MELTING the DOOM Iceberg...
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Caution: This video contains themes such as Columbine, if these topics are a source of discomfort then please skip this one.
Responding to @Midnighthalo's "Disturbing DOOM Iceberg" video. (No offense intended btw. This is purely for informative and entertainment purposes!) 
Игры
Holy. I didnt know I got that much wrong in the iceberg video. Thanks for the feedback man, I appreciate it. When researching the hanged man sprite stuff, all I could find were threads analizying and talking about how the sprite was from Mussolinni and his lover, so I took it as a fact. Should have double checked with more people just to be sure. The Icebergs I did were based of off Icebergs I found on r/doom. And most of them feature Doom Eternal stuff, so getting one together was a pain to say the least. The video took me 2+ weeks to make, and I am happy with the result. It just sucks that I got a lot of stuff wrong. Gonna make sure to triple check everything before I post xd. Awesome video man, I enjoyed it a lot!
Everyone gets stuff wrong at one time or another, but it takes a strong person to admit when you're wrong. Huge props, Midnight.
Thanks a lot for taking this video the right way, Midnight! I was worried when you saw it some of my little edits would piss you off, but you absolutely took what I said on board by the sounds of things. Thanks a lot for commenting here, man. (GmanLives was NOT one bit happy when I made a similar response to him a couple years ago, haha!)
2 weeks? Really? Because you said 3 months when you were begging for subs in the video
I think most people get icebergs wrong, really, so it's not like you're in bad company! :P
So are you going to update your pinned comment pointing out the wrong info, or are you going to do nothing about the misinformation you just spread?
Between the supposed Kurt Cobain suicide reference, the hanging mussolini sprite, and with Doom being blamed for Columbine, it really surprises me how much some people believe Doom is a lot more edgier than it actually is, when in reality the most shocking thing about the game is the fact that the Cacodemon has two gaping cloacas.
This is a Doomer who sees the BIGGER picture, folks.
but they're cute, and I want one as a pet >:v
i usually think this joke format is hack but i’m gonna say it anyway bc its true: gaping cloacas is a killer band name.
i agree 1000% w u, i was thinking the same exact thing when i saw the original video!
I didn't even know what a "cloaca" is until I read this post.
Thank you. You managed to creep me out harder than anyone involved in this.
I'm surprised that Midnight said that someone could have unknowingly played the Harris levels. Maybe back in the early days of Doom when wads got passed around, but within the past 20 years or so they're well-known and notorious. I don't think they're available on Doomworld either, so you'd have to knowingly search for those maps to play them. Considering their age, I doubt anyone would even be interested in playing them, apart from morbid curiosity.
How was Midnight's video exactly as low effort and unresearched as I expected?
Another great video, Doomkid :)
What's surprising is that he dedicates so. much time on Doom and yet he knows so little about it
How was it low effort?..
@@ToxikDeth I don't know if that's the right term, but it comes off as such with the amount of blatant misinformation it has. After all, it's easier to create something based on "fun" speculation than "boring" reality.
14:39 but... MURICA
Excellent video as always Doomkid! Learnt a lot about Doom trivia that wasn't really sure if was true or not, such as the hanging man sprites and the Nirvana reference
It's funny how myths can evolve and spread in culture out of mere rumours and assumptions
Ah,can't wait for midnight to remove his video as it once happened when you did a video response to gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggmanlives.
That video by Gmanlives was embarassing. He improved a bit over the years but his behaviour is not something you would expect from a 30+ year old
love this style of video you've made here. might make something like this myself if your fine with that
Sure man, feel free
I tend to feel interested in any youtube channel that talks about Doom (that is how I knew Doomkid's channel btw), but I must say I haven't got the urge to subscribe this "Midnight" one. I know it was not the kind of thing Doomkid wanted with this video response, but this "iceberg" looks just like a lot of random Internet myths pilled together. I could tell some things were wrong because I'm a Doom fan for a long time now, but I feel I could get many misinformation from that channel if I were watching a video about a subjective I know little of.
And, man!, there are so many more things that could be add to this "iceberg". Like, Doomguy is actually dead after E1M8?! Does imps really shows they're, uh... "*" when dead (specially in Doom64)? Why cacodemons have the two back holes? Doomguy's life stuff. The "porn movie ideology" of the first game. Where the... uh,hell do a demon goes when it dies?! Would demons starve if manking gets extinct? Is Hell a planet (demons got into Io buy a ship, for example)? Were Doomguy (re)killing his beloved ones as they were killed in earth and becoming demons in Hell? Was he all fear before he got all rage? Was killing Daisy the biggest mistake of Hell? Just to name a feel.
And I'm also not sure if fan made WADs should be considered. Because, if so, things just like the "do it" WAD would be much more disturbing to talk about. Or the use of photos of real gore used to create pixel art in some older versions of... certain famous Doom mods. The all shitload of "Grezzo2". Or even, if you take Brazilian Doom community in account (way too specific, I know, but anyway), the "MateDaleste.wad", that recreates the moment of the murdering of a br funk singer and shows general distate for poor people.
Man, I feel even I could make a video about this subject and be more careful with the research.
BTW, I forgot to mention: about the art style consistency, among with those hanging corpses sprites/textures, I also always felt that the archvile's sprites do not fit the rest of the game somehow. I mean, compared to imp's, the arch's skin seems something from another game to me.
