Hey I think you should make smadh videos like why no one plays robin or corrine, why everyone plays cloud, sword chaeacters: the characters that are all the same or heavies: the advantage monsters. Idk I just know you like smash and its a nice break from league
@@VarsVerum I love smash and your videos WNOP would be so good and also the archetypes would be quite cool and funny. I have a smash related question though, do you have any characters you hate like yone in smash.
I just had a game vs an actually competent vayne top player as singed, and it was the least fun I've ever had in my 3 years of playing league, level 2 we traded kills, but since she took tp she just froze the wave near her tower for over 8 minutes, if I tried to break it i lost half of my hp in 3 autos, if I tried proxying i got killed because of the enemy jg and mid babysitting her 24 7, and her buying shieldbow just made it way worse, it was the most traumatizing thing I've had tp deal with, even with ult and ghost i couldn't catch up to her before getting kited to death and even with grievous wounds she still healed a lot of her hp back, I'm still with ptsd of suffering that crap Fuck vayne top
Against Vayne as Singed you can really only Proxy farm. Try and keep track of her so you can ghost away in time. Take Ghost Teleport and rush Armor Boots. Not much else you can do against her unfortunately. Thats most matchups for singed though and once you get the hang of it he is VERRRRRY rewarding. One of my all time favorites to play right next to Twitch and Darius.
@@bonkwave1604 yeah i tried doing that and had ghost but all the time i got ganked and killed whether I had ghost or not, the jungler was just waiting topside the whole gane so i either risked it and most likely died or got like 10 cs every 5 minutes
@@alejandropetit6573 Ok so in this scenario you need to be warding more. But control wards and between waves keep up vision. If you see the Jungler enter your side of the map you yeet yourself outta there. This wastes their time (They dont know where you are since you were just there a wave ago) and its likely Vayne will also go looking. This buys time for your team botside AND gives you time to reset and get to lane and these tiny reset advantages will turn into a real advantage. Takes a bit of practice and a lot of map awareness but a good singed can Carry a game with no Kills or Assists sometimes. Just keep practicing and youll get there
Pour one out for the Pantheon at 12:19 who absolutely YEETED himself into the other team to stop the baron take and promptly got blasted into the shadow realm. Rest in Peace brave soldier, your sacrifice was not in vain
I dunno man, everyone starts with 500 gold, all camps have same timers, both sides have same minion wave speeds, frequencies, quantities. Everyone gets the same rune setups, *I dunno man...*
Lmaooo “Darius isn’t a 1v9 hyper carry, you just need to respect him when he’s right on top of you” as a literal Darius 1v9 hyper carry clip is playing on screen
@@catrielmarignaclionti4518 Yup. The only speed you OUGHT to worry about is attack speed. Least as Darius because the sooner you proc Noxian Might, the better.
@@boxtank5288 Which is why most Darius players run Ghost. I've even stopped running Flash so I can keep the TP pressure. If I need to escape then I'll just Ghost away. It's got a shorter cd than flash and the only downside is I can't get over walls when enemy players flash behind them.
My problem is not with champions being lane bullies, as i know it's an integral part for their gameplay gimmick to work. What grinds my gears sometimes is how some lane bullies are also allowed to be hyper scalers.
Tbh there arent many hyperscalers that are also lane bullies, and champions like GP aren't even lane bullies anymore, he can't actually kill tanks, and offtanks are capable of 100-0 him from level six onwards.
The hyper scalers that i can think of that r lane bullies are cassi and caitlyn to a certain extent(as of rn). For caitlyn she is literally useless before 3 items(with boots) and wrecks peoples asses after 4/5 items. For cassi, if you did not get a kill u r basically a sp that is in mid but if u get 1 kill, the penta is coming. So my poiny is, the hyperscaling lane bullies have very large weaknesses that could be exploited.
@@emanueleragno5616 you just have to take both runes in armor and doran shield and you wont drop more than 200 hp in those 3 Qs and he will need to use refill pots to get that mana back, seriously, with all the champs that are in the game, GP is a character to complain about?
@@emanueleragno5616 GP is a lane bully indeed if played properly but he doesn't hyper scale. GP builds this season don't really involve many crit items, at least in terms of toplane GP which tends to go bruiser or utility builds. Just pick a counter and enjoy the matchup :)
The rare moments I'm not jungle or mid and I'm in top I play bullies, but I have to say that bullies shouldn't be equal to "you cannot play the game or you'll die", it's an unhealty mindset that riot has embraces for this kind of champions. Lane bully IMO should mean that you have a kit to be hyperaggressive early, but not that it's a free kill if you meet the conditions. It's fine to push somebody on the defensive, it's not fine to prohibit him to play the game if he missetp or he has to burn flash and all of his defensive options.
A lane bully just do early game what poke mages do late game. They hit you until you either leave the lane (recall) or die. If you die to a lane bully, you were out of position and have been punished for it. What you described is just freezing a wave, which is a really important mechanic to know. "You can't play the game..." because if you walk up to break the freeze, I'll take 50-100% of your HP to trade, hence "... or you'll die".
@@louisrobitaille5810 Wave management is important and I know that. The problem is not that they deny the farm (otherwise whats the point) or that they force you out of the comfort zone, it's the fact that riot does not give them a healty way of doing that. They overload their kit both early and late. Darius is Darius, I'm ok with a snowballer after all I play assassins, but having an advantage shouldn't mean that your defenses are useless if you make one small mistake (being out of position is just wrong as you said). I'll explain myself better later, I have something to do now.
@@louisrobitaille5810 So you thin it's completely fine that champions such as gwen and darius can zone 50% of the entire top lane champions out of the wave indefinitely?
I agree. Must lane bullies are too strong and are able to keep their lead in the late game. I personally think that they shouldn't punish you so much for doing things right or at least they should have a weaker late game.
I stopped playing for a couple of months and got against a Jayce who did a fuck ton of damage to me and oneshot me in late game so I stood there wondering what just happened
Not only he can bully you , he scale harder than you. What a time to live. Where lane bully is considered weak earlygame and scale well to mid and late game while darius is a dead ass champ that no one want to play
league has been like this since season 7, they started buffing lane bullies little by little, introducing the new rune system, then gold changes, then turret plating to give such lane bullies more gold, then making rift a strong early game objective to snowball games and open the map befor 20 minutes without actually buffing scaling champs, so, in one side, you have qol changes for lane bullies to spike earlier but scaling champs having very similar power progressions, they even had to buff nasus Q stacks because it was falling behind.
True but then again noone wants to play a 25 minute laningphase game because noone has kill pressure, and then we play 'kill the enemy adc' for the next 10 minutes until the game ends
@@maximilianarlt2633 problem is half the roster is useless because of the 20 min games. If riot adjusted gold income accordingly and made late game happen sooner that problem would be solved
@@Raiko01 i dont think they are useless otherwise their winrates would be worse. Of course you can argue that because there is 5 Champs on each team that equalizes winrates a little but still the difference should be bigger then, i think. Moreover - If you adjusted income to happen faster via buffing minion gold you might even increase that difference because lane bullies can deny you farm early. So they snowball even harder. If you adjusted passive gold income you might make laning way less efficient so you could create a more gank/roam heavy meta. Not sure if this favors late game champs, but it would definitely shake things up.
@@maximilianarlt2633Winrate doesn't always equals to good latency. Look at Jhin, he is fairly a high damage champ that has a good winrate as of rn, but he suffers thanks to Caitlyn because she can zone him out and poke him out under tower, if his supports tries to engage she can just E, AA, Q and oneshot a Rell with only that, leaving him in a position where he can't even cs because of the constant poke damage he receives from her, thus allowing her to take turret plating more quickly, and get far more ahead of him instead of "falling off" in late game. This makes playing Jhin, a champion with a fairly good winrate, a hell, because none of his good damage output and chase potential can be exploited if he can't even play the laning phase without losing 75% pf his HP thanks to a random Caitlyn spamming Q, E and W under tower.
I once got shaco on one for all because one fucking guy picked him. So we get into the game and we all are feeding our asses off because no one wanted to play shaco except that *one* guy. But apparentely, 5 shacos just spamming boxes everywhere and being uncatchable because of flash + invis was _so annoying_ for our opponents *THAT THEY SURRENDERED EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE WINNING* . Winning HARD at that. How fucking annoying can a champ be when it makes the enemy surrender out of sheer annoyance even though they are winning. I actually felt so bad for them LOL
I actually go for hyper carries against lane bullies, because that way I know I'll be able to outscale and I'm confident enough in my ability to not get stomped in lane. In top lane in a Kayle vs Darius you only gotta survive until lvl 6 and then the tables flip completely, and god forbid if the Darius misplays and you land an early kill on him, the game is over. It's high risk high reward but I love it and I've been having good success in gold.
"In a Communist society like League" I don't know man, some champs are humble and hard working, while others start with a hilariously overloaded kit that makes things easy for them without really working for it. When a snowball is in full effect one team is hoarding all the gold, while you're stuck starving.
communism would be tyranny and mass m*rder by those who are st*pid and easily manipulated, who would never have a chance to do anything valuable in any other realm. all are left st*rving but the unworthy. so it’s an apt description.
As Jungler main I LOVE when enemy picks lane bullies, they're always overextended with no real vision. I pick good ganking early game Jungler like Warwick or Shaco and just camp the lane for the first 10 min ruining their early game by killing them 3 times in first 10 min and making them useless for the rest of the game since they have no comeback mechanics.
This is the thing most of the people complaining in the comments forget about! I abuse using champions like darius, sett or renekton, play them so aggresive that most of the time I get firts kill at minute 3 or 4. BUT, I stay in lane to keep farming, which leads to an early gank that takes my advantage away. Most of the time I don't ward, but, that's a bad habit most top laners have when they are winning. Just learn how to play againts them, it isn't super hard.
You guys are talking like neeko kennen Vlad shen don't exist , even if they are overextended ,mostly your laner has low HP and can't go in ,so you end up in a weird 1v1.5 and hope that the enemy fucks up and your laner doesn't
Ah yes,the wait for jglr and do nothing in lane. Still an annoying thing to do as a top laner where the game just coin flips with the chance of not playing 50% or 100% of the time.
4:22 I'd also put Azir in this category if the player actually knows how to play him. His soldiers have many uses, whether it's to bully someone out of lane, help you farm or get you out of trouble with a Shuriman Drift and maybe even turn the situation around if paired with his R, turning his Shuriman Drift into a Shuriman Shuffle. Playing Azir top is one of the most fun ways to play League imo since very few champions including even other lane bullies can actually bully a good Azir out of lane. He doesn't have a way to quickly regen hp or mana, but unless you spam your spells (which you shouldn't really do), you'll never run out of hp or mana. The only champions that have ever bullied me out of lane (gold-plat elo btw) are Olaf, Warwick, and Swain. Olaf and Warwick post-6 counter Azir big time and Swain is just super annoying with his pull that's slightly faster than the time it takes for a sand soldier to form.
To my mind, Kled is the perfect design of a lane bully. He can be insanely strong in the early game, and still quite strong in late, but his ability to teamfight effectively is hampered by his entirely single target damage kit. His job in late is mainly to splitpush to try and bring people to 1v1 or 2v1 him, but a smart team can easily take out more objectives than he can
This is soo true man. If I don't flash Urgot's dash in the early game, he just kills me no matter what champ I play. And then ofc he proceeds to outscale the crap out of me.
