You did not show that in the first video but your son did it in this one :) Actually you are testing electronic locking diff here in this test and X-Mode is primarily built for better EDC speed and engagement...
Actually, you don't need to climb there again to test all of these scenarios.. you know diagonal roller tests, right? Just make a diagonal roller test, but in a very steep street, similar slope in that stage 3... And then we'll see what happens in each iterations.. Iteration 1: vdc: on xmode:off (default) Iteration 2: vdc: off xmode: off (you tried this) Iteration 3: vdc: on xmode: on Iteration 4: vdc off xmode: on (the best recipe) So, grab two rollers, find a very steeeeep street in your town, if there is one; then run these iterations...
This famous video is the answer to why you should test with rollers not on flat surface, instead, on a STEEP one: ruclips.net/video/jkiv-bWbLIo/видео.html&
I can tell you after two years with my outback, that while it's capable off the road, it's NOT a Wrangler or purpose built rock crawler. However, it's almost unparalleled on snow and ice, which are a far more common issue for most drivers. It pulls my boat (and gets great traction on wet boat ramps), Hauls all the camping gear, is comfortable on long drives, averages 28.5 mpg all around over the last 6k miles, has loads of safety features found on more expensive vehicles, and will handle 90% of the off road driving that dedicated off roaders will do. In short, it will do all the off roading most people will want, while being a far superior every day driver when compared to more potent off road vehicles.
@@danieljay8009 Too true. My F350 FX4 Superduty Diesel is more capable offroad than my Outback 3.6R in several ways... but I take my Subie more places than the truck because it's cheaper on many levels, not just MPGs.
the thing is too that this subaru still has an open center diff, essentially. with these cvts and automatics you can add a switch to 'lock' the center diff basically to give you better offroad ability(the transfer case already has all the tech for it, normally its controlled by the computer but manual is best offroad). without that it oscillates the power front to back a bit too often which can stop you on some obstacles or require you to get more momentum.
The Subie is - in stock configuration - a soft-roader for sure. It's not designed to compete with a Jeep rock crawler or that Titan 4WD. But - hey - it did it.
The point is that this stage of the test doesn't require a "rock crawler" to complete it. Many other stock all wheel drive cars made it up including a Mitsubishi CVT, Subaru not what it used to be
Huh... So Subaru is "not what it used to be"...? Name one car maker that is. Every manufacturer will change to keep up - it's a case of "adapt or die". Subaru - a small maker - has made changes to their products over the years to be less quirky and to be more mainstream. That's not a bad thing. Other small makers - Mazda and Mitsubishi for example - have also changed. And what really sets Subaru apart from pretty much everybody else, is that Subaru's AWD system is designed from the start as an AWD system and not some FWD system with an added drive shaft to a (now) driven rear axle. With the exception of the BRZ, they start life as AWD and are better than just about any other AWD system out there. Are they rock crawlers? No. But then again, neither is anybody else - especially stock off the lot - with the exception of a few Jeep models.
@@LMCDRM Again, no one is saying a subaru is a rock crawler. The point is that Subaru advertises themselves to be a "go anywhere" vehicle. But in this case, other manufacturers beat the subaru hands down. Fact, I own a non-cvt subaru with its own headgasket issues, but I would not buy a new one simply because a CVT subaru dressed up in all its external visual upgrades does not mean better capability. CVTs are not meant to slip. It means they sacrificed their capability for improved gas mileage. Sure, maybe nothing is like it used to be and it was inevitable for Subaru to do this but, for example, Mazda did not go CVT, neither did KIA or Hyundai. Look at the abomination that is the new "RS" Impreza, it's got the 2.5 but only comes in CVT, not even a manual option.
@@drivewayhero Eh .. not so much.... The CVT is not slipping. Instead, the ECU and TCU are pulling power instead of slipping the transmission; the power is being applied to the wheel/wheels with traction to move the vehicle forward. There are many others that have head gasket problems... look at Dodge/Chrysler, look at Fiat, look at others. Mazda did not go CVT (yet?) and neither have many others. But then again, more than a few have. So CVTs are not a sign of the apocalypse ... They're a means to an end. A CVT is better in a lot of situations because it will use the best ratio for just about any given situation. Instead of having 5 or 6 or 8 ratios, it has a near-infinite set of ratios to use. As for the RS - it's all about what you do or do not want. Many makers are going away from a manual transmission and a lot of safety features are not able to be used with a manual transmission. For example, if a car does emergency braking, the computer systems work in conjunction with the engine and the transmission and the rest to stop the vehicle. The manual transmission will not be able to downshift as needed to keep the engine from stalling with the loss of fuel to the engine. But that's a discussion for another time.
@@LMCDRM The CVT is most definitely slipping because you would not get a warning if it was not and potential damage if you continue. I understand perfectly well what a CVT does no need to explain and the fact that it finds the perfect ratio to the engine speed. That's what kills it for me. That's when driving becomes a bore. that's the reason why lotta sports cars enthusiast cars actual driving cars that are fun to drive don't use the CVT. And the fact that they put paddle shifters on CVT transmissions to "simulate" "gear shifts" it's about the same abomination as piping in synthetic sound into the cabin instead of just listening to the engine, which manufactures have resorted to as well such as the new supra. Lane assists, start/stop systems, "eye sight" looking st your face the whole time and babying you. Pretty much no one will know how to drive soon.
@@MacTechG4 dont make outback manual anymore. My 07 was stick. I tried to buy a manual. Unfortunately the gear ratios subaru picks for a lot of cars are a bit too tight. The sti has to be in 3rd gear to hit 60mph. And on the highway at 80mph it's north of 3500rpm maybe 4000rpm.
I'm a Subaru enthusiast and thought during the previous stage 3 Gold mine hill test that you were subtly trashing the Outback's reputation. You've proven to be honest in showing this revised test. You made it clear that Subaru wasn't working with you guys but you were able to invest in buying the car to test it for the benefit of the audience. You've earned my respect. I appreciated seeing the limits of the Outback. Norm from Montreal, Canada
Whenever you drive off road, you change the driving aids accordingly. That might be low ratio or locking a diff. Turning off the tc and x mode is the same exercise. You 2 didn't do the test well. Of course a 4wd is better off road than an awd. But an awd beats the 4wd hands down on the Rd in all conditions and every aspect and that's what most people want. I don't own a subaru, but have a forester which climbed steep hills covered in ice like itvwas dry. Other cars were abandoned and had to ferry people around who couldn't understand how easy it was for me with just all season tyres on.
I have made similar hills in my 2015 2.5 Forester. Traction control tries to kill engine power to keep traction, so I turn it off. The system will still sense a spinning wheel and stop it to drive one with traction. I have climbed over water bars at an angle and had opposing corner wheels lifted, and still it made it. For a 32mpg vehicle with passenger tires it equates itself pretty well, considering that the truck with off road tires couldn't make it until you engaged the locker.
THIS is exactly why I own a 2012 3.6R with a 5 speed true automatic. My car would pull up this thing like it's nothing. I think Subaru made a mistake when they went CVT only in 2013.
The CVT used with the 3.6 is the "HCVT" TR690 which is a much stronger transmission than the TR580 used with the 2.5 Outback. Its actually really nice transmission. The TR690 is strong, responsive, and it will shift torque harder. The TR580 is basically a Crosstrek transmission
As an avid Outback fan, I'll definitely agree, it's a "wagon" first that has the ability to go off road if you want to. But it's meant for trails, mud, even shallow rivers. I've also heard that the CVT and Symmetrical All Wheel Drive system are plenty capable, but the computer system is what tends to hold the car back. Weirdly enough.
Because CVT's a prone to damage in those situations and CVT replacement is not cheap, not even at factory cost under warranty, thus Subaru (knowing it's customer habits) has programmed the computer for an extra layer of protection of that CVT even though it means reducing the cars capabilities.
I noticed in one of the interior shots that you're doing it with the transmission in D. This really should be done in 1 or L. Telling a CVT to stay on it's lowest ratio is a lot more important than with a fixed ratio transmission.
This wont change the gear ratio which is what is dragging the RPMs so low that there is just not enough torque. Watch this vid at 7 min mark. You will see that it does not change a thing in power delivery D vs L. This car is not set up properly for this type of off roading. ruclips.net/video/AbYvOiAiwSw/видео.html
Richard Goins watched the video you linked and this video auto played. ruclips.net/video/vbMB97i-Xf4/видео.html I’m guessing we could trade videos all day. I live near Bennett Springs MO I take my 18 Outback down trails worse then this to go camping. I always love the look on my friends face when I pull up in my Outback. They are always so amazed a station wagon can make it where there Jeeps and trucks can go. I have 3 Subaru’s! 98 Forester (my first car over 300k still running but I’ve retired her from anything more then groceries) a 18 Outback and 18 Legacy. Only thing I’ve changed from stock on all 3 of my Subaru’s is the tires. I think what we are seeing is a combination of tires and the driver knowing how to use the automobile. Put me in a 4x4 and I get stuck. I’m the first to admit I suck at 4x4 anything. Put me in my Forester or Outback and I’m good to go. I will say my 98 Forester is WAY better then my 18’s. My 98 is a tank and the 18s feel breakable compared to my 98 but two definitely capable.
It's silly to think that you are going to tackle the Rubicon with a Subaru from the show room floor. With that said my wife's next vehicle will be a Subaru Forester. It's a great vehicle for daily life and occasional mild adventure. Such as taking kayaks up a dirt road to a mountain lake or a safe drive to the ski hill in bad weather. The lack of power to the wheels when it can't get traction is for me a plus. That's what keeps its CVT dependable and from destroying itself vs. say the Nissan CVT. Thanks for the great content you guys put out.
I am glad you guys continue to test soft roaders. It is really nice for those of us who off road once a month and don't want to put up with an off roader for the rest of the time. My 2013 rav4 can make it up stage 3 btw.
Better review and explanation, on what Subaru is currently for. I didn't purchase mine for going off road. I bought it for country dirt roads and winter time, for those (UK) roads that don't get gritted etc. Am I correct in saying, that for permanent AWD, this has the best MPG? I bought the XV/Crosstreck, as it was the cheapest permanently AWD system and Android auto (so I could use Waze/Google Maps). Look forward to you testing it in the snow.
I don't see the point of the Crosstreck vs say an impreza - they are more expensive to lease and sorry but they look funny - of course this goes against 99% of public opinion because they sell a shite load here in Colorado - what am I missing ????
+Nick Bradshaw - I learned not to see videos of "The Fast Lane Car", and not to believe nothing of what these liars and obvious Subaru haters say. I have seen 2018 (and whichever other year) Subaru Outback's climb and pass through much harder obstacles than the one in this shameful anti-Subaru propaganda video.
I own a Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru outback, I'm very surprised at the things I can get the Subaru through and 90% of the time it's just finding the right line to take. That being said I don't treat it like the jeep and take it on black rated off-road trails. But it can get us down an nasty dirty road out into the desert when I don't want to spend massive amounts of $$$ on gas for the jeep lol.
The problem is that it is a soft roader , if you punished the transmission like that too often , you would be asking for trouble , and on this particular test it had one light weight guy sitting it. Load it up and do the test again , and it is a fair bet it would have failed.
@BlueElk As someone who owns a Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru Outback if you say jeep is a solid offroader then I'd have to call my suby a soft roader, nothing wrong with that. 90% of the time it's the driver who understands what line to pick in different situations. Not sure why everyone's up in arms about it being called a soft roader, it's still fantastic in mud and snow and dirt.
mikldude I’m not sure how being a “soft roader” is a problem. Everybody spends more than 80% of their time driving on the road. I’ve never heard of anyone who had to commute to work by crossing a desert or rock crawling up a mountain. I’d rather spend my time in a comfortable, safe, and quiet vehicle while on the road. I love these comments that are completely illogical.
exactly. I took my 2016 Forester on the 100 mile White Rim Trail in Canyonland NP. Did it in one day -- no camping overnight. Had many others with 4Runners totally surprised that I was able to do the full trail with a CVT Forester. They were totally amazed. I'm amazed what the Forester is capable of. They should have given the Outback in this video a set of ATV tires. The all season tires equipped on the Outback was a huge deficit for this kind of a climb.
That's funny I've also got a wrangler, and I just bought the missus an '18 Outback. The kids used to want to ride in the Jeep every day, now it's the Subie...ouch.
They nailed it. It can do easy dirt roads, but it's not as dedicated an off-roader as a real one. It's a more a car than an SUV, so if your off-roading isn't that challenging (and it usually isn't, here in the flat lands), it's great. As good in the snow as anything, until it's deep enough to hang up the car. DAMHIK.