Anyway, just saying. :B
I think all those topics you mentioned would be totally perfect for a “real” Doom iceberg video. (Although I’m not a huge fan of the “iceberg” format, since it’s been done to death - would rather it just be presented as “10 spooky Doom facts” or something along those lines!
I think this topic is a interesting demonstration on how quickly misinformation can become "fact" without the proper research or evidence to back it up. Like how the school shooter apparently made a map resembling his school; which was potentially possible (e.g., he created maps and wads) but didn't. Or the wives tale of "carrots help you see in the dark", when in truth that was some propaganda made up in WW2 to explain how the British saw the bombers coming; disguising the fact that they had Radar. It's just part of our lexicon of facts someone once told us that we just simply accepted as fact.
Interestingly enough on the hanged men; that probably came about from a lack of imagination. Kinda like when Jack the Ripper was about; one of the first people they suspected was an actor who played a serial killer because "only evil people would know evil things." Just because they illustrate dark subjects doesn't necessarily mean that the people took joy from putting terrible footage in game; these folks were looking to recreate hell in all it's twisted glory. Thus people just assumed that the creators had a fetish for slapping in dark subjects when, you know, demon slaying is the most Christian activity imaginable. XD
Likewise with the Archvile; Jesus's symbol was a cross because it was a Roman style of execution which took advantage of the biomechanics of the body (e.g. It's incredibly painful position to remain overextended in), so it only makes sense that it is one of the shapes we as people can take. It's like suggesting the T-pose is a reference to Jesus.
Good comment right here, Lord Biscuit the Tossable.
@@DoomKid Don't quote me though, I am also an unreliable source! XD
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 You are completely correct when it comes to any Jesus imagery. As a Christian, part of the beauty of His death was that He turned a brutal, humiliating, torturous death into a saving grace. But it WAS just happenstance, if the Romans used a different method to execute people, the Archviles would raise their pale hands all the same.
Doomkid really said "Hi Midnight, hope you’re doing well. This is inaccurate."
I learned all I know from Romero!
I'd note that in the 90s, it wasn't weird to recreate your house, your workplace, or your school, in Doom, it was just a thing people did and it wasn't thought of as weird.
Potentially Eric and Dylan could have made one like that, could have been before they had any serious thoughts about violence, or perhaps after as urban legend repeatedly insists, but either way there's no evidence they did.
This is very true, both sentences. I remade several homes I've lived in and even a grocery store and office I worked at in the late 2000s. My friends at the jobs thought they were cool and funny, there was nothing sinister read into it.
It's not even weird today. I think one of the most simple approaches when someone starts mapping, is to recreate their house/apartment, since they're the most familiar with that area.
Surely, it's not a 1:1 recreation since it lacks a lot of assets, but at the very least it helps at learning some of the basics.
Yea, I've recreated my house in a crappy megawad as a secret level.
You should do a Doom iceberg, archive all the obscure 90s Doom wads and Ingame trivia
Now that I think about it, it's a good idea
a 90s wad iceberg would be amazing
"Layer 11: All Doom maps with arrows are bad"
I hate iceberg explained memes so much so safe to say I enjoyed this video. Your chill approach to topics is something I admire.
Thanks Tickleson!
Honestly it would be hilarious to see Doomkid make a joke video of himself acting like a modern overenthusiastic gaming youtuber
One thing that would be neat to have in the iceberg is that when John and co broke in with the thermite, and got caught, one of the questions he was asked was whether he'd do it again if he wasn't caught. He said he probably would do it again, which is what got him into problems. "You know you shouldn't be telling me that you'll do it again." "I said if I weren't caught, goddamnit!"
The thing is, I really don’t think it’s *that* bad of a crime. I mean, yes, he was attempting to steal school property, but it wasn’t out of malicious intent; certainly not enough to put him in a juvenile center. The dude just wanted to code and work with a computer.
@@rustylasagna Carmack himself would tell you that theft is theft, computers aren't free.
Caution: This video contains themes such as Columbine, if these topics are a source of discomfort then please skip this one.
Responding to Midnight's "Disturbing DOOM Iceberg" video. (No offense intended btw. This is purely for informative and entertainment purposes!)
And I would even doubt that not even the map sketches from Harris's journal aren't even based on the floor plans of CHS either.
Flesh textures are from animals ??? No they are from ID employees skin rashes and bloody cuts. This is all detailed in the masters of doom book. How can he be SOOO wrong !?!?
Also for layers 6-9 this is some surface level information. Like almost all his topics were stuff both decino and Civvie already covered.
Midnight doesn't deserve even half of the views he has, all of his videos are low effort and full of clickbait. He also does everything possible to stretch the videos and put more ads on them. Some time ago everyone was dunking on him and he said he would try to be better, but nothing really changed.
Fun fact: He made a video titled "Broke a Doom world record" where he tries to speedrun E1M1 on GZDoom with default settings and mouselook.
The e1m1 video was a joke video genius, you're just salty about someone's success.
I don’t mind the ads, i understand he wants to be a career RUclipsr. I just wish he’d get his facts straight!
He's just boring.
If he could get so many facts wrong of course he could think that a speedrun could be done on GZDoom with freelook on.
