Tier-Ranking every Creature in HOMM2 | Heroes of Might and Magic II
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2023
- We tier rank EVERY recruitable unit in Heroes of Might and Magic II. Things get weird.
Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars is a 1996 release by developers New World Computing and John Van Caneghem. It is a turn-based, fantasy-style strategy game in which players develop settlements, build armies, and rely on the skills of their Heroes to battle other Heroes.
Developers: New World Computing, John Van Caneghem
Original Release Year: 1996 (Heroes II), 2000 (Price of Loyalty)
All music composed by: Paul Anthony Romero, Rob King, and Steve Baca
Broadcaster: Ross Liberti
Director: Ross Liberti
Editor: Ross Liberti
Producer: Ross Liberti
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#khelben #homm2 #tierlist 
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Hand-drawn sprites are still beautiful to look at 25 years later. This kind of graphic-style ages really well. Nostalgia-alert!
The Phoenix in particular, imo
I remember being a kid and i got a copy of pc gamer that had this demo. It had all the units, just one playable map. Played the crap out of it. I also remember thinking that the graphics just cant possibly get any better than this. I wasn't entirely wrong
@@jespertuominen5387I probably got that pc gamer demo too, as this wouldn't be the kind of game I'd normally buy. But my God I loved everything about it: the music, the sprite art, the sound design, the atmosphere and the whole slightly tongue in cheek but played straight high fantasy of it all. What a time to be gaming :)
Dude I salute you for doing videos for homm2 in 2023. This is one of those games that I had bought original as a kid, I played this with my friends for so many thousands of hours, that I literally knew everything in this game by heart including all the statistics from monsters and spells. Just crazy. No other game had ever this effect on me. What an insane game. I never hear about this game these days. Best game ever, for couch co-op too. Cheers.
Hell yeah, thanks for watching! This channel basically features my favorite games, and HOMM2 has always been near the top of my list. I'm pleasantly surprised to find such a dedicated audience for the game is as supportive of the game as ever.
Look into a game called songs of conquest. You won’t regret it
@@BrolyPowerMaximum I have played Songs of Conquest. It's good!
Don't worry the game it's not forgotten. It's still a masterpiece to this day.
@@akojulius3777 I know it will always be in my heart, insanely good game. :) :) I also heard that some of the mods made for it are pretty good too.
ghosts should be on their own tier, considering they are completely broken.
Yeah they are definietly S+ rank
Your content reminds me just how timeless the sprites are for HOMM2, and brings back so many great memories from decades ago. Very grateful for the feels.
Yeah dude that game is a work of art, the aesthetics are ageless.
I've been waiting for this ranking for 27 years. Thanks!
Phoenix A tier at least - they guarantee your hero to cast first spell if you attack and put them first in the army stack.
So glad this game still gets talked about because it absolutely deserves it 👍👍
Phoenix's maybe higher because they always give you the first turn no matter what and that gives you the option to cast a spell first or attack a shooter from the start.
The "no matter what" part is 100% not true. If you have negative morale then you can certainly miss the first turn.
@kanelives2895 OK that's true but probably 90% because Phoenix's have high morale
Loved how in the end you've got an almost perfect statistical distribution :D. Thank's for your work.
HoMM2 changed my life when I first witnessed it as a kid. Thank you for making videos about it
HOMM2 + a kids imagination. Just awesome
Phoenixes are S tier simply because having them allows you to open with Mass Slow
Thanks for watching! Yeah, I was really thinking in my head before I recorded that Phoenixes were on the verge of S-Tier because of their speed. I dropped them to A since Titans and Dragons, who are WAY tougher to kill, are only just behind them in turn order.
I'd agree, both phoenix and champion having ultra fast is S tier without the unit having any other stats at all honestly. First turn is crazy powerful
Mass slow is not that easy to get in H2. But phoenix are S because of you can cast whatever you want. And they wouldn't be mass-attacked immediately after their turn: they are typically accompanied with very-fast creatures (elves and druids if it is a single-castle army).
We can add to this fast phoenix-only patrol heroes on strategic map, phoenix immunities and a possibility of phoenix-storm. The last one is still more probable than mass slow.
Yeah for sure will work on enemy that have Black dragons that are immue to any spell , attack with dragons that deal more DMG than Phoenix and they Die really fast
@@jackimus8987 IT mean nothing to dragons that are immue to any spell and can deal more DMG than Phoenix, and IT mean nothing to thousends of ghosts that will just eat them on one attack
The sprites (as in images) in this game are so damn cozy somehow. I just love them!
I would swap Genie and Vampire lord.
Genie have only 10% chance to halve a stack and are extremely hard to recrute. You have basicely 1/10 chance to get your gotcha move on a big stack and then they are dead.
Vampire lord are basicely ghost that cant excess their initial stack. with a few of them you can destroy wandering creature with no loss. And in late game with a big stack they basicly never die.
Thanks for watching! I can certainly buy that reasoning. I will say that, aside from the cost of units, I did not consider difficulty of acquiring units in my criteria. I was mostly looking at value on a battlefield against cost to recruit/build dwelling.
to be honest all you need is a few "suicide squads" of 1 of 5 in a leaders group who is someone you just recruited. what turns into 1 chance of 10%, you've got 5 chances of 10%
@@CallofDutyBlackOps28 As you mentioned, "suicide squad". That makes them A tier at best.