You should make a "why no one plays" for Reksai. I personally used to play her a bit and I found out that one of her biggest weaknesses is that she falls behind EXTREMLY fast, I think she falls behind harder than any other champion. Second problem is that her burrowed state can be a bit clunky to navigate in, without vision you need to either put a word down or hit your q to know where precisely your opponent is. That is what I can think of on the fly. Love your videos hope to see more soon.
The day will come when Mordekaiser doesnt press 1 button and yoricks entire kit just disappears and hopefully its somewhere in the next maybe 30 years Edit I know qss exists and mord doesn't counter yorick it's called a joke
A useless item that only exists for his ult, 1300, this is the equivalent for someone who needs a tiamat to clear the wave better, or a lost chapter, or the main item for the rift maker, which is one of the main items for the mordekaiser build, if you don't win the first trades it has a CS lead and a QSS lead because it simply exists, and the QSS is totally unusable if the mordekaiser simply uses the ult on someone else who doesn't have.
lane bullies are the most interactive lanes in the game and people constantly complain simultaneously about lane bullies AND un-interactive lane opponents.
"If you give manaless champions no consequence in their ability usage, that's a no." [Laughing in Akali Shroud] Seriously though, fucking delete Akali's W and you can open her for stats buffs or other tweaks.
I played Garen against Teemo, and won lane really hard becouse he let me set up a freeze and get level 6 first, then didn't respect and got ran down, repeatedly until they abandoned lane, letting me get first tower, and all the plates. At which point... I had to deal with the reality of having an inting jungler/mid, and a 10/0 Kha'Zix on the enemy team... And all everyone wanted to do was flame... So, yeah, while I had a lead, that game did not work out for me.
I think teemo is one of the best designed counter picks in the game. He EXCELS against certain champs in lane and teams, but also gets DESTROYED by certain champs and teams. He forces people too learn that lane swapping mid/top is a legit strat that has to be used occasionally, as you don't want to face teemo as a Darius,Jax, or Kayle. But Pantheon, Kennen, Gangplank, and almost any mage top smacks teemo. He is one of the few champs in the game who can go ANY rune, and play to it's strengths which really forces people to watch his build path and playstyle as most teemos play differently. Recently, I have been having fun going hail of blades with nashors rush on teemo top, and it DESTROYS any champ going for short trades.
What I find the fairest about him is that while he absolutely shits on meelee toplaners in the early game, literally getting engaged by them 1 time results in death. If Darius lands one grab on you, there goes your flash. If a Garen lands one q on you, you lose that trade and maybe even die if you get in ult range. I actually really like this because while Teemo makes the lane borderline unplayable for meelee champs, they atleast get _something to do_ instead of praying that laning phase is over quickly. And the reward makes looking for that one opportunity worth it
@@Takin2000 As a long time Teemo main, I'm loving both of you right now. There's also the fact that Teemo, while versatile and amazing at slow defense, and able to play proactively, has trouble playing aggressively at all. Proactive - moving around and strategizing on how to be useful - is different from aggressive - actually being a kill threat who runs at the enemy and hopefully doesn't die unless it gives a greater advantage than his death gave them. And this leads to a lot of tense games if Teemo gets even a little behind. The further behind he gets, the more he has to work his brain, because he's a squishy champion built for ambush, zone control, mobility, and dps, which is a lot of tools, but all ones that come at expenses, such as survivability or immediate solo game turning potential that isn't planned in advance.
@@NeonBlue27 I agree. I mean, Teemo is really oppressive against melee champions in the early game, lets not underestimate that. He completely dominates the first levels. But hes squishy af, doesnt have hard cc (ever had a Darius or Garen running next to you and simply waiting out your blind to obliterate you 2 seconds later? :D), doesnt have a dash and deals no dmg against tanks with spectral cowl + dorans shield. Hes one of the few champions with clear weaknesses. I think his bad reputation comes from the aforementioned oppressive early game against melees and his blind which, admittedly, can be bullshit at times lol
The function of showing when enemies and teammates finish building items and all that is pretty neat, but every program that shows you the rank of teammates and enemies and how "Good" or "Bad" they are is absolute bs, almost every time I vs against people with stuff like Low KP, Pacifist, etc etc they play like challenger smurfs and when I vs against people with stuff like unkillable, high damage, "Smurf?" etc they run it down the second the minions spawn in. It's actually ridiculous how so many players can use that crap without any doubts and how so many channels actually advertise it..
Most lane bully’s have an obvious weakness you can exploit so they aren’t too bad even if you personally feel useless. New champs have weaknesses but then something to make up for those weaknesses, which is why they are hated
most lane bullies are just knowledge check champions, they are entirely reliant on the enemy not knowing how to play the matchup, like fighting a lvl 1 sett or darius, or trying to farm against ranged champions instead of just letting them push and missing some cs until you get lvl 3, most lane bullies don't scale well. A lot of the time the person playing the lane bully loses patience against players that know how to not fight and they beat themselves, once I played against a trundle as yone and literally never fought him just farmed under turret, eventually he lost patience and started taking bad trades and taking turret shots, he ended up like 1/10 by the end of laning phase because once you get ahead of them they literally have 0 going for them in lane
One of the few champs I've been able to find success against lane bullies is Malphite and Aatrox. For Malphite I run Grasp of the Undying and try to proc as many times as possible even in losing trades but I also run Sorcery as the secondary runes with Absolute Focus sometimes switching between Manaflow Band and Scorch depending on what champ I'm against but Absolute Focus is the key. Once I've got my W to Rank 4 and 5 and if I got a decent amount of Grasp procs I'll be able to withstand most lane bullies damage and deal a lot of damage back to them because getting Malphite below 70% health is difficult when he runs the moment his shield breaks. If the enemy chases me when I disengage they're running into my Casters line of fire and I turn around on them. If they're ranged champs like Quinn or Kennen then I'll just blow my ult every time it's up regardless if I can kill them or not because I will be able to land enough damage onto them where they'll have to reset or die to Q pokes because they will have to blow their escape abilities as soon as they're free from the knockup. While they're back at base I shove the wave in reset and walk back and repeat when the ult is back up. Since the shield and high armor helps ignore poke bullying I can get a decent amount of farm without getting pushed out of lane. Malphite has been my go to champ against most of these lane bullies and it's been effective if a bit boring now. As for Aatrox is just a sustain game and getting a lucky Q hit. Fleet Footwork with Resolve Runes Second Wind and Revitalize for as much extra healing as possible and farm carefully until they walk into enough Q's for me to all in them. Mundo is a good anti bully champ too. Immune to CC all ins and can safely farm with Q unless enemy stands in the way but then that's just free poke damage until you can walk up confidently.
As a mid lane main, I honestly think the most frustrating thing for myself dealing with lane bullies, specifically the anti-carry types like Malzahar and Heim, it often times feels like you have no choice but sit and wait for them to make a mistake, be that overextending without vision, draining too much mana, overstaying, or not respecting all in potential. And the higher you climb in elo, the less likely those mistakes are too happen, so you often find yourself stuck playing a waiting game for 20 minutes
I had a love hate relationship with Pantheon support. He was absolutely a lane bully, but I would end laning phase 7/0 and I'd be nigh USELESS in the mid-late game. I'd end up having to build Umbral Glaive and focus on vision. The first 15 minutes of the game were fun as hell though. Never a dull moment.
Personally i consider a lot of champs lane bullies which arent mentioned just because of their immense pressure for instance - Camille, Irelia, Syndra, Yasuo definitely and a lot more....
The thought process towards the end of the game confuses me. Kha'zix was never meant to be an early game powerhouse. There are many matchups he can bully, but his ganks are pretty bad and he's far from a top tier early duelist. Most of the "lane bullies" who are in the meta are exactly the kind of champion that's too safe to punish who's scaling is hard to contest (such as Tristana). The most aggressive of champions (such as Lee Sin and Elise) don't play as aggressively anymore (5 camp into crab is the optimal first clear rather than level 3 rush into gank) while Riot continuously chips away at the player's ability to play for the early game and get a quick victory. You can't stack starter itens (double D-Ring, double D-blade, dark seal/corrupting pot) anymore, lane sustain is completely out of hand (poke playstyles are less and less common across all lanes), riot is openly and actively nerfing mid lane roaming, boots of mobility is an actual dead item and those are but a few of recent changes limiting the player's ability to punish scaling playstyles. The most recent jungle changes gave the game a small nudge in the right direction, but haven't changed a whole lot in practice. Lee Sin may be a strong pick, but even Lee Sin is doing 5 camp into crab because conqueror and goredrinker allows him to stay relevant when he is supposed to be weak, not because his main powerspike is valuable. You rarely see level 3 rush into gank, invading the enemy jungle for a kill rather than just stealing some camps when you see the enemy on the opposite side of the map. You describe the game as if we were in season 9 but clearly that is not the case anymore. I don't remember "play safe and farm" to be that dominant since the ardent censer meta.
I am a malzahar main since before his rework. I started playing him mid but after the rework, I started playing him top with the thought process of split pushing. I won most games with malzahar top but not because of split pushing as I had thought. I won them through pure lane destruction. I got close to the wave just to empty my spells on it and soon enough the enemy was at their tower. They couldn't freeze they couldn't breathe and they couldn't get close. Out of all the games I played, I lost lane only in a few hard counters such as Irelia. My point is as long as I stayed mid, the only ones I destroyed were assassins but as soon as I moved top I trashed everyone. Lane bullies can be everywhere but top lane suffers the most and I am not sure if it is a top meta-problem or a champion design problem as I have seen top lane suffer from intruders too many times, for example any mage that goes top or many adcs.
i somewhat remember that half a decade ago, at least most of these lane bullies still had to deal with mana, or they had to sacrifice HP in order to shove everything hard in your face, trade offs that gave you moments to breathe, but perhaps since the games are now half as long as they used to be, and damage & all game scaling keeps getting cranked up, it can feel like you cant do anything against many bullies if your champion just isnt equipped to handle them. Its almost as if "counter play" is no longer a thought in Riots game design. Just FF15 and go next!
I feel like kennen is a well designed lane bully, cuz he doesn’t have the damage early to actually kill you, but just enough to bully you off farm, and you can easily kill him if he uses his E improperly. This balances out his great team fight ultimate
I would believe that if his E actually had a high cooldown. Sometimes que uses it and you go trade with him, then you get stunned and 2 secs later he uses his E again. All without running out of energy
@@marcoantoniomaccarinicaste5855 As someone who likes to play Kennen top, it actually is on a super long cooldown in the early game, it's just that mastering Kennen is all about deceiving an opponent who doesn't understand your champion into thinking that it's always up.
@@somethingrandom5503 Ah yes, 10 seconds is such a long cooldown I just can't believe it. Let's compare the cd of this mobility ability with other champs mobility/engage. Darius' E - 22 seconds. Trundle's E- 24 seconds. Ornn E - 16 seconds. Camille E - 15 seconds. Riven Q - 12 seconds (the champ is broken nvm), Maokai W - 13 seconds. Pantheon W - 12 seconds. Such a high cooldown mobility ability kennen E is. Don't be delusional. ty
@Ishan Kumar Do note, though, that every champion you listed is significantly beefier than Kennen. If Kennen's caught out in a bad spot for even a few seconds, that could be his death, while Trundle, Darius, Ornn, Maokai, and Pantheon only really use their movement abilities to get in close. Camille is the one exception, and even there, her movement abilities is significantly more versatile and useful than Kennen's, and she still can take much more punishment than Kennen can if she's in a bad spot.