I actually like Midnight and his lore videos but dang, the dude REALLY needs to do better research!
My absolute favorite RUclipsr that evolves completely around Doom.
Thanks VentoliN!
Melting! What a world, what a world. Keep fighting the good fight, sir. 👍
you should make some videos explaining classic 90s doom stuff, like old mappers, or trolls, or weird stuff. i dont know much about old doom.
He definitely stole the gargoyle + Mussolini facts from decino. It could be a coincidence, but both these facts (which are presented back to back on Midnight's video) are featured on decino's video "More Interesting Findings About Doom's Graphics". They way they are presented is very similar; showing that one gargoyle on google street view, mentioning the street which doesn't exist, mentioning how the hanged man sprites don't fit the artstyle of doom, and so on. Though unlike Midnight, decino made it clear that the Mussolini stuff was just speculation.
For the Archviles, Midnight couldve easily mentioned how their death cry is a pitch-shifted recording of a girl saying "why", which was confirmed by Bobby Prince. Much cooler fact than Archies vaguely looking like a cross before their attacks- hell, the attack itself looks more like a cross than the Archvile.
I think the arch-vile thing is a reference to the stigmata on its wrists, but I guess that fact turned into a game of telephone that culminated with "the archvile looks like a burning cross." That's just my theory.
@@doomstuff1 wait it’s got stigmata? Never realised that
@Mike Matei Inspector Gadget At least according to Doom Wiki. Honestly, it's hard to tell with how pixelated the game is, but I think it's there on a couple of frames.
When I first watched it, the first thing that came to my mind when I was finished was “why was there so much time given to Harris?” I mean like, this is a DOOM iceberg! There should be DOOM trivia not crap about some psycho!
Sandy is a Mormon, he has talked about how he believes that doom is too cartoonish for anyone to take offense.
That being said I doubt he would reference a suicide intentionally. I hope a band called "The Waste Tunnels" doesn't also have a member commit suicide, because that would be a prophetic vision from Sandy.
Sorry, but I find it extremely hard to believe that a map made before Kurt Cobain's suicide would accidentally predict his suicide right down to a T.
And it's not just the fact that the map was named Nirvana, but the title of the track used, along with the shotgun as well.
And yes, I'm fully aware that the word, "Nirvana", is found within Buddhist literature, but like I said, it's a combination of Nirvana, the title track, and the shotgun being in the middle of the room, as a way to almost highlight all of it combined.
I know that coincidences happen, but that's a little too on the nose for me to call a coincidence.
I know I'll be called a coocoo bird for this comment, but I just don't buy the whole, "it was just a coincidence, bro", lol.
And I'm not even saying that the guy had this devious plot with Kurt Cobain commiting suicide either, but rather, in my opinion, I think it was just one of life's mysteries that we don't fully understand.
My main point is this:
Saying for a fact that it was just a coincidence is just as bad as me saying that it's fact that he accurately prophesized Cobain's suicide, and doesn't really, "melt", the iceberg in that sense.
In my honest opinion, I definitely think there was some sort of weird thing going on with that accurate prediction, and not even necessarily a prophesy, per se.
Think of it with the whole Simpsons predicting things that have taken place.
I don't specifically think Matt Groening knew the Simpsons would eerily predict certain future events, but rather, I think it was just one of life's many weird synchronicities.
That's just my take on it.
@@shaunrocks12 It’s absolutely a coincidence, without any shred of a doubt. Sandy has denied it and had/has very little knowledge of contemporary music, and Nirvana was not among the CDs given to Bobby Prince, so none of the older id crew really even knew about the band. Also, there are a bunch of map names following the same formula (“Nirvana” is on the way to “The Spirit World”, for example- it’s referencing eastern spiritual terms), There are a *bunch* of maps where you start with an SG or SSG in front of you, this is no different - not to mention, why deliberately place the *wrong* shotgun if it’s an intentional reference?
Now, on the note that it could be a prophecy - I don’t necessarily believe in that stuff, but I definitely give it more credit than them intentionally doing it!
Just as a little final note, the song Countdown to Death is used in multiple other Doom2 and iwad maps. But hey, maybe there was some strange prophesising going on!
@@DoomKid
I'm using the whole, "it's not a coincidence", argument the wrong way, I think.
Now that I think about it, I believe I was unintentionally saying that Sandy Petersen had a role in Cobain's death, and it's no coincidence in that sense that he would reference Cobain's "suicide" before it happened, which is not really what I meant, so I was incorrect there.
I guess what I meant was that it was a sort of prophecy, or unintentional psychic prediction, as crazy as that may sound.
I personally believe in that stuff, but I definitely respect your position on it as well.
It's a theory anyway, lol.
Either way, it's still strange, in my opinion, heh.
@@shaunrocks12wow, that is a very outlandish theory
@@shaunrocks12 Sandy killed him and the map was his confession
Carmack has empathy, he was trying to steal those PCs for other people too! I'm convinced the "brain on legs" is the spider mastermind. Even the name makes sense, I heard he used to be reclusive at the office & he was also a boss =P
I feel like he forgot that "nirvana" is a real word, not just a band's name.