Another factor in favor of the vampire lord is that necromancers get raise dead at tier 3. They are definitely S tier. I was thinking the number 3 troop overall until ghosts were mentioned. So, number 4 it is.
@@winoodlesnoodles1984 even with the 10% genies were made the way they were because in the first game they were basically fire dragons, which is why you have to find them.
There are some small questions here and there, but it's a decent tier list overall IMO.
If I had only 1 position to change about it, I would drop mummies not just 1, but actually 2 tiers down.
They really are just a smidgeon above the zombies.
And of course ghosts are basically an auto-win tier.
I would move ghosts to X tier as they are game breaking.
Wow, this has been a favorite of mine ever since getting the demo as a kid. Glad to see people are still talking about it strangely.
The demo was my first real game (other than learning games at school) on a home computer. Played Broken Alliances over, and over, and over
This popped into my recommended after being on a homm2 binge lately, used to watch my older brother and his friends play this as a kid in the 90s. Really nice vid, your halfling death cry convinced me to watch more homm2 vids from you.
Great list as always! A few thoughts: Phoenixes are immune to elemental spells, which makes up for some of their weakness, and helps give a late game Sorceress some edge assuming she has spells like Elemental Storm and Chain Lightning. Nomads are definitely not better than Master Swordsman (Edit: I just noticed they were changed to the same tier), but their speed in early game is nice to have. Rocs have equal speed with Griffins. I love Greater Druids as well, but they die so easily! Best to get in with a speedy army and kill before they can be attacked (which is kind of the point of the Sorceress), or have units that will be targeted besides them.
Havent played homm2 for probably 2 decades now.
saw your video, instantly clicked on it, and didnt regret.
Brings back so many good memories...
also, weird how i still know the units, the names, the special abilities, and how good they are (i mostly agree with you, with maybe 1 tier difference here and there)...
if only i was as good at memorizing stuffs thats actually important...
Loved your video ! I started playing HoMM2 when I was 6 years old and still playing ! I have to agree with pretty much everything you said, it all comes down to : do we only rank them as their strenght and gameplay or do we think about their usefullness during the game. If its the former then to me its only the titans and the black dragons on top of the list and I would switch position of the momies and hydres put thats it ! Your comments were clearly on point on every single units ! I had fun watching it
I can't thank you enough for these videos. I've owned HoMM2 since I was very young but, although I'd always loved the game, I was absolutely hopeless. I actually stumbled upon this video looking for cheats but decided to knuckle down and try to learn some proper strategy.
Fast forward a few weeks, I just cleared Archibald's campaign for the first time ever (with a Cyclops rating too!) Thank you again (:
Heck yeah, congrats! Thanks for watching and glad it helped informed some of your strategy. You did it!
Vampire Lords are S tier, my dude. Once you have a big stack, they save your whole army from taking losses.
It's a great list, though. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Same do ghosts but better, also they Die when they fought any creature from s rank
Peasant should have his own category in this game
Love this channel. Just started to replay HoMM2 some months ago.
Good ranking overall, in my opinion. I would think that the 'A' tier units are the ones that are going to win the game for you, unless there are a good number of 'S' units around; in that case, the 'S' units would always win the game for you. Of course, neutral units (Genie, Ghost) cannot in most cases adhere to such a scenario, but their special abilites are not to be questioned. So that is the real question for me, which units do I really need to win the game, and you cannot do it without 'A' or 'S' units.
When it comes to each individual ranking, I think you are a little bit harsh on the Centaurs, as rangers should be nowhere below 'D', and I am a little bit puzzled about the Royal Mummy in 'B' and the Griffin in 'C'. I would switch those two. I also think I would have placed the Great Druid in 'B'. Happy that you changed your mind about the Nomads; they are definitely not 'B' tier creatures. :p
But good job, always interesting to see some nerding about HOMM II and III!
Good tier list, id trade genie with phoenix though. Phoenix with mass slow/haste is a game changer.
Love it! The nostalgia is real!
I'm surprised by the Hydra position. I remember using them with Teleport spell and being extremely strong and useful!
Only a few minor changes - I'd move Hydras up to B, pair them alone with black dragons then use teleport and they're near unstoppable. I also prefer Griffins over Roks because of the counter attack, also you seem to be able to recruit a large army of Griffins a lot more easily. Awesome vid, thanks for your insight.
I agree 100% with your choices. I knew Genies were S-tier but I'd forgotten quite why... Oh yes that halfening attack!! Tbh I'd just clicked this video to enjoy seeing the gorgeous character art, but it's a very well reasoned tier list. I said to a friend recently that homm2 was the pinnacle of 2d art for me. Dragon's Crown is definitely a contender too. Thanks for making this vid!
You can "true resurrect" Titan, but it will not work on Black dragon. And if you have to fight 1500 skeleton, or 200 hydra you will take titian for they have range male, so no retaliation, and they can got to the other side of the screen and just keep shooting.
So they also have advantage on the dragon. I never had ghoust seems really cool.