Here actually we are not discussing if Subaru is off-roader or not. Everybody knows that Subaru is not a hard-offroader like a Merc. G-Wagon or Land Rover Defender etc. The problem is that Subaru, in this video, is suffering A LOT compared to other soft-roader vehicles like Volvo XC40 and etc.
Same. As someone who owns a 09 Wrx and 15 fxt... I’m not buying another Subaru unless they stop softening their cars. I would love to see Subaru copy the Toyota cvt and put an actual gear for low speed take offs, then send you a car to test
These guys are the ones that violated their contract. Furthermore they can’t drive and Subaru is well aware of these facts. Subaru owes them nothing and if you watch the attached video you will see that Roman is lying through his teeth and there is nothing wrong with the cvt. ruclips.net/video/FW9OB0NARdk/видео.html
JP no offense, but I own a 15fxt, brother owns a 15 wrx. Neither car will get off the line hard, the reason is well documented (cvt belt binds up at low ratios). The Wrx is an awd sports car that can’t launch. In both cars you can feel the ecu cut power when floored from a dead stop. I’ll repeat that, you can feel it in the butt dyno. Subaru needs to fix this.
Just checking here... The Titan needed to have the diff locked to get up the 'Hard' line, and you had it in 4lo? Did you at least try it in 4Hi? Does this not mean that all of the vehicles that made it with 'mere' AWD are actually quite impressive compared to a true 4X4 that needed to have the diff locked? What about all of the 4X4 trucks that don't come with a locker? I am fully aware (after owning 10 different Subarus) that a 4X4 with proper ground clearance, locking diffs, etc is going to go places a Subaru can't. But c'mon. A crossover (by definition) is not in the same class - if they can do any of these things with reasonable confidence, they are fulfilling their purpose. One more note: the bit in the manual about X-Mode helping with hills and such is no doubt referring to situations where there is low grip, not completely uneven surfaces. Think of a snow-covered hill that is not completely rutted out. Or refer to the pictures in their advertising - they don't show it tackling situations like the Goldmine stage 3 'hard' route.
How bout: trade in CVT Subaru that is falsely advertised for a capable off-terrain vehicle if that's what you need. Subaru is just a grocery hauler now masquerading as an off-terrain car
subaru giving a cvt on such a good awd system is like hiring usain bolt to run a 100m race for you but giving him brand new leather-soled shoes that are a few sizes too tight
The achilles heel with the Outback is that CVT. Throttle input is reduced electronically to reduce strain on the transmission. I experienced this with a Versa CVT on a slippery hill in the winter. The engine cut the power to keep the wheels from spinning, even with the traction control switched off.
I had a Nissan Altima with a CVT in Chicago. If you got stuck in a parking lot with snow, it was a nightmare. Men pushing the back of the car, yelling “Give it more gas!” And me whimpering “It’s floored.” Never a CVT again. Never.
I know Toyota SUVs suck at off road, but I heard Toyota was moving to a starting gear for their CVTs, if Subaru did the same would this not help in this situation if CVT is really the Achilles heel? So basically how Toyota does it is they have a standard CVT and then they have a gear that drops in just for take off purposes once its ready to go into CVT action where pulleys adjust the gear is lifted away. If Subaru did this then they would basically be haveing a traditional transmission with 1 gear. Braking traction control like what is being done in the subaru robs power vs. a locker, plus you have elevation robbing power, plus I wouldn't go to your extreme with this type of car either. I think some offroading sure, but I agree this is too much for this vehicle.
Good job getting that Outback up that hill. To make the tires spin, of course have traction control off, but also hit the shifter into “M” by flicking it “left” from drive. Then you can lock in the first gear ratio and it won’t try to up shift, it will let the tires spin. That Nissan Titan had a hell of a time getting up Gold Mine hill. If it wasn’t for that rear locker, It didn’t look like it would make it. But only the top, or near top of the line trucks have lockers. So 75-90% of 4x4 trucks out there don’t have lockers. Let’s say only 30% of trucks out on the road are 4x4. That’s not a lot of trucks out there climbing this hill! The cheapest Impreza has the same Subaru AWD system. They might not all have Xmode, but you’ve just proved it isn’t needed. Thanks for the Retry guys!!! I might be critical of TFL on rare occasions but not disrespectful. I appreciate their work and I’m a long time subscriber. Thanks TFL!
Yeah, a modern AWD will blow away a classic 4WD transfer case to open diffs any day of the week. Mainly do to spinning wheel braking (see jeep renegade) and variable tourque. But if you *have* the lockers with a 4WD, it's all over. Not even CLOSE.
Eric Swenson I can’t argue there. You have to have some serious 💰 💰 💰 to get a modern truck with lockers. They don’t offer them on the low or mid trims.
Lets admit CVTs are not for offroad. Its for fuel economy side. I have a dual range transmission on my impreza its capable on dirt road. I bet it can perform better than CVTs.
My Outback has the H6 in it and I've had it on two wheels many times and it climbs right through with no problem (20% grade). Of course I have the five speed automatic transmission and I keep traction control turned "on" (no XMode in my year). But I'm glad to see you trying suggestions from your viewers.
I get the "lets not test mementum" but at the same time releasing throttle at the wrong times was frustrating me. The top of that hill could have been made much easier by using traction, momentum, and still reasonably slow, but not stopping on purpose every time you get a roll going.
I've had my '17 Forester XT in X-Mode stuck in the snow on all four wheels, and it acted like all 4 wheels were locked and the engine just growled with zero motion. I forgot to try TC Off, next time
At least for the 2.5, it seems like Subaru is more concerned about preventing damage to the drivetrain rather than allowing full output capability. I have the 3.6 and it comes with a high-torque CVT. When I turn off traction control via the button on left of steering column, I'm able to get more RPMs in low/no traction situations vs this specific 2.5. It seems to be programming problem on Subaru's part. I say 3.6R all the way!
CVTS have garbage torque.. Torque is the low end power to the wheels that is needed for low speed situations when the tires spin. I think any company that uses Cvt will not see my money..
@@tjl8884 No doubt you don't buy a CVT if you're looking for torque, but if you want one of the smoothest drive trains without a 10-speed auto, CVT is the way to go.
Just got a letter in the mail the other day from Subaru stating our 2.5 Ouback CVT is now covered for 100,000K miles. I've read rumblings about how the CVT wasn't quite ready for the road, but now it seems as they're admitting it.
That was interesting, thanks. I'm on my 2nd Outback and just recently bought the 2019 2.5L. It was a little disappointing to see it struggle like it did. Seems the CVT couldn't output enough where it needed to. Although I don't do off roading, it's good to know the limitations. That being said they handle winter driving nicely. Thanks again !!
Oh it would kill a modern one. I remember when they were sold as farm implements because there were no dealerships. They had low range and a proper transfer case.
TFL deserves a big round of applause for this. They heard what people were saying and were man enough to try it again. And they showed the results even when it made it up. That was great!
For this application with an non-manual transmission, the best system Subaru had was the VTD system used with the 4EAT in the WRX and 5EAT found in the Outback XT, Outback 3.0R, and Legacy GT. Of course they also had a rear LSD so that both rear wheels would turn. However, the WRX STI not only has the DCCD system which has better power distribution control than the VTD system, it also has a front LSD as well as the rear LSD - so overall it would be the best transmission for 1-2 wheel traction surfaces. Bottom line, mechanical all wheel drive systems beat computerized "send power to wheels with traction" systems for slow and difficult (1-2 wheel) traction situations. Fancy electronic systems with whatever type of gear/non-gear transmission are better for wet or icy roads and allow for better fuel mileage. Choose one for what you want/need to do.
One very funny thing to me about all wheel drive vehicle videos is how few of the makers and experts bother to measure the % grade along the test route at the critical points and anywhere, even crudely, which is incredibly easy to do - just takes a couple of minutes . Now you can't say it doesn't matter because that's up to the viewer of the video , not the producer. Just provide the information , and let them decide that. It's basically impossible to determine grade from looking at a video and incredibly easy to do when you're there doing the testing.. I asked the maker of one video what the % grade was, and they responded 12%, probably because they heard somewhere that 12% was a steep road somewhere I know he didn't know, because if the route he was demonstrating his vehicles on were really that flat then all his vehicles sucked worse than 2 wheel drive Celicas. It's weird. People report horse power and rpms and all this complex mechanical stuff, but they leave out the basics.
Why didn't you try "VDC off and X-Mode on"? That would be the best setting in that scenario. x-mode maximizes the pressure on the MPT Clutch (MPT is like center diff) and with the max pressure it is like locking it so sending %50 power to the rear. without x-mode, %40 power is sent to back. Also, electronic diff lock (which is simulating diff lock with brakes on free wheel), which is the absolute testing item here, works faster with x-mode on. So, you should have tried VDC off and x-mode on. I hope that some other people with Foresters and/or Outbacks could go there and test this...
niuhuskieguy actually, turning off VDC “should” solve this. If somebody does “rollers on a steep grade” test, we can better understand the behavior of the car then...
They tried VDC off and X-Mode on in the last video and combined with the line they took it didn't work. Might have made it had they took the straight line like they did in this video, but I still think X-Mode might cut too much power when you need it. Also it's important to note that the newer Subarus don't do well with two diagonal wheels off the ground and or not getting traction and the front wheels turned too much.
dustin boone x-mode does not cut power, instead it uses lowest gear ratio in CVT to make sure max torque is transferred to the wheels. So, x mode trying to simulate low range gear with this. Also, x mode transfers more torque to the rear wheels with more pressure on the MPT clutch. With x mode, torque dist is %50-50, without x mode, it is %60 front %40 rear and constantly changing between %90 front %10 rear to %50-50 Also with x mode, torque converter does not lock up in lower speeds which allows better and smoothier throttle control. Also with x mode, electronic diff lock behavior is different. Braking force on the free wheel is applied far more before than xmode off.. So, all in all, this test is all about electronic diff lock which is far more better with xmode but xmode has not been used in this test :( Please somebody find two rollers, place them diagonally on a STEEP street and test a subaru on them, with 4 different traction options: vdc off/on; xmode off/on Everybody knows that diagonal roller tests are piece of cake for today’s awd cars when the test is done on flat surface. However, when it comes to steep grade, all math changes, all load changes... so, to understand if the Subaru makes really nice working electronic diff or not, make a diagonal test on a steep climb, and we’ll all see then...
By "cutting power" I meant it is using electronics to brake what the system(s) is sensing as a wheel with limited traction, however sometimes it can be overactive and take away momentum in situations when more wheel spin can actually be beneficial. The original and current generation X-mode seems to be more geared toward icy situations and safety, so that the vehicle doesn't slide off the road and not that great for actual "off roading", even though Subaru kind of tries to market it that way. From what I've heard the new generation of Forester has multiple X-mode settings including one for deep snow and mud, which will allow for more wheel spin and probably help in certain situations like this one. Anyway I see your point with using the roller test as it is a controlled test where you can do a fair and accurate comparison to other vehicles. These real life situation videos are fun to watch and can be somewhat informative, but there are too many variables involved to do a direct comparison to other vehicles. A more fair comparison if the other vehicle is there the same day, but you still have to try to take the same line and use the same sort of momentum.
"Do you think it was cutting power ?" It was definitely cutting tremendous amount of power. It seemed like the car went into a safety mode. All power was being cut at times and then suddently it would decide to move and then do nothing and then move. An interesting test would be to try a manual transmission. I'd bet a few dollars that it would perform much better (also with transaction off and X mode off).
It didn't look like it was cutting too much power, just it didn't have traction. I think putting it in "L" would have worked wonders, the CVT would benefit more from it than an A/T. Also, with the right settings, I think this would do better than the manual Outback. It has tourqe vectoring and you don't need to deal with the manual transmission. Not to say the manual Outback wouldn't be able to do a good job.
I see that you tried X-mode with traction control turned off, but can you also switch it to manual mode and use the paddle shifters to get more torque?
We bought our 4th Subaru, a 2015 Outback, in Colorado11/2014 essentially the same as your test vehicle. The first thing we did is take it up Pikes Peak, and I backed it into a 10" snowbank and lost power. I was surprised and disappointed, but still in "baby it" mode at less than 100 miles. I did some minor tests with similar results shortly thereafter. Not impressed. When we passed 5000 miles there was a noticeable and significant change, transforming her into the best off road Subaru we have had. Much more power, and the CVT didn't seem to bog down. I researched, and even contacted Subaru, but was unable to find a reason for this. We STRONGLY believe there was a "break in" power inhibitor of some kind holding her back until the "switch was flipped" at 5000 miles. Your video reminded me of this. Does yours by chance have fewer than 5000 miles? If so, can you play with her again after she is broken in? LOVED your video!
This, 1000 times this. Subarus have a break in period. Ive experience it on my 05 and im experiencing it again in my '18. I remember when I first got my 05 I was smelling that center diff for almost two years every time I worked it in snow or rain, until it broke in.