As a Swain main I think he definitely counts as a lane bully. High burst damage at close range combined with a long range pull and a zoning ability makes it easy to bully your opponents. If they engage you burst them and run, if they try to play it safe you can abuse them to get free health and healing. Even if you get down early you shine most in teamdights so you can recover your losses if you play well.
I'm so pumped for this one! I love playing Lane Bullies. I get so much joy from repeatedly crushing the hopes and dreams of others. I make it a goal to make my laner afk in 5 minutes or less and this is why I play Darius. Thank You and I hope you enjoyed my Ted Talk.
@@hilkmeister1382 yeah I kinda agree with you but I don't think playing unfun champions is Toxic. Personally I have no fun when champs rush Bramble Vest and Plated Steelcaps against me or pick Tahm Kench top but at the end of the day these are just things we need to learn how to deal with. So long as we arent toxic in the all chat I think playing tilting playstyles is fine albeit a bit cheesy.
@@bonkwave1604 I mean...usually the people who pick lane bullies in low ELO get stomped on by any one with competent macro, so ye, it's relatively fine.
The issue starts when champions that hardstomp lanes are allowed to also be hypercarries late. Tristana for example. She is one of the best and safest earlygame adc-s currently, pair her with a Leona and you can basically consider the laning phase won with 2-3 kills unless you misplay it. Then after 2 items the old signature lategame Tristana happens, with resetting jumps and still being super safe with huge range and selfpeel. That just shouldn't happen. A vayne is still kind of like a cannon minion with a superiority complex and a crossbow in the earlygame but becomes a monster lategame. As much as I hate her, I have an opening until her 3rd item to make her hate life. Against tristana, I don't. Nigh impossible to gank or dive her due to her huge jump, extreme burst damage with HoB, and self-peel+i just threw a mountain at you damage ultimate. Xin has a similar issue. His ult makes him a ridiculous teamfighter while his earlygame is literally 'don't miss w and you win', while goredrinker steraks makes him incredibly hard to kill, while still dealing pseudo-assassin damage. These are the problems.
Tristana is pretty strong but literally all you have to do to counter her is stun her. I get it, it sucks that there's an adc in the game who is able to actually do something about an assassin jumping on them, killing them far too fast for the adc to react and mastery emoting/saying something toxic in allchat then getting instakilled because assassin players don't usually have a brain beyond "kill duh adc and gloat that my champ is built to do that and it wasn't based on my skill!!!!" But she's not nearly as op as so many people (who probably mainly play assassins in which case stay mad lmao) who don't play her make her out to be. I honestly find Caitlyn to be a far worse, actual lane-bully-who-is-also-a-hypercarry as someone who actually plays both of those champs quite frequently (Trist is my highest mastery champ (and yes she has an assassin-like playstyle, which is exactly why I'm confused when people say she's busted OP, since anything that works vs assassins works on her just as well unlike certain assassins that literally just go untargetable and you can't do anything to them until their combo is over! :] ), but I also play Cait, Ashe and Miss Fortune frequently and they are much more reliable and consistently strong.) With Trist you often have to use your escape tool to jump in and take an actual risk to get kills before you can use its reset to jump back out while Caitlyn just stands back and puts down traps and then 2-shots people as her support sits with her and peels if someone tries to come close. If Tristana is running in and constantly jump resetting and killing your whole team then your team is probably not focusing her down with hard CC and blowing her up the second she jumps in and makes herself vulnerable, completely removing her from the team fight... and if you were all low, sorry. She excels at cleanup. That's her thing. You can't be frustrated that she's good at what she's made to be good at. Even then, if you're low and you cc + burst her she doesn't get to clean up, she can't exactly prevent you from targeting her. I honestly think most of the people who hate Trist are just buttmad because they aren't allowed to all in and kill her solo since she can ult them away then jump to further the distance. I mean, we have champs like Yuumi who is an enchanter who goes untargetable but people are still shitting their pants over an adc with some self peel. Or people playing Panth support with a point and click dash-stun that lets you cheese from level 1 in lane. Or Zed who has like 2 flashes in his kit and 1 million damage that takes a lot less skill to pull off than Zed mains claim (though he's still a high skill champ, his main combo is not hard at all but the majority of zed mains are manchildren who just want to flame and be toxic to everybody so i get it, they have to say that they're gods). Or Zac who jumps out of the jungle into the middle of the lane and does a shit ton of burst with a single ap item while also constantly CCing you so the enemy support and adc can walk up and kill you. Or... You know. Any of the other strong champs. Trist isn't even the best adc in the game, nor is she the most oppressive. Jhin, Caitlyn, Ashe (who has a built in slow), Kog'Maw, MF... Yeah Trist is by no means BAD. She's definitely GOOD. But have you ever played into Jhin and gotten killed in about 3 seconds level 1 when his support lands a single stun on you and he just 3rd shot, w, 4th shots you and does about 800 damage? I really do think it's less about her being god tier (which she isn't) and more about her just not being completely unable to stop an assassin which other adcs have to out-burst to beat. Varus has a stun and can blow you up in seconds but i never see anybody complaining about him, probably because he doesn't have a jump amirite? Like fr if you want to beat tristana assuming you're not far, FAR worse than the person playing her, CC goes a huge way. Draven, Twitch and Kog'Maw also tend to beat her in lane really hard because of their high damage. Especially Draven whose damage isn't tied to a high cooldown ability in the early game like Trist's E. Caitlyn also does really well because headshot does like, 500 damage and Tristana is not tanky. Xin is mostly annoying for ranged champs because of his ult, so of course a lot of adc players/ ranged players hate him, but he's also just in-meta cause he's a ganker, which means you have to anticipate he's going to gank and as a jungler, countergank or as a non-jungler, play around the assumption that he's GOING to gank you and ward as well as don't shove lane hard while the enemy is there and make it as hard/unappealing for him to gank your lane as possible. If that means not overextending to get a kill, then you have to do that and let the enemy leave and just keep getting CS. Since I don't play matchups where I fight him as much, nor do I play him, i can't offer as much advice but really it's just don't let him get an easy gank off on you and once again CC really fucks him up. I guess also if you're ranged then wait out his ult while the melee champs engage him. If he's destroying your team, it sucks but league is a team game. If your team is worse and you can't solo carry, that's just how it's going to be for that match. Just make sure that you analyse any mistakes YOU made so that you can possibly avoid letting him get that fed next time you fight him. Like trist, i highly doubt there's ever a situation in which nothing you did prevented you from dying. There are a lot of tools in the game and if your team has no cc, that's a mistake. And if you aren't warding anywhere and getting jumped on, that's also a mistake. And if you go to ward alone and get jumped on... that's yet another mistake. If your team genuinely sucks, it's rough but you still need to mitigate your own faults so that you're never part of the team that sucks for someone else.
I think a lot of the league player base hates lane bullies because laning phase is is what a lot of players enjoy about league, and it feels like you just don't get one against these champions. You just have to play safe and wait for jg a lot of the time which no one likes. It also feels like lane bully champs get to have their "fun" in the game at your expense and you barely interacted. Like a Renekton got to have fun pushing your shit in all early game and then maybe his pressure contributes to a loss where you barely got to do anything and your team just surrendered. It is one of the worst experiences in league where you felt like not only did you waste your time, but you almost did worse than that since you lost LP as well.
Can you make a video on the fact that LoL has a very small amount of customization, when compared to games like HotS or Dota 2? Seriously, the difference is insane. From cursors, announcers, spell UIs, even maps and weather effects. There is so much money to be made from that. Plus, imagine a Samuel L. Jackson announcer like in HoN
I play Darius and Lillia top and they're both quite the lane bullies on most matchups, but having played both as and against Lillia and Darius I'd say Lillia is pretty fair (except against Nasus and Ornn, they should've banned her) since she can be bullied level 1, has a strong level 3 to 9, weak-ish midgame after one item (so the enemy leaner can realistically catch back up) and doesn't come online as a monster until third item or so. Darius on the other hand is devastating early and his 1v1 never falls off, and he also has a solid teamfight win con on his 5 stack. If steraks didn't exist he'd probably be actually weak in the mid to late game and would be relegated to splitpushing but with that item as it exists today and his easy access to ghost I find him to be just broken against any champions with less than 535 range.
12:15 It's clips like these that make me not pay much attention to the speaker and just look at the fight lmao. Panth literally just ulted in and got clapped in half a second but his team won that fight!?
Well, they all wasted way more abilities than required to kill him, so they had cooldowns to wait for while panths team started to fuck em over. It was actually a very calculated play
To be honest. There is nothing unfair in being lane bully. But what about modern abominations like Irelia, Fiora, Camille, Gwen, Yone, Viego, Sylas or Kai'sa. Which are early game but also late game, safe but also agressive.
I like playing Vlad into a GP because we both scale about as well and we're both able to back off if we want to so either we sit there going ham in a pokefest or we both agree in allchat to just lasthit minions for the first 5-10 minutes because we know nothing's going to actually happen
Can you make a video on CC? (crowd control) like you have on other mechanics such as healing? I think it would be really interesting to disguss why it might be the most hated mechanic in the game
People don't hate CC itself, they hate obscene CC scenarios like being rooted/stunned for 4+ seconds by Leona or Morgana. High mobility makes this feel even worse for example half of Akali's kit stops working if she's grounded or rooted, may as well be silenced at that point. But engage is very nice, peel is very nice, set up is very nice so CC is very nice...as long as it is to my benefit
@@Hellothere-ss4jq not necessarily…CC as a concept can be really annoying, it’s core concept is that it literally stops you from playing the game for a bit. It’s just a disruption and in my opinion stopping stopping someone from having fun like that is a toxic concept
for support mains with bad ADC like me🤐 all enemies are lane bullies. even my Vaynes and Cog'mas give up before we reach mid game and they are THE late game!!!!!!!! **SAD SUPPORT NOISES** thanks for quality content. keep up the good work. wish you well
I lost lane with that matchup once,but only because this worm was babysitted by mid and jgl,he was like 0\3\3 at the end of laning phase.They were even mocking me,so much fun and honor to win 3v1 yeah
Pantheon support has seemed to become A Thing and I've given them the middle finger by picking Teemo support. Oh you wanted to point-and-click stun my adc? How bout your adc goes blind so they can't do shit about it?
I recently started picking up kayle and mispositioning or misplaying an opponent's trade can cause you to die and fuck up your scaling. I wouldn't mind late game champs having safe earlier if there are still mechanics and macro factors involved in wether they're safe.
What is the background music for this episode? It might be a good idea to put it in the description 🤔 (or maybe I'm blind) Anyway, great stuff as always !
I mainly play Tanks and odd picks on top lane, so I'm used to get beaten in 70% of my games in lane, but when I see a Draven enemy bot, I truly know that the game will be bad, for the draven will 1shot everyone and 2shots me.
The thing about lanebullies or earlygame dominating champions is that they dont fall off like they used to, games are shorter and their items are better, look at steraks, goredrinker, divine sunderer etc etc. There is barely any room to scale and beat them.