@@omerharon374 The biggest advantage of the Dragons is Immune to Magic. So they have first turn, use their Armageddon and the game is over. And they have more MS on global map than Titans. The onliest advantage of Titans over Dragons are their abiity to shoot and good MS. They can cast Mass Slow and if they have Shooting Cart (artefact), then they have infinite amount of ammo. If you have Teleport spell then you can teleport Titans all over the map and shoot your enemy. But again... The only deadly combo you need is Dragon (even Green), and attacking spell. Even if you don't have Armageddon or Elemental Storm, you can have Blind and Lightning. If you face with Barb then Blind on the Trolls and shoot with Lightning on Orcs or Cyclops. If you face with Elves, then Blind Unicorns and fly between Druids and Elves Shooters.
I think that any Dragon (Green, Red or Back) are S+ unit.
@@eXtreamAngel I think Black Titan with resurrect is scarier than black dragon with Armageddon. Black dragon Armageddon is nice in how quickly it busts through everything, but I think in a slug fest Titans win out.
I could be wrong though. Circumstance dictates what’s best
@@Poobabguy If we are talking about battles 1 vs 1, then there can be tactics for Dragons:
- You could cast "Curse" to make Titans do minimal damage.
- You can cast Disrupting Ray to lower their defence
Because Black Dragon will attack first, you can cast these spells on Titans before attack. What can do Titans? They can cast "Dragon Slayer", but with curse, they will do still less damage, and with Disrupting Ray, they will take more damage, even with resurrection. If they cast Anti-Magic, then they still will have less unitsfor combat after first attack and will lose to Dragons cuz they can't be resurrected.
So these are my thoughts about skirmish. I think, the real battle will have more units and different spells.
@@eXtreamAngel going first isn’t necessarily good though.
-Dragon goes first and casts curse
-Titan goes second and negates curse with bless.
Mirror image, resurrect, steel skin
Loads of buff skills that make the 1v1 easy.
But once again there’s so many factors that would make one better than the other.
In my personal experience the titans can punch through bigger stacks.
Great to see some1 is doing HOMM2 in 2023 rlly. The best game in my life ever, not because of gameplay, music or history... Cause of memories and fun in 90'
These videos are super entertaining to watch, just recently got back into HOMM2 and found this channel.
Peasants are just Skeletons with extra steps.
A nested scene for your camera could really make the overlay pop :3 Great list
1. I would properbly make centaurs D tier beacause they are ranged and have decent speed.
2. I would also set Skeletons as C tier, as they do rely on Necromancy and heroes who does not have Necromancy, don't really get that much benefit from Skeletons.
3. And I would Rank the Hydra as B Tier, it is the best Castle defender in the game.
4. I am kinda thinking about Vampirelord as an S tier, beacause they are so damn good.
Otherwise I agree with the rest of the list.
Vampire Lords are on the fringe of S Tier for me, but I couldn't quite put them on the same level as Black Dragons.
I think my Centaur hate is a personal thing I need to get over... :)
I don't see why a hero without Necromancy would ever have Skeletons. Therefore, I ranked them where I did because they're getting exponentially pumped by Necromancy.
I do like Hydras... I think I docked them for their slow speed and reducing Movement Points on the world map.
Thanks for watching! And also thank you for providing explanations with your own rankings.
There was a scenario where every road was blocked by "zounds" of peasants. Like 2000 x 5. You can't look down the power of peasants.
Cool to see content made on old games, I played this series a lot as a kid but never was great at it cause I was too young to strategize and just played what I found fun.
I love that people are still analyzing games from almost 30 years ago. The HOMM franchise was great in it's time, I'm glad they are getting attention and upgrades to make them interesting to modern gamers.
100%! Thanks for watching.
Great vid man :)
Overall, this is a great list. As albandeubeda already mentioned, I would swap genies and vampire lords. An added kicker for vampire lords is that their resurrect spell (animate dead) comes at level 3.
I would drop greater druids to B tier. They are no match for arch mages or even mages. Greater druids are just one level above grand elves and only get a single attack. As such, they often don't do much more damage than grand elves.
I have a major heartache with hydras down in C tier. If you get a warlock with some damage spells you can often win fights early on just on the pure health of the hydras. Let them tank hits while you cast damage spells. The only thing keeping them out of A tier is the speed. Easily a B tier unit.
Halflings and orc chiefs could use a swap. Halflings are better than orcs in both damage and speed. Halflings can keep pace with orc chief damage as welll as speed and are one level lower. That argues for halflings is C tier and orc chiefs in D tier.
I agree with the placement of phoenix. However, it is easily the best A tier unit. Speed was mentioned. However, add to that immunity to elemental storm. This allows the cheese tactic of just charging into a fight with a single phoenix, popping elemental storm and then paying to retreat. A leader with a good bit of the power stat can be extremely dangerous with that tactic.
It's the cheap version of armageddon with black dragon with the added benefit that you will ALWAYS get first hit, whilst a BD can be taken out by a pack of phoenixes or a horde of champions.
No, week vs week: 5 Greater Druids do 30% more damage than 6 Grand Elves due to superior stats. Getting a single attack vs double is irrelevant, only damage matters after everything is done, and the math is clear. They are also a better target for Sorc's Bless spell. They are even significantly more cost efficient than the Grand Elves when we also take HP and Defense into account, meaning you should always buy Druids first.
I've also run simulation based on stats from 5 Greater Druids vs 4 Magi. Magi do win, but the edge is not super large, however Magi cost 50% more. Even if we account the price of the building upgrade for Druids, the Ivory tower is still more expensive. Magi do have no melee penalty but in ranged vs ranged it obviously does nothing.