Oh, I'm not a fan of CVT nor anyonen, yet I was still planning to get an Outback 2016-2017 as I do road trips to explore but after watching this and got knowledge about Suburu isnt being so cooperative due to the fact of TLF being righteous and still careless and doing bad advertising on there website that I've come to conclusion, I will buy either Cr-v, Rdx/MDX as I currently own an Acura 2012 and I love its handling.
Nice video reviews on the Outback! I just bought a 2018 model, it is my 6th Subaru. It is such a shame they are moving away from the manual versions, as they did years ago when they offered a manual 4WD with dual range. Put a set of offroad tires on those and they performed incredibly well off road. I miss the manual 4WD selector.
I think I enjoy watching these kind of tests as much as anybody, where vehicles that aren't really meant to things get asked an awful lot of them, but they really hit cars in general on the nose at the end; if you want a vehicle to do something well, build for it. One change to "X" can cause a string of changes to Y, Z, and then back to W. Everything is a compromise in "stock" form.
I have A 2017 WRX and my wife has a 2016 Outback. It's a freaking fantastic family car, which in reality will spend 99% of it's life ON road. It's certainly capable of some light trails to camp sites, is great in the snow, and it's SAFE. As much as I like it these results don't shock me at all, I recognize it's purpose and it's not to tackle 4x4 trails, especially with a CVT. Get a Jeep (insert other real 4x4 here) if you want to do real offroading.
The thing is, a whooooole bunch of competing crossovers blow subaru away in this test. That's the irony of the whole thing. A brand who's entire image, *for nearly it's entire history*, is tough conditions prowess, and yet they fall down in the tougher tests that a lot of other crossovers can handle. This is a very cheap crossover, but it's not like the off road gets better in the more expensive subarus.
It’s a soft roader, and it’s marketed as such. It’s not marketed as a serious off-roader, despite what many people keep claiming. If you think those pictures of rutty former logging roads are “serious” trails, then Subaru isn’t the problem.
I completely agree..... I remember those old Subaru videos with the rollers to show how good there awd is. Those days are gone haha. But for on road they are great.
Hi Guys, Thanks for revisiting the issue. I totally agree it's a softroader. But that's it's space. Absent the marketing outdoorsy hype, it's a really comfortable, great car to drive and it can go almost anywhere, but not everywhere. Think 95% urban, 5% mild offroad. Love your videos!
I love my Outback and how it performs in rain and snow on hard surfaces, including most forest service roads. I wouldn’t consider rock crawling as a staple
Yes, it is. Have you seen how low the chin spoiler sits? Have you also seen how few "Silverado off road" videos there are on here compared to say... Pretty much any other truck?
The standard "4wd" system is single speed, but the optional off-road package has lo-range. The single speed is more than what most truck drivers will ever use. Few truck owners do anything that couldn't be done with a Camry.
N Pooch true but that wasn’t the question. The question was whether or not the Silverado with a single speed TC is a soft off-roader. All indications point to yes. I guess GM realized there’s no need for a traditional 2 speed transfer case when the truck barely sits any higher than the aforementioned Camry to actually take it on roads where you’d need it. GM trucks in general aren’t good for much more than a dirt road with the exception of the ZR2 and perhaps the still untested Trail Boss
As you noted in your roller test, what wheels have what types of traction affect the system. I've never experienced the difficulty you have, but that's largely because I run some beefy all terrains. Though they're stock circumference and width, they're near bordering on off roads - at least as close as all terrains do (Kumho Road Ventures). I almost had to yank a 4x4 out of a stuck spot in sand last month with my Subaru Ascent, because he was running street tires and I was cruising by on my beefy all terrains.
been a mechanic for 45 yrs.When I worked for Nissan, at that time I owned a Subaru Tribeca. I had to tell customers constantly with Nissan pickups to put sandbags in the back of the bed in order to get traction in icy weather. Almost every year I pull Chevy, Fords and Nissan pick ups back onto the roads. Thats why the Olympics use Subaru.
I don't get it: You guys spent time and went all that way up the hill again, but didn't try all the alternatives. Why? I would like to see a "Traction Control ON" & "X-Mode ON" version.
I like my 2019 outback. Don't mind the CVT for daily driving either. I don't understand all the hate this car gets on this channel. I mean it gets me to all my camp sites just fine when all my friends have f250s, wranglers, Silverados etc. I don't plan on rock climbing or going super off-road with it. If I wanted that I would've gone a different route.
My uncle used to be a forester on a large estate in Scotland. He used Land Rovers for most of his career, but eventually switched to Subaru from the 80s onwards. He felt they were equally good in difficult terrain, provided better gas mileage and were much more reliable...which might be a low bar with Land Rover. Still, as a boy I remember going up hills in forests where there was only a rocky, muddy trail and the Subaru seemed to handle it well.
I have a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel w/ custom suspension system, 37" tires & engine tune that is a rock crawler & can also have high speed fun here in the Arizona desert. However I also have a stock 2013 outback & we take it camping, it's definitely capable enough for regular trails. Very fuel efficient too
@@yamahschector yeah my 2.5 would fly through just about anything with the right tires, like this winter they weren't able to plow the roads and there was about a foot and half to two feet of snow and mine just plowed right through, even with mud underneath.
Every one is complaining about the tires...they are testing the vehicles as they were sold! So if they change the tires on the subie then they could change the tires to better tires on the trucks...completely deaf eating the purpose. The Subaru is awesome in the right setting snow fire roads etc. Subaru should advertise accordingly and not say it can go anywhere! I have seen NO unfair testing here. Thanks for the amazing videos!
i think it's ALL about line choice - in all the cars you review, on any track or trail or even on a road of any surface. driving off or on road is about line choice. point any car or truck, soft roader off roader rock crawler or whatever, off trail, off line, or into a tree and it's not an off roader or a soft roader, it's a wreck. using momentum is also part of driving, on and off road. the thing is, you see a lot of idiots buying rubicons or raptors or 4 cross titans that go to a 'work site' and use all those lockers and low ranges to effectively drive on gravel, in ways the subaru could to just as well. and i don't think anyone here is arguing that a CVT is better than a locking diff switchable 4wd with low gear range off road. but when 90% + of the miles on the vehicle are onroad, the CVT is more efficient, and that's what makes it better for 99.9% of people buying them.
More proof that less electronics is best. Let the fancy computers control my air conditioning and lights sure. But when it comes to off-roading, let the mechanical parts do the work.
I am pretty sure that the Subaru Symmetrical AWD system uses two transfer cases, one in the front and one in the rear. The transfer case up front is right behind the transmission (inline with the drive shaft, symmetrical) and the other transfer case is built into the rear differential. This is why it does so well on ice it symmetrically transfers power all the time. Its a very intelligent system, and pairs very well with a CVT transmission. This video was a great example of why a professional driver can drive a slow car faster than an average driver. Its all about the line and your confidence in your ability of braking late holding your line and smooth power delivery. I bet a professional off road driver could drive a 2WD truck up that hill.
My 3.6 is 2011 it has limited slip differentials in the front and back and has a 5eat transmission in it. It doesn't limit the power like junk cvt's.The 2.5L does not have limited slip. . Due to vdc the differentials don't grab easy so it can torque vector. In my 3.6 if i apply the brakes and give it a little accelerator then start releasing the brakes all 4 tires will lock in. It has crawled up more than what you guys have. I would put it against the jeep Cherokee you guys have shown anyday .
I'm definitely a Subaru fanboy (Crosstrek owner and I enjoy it). I thought you guys gave it a fair shot first time out. I was always skeptical of how you would review it given the bad blood between you guys and Subaru, but I thought your tests were extremely fair.
Would you recommend the Crosstrek? I'm actually on the market for a new car. But lately we have been taking more trips up the mountains...(snowboarding) plus both our families live up north....(snow country). We normally rent an AWD when we go boarding so I thought I might as well just get one.
The crosstrek is probably a great, cheap vehicle for snowy roads that get you up to the ski lodge. I think it has 8.7 ground clearance and AWD. That’s a lot of ground clearance for a little vehicle.
@@JhonnyGil101 I have a Crosstrek with AT tires on it, and I would drive up the canyons every weekend here in Utah to go boarding. It was terrific handling any snowy conditions.
I live in Northern NH on a steep narrow gravel road and have a 2014 Subaru Forester with CVT. When there is a winter thaw the thick base of snow turns mealy mush and is a real challenge for the car. In these conditions the car smells like burning after. Do you think that's the CVT?
Studded tires all around for my 2008 Forester XT and it goes amazing here in WV with our crappy roads and weather, though its the 4 speed auto. When I test drove a 2015 Forester with the CVT I could immediately tell a difference and I hated it. I wouldn't own a Subaru past 2013.
Yes, Unfortunately I think the introduction of the CVT was a net negative for Subaru and I'm disappointed. The base model is still available in a standard transmission. Maybe that's the way to go.
The smell is not necessarily the CVT. It's most likely the tires. I get this smell all the time doing long drives in winter conditions and my car has a 6MT.
As a Subaru fan, I'm glad this video triggers the fanboys and Subaru corporate as well. Now we know why Subaru won't send TFLT any vehicles, it will just end up as bad advertising. I miss my gen 1 and gen 2 Foresters, they were tanks......minus the exploding head gaskets, rotting fuel filler necks, wheel bearings that lasted no more than 10k miles, leaking cam seals, valve covers, spark plug gasket seals and that special $5 seal in the back of the engine that required you to drop the transmission just to get to it. Oh yea, I forgot about the piston slap you'd hear when you first start up a cold engine. While we are at it, let's not forget the nice rattle the exhaust heat shields would produce which required you to burn off the shields with a torch. But hey, you were great in the snow.
I bought into the hype and bought an '04 Legacy years ago and have never had so many problems with a vehicle. It was amazing in the snow and went places offroad that it had no business being (this was before the computer traction control BS took over all new cars) but it was hands-down the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned. The fact that Subaru got butthurt about the first video and won't loan them cars to test is a real chicken move on their behalf and just goes to show they know their vehicle won't live up to the hype. I swore off owning another one years ago when I traded up to Ford truck and haven't looked back, seeing how they handled this situation plus the lack of constant repairs on my truck strengthen my position that I won't be buying another Subaru again.
I agree on the gen 2 Forester. The early ones were beasts. They towed 2400 lbs and I pulled a 1900 lb pop up for thousands of miles including all over the mountains with my 2004X and 2007 Premium (manual trannys). I still kick myself for not buying the 04 Turbo Forester. Fifteen extra dollars a month. Stupid, stupid stupid. Oh well a road not taken. It was the only one to have the STi motor (detuned). 2005 forward were the uptuned 2.4. The big change occurred in like 2005 when they hired the Marketing guy as CEO. The differences between my 04 and 07 reflect his input I believe. Subaru had been an engineers brand but didn't sell enough vehicles. The Marketing guy addressed that...at the expense of engineering. My 07 Premium was NOT the same vehicle as my 04. Although essentially the same vehicle, The changed the power torque ratio and the steering wheel to wheel turns AND softer springs. I ended up having to put "pinks" springs on the 07 to keep the back end flat on the 07. There was virtually no sag on the 04 with OEM springs. I really noticed the difference between the two on the Eisenhower tunnel run West of Denver. The 04 was a beast running forty in third. The 07 forced me into second at 30 to get up the Eisenhower run. And it didn't like it. The 04 was like give me more. We just got rid of our 2010 Forester X at 105K miles (last of the old auto tranny). It was the most reliable lowest maintenance vehicle I ever owned and still towed 2400 lbs (although we didn't). It was the last and it took us through some rough stuff mostly snow reliably. We now have a 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk with the V6 and a 4500 lb tow rating. We will see on that one particularly reliability. So, now Foresters are simply "me too" SUV's directly competing with the CRV's and Rav4's Mazda blah blahs...that can't tow anything. It does still have a better more rounded "real" all wheel drive system than the others but the distinctions are not there any longer...imho. That's why we went Jeep. I doubt it will be as reliable, but rear lockers, and the V6 will go places towing something no Subaru ever could.
Can't use momentum is some horse shit. It's a go anywhere vehicle, not a technical marvel. I've seen a Geo Metro go up a trail like that with the right driver....
We had great experiences with our 2004 Outback, bu we did have the head gasket and bearing issues. Every other problem (and then some) showed up on our 2009 Tribeca that you mentioned. I had one of those not good laughs as you were right on the money. That being said, although there is a place for these Subaru AWD's (they're incredibly capable vehicles), but as with everything... there are truly limits and people should know this. I'm still a fan of the Outback and Forester, but we need channels like TFL to put these vehicles in perspective/context.