I always wondered why on earth I was so bad at toplane until a few months back I moved from an Aphelios main to a top main (Camille/Fiora/Gwen). And I learned the hard way how the toplane forces you to have good fundamentals. It's crazy how I went from hating 75% of the matchups to not being scared no matter what the enemy top picks (except warwick and Jax, fuck those). When you properly learn your champions (strengths, weaknesses, matchups, trading patterns, enemy important cds...) and wave management you just accept every matchup as it is and have a gameplan no matter what your enemy faces you with. Camille vs Sett is a great example, I was SOO scared of Sett and really thought he was busted, but slowly I learned every aspect of the matchup and now it is one of my favourite : Respect him and grab every cs you can without putting your life in danger, only go for trades you are 100% sure will be atleast even because if you are both at 30% hp Camille has a better all-in and you will win, he really only excels at long trades. Repeat that until you have your mythic and from this point it is impossible for him to win a 1v1. Even if you can't kill him before mythic, if you didnt feed him it is basically a free lane, but respecting the opponent strengths and being patient is something a lot of people lack (including me before this toplane focus)
Hey Vars, thanks a lot for the video! One thing I wanna say is that you saying pantheon falls off is a little outdated now. The best pantheon EUW challenger (spearshot) says that pantheon actually scales extremely well now. He’s not a 1v5 hyper carry monster, but he is definitely useful when he gets his eclipse and cleaver because he can armour shred the entire team with his Q/E. He can also very easily make picks and plays with his R and his damage is enough to kill anyone squishy with one rotation. Pantheon is almost always useful late game unless he’s extremely behind or the enemy team comp is specifically bad for him. If you don’t believe me then you can ask spearshot himself as he again is the best pantheon EUW
Oh believe me. I made a summonerschool post about how people need to be more careful about his E damage lategame because that thing hits like a tank LOL
I once played Nasus first pick top, in draft because I’m a bronze beta male. In hindsight I shouldn’t have picked Nasus in first pick because the enemy laner picked Fiora. I have to say that the first 15 minutes of that game were the most PAINFUL 15 minutes of my life to the point where I genuinely considered leaving the game, she was a 600k mastery Fiora OTP top lane that was bronze 3. I literally could not farm as she froze lane and any time I tried to engage I would get poked, poked and then slammed with 800 true damage. I was stuck at under 60 stacks for a long ass time, it didn’t help the fact their Talon was babysitting her too so I got no farm. After leaving lane I was 0/3/1 with 118 stacks and she was 3/1/3 and had 2 levels. We ended up losing that game but I ended with a proud 7/4/9 to her 6/6/3. I genuinely cannot express how much pain I had to go through just to end up losing when I was 2v1’ing her and talon.
I noticed that at 13:56 you put a picture of wukong between the 200 years champions like yasuo, yone and gwen, yet you don't have any video on him, so it seemed very strange to me, since I don't think he's widely considered a super op champion, I used to main him back in the day and stop playing him when they took out brutalizer and the old sunfirecape and trinity force, because it felt too weak (but to be honest that was years ago and I might just be outdated).
I think Jayce is a mix between late and early game bully because he's scaling is really good too and can tf with his ranged form having leth and arm pen and a lot of cdr by his items, it's a really solid champ
11:40 your take on pantheon is very wrong He is insanely strong until 2nd item and they he falls off so hard you need to avoid almost every fight no matter how ahead are you But after 4th or 5th item(depends on the build) he gains a huge power spike either 1 shooting people (lethality build) or having a insane mix of CC(ability haste and you W) sustain ( sundred sky hp%healing and clipse shield ever 2 seconds) and great team damage on his Q
Great Video!, I think there is an intresting topic you could talk about You already talked about how not being able to hit an enemy works, with Untargetabily How not being able to see an enemy works, with Stealth And also how Healing works I think there is another mechanic that a lot of players hate Lockdown Champios that have kits focused on this, like Leona or Maokai Subclasses that make grat use of it, like Catchers, Divers, and Vanguards What happens when a champion like Pantheon o Rengar lock you in place while they deal their damage Burst mages erasing you from existance because they landed their root Champions with no CC at all, that have problems chasing an enemy I think that, when it comes to a mechanic that a lot of players complain during games, Lockdown, or CC, is one of the most mentioned And then we have Damage Over Time, another intresting topic
my take on lane bullies: they require teamwork. a (somewhat) reliable way to shut down lane bullies is to ask for help for your jungler and 2v1 them (preferably by baiting out their escape option shortly beforehand) however, solo q is infamous for a lack of teamwork thus being the reason why lane bullies are so powerful they can go scot free with their bullying if the jungler doesn't choose to gank and punish them this was the exact same situation with the TANK META where teams needed teamwork and to all focus one tank to win, but no one wanted to do that thus, resulting in a meta heavily populated with tanks
I know he's one of the poster children for it and it may just be players in my elo are trash (myself included) but I actually can't remember the last time I saw a renekton actually win a game. I feel like the champion is just a worse version of irelia or just "why don't I play darius or sett instead?" Since not only is renek still nerfed every patch but what set him apart was his quick in and out trade patterns. But with mobility crept up so much and his damage just feeling so low in comparison to everyone else. I just feel like the mad croc has lost his rock yaknow?
He is really ultimate dependent in this super high dmg meta and needs black cleaver every game to do dmg since tabi-bramble is running rampant. What he really needs is some sort of reliable armor pen that doesn't need 50 fury on his lowest dmg ability. His sustain is alright even after the double nerfs. His ultimate hp nerf hurt but it wasn't that bad. It's just that after the enemy gets a small amount of armor, the champ just stops doing any dmg since all his dmg is locked into his long cd abilities.
I'm a mid main, I only play mages, and a week ago I played against a Draven mid as Asol, I couldn't get any chance of doing anything in the game, I didn't even die in lane but couldn't do anything anyway after it game was ended at 20mins because Draven kept picking up kills here and there. If you have a soul don't play Draven mid
What really annoys is that when lane-bullies get a lead, they never seem to slow down or fall off once in late game. This kind of design where some champions are good at all stages with no signs of drawbacks screams design-problem. Sure, it is very important to know what you should do when earning a lead. But they shouldn’t have as much freedom of doing whatever they want and can go recklessly as they please, without any consequences at all. That’s bad design.
I think a lot of lane bullies are balanced the same as duelists in that they draw high pressure by being able to 1v1 many champions thus forcing 2 people to deal with them, the difference being that lane bullies often crumble agajnst a numbers advantage because alot of them are pretty single target focused (teemo renekton tahm darius to an extent gankplank when his barrels are messed with) and heimerdinger while having area damage does crumble as well against a numbers advantage
I play lane bullies too but holy f are they annoying to go against they fall off after lane and it just feels like the only reason the enemy picks them is to piss you off and ruin your game not to actually win.
Hey man, first of all, I absolutely love the content you’ve been putting out, keep up the great work! Secondly, have you ever considered starting a podcast or something where you discuss items, meta, champions etc.?
I feel the problem is the speed of the game I main phanteon and I think he is to strong not because he es op in the early game but because most games are win or lose in the first 15 min i remember when phant used to become useless after 25/30 min but now that almost never happens unless I play against another lane bully
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Hey I think you should make smadh videos like why no one plays robin or corrine, why everyone plays cloud, sword chaeacters: the characters that are all the same or heavies: the advantage monsters. Idk I just know you like smash and its a nice break from league
@@TheRealGeorgeCostanza Actually I was thinking about making a WNOP series for smash bros XD
@@VarsVerum I love smash and your videos WNOP would be so good and also the archetypes would be quite cool and funny. I have a smash related question though, do you have any characters you hate like yone in smash.
@@TheRealGeorgeCostanza Zoners. I hate zoners... so much... I also hate sonic and all the other really janky ass characters...
0:05 I mean im not toxic or anything but I wish Yummi players took a bath in battery acid.
You can skip laning phase by playing RIVER SHEN
Xpetu's alt account I see you bro
TRUE
I always play river shen
@@myfgaf which the best shen pulled off against grandmasters so is it really easily countered
Or Bard and go after meeps
I just had a game vs an actually competent vayne top player as singed, and it was the least fun I've ever had in my 3 years of playing league, level 2 we traded kills, but since she took tp she just froze the wave near her tower for over 8 minutes, if I tried to break it i lost half of my hp in 3 autos, if I tried proxying i got killed because of the enemy jg and mid babysitting her 24 7, and her buying shieldbow just made it way worse, it was the most traumatizing thing I've had tp deal with, even with ult and ghost i couldn't catch up to her before getting kited to death and even with grievous wounds she still healed a lot of her hp back, I'm still with ptsd of suffering that crap
Fuck vayne top
I won clash for the first time with my mates playing Singed today :D
Against Vayne as Singed you can really only Proxy farm. Try and keep track of her so you can ghost away in time. Take Ghost Teleport and rush Armor Boots. Not much else you can do against her unfortunately. Thats most matchups for singed though and once you get the hang of it he is VERRRRRY rewarding. One of my all time favorites to play right next to Twitch and Darius.
@@bonkwave1604 yeah i tried doing that and had ghost but all the time i got ganked and killed whether I had ghost or not, the jungler was just waiting topside the whole gane so i either risked it and most likely died or got like 10 cs every 5 minutes
@@alejandropetit6573 Ok so in this scenario you need to be warding more. But control wards and between waves keep up vision. If you see the Jungler enter your side of the map you yeet yourself outta there. This wastes their time (They dont know where you are since you were just there a wave ago) and its likely Vayne will also go looking. This buys time for your team botside AND gives you time to reset and get to lane and these tiny reset advantages will turn into a real advantage. Takes a bit of practice and a lot of map awareness but a good singed can Carry a game with no Kills or Assists sometimes. Just keep practicing and youll get there
if im your jungler, i'd camp that vayne all game
Pour one out for the Pantheon at 12:19 who absolutely YEETED himself into the other team to stop the baron take and promptly got blasted into the shadow realm. Rest in Peace brave soldier, your sacrifice was not in vain
"I am no more than a soldier, and no less"
what a chad
Don't forget the a sol with the three-man stun who also died.
I wonder why he didn't pop his e. Man could've lived for a few seconds longer.
average pantheon player
How to counter lane bullies: Don’t be in lane.
Modern problems require modern solution.
Another counter: Also play a lane bully.
200 IQ
🤯🤯🤯 How did I never consider that?
Shen go BRRRRRR
"There will never be a situation in which you can skip the laning phase"
5 months later: Smite Janna Top
I did NOT expect you here, you need to tell league lore the way you teach history
My reasoning for playing lane bullies is simple. There will always be a laning phase, there isn’t always a late game.
Indeed
Indeed
Indeed
How did you watch the video already
@@VarsVerum lel we just avarage players who watching your videos and get so many ingame experience
“In a communist society like League of Legends-“
listen, man - whatever you were smoking, keep smoking it. this episode was great.
I dunno man, everyone starts with 500 gold, all camps have same timers, both sides have same minion wave speeds, frequencies, quantities. Everyone gets the same rune setups, *I dunno man...*
@@VarsVerum Wrong, the team that plays against yasuo starts with a 2k gold advantage each.
Give me some of that what he`s smoking too :D
@@VarsVerum now that you mention it, everyone in a footrace begins at the starting line. sports are also communism?!?!?!
СООООООООЮЗ НЕРУШИМЫЙ РЕСПУУУУУУБЛИК СВОБОДНЫЫХ
Lmaooo “Darius isn’t a 1v9 hyper carry, you just need to respect him when he’s right on top of you” as a literal Darius 1v9 hyper carry clip is playing on screen
Being fair, Darius does lose out speedwise.
