What do you think? Should the non-burn areas be closed? Private companies allowed to invite hikers through? Would you hike Mt Baldy knowing it was in the closure area?
So even with an adventure pass you get a ticket if you park on the side. They're limiting attendance. It also appears the government is hosing the public. The adventure pass doesn't count at Vincent gap and we need to pay extra because said government let a private party charge. These are our tax dollars 😅
@@dragonlo6514 - absolutely agree. The government is power tripping/out of control and this is ridiculous. The whole permit thing is BS in the first place as YES, we pay for these places already with tax dollars. I say hike away in large groups and push back against the totalitarianism where they are trying to double charge/limit us.
If an area is closed, it should be closed for EVERYONE. There is a reason why the area is closed for a time after a burn. If you operate a business in the area, too bad. Write off the loss. Its sux, but it comes with the territory. People should get fined heavily and mandated to do a certain number of hours trail work. Law enforcement should rather chase robbers and car thief in trail head areas.
Big NOPE Hikers and bikers love the land and know to stay on the trail. We’re not locusts. The burn areas are going to regrow like they always do. It’s the natural circle of life for this area. The closures really feel like an overreaction. Almost like the person in charge needed to prove they are taking their responsibilities seriously.
@@stevenwolverton3822 - exactly! Totally agree with you. Some ppl get power trippy with their positions and some ppl just seem to like to be slaves. 😜 Others of us can think for ourselves, are responsible, have self control, and can self “manage” ourselves, tyvm! 😎👊🏽 “We are no locusts”. BOOM
I noticed that the Climb for Heroes Mt Baldy charity event is going to take place on Nov 9, 2024. I've donated to this charity, and I think the Climb for Heroes is a wonderful event. At the same time, if Mt Baldy can be open for this charity event, then Mt Baldy should be open for the public.
Standard fare for the USFS closure order. They start with cut and paste text then add a few things if needed (e.g. bungee jumping business). During 2022/23 much of the Los Padres Forest on the central coast was closed for nearly a year because it rained (really, that's it). A few places had washed out backroads, but the closure was huge. Oddly, many of the good USFS personnel on the ground had not heard of the order and those that did seemed to dismiss the practical application of it.
Good info. Tried to hit up Chantry this morning. Got there at 6:00am and the lot was already full with people starting to park on the shoulder. Guess this will have to be a day off weekday hike.
Yea always wondered why they did the gate there given people can camp, stay overnight in cabins, etc. I'll only do that on a weekday and waiting early for the gate to open. It's a drag.
Thank you and Baden Powell just opened yesterday afternoon after I did this video - post and map here: ruclips.net/channel/UCeR8sH3N4MMnYKiSC1gcV5wcommunity?lb=UgkxM526JD2kVpOqtJFkfqeagFrhX5WVtW1a
So I live near big bear lake where lots of closures happened. The closures are only on the south side of the lake and the whole north side is still open. The area is SUFFERING because the general consensus is Big Bear is CLOSED BECAUSE OF THE FIRE. I’ve seen more non locals spreading this info while the locals are trying to tell people the area is open, a ghost town and if you like fall hiking with color changing leaves now is the time to go since hotels are slashing their rates.
Friends and I went to Chantry Flats in hopes to hike to the top of Mt Wilson today, only to find out the portion of the trail to the top was CLOSED. We hiked as far as we could (Sturtevant Camp) only to find out the trail was near impassable with debris from past storms. The word is, they are working on it and hope to have that section of the trail open by next summer....
That parking lot at Chantry Flats is so small that by the time I get out of the Valley and up to Santa Anita the lot is full. 50% of the time I've had to park in sketchy places and walk up to the trailhead, doing the 'hike before the hike'. And of course walking back down to your car afterwards, other people in cars see you, and want your spot and your Adventure Pass!!
Be aware that some closures of trails is due to man power that would usually be available for search and rescue being used for repairs elsewhere. This is true here in western NC on the Blue Ridge Parkway, along which the Mountains to the Sea trail runs. A fire fighter friend reported they recently shut down parkway repair teams to locate an injured hiker who ignored the closures. So, the more time spent tracking down illegal hikers means more time closed. In western NC, it also means precious time and personnel taken away from restoring clean water and electricity to hurricane-ravaged communities and more time people are forced to live in tents pitched beside the ruins of their homes.
I noticed the new mobile version of Garmin Explore is now out. I didn't get a chance to mess with it much yet unfortunately. Looking forward to your take and I'm hoping the route creation is greatly improved.
There's a mountain in AZ that's been closed for over a decade because a wildfire damaged the area. I don't think walking down a single track trail is going to cause more damage. But what do I know I'm just a hiker.
The business exception is to avoid the potential of such closures becoming a "public taking" where the government would have to compensate business operators for the lost revenue. While it might be possible to argue that your loss of recreational activity is likewise a taking courts would be much less apt to award you any compensation.
Lost recreational opportunities is a real thing and the government should have to compensate the public. But the courts have become so expensive that only the rich can afford to use the legal system. I'd love it if there was a class action lawsuit against the forest service. Maybe we wouldn't win but it would cost the forest service money, a few bad forest managers might lose their jobs and the forest service would realize that there are consequences to screwing over the public. Businesses should join the class action lawsuit as well, they weren't officially shut down but much fewer people came because there were no recreational opportunities and you could make the argument business was taken.
I think the Bridge To Nowhere bungee company actually owns the land. The LACo tax assessor page shows the land as privately owned (no FS or LACo FC)...