UnsulliedSpy it's funny everyone has a different opinion of a brand. I went from a Subaru to a brand new Ford F150 and I've had 3 warranty repair issues (faulty waste gate, leaking rear window and a leaking oil pan) in 2 years of owner ship so far and I had to replace the rear brakes after 4000 miles of driving it off the lot because they developed a grinding sound when braking. I'm dying to get back in a Subaru when I'm done with this truck. All the issues I've had have just reaffirmed I'll never buy a Ford again. Compared to my Subaru Impreza WRX that never had a single problem.
I would never buy a crossover to go off-roading anyways, good to see you guys care about your viewers. Not many do these days, at least as genuine as you guys seem.
I just got a 2015 2.5i outback. I'm a stay-at-home mom that owns a piece of land in the high mountains of New Mexico. Well, I took my kiddos out to go check on the land and I made the wrong turn while I was busy singing to a musical of some sort. I, of course, realized it was a wrong turn when the loose rocks and dirt began slipping down a large cliff. No place to turn around for a few miles and I was terrified. Xmode was turned on and I no longer felt fear. My car was perfect. SO many steep hills like the ones in the video and we made it up! On the way down I used hill descent and it took care of us again. My husband was so glad he got us that car because I really don't think my Odyssey would have handled that steep and scary road.
They can't be spending $600 on tires every time they review a car. They do that with their long term test vehicles, but it really didn't matter with the Subaru. The transmission wasn't allowing the factory tires to spin, so theres no point in getting better traction.
You can't switch off Traction Control (TC) in this car, like in most of other cars. What you switch off is Dynamic Stability Control (DSC). TC and DSC have a totally different function. TC takes care of breaking any spinning wheel or wheels, and wile breaking the spinning wheel, power is forced to flow to the wheel (or wheels) with grip. DSC takes care of a other problem: If you cut a corner to fast and car starts making a move sideway, the DSC system will apply the breaks on the inside of the corner en throttle (power) will be released on the outside of the corner and the car will me forced to follow the line that you had in mind ;-) So, if you are standing on a hillclimb, with full throttle with spinning wheels turning the wheels from left to right, the DSC system will detect the slightest movement of the car from left to the right and 'thinks' it will fly out of a corner, wich result in DSC doing it's job: loss of power and breaking activities wich you don't want at that moment.... So: Don't turn off DSC, keep your wheels in a straight line and slowly build up throttle en keep up building that op while wheels (mostly crossaxled situation) start spinning and don't leave throttle, but keep building it up slowly so that the TC sensors in the wheels can pick op the signal of spinning wheels and break these spinning wheels, while power will be forced to go to the wheels that carry most weight or have the most grip. Stop using throttle untill your on top, but stop when 4 wheels are spinning (in that case you don't have 4x4, but 0x0:)
Same story when I had a '12 Forester. It had decent traction but with no low range and a lack of torque it just didn't have the power to get over much of anything.
A CVT is not for slow and high torque applications. You might be able to climb the rock, but what you do not see is the wear and damage that is internal to the transmission. If you do it regularly, it will cost you big repair bills.
True. But people buy these Outbacks like they're going out of style here in Colorado because of the mountains. I know a few people who live up very steep, long, dirt driveways.
so i take it you dozed off during the section of this video where it clearly shows that subaru was marketing this vehicle doing what it obviously isnt very good at.
Tahoe King good point I mean how many drivers would actually everyday day say hey honey let’s start going off road for now on, it should be for extreme snow ice roads
I fully agree with Trace because all of our older Subarus did not come with x-mode we just relied on the ability of four wheels to pull and it made it go we didn't need that but the VDC is something they came up with even back in the old l.l.Bean Outbacks that you had to pay extra for and it made them almost unstoppable. the VDC basically replaces your limited-slip so instead of a differential clutch it uses active braking which basically in turn wind up with position traction front and rear. I'm sorry for typing a book it's just that I have had so many of these and researched the so intently to understand how each one of my different Subaru operated so that I would be able to utilize them to the best of each of their abilities. Most of mine had LSD rear ends but when I got my 99 Forester I had to drive a little differently because it had an open rear differential. But like I said if you had VDC anywhere vehicle or an LSD rear axle as several Subaru models do then it won't matter if you have wheels in the air you can literally stop crossways in a ditch with two of the wheels two feet in the air up East and sit there and then he's off without spinning a wheel it's amazing.
I traded in my 05 Wrangler Unlmited with 91k miles for a 2022 Outback Premium. The Jeep was so fun but I'm more into comfort and mpg's. The comfort is unreal. The Jeep was noisy, bumpy, thirsty, etc. Great vehicle, dont get me wrong. It was just time. First week of driving the Outback I drove a little over 300 miles on half a tank. My Jeep would have been on empty before that.
You may have a traditional auto transmission. CVT transmissions are a mistake. Older Subaru's are better built.Good in snow and rain. I have a standard 2010 Forester that I have taken to lots of bush roads and remote camping. The thing is to take your time and be well equipped . I carry. 2 spare tyres. Extra battery. Shovel, axe and traction mats. Plus a CB radio. The only item I do not have is a winch. There;s usually someone with a 4X4 or a Ranger to tow you if you get bogged. I have seen Foresters and Outbacks fitted with a winch in my travels.I would love one but it would be expensive to buy and have fitted.
The other thing that you got to consider, is that Subaru is not like jeep, which is an off-roading and rock crawling company. Subaru puts a lot of its focus into rally car racing, which explains why the cars are more designed to carry momentum well and fight for traction and stability. Simply put a jeep is designed to go up a rocky hill and a subaru is designed to go around a curve on a dirt road really fast. And another thing for subarus with CVTs is that subaru tunes the engine of the car to produce max power and torque at different rpms, (or at least it does with my crosstrek) so the key to going up hills and stuff is to watch the revs and keep it between 3000-4000 rpm. Granted, keeping the revs there is really hard to do while trying to crawl up a hill, which is why the momentum factor is really helping with the hillclimbs on subarus. That, and you can buy decent all terrain tires for subarus.
I do agree, a locking diff helps a ton when getting through tough terrain. However, fit that outback with similar tires as the titan, and it should have no issue. When the wheels did have enough power, they couldn't grab traction on the dry loose dirt. The outback is capable of having ALL but 1 of the "7 things needed to offroad" and that's the locking diff. However, Torq manufactures a locking diff easily installable into most subarus. The average person who drives an outback is an elderly person that wants safety on the road and a comfortable grocery getter. The average person who drives an outback and takes it offroad, fits it with tires, diff, lift, etc. Level the playing field and the outback would do much better than the titan in many cases, due to a shorter wheelbase. Of course a car with less aggressive tires and more road turned suspension wont keep with with a truck outfitted specifically for offroad. Try taking the 2020 Onyx Edition outback for a spin. Good luck getting that thing stuck. Also, not to be rude, but offroading is about being smarter, not making the car work harder. Unless you want to break your car. Subarus handle unlike any other car offroad. They get traction in complete different ways and have complete different tactics for getting through rough terrain.
Did you have xmode 2? It locks up your diffs and gives full throttle (sport mode), then lock up your gearbox with manual and attack the hill - you will get more wheels spin of course! Dropping tyre pressure to 15 psi will double your contact patch and more aggressive tyres will double traction again but you guys know that. I know you where testing it in standard form. We love our Outbacks downunder in Oz - that's where they were bred. You guys have a great channel - keep up the good work.
Watch the first time we tested the New Outback up Gold Mine Hill Here: ruclips.net/video/WjmIke01KqE/видео.html
Should have been tested with VDC: Off and X-Mode: On.
Oguzhan Eren That’s what we did in the first video found above
You did not show that in the first video but your son did it in this one :)
Actually you are testing electronic locking diff here in this test and X-Mode is primarily built for better EDC speed and engagement...
Actually, you don't need to climb there again to test all of these scenarios.. you know diagonal roller tests, right? Just make a diagonal roller test, but in a very steep street, similar slope in that stage 3... And then we'll see what happens in each iterations..
Iteration 1: vdc: on xmode:off (default)
Iteration 2: vdc: off xmode: off (you tried this)
Iteration 3: vdc: on xmode: on
Iteration 4: vdc off xmode: on (the best recipe)
So, grab two rollers, find a very steeeeep street in your town, if there is one; then run these iterations...
This famous video is the answer to why you should test with rollers not on flat surface, instead, on a STEEP one:
ruclips.net/video/jkiv-bWbLIo/видео.html&
I can tell you after two years with my outback, that while it's capable off the road, it's NOT a Wrangler or purpose built rock crawler. However, it's almost unparalleled on snow and ice, which are a far more common issue for most drivers. It pulls my boat (and gets great traction on wet boat ramps), Hauls all the camping gear, is comfortable on long drives, averages 28.5 mpg all around over the last 6k miles, has loads of safety features found on more expensive vehicles, and will handle 90% of the off road driving that dedicated off roaders will do.
In short, it will do all the off roading most people will want, while being a far superior every day driver when compared to more potent off road vehicles.
big thing is the milage, not everyone lives where gas is cheap and they can drive a guzzler as a daily
@@danieljay8009 Too true. My F350 FX4 Superduty Diesel is more capable offroad than my Outback 3.6R in several ways... but I take my Subie more places than the truck because it's cheaper on many levels, not just MPGs.
I just used a loaner 2020 subi outback for two weeks and consistently got 24mpg
the thing is too that this subaru still has an open center diff, essentially. with these cvts and automatics you can add a switch to 'lock' the center diff basically to give you better offroad ability(the transfer case already has all the tech for it, normally its controlled by the computer but manual is best offroad). without that it oscillates the power front to back a bit too often which can stop you on some obstacles or require you to get more momentum.
I like it. To keep their metaphor most people dont scuba dive, they go snorkeling
The Subie is - in stock configuration - a soft-roader for sure. It's not designed to compete with a Jeep rock crawler or that Titan 4WD. But - hey - it did it.
The point is that this stage of the test doesn't require a "rock crawler" to complete it. Many other stock all wheel drive cars made it up including a Mitsubishi CVT, Subaru not what it used to be
Huh... So Subaru is "not what it used to be"...? Name one car maker that is. Every manufacturer will change to keep up - it's a case of "adapt or die". Subaru - a small maker - has made changes to their products over the years to be less quirky and to be more mainstream. That's not a bad thing. Other small makers - Mazda and Mitsubishi for example - have also changed. And what really sets Subaru apart from pretty much everybody else, is that Subaru's AWD system is designed from the start as an AWD system and not some FWD system with an added drive shaft to a (now) driven rear axle. With the exception of the BRZ, they start life as AWD and are better than just about any other AWD system out there. Are they rock crawlers? No. But then again, neither is anybody else - especially stock off the lot - with the exception of a few Jeep models.
@@LMCDRM Again, no one is saying a subaru is a rock crawler. The point is that Subaru advertises themselves to be a "go anywhere" vehicle. But in this case, other manufacturers beat the subaru hands down. Fact, I own a non-cvt subaru with its own headgasket issues, but I would not buy a new one simply because a CVT subaru dressed up in all its external visual upgrades does not mean better capability. CVTs are not meant to slip. It means they sacrificed their capability for improved gas mileage. Sure, maybe nothing is like it used to be and it was inevitable for Subaru to do this but, for example, Mazda did not go CVT, neither did KIA or Hyundai. Look at the abomination that is the new "RS" Impreza, it's got the 2.5 but only comes in CVT, not even a manual option.
@@drivewayhero Eh .. not so much.... The CVT is not slipping. Instead, the ECU and TCU are pulling power instead of slipping the transmission; the power is being applied to the wheel/wheels with traction to move the vehicle forward. There are many others that have head gasket problems... look at Dodge/Chrysler, look at Fiat, look at others. Mazda did not go CVT (yet?) and neither have many others. But then again, more than a few have. So CVTs are not a sign of the apocalypse ... They're a means to an end. A CVT is better in a lot of situations because it will use the best ratio for just about any given situation. Instead of having 5 or 6 or 8 ratios, it has a near-infinite set of ratios to use. As for the RS - it's all about what you do or do not want. Many makers are going away from a manual transmission and a lot of safety features are not able to be used with a manual transmission. For example, if a car does emergency braking, the computer systems work in conjunction with the engine and the transmission and the rest to stop the vehicle. The manual transmission will not be able to downshift as needed to keep the engine from stalling with the loss of fuel to the engine. But that's a discussion for another time.