@@boxtank5288 and if you try to mend that with the sorcery rune for spweed you lose out in your damage capabilities
@@catrielmarignaclionti4518 Yup. The only speed you OUGHT to worry about is attack speed. Least as Darius because the sooner you proc Noxian Might, the better.
@@boxtank5288 Which is why most Darius players run Ghost. I've even stopped running Flash so I can keep the TP pressure. If I need to escape then I'll just Ghost away. It's got a shorter cd than flash and the only downside is I can't get over walls when enemy players flash behind them.
@@leoncoben6983 yup.
My problem is not with champions being lane bullies, as i know it's an integral part for their gameplay gimmick to work. What grinds my gears sometimes is how some lane bullies are also allowed to be hyper scalers.
Tbh there arent many hyperscalers that are also lane bullies, and champions like GP aren't even lane bullies anymore, he can't actually kill tanks, and offtanks are capable of 100-0 him from level six onwards.
The hyper scalers that i can think of that r lane bullies are cassi and caitlyn to a certain extent(as of rn). For caitlyn she is literally useless before 3 items(with boots) and wrecks peoples asses after 4/5 items. For cassi, if you did not get a kill u r basically a sp that is in mid but if u get 1 kill, the penta is coming. So my poiny is, the hyperscaling lane bullies have very large weaknesses that could be exploited.
@@davidrosales1594 gp so bad as a lane bully he only takes half your health with 3 qs smh my smh smh smh head
@@emanueleragno5616 you just have to take both runes in armor and doran shield and you wont drop more than 200 hp in those 3 Qs and he will need to use refill pots to get that mana back, seriously, with all the champs that are in the game, GP is a character to complain about?
@@emanueleragno5616 GP is a lane bully indeed if played properly but he doesn't hyper scale. GP builds this season don't really involve many crit items, at least in terms of toplane GP which tends to go bruiser or utility builds. Just pick a counter and enjoy the matchup :)
I played alot of Aphelios back in the day and he is a pretty good lane bully too
Mostly towards himself
From future your statement is now false
The rare moments I'm not jungle or mid and I'm in top I play bullies, but I have to say that bullies shouldn't be equal to "you cannot play the game or you'll die", it's an unhealty mindset that riot has embraces for this kind of champions. Lane bully IMO should mean that you have a kit to be hyperaggressive early, but not that it's a free kill if you meet the conditions. It's fine to push somebody on the defensive, it's not fine to prohibit him to play the game if he missetp or he has to burn flash and all of his defensive options.
A lane bully just do early game what poke mages do late game. They hit you until you either leave the lane (recall) or die. If you die to a lane bully, you were out of position and have been punished for it. What you described is just freezing a wave, which is a really important mechanic to know. "You can't play the game..." because if you walk up to break the freeze, I'll take 50-100% of your HP to trade, hence "... or you'll die".
@@louisrobitaille5810 Wave management is important and I know that. The problem is not that they deny the farm (otherwise whats the point) or that they force you out of the comfort zone, it's the fact that riot does not give them a healty way of doing that. They overload their kit both early and late. Darius is Darius, I'm ok with a snowballer after all I play assassins, but having an advantage shouldn't mean that your defenses are useless if you make one small mistake (being out of position is just wrong as you said). I'll explain myself better later, I have something to do now.
@@louisrobitaille5810 So you thin it's completely fine that champions such as gwen and darius can zone 50% of the entire top lane champions out of the wave indefinitely?
I agree. Must lane bullies are too strong and are able to keep their lead in the late game. I personally think that they shouldn't punish you so much for doing things right or at least they should have a weaker late game.
@@francescobattistoni20 Neither can do that. If you struggle against them, that's a you problem >_
These days Jayce is the literal opposite of what he used to be. He’s not a lane bully anymore, and now he scales pretty well
He matured :D
I stopped playing for a couple of months and got against a Jayce who did a fuck ton of damage to me and oneshot me in late game so I stood there wondering what just happened
Mythic items giving Jayce lethality/armor pen for each item just makes him better with 5 items.
Not only he can bully you , he scale harder than you. What a time to live. Where lane bully is considered weak earlygame and scale well to mid and late game while darius is a dead ass champ that no one want to play
@@nghiatrantrung834 the irony in this comment
The terminology Vars uses really shows his knowledge about fighting games
When he said "summoner's rift is engineered" I was like 🤯🤯🤯
league has been like this since season 7, they started buffing lane bullies little by little, introducing the new rune system, then gold changes, then turret plating to give such lane bullies more gold, then making rift a strong early game objective to snowball games and open the map befor 20 minutes without actually buffing scaling champs, so, in one side, you have qol changes for lane bullies to spike earlier but scaling champs having very similar power progressions, they even had to buff nasus Q stacks because it was falling behind.
True but then again noone wants to play a 25 minute laningphase game because noone has kill pressure, and then we play 'kill the enemy adc' for the next 10 minutes until the game ends
@@maximilianarlt2633 problem is half the roster is useless because of the 20 min games. If riot adjusted gold income accordingly and made late game happen sooner that problem would be solved
@@Raiko01 i dont think they are useless otherwise their winrates would be worse. Of course you can argue that because there is 5 Champs on each team that equalizes winrates a little but still the difference should be bigger then, i think.
Moreover - If you adjusted income to happen faster via buffing minion gold you might even increase that difference because lane bullies can deny you farm early. So they snowball even harder. If you adjusted passive gold income you might make laning way less efficient so you could create a more gank/roam heavy meta. Not sure if this favors late game champs, but it would definitely shake things up.
@@maximilianarlt2633Winrate doesn't always equals to good latency.
Look at Jhin, he is fairly a high damage champ that has a good winrate as of rn, but he suffers thanks to Caitlyn because she can zone him out and poke him out under tower, if his supports tries to engage she can just E, AA, Q and oneshot a Rell with only that, leaving him in a position where he can't even cs because of the constant poke damage he receives from her, thus allowing her to take turret plating more quickly, and get far more ahead of him instead of "falling off" in late game.
This makes playing Jhin, a champion with a fairly good winrate, a hell, because none of his good damage output and chase potential can be exploited if he can't even play the laning phase without losing 75% pf his HP thanks to a random Caitlyn spamming Q, E and W under tower.
shaco in any role makes me want to ff 15
Especially as sp against a hook champion
ff 4
I once got shaco on one for all because one fucking guy picked him. So we get into the game and we all are feeding our asses off because no one wanted to play shaco except that *one* guy. But apparentely, 5 shacos just spamming boxes everywhere and being uncatchable because of flash + invis was _so annoying_ for our opponents *THAT THEY SURRENDERED EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE WINNING* . Winning HARD at that. How fucking annoying can a champ be when it makes the enemy surrender out of sheer annoyance even though they are winning. I actually felt so bad for them LOL
That's why Shaco is on my permaban right now in any role I'm playing. He needs a nerf.
@@leoncoben6983 He doesn't need a nerf
I actually go for hyper carries against lane bullies, because that way I know I'll be able to outscale and I'm confident enough in my ability to not get stomped in lane.
In top lane in a Kayle vs Darius you only gotta survive until lvl 6 and then the tables flip completely, and god forbid if the Darius misplays and you land an early kill on him, the game is over.
It's high risk high reward but I love it and I've been having good success in gold.
"In a Communist society like League"
I don't know man, some champs are humble and hard working, while others start with a hilariously overloaded kit that makes things easy for them without really working for it. When a snowball is in full effect one team is hoarding all the gold, while you're stuck starving.
I am looking at you,Sett
communism would be tyranny and mass m*rder by those who are st*pid and easily manipulated, who would never have a chance to do anything valuable in any other realm. all are left st*rving but the unworthy.
so it’s an apt description.
As Jungler main I LOVE when enemy picks lane bullies, they're always overextended with no real vision. I pick good ganking early game Jungler like Warwick or Shaco and just camp the lane for the first 10 min ruining their early game by killing them 3 times in first 10 min and making them useless for the rest of the game since they have no comeback mechanics.
This is the thing most of the people complaining in the comments forget about! I abuse using champions like darius, sett or renekton, play them so aggresive that most of the time I get firts kill at minute 3 or 4. BUT, I stay in lane to keep farming, which leads to an early gank that takes my advantage away. Most of the time I don't ward, but, that's a bad habit most top laners have when they are winning. Just learn how to play againts them, it isn't super hard.
You guys are talking like neeko kennen Vlad shen don't exist , even if they are overextended ,mostly your laner has low HP and can't go in ,so you end up in a weird 1v1.5 and hope that the enemy fucks up and your laner doesn't
Ah yes,the wait for jglr and do nothing in lane. Still an annoying thing to do as a top laner where the game just coin flips with the chance of not playing 50% or 100% of the time.
Unfortunately this would take someone with a brain to figure and not many league players have those.
5 stacks darius: thanks for the double buff
4:22 I'd also put Azir in this category if the player actually knows how to play him. His soldiers have many uses, whether it's to bully someone out of lane, help you farm or get you out of trouble with a Shuriman Drift and maybe even turn the situation around if paired with his R, turning his Shuriman Drift into a Shuriman Shuffle.
Playing Azir top is one of the most fun ways to play League imo since very few champions including even other lane bullies can actually bully a good Azir out of lane. He doesn't have a way to quickly regen hp or mana, but unless you spam your spells (which you shouldn't really do), you'll never run out of hp or mana. The only champions that have ever bullied me out of lane (gold-plat elo btw) are Olaf, Warwick, and Swain. Olaf and Warwick post-6 counter Azir big time and Swain is just super annoying with his pull that's slightly faster than the time it takes for a sand soldier to form.
To my mind, Kled is the perfect design of a lane bully. He can be insanely strong in the early game, and still quite strong in late, but his ability to teamfight effectively is hampered by his entirely single target damage kit. His job in late is mainly to splitpush to try and bring people to 1v1 or 2v1 him, but a smart team can easily take out more objectives than he can
He can kill Thundle lvl 1?
@@mastergrim7962Easy
Pantheon is fair where as most other lane bullies are not because they can also scale to late-game making them both strong in early AND late-game.
Laughs in mathemaically correct pantheon true damage
This is soo true man. If I don't flash Urgot's dash in the early game, he just kills me no matter what champ I play. And then ofc he proceeds to outscale the crap out of me.
Basicly pantheon is stuck in rift between top mid and sup
@@valentin4761 Gotta get one-shotted from everyone
I love playing against a Lane Bully, because when I, as a Jax OTP get an advantage, I just utterly destroy them after 10 minutes into the game. XD
Ah yes, the satisfying part on playing a hard scaling champion. Bullying the lane bully.
Jax OTP brother 👌🏻
Aw man
I hate anti lane bullies!
Sion gaming beats you
But if u don’t destroy us well destroy atleast 3 of your teammates before you take us down
You should make a "why no one plays" for Reksai. I personally used to play her a bit and I found out that one of her biggest weaknesses is that she falls behind EXTREMLY fast, I think she falls behind harder than any other champion. Second problem is that her burrowed state can be a bit clunky to navigate in, without vision you need to either put a word down or hit your q to know where precisely your opponent is. That is what I can think of on the fly. Love your videos hope to see more soon.
Love the jokes and sense of humor in these videos. This one especially. Keep up the great quality content!