0:45 This is such a pet peeve of mine. I NEVER like when a RUclipsr dedicates a whole section of their script to telling me to like their video, especially not when they explicitly mention "The Algorithm." But if they HAVE to say it, I'd much rather it be toward the end of the video after I've seen the meat of the content, not at the beginning before I've actually had the chance to see if it's good. It completely kills the pacing, and it just tells me that, to the creator, my enjoyment of the video comes second to the boost it'll give them in the algorithm. That move is just more likely to get me to stop watching. You can turn it into a clever joke, and sometimes that works for me, but "Like this video if you're a REAL fan of DOOM" is not clever.
Sorry, rant over. TL;DR good video Doomkid, and I agree with your stance on telling people to "smash the like button."
What's messed up is Eric did admit to the psychologist he was seeing, Kevin Albert, that he was homicidal and suicidal. He also told him the medication he was on, Zoloft, was making it worse. All that came out of it was him getting switched to Luvox. His Dr. didn't actually do anything to address the problems he brought up. Even crazier is if you look him up online he's gotten really unfavorable reviews by other patients as well.
Columbine was a failure on multiple different levels, they wanted to blame Doom, music they listened to, the clothes they wore--anything but the actual problems that caused & contributed it to happening. All the warning signs both boys displayed were ignored.
Thank you for the insightful comment, I had no idea he was actually telling someone about this before hand.
Harris probably never wanted to publish the rumored Columbine Doom WAD or for the world to even see, and if the dates of his WAD files, his journal entries and the Basement Tapes is anything to go by, I would speculate that the rumored Columbine Doom WAD only existed privately on his computer somewhere between September 1996 and early April 1999 before he probably deleted it off his computer.
I'm glad a video like this exists because it's an actual Doom expert and older member of the fanbase judging a video about a recent figure, that just happens to be more noticeable in comparison (Even if just because of YT's algorithm or this following).
It sort of encaplusates the modern Doom fanbase in a way where certain modern trends or concepts are there, so you have the "memes" and clickbait channels (Which also means whenever someone says "Doom fans have the same jokes", they're someone that's probably not even aware of the wad scene).
But even better is that you did it in a respectful way and didn't come off as an elitist gatekeeper.
I knew something like a "r/Doom vs Doomworld" clash of worlds/culture shock was gonna happen and in a way, i hope new fans learn a lot of values and traditions from a special fanbase, in case the old blood disappears.
I would say that even the classic fanbase has some issues it's still better when you show what truly made Doom great like mapsets and community projects made by old fans that kept the game alive for 20 years.
Modern fans, specifically Eternal ones gave a bad reputation of etilism and stale memes more than fans ever did pre 2016. Still a lot of them are still willing to know more about it which is always welcome
@@agrubohub4009 I feel like modern Doom fans are exposed to a different generation of fanbase culture in general, when you consider their behaviors and memes that can be seen elsewhere.
They're probably used to that performative "loyal fanboy" image you see in stuff like console wars and mainstream nerd media like Disney Star Wars.
So in a way, it's easier to talk about how great Doom is and act religious, without understanding the history of a series' fanbase or certain traditions and all.
It's always been a series that most people like, which can be turned into "everyone must be a fan of", which is the start of both the annoying fanboy behaviour but also erasure of the most interesting aspects of the core fanbase.
@@agrubohub4009 both are pretty toxic but not for the reasons you stated
I completely understood why DOOM was brought up during the aftermath of Columbine. When something as confusing and tragic as a school shooting happens; people naturally look for answers. Not 'something to blame' as much as something to 'explain'..
Like when you drop an egg on the floor. What happened? Did I black out for a moment? Is my grip getting worse due to poor blood circulation?
Obviously the answer is, you were clumsy and dropped it.
Once most people came to the conclusion that videogames had nothing to do with it and the simplest conclusion was also the correct one; that being that two young males had emotional problems, that was being exasperated by external sources; that they were not able to resolve within themselves (and as you said yourself, mental health issues are still woefully under treated).
Instead they found eachother and spurred on eachothers urge to gain charthsis through violent vengence.
The problem came after 911. When it became obvious that there were problems so much larger than people could imagine; having being used to the insular lifestyle of US living.
So instead of realizing that there is an entire world of violence caused by governments, religions and bigotry.
The easiest solution for some people was to blame videogames.
Honestly, the only time I can think of where a videogame could be blamed for an actual murder was the Manhunt 2 incident in the UK. But that was due to a child playing a game never intended for him. Like with all media; parents need to patrol what their child consumes.
Sorry for the long comment.
Don’t be sorry, it was a good read.
Very good analogy’s and nicely described.
Full blown sadistic nature, blatant-hate, spitefulness, malice and the finding enjoyment in the suffering of others are also causes, unless if that is classified as a mental problem.
the right blamed doom the same reason the left blamed guns, to use the tragedy to push their agendas
@@dibberz-v1z Well I don't want to sound 'lefty' but I will just say Bowling for Columbine was a very compelling documentary.
I think the issue of why the lower levels of the Ice Burg contains questionable theories and wads because think the Ice Burgs on the internet typically have "Creepy and Mysterious" Stuff on the lower levels. However I think the problem with trying to fit Doom in that format is because... well, Doom is kinda well documented. The sourcecode is open, the original Id team have talked about the development process on multiple occasions, John Romero used to even release cut content and beta content of the game, fans finding unearthing random trivia over the 30 years Doom's been around. So you end up with situations where you're making wild stretches, going "Illuminati Confirmed" on coincidences, talking about wads made by random authors, and just plain falsehoods being touted as "Obscure Trivia" just to try and fit the "Creepy, Mysterious and Obscure" theme the lower levels usually have.