@@LMCDRM The CVT is most definitely slipping because you would not get a warning if it was not and
potential damage if you continue. I understand perfectly well what a CVT does no need to explain and the fact that it finds the perfect ratio to the engine speed. That's what kills it for me. That's when driving becomes a bore. that's the reason why lotta sports cars enthusiast cars actual driving cars that are fun to drive don't use the CVT. And the fact that they put paddle shifters on CVT transmissions to "simulate" "gear shifts" it's about the same abomination as piping in synthetic sound into the cabin instead of just listening to the engine, which manufactures have resorted to as well such as the new supra. Lane assists, start/stop systems, "eye sight" looking st your face the whole time and babying you. Pretty much no one will know how to drive soon.
I also believe if I was going to take the Outback off road on a regular basis, I would equip it with aggressive or off road tires.
And the manual transmission
It doesn’t even have the power to turn regular tires in dry dirt lol.
The Mitsubishi did it
They would have to drop down a rim size to get a good off road tire.
@@MacTechG4 dont make outback manual anymore. My 07 was stick. I tried to buy a manual.
Unfortunately the gear ratios subaru picks for a lot of cars are a bit too tight. The sti has to be in 3rd gear to hit 60mph. And on the highway at 80mph it's north of 3500rpm maybe 4000rpm.
I'm a Subaru enthusiast and thought during the previous stage 3 Gold mine hill test that you were subtly trashing the Outback's reputation. You've proven to be honest in showing this revised test. You made it clear that Subaru wasn't working with you guys but you were able to invest in buying the car to test it for the benefit of the audience. You've earned my respect. I appreciated seeing the limits of the Outback.
Norm from Montreal, Canada
"I appreciate seeing the limits of the Outback" ...as much as that hurts! I'd like to see it climb that hill as if its on a conveyor belt. :-)
@edwardjski These guys h8 Subaru. I'd like to see this climb with the right tires and driven by someone who knows how to drive a Subaru.
Whenever you drive off road, you change the driving aids accordingly. That might be low ratio or locking a diff. Turning off the tc and x mode is the same exercise. You 2 didn't do the test well. Of course a 4wd is better off road than an awd. But an awd beats the 4wd hands down on the Rd in all conditions and every aspect and that's what most people want.
I don't own a subaru, but have a forester which climbed steep hills covered in ice like itvwas dry. Other cars were abandoned and had to ferry people around who couldn't understand how easy it was for me with just all season tyres on.
"guys, trust me I know what I'm doing." 3 minutes later "Ooops, I didn't have it in 4-wheel drive"
It wasn’t even the same vehicle though???
Think he was just a little amped up. Clearly they got a lot of vitriol over the course of years by showing up Subaru fanboys
Impressed that you read and took viewers comments to heart for this review. Kudos Roman!
Meh
I have made similar hills in my 2015 2.5 Forester. Traction control tries to kill engine power to keep traction, so I turn it off. The system will still sense a spinning wheel and stop it to drive one with traction. I have climbed over water bars at an angle and had opposing corner wheels lifted, and still it made it. For a 32mpg vehicle with passenger tires it equates itself pretty well, considering that the truck with off road tires couldn't make it until you engaged the locker.
THIS is exactly why I own a 2012 3.6R with a 5 speed true automatic. My car would pull up this thing like it's nothing. I think Subaru made a mistake when they went CVT only in 2013.
2015 is when they first used the CVT on the 3.6R , you can still get 5 speed auto with 2013.
The CVT used with the 3.6 is the "HCVT" TR690 which is a much stronger transmission than the TR580 used with the 2.5 Outback. Its actually really nice transmission. The TR690 is strong, responsive, and it will shift torque harder. The TR580 is basically a Crosstrek transmission
So ( all ) new Subarus have CVTs? This is shit if so
CVT sucks
@@MacTechG4 I would have agreed with you before I tried this transmission but it's pretty damn good. It's only the one on the 3.6R/XT models
As an avid Outback fan, I'll definitely agree, it's a "wagon" first that has the ability to go off road if you want to. But it's meant for trails, mud, even shallow rivers. I've also heard that the CVT and Symmetrical All Wheel Drive system are plenty capable, but the computer system is what tends to hold the car back. Weirdly enough.
Because CVT's a prone to damage in those situations and CVT replacement is not cheap, not even at factory cost under warranty, thus Subaru (knowing it's customer habits) has programmed the computer for an extra layer of protection of that CVT even though it means reducing the cars capabilities.
@@JA-rn5qv reducing? You mean making it completely useless?
Just when the Subaru starts to climb, he stops....
These guys h8 Subaru. Personal grudge
Also the pure highway tires don't help
They’ve decided before they do the test it won’t work. Otherwise you wouldn’t need to buy the truck.
I noticed in one of the interior shots that you're doing it with the transmission in D. This really should be done in 1 or L. Telling a CVT to stay on it's lowest ratio is a lot more important than with a fixed ratio transmission.
This wont change the gear ratio which is what is dragging the RPMs so low that there is just not enough torque. Watch this vid at 7 min mark. You will see that it does not change a thing in power delivery D vs L. This car is not set up properly for this type of off roading. ruclips.net/video/AbYvOiAiwSw/видео.html
X mode keeps the car in first gear.
These tests should use standardized tires. Slicks.
CVT is utterly pathetic, both on or off road, it’s *ONLY* party piece is fuel economy, everything else sucks.
just accept that subaru is pathetic these days, so much denial here
It’s a soft off roader. No doubt about it. Had an Outback for last 4.5 yrs. Loved it in the snow. It ain’t no Jeep though. Good follow up review
The Jeep CUVs are good, but even they have their limitations. ruclips.net/video/NWBHuPDRapQ/видео.html
This video says quite differently.
ruclips.net/video/FW9OB0NARdk/видео.html
Get a manual and keep T/C off.
Richard Goins watched the video you linked and this video auto played. ruclips.net/video/vbMB97i-Xf4/видео.html I’m guessing we could trade videos all day.
I live near Bennett Springs MO I take my 18 Outback down trails worse then this to go camping. I always love the look on my friends face when I pull up in my Outback. They are always so amazed a station wagon can make it where there Jeeps and trucks can go.
I have 3 Subaru’s! 98 Forester (my first car over 300k still running but I’ve retired her from anything more then groceries) a 18 Outback and 18 Legacy. Only thing I’ve changed from stock on all 3 of my Subaru’s is the tires. I think what we are seeing is a combination of tires and the driver knowing how to use the automobile. Put me in a 4x4 and I get stuck. I’m the first to admit I suck at 4x4 anything. Put me in my Forester or Outback and I’m good to go. I will say my 98 Forester is WAY better then my 18’s. My 98 is a tank and the 18s feel breakable compared to my 98 but two definitely capable.
I took a huge hill in my 3.6 outback in some deep sand, ate up a 1500 with bfg mud terrains, as well as a geo tracker
It's silly to think that you are going to tackle the Rubicon with a Subaru from the show room floor. With that said my wife's next vehicle will be a Subaru Forester. It's a great vehicle for daily life and occasional mild adventure. Such as taking kayaks up a dirt road to a mountain lake or a safe drive to the ski hill in bad weather. The lack of power to the wheels when it can't get traction is for me a plus. That's what keeps its CVT dependable and from destroying itself vs. say the Nissan CVT. Thanks for the great content you guys put out.
This is a helpful comment. Finding the limit is one thing but this video sort of leaves one with the impression the Outback is utterly incapable.
I am glad you guys continue to test soft roaders. It is really nice for those of us who off road once a month and don't want to put up with an off roader for the rest of the time. My 2013 rav4 can make it up stage 3 btw.
this confirms to me that they should have updated the old 4 speed, and not gone cvt
Better review and explanation, on what Subaru is currently for.
I didn't purchase mine for going off road. I bought it for country dirt roads and winter time, for those (UK) roads that don't get gritted etc.
Am I correct in saying, that for permanent AWD, this has the best MPG?
I bought the XV/Crosstreck, as it was the cheapest permanently AWD system and Android auto (so I could use Waze/Google Maps). Look forward to you testing it in the snow.
I don't see the point of the Crosstreck vs say an impreza - they are more expensive to lease and sorry but they look funny - of course this goes against 99% of public opinion because they sell a shite load here in Colorado - what am I missing ????
Learned two things here.
1. Everyone's a damn critic
2. Buy a 6 speed manual subaru
Ive seen lots of 1st and 2nd gen foresters here in manitoba climb snowy hills where jeeps slide down. Pathetic cvt.
We have one, the last gen that came with a six speed 2.0l
Nick Bradshaw they just hate Subaru that’s all.... Leggie fan and I will forever will be. After all I love the 6-star brand. rumble rumble.....
Holding onto an '08 Outback MT for this reason
+Nick Bradshaw - I learned not to see videos of "The Fast Lane Car", and not to believe nothing of what these liars and obvious Subaru haters say. I have seen 2018 (and whichever other year) Subaru Outback's climb and pass through much harder obstacles than the one in this shameful anti-Subaru propaganda video.
I own a Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru outback, I'm very surprised at the things I can get the Subaru through and 90% of the time it's just finding the right line to take. That being said I don't treat it like the jeep and take it on black rated off-road trails. But it can get us down an nasty dirty road out into the desert when I don't want to spend massive amounts of $$$ on gas for the jeep lol.
The problem is that it is a soft roader , if you punished the transmission like that too often , you would be asking for trouble ,
and on this particular test it had one light weight guy sitting it.
Load it up and do the test again , and it is a fair bet it would have failed.
@BlueElk As someone who owns a Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru Outback if you say jeep is a solid offroader then I'd have to call my suby a soft roader, nothing wrong with that. 90% of the time it's the driver who understands what line to pick in different situations. Not sure why everyone's up in arms about it being called a soft roader, it's still fantastic in mud and snow and dirt.
mikldude I’m not sure how being a “soft roader” is a problem. Everybody spends more than 80% of their time driving on the road. I’ve never heard of anyone who had to commute to work by crossing a desert or rock crawling up a mountain. I’d rather spend my time in a comfortable, safe, and quiet vehicle while on the road. I love these comments that are completely illogical.
exactly. I took my 2016 Forester on the 100 mile White Rim Trail in Canyonland NP. Did it in one day -- no camping overnight. Had many others with 4Runners totally surprised that I was able to do the full trail with a CVT Forester. They were totally amazed. I'm amazed what the Forester is capable of. They should have given the Outback in this video a set of ATV tires. The all season tires equipped on the Outback was a huge deficit for this kind of a climb.
That's funny I've also got a wrangler, and I just bought the missus an '18 Outback. The kids used to want to ride in the Jeep every day, now it's the Subie...ouch.
I love the 'it worked hard to do it'. It looked pretty easy once he took the right line.
Those guys: "We're rooting for the car."
Also those guys: make all kinds of excuses and caveats when the car succeeds.
What it lacks in off-road ability, it makes up in love and tolerance.
LOLOLOL ...
Just like today's generation...
Former Subaru Forester owner here. One of the few RUclips comments to make me genuinely burst out laughing.
Good exhibition of 4WD vs. AWD. Yes, the Subaru is a soft roader. No shame in that. In snowy New England it rocks.
ruclips.net/video/oTiXFhMChcM/видео.html
Like this?
"In snowy New England it rocks" Shouldnt it snow? :D
They nailed it. It can do easy dirt roads, but it's not as dedicated an off-roader as a real one. It's a more a car than an SUV, so if your off-roading isn't that challenging (and it usually isn't, here in the flat lands), it's great. As good in the snow as anything, until it's deep enough to hang up the car. DAMHIK.
Here actually we are not discussing if Subaru is off-roader or not. Everybody knows that Subaru is not a hard-offroader like a Merc. G-Wagon or Land Rover Defender etc. The problem is that Subaru, in this video, is suffering A LOT compared to other soft-roader vehicles like Volvo XC40 and etc.
more like open diff vs solid axle. to be fair the subaru should have had the optional rear 1.5 diff
I genuinely hope Subaru is watching and they do come maybe it will strengthen the bond between your brand and theirs.
No one should buy one of off-roading ever !Use for on-roading,or buy a Jeep.
Same. As someone who owns a 09 Wrx and 15 fxt... I’m not buying another Subaru unless they stop softening their cars.
I would love to see Subaru copy the Toyota cvt and put an actual gear for low speed take offs, then send you a car to test
ruclips.net/video/FW9OB0NARdk/видео.html
These guys are the ones that violated their contract. Furthermore they can’t drive and Subaru is well aware of these facts. Subaru owes them nothing and if you watch the attached video you will see that Roman is lying through his teeth and there is nothing wrong with the cvt.
ruclips.net/video/FW9OB0NARdk/видео.html
JP no offense, but I own a 15fxt, brother owns a 15 wrx. Neither car will get off the line hard, the reason is well documented (cvt belt binds up at low ratios). The Wrx is an awd sports car that can’t launch. In both cars you can feel the ecu cut power when floored from a dead stop. I’ll repeat that, you can feel it in the butt dyno. Subaru needs to fix this.