Re: iOS 18 and satellite coverage -- another YT'er tested it in bad cell areas and, while it worked fine of there was absolutely no coverage, if there was even one bar of coverage the satellite would not connect. I related to that since, on many occasions, I have had just one bar and still awful cell coverage. In an emergency, if that was the case, I would therefore not be able to connect via cell or satellite. Makes me glad I am keeping my Defy. (No longer have Garmin due to monthly cost)
I've found that to be an edge case. It happens occasionally. I've also tested satellite 911 in really remote areas that had no bars and the call has gone through. I think the "1 bar" thing has more to do with the iPhone trying to use iMessage instead of old SMS - I'll do a followup video to address this because I'm seeing a lot of info that hasn't jibed with my experience. And good move keeping the Defy, between that and the iPhone you should be good. Hiker just got rescued using a Defy, I posted the story on my community feed. Some things you can do to resolve the "1 bar" edge case: messaging reliability: Disable 5G: In weak signal areas, 5G might not work as reliably as 4G (LTE). You can switch your iPhone to 4G or LTE only: Go to Settings > Cellular > Cellular Data Options > Voice & Data. Select LTE or 4G instead of 5G Auto or 5G On. Enable Wi-Fi Calling: If you’re connected to Wi-Fi, enabling Wi-Fi calling will route your text messages (and calls) through your Wi-Fi network instead of relying on your cellular connection. Go to Settings > Cellular > Wi-Fi Calling and toggle Wi-Fi Calling on This iPhone. Enable SMS fallback: If your iPhone is trying to send an iMessage but the network isn’t strong enough, it may fail. Ensure that your phone is allowed to send as SMS when iMessage is unavailable: Go to Settings > Messages and turn on Send as SMS. This will automatically send a text message as SMS instead of iMessage if the data connection is weak. Turn off Data Roaming (if not needed): If you're in an area with poor coverage and you're roaming, you might want to toggle roaming settings: Go to Settings > Cellular > Cellular Data Options and turn off Data Roaming if you're not traveling internationally or if roaming is unnecessary.
@@stuartb9194 public land does not mean that any member of the public has an inherent right to access it, it means that it is maintained in the public interest. If restricting access makes preventing forest fires far easier for the NFS, it's the right call.
@@noggin6870 You are absolutely wrong and the NFS is out of control. They have exceeded their statutory authority for years and hopefully, that will come to an end soon.
@@DPM-dp9on you do realize the main job of the forest service is to... manage the forest however they see fit? Including setting aside parts of national forests for industrial logging? Their single main goal is preserving the forest because it's *useful.* if letting people onto the land endangers that, the they can restrict public access whenever they want. National forests aren't parks, they're resource tiles.
@@stuartb9194 - the kind that likes to be “managed/lorded over. I can guess which political party to which this person ascribes. Slaves vs free men is an ongoing issue now in America! 😜
@tombarr949 so you think that they are too lazy to hike up and check so they just close everything? If that's the case, they need to get out there and do their job. This is not acceptable.
Yes! Absolutely undamaged, unburned areas should NOT be closed. I know some trails are safe & should be reopened. There are already too many ppl squeezed into too few spaces. Just when areas were opening up again & growing back here they are closed again for who knows how long this time. This is nothing but punitive. Sometimes I think the FS likes it this way. I moved to Modjeska Cyn to hike the Santa Ana Mtns. I cannot endure another 5-yr closure. If Cleveland & the USFS cannot manage a tiny Forest such as the Trabuco District some other entity should take it over. Who's bright idea was it to allow the Marines to come in & blow up the remaining check dams on Trabuco Creek??? & stop allowing development to creep up the foothills!!!......
@@wolfeadventures I'll be interested in watching that. Gaia has always been my #1 app for hiking but my annual subscription ended last month & with the price increase I couldn't justify paying for it again so I am about to start watching How to Use CalTopo / CalTopo for Beginners. 👍
Does anyone have ANY idea when the hiker dorms at Phantom Ranch will reopen? They closed for the pandemic, and then stayed closed because of work on the sewage treatment plant. Any word on how that's going, timeline, etc.?
Probably permanent, as part of the Wildlands Project. Just veiled under one excuse or another. There are several permanently closed campgrounds just around where I live.
If an area is closed then its closed very simple really. we have areas here in Canada that get closed off for fire risk or wildlife areas etc the signs are very clear, $10,000 fine to start and goes up from there, so you chose. wait a few weeks for the risk to clear or pay the fine.
Coming from a place where I have the constitutional right to freely access nature and where all restrictions of public access need to be well justified and as limited as possible, both in terms of space and time, such broad closures of whole areas always strike me as being very odd.
I was at Icehouse on Thursday morning. Two dudes pulled up next to me and asked if this was San Antonio. I responded no, that mountain is closed. They asked what would happen, I said get fined. They laughed at that and proceeded down the road to Baldy. They didn't look hiking ready, so maybe they just wanted to go look. But it really bothered me. Whether or not I think the closures are ok, I'm going to respect the decisions that are made.
Yea my hunch tells me that a big part of closing Baldy is to save the FS/SAR a bunch of legwork dealing with non-hikers doing that hike, especially once the snow arrives.
After the Holy Fire, they had a ranger sitting out their all the time for months, maybe years on the road leading in. They just opened Holy Jim Trail before the Airport Fire which also appeared to be handled with a "let it burn" strategy like the Holey Fire.
@@noggin6870 I think I’ll be the one to determine if I have an opinion. You’re being fairly myopic by thinking one cannot visualize a similar situation elsewhere and what one would do in said situation.
@@NYEXPRESS56 in general my stance is that, unless you are actually professionally trained in dealing with a certain situation, you should always follow the guidelines provided by the people who are. The opinion of a non-expert has no value. That's how we got people who stopped vaccinating kids, was us mistakenly telling people that they have a right to an opinion in cases where they absolutely should not have one.
@@noggin6870 dude god read better. The whole post was asking for peoples opinions. He didn’t ask for professionals opinions. Damn some of you posters are whacked. Go bother someone else would you please. Ps-how’d that covid vaccine work out? Inject that crap into babies who had no issues with Covid at all. That was YOUR professionals hard at work. You gotta be a liberal.