Also I was not expecting to see my old comment (that I forgot I even made) on Seizure.wad. I was a teen at the time and I feel like I had a tendency to be a bit mean when I encountering something I don't like. I have mellowed out a bit since then.
I agree with how you feel about Midnight's video. I also was left with a rather bitter taste with how much he sidetracked of actual Doom facts and how little evidence there was to backup some of the points.
I am happy I watched your analysis though, because I genuinely thought the hanged sprites theory was real, I didn't know about the GI Joe. You learn something new about this game everyday!
Oh, this one. I remember watching it right until he said Doom is 2D because of GT video. I assumed that other unknown to me facts also based on the similar “solid” sources.
Midnight is the Ali-A of Doom content.
God I hated this video, it’s hilarious seeing you doing this. Keep up the good fight
I like the implication that anyone has probably played a Harris wad "without eve knowing it", when there's so many wads people play that have nothing to do with Harris.
Like, if you make a list of any wad you ever downloaded, you may find someone's first map or unpopular projects but nobody probably touched a Harris wad.
Like at the very least, you hear stories from here and there, but not actually play them.
Yeah, they are not exactly common.
Finally, the real doomtuber steps in
Thinking about the Arch-Vile and Jesus, I'm not sure he was intended to be an overt similarities, but when he raises a monster from the dead, his hands do light up red, which ostensibly could be stigmata imagery, but it's not like just his palms light up either, it's his hands in entirety as well as his eyes.
I always feel that there's something amiss with the way Midnight presents and his content, so I'm glad that you made a video to educate people on identifying potential misinformation and other possible pain points in the knowledge of the Doom games. 🙂
He comes across as a big bullshitter to me.
So two things: Sandy Peterson might be religious, but he's also a Lovecraft fan, he's going around with the handle Sandy of Cthulhu nowadays. A lot of the edgier names in id related stuff were Sandy's ideas ("Deathkings of the Dark Citadel")
Second, you're telling me John Carmack isn't a mad psychic scientist who would conquer the world in another timeline? I say bull! :-p
18:00 the planet would be just like doom?! I mean, doom 1 took place in 2022 and Elon Musk is thinking about going to Mars...
Some guys made a wad of our school in 1995. It was really impressive. But it was just a large building we would be at every day. Nobody in Europe would make a connection to school shootings. It was just two guys making something creative in a video game.
People did that in the 90s, just because it was a novelty to try to recreate your school or workplace as a level in a videogame like that (see how close you can get), or the part about deathmatching with your pals/coworkers in a space you're all really familiar with.
There's probably a couple few hundred .wads from that era recreating schools, offices, and homes, and not one with any sinister intents, it was all for novelty and good fun.
It's after Columbine and with the urban legend about the supposed Columbine .wad and various imaginations of it created by less savory people that the concept gets viewed negatively.
Sandy was actually asked about Map 21 and he swears it wasn't his intent.
Haha, I knew it! Thanks for confirming.
Random-ass "react" videos are usually something I don't like to watch, but watching Doomkid's Soapbox is fantastic.
Crucifixion is clearly a T pose while the Archvile makes an X like a St Andrews cross (the more popular style)
Marphy Black is one of the lead devs of Postal 2, by the way.
Dr Doomkid returns for another round of debunking old Doom myths and misinformation. :^)
I associate this dude with clickbait. I wouldn't take him too seriously. Iceberg videos are in style now, so of course he made one. He should be "triple checking everything" anyway, without needing to be called out. (And thanks for doing that)
And there's the detail that he did not make _ANY_ amends in his video of this iceberg. It's still spreading cap, shamelessly and stonefaced.
9:47 Not dead animals, but one of the pinned and plasterd skin textures is one of the developers' scrapped knee.
And his hairy arms.
This kinda reminds me of a "10 facts about Doom" video I saw... I think it was IGN or Gameranx or one of those more popular channels. All (or at least most) of the points they made showed Doom and other FPS's in a poor light, for shock value.
Might be a good one for your next reaction video! 😛
Another great debunk video! I didn't know that the hanging sprites were action figures till now
laughed my ass off when the wrongness counter showed up
Im gonna respect the hell out of this... please join my patreon
Lmao!
Yeah. Doom is a heavy subject sometimes. And while I'm not against discussing even the heaviest parts of the community. I do think what this video does in fabricating parts of a story to better fit a genuinely horrible scenario isnt really the best thing to do.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Just because you can connect things doesn't mean A caused B. Post hoc fallacy. Decino covered the source of the Doom textures better.
Well, that's modern RUclips for you. Lots of content, very little information. It's why I'm picky/stingy with my likes & subscriptions. Good breakdown man.
let's be honest... Midnight is no Decino when it comes to really researching doom. He wants to be, but he's never going to end up putting in Decino levels of work
Honestly it just sounds like he made most of this shit up himself
@@maltsutty I don't think he's that creative...
@@lanereynolds4567 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 but he’s a self proclaimed skilled storyteller which qualifies him to one day work for ID remember ?? That was the last video of his I watched 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@maltsutty i want to believe you made that up... But he probably did say it.
