ivar. With Svanloga Ragnar has Ragnald, Hvitserk and Erik and Ubbe with un-named mother.
In “Landnámabók” Björn járnsíða is named as a son of Ragnar loðbrók and Alof a daughter of Ragnar.
Ubbi fríski is mentioned in “Fornaldar sögur Norðurlanda”, there in “Sögubrot af nokkrum fornkonungum í Dana ok Svíaveldi”, but he is not a son of Ragnar loðbrók.
In Irish the O in names stands for grandson of and Ní is daughter of
So Patrick O'Donnell means Patrick, grandson of Donnell? Pardon my Anglicized spelling.
That's really interesting, I didn't know about "Ní" meaning daughter of although it's present in many Gaelic names. Thanks for sharing that!
The O means descendant of, Mc or Mac means son of.
That’s so interesting. Thanks for sharing that tidbit. 👍
Soooo onii Chan means grandson and daughter of?
One old norse name I find fascinating, though not very related to the indigenously formed norse names is Atli, which appears all over the place in old norse accounts and is still in common use here in Norway in the form of "Atle". Apparently it comes all the way from Attilla the Hun who was a prominent figure in germanic heroic myths going back to the pre-viking age germanic heroic sagas.
fun fact orm (danish) = worm (english) but in old danish and old norwegian orm translates to snake. The viper in danish is called hugorm litterly meaning strike snake
Sort of similar case in Finnish: the word 'lohikäärme' for dragon translates to salmon snake in modern language. Back in the day 'lohi' obviously didn't refer to fish.
In german it is"Wurm"= worm and for dragon we have either "Drachen" (modern) or Lindwurm (for the sagas) which is confusing because Lind(e) is a kind of tree
war die linde nicht der heilige baum der saxen? (nordishe mytologi) darher lindworm. Der wurm der linde.
Damn I love it when you guys tell me some cool etymology from your languages.. xD
Orm is still snake in Swedish
Ragnar didn't fight wyrm for Asloeg, that was Thora Hjort. Asloeg was his second wife that he met on a viking after Thora had died.
Didnt aslog trick him as well. Come naked but fully clothed and all that shit.
Great video, Hilbert. :)
Hilarious explanation of Egil Skallagrimsson!
Haha thanks pal :D
you laik funny ? skalla = scull grím = grim. bad mud head. 4 x 105.
More hilarious is that -dottir is named after her mother... They are always(!) named after father. There are no Ingridsdottir or Helgadottir.
It probably don't have much to do with the overall "viking"-culture because there was quite a difference between the Norse and the Swedish vikings but if you are interested you should check out "Hälsingland" which was a viking country just north of the middle of Sweden (today's Sundsvall) with set rules and laws, one of the oldest known law text are on "Forsaringen" which is one of many rings which have been found all over today's Hälsingland, the Swedish northcoast and way over in Finland.
We also had our own runes, "hälsingerunor", and gods. No one in Hälsingland had heard of Odin (and if they had they couldn't care less) but instead we praised Tor...
Helgadóttir is comen in Icelandic, helgi is for men helga is femail. helgi , helga, helga helga. complicated grama, all other is right, helgi mens holy, alike holy shit, man version of a name sounds alike femail. grama, all other is right. 4x105
You make it sound that girls always have a matronym while boys have a patronym, the truth is both boys and girls in viking times could have either a patronym or a matronym. If for example the mother had a greater fortune or came from a more noble family the children would get a matronym, like Loki’s name was Loki Laufeyjarson, so named because his mother’s name was Laufey.
Note that things are not quite as simple as Hilbert suggests, Egill Skallagrímsson father isn’t named Skallagrím but Skallagrímr, although the root of the name is Skallagrim.
In the subjective it’s Skallagrímr, in the objective: Skallagrím, in the depedent possessive: Skallagrími, in the independent possesive as in a patronymic: Skallagríms
And Skallagrímr isnt named Skallagrímr but just Grímr, "Skalla" is his byname because hes bald.
I want to believe you ,but feminist and sjw have taken away all credibility of people with colored hair lmao .
Alright, I feel a correction is in order. As for Harald Hårfagre(Finehair) his name has nothing to do with him combing his hair.
The actual story or at least how it is told in Norway (which is important as he supposedly became king of Norway) got his name from saying that he wouldn't cut his hair until he had united Norway as one single kingdom.
Why supposed, well he never united ore then the southern part of Norway and the northern part remained "free" from the rule of a single Norwegian king for many years after Haralds death.
Wonderful vid! Keep up the brilliant work! 👍❤
Thank you very much :)!
I’ve noticed that the oldest families in the area of southern Norway where my father was from often have these combinations as first names and the surname is of the locality or farm they’re from. These surnames are seen today as names of towns along the river valleys.