Non-burn area closures are government over-reach! The people should not stand for it! If it's a public area, it belongs to the people!! Unless it's an active burn area where someone could actually get hurt, it should not be closed!
Furthermore, there is an epidemic of obesity and mental health problems. Going outside and hiking alleviates these problems, and therefore hiking should be encouraged, not restricted and made illegal in non-burn areas.
I do not agree that the bungee folks can operate in a no hiking area and hikers get fined . No reality here , it’s $$$ for the bungee company . I thought the Bridge Fire actually started in the Bridge to Nowhere area??
Illegal summits. There are some times where it has a baffling reasoning why it would be closed. Closing for events or allowing an event despite the closure is not okay. Chantry Flat. Closures happen that's okay. Roadside parking is an ugly situation with no easy solution. Seasonal workers, I'm not okay with the way they are classifying this. You should be eliminating seasonal workers because you managed to find a reason to retain those said workers and upgrading them to also continue work into all seasons. Which not at all the case given the fact that most of the news I've heard about it is that it is just happening.
@@Xhadp the forest service would love to keep seasonal workers year round. That isn't free though, and they've become and more starved for cash lately. So has the NPS, which is why we're seeing seasonal closures and fewer backcountry permits get awarded in a lot of the non-major parks. Preservation, responsible preservation, isn't cheap.
Closures might suck but it's not a bad idea for at least a few parts of nature to get a break from human activities once in a while in this way at least.
Everyone wants a trail, nobody wants to build or maintain them. So trails stay closed. Mountain bikers were a big source of trail building muscle but e-bikes have split the community and the clubs that used to organize trail work are disbanding. Part of the general rot of the country’s institutions.
E-bikers are nothing but pussy soy boys. I am a hiker/runner. I know I am at least twice their age & I'm on these trails under my own power. How are they not ashamed that they can't ride a normal bike? I am embarrassed for them. They don't belong on trails. Esp trails that are posted 'no e- or pedal-assisted bikes' or 'no motorized vehicles', as they are motorized....
I applaud these people that illegally hike, a national forest should never be closed. Its wrong to punish everyone because a few bad apples and I no longer support the park service/forest service because even though I haven't done anything wrong I've been punished too many times. The park/forest service are doing an excellent job of making enemies/shooting themselves in the foot. Instead of closing the forest the park/forest service should hire a few more rangers to enforce the more sensible rules and give big fines to the worst offenders. I know they would only catch a small fraction of the rule breakers but I think making an example of the worst offenders would go a long way towards motivating others to behave. In my home state of Washington large areas of forest remained closed even after a 2 to 4 inch rainstorm had put out all of the fires, the forest service is using the excuse that alot of dead trees will fall without warning and its not safe. We all know that the forest service only has the budget to clear a tiny fraction of these dead trees, trees will be falling for many years and if I walk through the forest not lingering in any one spot and don't camp under a dead tree the chance of a tree falling on me is much lower than the chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the trailhead. I don't trust the forest service to open the area in a timely manner. I get that when there are alot of other fires the forest service might not have the resources to rescue me but that's okay just put a sign that says you are entering at you're own risk we can't save you but don't close the forest and I will decide for myself if the risk is worth it.
Someone else said they may also be worried about non-native seeds being spread by hikers and overlanders into burnt areas and possibly causing problems during the phase where everything is trying to grow back. I see a lot of Italian Thistle in places where I'd never seen it 15 years ago.
You have been punished many times. That one sentence says more about you than the park-forest service. I am an old man who is a long-distance backpacker, backcountry skier and in my younger days a fairly high-end rock climber. When I was 18, I camped to close to water, and I was ask to move my tent. I told the ranger I was to exhausted. I was so he moved it for me. I have hiked thousands of miles and had no issues with the people you seem to have issues with. Maybe just maybe you are part of the issue.
@@camphikelivecalifornia3864 So are they going to close the forest for the next few decades? its going to many many years before the native plants grow back and I don't think closing the area for many years is realistic. In some areas the native plants will not grow back no matter how much time you give them because the climate has gotten hotter and drier. Where you used to have pine trees you might now have chaparral or grassland.
@@mtadams2009 Let me give you a few examples of how I have been punished for something I didn't do. There are big parts of Washington where someone left a pile of trash and no one is allowed to access the area for years, they don't have any rangers patrolling the area wrighting tickets they just close it. In Mt rainier Park you can only camp in designated areas which is absurd there are plenty of flat spots in the forest where you won't do any harm. Again rather than send a ranger out to ticket the few idiots that try to camp in the middle of a flowering meadow they just close the area to everyone. I once had a ranger question my bear canister and tell me next time i needed to have a heavier more expensive bear canister. Excuse me I have been using this bear canister for 20 years without a problem and its heavy enough. In North Cascades Park someone started a 500 acre fire and they closed more than half the park and kept it closed even after there was a multi-inch rainstorm. The fire did not cross any road/trail yet good people were still denied access. Finally closing an entire forest because of 1 person is just crazy.
The Mt Baldy Ski Hut Trail didn't burn. Neither did the Devil's Backbone trail. The Climb for Heroes charity event is scheduled for Mt Baldy on Nov 9, 2024. If Mt Baldy can be open for a charity event, then it should be open for the public. Furthermore, there is an epidemic of obesity and poor mental health. Hiking can alleviate these problems. So access to these hiking trails is important for the public.
It always puzzles me that some people believe their judgement (without access to the data that was available to those who make rules) is superior to those charged with protecting. That rules are for others, that they are always the exception, always the entitled ones who know best. And won’t make the effort to find a way to work to change the rules. SMH
Do you always believe government workers and politicians have better judgement than you do? These are the people that are supposed to control these fires and they have become less effective over the years.