Btw, first Midnight video I have ever seem
You have to make a DeHacked tutorial on how to make a flamethrower, that thumbnail is awesome
Good call!
@@DoomKid Make sure to give it some decent range.
Too many videogames make flamethrowers bloom out at like 5ft-10ft because they're based on propane jets from movies (napalm would be ridiculously unsafe for a film set, to be fair), real military ones using liquid or gelatinous fuel driven by pressurized gas (ideally nitrogen as it doesn't burn by itself), which can reach as far as 50ft.
The one in Osiris TC was cool because it would scorch enemies into smoldering piles of ash. Obituary had another good one.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine You should give Ray Mohawk 2 a try sometime, I think you'll be satisfied with the flamethrower there
@@DoomKid Maybe I will. I have such a backlog, haven't even gotten around to play through all the projects I've been involved in.
I think people who aren't experienced with a topic outside of the product they're making, shouldn't be making any form of sensationalist "weird facts" video such as a top 10 or iceberg video. They just make fools of themselves and insult a community by spreading misinformation to those who don't know any better.
Like those "170 DRAGON BALL Z FACTS EVERY PERSON WHO WAS EVER BORN SHOULD KNOW" and its just obvious shit or lies
Midnight is nowhere near self-aware enough for this kind of reflection.
it's nice that another doom vet saw this and called it out, i'm really not a fan of the nudoom community
I want a terry wad iceberg lol
I really love the video. It´s good to see a person who understand very well a subject talk about it.
Saying Carmack don´t have empathy for people is so stupid. The most we can say is he lacks empathy for property (Comunist Carmack confirmed). I didnt know about the columbine blog, is really revealing. Never know about the GI Joe sprites too, even Decino doenst know about this.
Where are the unused Archvile frames you mentioned? I don’t remember any of those in Romero’s dumps and would be extremely curious to see them.
There’s only two. I’ll go find em! (Just to describe them, one has the arch vile reaching out/forward, kind of like the imps when throwing a fireball, and the other showed him holding his head)
@@DoomKid Ohh, I think I know the ones! It’s pics of the model itself, before they’ve been converted to in-game sprites, right?
@@gregorypendell9260 That’s right!
I just realized that he quoted Decino almost word to word about the Gargoyles.
I can't stand that guy midnight. He is always shilling, always asking for donation and his patreon and stuff. He is literally a low energy e-begger and his content is so badly done is amazing why he has people watching his channel. I really really can't stand the guy.
I honestly don’t mind the Patreon plugs and stuff he does. I just wish he’d say shit that’s actually true 😂
@@DoomKid Well, that's because he is lazy and doesn't do the research, just do a random google search and reads the title of the links and done. He is literally an e-begger who do the minimum amount of effort and still expect people to donate to him. I Hate that guy, like, literally hate the guy.
Oh...This guy...Also many icebergs ares like this:)...unfortunally:)
Midnight attempts the "don't make an absolutely god awful doom video" challenge
He said the 2D thing in his other iceberg video
Oh no!
Now you've pointed it out those decor corpses do look like scanned action man/G.I Joe you can see the shine on the plastic body
It's official - Doomkid does in fact watch Midnight!
layer 69: doom guy's neck in canonically broken in doom 1, 2 and 64
Unrelated, but I assumed you were American...then I heard a lorikeet in the background (around 0:30) and low and behold your about section of your channel says your an Aussie.
represent
Good ear!
Lmao at the thumbnail. At this point, I feel like the safest bet to making a good Doom video that is factually correct is to verify these facts with you.
But yeah, as you say, the ones about other WADs shouldn't even be there unless if they left a really massive impact in the community. Pretty weird that an iceberg included fan content that isn't too relevant to the main Doom games as a whole.
What is also unfortunate is that Midnight seemed to not have fact checked a lot of the points (at least the wrong points you covered in this vid). Good iceberg videos tend to make some comments on just how valid each point might be, which Midnight seemed to not have done here lol.
Anyway, great vid. Your response videos are always fun to watch, and they're really informative to new doom fans like me.
I’m glad to hear that, BigMetalhead!
Not really watching Midnight's videos because they aren't the type of content I'm looking for, but I think for future reference to anyone who makes iceberg videos, if there's any information you aren't sure if it's valid enough or simply lack the sources to show definitive proof, you can scale it on a meter to let the viewers know.
It's a convenient approach that a few iceberg videos have already included.
Hey man! I agree with some of the others here. I think cataloging and sharing your knowledge of the game is important to its preservation for the future. Someday, we won’t be here but people will want to know the stories, drama, facts and misinformation surrounding Doom as the OG (and best) FPS game. I think you personally have an important job of doing right by the community as a long time member. I also wouldn’t mind seeing a history of your own personal journey with the game. You always make comments about your dad or Doomed To Die. Maybe you should put that on paper (RUclips I mean!).
That sounds like a fun idea for a video!
I can´t stand Midnight's videos.
He comes across as so unauthentic.
7:05 Wrongness Counter: 1 He's a devout Mormon actually. 😁 Well that's kind of a Christian so I guess that still counts?
With Columbine... There's a surprising connection with a lot of mass shootings, the perpetrators always seem to be on the same medication which the hysterical "blame rock'n'roll, blame videogames, blame South Park" media always seem to omit.