Western Norway as well. And, I would suspect, most of Norway.
Haha I love that you used a picture of Skallagrim...
Another good video - keep up the good work!
Basically the "Viking surnames" were like most other surnames - they were either epithets (usually alluding to some characteristic or deed, but sometimes also a profession - e.g. tuki smiÞr (Toke the smith) is recorded on at least one mid-Jutlandic runestone, surely to distinguish him from another Toke), patronymic surnames (the "-sson" names you mentioned with a male name at the beginning) and even occassionally matronymic surnames (such as the Danish king Svend Estridsen, whos mother Estrid was of royal lineage, and therefore of higher rank than his father, who was "just" a jarl or earl). Eventually - as in almost all other christian countries - the practice of giving children surnames when baptized became formalized, but was still based on the same sorts of tradition. In Denmark this eventually happened in the 19th century, even though laws about it were made in 1771. Up until then patronymic surnames were the rule of thumb for both sexes, and often a son would be named after the paternal grandfather, so Jens Hansen's son would be called Hans Jensen, whos son might in turn be called Jens Hansen (unless an extra epithet was necessary to destinguish him from another of the same name - in which case the farm's name was often used, so he may for example be named Jens Hansen Østergaard). As Stefán mentioned, the old way of doing it still exists on Iceland - I believe it is the last of the christianised European countries to still use patronymic surnames. So the tradition survived for a really long time, and indeed still survives.
Regarding runes, you are right in that the Viking age runes were based on the older runes. The number of runes was reduced, with some runes used for a variety of letters instead of one for each letter used in the spoken language (as in the example of "tuki" above, the u was also an o, and the i was also an e. This developed again to pricked runes (to distinguish for example a "g" from a "k", a prick was added to the rune for "k"), and was even finally adapted for use by craftsmen in the middle ages with a yet another version of the futhark.
A little sidestep with Ragner Lodbrog/Lothbrok. The last part of his epithet "-brok" could also mean a piece of cloth or a flag, and survives in the name of the Danish flag, Dannebrog. The first part apparently means "red". I know you like flags, so that is something you might be interested in looking in to. The modern version of the myth of the flag's origin is however due to a series of mistakes in recording the story in the 1500's and later, and the real background to the myth is quite difficult to work out. It is probably a version of the "vision of Constantine"-myth though, and belonged to another earlier battle than the cited battle at Lyndanisse in Estonia in 1219.
Cheers Cris, glad to see you're still watching and commenting!
That's really interesting about the different Scandinavian traditions and how they slowly modernised, it was exactly the same situation in the Netherlands with say Hendrikjanszoon and then Jan Hendrikszoon. There are those who would argue this goes back to the older Germanic tradition of keeping a person's deeds alive through the name and that by naming someone with the same name as their ancestor they would inherit the power and wisdom and most importantly fame of the deceased. I hope Icelanders continue to do it.
Yeah runes are really interesting and I plan to make a few videos about them in the future looking at the Elder, Younger and later Futharks and then the variations between them and their dual function as spiritual or magical as well as obviously economic and practical symbols.
Quite a while ago someone commented on a video of mine about the Dannebrog meaning the "Dane-Flag" and told me some of the history of it as I think one of the oldest flag in Europe still in use. The Danes won at Lyndanisse whilst carrying it into battle as their standard when fighting in Estonia against the pagans, hence the crusader cross I think? Thanks for sharing this info with me, you are absolutely correct, flags fascinate me!
The naming process can have had roots in an immortalisation of the ancestors, I suppose. But it seems to be more a way of keeping the chosen names used by a particular family in rotation by historic times. Names have always followed fashions, and this seems to be a naming fashion used in Scandinavia at one time, and apparently also the Netherlands.
Runes are indeed interesting. They are the only form of local written sources we have for the Iron and Viking ages in Scandinavia, but are often difficult to interpret. The medieval runes (here I include the later Viking age inscriptions) tend to tell us more about the users of the runes. Although they certainly also had magical connotations in earlier periods, I feel this side of their use often tends to be exaggerated by new age attitudes. But certainly, the ability to “capture” and preserve the spoken word in written form bore a “magical” and symbolic meaning - even into the medieval period (e.g. the runic inscriptions on wooden tags found at Bergen in Norway).
The Dannebrog is the oldest still used national flag in the world. The “official” legend tells of it falling from the skies at the battle of Lyndanisse in June 1219, rallying the Danes and leading to the victory over the Estonians and conquest of Estonia. Originally the legend was connected to the battle at Felin (now Viljandi in Southern Estonia) in 1208 in stead, but was altered in a transcription by the monk Peder Olsen in the 16th century, as the battle of Felin had been forgotten by this time (and is only really known from the writings of Henry of Livonia). The origins of the flag can probably be traced back to at least the mid-12th century though (a coin of king Valdemar 1st of Denmark shows a cross banner), and was possibly some type of papal banner given in connection with the crusades against the Wends. It is tempting to want the name to mean the flag of the Danes, and some etymologists do ascribe that meaning, but was we are dealing with Danne- and not Dane-/Daner-, the origin probably has to be sought elsewhere - and “danne-“ with the meaning “red” is pretty likely.