" Halflings can keep pace with orc chief damage as welll as speed and are one level lower." They actually can't if my math is correct. Each point of attack is +10% dmg, each point of Def is -5%. So in a direct Halfling vs Orc Chief matchup, a weekly pop of 18 H vs 10 Chiefs: 2*0.9*18 vs 3.5*1.2*10 = 32.4 vs 42. Also, 10 Orc Chiefs have 150 HP, while 18 Halflings only have 54 HP.
Orc Chief is waaay better at tanking enemy ranged units, even if a Wizard casts Stoneskin on Halflings. Orc Chiefs have as many HP as Grand Elves, people forget that.
The most beautiful game of the whole series ❤
Very nice video , thanks!
Nice video. Thank you
Gotta consider how easy/hard it is to recruit each creature, how expensive they are, and how many you can get per week as well. I know the battlefield is what ultimately matters, but the other factors i mentioned are kind of the war economy/logistics behind getting each creature to the battle, and if for example you need to bankrupt yourself 3 times (and each time you recruit them), a black dragon might still be S tier (because good god), but discounted to S- or A+ due to the grand requirements of recruiting them in the first place.
Hi, i dont know if what you said about the phoneix, means they can't come back to life, because when i used to play this game a few years ago, and i remember them coming back to life from the sky. Maybe I'm wrong? Can you help thanks.
I would bump Phoenix to S tier. That first strike can be a huge difference, especially if you have Mirror Image spell. That gives you two first strikes and the hallucinated phoenix will eat up one of the attacks that real Phoenix was gonna take. It's a great combo, especially with two Very Fast shooters in the Arch Druid and Grand Elf right after. It let's Sorceress basically 1-turn a lot of armies.
Yup, start your turn with Phoenixes at the top and quite fast army, cast mass haste and make everyone blazing. first turn win
@@henrykkaufman1488 Exactly, for me the main advantage of the fastest units was always that you get the first spell cast.
Except the mirrored Phoenix goes second...
@@filippecha7909 That could be a good thing, considering retaliation strikes. If mirrored Pheonixes went first their 1HP would guarantee they die to the enemies free attack. Going second is how they're able to deflect one of the enemies attacks
Hmm, good point!
So you finally did it! The first RUclipsr to ever make a Heroes 2 creature tier list 😍 THIS video could end up being one of your most watched 😀
It must be a tough call to rank all units at the same time. I disagree with some of them, but I don't know how I would put this list together myself, if I really think about it...
Archers are the best tier 2 units in the game! The grand elves as a tier 3 unit is not. They cost a 100 more gold than archers a piece. I'd rank them as equals.
To me greater druids are not as great as many other tier 4 units. I'd rather have minotaurs, vampire lords, rocs and ogre lords over this one. Of course they'll have a chance to deal damage in all battles, but the fact that they only have 25 HP, just makes them glass cannon and too vulnerable compared to other tier 4 creatures.
Orcs are great! They never get hurt, as long as the trolls are there to draw the enemies' attention.
Unicorns are my main stack of Sorceress units! Bless them, haste them and they'll do wonders!
All in all i definitely see why you rank the creatures the way you do. Overall it isn't far from my own opinions 😉
Minos are the best tier 4 period
@@Gil-games "oh yeah" as Donald Duck put it... If you do some testing i Fheroes2's "battle only" mode, you'll find that, for example, 5 minos vs 5 ogre lords wins, but 5 minos vs 6 ogre lords fails. The growth rate of minos is 5 and 6 for ogre lords. In the long run, the ogre lords will slowly outmatch the minos... I tried to put 30 ogre lords up against 25 minos. 7 Lords survives 😀 ... But... If you compare the two one on one, minos definitely win. So in that respect, minos is the better creature.
Love the content! Keep up the good work! And btw, how about tier ranking the factions?
Thanks for watching! Stay tuned......
Yes, top tier content for 3AM.
Thank you for this.
awesome dude. I realy loved HoMM2. Those summers playing for days. Awesome game.
Interesting list. I would argue a decent amount of placements though if you include aspects of the game other than straight combat ability however. Titans for me arent S because of the sheer amount of cost and tech required to get them, plus Giants are pretty damn bad for a base 6 tier unit, black dragon at least the lesser colours are still very solid units. Speed kills for map movement too, I'd rate stuff like boats and gargoyles higher because you can get an early exploration advantage with a mule hero or two packing a single of those... ghosts and genies are great but leta be honest how many maps actually let you use them without expert diplomacy anyway? If you consider all different aspects like this a tier list would be pretty different.
I agree. Though I would still put Ghost as S tier regardless, because the moment you get them, you snowball waaaay hard.
But lets take the classic Bone Dragons. I always disliked them, thought of them as weak ... until I relized how damn cheap they are. Yes, they have 'low growth', but the building can be build pretty early in comparison to, for example, a Green Tower, and the unit itself is quite cheap in comparison to its strenght IMO.
Then again, there are two lists you can make:
- usefulness in terms of player
- threat level on the adventure map
So, while I would consider Bone Dragons useful for a player to build, they are way weaker than normal Dragons on the Adventure Map. Then again, they are still stronger than Cyclops and more annoying than Crusaders due to being fliers IMO.