I just had to double check, but Mormons do consider themselves Christians. I also wouldn't be surprised if some psychoactive medications (especially ones from the 90s) were partially to blame.
@@DoomKid Sandy was asked by like Adrian if they could put Jesus in Quake (about that big crucifixion texture), and his reply was *"Sure, I love Jesus!"*
The only actual thing he made a religious objection to at iD was Romero using the head version of that graphic as a floor switch, and they just swapped the texture.
Hi, DK! I remember you from like... the early, EARLY 2000s, I think!
I started to write in a stream-of-consciousness style... and then Columbine came up, and I broke format. I'm going to post the light-hearted stuff first, at top-level, and put the more serious stuff in replies.
- I thought Sandy Peterson was Mormon specifically? Could be wrong.
- It should be obvious to anyone who sees the titles of the Doom 2 maps that "Nirvana" and "The Spirit World" are directly adjacent, hinting that, probably, the map was named for the state of being reached after uh, what was it, eliminating all desire (and perhaps implicitly ceasing to be alive, since the nature of existence is suffering and desire causes all suffering and blah blah) -- regardless of whether the state/place "Nirvana" would be considered Hell-like and scary (presumably nobody thinks this, though Sandy Peterson might have been exposing some Christian bias or reactionary thought here, calling out Buddhists as being wrong on some metaphysical level; I've heard occasional suspicions about him being a bit... iffy), it IS a state of being, and could be imagined as a place, and I thought most people would have heard of this, so I'm confused that this made it into "the iceberg," considering that, given it is 2022 now, you'd think that the Buddhist concept would be more popularly known than some old band (yes, I listened to them back then, but they're still just some old band). Just, kinda surprising to me, I guess!
- On Carmack's psych eval: Awareness (and, thank fuck, self-advocacy) of autism has come a long way, but people so often still just don't understand. One thing that is super common is the failure to differentiate cognitive and affective empathy, and use that to dehumanize autistic people. Carmack isn't necessarily autistic (unless he has said so!), but it could explain such interpretations of his behavior, maybe.
- On Carmack breaking into the school: I sure am super-glad that story had a component that made sure to ridicule someone for being fat. Golly gee whiz, more of that, please! (This is sarcasm.)
- Knew the hanging dude was gonna be in this. There was no way it wouldn't. I wonder if he's going to say one of them was Mussolini, as that is a claim sometimes made. [30 seconds later] AHAHA! He scrolled over the Doomworld post where somebody repeated that claim! I think that's exactly where I saw it first, too!
This was the more serious issue that I felt I absolutely had to address, but I also don't want to push it on anyone, because it's some pretty hard stuff:
Attributing school shootings to mental health problems in general is not cool. I don't expect everyone to automatically already know this, so the following is not scolding, but information: People with mental health issues are much more likely to be the victims of violence than they are -- WE are -- to be the perpetrators. I have CPTSD, major depressive disorder, general anxiety, probably a few more things, and I'm lucky to be alive, though some (most) days I don't see it that way. Meanwhile, I wouldn't hurt anyone. None of the conditions I have affect my general ability to perceive (what is typically thought of as) the facts about reality, like, the grass is green, the sky is blue, dogs *don't* talk -- but even people with schizophrenia just don't tend to be atypically violent compared to the general population. Psychotic or sociopathic individuals get treated as being especially dangerous, like they're killers just waiting to explode, but that's just not true, and it's not mental health in general that is at the core of what is going on here.
It would be more accurate to say that these things arise from a confluence of worldview factors that lead to a sense of broken promises, betrayal, and then scapegoating of others, and then, finally, getting angry enough to do something about it. Here in the US, we're all very alienated from each other, because work keeps us too busy for a proper social life, cities are built so that things sprawl more than they should and you have to have a car to get anywhere (which excludes many people from the ability to get around, even to get groceries, instead buying things from convenience stores, worsening their poverty), we don't see our old friends that often, we're isolated from our families by the post-WW2 prosperity-based expectation that we'll get married and buy a house and then live our own nuclear family fantasy, we're polarized by media that intentionally enrages us and tells us that the blame lies with people who we have more in common with than we do with the media figures and politicians making those claims -- being so disconnected from humanity can make you stop seeing other people as being human and fundamentally possessing a right to live, recognizing that other people have needs, have struggles. Ask a soldier: The ability to dehumanize an enemy makes them much easier to kill. Ask military historians: Absent this indoctrination, soldiers often fire weapons without even aiming at human targets. We're averse to killing, USUALLY, by default, but with all this alienation? Welp, the odds go up. Feel free to ask me about my specially-informed perspectives on murder and murderers.
And then you have to recognize that typical school shooters are white boys. And that's because, as white people, we've got people telling us that we deserve certain things in society. We deserve certain career prospects, an easy life, to get money, sex, and respect (defined, in this case, as obedience and deference, rather than... respect), but then we see that we're not getting those things. The social construct -- as we white people tend to view it -- is therefore broken. What actually happened is that we're just now, at a demographic level (as in, some of us have had harder lives for a long time, not just recently), starting to get it as bad as everybody else gets it; non-straight, non-white, non-men, were never even given those promises. It was more like "shut up and eat your crumbs and be glad you don't have it worse." The thing is, we're half right when we see it this way; the social construct IS broken. It's just that it's been broken for a long time, and the US "doling out welfare to the single black moms" or whatever isn't what broke it, isn't what suddenly made it so there aren't enough resources to give entitled little white boys everything they want, including free access to women's bodies. So, the typical school shooter is acting out on reactionary propaganda being disseminated by far-right extremists (some of whom are within establishment politics and mass media). Those media companies are only actually serving up all that rage-bait because it's very profitable, but when they don't think about the consequences, the blood is on THEIR hands just as much as on the shooter's.