And no worries :). As long as you keep making the good videos I will continue to watch and comment :)
Your pronunciation is really impressive, thank you
Excellent video Hilbert!!
Thank you. I was stationed in Iceland on two separate six month deployments and I had heard many Viking names and got an abbreviated explanation but, until now wasn’t really clear how they all meshed.
I used to work with a federal officer whose
name was James Thorbjorson.
ROFLOL because of Skall's picture!
Ivar would be Ivar Ragnarsson, the bone less.
Of course. That was my first thought. If "Lothbrok" was memorable(=relatable with the exact person) enough, he could even be called Lothbrokson. But never Ivar Lothbrok. That's like if Beren Erchamion had a son and you called him...Bert Erchamion(which'd work only if is son was also missing an arm). Doesn't work like that.
Best explanation I've heard for Ivar's name, why he was called Boneless,
is that he moved so smoothly in the battle, people got the impression he must have no bones to be so elastic.
This rings a bell in me, because he was said to have been one of the best warriors of his time.
Aand if we remember from our school years, how he best fighters moved, well... :)
Funny sidenote on the surname "Lothbrok".
I'm Swedish and in the Swedish language the name is written "Lodbrok" which in modern Swedish means something like Hobo-Pants (this is modern Swedish so my translation shouldnt be considered as the true meaning of the name).
To Loda is basically to drift around aimlessly. A "Lodare" in Swedish is another name for homeless people, or a drifter. It usually also implies that the hobo/drifter is also dirty or shaggy. And as mentioned before, Brok is an old norse version for pants. Today we say Byxor or Brallor.
Anyway. Ragnar "Hobo-Pants" is what the name means in Modern Swedish, but the true name is something more like Ragnar Shaggy/dirty-breeches. But according to the Sagas Ragnar got the name for wearing pants made out of Wolf-skin to protect him from a poisonous snake. But it is believed that Ragnar was born as Ragnar Sigurdsson, the son of a Swedish King called Sigurd Ring... Funny though how languages evolve over time :)
Interesting stuff haha, I can see why tramp and shaggy would become the same word from Old Norse to modern Swedish :)
Is it lod because of the way that the old Norse letter for th was written as a lower case d with a bar through the tail?
there is a runic element in norse naming of things, a belief in imbuing a certain power to someone, or something, by how you spell it. there's also a belief in not speaking a name, if it was considered a dangerous being or thing. the belief in the power of the spoken, and written word. the bardic tradition comes from this belief, our own "if you can't say something nice, then don't say it at all" comes from this. but the names you see, with say double consonants, show an emphasis on that rune being imbued. you see this in hebrew, and kanji as well. similar beliefs, worlds apart. they sometimes deliberately misspelled a name to give it a specific power, although these weren't considered misspellings to them, the meaning was more important.
not a phonetic sound, but imbuing the word with twice the runic power. norse were strong believers in the magical properties of runes. similar to the celt's druidic traditions.
I'm not really sure where you got that idea from. It seems you are reading more into runes than was ever intended by the original users of them. Runes evolved to be economic - there were fewer in the Viking age than in the iron age, maybe to enable more people to be able to read and write, and due to most inscriptions being in stone or other difficult to carve materials, many letters were skipped over in the inscriptions - an precisely the double consonants you mention are often economised to just one in the surviving inscriptions. Added to all that, most European languages had very fluid spelling before the advent of printing in Europe. So you get a lot of alternative spellings for many words, just as children still do when they are learning to write. I don't think anything more than that should be attributed to Viking age spelling.
only got what my friend, an Asatruar priest, and Edred Thorsson tell of.
I had a feeling something like that was the case. I think I read one of Stephen Flowers' (or Edred Thorsson, if you prefer) books once. I'm pretty sure it was him who was told by each rune what they meant by holding them (like a modern Odin) - but that doesn't make much academic sense.
Admittedly the runes did originally have meanings that could be used as shorthand in some cases, and sejd-women may possibly have used them for "magical" purposes, if the saga are to be believed (there are many problems with this, however). And yes, I know names probably originally had "magical" meanings for the owner of the name, as in all shamanic traditions. But by the Viking age we're also dealing with standard names that followed fashions, just as they do now. The names in themselves, however, have nothing to do with the way people wrote using runes.