The day will come when Mordekaiser doesnt press 1 button and yoricks entire kit just disappears and hopefully its somewhere in the next maybe 30 years Edit I know qss exists and mord doesn't counter yorick it's called a joke
There is a 1300 gold item that exists ya know
Better pay yo taxes
@@MartialArtsForY is it QSS?
The day will come when u can buy one item and cancel morde
A useless item that only exists for his ult, 1300, this is the equivalent for someone who needs a tiamat to clear the wave better, or a lost chapter, or the main item for the rift maker, which is one of the main items for the mordekaiser build, if you don't win the first trades it has a CS lead and a QSS lead because it simply exists, and the QSS is totally unusable if the mordekaiser simply uses the ult on someone else who doesn't have.
lane bullies are the most interactive lanes in the game and people constantly complain simultaneously about lane bullies AND un-interactive lane opponents.
"If you give manaless champions no consequence in their ability usage, that's a no."
[Laughing in Akali Shroud]
Seriously though, fucking delete Akali's W and you can open her for stats buffs or other tweaks.
I played Garen against Teemo, and won lane really hard becouse he let me set up a freeze and get level 6 first, then didn't respect and got ran down, repeatedly until they abandoned lane, letting me get first tower, and all the plates. At which point... I had to deal with the reality of having an inting jungler/mid, and a 10/0 Kha'Zix on the enemy team... And all everyone wanted to do was flame... So, yeah, while I had a lead, that game did not work out for me.
I think teemo is one of the best designed counter picks in the game. He EXCELS against certain champs in lane and teams, but also gets DESTROYED by certain champs and teams. He forces people too learn that lane swapping mid/top is a legit strat that has to be used occasionally, as you don't want to face teemo as a Darius,Jax, or Kayle. But Pantheon, Kennen, Gangplank, and almost any mage top smacks teemo. He is one of the few champs in the game who can go ANY rune, and play to it's strengths which really forces people to watch his build path and playstyle as most teemos play differently.
Recently, I have been having fun going hail of blades with nashors rush on teemo top, and it DESTROYS any champ going for short trades.
What I find the fairest about him is that while he absolutely shits on meelee toplaners in the early game, literally getting engaged by them 1 time results in death. If Darius lands one grab on you, there goes your flash. If a Garen lands one q on you, you lose that trade and maybe even die if you get in ult range. I actually really like this because while Teemo makes the lane borderline unplayable for meelee champs, they atleast get _something to do_ instead of praying that laning phase is over quickly. And the reward makes looking for that one opportunity worth it
@@Takin2000 As a long time Teemo main, I'm loving both of you right now.
There's also the fact that Teemo, while versatile and amazing at slow defense, and able to play proactively, has trouble playing aggressively at all. Proactive - moving around and strategizing on how to be useful - is different from aggressive - actually being a kill threat who runs at the enemy and hopefully doesn't die unless it gives a greater advantage than his death gave them. And this leads to a lot of tense games if Teemo gets even a little behind. The further behind he gets, the more he has to work his brain, because he's a squishy champion built for ambush, zone control, mobility, and dps, which is a lot of tools, but all ones that come at expenses, such as survivability or immediate solo game turning potential that isn't planned in advance.
@@NeonBlue27 I agree. I mean, Teemo is really oppressive against melee champions in the early game, lets not underestimate that. He completely dominates the first levels. But hes squishy af, doesnt have hard cc (ever had a Darius or Garen running next to you and simply waiting out your blind to obliterate you 2 seconds later? :D), doesnt have a dash and deals no dmg against tanks with spectral cowl + dorans shield. Hes one of the few champions with clear weaknesses. I think his bad reputation comes from the aforementioned oppressive early game against melees and his blind which, admittedly, can be bullshit at times lol
4:58 the intensity in the way he said that made me laugh so hard KEKW.
i dont see no pyke in the thumbnail.. whenever i play him it feels like im not only bullying the enemy but also my adc
The function of showing when enemies and teammates finish building items and all that is pretty neat, but every program that shows you the rank of teammates and enemies and how "Good" or "Bad" they are is absolute bs, almost every time I vs against people with stuff like Low KP, Pacifist, etc etc they play like challenger smurfs and when I vs against people with stuff like unkillable, high damage, "Smurf?" etc they run it down the second the minions spawn in. It's actually ridiculous how so many players can use that crap without any doubts and how so many channels actually advertise it..
Most lane bully’s have an obvious weakness you can exploit so they aren’t too bad even if you personally feel useless. New champs have weaknesses but then something to make up for those weaknesses, which is why they are hated
most lane bullies are just knowledge check champions, they are entirely reliant on the enemy not knowing how to play the matchup, like fighting a lvl 1 sett or darius, or trying to farm against ranged champions instead of just letting them push and missing some cs until you get lvl 3, most lane bullies don't scale well. A lot of the time the person playing the lane bully loses patience against players that know how to not fight and they beat themselves, once I played against a trundle as yone and literally never fought him just farmed under turret, eventually he lost patience and started taking bad trades and taking turret shots, he ended up like 1/10 by the end of laning phase because once you get ahead of them they literally have 0 going for them in lane
One of the few champs I've been able to find success against lane bullies is Malphite and Aatrox. For Malphite I run Grasp of the Undying and try to proc as many times as possible even in losing trades but I also run Sorcery as the secondary runes with Absolute Focus sometimes switching between Manaflow Band and Scorch depending on what champ I'm against but Absolute Focus is the key. Once I've got my W to Rank 4 and 5 and if I got a decent amount of Grasp procs I'll be able to withstand most lane bullies damage and deal a lot of damage back to them because getting Malphite below 70% health is difficult when he runs the moment his shield breaks. If the enemy chases me when I disengage they're running into my Casters line of fire and I turn around on them. If they're ranged champs like Quinn or Kennen then I'll just blow my ult every time it's up regardless if I can kill them or not because I will be able to land enough damage onto them where they'll have to reset or die to Q pokes because they will have to blow their escape abilities as soon as they're free from the knockup. While they're back at base I shove the wave in reset and walk back and repeat when the ult is back up. Since the shield and high armor helps ignore poke bullying I can get a decent amount of farm without getting pushed out of lane. Malphite has been my go to champ against most of these lane bullies and it's been effective if a bit boring now. As for Aatrox is just a sustain game and getting a lucky Q hit. Fleet Footwork with Resolve Runes Second Wind and Revitalize for as much extra healing as possible and farm carefully until they walk into enough Q's for me to all in them. Mundo is a good anti bully champ too. Immune to CC all ins and can safely farm with Q unless enemy stands in the way but then that's just free poke damage until you can walk up confidently.
As a mid lane main, I honestly think the most frustrating thing for myself dealing with lane bullies, specifically the anti-carry types like Malzahar and Heim, it often times feels like you have no choice but sit and wait for them to make a mistake, be that overextending without vision, draining too much mana, overstaying, or not respecting all in potential. And the higher you climb in elo, the less likely those mistakes are too happen, so you often find yourself stuck playing a waiting game for 20 minutes
I had a love hate relationship with Pantheon support. He was absolutely a lane bully, but I would end laning phase 7/0 and I'd be nigh USELESS in the mid-late game. I'd end up having to build Umbral Glaive and focus on vision. The first 15 minutes of the game were fun as hell though. Never a dull moment.
10:15 "There will never be a situation in the game where you can skip the laning phase"
boy didnt that age well. Janna smite top says hello.
"And likewise, a Renketon wouldn't need to worry about a Draven because they're not in the toplane."
HappyChimeNoises might disagree...
I do remember pianta playing all adcs on toplane.
Showing that you can any champ can be lane bully if its not common for this lane
10:15 I still remember when you could rush raptors as a toplaner and be level 2, I miss the Hecarim cheese :(
Personally i consider a lot of champs lane bullies which arent mentioned just because of their immense pressure for instance - Camille, Irelia, Syndra, Yasuo definitely and a lot more....
7:46
free replay button
The thought process towards the end of the game confuses me. Kha'zix was never meant to be an early game powerhouse. There are many matchups he can bully, but his ganks are pretty bad and he's far from a top tier early duelist. Most of the "lane bullies" who are in the meta are exactly the kind of champion that's too safe to punish who's scaling is hard to contest (such as Tristana).
The most aggressive of champions (such as Lee Sin and Elise) don't play as aggressively anymore (5 camp into crab is the optimal first clear rather than level 3 rush into gank) while Riot continuously chips away at the player's ability to play for the early game and get a quick victory.
You can't stack starter itens (double D-Ring, double D-blade, dark seal/corrupting pot) anymore, lane sustain is completely out of hand (poke playstyles are less and less common across all lanes), riot is openly and actively nerfing mid lane roaming, boots of mobility is an actual dead item and those are but a few of recent changes limiting the player's ability to punish scaling playstyles.
The most recent jungle changes gave the game a small nudge in the right direction, but haven't changed a whole lot in practice. Lee Sin may be a strong pick, but even Lee Sin is doing 5 camp into crab because conqueror and goredrinker allows him to stay relevant when he is supposed to be weak, not because his main powerspike is valuable. You rarely see level 3 rush into gank, invading the enemy jungle for a kill rather than just stealing some camps when you see the enemy on the opposite side of the map.
You describe the game as if we were in season 9 but clearly that is not the case anymore. I don't remember "play safe and farm" to be that dominant since the ardent censer meta.
I am a malzahar main since before his rework. I started playing him mid but after the rework, I started playing him top with the thought process of split pushing. I won most games with malzahar top but not because of split pushing as I had thought. I won them through pure lane destruction. I got close to the wave just to empty my spells on it and soon enough the enemy was at their tower. They couldn't freeze they couldn't breathe and they couldn't get close. Out of all the games I played, I lost lane only in a few hard counters such as Irelia. My point is as long as I stayed mid, the only ones I destroyed were assassins but as soon as I moved top I trashed everyone. Lane bullies can be everywhere but top lane suffers the most and I am not sure if it is a top meta-problem or a champion design problem as I have seen top lane suffer from intruders too many times, for example any mage that goes top or many adcs.
i somewhat remember that half a decade ago, at least most of these lane bullies still had to deal with mana, or they had to sacrifice HP in order to shove everything hard in your face, trade offs that gave you moments to breathe, but perhaps since the games are now half as long as they used to be, and damage & all game scaling keeps getting cranked up, it can feel like you cant do anything against many bullies if your champion just isnt equipped to handle them. Its almost as if "counter play" is no longer a thought in Riots game design. Just FF15 and go next!
I feel like kennen is a well designed lane bully, cuz he doesn’t have the damage early to actually kill you, but just enough to bully you off farm, and you can easily kill him if he uses his E improperly. This balances out his great team fight ultimate
I would believe that if his E actually had a high cooldown. Sometimes que uses it and you go trade with him, then you get stunned and 2 secs later he uses his E again. All without running out of energy
@@marcoantoniomaccarinicaste5855 his E is on a fairly long cool down early
@@marcoantoniomaccarinicaste5855 As someone who likes to play Kennen top, it actually is on a super long cooldown in the early game, it's just that mastering Kennen is all about deceiving an opponent who doesn't understand your champion into thinking that it's always up.