The stuff about Harris showing anger at society and sharing bomb-making instructions, expressing wishes to kill and to rape, all of those things support this. Harris seeing Doom in everything was not because he stopped being able to discern reality from fiction, but because he was heavily engaged in a power fantasy. For boys who feel alienated, cheated of their entitlements, "power over life and death" is the ultimate fallback, and our culture serves that fantasy up to them. It's an amplified form of "while you were having premarital sex, I studied the blade." And have you noticed that these shooters very often kill themselves, too? They understand how monstrous what they have done is. They're of sound enough mind to realize that those were people, not "dregs," not "parasites," nor any other Ayn Randian bullshit terminology applied to human beings who have the innate right to be alive and be happy. In the end, the blood itself cries out, and the viscera makes the truth felt all the more viscerally, and these shooters can't take the guilt. If they were just not able to recognize reality, this would not be how it goes.
Where you're absolutely right though, is that the stigma over mental health problems is horrible. It STILL needs to improve, even though it has, somewhat.
Anyway, I DID like the video. Very chill stuff. The mental health thing was because you misspoke. I don't think it happened out of being an asshole or something, especially since you addressed it compassionately. It's just that there are unintended consequences when connecting school shootings and mental illness. My intention is to inform, not to scold.
@@VitriolicVermillion Hey there, I found your comment to be really interesting and informative (and I laughed at the phrase “Ayn Randian bullshit terminology”, because of how accurately it sums such terminology up). I’m glad the fact that I was attempting to view the issue with compassion rather than condemnation shone through despite my uninformed phrasing. I’m really curious by the way, what was your name/alias back in the old days? It’s not often I meet old faces from pre-2010 again out in the wild :)
@@DoomKid Well, I'm actually not entirely sure what names I was using back then, nor that it was specifically pre-2010, actually, because my perception of time is permanently messed up. But uh, there was a period of "vitriolicv", a period of "Ultraviolet," a period of "Faint" I think.
This video is so cathartic I don't mean to hate on anyone but this whole iceberg thing is 90% reciting shallow facts that are untrue about whatever topic the iceberg is about
14:36 I need to pause the video because I cant stop laughing. Sir, you gonna to hell for this. "MErICA!"
Lmao!
Midnight: I couldn't find anything on this one
Doomkid: Well thats about all we need to hear on that XD
2:41 Archvile is just going “ARISE FLARES OF HELL, ARISE!!!!!!!!!!!”
Really enjoyed your breakdown, much like your game theory response, it all handled in a measured way. I also have to say how much I hate the concept of iceberg videos, its just a list/trivia video with a fresh coat of paint.
I can’t stand Clickbait .. I mean Midnight
"I knew something was amiss." no you didn't. you'll inflate even the most inconsequential controversy to boost your views. Also, few people have played Eric Harris wads without searching for them. I dunno how popular UAC Labs was in the late 90s, but there's nothing particularly notable about it to anyone, other than the incredibly tight ammo. Although Tier supposedly had custom monsters and weapons....I don't know what Nate Dykeman and Chris Morris would remember of it though.
A man with glorious beard talks about doom.
Weekend made better. B)
Since you asked for the Like and "Subscribe" you have my like and subscription!
I bursted laughing when he screamed 14:41 "AMERICA"
I initially found Marphi through his Half-Life content, had no idea he was a DOOM fan!
He did the wonderful sprite touch up project that's been updated for years now, a great member of the community!
@@DoomKid I remember finding it last year, I’ve been using it ever since!
I will say that while mental health is being taken more seriously today.... we still have a long way to go in many areas. Most people are still under the impression that people with mental health problems are just acting out or otherwise pretending or something. Physical handicaps are often much easier for people and society to understand.
To put it mildly lol, this is the first time I have watched a Midnight video in a long time...
14:03 yeah i remember why I subbed to you now
I love how you cut off Midnight with the G.I. Joe Intro.
I absolutely enjoy your videos! You have a very nice, down to earth take this.
Glad you think so!
On the topic of school shootings being blamed on doom and violent games in general is that the politicians never seems to notice that the people who do these things make up a very very small part of all the people who play the games. Who did not go shoot up a school. But because a few Individuals out of the thousands who play the games they conclude the games are the problem. Outstanding logic from the people we trust to make rules for us to follow....
Completely agree with this point.
yeah i stopped watch that vid when doom-is-2d topic came in
1:28 I love that you left this in
19:45 i said it on the comments of that video; sounds suspiciously connected to be real, i mean, there's no way that Eric made a recreation of his school, he was already busy practicing on real life shooting for the eventual massacre. Realdoom or Realdeth are not columbine high school, it's just a stupid myth who surrounds this horrible event.
02:40 "Jesus textures" lol
lol!