When you drive your vehicle into the forest, your wheels are loaded with weed seeds and other polutants that are not good for the natural and appropriate wild flora and fauna to recover after a fire. It takes time for regrowth to occur to where it is safe again for people coming in.
@@noggin6870 I don't think you have spent much time in the wild or even tried to maintain a lawn. God made this environment incredibly resilient if you look at with open eyes and a head free of propaganda. The environment turns everything into fertilizer...some of it takes time but nature wins.
Yea that's what I think. They're closing spots that they think will potentially drain resources in case of an emergency. I think ideally they'd love to keep Baldy closed all winter and probably will.
@@matthewharper4605 I guess it means having the resources available to deal with emergencies. Maybe a PSAR person at a popular trailhead like Baldy as do at the Grand Canyon. Maybe even crews to maintain trails. I don't think it's brain surgery and I don't think it's such an extreme all-or-nothing proposition.
The NFS is out of control and forgets that federal lands belong to all Americans. Hopefully the Chevron decision will allow for better oversight of this heavy handed agency and open them up to lawsuits.
That's not what federal land means. It just means that the government maintains it in the public interest. For most federal land, that doesn't mean giving the public unlimited access to it.
@@noggin6870 The federal government acts in its own interest. If you read the reasoning behind the formation of the NFS and the Park Service it was to preserve natural areas for all Americans to enjoy. They were created to manage these areas to make them accessible, not control and regulate them to death. Nor were they authorized to charge fees, issue permits or setup any other regulatory obstacles. Don’t be a sheep. Question authority. It’s the American thing to do.
@@DPM-dp9on the park service is for enjoyment. The NFS is for managing resources. They preserve forests not because they're nice for the public to visit, but because they are useful. If the public endangers that use, the public is removed from the location. As they should be. I'm not being a sheep, I just actually spent two seconds thinking about things other than what I personally would want and am not terminally entitled.
@@DPM-dp9on Unfortunately in places like populated Southern California the national forests are being 'loved to death' just due to the volume of people coming into them so there have to be some controls. And with the slow erosion of its budget and staff its getting harder and harder for the NFS/NPS to 'police' the area. Obvious stuff like tagging, trail cutting, off trail hiking and MTB-ing, trail running, trash from all the different groups; too many people chasing too little forest area. As for the recent fires I can see keeping some areas closed pending flare-ups (due to Santa Ana winds) until the first significant rainstorms/snowstorms come through the areas, also longer closures to let burned trees fall, 'hot spots' expose themselves through flare-ups, let loosened soil 'slide', etc. Give it until next spring if needed. The NFS/NPS doesn't want to spend resources on rescues caused by injuries or stranded folks as the environment settles down after the fires.
The Forest Service will close an area that had a fire for safety reasons. Many of the trees that burned are still standing and are a hazard. Fire fighters that go into fire areas to do mop up work are injured or killed by falling trees and tree branches
The national forest service and whoever is in charge of these areas need to heavily fine anyone they catch hiking in closed areas. If anyone becomes lost in a closed area due to fire obscured paths need to be heavily fined after they are located. Private companies have no authority in these areas, and therefore should be heavily fined for inviting people to break the law. It is only when you hit people in the pocketbook that they seem to realize they have done something wrong. Not only should they be heavily fined, but anyone caught going into these areas should be barred from entering any national forest and not be give future permits to legally hike the back country. Anyone willing to break the law when they could hike elsewhere -- perhaps they are the very people who are starting a lot of these fires?
Check the Wildlands Project. Many closures are permanent. There are many permanently closed campgrounds just around where I live. Demanding that people be fined for hiking in closed areas? Should be tempered with demands that the closed areas be reopened in a reasonable amount of time. But that's not what the Wildlands Project is...
@@godandfamilyalways8149 some parts of the planet need to remain free from human interaction. It is good for the enviornment to set aside some regions and ban all human access.
What do you think? Should the non-burn areas be closed? Private companies allowed to invite hikers through? Would you hike Mt Baldy knowing it was in the closure area?
So even with an adventure pass you get a ticket if you park on the side. They're limiting attendance.
It also appears the government is hosing the public. The adventure pass doesn't count at Vincent gap and we need to pay extra because said government let a private party charge. These are our tax dollars 😅
@@dragonlo6514 - absolutely agree. The government is power tripping/out of control and this is ridiculous. The whole permit thing is BS in the first place as YES, we pay for these places already with tax dollars. I say hike away in large groups and push back against the totalitarianism where they are trying to double charge/limit us.
If an area is closed, it should be closed for EVERYONE. There is a reason why the area is closed for a time after a burn. If you operate a business in the area, too bad. Write off the loss. Its sux, but it comes with the territory. People should get fined heavily and mandated to do a certain number of hours trail work. Law enforcement should rather chase robbers and car thief in trail head areas.
Big NOPE
Hikers and bikers love the land and know to stay on the trail. We’re not locusts. The burn areas are going to regrow like they always do. It’s the natural circle of life for this area. The closures really feel like an overreaction. Almost like the person in charge needed to prove they are taking their responsibilities seriously.
@@stevenwolverton3822 - exactly! Totally agree with you. Some ppl get power trippy with their positions and some ppl just seem to like to be slaves. 😜 Others of us can think for ourselves, are responsible, have self control, and can self “manage” ourselves, tyvm! 😎👊🏽 “We are no locusts”. BOOM
I noticed that the Climb for Heroes Mt Baldy charity event is going to take place on Nov 9, 2024. I've donated to this charity, and I think the Climb for Heroes is a wonderful event. At the same time, if Mt Baldy can be open for this charity event, then Mt Baldy should be open for the public.
Agreed
...& I think the resort & ski lifts were back in operation also. Again, inconsistencies & favoritism...