Indeed, the Norse also very much sought after swords that had writing on them, like the Ulfberth. They thought that all runes and symbols added power, even if most of them were illiterate. People who could read and write them were sometimes thought to have some kind of magical gift as well. Because after all, writing made it possible for people to tell a story or say a name without speaking a word.
What about the ____ketil names?
I found it was a common name, yet thr meaning of ketil itself seems to be helmet, which seems strange.
Great video - I’m at the same bit in Vikings coincidentally. Scottish Gaelic has Nic for daughter of.
Lothbrok is a nickname. That tradition carried on into christian times. A king was called lisping and hobble another was called caress, thought to too close to one of his knights. They were called by their father with suffix son or dotter. Furthermore family and clan were added. Sigrid Storråda Tostesdotter skilfingar Göte. Her first name was Sigrid, her nickname was Storråda(Great Governess), family was skilfingar and tribe götar, västgötar to be precise. Sven Tveskägg Haraldsson Jellingar Dan, The more fun is the king of the svear Erik Eriksson segerrik Erikar. Lots of eriks.
Enjoyed the video, as always. I couldn't find the link that you referenced.
Thank you very much :)
Oh dear have I forgotten to link things again, sorry! :D
Which link were you after?
+History With Hilbert I found them, just looking in the wrong place. Thank you.
Jeffrey Webb No bother :)
In Norway we quit calling each generation by the name of the father (+sen or +datter) around 1900 I think, by that time these names become family names that were less changeable. My last name comes from my great great grandfather.
trondsi
At least Iceland kept it up.
Unlike you domesticated and compliant people.
Fantastic video. I love looking at Viking culture.
The princess' name was Thora Borgahjort, I think you will find. There's an entirely different tale about how Ragnar met and married Aslaug.
I also want to point out, that you would use your fathers name until you made a name of your own. This would happen through fame for a deed or through a story told by your friends. It would have been Björn Ragnarson until the battle when he earned the name "ironside".
Yes that's a good point actually :)
I think sometimes you might be named after a prominent feature or something like that, for example you might be called "the Red" if you had ginger hair or something along those lines.
Just remember. The Norse didnt write it down. All the nicknames are in contemporary Christian scripts or in later sagas, written down hundred of years after. Both the Christians and the writers of the Nordic sagas from 1050-1350 are Romantic writers. They tend to paint a more vivid picture. But all contemporary and later written evidence, does indeed point towards a trend of Norse people using nicknames and there seems to have been a widespread trend in the Norse, to claim heritage to the gods or famous people. Like being in family with Odin or Thor or several major chiefs in the Great Heathen army claiming to be sons of the legendary Ragnar Lothbrok.
And unlike the Franks. In Norse, the nicknames did describe the person or a feat. The Franks often used some sort of mockery or sarcasm. Like Charles the Fat, even though all contemporary scripture, describe him as lean and fit. Or Charles the Bald, here the scripture all say he had a full and beautiful set of hair.
Like "Little John" in Robin Hood being actually a big guy and some American Football player, who are huge black dudes having nicknames like "Tiny".
Dineen Serpa I think that's for irony's sake.
I have a question about that. Under a patronymic system... what if you didn't know who your father was? Would you be, like, Sigurd Bjorksson from your mom? Did Viking, excuse me, Norse society care about/apply social stigma to "bastardry"?
I sure would love a video about the name Hilbert.
Ragnar Lodbrok actually its a suit to protect him against the worm, its something about that it couldn't catch fire.
Even as late as 1901 my grandfather's family in Norway used both a "regular" surname and a paternal surname. He used Jakobsen (his father was Jakob Olafsen) at times and Weibust at others. When he came to America he chose Weibust but swapped the ei...thus Wiebust.
Small correction; it's _Norse_ names. "Viking" isn't a culture, it was a word that mean raider.
Fara i viking = go raiding
Wardeni
It was a word that encompassed children who watched a recent TV series.
Hilbert
I remember my friend who studied history at uni, said that English(and other areas of isles) surnames ending with "Son and Ing" are Viking surnames may you please do a video on that , there was this survey(forget the details on its date) but it was made in England and it found (what I previously said above:) " ) when I put up those details on search bar there's no video mentioning this survey (which I am trying to find to see if its true(because in no Linguistic or Professor but I'm aware there's a lot of Scandinavian names with son and some other descendants stayed in pommy vile(and the evil Celts ) because I don't have a lot of personal books so I have to look online and online is full of bs and Blarney , one day I hope to find a stack of historical books like Crassus and all that stuff, cheers Hilbert good luck with your Study's
The rule for surnames is father's name + son.
And there is no additional s to designate ownership.
So it should be Skallagrimson not Skallagrimsson.
Only if the name of the father actually ends in s do you get the double s.
Like if the father was named Anders or Niels, then you get the double s like Andersson and Nilsson.
Otherwise NO.
