THANK YOU for exposing/documenting that Joseph Smith had access to Resources/Inspirational Sources .... AND had the interest.....AND HAD THE TIME.... to create "The Book of Mormon"
As a 75 year old long-time member of the church, I have never thought that Joseph was merely an ignorant farm-boy. I also believe that this line of thought is very rare in the church.... at least among those that are not ignorant farm-boys.
Facinating insights! Thanks to both of you for this presentation. Keep them coming. We need access to Jonathan's annotated D&C for our Come Follow Me study this year!
Great guest and ideas. Joseph was willing to leave all the churches behind, to go to the source directly. That is so hard for us. Yet it is the first commandment to have no other gods before our Father, no men we follow. Yes we can read and should from tons of sources and yes as you say our faith can handle it. It is the following of men and organized religion that stops our growth. As Nephi said "I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm” (from Jeremiah). Joseph did not and he was blessed. Yet we all want to follow the leaders so we are not seeking from the source but only following man.
some great spiritual insights from this short discussion from both of you thanks so much neville, along with hannah stoddard, has such a strong testimony of joseph smith and has given great detailed accounts of his life thanks for having him on so often
Thanks Steven and Jonathan for these conversations and I agree with a lot. I have more respect for who Joseph Smith was in reality than the correlated narrative or Sunday School mythology.
Catholic here. Thank you for this information. I have always felt a colonial revivalist flavor in Alma’s and BOM others (sorry I cant recall their names) preaching. Kings Benjamin’s sermons also borrow from the likes of George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, Gilbert Tennent, Jonathan Dickinson, and Samuel Davies. The BOM is so fascinating to me. Historical fiction imo but brilliant Protestant Americana pioneer colonial literature.
@MormonBookReviews You may want to share with Jonathan regarding two other sources for Joseph Smith that he alluded to. Joseph's Uncle Jesse Smith. One is a letter sent from Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith in June 17, 1829 while the book of mormon was being produced in which he said "that God with whom you thus trifle, is of purer eyes than to behold iniquity he cannot look on sin with any degree of approbation or complacency" which Joseph copied into the Book of Mormon into Alma 45:16 as “The Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance” . Jesse also in the same year, if not the same time Joseph was living with him had to write a declaration against being taxed to support the church he had previously attended and appear and declare that to the church and government. The verbiage in that certificate to legally opt out of the tax uses the same verbiage and arguments that Joseph would later employ in the Book of Mormon regarding ministers being supported by the people to get gain, etc. John W. Welch wrote an article about it entitled "The Smiths and Religious Freedom: Jesse Smith's 1814 Church Tax Protest" and it provides the actual wording of the Certificate.
Smith made use of both Biblical and contemporaneous phraseology in his scriptural writings. What is unigue to Smith, however, is his use of familiar religious ideas and his reworking of the material to give it a more enlightened symbolic meaning than in the original usage. For example, Smith borrowed the term “the natural man” from Edwards. But if you read Smith carefully, you will find that he equates the natural man to be analogous to the devil. I don't think that comes from Edwards.
Thank you once again, Steven and Jonathan! About Joseph’s preparation: He was called as a prophet in the pre-mortal world. We all lived with our Heavenly Father as spirit children before we came to earth (which I often explain to people as an elderly grandma & ward missionary!) Joseph recorded a vision in the Book of Abraham. Abraham 3:22, 23: “Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good…” Joseph Smith was one of these.
..was going to respond to a member of my Sunday School class, as to Joseph Smith's lack of 'education' and let it stand, although I knew about Jonathan Edward's influence in his early life, as espoused by Bro Neville.
Natural man is sn enemy to God was not from Jonathan Edwards. It is from the Bible! There have many different viewpoints by antis and apostates, all except true one, that he was a true prophet inspired by God!!!
It's all fine and dandy to say now anyone can be like Joseph Smith and get their own revelations from God but that is how the church gets Chad Daybels and Lori Vallows. Also I do believe they think of themselves as being martrys while they rot in prison.
Jonathan Edwards is known for his great influence in America on the great awakening movement and his book "Justification by Faith Alone." How can you say Joseph's written spiritual style was copied but not his more cbvious "saved by grace theology"?
THANK YOU for exposing/documenting that Joseph Smith had access to Resources/Inspirational Sources .... AND had the interest.....AND HAD THE TIME.... to create "The Book of Mormon"
As a 75 year old long-time member of the church, I have never thought that Joseph was merely an ignorant farm-boy. I also believe that this line of thought is very rare in the church.... at least among those that are not ignorant farm-boys.
Great information - thanks!
Great interview Steve!