Standard fare for the USFS closure order. They start with cut and paste text then add a few things if needed (e.g. bungee jumping business). During 2022/23 much of the Los Padres Forest on the central coast was closed for nearly a year because it rained (really, that's it). A few places had washed out backroads, but the closure was huge. Oddly, many of the good USFS personnel on the ground had not heard of the order and those that did seemed to dismiss the practical application of it.
Once again interesting and informative content in a well paced, get to the point format. Happy subscriber.
Appreciate that, thank you!
Good info. Tried to hit up Chantry this morning. Got there at 6:00am and the lot was already full with people starting to park on the shoulder. Guess this will have to be a day off weekday hike.
Yea always wondered why they did the gate there given people can camp, stay overnight in cabins, etc. I'll only do that on a weekday and waiting early for the gate to open. It's a drag.
I arrived at 6:20am today and parked at the Packing Station. They charge $25 and it helps keep the place open. I think it's worth it.
Great video HG, thanks for the info. Really miss hiking Baden Powell this time of year.
Thank you and Baden Powell just opened yesterday afternoon after I did this video - post and map here: ruclips.net/channel/UCeR8sH3N4MMnYKiSC1gcV5wcommunity?lb=UgkxM526JD2kVpOqtJFkfqeagFrhX5WVtW1a
@@Hikingguy Wow, great! Thanks and I hope to run into you on a hike someday.
@@Hikingguy Thanks for the info! I really like to hike Mt Baden Powell from the Crystal Lake Recreation Area.
@@Hikingguy great news about BP! I hadn't heard!!
So I live near big bear lake where lots of closures happened. The closures are only on the south side of the lake and the whole north side is still open. The area is SUFFERING because the general consensus is Big Bear is CLOSED BECAUSE OF THE FIRE. I’ve seen more non locals spreading this info while the locals are trying to tell people the area is open, a ghost town and if you like fall hiking with color changing leaves now is the time to go since hotels are slashing their rates.
Friends and I went to Chantry Flats in hopes to hike to the top of Mt Wilson today, only to find out the portion of the trail to the top was CLOSED. We hiked as far as we could (Sturtevant Camp) only to find out the trail was near impassable with debris from past storms. The word is, they are working on it and hope to have that section of the trail open by next summer....
Was it one of the trails marked green on the map from Sierra Madre SAR?
@@Hikingguy oh snaps, it was definitely red and I should've done my homework 😅 we had hoped to do the loop. Thanks for all your work!
That parking lot at Chantry Flats is so small that by the time I get out of the Valley and up to Santa Anita the lot is full. 50% of the time I've had to park in sketchy places and walk up to the trailhead, doing the 'hike before the hike'. And of course walking back down to your car afterwards, other people in cars see you, and want your spot and your Adventure Pass!!
Be aware that some closures of trails is due to man power that would usually be available for search and rescue being used for repairs elsewhere. This is true here in western NC on the Blue Ridge Parkway, along which the Mountains to the Sea trail runs. A fire fighter friend reported they recently shut down parkway repair teams to locate an injured hiker who ignored the closures. So, the more time spent tracking down illegal hikers means more time closed. In western NC, it also means precious time and personnel taken away from restoring clean water and electricity to hurricane-ravaged communities and more time people are forced to live in tents pitched beside the ruins of their homes.
Regarding Helene, the Foothills Trail in SC/NC, a popular thru hike in the Spartanburg area, is also closed indefinitely.
Thanks for sharing that, didn't know.
You always work hard to give us info . I greatly appreciate it. I am a new hiker🎉
I noticed the new mobile version of Garmin Explore is now out. I didn't get a chance to mess with it much yet unfortunately. Looking forward to your take and I'm hoping the route creation is greatly improved.
Stay tuned doing video now
There's a mountain in AZ that's been closed for over a decade because a wildfire damaged the area. I don't think walking down a single track trail is going to cause more damage. But what do I know I'm just a hiker.
The business exception is to avoid the potential of such closures becoming a "public taking" where the government would have to compensate business operators for the lost revenue. While it might be possible to argue that your loss of recreational activity is likewise a taking courts would be much less apt to award you any compensation.
Lost recreational opportunities is a real thing and the government should have to compensate the public. But the courts have become so expensive that only the rich can afford to use the legal system. I'd love it if there was a class action lawsuit against the forest service. Maybe we wouldn't win but it would cost the forest service money, a few bad forest managers might lose their jobs and the forest service would realize that there are consequences to screwing over the public. Businesses should join the class action lawsuit as well, they weren't officially shut down but much fewer people came because there were no recreational opportunities and you could make the argument business was taken.
Thank you for the info on Yosemite.
Closure isn't management!
Thanks for the updates!
I appreciated your note about finding lost trails on Caltopo. Have you ever looked into Fish Creek on the North side of Baldy?
I haven't poked around the creek area but years ago I did the North Backbone Trail. Will poke around the historic & sat at some point.
I think the Bridge To Nowhere bungee company actually owns the land. The LACo tax assessor page shows the land as privately owned (no FS or LACo FC)...
Re: iOS 18 and satellite coverage -- another YT'er tested it in bad cell areas and, while it worked fine of there was absolutely no coverage, if there was even one bar of coverage the satellite would not connect. I related to that since, on many occasions, I have had just one bar and still awful cell coverage. In an emergency, if that was the case, I would therefore not be able to connect via cell or satellite. Makes me glad I am keeping my Defy. (No longer have Garmin due to monthly cost)
I've found that to be an edge case. It happens occasionally. I've also tested satellite 911 in really remote areas that had no bars and the call has gone through. I think the "1 bar" thing has more to do with the iPhone trying to use iMessage instead of old SMS - I'll do a followup video to address this because I'm seeing a lot of info that hasn't jibed with my experience.
And good move keeping the Defy, between that and the iPhone you should be good. Hiker just got rescued using a Defy, I posted the story on my community feed.