Common mistake to make though, lots of Scandinavians make the same mistake of assuming an extra s that shouldn't be there ;)
Thank you for this great video I had to subscribe to see what else you have to tell:) I love to know as much as possible about my ancestry. I do genealogy and I only have one person that I could get back to this time with, it is not an easy thing to do. But one of my ancestors is Björn Ironside and I have the holy Knud and others. But you always have this doubt. So I took a DNA test just to see what regions was in my DNA. I was 81% Scandinavian which I think is a lot and to me validates what I had found. So for anyone else who are curious take a test. It can't show you who you were related to, but it corresponds well to the research I had done. But there was one very big surprise though. In all my research I have never found even one person from Norway it was all Danish and Swedish with a little bit of German. But my test shows that the most of my DNA I have is from Norway. I didn't see that coming. I had my mother do a test too and she had 69% Scandinavian DNA and hers too was mostly from Norway. But in her case she had 9% from the British Isles which was a surprise since I didn't have that. I never watch Vikings on Netflix I saw a trailer and found it a bit silly. Just like when they made Reign and made Mary Stuart into some kind of hero and her sickly husbond the same. I'd rather watch videos like yours:) So thank you again!!!
Met an Icelandic once with one hell of a badass name,
*ivar gunnarsson*
Hilbert, may I ask you, where you from? Are you Danish, English or Dutch?
Maybe Frysk?
What does the name Beowulf come from like I know ulf means wolf but what does beo come from
Hilbert! I can't watch your latest vid because it's blocked on copyright grounds, for contains BBC Worldwide material! Please can we have a new version which plays in the U.K.?
Paula Unger Sorry I'm getting back to you so late but I think you found the copyright free version already - thanks for letting me know all the same!
Very interesting Video!
I have a question and i hope you can answer it to me :D
So my name is Arwin, i found out that the Name means in ancient Norse: "Eagle Friend" from Arn = Eagle and Winr, Winiz, Wini = Friend.
My name can mean in Old Germanic "Friend of the People", too.
But the funny thing is, i am not Scandinavian or German..i am Persian and in persian my name means "Experience".
So now my Question: Do you know how it can be that my Name is in all of these 3 cultures available? Has it something to do with the Indo-European Language Family? And if yes how can it be that the meanings are so diffrent.
I hope you have an Answer.
Have a Nice Day. :)
Thank you for this video Hilbert. I'd also like to add a little input from my Afrikaans perspective regarding the Lothbrok name... As an Afrikaner, Lothbrok sounds very similar to "Losbroek". Which translates to "Loose Breeches" or "Hanging Pants". And what I may perceive as a comical take on Ragnar probably having trouble keeping his pants up when it came to the ladies... 😂 Just a thought.
As you know Hilbert, the frisians also used this before Napoleon forced us into familynames.
So you dont Think the meaning of ragnar would have meaning from like the Danish word “ragn” we use in modern Day for crows .. like Odins crows.. dunno at all but i always guessed that
Lothbrok is not a surname, it's just a nickname like "Ironside", "Arrow", "Lucky", they didn't have surnames per se, but patronyms, and Ragnar Lothbrok's was "Sigurdson" AAAND... there's no such a thing as "Viking" name ("Viking name" makes as much sense as, say "farmer name" or "sailor name")
If you watch the video I mention all of that ;)
In danish lothbrok is Lodbrog "lod" Means Destiny, "det er dit lod" = "it is your Destiny" and brog Means banner, the danish flag is called dannebrog (in the old days danebrog) =the danish banner, i'm sure lodbrog Means destinybanner, as vikings have an issue about how the ravenbanner behaved before battle win/lose
Skagenin They didnt speak Danish
I know they didn't, but the Linguistic way from lodbrok to hairy trousers is even more strange, but still the word "lod" is very old and so is brog, before battle Vikings have an issue if the ravenbanner was "flying" as i was some sort af sign , but anyway "Destinybanner" sound more likely than "hairy trousers" my opinion :-)
maybe ;-)
Want to tell you that alot of these old norse words still mean the same and are pronounced about the same here in scandinavia, like people are still named thorbjørn, (you showed eyvind my dad is named øyvind, which i am guessing is the same meaning island wind) and so on.
You must distinguish between real names and nick names. Skallagrim was Grim’s son and because he was bald from his early teen, hence he was called Grims’s son den skallige, Skallagrim, Orm (Serpent) as family name and because he was a red haired was called Röde Orm (Red Serpent), Blodyxa (Blood Axe) etc. In Sweden this tradition lived on to the 18 century, in soldiers name like Modig, Stark, Kula, Svärd, Pistol, Granat, Stålhandske, Lans etc. (Brave, Strong, Ball, Sword, Pistol, Grenade, Steelglove, Lance) to divide by all Anderssons, Larssons, Perssons and the other sons names by the thousends.