@@somethingrandom5503 Ah yes, 10 seconds is such a long cooldown I just can't believe it. Let's compare the cd of this mobility ability with other champs mobility/engage. Darius' E - 22 seconds. Trundle's E- 24 seconds. Ornn E - 16 seconds. Camille E - 15 seconds. Riven Q - 12 seconds (the champ is broken nvm), Maokai W - 13 seconds. Pantheon W - 12 seconds. Such a high cooldown mobility ability kennen E is. Don't be delusional. ty
@Ishan Kumar Do note, though, that every champion you listed is significantly beefier than Kennen. If Kennen's caught out in a bad spot for even a few seconds, that could be his death, while Trundle, Darius, Ornn, Maokai, and Pantheon only really use their movement abilities to get in close. Camille is the one exception, and even there, her movement abilities is significantly more versatile and useful than Kennen's, and she still can take much more punishment than Kennen can if she's in a bad spot.
As a Swain main I think he definitely counts as a lane bully. High burst damage at close range combined with a long range pull and a zoning ability makes it easy to bully your opponents. If they engage you burst them and run, if they try to play it safe you can abuse them to get free health and healing. Even if you get down early you shine most in teamdights so you can recover your losses if you play well.
I'm so pumped for this one! I love playing Lane Bullies. I get so much joy from repeatedly crushing the hopes and dreams of others. I make it a goal to make my laner afk in 5 minutes or less and this is why I play Darius. Thank You and I hope you enjoyed my Ted Talk.
I think this is another thing to add to the list of why league is toxic
@@hilkmeister1382 yeah I kinda agree with you but I don't think playing unfun champions is Toxic. Personally I have no fun when champs rush Bramble Vest and Plated Steelcaps against me or pick Tahm Kench top but at the end of the day these are just things we need to learn how to deal with. So long as we arent toxic in the all chat I think playing tilting playstyles is fine albeit a bit cheesy.
@@bonkwave1604 I mean...usually the people who pick lane bullies in low ELO get stomped on by any one with competent macro, so ye, it's relatively fine.
That only work on people who don't know how to play.
The issue starts when champions that hardstomp lanes are allowed to also be hypercarries late. Tristana for example. She is one of the best and safest earlygame adc-s currently, pair her with a Leona and you can basically consider the laning phase won with 2-3 kills unless you misplay it. Then after 2 items the old signature lategame Tristana happens, with resetting jumps and still being super safe with huge range and selfpeel. That just shouldn't happen. A vayne is still kind of like a cannon minion with a superiority complex and a crossbow in the earlygame but becomes a monster lategame. As much as I hate her, I have an opening until her 3rd item to make her hate life. Against tristana, I don't. Nigh impossible to gank or dive her due to her huge jump, extreme burst damage with HoB, and self-peel+i just threw a mountain at you damage ultimate. Xin has a similar issue. His ult makes him a ridiculous teamfighter while his earlygame is literally 'don't miss w and you win', while goredrinker steraks makes him incredibly hard to kill, while still dealing pseudo-assassin damage. These are the problems.
Tristana is pretty strong but literally all you have to do to counter her is stun her. I get it, it sucks that there's an adc in the game who is able to actually do something about an assassin jumping on them, killing them far too fast for the adc to react and mastery emoting/saying something toxic in allchat then getting instakilled because assassin players don't usually have a brain beyond "kill duh adc and gloat that my champ is built to do that and it wasn't based on my skill!!!!" But she's not nearly as op as so many people (who probably mainly play assassins in which case stay mad lmao) who don't play her make her out to be. I honestly find Caitlyn to be a far worse, actual lane-bully-who-is-also-a-hypercarry as someone who actually plays both of those champs quite frequently (Trist is my highest mastery champ (and yes she has an assassin-like playstyle, which is exactly why I'm confused when people say she's busted OP, since anything that works vs assassins works on her just as well unlike certain assassins that literally just go untargetable and you can't do anything to them until their combo is over! :] ), but I also play Cait, Ashe and Miss Fortune frequently and they are much more reliable and consistently strong.) With Trist you often have to use your escape tool to jump in and take an actual risk to get kills before you can use its reset to jump back out while Caitlyn just stands back and puts down traps and then 2-shots people as her support sits with her and peels if someone tries to come close. If Tristana is running in and constantly jump resetting and killing your whole team then your team is probably not focusing her down with hard CC and blowing her up the second she jumps in and makes herself vulnerable, completely removing her from the team fight... and if you were all low, sorry. She excels at cleanup. That's her thing. You can't be frustrated that she's good at what she's made to be good at. Even then, if you're low and you cc + burst her she doesn't get to clean up, she can't exactly prevent you from targeting her.
I honestly think most of the people who hate Trist are just buttmad because they aren't allowed to all in and kill her solo since she can ult them away then jump to further the distance. I mean, we have champs like Yuumi who is an enchanter who goes untargetable but people are still shitting their pants over an adc with some self peel. Or people playing Panth support with a point and click dash-stun that lets you cheese from level 1 in lane. Or Zed who has like 2 flashes in his kit and 1 million damage that takes a lot less skill to pull off than Zed mains claim (though he's still a high skill champ, his main combo is not hard at all but the majority of zed mains are manchildren who just want to flame and be toxic to everybody so i get it, they have to say that they're gods). Or Zac who jumps out of the jungle into the middle of the lane and does a shit ton of burst with a single ap item while also constantly CCing you so the enemy support and adc can walk up and kill you. Or... You know. Any of the other strong champs. Trist isn't even the best adc in the game, nor is she the most oppressive. Jhin, Caitlyn, Ashe (who has a built in slow), Kog'Maw, MF... Yeah Trist is by no means BAD. She's definitely GOOD. But have you ever played into Jhin and gotten killed in about 3 seconds level 1 when his support lands a single stun on you and he just 3rd shot, w, 4th shots you and does about 800 damage? I really do think it's less about her being god tier (which she isn't) and more about her just not being completely unable to stop an assassin which other adcs have to out-burst to beat. Varus has a stun and can blow you up in seconds but i never see anybody complaining about him, probably because he doesn't have a jump amirite?
Like fr if you want to beat tristana assuming you're not far, FAR worse than the person playing her, CC goes a huge way. Draven, Twitch and Kog'Maw also tend to beat her in lane really hard because of their high damage. Especially Draven whose damage isn't tied to a high cooldown ability in the early game like Trist's E. Caitlyn also does really well because headshot does like, 500 damage and Tristana is not tanky. Xin is mostly annoying for ranged champs because of his ult, so of course a lot of adc players/ ranged players hate him, but he's also just in-meta cause he's a ganker, which means you have to anticipate he's going to gank and as a jungler, countergank or as a non-jungler, play around the assumption that he's GOING to gank you and ward as well as don't shove lane hard while the enemy is there and make it as hard/unappealing for him to gank your lane as possible. If that means not overextending to get a kill, then you have to do that and let the enemy leave and just keep getting CS. Since I don't play matchups where I fight him as much, nor do I play him, i can't offer as much advice but really it's just don't let him get an easy gank off on you and once again CC really fucks him up. I guess also if you're ranged then wait out his ult while the melee champs engage him. If he's destroying your team, it sucks but league is a team game. If your team is worse and you can't solo carry, that's just how it's going to be for that match. Just make sure that you analyse any mistakes YOU made so that you can possibly avoid letting him get that fed next time you fight him. Like trist, i highly doubt there's ever a situation in which nothing you did prevented you from dying. There are a lot of tools in the game and if your team has no cc, that's a mistake. And if you aren't warding anywhere and getting jumped on, that's also a mistake. And if you go to ward alone and get jumped on... that's yet another mistake. If your team genuinely sucks, it's rough but you still need to mitigate your own faults so that you're never part of the team that sucks for someone else.
Lane bullies! Aka the "Mmmhh today I wanna ruin my opponent day" class
Just pick super tanks to ruin THEIR day, and keep yourself happy :D
^This^
Whenever I play Pantheon top I pray that the enemy doesn't pick something like Mundo or else my whole gameplan falls apart.
@@remito7839 tbh I can respect Pantheon as a laner, it's the other bullies like Ranged top that I can't deal with
@@Nipotazzi as a top laner sure. support pantheon haunts my nightmares though.
@@primcrane8736 oh, yea, he's an absolute cancer here.
well my main top laner is gwen o-o
I think a lot of the league player base hates lane bullies because laning phase is is what a lot of players enjoy about league, and it feels like you just don't get one against these champions. You just have to play safe and wait for jg a lot of the time which no one likes. It also feels like lane bully champs get to have their "fun" in the game at your expense and you barely interacted. Like a Renekton got to have fun pushing your shit in all early game and then maybe his pressure contributes to a loss where you barely got to do anything and your team just surrendered. It is one of the worst experiences in league where you felt like not only did you waste your time, but you almost did worse than that since you lost LP as well.
Can you make a video on the fact that LoL has a very small amount of customization, when compared to games like HotS or Dota 2? Seriously, the difference is insane. From cursors, announcers, spell UIs, even maps and weather effects. There is so much money to be made from that. Plus, imagine a Samuel L. Jackson announcer like in HoN
7:20 Darius is a hacker - he didn’t execute the second last target with R yet he was able to use guillotine on the enemy again wtf
As a darius main there is a bug
Where u w right after u r and kill them it resets your r
Shen is quite competent in killing lane bullies with his max hp damage.
Shen is a lane bully tank. Him and Poppy are probably the strongest early game tanks thanks to their passives
I play Darius and Lillia top and they're both quite the lane bullies on most matchups, but having played both as and against Lillia and Darius I'd say Lillia is pretty fair (except against Nasus and Ornn, they should've banned her) since she can be bullied level 1, has a strong level 3 to 9, weak-ish midgame after one item (so the enemy leaner can realistically catch back up) and doesn't come online as a monster until third item or so.
Darius on the other hand is devastating early and his 1v1 never falls off, and he also has a solid teamfight win con on his 5 stack. If steraks didn't exist he'd probably be actually weak in the mid to late game and would be relegated to splitpushing but with that item as it exists today and his easy access to ghost I find him to be just broken against any champions with less than 535 range.
12:15
It's clips like these that make me not pay much attention to the speaker and just look at the fight lmao. Panth literally just ulted in and got clapped in half a second but his team won that fight!?
Well, they all wasted way more abilities than required to kill him, so they had cooldowns to wait for while panths team started to fuck em over. It was actually a very calculated play
As a pantheon top I really liked to play against other lane bullies (except the poky type) cause you got into real fights from the very beginning
Me playing only ARAM: *Hmmmm very interesting!!!*
ARAM meta video when?
Normie Casual
REEEEE
To be honest. There is nothing unfair in being lane bully. But what about modern abominations like Irelia, Fiora, Camille, Gwen, Yone, Viego, Sylas or Kai'sa. Which are early game but also late game, safe but also agressive.
GP is one of the hardest champions and is honestly my fav skill matchup whenever i play irelia. lane bully, yes. easy, no.
I like playing Vlad into a GP because we both scale about as well and we're both able to back off if we want to so either we sit there going ham in a pokefest or we both agree in allchat to just lasthit minions for the first 5-10 minutes because we know nothing's going to actually happen
@@adamperdue3178 honestly i think gp players are one of the nicest in the game ngl
11:58 its not only because of panic its because their team probably has an AOE ability like Ori/Malp.