Some things you can do to resolve the "1 bar" edge case:
messaging reliability:
Disable 5G: In weak signal areas, 5G might not work as reliably as 4G (LTE). You can switch your iPhone to 4G or LTE only:
Go to Settings > Cellular > Cellular Data Options > Voice & Data.
Select LTE or 4G instead of 5G Auto or 5G On.
Enable Wi-Fi Calling: If you’re connected to Wi-Fi, enabling Wi-Fi calling will route your text messages (and calls) through your Wi-Fi network instead of relying on your cellular connection.
Go to Settings > Cellular > Wi-Fi Calling and toggle Wi-Fi Calling on This iPhone.
Enable SMS fallback: If your iPhone is trying to send an iMessage but the network isn’t strong enough, it may fail. Ensure that your phone is allowed to send as SMS when iMessage is unavailable:
Go to Settings > Messages and turn on Send as SMS. This will automatically send a text message as SMS instead of iMessage if the data connection is weak.
Turn off Data Roaming (if not needed): If you're in an area with poor coverage and you're roaming, you might want to toggle roaming settings:
Go to Settings > Cellular > Cellular Data Options and turn off Data Roaming if you're not traveling internationally or if roaming is unnecessary.
@@Hikingguy Wow - great ideas! Thanks Cris for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. Very much appreciated!
Friend of mine hiked baldy about a week ago. AMA.
The closures seem so arbitrary. Since 2020, NFS have done their level best to restrict access to our public lands. Its very frustrating.
@@stuartb9194 public land does not mean that any member of the public has an inherent right to access it, it means that it is maintained in the public interest. If restricting access makes preventing forest fires far easier for the NFS, it's the right call.
@@noggin6870 You are absolutely wrong and the NFS is out of control. They have exceeded their statutory authority for years and hopefully, that will come to an end soon.
@@DPM-dp9on you do realize the main job of the forest service is to... manage the forest however they see fit? Including setting aside parts of national forests for industrial logging? Their single main goal is preserving the forest because it's *useful.* if letting people onto the land endangers that, the they can restrict public access whenever they want. National forests aren't parks, they're resource tiles.
@noggin6870 "what kind of American are you?"
@@stuartb9194 - the kind that likes to be “managed/lorded over. I can guess which political party to which this person ascribes. Slaves vs free men is an ongoing issue now in America! 😜
Good job
Sweet, perfect time to ride up all these trails with my E-dirtbike! 😂
With the winds that came up over the weekend the bridge fire flared up That is why the fire areas are still closed
The only areas that should be closed are areas that need restoration. What is going on??
The areas need restoration.
Laziness.
@tombarr949 so you think that they are too lazy to hike up and check so they just close everything? If that's the case, they need to get out there and do their job. This is not acceptable.
Yes! Absolutely undamaged, unburned areas should NOT be closed. I know some trails are safe & should be reopened. There are already too many ppl squeezed into too few spaces. Just when areas were opening up again & growing back here they are closed again for who knows how long this time. This is nothing but punitive. Sometimes I think the FS likes it this way. I moved to Modjeska Cyn to hike the Santa Ana Mtns. I cannot endure another 5-yr closure. If Cleveland & the USFS cannot manage a tiny Forest such as the Trabuco District some other entity should take it over. Who's bright idea was it to allow the Marines to come in & blow up the remaining check dams on Trabuco Creek??? & stop allowing development to creep up the foothills!!!......
Can you do a story on Gaia GPS and how it’s gone downhill since Outside bought them?
Workin' on it now
@@Hikingguy perfect. I’ve been with them since 2016 and it’s gotten pretty bad.
@@wolfeadventures I'll be interested in watching that. Gaia has always been my #1 app for hiking but my annual subscription ended last month & with the price increase I couldn't justify paying for it again so I am about to start watching How to Use CalTopo / CalTopo for Beginners. 👍
Does anyone have ANY idea when the hiker dorms at Phantom Ranch will reopen? They closed for the pandemic, and then stayed closed because of work on the sewage treatment plant. Any word on how that's going, timeline, etc.?
Probably permanent, as part of the Wildlands Project. Just veiled under one excuse or another. There are several permanently closed campgrounds just around where I live.
Any news about the Florida Trail?
I did some light research and didn't find anything. Guessing it's probably not in good shape. Will report when I hear anything.
If an area is closed then its closed very simple really. we have areas here in Canada that get closed off for fire risk or wildlife areas etc the signs are very clear, $10,000 fine to start and goes up from there, so you chose. wait a few weeks for the risk to clear or pay the fine.
Coming from a place where I have the constitutional right to freely access nature and where all restrictions of public access need to be well justified and as limited as possible, both in terms of space and time, such broad closures of whole areas always strike me as being very odd.
Yes and YES!!🙂
I was at Icehouse on Thursday morning. Two dudes pulled up next to me and asked if this was San Antonio. I responded no, that mountain is closed. They asked what would happen, I said get fined. They laughed at that and proceeded down the road to Baldy. They didn't look hiking ready, so maybe they just wanted to go look. But it really bothered me. Whether or not I think the closures are ok, I'm going to respect the decisions that are made.
Wrong decision in my opinion..but you are free to decide that. "They" don't know much......unfortunately
Yea my hunch tells me that a big part of closing Baldy is to save the FS/SAR a bunch of legwork dealing with non-hikers doing that hike, especially once the snow arrives.
I’m not familiar with the situation being an east coast guy but, if I determined the closure was BS i would probably hike it regardless.
After the Holy Fire, they had a ranger sitting out their all the time for months, maybe years on the road leading in. They just opened Holy Jim Trail before the Airport Fire which also appeared to be handled with a "let it burn" strategy like the Holey Fire.
@@NYEXPRESS56 that's not a call you should feel qualified to make for yourself.
@@noggin6870 I think I’ll be the one to determine if I have an opinion. You’re being fairly myopic by thinking one cannot visualize a similar situation elsewhere and what one would do in said situation.