Good point. I would say, in defense of the Titans that, yeah they are very expensive but you are getting a unit that forces the enemy to make a choice. It is a powerful ranged unit AND it has no melee penalty. So do you send a flyer to shut it down? But that flyer will take full damage anyways. If you don't have a black dragon then what are you going to throw at it?
@@nordos yeah your absolutely right, bone dragons arent anything too special but they are by far the easiest tier 6 creature to rush tech for, stuff like that was my point really.
As far as ghosts go, yeah if you get one the map is over so that much winning power would keep them at top despite the rarity for me, I was using it as an example basically
@@danielvereb4579 well outside hit and run spells with phoenix/champion the best defense against titans is to win before the wizard gets them online haha
Exactly what I was thinking. With a few exceptions he put the units roughly where their tier is. OF COURSE a tier 1 unit will be a lot worse than a tier 5 unit. But what is such a list worth if you don't consider costs, early game impact and so forth?
Don't care about the balance. That's why this game is the best HoMM game for me hands down. Best style, best design, best atmosphere, best pixelart, just a masterpiece through and through. Human castle faction for example in this game is the awesomeST and much more unique castle compared to HoMM3 and further - being the only one that doesn't have any fantasy creatures in it, only medieval troops, which is so cool to see in the universe where fantasy creatures are everywhere. This was a bold move just like everything else. That's why every faction feels much more unique here.
P.S. I would argue that crusaders are not A tier in my mind. Their main weakness is that they can die to a single lightning spell because of low hp, and if you are fighting a lot of secondary heroes of the enemy each one of them literally kill 1 crusader on first turn before retreating, which can dwindle their number to almost nothing.
Isn't paladin a fantasy creature in a sense? :)
When H3 was made, there was this generic feel about it I couldn't quite place back then. Yes, I was hyped by 7 units per castle, upgrades for everyone and more factions. After a while playing, I really missed H2 because it was much more unique. Upgrades felt deserving, not just filler. Top tier units diverged a lot between on and the other instead of being all in a similar niche. In the end, I concluded that multiplayer killed the game in a sense. Because 'balance' ...
@@genrikmuradyan9967 Paladins were the second in command to Charlemagne. Basically the best knights at the time.
Seriously man. Your List is really good. Funny enough I knew where you would put them, even though this is the first video of you that I watched. I love this game and I love the artwork for almost every unit. I am 30 now, and I played this game since I was 7 years old. Thanks for this video!
(sorry for my bad english...)
Thanks for watching!
This was usefull man tnx
Great tier list
the HOMM series necromancer interaction with skeletons-over-time is one of the all time greatest game mechanics in a strategy game IMO, chef's kiss
Tier rankings in "my opinion" :
S: Warlock - Black Dragon LESSGO
A: Necromancer - Skeleton Army + Animate Dead can solo most
B: Wizard - Expensive
C: Sorcerer - I actually rate the Phoenix + decent spell casters
D: Barbarian - Only good for early game IMO
F: Knight - Weakest overall (troops + heroes) IMO
13:31 they are both average speed. Also, I know centaurs die fast but I would put them on a higher tier, simply because they are the only shooter available to Warlock (until you get another town with better shooters)
Thanks for watching, and yes, you're right about both being Average speed. Being the only ranged unit for an alignment shouldn't rank you higher, in my opinion.
@@KhelbensCoinTV random question, but do you know about heroes 3 the succession wars mod? Its basically homm 2 recreated in homm 3.with new heroes, spells, creatures etc. Would love to see a video on that from a homm 2 veteran!
I got this video randomly recommended and I am surprised there are still people so into HOMM2. I remember playing this game in hot-seat mode with my older brother. He always played Sorcerers and me Necromancer, naturally I always lost. :D
23:12 is what makes the halflings S-tier thank goodness im not the only one noticing how they sound!
mummies in B ties is just pure madness, C tier at best
other wise very accurate list IMHO
It's been some time now since I did this tier list, and I think nowadays I would agree with you. I find myself not even bothering to recruit them when playing as a Necromancer.
I think the only major difference for me would be making Gargoyles A Tier. They shut down enemy fliers and let your spellcasters shine *and* make all your heroes move across the map super faster for pennies. A big stack of them will never hold out, but you only need a handful in your army at a time for them to be amazing.
Minor disagreements, I'd move cyclops down to B to be on par with Ogre Lords because Cyclops are so hard to get and oger lords hit and take hits like a truck, especially for their Tier. Probably move Hydras up to B. They can't move, but they're a psuedo Tier 6 and terrifying if they do make it to the battle field.
Vampire Lord and Titans are both halfway between A and S. Vampire Lords because their life steal is incredible especially when combined with flying no retaliate and a corner + steel skin. And Titans I move half a step down just because they are so ridiculously expensive.
And then of course Ghosts and Black Dragons are on a whole other Tier.
True titans are most expensive unit in homm 2 , but they are worth their Price for me , i just like them and for sure when i muss fight Black dragons, only their dmg is real problem here bc they do 20-30 DMG even Phoenix have better DMG
Gargoyles are really weak though
Champions in B on pure combat ability but absolutely in A for letting you cast first. That mass haste enables the whole rest of your army.
I agree! Thanks for watching.