Just checking here... The Titan needed to have the diff locked to get up the 'Hard' line, and you had it in 4lo? Did you at least try it in 4Hi? Does this not mean that all of the vehicles that made it with 'mere' AWD are actually quite impressive compared to a true 4X4 that needed to have the diff locked? What about all of the 4X4 trucks that don't come with a locker? I am fully aware (after owning 10 different Subarus) that a 4X4 with proper ground clearance, locking diffs, etc is going to go places a Subaru can't. But c'mon. A crossover (by definition) is not in the same class - if they can do any of these things with reasonable confidence, they are fulfilling their purpose.
One more note: the bit in the manual about X-Mode helping with hills and such is no doubt referring to situations where there is low grip, not completely uneven surfaces. Think of a snow-covered hill that is not completely rutted out. Or refer to the pictures in their advertising - they don't show it tackling situations like the Goldmine stage 3 'hard' route.
The Titan requires 4-Lo to engage the Diff Lock. They didn't address it in the video, because apparently Dad didn't know that.
I think they did address it. Last time they did it in 4 low with the diff lock and this time they were trying it in 4 high.
Still you guys didn’t do Traction Off, XMode On.
They don't get it....I was thinking that too. They are not using the right settings.
That was done in the first video I believe
ruclips.net/video/WjmIke01KqE/видео.html they did
How bout: trade in CVT Subaru that is falsely advertised for a capable off-terrain vehicle if that's what you need. Subaru is just a grocery hauler now masquerading as an off-terrain car
@@KarnakthemagnificentNot to mention they should have used better tires.
subaru giving a cvt on such a good awd system is like hiring usain bolt to run a 100m race for you but giving him brand new leather-soled shoes that are a few sizes too tight
The achilles heel with the Outback is that CVT. Throttle input is reduced electronically to reduce strain on the transmission. I experienced this with a Versa CVT on a slippery hill in the winter. The engine cut the power to keep the wheels from spinning, even with the traction control switched off.
It was just trying to commit suicide after realizing it's a Nissan Versa
@@iHaveTheDocuments Yep. It was a self-destructive car for sure. Total turd.
I had a Nissan Altima with a CVT in Chicago. If you got stuck in a parking lot with snow, it was a nightmare. Men pushing the back of the car, yelling “Give it more gas!” And me whimpering “It’s floored.”
Never a CVT again. Never.
CVT + Low Power + the outback is a hefty girl.
I know Toyota SUVs suck at off road, but I heard Toyota was moving to a starting gear for their CVTs, if Subaru did the same would this not help in this situation if CVT is really the Achilles heel? So basically how Toyota does it is they have a standard CVT and then they have a gear that drops in just for take off purposes once its ready to go into CVT action where pulleys adjust the gear is lifted away. If Subaru did this then they would basically be haveing a traditional transmission with 1 gear. Braking traction control like what is being done in the subaru robs power vs. a locker, plus you have elevation robbing power, plus I wouldn't go to your extreme with this type of car either. I think some offroading sure, but I agree this is too much for this vehicle.
Good job getting that Outback up that hill. To make the tires spin, of course have traction control off, but also hit the shifter into “M” by flicking it “left” from drive. Then you can lock in the first gear ratio and it won’t try to up shift, it will let the tires spin.
That Nissan Titan had a hell of a time getting up Gold Mine hill. If it wasn’t for that rear locker, It didn’t look like it would make it. But only the top, or near top of the line trucks have lockers. So 75-90% of 4x4 trucks out there don’t have lockers. Let’s say only 30% of trucks out on the road are 4x4. That’s not a lot of trucks out there climbing this hill! The cheapest Impreza has the same Subaru AWD system. They might not all have Xmode, but you’ve just proved it isn’t needed.
Thanks for the Retry guys!!!
I might be critical of TFL on rare occasions but not disrespectful. I appreciate their work and I’m a long time subscriber. Thanks TFL!
This guy knows what he's talking about! To the TFL crew, thanks for giving this a second shot.
Well said!
Id have a go at that with my 03 pathfinder in 2wd, and Im not what id call a serious dedicated offroader.
Yeah, a modern AWD will blow away a classic 4WD transfer case to open diffs any day of the week. Mainly do to spinning wheel braking (see jeep renegade) and variable tourque. But if you *have* the lockers with a 4WD, it's all over. Not even CLOSE.
Eric Swenson I can’t argue there. You have to have some serious 💰 💰 💰 to get a modern truck with lockers. They don’t offer them on the low or mid trims.
Lets admit CVTs are not for offroad. Its for fuel economy side. I have a dual range transmission on my impreza its capable on dirt road. I bet it can perform better than CVTs.
My Outback has the H6 in it and I've had it on two wheels many times and it climbs right through with no problem (20% grade). Of course I have the five speed automatic transmission and I keep traction control turned "on" (no XMode in my year).
But I'm glad to see you trying suggestions from your viewers.
I get the "lets not test mementum" but at the same time releasing throttle at the wrong times was frustrating me. The top of that hill could have been made much easier by using traction, momentum, and still reasonably slow, but not stopping on purpose every time you get a roll going.
The 2019 Forester has new x-mode option that allows the wheels to spin when clawing for traction rather than just cutting the power.
I've had my '17 Forester XT in X-Mode stuck in the snow on all four wheels, and it acted like all 4 wheels were locked and the engine just growled with zero motion. I forgot to try TC Off, next time
At least for the 2.5, it seems like Subaru is more concerned about preventing damage to the drivetrain rather than allowing full output capability. I have the 3.6 and it comes with a high-torque CVT. When I turn off traction control via the button on left of steering column, I'm able to get more RPMs in low/no traction situations vs this specific 2.5. It seems to be programming problem on Subaru's part. I say 3.6R all the way!
heresdamian love my 3.6R
CVTS have garbage torque.. Torque is the low end power to the wheels that is needed for low speed situations when the tires spin. I think any company that uses Cvt will not see my money..
@@tjl8884 No doubt you don't buy a CVT if you're looking for torque, but if you want one of the smoothest drive trains without a 10-speed auto, CVT is the way to go.
Just got a letter in the mail the other day from Subaru stating our 2.5 Ouback CVT is now covered for 100,000K miles. I've read rumblings about how the CVT wasn't quite ready for the road, but now it seems as they're admitting it.
@@yoyodyne33 Same here for my 3.6. As soon as I pay it off, I'm looking to trade it in, probably for a Toyota Sienna.
I have a 2013 and I have done that hill twice... with no issues. line selection is key
Where is this Hill located?
2013 is a different car. Different generation, different software and conputer controls and totally different transmission
That was interesting, thanks. I'm on my 2nd Outback and just recently bought the 2019 2.5L. It was a little disappointing to see it struggle like it did. Seems the CVT couldn't output enough where it needed to. Although I don't do off roading, it's good to know the limitations. That being said they handle winter driving nicely. Thanks again !!
The Subaru also had all season tires. Which makes a world of difference.
I'd like to see how the old Subaru traditional 4x4's from the 80's would do on those trails.
I have a 1988 DL and it would CRUSH this test
Oh it would kill a modern one. I remember when they were sold as farm implements because there were no dealerships. They had low range and a proper transfer case.
Even my 2k would make short work. All utility
In '82, we test drove a subaru 4x4, steep did not slow it down.
Trust me. It is that power limit on the CVT cars that is the problem. Old cars doesn't have that.
TFL deserves a big round of applause for this. They heard what people were saying and were man enough to try it again. And they showed the results even when it made it up.
That was great!
They need to put off road tires on the Subaru
For this application with an non-manual transmission, the best system Subaru had was the VTD system used with the 4EAT in the WRX and 5EAT found in the Outback XT, Outback 3.0R, and Legacy GT. Of course they also had a rear LSD so that both rear wheels would turn. However, the WRX STI not only has the DCCD system which has better power distribution control than the VTD system, it also has a front LSD as well as the rear LSD - so overall it would be the best transmission for 1-2 wheel traction surfaces. Bottom line, mechanical all wheel drive systems beat computerized "send power to wheels with traction" systems for slow and difficult (1-2 wheel) traction situations. Fancy electronic systems with whatever type of gear/non-gear transmission are better for wet or icy roads and allow for better fuel mileage. Choose one for what you want/need to do.
5EAT also found in early Outback 3.6r =)
One very funny thing to me about all wheel drive vehicle videos is how few of the makers and experts bother to measure the % grade along the test route at the critical points and anywhere, even crudely, which is incredibly easy to do - just takes a couple of minutes . Now you can't say it doesn't matter because that's up to the viewer of the video , not the producer. Just provide the information , and let them decide that. It's basically impossible to determine grade from looking at a video and incredibly easy to do when you're there doing the testing.. I asked the maker of one video what the % grade was, and they responded 12%, probably because they heard somewhere that 12% was a steep road somewhere I know he didn't know, because if the route he was demonstrating his vehicles on were really that flat then all his vehicles sucked worse than 2 wheel drive Celicas. It's weird. People report horse power and rpms and all this complex mechanical stuff, but they leave out the basics.
You used momentum on all other vehicles that passed this stage. Ur a bunch of haters
I would love to see this test done with one of the older Subarus that had a conventional AT and mechanical limited slip diffs.
Mechanical LSD was way better.
exactly....also a forester would be better with the shorter wheel base
Just get someone driving who doesn't treat it like a bad infomercial
Had a lifted GL years ago, during the primo USMB days. Times have changed 😒 Don't like these CVTs but the MPGs are appreciated.
FS5 2.0L no turbo!
Why didn't you try "VDC off and X-Mode on"? That would be the best setting in that scenario.
x-mode maximizes the pressure on the MPT Clutch (MPT is like center diff) and with the max pressure it is like locking it so sending %50 power to the rear. without x-mode, %40 power is sent to back.
Also, electronic diff lock (which is simulating diff lock with brakes on free wheel), which is the absolute testing item here, works faster with x-mode on.
So, you should have tried VDC off and x-mode on.
I hope that some other people with Foresters and/or Outbacks could go there and test this...
The awd system itself wasn't the issue. The computer limiting power while we wheels were trying to spin was.
niuhuskieguy actually, turning off VDC “should” solve this. If somebody does “rollers on a steep grade” test, we can better understand the behavior of the car then...
They tried VDC off and X-Mode on in the last video and combined with the line they took it didn't work. Might have made it had they took the straight line like they did in this video, but I still think X-Mode might cut too much power when you need it. Also it's important to note that the newer Subarus don't do well with two diagonal wheels off the ground and or not getting traction and the front wheels turned too much.
dustin boone x-mode does not cut power, instead it uses lowest gear ratio in CVT to make sure max torque is transferred to the wheels. So, x mode trying to simulate low range gear with this.
Also, x mode transfers more torque to the rear wheels with more pressure on the MPT clutch. With x mode, torque dist is %50-50, without x mode, it is %60 front %40 rear and constantly changing between %90 front %10 rear to %50-50
Also with x mode, torque converter does not lock up in lower speeds which allows better and smoothier throttle control.
Also with x mode, electronic diff lock behavior is different. Braking force on the free wheel is applied far more before than xmode off..
So, all in all, this test is all about electronic diff lock which is far more better with xmode but xmode has not been used in this test :(
Please somebody find two rollers, place them diagonally on a STEEP street and test a subaru on them, with 4 different traction options: vdc off/on; xmode off/on
Everybody knows that diagonal roller tests are piece of cake for today’s awd cars when the test is done on flat surface.
However, when it comes to steep grade, all math changes, all load changes... so, to understand if the Subaru makes really nice working electronic diff or not, make a diagonal test on a steep climb, and we’ll all see then...
By "cutting power" I meant it is using electronics to brake what the system(s) is sensing as a wheel with limited traction, however sometimes it can be overactive and take away momentum in situations when more wheel spin can actually be beneficial.
The original and current generation X-mode seems to be more geared toward icy situations and safety, so that the vehicle doesn't slide off the road and not that great for actual "off roading", even though Subaru kind of tries to market it that way. From what I've heard the new generation of Forester has multiple X-mode settings including one for deep snow and mud, which will allow for more wheel spin and probably help in certain situations like this one.
Anyway I see your point with using the roller test as it is a controlled test where you can do a fair and accurate comparison to other vehicles. These real life situation videos are fun to watch and can be somewhat informative, but there are too many variables involved to do a direct comparison to other vehicles. A more fair comparison if the other vehicle is there the same day, but you still have to try to take the same line and use the same sort of momentum.
These guys seem to have an inherent dislike of Subarus
"Do you think it was cutting power ?" It was definitely cutting tremendous amount of power. It seemed like the car went into a safety mode. All power was being cut at times and then suddently it would decide to move and then do nothing and then move.