@@NYEXPRESS56 in general my stance is that, unless you are actually professionally trained in dealing with a certain situation, you should always follow the guidelines provided by the people who are.
The opinion of a non-expert has no value. That's how we got people who stopped vaccinating kids, was us mistakenly telling people that they have a right to an opinion in cases where they absolutely should not have one.
@@noggin6870 dude god read better. The whole post was asking for peoples opinions. He didn’t ask for professionals opinions. Damn some of you posters are whacked. Go bother someone else would you please. Ps-how’d that covid vaccine work out? Inject that crap into babies who had no issues with Covid at all. That was YOUR professionals hard at work. You gotta be a liberal.
Non-burn area closures are government over-reach! The people should not stand for it! If it's a public area, it belongs to the people!! Unless it's an active burn area where someone could actually get hurt, it should not be closed!
Furthermore, there is an epidemic of obesity and mental health problems. Going outside and hiking alleviates these problems, and therefore hiking should be encouraged, not restricted and made illegal in non-burn areas.
I do not agree that the bungee folks can operate in a no hiking area and hikers get fined . No reality here , it’s $$$ for the bungee company . I thought the Bridge Fire actually started in the Bridge to Nowhere area??
Yes, it started right by the trailhead
USFS governs and manages by closures. Why? It’s Cheap and easy. Print up an order and post it online and at a trailhead.
You should do a science experiment for what happens when you poop in the ground
The don't build scientific equipment powerful enough for my poop
People are hard on nature. Look at Yosemite Valley. They turned it into Disney Land.
Illegal summits. There are some times where it has a baffling reasoning why it would be closed. Closing for events or allowing an event despite the closure is not okay.
Chantry Flat. Closures happen that's okay. Roadside parking is an ugly situation with no easy solution.
Seasonal workers, I'm not okay with the way they are classifying this. You should be eliminating seasonal workers because you managed to find a reason to retain those said workers and upgrading them to also continue work into all seasons. Which not at all the case given the fact that most of the news I've heard about it is that it is just happening.
@@Xhadp the forest service would love to keep seasonal workers year round. That isn't free though, and they've become and more starved for cash lately. So has the NPS, which is why we're seeing seasonal closures and fewer backcountry permits get awarded in a lot of the non-major parks.
Preservation, responsible preservation, isn't cheap.
Closures might suck but it's not a bad idea for at least a few parts of nature to get a break from human activities once in a while in this way at least.
Yeah...nature desperately needs a break from people walking by. LOL
Only in the land of the free can you illegally summit a mountain.
Thanks for your informative videos! Any idea when Cactus to Clouds trail will reopen?
No idea but I have seen folks are doing it despite the closure.
If you're not in physical danger, from fires, etc., then go for it. If you can come into this country illegally, I can hike illegally.
Everyone wants a trail, nobody wants to build or maintain them. So trails stay closed. Mountain bikers were a big source of trail building muscle but e-bikes have split the community and the clubs that used to organize trail work are disbanding.
Part of the general rot of the country’s institutions.
Trails are still popping up out of no where in South OC. Thanks MTB community.
E-bikers are nothing but pussy soy boys. I am a hiker/runner. I know I am at least twice their age & I'm on these trails under my own power. How are they not ashamed that they can't ride a normal bike? I am embarrassed for them. They don't belong on trails. Esp trails that are posted 'no e- or pedal-assisted bikes' or 'no motorized vehicles', as they are motorized....
I applaud these people that illegally hike, a national forest should never be closed. Its wrong to punish everyone because a few bad apples and I no longer support the park service/forest service because even though I haven't done anything wrong I've been punished too many times. The park/forest service are doing an excellent job of making enemies/shooting themselves in the foot. Instead of closing the forest the park/forest service should hire a few more rangers to enforce the more sensible rules and give big fines to the worst offenders. I know they would only catch a small fraction of the rule breakers but I think making an example of the worst offenders would go a long way towards motivating others to behave. In my home state of Washington large areas of forest remained closed even after a 2 to 4 inch rainstorm had put out all of the fires, the forest service is using the excuse that alot of dead trees will fall without warning and its not safe. We all know that the forest service only has the budget to clear a tiny fraction of these dead trees, trees will be falling for many years and if I walk through the forest not lingering in any one spot and don't camp under a dead tree the chance of a tree falling on me is much lower than the chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the trailhead. I don't trust the forest service to open the area in a timely manner. I get that when there are alot of other fires the forest service might not have the resources to rescue me but that's okay just put a sign that says you are entering at you're own risk we can't save you but don't close the forest and I will decide for myself if the risk is worth it.
Someone else said they may also be worried about non-native seeds being spread by hikers and overlanders into burnt areas and possibly causing problems during the phase where everything is trying to grow back. I see a lot of Italian Thistle in places where I'd never seen it 15 years ago.
You have been punished many times. That one sentence says more about you than the park-forest service. I am an old man who is a long-distance backpacker, backcountry skier and in my younger days a fairly high-end rock climber. When I was 18, I camped to close to water, and I was ask to move my tent. I told the ranger I was to exhausted. I was so he moved it for me. I have hiked thousands of miles and had no issues with the people you seem to have issues with. Maybe just maybe you are part of the issue.
@@camphikelivecalifornia3864 So are they going to close the forest for the next few decades? its going to many many years before the native plants grow back and I don't think closing the area for many years is realistic. In some areas the native plants will not grow back no matter how much time you give them because the climate has gotten hotter and drier. Where you used to have pine trees you might now have chaparral or grassland.