To me phoenix is S tier, easily. You attack first, which means you can probs destroy more of the enemy before they can react. I also like the fact you can get them pretty quickly, same with bone dragons.
Add in that you can pop in, throw down and elemental storm and then flee or surrender. I still think of them more as the best A tier unit.
No they arent, yes you can attack first but Phoenix is week creature only what have good in stats is speed and dmg , when you attack with Phoenix Black dragons often you lost more phoenixes then you have killed dragons, one dragon have HP of 3 phoenixes and dragon deal more DMG than Phoenix, same for titans but they have little lower DMG than Phoenix but they have better attack and deffence
The issue being that if it isn't a quick fight, they are extremely fragile. So they get bumped to A tier
Thank you!
Up 1 tier: centaur, boar, gargoyle
Down 1 tier: genie, cyclops, skeleton, medusa, mummy, earth elemental
New tier: F-minus for peasants
Overall accurate as nothing should be moved 2 tiers.
Love your vids! Would be really cool if you'd make a video about the best community maps tho
Thanks for watching! Oh, man... I'd have to play them all first, and there are hundreds on Heroes Portal. Someday!!!
Nice list. Do you plan on making HOMM3 tier videos?
i go with most of your opinions and explanations. vampire lords are my favorite unit, S with steel and blodlust totally strong. it seems sometimes you compare different tier levels... glad you changed nomads^^ most hated unit is genie, KI gets the proc chance, human dont^^
Great vid, all the creatures are ranked quite on point 👌
Exept elementals they are surely C tier all of them. Each has their own advantage and disadvatage. Ranking earth above other doest make sense because they usually get destroyed by ranged units...need to take that into consideration.
PS glad that nomads went down.
🎉
Ranking the elementals was difficult for me. Air Elementals are so fast, I kinda feel like I did them a bit dirty. Earth are ranked above them for their high HP and narrow damage range; the others are a little too fluid and I like the dependability of Earth Elementals.
Man, been ages since i played this game in LAN's and forcing timer for friend's turns haha. Appreciate the work you did here KhelbensCoin and yeah, I completely get your rankings... Love those Skelly Boys :P.... Funny thing with the Peasant's though... If you try to take them on TOO early and they are a Horde, it's just embarrassing losing to them as a noob :P. Feel like being oppressed from Monty Python's films :P... Though i also might be confusing them with the same unit from Heroes 5... Which is stronger? Heroes 5 Peasants or 2's? Could you do a ranking list for Heroes 5?
It could be a good idea to judge units depending one what hero class you have. Because give a dragon to a knight, and its just a really thick dragon. But if you give the dragon to a warlock, its an armageddon strat enabler. I think that its a good idea because if I look at the tierlist it doesnt really show how much warlocks dominate HoMM2. Black dragons are up there but other than that they've got nothing in A tier and only one unit in B tier.
In terms of PVP i feel this list is pretty accurate, but against the computer, because it focuses your toughest units far too often, weaker shooters that would get wiped in HoMM3 real quick actually survive long enough for them to be consistently great. For example, a stack of one thousand peasants is still worthless, whereas a stack of one thousand centaurs is definitely not useless. Thats not a rare occurance mainly because of the weekly extra recruits hobbits and other low levels units have.
Great video !
Skeletons ranked higher than master swordsmen is a disgrace to King Roland! aside from that, very nice my friend, very nice.
Awesome video! 😊
What about Songs of Conquest? I think you gonna love it, even on early access! ⚔️
Thanks for watching! Yes, I've live-streamed Songs of Conquest and enjoyed it very much.
Solid list, I agreed with pretty much everything. You got yourself a sub!
I like the list for the most part. Just a few things I would change:
1) Vampire Lords in S tier. These guys are basically unkillable in large numbers.
2) As others have said, even though they're fragile, Phoenix's speed puts them in S tier.
3) Crusaders and Cyclopes are too expensive and not durable enough for A tier. I'd bump them down to B.
4) Power Liches' splash damage hitting friendlies makes them very finicky to use. I'd put them in C.
5) Ogre Lords are A tier, absolutely. 60HP in a level 4 unit is flat-out nuts. Early availability and incredible stamina.
6) Master Swordsmen and Veteran Pikemen are better than you're giving credit for. That Defense 9 is rock solid, and big stacks are very hard to shift. They're the mainstay of the Knight front line, and should be in B and C tier, respectively.
7) Gargoyles and Hydras should be B tier, Gargoyles for speed and good durability, Hydras for being arguably the best defensive unit in the game.
8) Centaurs should be one place higher. If you've got a ranged attack, you don't belong down with the Peasants.
Thanks for watching!
Vampire lords They are killable no matter of numers when they fought any s rank creature , max A+ rank with archimagi, about Phoenix also disagree , Black dragons slam Phoenixes no matter or they attack first or not and same for ghosts
Love it. Think that I would adjust a few - Unicorn, Mummy, and Lich could be C instead of B. Druids and Crusaders in B instead of A. Move up minotaur to A instead of B and Vamps to S from A
Centaurs in F tier? C'mon man, how else are you supposed to beat those early game stacks?
With something else.
Just kidding. I think my personal experience with Centaurs just makes me hate them This is my list, though, so I'm allowed to put them wherever.
Thanks for watching!