Skallagrim is in a way a nickname as well. It means Grim the Bald. The man was probably just named Grim. Hence, nicknames creep into "surnames" too. Great video thought.
skalla men skull
06:53 Incorrect; All offspring are FATHERSNAME +Dóttir/Son(depending on your gender)
I was under the impression that Ragnar got (or took) the surname Lodbrok because he wore trousers (brokor) coated with pitch (lod) to prevent getting poisoned by a lindworm.
My last name has ties to the Vikings, the most famous being Warinus De La Strode who was a general of William the Conqueror.
what do you make of the name Holjeson??
does this apply to all the germanic tribed and languages?
Yes and no. The structure is mostly the same for this period but obviously the language is different. Where Old Norse might use "son" in say "Sigurdson", Frisian might use "ma" in say "Jellema." Both mean "son of" but are different because they are in a different language. The practice of naming people after their famous deeds is very common among the Germanic peoples, and kennings are a large part of both Anglo-Saxon and Norse heroic poetry and sagas such as the Icelandic Sagas and Beowulf.
How to pronounce hvitserk,pls anyone tell me
In the show, Hvitserk is pronounced "Vit - serk". This was highly confusing for me, as many people use Icelandic pronunciation for Old Norse, in which Hvitserk would be pronounced "Kveet-sehrk." However I saw someone mention that in Old Norse, an "Hv" would be pronounced with an Hv sound rather than a Kv, citing some alliteration patterns from an Old Norse poem.
As I recall in the episode you refer to I think calling Ivar, Ivar Lothbrok was a tongue in cheek at saying Ivar whonthinks he is as famous as daddy was.
lothbrock wasnt his
surname his full name was:
Ragnar "Lodbrok" Sigurdsson.. and Sigurdsson means son of Sigurd.. like the name Andersson thats missused today
Same goes for the old Czech names like: Vratislav - the one who returns the glory, or Bořivoj - the one who shatters the ranks, Svatopluk - holly army...
What would steigar translate to?
season 5 isn't out yet lol
I learned elder futhark a few years back though Im not as good with it as I once was I can identify 4 out 6 names; Bjorn, Ivar, Ubbe and Ragnar the last two are a lost for me
In Danish. a common word based on the root "loth" is not really used anymore, but it has survived in words like "mørklødet", which means "dark-furred" and is sometimes used as a eufemism for people of darker complexion with dark hair.
Phrenomythic That's interesting, and often the way it goes in languages, certain words disappear but remain in certain compounds or idioms. Thanks for sharing this :)
I find these things fascinating! There are many living fossils in our language.
Funny also to see how Afrikaans has preserved a lot of (more standard) Dutch in expressions like that too, even if lost in everyday speech.
As do I!
Yeah it's interesting but often the case, the same is true with Quebecois in Canada being more like older, farmer's French compared to modern France.
In Norwegian we still use the word "lodden", which means hairy. And in some Norwegian dialects it's still called "brok" (pants).
Grete Sings we also still use 'lodden' in danish, with the same meaning, but that isn't really that strange, given that your 'bokmål' is very close to danish :)
girls did not get their mother's name, it was always the father's name
Even if the father were unknown? Or didnt want to confess to fatherhood?
Flóki Vilgerðarson...
Im danish, as an example my lastname is caspersen (in norway and denmark we use "sen" not "son") - now, my dad's name isn't Casper, but one of my ancestors name was, and he is the one our lastname derives from
I know in Denmark and Norway they do use a lot more of "sen" in say Andersen or Petersen or even Thoresen which must go back to a claimed lineage from the gods.
casper is not a viking name.
I am Icelandic and we use son, and as I am sure you know Icelandic is the closest to the old language.
Actually as a norwegian I can read most of the icelandic text, not all but I can read most so I can make sence of a sentence usually, especially because most of the sounds are similar to new norwegian sounds. There are some difference in how some of the letters looks but their prononciation are similar still.
Mathias Caspersen Yes, us Swedes have last names that end with "son" or "sson" a lot more than the Norwegians with "sen".
Boneless is a mis-translation. Bein means "leg" in Scandinavian. His name is Legless - meaning he lost a leg in battle.
Bein can mean both bone and leg so it's not a mistranslation but an alternate translation.
Hi, History With Hilbert.