An interesting test would be to try a manual transmission. I'd bet a few dollars that it would perform much better (also with transaction off and X mode off).
yeah, my 2009 manual diesel outback would do alot better than this subie.
It didn't look like it was cutting too much power, just it didn't have traction.
I think putting it in "L" would have worked wonders, the CVT would benefit more from it than an A/T.
Also, with the right settings, I think this would do better than the manual Outback. It has tourqe vectoring and you don't need to deal with the manual transmission. Not to say the manual Outback wouldn't be able to do a good job.
I see that you tried X-mode with traction control turned off, but can you also switch it to manual mode and use the paddle shifters to get more torque?
We bought our 4th Subaru, a 2015 Outback, in Colorado11/2014 essentially the same as your test vehicle. The first thing we did is take it up Pikes Peak, and I backed it into a 10" snowbank and lost power. I was surprised and disappointed, but still in "baby it" mode at less than 100 miles. I did some minor tests with similar results shortly thereafter. Not impressed. When we passed 5000 miles there was a noticeable and significant change, transforming her into the best off road Subaru we have had. Much more power, and the CVT didn't seem to bog down. I researched, and even contacted Subaru, but was unable to find a reason for this. We STRONGLY believe there was a "break in" power inhibitor of some kind holding her back until the "switch was flipped" at 5000 miles. Your video reminded me of this. Does yours by chance have fewer than 5000 miles? If so, can you play with her again after she is broken in? LOVED your video!
This, 1000 times this. Subarus have a break in period. Ive experience it on my 05 and im experiencing it again in my '18. I remember when I first got my 05 I was smelling that center diff for almost two years every time I worked it in snow or rain, until it broke in.
Many engines have break-in periods, it is not just Subarus.
Okay... You are talking about standard maitenance of any car...
Oh, I'm not a fan of CVT nor anyonen, yet I was still planning to get an Outback 2016-2017 as I do road trips to explore but after watching this and got knowledge about Suburu isnt being so cooperative due to the fact of TLF being righteous and still careless and doing bad advertising on there website that I've come to conclusion, I will buy either Cr-v, Rdx/MDX as I currently own an Acura 2012 and I love its handling.
Nice video reviews on the Outback! I just bought a 2018 model, it is my 6th Subaru. It is such a shame they are moving away from the manual versions, as they did years ago when they offered a manual 4WD with dual range. Put a set of offroad tires on those and they performed incredibly well off road. I miss the manual 4WD selector.
Can’t go deep or long....me either bud.
"If you have to take the fuses out you shouldn't be on that hill"...as he is putting duct tape on on the car for skid protection...LOL
I think I enjoy watching these kind of tests as much as anybody, where vehicles that aren't really meant to things get asked an awful lot of them, but they really hit cars in general on the nose at the end; if you want a vehicle to do something well, build for it. One change to "X" can cause a string of changes to Y, Z, and then back to W. Everything is a compromise in "stock" form.
I have A 2017 WRX and my wife has a 2016 Outback. It's a freaking fantastic family car, which in reality will spend 99% of it's life ON road. It's certainly capable of some light trails to camp sites, is great in the snow, and it's SAFE. As much as I like it these results don't shock me at all, I recognize it's purpose and it's not to tackle 4x4 trails, especially with a CVT. Get a Jeep (insert other real 4x4 here) if you want to do real offroading.
Shawn Tarlo that’s exactly what they said in the video lol
@@carminedauria-gupta2561can't lie I skimmed at lunch...
The thing is, a whooooole bunch of competing crossovers blow subaru away in this test. That's the irony of the whole thing. A brand who's entire image, *for nearly it's entire history*, is tough conditions prowess, and yet they fall down in the tougher tests that a lot of other crossovers can handle. This is a very cheap crossover, but it's not like the off road gets better in the more expensive subarus.
Shawn Tarlo damn it can hit 115 with your 4 boyfriends inside. Impressive.
It’s a soft roader, and it’s marketed as such. It’s not marketed as a serious off-roader, despite what many people keep claiming. If you think those pictures of rutty former logging roads are “serious” trails, then Subaru isn’t the problem.
I completely agree..... I remember those old Subaru videos with the rollers to show how good there awd is. Those days are gone haha. But for on road they are great.
their!!!
Josh C not great on the road either. All hype and marketing..
*their
In Europe you could buy it (until mid 2018) with diesel engine and manual gearbox. That would really make a difference.
Hi Guys, Thanks for revisiting the issue. I totally agree it's a softroader. But that's it's space. Absent the marketing outdoorsy hype, it's a really comfortable, great car to drive and it can go almost anywhere, but not everywhere. Think 95% urban, 5% mild offroad. Love your videos!
I love my Outback and how it performs in rain and snow on hard surfaces, including most forest service roads. I wouldn’t consider rock crawling as a staple
Lol this is not rock crawling though.
So the new Silverado by your definition, with a single speed xfer case, is a soft off-roader?
Fure sure it is single speed t case and front bumper thats 4 inches from the ground!
Y'all gonna make me strip the air dam extender from my FX4 F150. ;-)
Yes, it is. Have you seen how low the chin spoiler sits? Have you also seen how few "Silverado off road" videos there are on here compared to say... Pretty much any other truck?
The standard "4wd" system is single speed, but the optional off-road package has lo-range. The single speed is more than what most truck drivers will ever use. Few truck owners do anything that couldn't be done with a Camry.
N Pooch true but that wasn’t the question. The question was whether or not the Silverado with a single speed TC is a soft off-roader. All indications point to yes. I guess GM realized there’s no need for a traditional 2 speed transfer case when the truck barely sits any higher than the aforementioned Camry to actually take it on roads where you’d need it. GM trucks in general aren’t good for much more than a dirt road with the exception of the ZR2 and perhaps the still untested Trail Boss
As you noted in your roller test, what wheels have what types of traction affect the system. I've never experienced the difficulty you have, but that's largely because I run some beefy all terrains. Though they're stock circumference and width, they're near bordering on off roads - at least as close as all terrains do (Kumho Road Ventures).
I almost had to yank a 4x4 out of a stuck spot in sand last month with my Subaru Ascent, because he was running street tires and I was cruising by on my beefy all terrains.
I just saw this now years later! 3 years ago I just got mad and missed your update! Thank you for giving the Outback a fair try.
been a mechanic for 45 yrs.When I worked for Nissan, at that time I owned a Subaru Tribeca. I had to tell customers constantly with Nissan pickups to put sandbags in the back of the bed in order to get traction in icy weather. Almost every year I pull Chevy, Fords and Nissan pick ups back onto the roads. Thats why the Olympics use Subaru.
I don't get it: You guys spent time and went all that way up the hill again, but didn't try all the alternatives. Why?
I would like to see a "Traction Control ON" & "X-Mode ON" version.
Someone mentioned holding the traction control off button for some seconds switches off VDC as well? I'd like to have seen that with Xmode on
I like my 2019 outback. Don't mind the CVT for daily driving either. I don't understand all the hate this car gets on this channel. I mean it gets me to all my camp sites just fine when all my friends have f250s, wranglers, Silverados etc. I don't plan on rock climbing or going super off-road with it. If I wanted that I would've gone a different route.
TFL you guys are awesome I'm loving the content
My uncle used to be a forester on a large estate in Scotland. He used Land Rovers for most of his career, but eventually switched to Subaru from the 80s onwards. He felt they were equally good in difficult terrain, provided better gas mileage and were much more reliable...which might be a low bar with Land Rover. Still, as a boy I remember going up hills in forests where there was only a rocky, muddy trail and the Subaru seemed to handle it well.
I have a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel w/ custom suspension system, 37" tires & engine tune that is a rock crawler & can also have high speed fun here in the Arizona desert. However I also have a stock 2013 outback & we take it camping, it's definitely capable enough for regular trails. Very fuel efficient too
I drove my Subaru over 300 miles on one tank of gas to watch this review in person. Would have gotten there sooner but the Titan needed a fill up.
Id like to see a 2000 Subaru do this.
Outback, Forester Impreza.
Would be interesting.
An 04 outback would destroy this trail
@@sparklygames71 I agree. Our 04 H6 feels strong and simple tires it does just fine on off-road areas I have been on.
@@yamahschector yeah my 2.5 would fly through just about anything with the right tires, like this winter they weren't able to plow the roads and there was about a foot and half to two feet of snow and mine just plowed right through, even with mud underneath.
My 01 2.5 outback would eat this if I had good tires poor college student life
Had zero issues with an 07 outback stick. Went places my tacoma even got stuck.
I am curious on how a model without the CVTw would do on the hill.
Tighe Hovington
There is no outback without a cvt
I have a 2008 Outback with a 4EAT.
It would kill it.
Like the forester with the turbo?
I meant before the CVT came out
In Canada at least, you could get it with a manual up until last year
Every one is complaining about the tires...they are testing the vehicles as they were sold! So if they change the tires on the subie then they could change the tires to better tires on the trucks...completely deaf eating the purpose. The Subaru is awesome in the right setting snow fire roads etc. Subaru should advertise accordingly and not say it can go anywhere! I have seen NO unfair testing here. Thanks for the amazing videos!
i think it's ALL about line choice - in all the cars you review, on any track or trail or even on a road of any surface. driving off or on road is about line choice. point any car or truck, soft roader off roader rock crawler or whatever, off trail, off line, or into a tree and it's not an off roader or a soft roader, it's a wreck. using momentum is also part of driving, on and off road.
the thing is, you see a lot of idiots buying rubicons or raptors or 4 cross titans that go to a 'work site' and use all those lockers and low ranges to effectively drive on gravel, in ways the subaru could to just as well.
and i don't think anyone here is arguing that a CVT is better than a locking diff switchable 4wd with low gear range off road. but when 90% + of the miles on the vehicle are onroad, the CVT is more efficient, and that's what makes it better for 99.9% of people buying them.
What you did with traction control off and X mode off made Subaru invent or make the X2 Mode, which allows for wheels to spin. Good job 👍🏻
For your next subaru video - Can you put a golden retriever in the driver's seat and see if it can go around the block?
The anti-subaru channel
More proof that less electronics is best. Let the fancy computers control my air conditioning and lights sure. But when it comes to off-roading, let the mechanical parts do the work.
They basically turned off two of Subaru's advanced AWD systems to clear that hill.
I am pretty sure that the Subaru Symmetrical AWD system uses two transfer cases, one in the front and one in the rear. The transfer case up front is right behind the transmission (inline with the drive shaft, symmetrical) and the other transfer case is built into the rear differential. This is why it does so well on ice it symmetrically transfers power all the time. Its a very intelligent system, and pairs very well with a CVT transmission. This video was a great example of why a professional driver can drive a slow car faster than an average driver. Its all about the line and your confidence in your ability of braking late holding your line and smooth power delivery. I bet a professional off road driver could drive a 2WD truck up that hill.
My 3.6 is 2011 it has limited slip differentials in the front and back and has a 5eat transmission in it. It doesn't limit the power like junk cvt's.The 2.5L does not have limited slip. . Due to vdc the differentials don't grab easy so it can torque vector. In my 3.6 if i apply the brakes and give it a little accelerator then start releasing the brakes all 4 tires will lock in. It has crawled up more than what you guys have. I would put it against the jeep Cherokee you guys have shown anyday .
I'm definitely a Subaru fanboy (Crosstrek owner and I enjoy it). I thought you guys gave it a fair shot first time out. I was always skeptical of how you would review it given the bad blood between you guys and Subaru, but I thought your tests were extremely fair.
Nice to see it finally make it up there haha
Would you recommend the Crosstrek? I'm actually on the market for a new car. But lately we have been taking more trips up the mountains...(snowboarding) plus both our families live up north....(snow country). We normally rent an AWD when we go boarding so I thought I might as well just get one.
The crosstrek is probably a great, cheap vehicle for snowy roads that get you up to the ski lodge. I think it has 8.7 ground clearance and AWD. That’s a lot of ground clearance for a little vehicle.
@@JhonnyGil101 I have a Crosstrek with AT tires on it, and I would drive up the canyons every weekend here in Utah to go boarding. It was terrific handling any snowy conditions.
I live in Northern NH on a steep narrow gravel road and have a 2014 Subaru Forester with CVT. When there is a winter thaw the thick base of snow turns mealy mush and is a real challenge for the car. In these conditions the car smells like burning after. Do you think that's the CVT?
Yes, make sure you have winter tires for better grip if you can afford them.
Studded tires all around for my 2008 Forester XT and it goes amazing here in WV with our crappy roads and weather, though its the 4 speed auto. When I test drove a 2015 Forester with the CVT I could immediately tell a difference and I hated it. I wouldn't own a Subaru past 2013.
Yes, Unfortunately I think the introduction of the CVT was a net negative for Subaru and I'm disappointed. The base model is still available in a standard transmission. Maybe that's the way to go.