@@mtadams2009 Let me give you a few examples of how I have been punished for something I didn't do. There are big parts of Washington where someone left a pile of trash and no one is allowed to access the area for years, they don't have any rangers patrolling the area wrighting tickets they just close it. In Mt rainier Park you can only camp in designated areas which is absurd there are plenty of flat spots in the forest where you won't do any harm. Again rather than send a ranger out to ticket the few idiots that try to camp in the middle of a flowering meadow they just close the area to everyone. I once had a ranger question my bear canister and tell me next time i needed to have a heavier more expensive bear canister. Excuse me I have been using this bear canister for 20 years without a problem and its heavy enough. In North Cascades Park someone started a 500 acre fire and they closed more than half the park and kept it closed even after there was a multi-inch rainstorm. The fire did not cross any road/trail yet good people were still denied access. Finally closing an entire forest because of 1 person is just crazy.
The Mt Baldy Ski Hut Trail didn't burn. Neither did the Devil's Backbone trail. The Climb for Heroes charity event is scheduled for Mt Baldy on Nov 9, 2024. If Mt Baldy can be open for a charity event, then it should be open for the public. Furthermore, there is an epidemic of obesity and poor mental health. Hiking can alleviate these problems. So access to these hiking trails is important for the public.
It always puzzles me that some people believe their judgement (without access to the data that was available to those who make rules) is superior to those charged with protecting. That rules are for others, that they are always the exception, always the entitled ones who know best. And won’t make the effort to find a way to work to change the rules. SMH
Do you always believe government workers and politicians have better judgement than you do? These are the people that are supposed to control these fires and they have become less effective over the years.
Bungee ok. You? No. 🎉😂❤
Should I be the brave soul who gets ticketed and sues the National Park Service for public access?
It would be a good story
Yes
When you drive your vehicle into the forest, your wheels are loaded with weed seeds and other polutants that are not good for the natural and appropriate wild flora and fauna to recover after a fire. It takes time for regrowth to occur to where it is safe again for people coming in.
@@tigerlillybell75 not even just wheels, your hiking shoes are an incredible biohazard to fragile ecosystems.
@@noggin6870 I don't think you have spent much time in the wild or even tried to maintain a lawn. God made this environment incredibly resilient if you look at with open eyes and a head free of propaganda. The environment turns everything into fertilizer...some of it takes time but nature wins.
Maybe they are closing places to preserve manpower elsewhere? I don't see why it's even a question, obviously you shouldn't break the law.
Yea that's what I think. They're closing spots that they think will potentially drain resources in case of an emergency. I think ideally they'd love to keep Baldy closed all winter and probably will.
@@HikingguyWhat does it mean to fully staff a mountain range? The manpower argument will lead to full closures of entire national forests (again).
@@matthewharper4605 I guess it means having the resources available to deal with emergencies. Maybe a PSAR person at a popular trailhead like Baldy as do at the Grand Canyon. Maybe even crews to maintain trails. I don't think it's brain surgery and I don't think it's such an extreme all-or-nothing proposition.
The NFS is out of control and forgets that federal lands belong to all Americans. Hopefully the Chevron decision will allow for better oversight of this heavy handed agency and open them up to lawsuits.
That's not what federal land means. It just means that the government maintains it in the public interest. For most federal land, that doesn't mean giving the public unlimited access to it.
@@noggin6870 The federal government acts in its own interest. If you read the reasoning behind the formation of the NFS and the Park Service it was to preserve natural areas for all Americans to enjoy. They were created to manage these areas to make them accessible, not control and regulate them to death. Nor were they authorized to charge fees, issue permits or setup any other regulatory obstacles. Don’t be a sheep. Question authority. It’s the American thing to do.
@@DPM-dp9on the park service is for enjoyment. The NFS is for managing resources. They preserve forests not because they're nice for the public to visit, but because they are useful. If the public endangers that use, the public is removed from the location. As they should be.
I'm not being a sheep, I just actually spent two seconds thinking about things other than what I personally would want and am not terminally entitled.
The NW0 disagrees.
@@DPM-dp9on Unfortunately in places like populated Southern California the national forests are being 'loved to death' just due to the volume of people coming into them so there have to be some controls. And with the slow erosion of its budget and staff its getting harder and harder for the NFS/NPS to 'police' the area. Obvious stuff like tagging, trail cutting, off trail hiking and MTB-ing, trail running, trash from all the different groups; too many people chasing too little forest area. As for the recent fires I can see keeping some areas closed pending flare-ups (due to Santa Ana winds) until the first significant rainstorms/snowstorms come through the areas, also longer closures to let burned trees fall, 'hot spots' expose themselves through flare-ups, let loosened soil 'slide', etc. Give it until next spring if needed. The NFS/NPS doesn't want to spend resources on rescues caused by injuries or stranded folks as the environment settles down after the fires.
The Forest Service will close an area that had a fire for safety reasons. Many of the trees that burned are still standing and are a hazard. Fire fighters that go into fire areas to do mop up work are injured or killed by falling trees and tree branches
The national forest service and whoever is in charge of these areas need to heavily fine anyone they catch hiking in closed areas. If anyone becomes lost in a closed area due to fire obscured paths need to be heavily fined after they are located. Private companies have no authority in these areas, and therefore should be heavily fined for inviting people to break the law. It is only when you hit people in the pocketbook that they seem to realize they have done something wrong. Not only should they be heavily fined, but anyone caught going into these areas should be barred from entering any national forest and not be give future permits to legally hike the back country. Anyone willing to break the law when they could hike elsewhere -- perhaps they are the very people who are starting a lot of these fires?
So you love having your freedom taken away - love following rules and getting hosed by the government? Got it 🤦🏻♀
Check the Wildlands Project. Many closures are permanent. There are many permanently closed campgrounds just around where I live. Demanding that people be fined for hiking in closed areas? Should be tempered with demands that the closed areas be reopened in a reasonable amount of time. But that's not what the Wildlands Project is...
@@godandfamilyalways8149 some parts of the planet need to remain free from human interaction. It is good for the enviornment to set aside some regions and ban all human access.