MASSIVE Problems with Solar in California
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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Make sure you know about these Massive problems you could run into with Solar in California. Going solar in the State of California has changed MASSIVELY over the past couple of years, so make sure you are educated on the changes before making any big moves!
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Leasing anything is a sign that you can't afford it, Beware!
Good point
Not always true. Cars for example,some people like to upgrade to a newer or different model every few years and can personally afford to do so.
@@wintermoonomenleasing cars is the sign of a financial moron…even if they can afford to do it. I can afford to wipe my butt with $20 bills…doesn’t make it a wise idea.
@@wintermoonomenyou made the argued about not being able to afford, upgrading is a want not a need
@@Robert-ug5hx sometimes an upgrade can be mandatory becoming a need that you may not be able to afford.
NO ONE should lease solar or sign a power purchase agreement. If you can't buy it outright or get reasonable financing solar should not even be considered.
Correct. There are very few circumstances which leasing makes sense.
@@DSC800 Agree
Always own your solar system.
Never lease!!!!!
Totally agree
@@jackthesolarguy And how many years does it take you to pay back the initial cost in electric bill savings. What about the use of the money assuming you could get 5% interest on it with a CD or perhaps a better return in the stock market.
I’ve read another issue with leased solar panels is that thereafter, you can’t replace your roof as easily or cheaply. No roofing company will take on the project, because it’s not their expertise to remove the panels without damaging them. And you can’t remove the panels yourself without voiding the solar panel warranty. To have the solar company temporarily remove then reinstall the panels, if it will even do it, would cost even more money. And the minute you reinstall the panels, it will void the brand new roof warranty. I don’t think homeowner’s insurance will cover any loss along the way.
Exactly! This is why when I research a home solar system, I'm always looking at installing on ground mounts and patio covers. The Solar salesmen will say anything to get a sale which includes taking them off for the roofers and putting them back on for free (at least the first time); but I don't trust they would still be in business.
Yes the company actually OWNS them while you forfeit the 30% fed rebate, which I assume goes back to the company. A lien is placed and most companies will not let you out unless you pay off the entire balance!
That is not always true! My new neighbors bought the house 2.5 years ago and assumed the solar panel lease from the seller. 6 months ago after spending big bucks on the remodel they also wanted (maybe needed) a new roof. The Solar Leasing companies crew came out removed the panels, stored them and when the roof was done 5 days later, they came back out an reinstalled them. I asked the guy leading the crew about his thoughts on re-installing 15 year old panels and he said they tested them and they were still have good output.
Correct. It depends upon the roof's condition, but typically if the roof is over 20 years old, it makes sense to replace it before installing the solar, for the reasons you pointed out above.
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a former roofer - NO ROOFING COMPANY will honour a guarantee for roof performance if other install their junk on top of the roofers work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We bought our system in SoCal during the time when they offered second tier net metering, and a 30% tax credit, making our system about $16,000 in total, which we paid off in a year. Since then, we have not had an electric bill, nor a solar payment, and our panels produce about the same as our usage. However, this year, the CPUC approved a massive rate increase, and now we have seen our first bill in three + years. My advise to anyone considering going solar today;
Know that you are not getting the same deal as before. Understand what your needs are and how to reduce your consumption before adding a system to your home. And this young man has done a really good job of explaining the pros and cons. I am an electrician, and make it my task to maximize the productivity and minimize the consumption for the best benefit. Plus, you need to keep the panels clean in order to get the most out of them.
@patrickcallahan2885 Great comment! Thanks for the professional details and info. I don't have solar, 65 yo old probably won't get them. However we have been able to reduce our kwh use each month over same month last year for 3 years now. This summer changed that, but everyone saw that. My total kwh use for a year is lower than most other homes of comparable size. New 17 seer HVAC, cool roof, shade trees, dual pane windows help I know.
Look into investing into a battery pack system. All you need is a system big enough to cover what they are charging you for.
Good info. What has worked for me for 10 years is 30-year guarantee panels and about twice what you need. Then you don't have to wash them and as they decline in output over the years you will still have adequate energy (2.5% per year degradation) from them. With the prices of panels dropping the biggest cost is the labor to pay a gang to go up on your roof to install/maintain them. In 20 years I will be 96 so....... I probably won't much care anymore, will I?
@patrickcallahan2885 Good info. What has worked for me for 10 years is 30-year guarantee panels and about twice what you need. Then you don't have to wash them and as they decline in output over the years you will still have adequate energy (2.5% per year degradation) from them. With the prices of panels dropping the biggest cost is the labor to pay a gang to go up on your roof to install/maintain them. In 20 years I will be 96 so....... I probably won't much care anymore, will I?
You may have 11 more years of grandfathered Net Metering left. And you have enjoyed great savings , so what are your plans when net metering ends for you ? I'm in the same boat, which is why I'm asking.
The longevity of the Chinese solar panels they're all installing is seriously overstated. By the time all these solar panels start failing, most of the companies that are selling and installing them will be long gone and the homeowners will be left holding the bag.
Thje companies selling solar today were in the cell phone business 20 years ago, then switched to hot tubs, then surface-installed pools. They move from scam to scam, and it is not the products on which they cheat and steal, it's the contracts that even lawyers have trouble understanding.
Even the bag will be degraded.