Not anymore they are all CVT now
The smell is not necessarily the CVT. It's most likely the tires. I get this smell all the time doing long drives in winter conditions and my car has a 6MT.
As a Subaru fan, I'm glad this video triggers the fanboys and Subaru corporate as well. Now we know why Subaru won't send TFLT any vehicles, it will just end up as bad advertising. I miss my gen 1 and gen 2 Foresters, they were tanks......minus the exploding head gaskets, rotting fuel filler necks, wheel bearings that lasted no more than 10k miles, leaking cam seals, valve covers, spark plug gasket seals and that special $5 seal in the back of the engine that required you to drop the transmission just to get to it. Oh yea, I forgot about the piston slap you'd hear when you first start up a cold engine. While we are at it, let's not forget the nice rattle the exhaust heat shields would produce which required you to burn off the shields with a torch. But hey, you were great in the snow.
I bought into the hype and bought an '04 Legacy years ago and have never had so many problems with a vehicle. It was amazing in the snow and went places offroad that it had no business being (this was before the computer traction control BS took over all new cars) but it was hands-down the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned. The fact that Subaru got butthurt about the first video and won't loan them cars to test is a real chicken move on their behalf and just goes to show they know their vehicle won't live up to the hype. I swore off owning another one years ago when I traded up to Ford truck and haven't looked back, seeing how they handled this situation plus the lack of constant repairs on my truck strengthen my position that I won't be buying another Subaru again.
I agree on the gen 2 Forester. The early ones were beasts. They towed 2400 lbs and I pulled a 1900 lb pop up for thousands of miles including all over the mountains with my 2004X and 2007 Premium (manual trannys). I still kick myself for not buying the 04 Turbo Forester. Fifteen extra dollars a month. Stupid, stupid stupid. Oh well a road not taken. It was the only one to have the STi motor (detuned). 2005 forward were the uptuned 2.4.
The big change occurred in like 2005 when they hired the Marketing guy as CEO. The differences between my 04 and 07 reflect his input I believe. Subaru had been an engineers brand but didn't sell enough vehicles. The Marketing guy addressed that...at the expense of engineering. My 07 Premium was NOT the same vehicle as my 04. Although essentially the same vehicle, The changed the power torque ratio and the steering wheel to wheel turns AND softer springs. I ended up having to put "pinks" springs on the 07 to keep the back end flat on the 07. There was virtually no sag on the 04 with OEM springs. I really noticed the difference between the two on the Eisenhower tunnel run West of Denver. The 04 was a beast running forty in third. The 07 forced me into second at 30 to get up the Eisenhower run. And it didn't like it. The 04 was like give me more.
We just got rid of our 2010 Forester X at 105K miles (last of the old auto tranny). It was the most reliable lowest maintenance vehicle I ever owned and still towed 2400 lbs (although we didn't). It was the last and it took us through some rough stuff mostly snow reliably.
We now have a 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk with the V6 and a 4500 lb tow rating. We will see on that one particularly reliability. So, now Foresters are simply "me too" SUV's directly competing with the CRV's and Rav4's Mazda blah blahs...that can't tow anything. It does still have a better more rounded "real" all wheel drive system than the others but the distinctions are not there any longer...imho. That's why we went Jeep. I doubt it will be as reliable, but rear lockers, and the V6 will go places towing something no Subaru ever could.
Can't use momentum is some horse shit. It's a go anywhere vehicle, not a technical marvel. I've seen a Geo Metro go up a trail like that with the right driver....
We had great experiences with our 2004 Outback, bu we did have the head gasket and bearing issues. Every other problem (and then some) showed up on our 2009 Tribeca that you mentioned. I had one of those not good laughs as you were right on the money. That being said, although there is a place for these Subaru AWD's (they're incredibly capable vehicles), but as with everything... there are truly limits and people should know this. I'm still a fan of the Outback and Forester, but we need channels like TFL to put these vehicles in perspective/context.
UnsulliedSpy it's funny everyone has a different opinion of a brand. I went from a Subaru to a brand new Ford F150 and I've had 3 warranty repair issues (faulty waste gate, leaking rear window and a leaking oil pan) in 2 years of owner ship so far and I had to replace the rear brakes after 4000 miles of driving it off the lot because they developed a grinding sound when braking. I'm dying to get back in a Subaru when I'm done with this truck. All the issues I've had have just reaffirmed I'll never buy a Ford again. Compared to my Subaru Impreza WRX that never had a single problem.
I would never buy a crossover to go off-roading anyways, good to see you guys care about your viewers. Not many do these days, at least as genuine as you guys seem.
I just got a 2015 2.5i outback. I'm a stay-at-home mom that owns a piece of land in the high mountains of New Mexico. Well, I took my kiddos out to go check on the land and I made the wrong turn while I was busy singing to a musical of some sort. I, of course, realized it was a wrong turn when the loose rocks and dirt began slipping down a large cliff. No place to turn around for a few miles and I was terrified. Xmode was turned on and I no longer felt fear. My car was perfect. SO many steep hills like the ones in the video and we made it up! On the way down I used hill descent and it took care of us again. My husband was so glad he got us that car because I really don't think my Odyssey would have handled that steep and scary road.
My 1999 Outback manual with dual range can get in most places, though it does need a lift kit.
Mine was the same. The Outback always had shit approach and departure angles compared to the Forrester.
should use same. tires to be fair...
Agree then see if it is the tires or the vehicle
They can't be spending $600 on tires every time they review a car. They do that with their long term test vehicles, but it really didn't matter with the Subaru. The transmission wasn't allowing the factory tires to spin, so theres no point in getting better traction.
I would love to see you do with with better tires
was thinking that too. A LOT of it looked like poor traction.
You can't switch off Traction Control (TC) in this car, like in most of other cars. What you switch off is Dynamic Stability Control (DSC). TC and DSC have a totally different function. TC takes care of breaking any spinning wheel or wheels, and wile breaking the spinning wheel, power is forced to flow to the wheel (or wheels) with grip. DSC takes care of a other problem: If you cut a corner to fast and car starts making a move sideway, the DSC system will apply the breaks on the inside of the corner en throttle (power) will be released on the outside of the corner and the car will me forced to follow the line that you had in mind ;-) So, if you are standing on a hillclimb, with full throttle with spinning wheels turning the wheels from left to right, the DSC system will detect the slightest movement of the car from left to the right and 'thinks' it will fly out of a corner, wich result in DSC doing it's job: loss of power and breaking activities wich you don't want at that moment.... So: Don't turn off DSC, keep your wheels in a straight line and slowly build up throttle en keep up building that op while wheels (mostly crossaxled situation) start spinning and don't leave throttle, but keep building it up slowly so that the TC sensors in the wheels can pick op the signal of spinning wheels and break these spinning wheels, while power will be forced to go to the wheels that carry most weight or have the most grip. Stop using throttle untill your on top, but stop when 4 wheels are spinning (in that case you don't have 4x4, but 0x0:)
Same story when I had a '12 Forester. It had decent traction but with no low range and a lack of torque it just didn't have the power to get over much of anything.
A CVT is not for slow and high torque applications. You might be able to climb the rock, but what you do not see is the wear and damage that is internal to the transmission. If you do it regularly, it will cost you big repair bills.
True. But people buy these Outbacks like they're going out of style here in Colorado because of the mountains. I know a few people who live up very steep, long, dirt driveways.
This is mainly a station wagon with awd for wet/icy roads... It has nothing to do with real off roading
You are exactly right. And it does a great job at what it was designed for.
Fan boys wont agree lololol. If I wanted to off road Id just buy a side by side
Yeah true but They advertise go anywhere I had one and loved it you have to know your limitations
so i take it you dozed off during the section of this video where it clearly shows that subaru was marketing this vehicle doing what it obviously isnt very good at.
Tahoe King good point I mean how many drivers would actually everyday day say hey honey let’s start going off road for now on, it should be for extreme snow ice roads
Did Subaru ever reply to this video? did you think about sending this to Subaru center and see if you get a reply?
maybe even ask Subaru directly?
Subaru would probably repo the car 😂
Apparently you are not aware of the bad blood between TFLC and Subaru. Long story but you could look it up.
6foot6 E actually, Subaru financing uses Chase. So Chase owns the vehicle.
I fully agree with Trace because all of our older Subarus did not come with x-mode we just relied on the ability of four wheels to pull and it made it go we didn't need that but the VDC is something they came up with even back in the old l.l.Bean Outbacks that you had to pay extra for and it made them almost unstoppable. the VDC basically replaces your limited-slip so instead of a differential clutch it uses active braking which basically in turn wind up with position traction front and rear. I'm sorry for typing a book it's just that I have had so many of these and researched the so intently to understand how each one of my different Subaru operated so that I would be able to utilize them to the best of each of their abilities. Most of mine had LSD rear ends but when I got my 99 Forester I had to drive a little differently because it had an open rear differential. But like I said if you had VDC anywhere vehicle or an LSD rear axle as several Subaru models do then it won't matter if you have wheels in the air you can literally stop crossways in a ditch with two of the wheels two feet in the air up East and sit there and then he's off without spinning a wheel it's amazing.
I traded in my 05 Wrangler Unlmited with 91k miles for a 2022 Outback Premium. The Jeep was so fun but I'm more into comfort and mpg's. The comfort is unreal. The Jeep was noisy, bumpy, thirsty, etc. Great vehicle, dont get me wrong. It was just time. First week of driving the Outback I drove a little over 300 miles on half a tank. My Jeep would have been on empty before that.
This is really weird, I have taken my old forester up mountains, in snow storms, no issues.
You may have a traditional auto transmission. CVT transmissions are a mistake.
Older Subaru's are better built.Good in snow and rain.
I have a standard 2010 Forester that I have taken to lots of bush roads and remote camping. The thing is to take your time and be well equipped . I carry. 2 spare tyres. Extra battery. Shovel, axe and traction mats. Plus a CB radio.
The only item I do not have is a winch. There;s usually someone with a 4X4 or a Ranger to tow you if you get bogged.
I have seen Foresters and Outbacks fitted with a winch in my travels.I would love one but it would be expensive to buy and have fitted.
The son is soooooo geeky lol, he is geek personified, I love it!
Take the 2020 XT for another round, thanks for the great reviews.
2020 outdoor(onyx) xt 2.4 turbo has to be an improvement.
The other thing that you got to consider, is that Subaru is not like jeep, which is an off-roading and rock crawling company. Subaru puts a lot of its focus into rally car racing, which explains why the cars are more designed to carry momentum well and fight for traction and stability. Simply put a jeep is designed to go up a rocky hill and a subaru is designed to go around a curve on a dirt road really fast. And another thing for subarus with CVTs is that subaru tunes the engine of the car to produce max power and torque at different rpms, (or at least it does with my crosstrek) so the key to going up hills and stuff is to watch the revs and keep it between 3000-4000 rpm. Granted, keeping the revs there is really hard to do while trying to crawl up a hill, which is why the momentum factor is really helping with the hillclimbs on subarus. That, and you can buy decent all terrain tires for subarus.
I do agree, a locking diff helps a ton when getting through tough terrain. However, fit that outback with similar tires as the titan, and it should have no issue. When the wheels did have enough power, they couldn't grab traction on the dry loose dirt. The outback is capable of having ALL but 1 of the "7 things needed to offroad" and that's the locking diff. However, Torq manufactures a locking diff easily installable into most subarus. The average person who drives an outback is an elderly person that wants safety on the road and a comfortable grocery getter. The average person who drives an outback and takes it offroad, fits it with tires, diff, lift, etc. Level the playing field and the outback would do much better than the titan in many cases, due to a shorter wheelbase. Of course a car with less aggressive tires and more road turned suspension wont keep with with a truck outfitted specifically for offroad. Try taking the 2020 Onyx Edition outback for a spin. Good luck getting that thing stuck. Also, not to be rude, but offroading is about being smarter, not making the car work harder. Unless you want to break your car. Subarus handle unlike any other car offroad. They get traction in complete different ways and have complete different tactics for getting through rough terrain.
But you can't _fully_ turn off VDC nor Traction control without pulling the ABS fuse. I have high hopes for "dual" x-mode. . . we'll see.
Good job - I also thought that no X-mode and no TC would get it through there.
I would have expected you to try X-Mode on and traction control off, just to see if there was any difference.
They did in the first video
Did you have xmode 2? It locks up your diffs and gives full throttle (sport mode), then lock up your gearbox with manual and attack the hill - you will get more wheels spin of course!
Dropping tyre pressure to 15 psi will double your contact patch and more aggressive tyres will double traction again but you guys know that. I know you where testing it in standard form.
We love our Outbacks downunder in Oz - that's where they were bred. You guys have a great channel - keep up the good work.