I'm danish, and i'd like to add a comment about Ragnar Lothbrok, or as we call him here: Regner Lodbrog. As you can see, the names are virtually identical, and in the legend we have about him, his last name does indeed refer to his breeches or pants. What is also identical is that the danish version is a compound name as well, it's made up of the words lod, which is a short form of 'lodden' which does indeed mean either hairy or sometimes fuzzy, and then the word brog. It is this latter part that i would like to focus on in this comment, as it is also used in the name for our national flag, the Dannebrog. According to some sources, it has the broader meaning 'cloth', thus giving the meaning "Danish Cloth" to our flag. According to the legend, we got the flag during the battle of Lyndanaisse in Estonia, in 1219, where the danish king Valdemar Sejr (Victory) was fightinig "the heathens" when suddenly the flag fell from the skies. When king Valdemar saw this, he ordered his bishop to sart praying to god, and the more he prayed, the better the danish forces fared, but when the bishop grew tired, the enemy began advancing. The king therefore ordered two of his strongest warriors to help the bishop stay upright so that he could continuer his prayers, and thus ensure victory for the danish army. While the legend itself is rather dubious, it's a historical fact that the Dannebrog has been our flag ever since that time, making it the oldest flag in the world in continuous use to this day.
P.S. Thanks for making some very interesting videos.
Gert Brink Nielsen the story is straight from the OT book of Joshua, with joshua in prayer having his arms held high for him. It seems more like something a scald would make up afterwards rather than an authentic recounting of a historic event.
there doesn't exist a "Danish Legend" of Ragnar Loðbrok, his legend was only documented in Icelandic sources.
Lothbrok was a Burka/Berctha/Parctha viking. Loth is an ancient word meaning farm of the high herdsman.
Lothbrokson?
Or you are at or before the onset of surnames?
Or it predates this naming convention?
you are very knowledged!
How about Thorfinn's name?
Some say that Ivar the Boneless was very agile & therefore they ment that there was no bones in his body!
Johnson became a poplar Viking surname??
Fascinating stuff! By the way, I always thought Ivar would be pronounced 'Ee-var', rather than 'Eye-var'. Just on what I see from most European languages other than English. Am I wrong? I'm genuinely curious :)
He just pronounces all the names the english way, Thor would also be Tor rather than THor. And yes, Ivar would be Evar rather than Eyewar, its just the I, that is pronounced eye in english.
Old Breton for “Hilbert” is “Cadwalou”.
The Viking Rollo’s name sounds almost like the modern Breton name Rouallo, which means “Bright Lineage”.
I think Rouallo is likely taken from French Raoul (English Ralph). Rollo's name was actually Hrolfr to my knowledge, and Rollo is just the Latin version of the name.
And I'm very sure that while cadwalou and Hilbert may have the same meaning, they're not the same name given that Cadwalladr (welsh) doesn't take anything from Hilbert. That would be akin to saying that ragnar is the same name as Abdullah (im not great with arab names so I'm sure it's wrong but you get my point)
Omg I'm 4 years late to this video but was watching season 5 of Vikings last week and I was losing my sh*t over the "Ivar Lothbrok / Bjorn Lothbrok" etc!!
THANK YOU for the moment of redemption while watching this lol 😁
Nice video! I loved the breakdown of the compound names. Always found them cool. If I may ask, why are Forgotten Roots and History Truths featured on your channel?
LegoMonkeycat Thanks very much!
I subscribed to a lot of "history related" channels in the beginning so I could look out for potential response videos to make, but I've just had a look at these two channels you mention and they're into some pretty dodgy stuff that I don't want featured on my channel at all - thanks for the heads up!
History With Hilbert
Thank you very much for removing them! I was quite glad when I saw them gone. They were quite racist and I don't want that kind of stuff associated with one of my favourite history channels.
LegoMonkeycat Too true, thanks again, and sorry it took me so long to actually reply, I read your comment a while ago when you sent it and had a look at the channels in question and unsubscribed. I've since added some featured channels that do history and languages which I know well so actually want to feature xD
Thanks for all your support on the channel :)
History With Hilbert
It's fine. Thanks for getting around to replying.
All the the featured channels seem deserving; Lindybeige, Metatron, Leornende Eald Englisc, Armchair History, TopTenz (not my favourite, but a lot better than most list channels), Jackson Crawford, etc.
When I have time, I need to catch up on all the History with Hilbert content I've missed with school being busy.
Yeah, I know most of the people running the channels to some degree now that I've personally gone through and added them. All in good time haha :D
And tell me about it!
I'm curious since I don't speak Norwegian or Swedish nor Old Norse, but why do you pronounce Thor with an English "th"? I'm Danish and have met numerous people named Thor and their "h" has been silent.
I think Danish lost the th sound didn't it?
Either that or its from the German tyr maybe
The dutch word 'broek " means "drainage" , brook in english , avløp in norsk.
extremely critical to this video, dude u took most of this from vikings?
"bert is used in old Germanic names like Englebert..."
* And Robert? - Bit more common. Apparently means fame and bright...(?)
Rage of the Turnip
Humperdink.
Make a video of "Battle bright"!
Have you heard or seen the name Kolbein as a first name in Norway?