I would bump Phoenixes up to S tier. The ability to guarantee a first strike of that power against anything on the battlefield is extremely useful. The lack of toughness would make it S-
I would shift Orc Chiefs down to D tier and Centaurs up to D tier. Orc are just too slow, and I can't allow any ranged attack unit into the F tier.
Faction Breakdown: (as in the video)
Knights: F, D, C, C, A, A
Barbarian: F, C, C, B, A, A
Sorceress: D, D, B, B, A, A
Warlock: F, C, C, C, B, S
Necromancer: F, B, B, B, A, A
Wizard: D, D, D, B, A, S
Neutral: D, D, D, D, C, C, B, S, S
Then ghosts are SS rank bc they are much better than Phoenix or dragon or titans, and they dont need to attack first,but they are fast and flying creature
@@michu_pl_pl8722
The problem with ghosts is the fact that you basically can't recruit them. They didn't have a building until the expansion. They something you generally have to fight against and won't be able to use yourself.
@@michaelmills8205 yes but its not like you cant get them at all , ghosts are rare but they have map building , but you also can get them from dyplomacy , that are 2 ways to get them and its hard but for me ghosts are worth their Price and that unit often make you won when you have ghosts you have alredy won
@@michu_pl_pl8722 To me, the additional costs required to get Ghost keep them as the one of the top 5 units in the S tier, instead of needing an SS tier just for them.
@@michaelmills8205 for me and my feeling about them bc i haved ghosts they are best of S rank of course but do really any creature from s rank really compare to them,no and that's why i think they are SS rank bc dragons or titans do not really compare to ghosts, when you have titans or dragons or Phoenix that doesnt really mean you would win , but ghosts bro , 5 is enough, all you have to do is attacking other creatures from maps and then enemy Heroes
I could play this game all day and never get bored I always play on expert and even take the worse castles Barbarian or Knight but I will "artifact hunt" and keep reseting the game until I can find a shipwreck survivor or a random artifact near bye like the arcane necklace, black pearl, compass/boots, something decent to start with.
Been playing since 1996 when it came out great game 10/10
Excellent tier list! I do however wish you would factor in unit cost and how difficult it is to get the unit building. Other than that, great stuff!
This was fun to watch. I would put mummies lower. Gryphons on the other hand are way more useful than mummies even in the late game.
Something you didn't mention about Black Dragon is their attacks hit the target hex as well as the hex directly behind it.
Hey, thanks for watching! Yes, for sure, that's a huge advantage to using Dragons. Black Dragons are the most powerful creature in the entire game.
S-tier: Red Dragon, best unit in game. S-tier: Black Dragon. S-tier: Titan, worse than Black Dragon. Gargoyles are S-tier. Boars are A-tier. Hydras B-tier, good for clearing out annoying mobs like Ghosts from abandoned mines. Paladins B-tier. Steel Golems B-tier great for defending castles. Battle Dwarves B-tier, great for defending castles. Wolves B-tier great for making your heroes move faster. Genies A-tier, too squishy and unreliable. Rocs A-tier. Wizard B-tier expensive building, too squishy without upgrade, too expensive to upgrade, expensive unit cost. Grand Elf A-tier - cheap, effective, fast movement speed. Unicorn A-tier good build path cheap building cheap unit cost tanky good chance on hit spell. Halfling A-tier, super strong damage dealer. Centaur S-tier - aggros enemies and is tanky, great movement speed for lvl 1 unit. Griffin S-tier - cheap to make, great ability, tanky, flying. Those are some key corrections I would make.
I'm a world record holder - Map Broken Alliance in 16 days.
Aaaah, Heroes 2, first game I think I overplayed, like hours and hours at a time. Great list, I think I would have had the ghosts at A, as they have to feed indeed, on weakest creatures, but can be managed early on with tanks like black dragons or titans.
Thanks for watching! Whenever I play an expansion map with a Barrow Mound, Ghosts just let me win every time, so I had to make them S.
Gryphons over nomads and mummys easy. Love seeing youtube stuff for HoMM, thank you. Fully agree with the centaur are squishier than they should be.
i think separating this into tiers would make more sense
The greatest game ever created.
Edit: a thing you forgot about Rogues is their spy ability. It's very useful for early game.
I think that's only Homm3 they do that.
@@KyriosHeptagrammaton You're probably right. I mainly played HOMM3 with the user expansions (In the Wake of Gods).
@@marcusaurelius5149 It's one of those things where it feels like they _should_ have that power even if they don't haha. I always think Homm2 Nomads have the sandwalker ability from 3
note that, even though Black Dragon have lower attack/defense than Titans (14/14 against 15/15), they do have a big advantage, and that is their damage: 25-50 for the Dragon vs 20-30 for Titan
As a note, even the Phoenix has a higher damage rank than the Titan, at 20-40 (they do have much lower hit points and attack/defense though)
On another note, yes, the Centaurs are not great unit, but they are the only ranged unit of the Warlock (the Knight and Undead being the other two races that have only 1 ranged unit). For that reason, true, they barely do some damage, but if you play against the computer, every AI will target ranged units first, no matter how strong/weak they are. So, for instance, if you have to take a hard battle against, lets say, a Wizard, his titans/archmages will target your centaurs first, and ignore the most dangerous unit in the field, and that would the be dragon. I usually go with 1 big dragon group and 4 split sets of centaurs in those fights - that means that the first 4 ranged attacks against me will ignore my dragons, and i am free to target his weaker units at start (archmages and such)
Bad take bro, Centaurs are Average speed, and Hero speed is determined by your slowest speed.