@@t.thompson9977 thanks!
Facinating insights! Thanks to both of you for this presentation. Keep them coming. We need access to Jonathan's annotated D&C for our Come Follow Me study this year!
Another great one. Jonathan Neville continues his work.
Great guest and ideas. Joseph was willing to leave all the churches behind, to go to the source directly. That is so hard for us. Yet it is the first commandment to have no other gods before our Father, no men we follow. Yes we can read and should from tons of sources and yes as you say our faith can handle it. It is the following of men and organized religion that stops our growth. As Nephi said "I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm” (from Jeremiah). Joseph did not and he was blessed. Yet we all want to follow the leaders so we are not seeking from the source but only following man.
Thanks for having Jonathan on again. He always has interesting perspectives.
Another great episode Steven. I love Jonathan’s work. Keep bringing him back 😉
some great spiritual insights from this short discussion from both of you
thanks so much
neville, along with hannah stoddard, has such a strong testimony of joseph smith and has given great detailed accounts of his life
thanks for having him on so often
Thanks Steven and Jonathan for these conversations and I agree with a lot. I have more respect for who Joseph Smith was in reality than the correlated narrative or Sunday School mythology.
Catholic here. Thank you for this information. I have always felt a colonial revivalist flavor in Alma’s and BOM others (sorry I cant recall their names) preaching. Kings Benjamin’s sermons also borrow from the likes of George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, Gilbert Tennent, Jonathan Dickinson, and Samuel Davies. The BOM is so fascinating to me. Historical fiction imo but brilliant Protestant Americana pioneer colonial literature.
@MormonBookReviews You may want to share with Jonathan regarding two other sources for Joseph Smith that he alluded to. Joseph's Uncle Jesse Smith. One is a letter sent from Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith in June 17, 1829 while the book of mormon was being produced in which he said "that God with whom you thus trifle, is of purer eyes than to behold iniquity he cannot look on sin with any degree of approbation or complacency" which Joseph copied into the Book of Mormon into Alma 45:16 as “The Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance” .
Jesse also in the same year, if not the same time Joseph was living with him had to write a declaration against being taxed to support the church he had previously attended and appear and declare that to the church and government. The verbiage in that certificate to legally opt out of the tax uses the same verbiage and arguments that Joseph would later employ in the Book of Mormon regarding ministers being supported by the people to get gain, etc. John W. Welch wrote an article about it entitled "The Smiths and Religious Freedom: Jesse Smith's 1814 Church Tax Protest" and it provides the actual wording of the Certificate.
Thank you for this.
Well, that's not good
Smith made use of both Biblical and contemporaneous phraseology in his scriptural writings. What is unigue to Smith, however, is his use of familiar religious ideas and his reworking of the material to give it a more enlightened symbolic meaning than in the original usage. For example, Smith borrowed the term “the natural man” from Edwards. But if you read Smith carefully, you will find that he equates the natural man to be analogous to the devil. I don't think that comes from Edwards.
Thank you once again, Steven and Jonathan!
About Joseph’s preparation:
He was called as a prophet in the pre-mortal world.
We all lived with our Heavenly Father as spirit children before we came to earth (which I often explain to people as an elderly grandma & ward missionary!)
Joseph recorded a vision in the Book of Abraham. Abraham 3:22, 23: “Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good…”
Joseph Smith was one of these.
I just went on the Gradin tour on 1/20! It was so cool.
..was going to respond to a member of my Sunday School class, as to Joseph Smith's lack of 'education' and let it stand, although I knew about Jonathan Edward's influence in his early life, as espoused by Bro Neville.
This is not good for the case of the BOM being of devine origin. Im sorry I can do mental gymastic at the amateur level but not the olympic level.
Johnathan is great
Natural man is sn enemy to God was not from Jonathan Edwards. It is from the Bible! There have many different viewpoints by antis and apostates, all except true one, that he was a true prophet inspired by God!!!
It's all fine and dandy to say now anyone can be like Joseph Smith and get their own revelations from God but that is how the church gets Chad Daybels and Lori Vallows. Also I do believe they think of themselves as being martrys while they rot in prison.
Jonathan Edwards is known for his great
influence in America on the great awakening movement
and his book "Justification by Faith Alone." How can you say Joseph's written spiritual style was copied but not his more cbvious "saved by grace theology"?
Why do you have a picture of someone else under the name Joseph Smith.
That photo was recently discovered and some researchers believe it is Joseph Smith.
Helen Mar Kimball.
What about her?
fake news just like all the after the fact bogus wives
🇨🇭🇨🇭🇨🇭
Mads Madison is tired of being called Joseph Smith!