Kolbein is used very seldom as of today in Norway, there are about 100 with that name in 2020
A little warning about the show plot being revealed would have be very much appreciated. I'm watching this in my jammies, ready to fall asleep, and you go and tell what exactly Ivar is revenging. ;\
i am suposely a descendent of a viking but my last name is the viking name my last name is Varzim ( thats not the original viking name but the name after several alterations over time ) can some one say if that my name is really from a viking , ( if my country help to find out im portuguese)
I think "boneless" could be a poetic metaphor for the wind.
So Ivar the Wind was maybe a great sailor who "controlled" the winds.
My second name is arnbjorn ^^
Yeah my father was a reenacter and had weird ideas
Don Arnbjorn Corleone? That is kind of weird.😀
don't forget the ?Gothic? -ez like Juarez, Martinez, Cortez
I think that's the same patronymic system
Hild shouldn't be translated to battle, it's more like guild. Or "the leaders closest men and lifeguards"
I thought the name was Ragnar Siggurdson?
Actually both sons and daughters could get surnames based on both their parents. And they could go by both. It was more of descriptions than names really so context mattered.
How about Vargaros?
Broek also means pants in afrikaans. is there a relationship between nordic languages and germanic languages?
Yes, they are all inodeuropean, and old norse branched out from old germanic
Nordic languages are part of the Germanic language group :). And Afrikaans is of course closely related to Dutch.
Interesting, i can pick up words from other germanic languages like german or dutch flemish etc but nordic languages sound foreign to me
That's mostly because of the geographical separation between Scandinavia and mainland Europe/Britain. There wasn't a dialect continuum between Scandinavia and North/West mainland Europe. Long lasting empires like the Frankish Empire and the Holy Roman Empire played their part too in separating most of Scandinavia from the rest of the Germanic speakers. The inclusion of Denmark in Scandinavia makes it a bit more complex, but that's the gist of it.
And the German language was especially late to be standardized, thus there were a lot of dialects in Germany that were very close to Dutch. Factors like these and Roman/French (spelling) influence are major reasons for the similarities you see between Dutch and German and therefor also between Afrikaans and German.
Here's a Indo-European language chart, the Germanic ones are in the left bottom corner. Red language are extinct and the green ones are still spoken.
They're all Indo European...in fact, the archaic English word "breeches" or "britches" is probably related to it, and English (or more properly, Anglo Saxon) was a Germanic language, and somewhat more closely related to Dutch and Afrikaans than old Norse would be.
Good video.
Ancient Germanic royalty had another kind of surnames that were hereditary. Good examples are found in Beowulf, where the Danish King Hrothgar, his nephew Hrothulf, and their more distant kinsman Hnaef could all be called Scyldinga, 'the Scylding', and their family was Sycldingas 'the Scyldings'. The same name for the same dynasty came down in Old Norse as Skjoldungar.
It's interesting you mention this not only because it's another element to older Germanic naming habits that I hadn't thought to mention in this video but also because a video I'm currently working on is about the legendary King Finn and will of course mention the events in Finnsburh in which Hnæf is killed.
Yes and no. Skjoldunger, Ynglinger, Knytlinger and so on, arent surnames or used a surnames. They are family names or names of the House they belong to or often just a name describing a certain family or household (like often in the Icelandic saga, they describe the place they come from, like the Laugerlings (Family settled in the Lauger area on Iceland). And not royalty. any wealthy or powerful family could be refered to by family name. There are countless of references in the Icelandic sagas of these family names. Often only referring to a strong family from a small part of Iceland. Not even a chief or Jarl.
You never really have mentions of norse people with the family name as surname. You would not call Harald Gormsen (danish form) aka Harald Bluetooth for Harald Knytling, but you might say "Harald of the Knytlings". Knytling meaning family originating from Knud den Store (the Great).
So not so much the Norse. But you do find plenty of examples of Germanic usage in Franconia and other West and Middle Frankish areas, where they used the Family name as a sort of surname. Like the Karlings.
So yes and no :-)
Karakoth truth
Karakoth No, Harald didn't desend from Knud the great he was Knud's grandfather. But since Knud was the most famous he might have given name to family later or it's some unknown Knud way back in history.
Broek in Dutch in names very often means Swamp
There are two different ways of spelling "a" in both the elder and younger futhark, and you've spelled Ragnar as Rągnąr or Rågnår, and Ivar as Ivąr or Ivår.
Also, I believe the etymology of Hvitserk is White Shirt.
I've heard it mentioned too that that is the meaning.
@@rasmusolsson7877 In modern Icelandic at least Hvítserkur means literally that; "white shirt/gown"
I'm a little irritated that you dropped all the radicals/commas and umauts, and the Þ and Ð.
Would he not be Ivar Ragnarson? As much as Ragnar wouldbe Sigurdson (according to the myth)?
They would.