Average speed for a tier 1 unit is great, even more so considering it is always useful since it's ranged. Considering how Gargs can quickly and easily block enemy archers and prevent your Centaur losses, that puts them in C tier overall, since their numbers stay high, keeping their damage somewhat relevant until you get Dragons.
The algorithm works in mysterious ways...
I would have put master swordsmen in B because they are quite tanky and usually aren't priority targets for spells
Something else I’d consider is that titans typically draw aggro from the AI, so that’s either a negative or a positive for them
This list was fantastic - it was just the refresher I needed. I love your passion for the game, it really shows. I don't know where the last 20 years went, but here I am, and I'm ready to dive into the campaigns again. Wish me luck!
Wow, thank you for saying so, and thank you for watching! Welcome back to Enroth, my friend. Good luck in your gaming!
@@KhelbensCoinTV You're welcome, it's great to be back! :)
Nice list, though I'd drop liches down to D if not F, I never buy them simply because they are sooo expensive and are targeted by all AI and fold in a second and then the splash damage is annoying.
Also I'd pump Hydras up one for two reasons: first load them with a knight, just Hydras and you can clear a lot of non ranged wandering monsters without any losses, picking up a lot of resources just behind your main character. Second bring them to the final battles, there staying power comes in very handy once everything else is dead!
Oh and I'd place Vampire Lords in S tier, just, once you get a critical mass of these guys they just never die, especially if there are a few squishy units to suck up at the end of a fight.
Nice list though
Interesting note about Hydras! How do you compensate for the limited world map movement, or do you just not care about that as much?
@@KhelbensCoinTV Having a Knight or Barb with Logistics or Pathfinding helps them a bit, but generally they just follow the main hero going after extra mines + resources so your primary hero can focus on chasing down the enemy. They lvl up pretty quick off the kills too so you get a good 2nd hero after not too long.
You can use hero trains to move them around a bit faster as well, good if youve already got those going for reinforcements from your starting city.
@@KhelbensCoinTV The best types of monsters are either weak flyers like gargoyles or sprites which will always take down a few of your archers or just cause unnessary damage to useful units in your primary army. Also any medium heavy infantry which Warlocks would struggle to wear down in time, like ogres or steel gollums, hydras just soak up the damage and when surrounded kill everyone at once!
Its not a game changer but allows you to really use these units in a positive way and expand a bit quicker on certain maps, hoovering up all those resources to trade for Sulfur lol
@@KhelbensCoinTV Oooh I forgot they are great ghost hunters!
I was placing most units in the same tier with maybe a few exceptions. Like water elementals could be higher just for their speed, earth ele are good but I hate taking slow units with me. Dwarves are fast enough to take with you and they're usually going to be defending your ranged units, D tier units (to me) are units you kinda stop using later in the game but dwarves are always good unless you've replaced them with units from another town so they kinda feel like C tier.
vampire lords - Easy S tier as they can carry early game fights and allow you to snowball earlier
pikemen - knight units are all garbage, but they're really not much worse than swordsmen and are filling the exact same role. I'd place them in the same tier as swordsmen
minotaurs - these are the most reliable units for warlock and are built very offensively, easy a tier. I would almost place gargs a tier lower because they die so fast and they're so weak but the fact they can fly makes them somewhat useful.
boars - they are weaker than wolves but they're pretty cheap and kinda serve the same purpose, either defending or blocking ranged units.
LOL at that terrible take on gargs.
If the Warlock hero starts with gargs and can hire another hero with gargs on day 1, he can clear extremely strong ranged stacks on like day 2, like Grand Elves on a gold mine.
No other unit enables doing so that early. A single Gargoyle also enables auxiliary heroes to achieve maximum early game speed, which most other factions cannot.
You say around 7:45 that it depends on homm2 vs fheroes2. Why? Whats different?
Good question. The fHeroes2 AI is a work in progress, and sometimes it dictates that turrets, hero spells, and AI ranged units will attack another stack other than Orcs or Orc Chiefs. My gut feeling with the original game's AI was that they would mostly prioritize targeting your ranged units with turrets and the like almost every time.
@@KhelbensCoinTV i'm playing on 1.02, I see in the patch notes up to the current 1.06 version some AI improvements. It sometimes seems to target the unit that moved in front first, or a flier you invaded behind walls with.
I'd say Vampire Lords are easy S tier, I think they end up carrying most Necro armies even into the late game. Their safe attacks and regen are just so good,
But they cant really compare to any other creature in S rank , maximal A+ rank but with archimagi too
For once the YT algorithm did its job and found me something that I actually like lol. That's a subscribe right there.
Thanks for watching!
Some units can really get much better with the adequate magic, for instance teleport hydras are busted, and sometimes you could go with mass golems and spells like armageddon, just to do grinding armyes that die fast but weakens a lot his more expensive army units, but i get you are talking about general combat situations.
Not sure why but in your description H2 Price of Loyalty is said to be released in 2000 when it was released in 1997. Surely PoL was not released after H3 lol.
GOOD tier list - only change for me - centaurs to D tier since it pains me to see them with peons and zombies : ] other then that great job