Can you make a video on CC? (crowd control) like you have on other mechanics such as healing? I think it would be really interesting to disguss why it might be the most hated mechanic in the game
People hate CC? Why even bother playing the game if you hate the thing you have to constantly play around
People don't hate CC itself, they hate obscene CC scenarios like being rooted/stunned for 4+ seconds by Leona or Morgana. High mobility makes this feel even worse for example half of Akali's kit stops working if she's grounded or rooted, may as well be silenced at that point. But engage is very nice, peel is very nice, set up is very nice so CC is very nice...as long as it is to my benefit
@@bevvvy1374 people hate the entire game and still play it ( it’s called addiction)
@@Hellothere-ss4jq not necessarily…CC as a concept can be really annoying, it’s core concept is that it literally stops you from playing the game for a bit. It’s just a disruption and in my opinion stopping stopping someone from having fun like that is a toxic concept
@@fotiskordatzis9378 🤦♂️
I'm main GP, almost otp so I am really excited for the video
Best counter to lane bullies : Urgot 😎
for support mains with bad ADC like me🤐 all enemies are lane bullies. even my Vaynes and Cog'mas give up before we reach mid game and they are THE late game!!!!!!!! **SAD SUPPORT NOISES**
thanks for quality content. keep up the good work. wish you well
Love to see Teemo, pick Nasus into him everytime. Never lose lane.
morde and aatrox good agianst him too
I lost lane with that matchup once,but only because this worm was babysitted by mid and jgl,he was like 0\3\3 at the end of laning phase.They were even mocking me,so much fun and honor to win 3v1 yeah
It's funny how the game evolved to the point where Teemo is countered by Nasus. It's not exactly that simple really but yeah.
Just go hybrid nasus no Skill needed
@@GoodGuySatan dont understand how teemo can ever counter nasus when his shrooms are stackable
Pantheon’s point-and-click dash and stun that does 3/4 of my health when I’m ADC and he’s support even when I’m stomping hurts my feelings
Pantheon support has seemed to become A Thing and I've given them the middle finger by picking Teemo support.
Oh you wanted to point-and-click stun my adc? How bout your adc goes blind so they can't do shit about it?
You have to Focus a panth though, He is gonna oneshot your adc before his can See again
Yeah but early game pantheon still have the power to kill your adc (and you if you play as a teemo) atleast bring them
And so me the Panth: haha I killed your ADC by myself anyway. XD
13:55 was the best way to describe all the champions I hate. Thanks.
I recently started picking up kayle and mispositioning or misplaying an opponent's trade can cause you to die and fuck up your scaling. I wouldn't mind late game champs having safe earlier if there are still mechanics and macro factors involved in wether they're safe.
No. Kayle to scale while having somewhat safe laning phase is just op and braindead
@@arntry8072 Mind you I said it would require skill to make it safe. Knowing how you need to play the lane in order to survive.
What is the background music for this episode? It might be a good idea to put it in the description 🤔 (or maybe I'm blind)
Anyway, great stuff as always !
I mainly play Tanks and odd picks on top lane, so I'm used to get beaten in 70% of my games in lane, but when I see a Draven enemy bot, I truly know that the game will be bad, for the draven will 1shot everyone and 2shots me.
The thing about lanebullies or earlygame dominating champions is that they dont fall off like they used to, games are shorter and their items are better, look at steraks, goredrinker, divine sunderer etc etc. There is barely any room to scale and beat them.
Meanwhile Katarina players: "Laning" what's that never heard of it?
14:26 *gets Draven top with Hail of Blades flashbacks* Yeah. . . Yeah I wish I didn't
Given how often I get destroyed as Darius, I find it a little hard to sympathize with people complaining about "lane bullies"
I always wondered why on earth I was so bad at toplane until a few months back I moved from an Aphelios main to a top main (Camille/Fiora/Gwen). And I learned the hard way how the toplane forces you to have good fundamentals. It's crazy how I went from hating 75% of the matchups to not being scared no matter what the enemy top picks (except warwick and Jax, fuck those).
When you properly learn your champions (strengths, weaknesses, matchups, trading patterns, enemy important cds...) and wave management you just accept every matchup as it is and have a gameplan no matter what your enemy faces you with.
Camille vs Sett is a great example, I was SOO scared of Sett and really thought he was busted, but slowly I learned every aspect of the matchup and now it is one of my favourite :
Respect him and grab every cs you can without putting your life in danger, only go for trades you are 100% sure will be atleast even because if you are both at 30% hp Camille has a better all-in and you will win, he really only excels at long trades. Repeat that until you have your mythic and from this point it is impossible for him to win a 1v1. Even if you can't kill him before mythic, if you didnt feed him it is basically a free lane, but respecting the opponent strengths and being patient is something a lot of people lack (including me before this toplane focus)
Make a wild rift video please
I'm not a wild rift channel.
@@VarsVerum Ok
@@VarsVerum sad, but understandable.
more solid analysis. thanks for the video!
I rode the pantheon top lane from silver to emerald fast lol it’s so good and people just don’t know how to deal with it.
At 6:35 Quinn destroys an enemy ward that her ally Elise could have used to jump to safety lol
4:35 gangplank kegs should be switched with q because the kegs are super inconsistent
Hey Vars, thanks a lot for the video! One thing I wanna say is that you saying pantheon falls off is a little outdated now. The best pantheon EUW challenger (spearshot) says that pantheon actually scales extremely well now. He’s not a 1v5 hyper carry monster, but he is definitely useful when he gets his eclipse and cleaver because he can armour shred the entire team with his Q/E. He can also very easily make picks and plays with his R and his damage is enough to kill anyone squishy with one rotation. Pantheon is almost always useful late game unless he’s extremely behind or the enemy team comp is specifically bad for him. If you don’t believe me then you can ask spearshot himself as he again is the best pantheon EUW
Oh believe me. I made a summonerschool post about how people need to be more careful about his E damage lategame because that thing hits like a tank LOL
I once played Nasus first pick top, in draft because I’m a bronze beta male.
In hindsight I shouldn’t have picked Nasus in first pick because the enemy laner picked Fiora.
I have to say that the first 15 minutes of that game were the most PAINFUL 15 minutes of my life to the point where I genuinely considered leaving the game, she was a 600k mastery Fiora OTP top lane that was bronze 3.
I literally could not farm as she froze lane and any time I tried to engage I would get poked, poked and then slammed with 800 true damage. I was stuck at under 60 stacks for a long ass time, it didn’t help the fact their Talon was babysitting her too so I got no farm.
After leaving lane I was 0/3/1 with 118 stacks and she was 3/1/3 and had 2 levels.
We ended up losing that game but I ended with a proud 7/4/9 to her 6/6/3.
I genuinely cannot express how much pain I had to go through just to end up losing when I was 2v1’ing her and talon.
I noticed that at 13:56 you put a picture of wukong between the 200 years champions like yasuo, yone and gwen, yet you don't have any video on him, so it seemed very strange to me, since I don't think he's widely considered a super op champion, I used to main him back in the day and stop playing him when they took out brutalizer and the old sunfirecape and trinity force, because it felt too weak (but to be honest that was years ago and I might just be outdated).
What about champs that only require one bad move to become unstoppable? (On top Irelia, fiora and camille, for example)
I think Jayce is a mix between late and early game bully because he's scaling is really good too and can tf with his ranged form having leth and arm pen and a lot of cdr by his items, it's a really solid champ
Keep smoking what you smoked when you wrote the script
7:24
It was both fun and informative also gave a Rav vibe
11:40 your take on pantheon is very wrong
He is insanely strong until 2nd item and they he falls off so hard you need to avoid almost every fight no matter how ahead are you
But after 4th or 5th item(depends on the build) he gains a huge power spike either 1 shooting people (lethality build) or having a insane mix of CC(ability haste and you W) sustain ( sundred sky hp%healing and clipse shield ever 2 seconds) and great team damage on his Q
Great Video!, I think there is an intresting topic you could talk about
You already talked about how not being able to hit an enemy works, with Untargetabily
How not being able to see an enemy works, with Stealth
And also how Healing works
I think there is another mechanic that a lot of players hate
Lockdown
Champios that have kits focused on this, like Leona or Maokai
Subclasses that make grat use of it, like Catchers, Divers, and Vanguards
What happens when a champion like Pantheon o Rengar lock you in place while they deal their damage
Burst mages erasing you from existance because they landed their root
Champions with no CC at all, that have problems chasing an enemy
I think that, when it comes to a mechanic that a lot of players complain during games, Lockdown, or CC, is one of the most mentioned
And then we have Damage Over Time, another intresting topic
my take on lane bullies:
they require teamwork. a (somewhat) reliable way to shut down lane bullies is to ask for help for your jungler and 2v1 them (preferably by baiting out their escape option shortly beforehand)
however, solo q is infamous for a lack of teamwork thus being the reason why lane bullies are so powerful
they can go scot free with their bullying if the jungler doesn't choose to gank and punish them
this was the exact same situation with the TANK META where teams needed teamwork and to all focus one tank to win, but no one wanted to do that
thus, resulting in a meta heavily populated with tanks
I know he's one of the poster children for it and it may just be players in my elo are trash (myself included) but I actually can't remember the last time I saw a renekton actually win a game. I feel like the champion is just a worse version of irelia or just "why don't I play darius or sett instead?" Since not only is renek still nerfed every patch but what set him apart was his quick in and out trade patterns. But with mobility crept up so much and his damage just feeling so low in comparison to everyone else. I just feel like the mad croc has lost his rock yaknow?
He is really ultimate dependent in this super high dmg meta and needs black cleaver every game to do dmg since tabi-bramble is running rampant. What he really needs is some sort of reliable armor pen that doesn't need 50 fury on his lowest dmg ability. His sustain is alright even after the double nerfs. His ultimate hp nerf hurt but it wasn't that bad. It's just that after the enemy gets a small amount of armor, the champ just stops doing any dmg since all his dmg is locked into his long cd abilities.
as a darius main
i like using darius tank with triforce
I'm a mid main, I only play mages, and a week ago I played against a Draven mid as Asol, I couldn't get any chance of doing anything in the game, I didn't even die in lane but couldn't do anything anyway after it game was ended at 20mins because Draven kept picking up kills here and there. If you have a soul don't play Draven mid
What really annoys is that when lane-bullies get a lead, they never seem to slow down or fall off once in late game. This kind of design where some champions are good at all stages with no signs of drawbacks screams design-problem. Sure, it is very important to know what you should do when earning a lead. But they shouldn’t have as much freedom of doing whatever they want and can go recklessly as they please, without any consequences at all. That’s bad design.
I think a lot of lane bullies are balanced the same as duelists in that they draw high pressure by being able to 1v1 many champions thus forcing 2 people to deal with them, the difference being that lane bullies often crumble agajnst a numbers advantage because alot of them are pretty single target focused (teemo renekton tahm darius to an extent gankplank when his barrels are messed with) and heimerdinger while having area damage does crumble as well against a numbers advantage
I play lane bullies too but holy f are they annoying to go against they fall off after lane and it just feels like the only reason the enemy picks them is to piss you off and ruin your game not to actually win.
I play panth not intentionally to do that but because I know I can get a lead and translate it to another lane with ganks.
Hey man, first of all, I absolutely love the content you’ve been putting out, keep up the great work!
Secondly, have you ever considered starting a podcast or something where you discuss items, meta, champions etc.?
I could but... I find podcasting to be heavily saturated and time consuming and I don't really see any particular material benefit to it.
I feel the problem is the speed of the game I main phanteon and I think he is to strong not because he es op in the early game but because most games are win or lose in the first 15 min i remember when phant used to become useless after 25/30 min but now that almost never happens unless I play against another lane bully