There are too many affordable Made in America solar panel options nowadays from big manufacturers that looking at cheap overseas panels is just pointless.
@specex "The longevity of the Chinese solar panels they're all installing is seriously overstated. "
My MIL had solar installed last fall (against my advice) and she's already got a dead panel.
@@Migglesworth Use an established company. Ours was 20 yrs old.
When you have a monopoly electric company, whatever they say goes.
SDG&E.
From California and worked for Solar City for a little while (they went under and got bought out). When there was a big push for solar and the government was effectively “subsidizing” it, it was a worthy investment. After a lot of the tax credits were removed and utilities went up, it’s just not a reasonable investment unless you can buy it outright which I imagine many can’t. Also just an FYI, because I don’t here many people taking about this, the second you drill into the tiles on your roof it voids the warranty and replacing the roof with solar on it because more costly and complicated because many local roofers are not electricians and won’t cover reinstalling it the panels
I thought they used a strong cement?
@@davidanderson8469 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
"STRONG CEMENT" INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a former roofer and if you mess with MY ROOF - YOU GET NO GUARANTEE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roofers are not electricians and electricians ARE NOT ROOFERS and never will they cooperate on one roof!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I live in Central Cal. We had 17 solar panels installed about 6 years ago. We got a nice chunk back for the tax credit and the first year we actually had a credit on our bill. However, by the third year, we owed around $50, and then after that it all went downhill. Thanks to PG&E drastically raising rates, my true-up last year was over $1,000 and as of today, it has reached $1300! It is just me, my husband, and our two dogs and our house is small around 1400 sq ft. Our panels are paid off and now we are considering adding additional panels and batteries. I am now paying 34 cents a Kwh off peak hours and 52 cents a Kwh on peak. Solar is fine but something needs to be done about the power company!
If you have space on the on your roof, adding solar would still likely make sense considering your true up is $1300. Most PGNE homeowners have a payback period of 5-8 years because of how high the rates are. Feel free to reach out to me at 541-735-7446 if you would like an estimate.
@@jackthesolarguyadding panels to her system would convert her to net metering 3.0 and she’d lose all those credits and require the cost of 10-warrantied batteries to cover her true up. Why would you tell her that “makes sense”?
@@KopiCapLLC NEM allows for a ten percent increase above nameplate rating and still be within the contract.
@@ananda_miaoyin right, but the chance that a $1,300 true up is covered by a paltry 10% add on is highly unlikely.
@@KopiCapLLC True, it won't. I am in the same boat with a $2000 true up on my first annual - beats the retail price though.
I had a guy come by to sell me a solar system. I said okay just drop off a contract so I can read through it and I will let you know. He never came back.
That's a red flag.
LOL..same thing happened to me..And to think he said he was working in 'my area' the following week with my neighbor, who he wouldn't give the address to. PASS...
Could have been a scammer to begin with, where he is not really selling any solar systems but just to get to your personal information. The same goes for VOIP "Energy Solutions" scams calling CA homeowners to sign up for bogus services that they never intended to offer.
Hail catchers. Roof sails. Sun shades. Dust collectors. Rooftop rabbit holes. Leak starters. Rooftop money pits.
Pigeons too. Nasty
So true. And a point many people have no idea of.
@@kenth151 u don't put it on a 20 yr old roof. Old house, replace roof and then put it up. I jumped on them and didn't break them so hails not doing anything.
Even years later, only 5% loss of production from dust
So breathing polluted air is your answer. RIGHT ?
No hail in SoCal, the shade is appreciated by the roof. Electricity in San Diego is 2nd highest in the nation. The climate is all time. It was a sound decision..
never buy anything from someone who walks up to your front door uninvited... period.
Spend the money on insulation, including the walls. Install dual pane windows and ceilig fans. Do your laundry before or after peak hours. Install low flow shower heads, and flush your hot water tank once a year, or build an outdoor shower with 20 gallon black roof tank. Additionally, install point of use hot water devices under sinks. Caulk around windows, inside and out. Install draft seals around your electrical outlets. Ease the strain on your air conditioning system by having the condenser cleaned at least every 36 months. This goes for your refrigerator and freezer as well. Especially if you have pets in the home. Dirty systems run harder and longer. And lastly, when cooking outside, cook a little extra and throw it in the freezer. You have already paid for the coals, get all the heat you can from them.
You don't live in San Diego where in summer is 80 cents peak per kWh.
Insulation is great but to do that and replace all your windows is way more expensive then install solar
That freezing is a very good comment / idea. Thanks. ❤
@@hijinks21Then factor in the cost of roof repairs, plus the cost and hassle of removing the panels above the roof where the rain water is getting past the damaged roof materials.
@@markthomas207 I've had my panels 18 years now and no roof issues.
Quit living under fear of something new might be good for you
@@hijinks21 No attic insulation is cheap and effective.
Everything you say is true. I looked into it 15 years ago and realized that it would take 20+ years to break even and I would lose my roof warranty, so I decided to simply pay the power company and conserve energy by installing double pane windows instead. I also open the windows when the outside temperature goes below the indoors temperature. Cooling the house at night saves using the Air conditioning during the day.
If you get Solar Panels in California, you may or may not have an electric bill (don't forget about the natural gas bill for older houses), BUT you will have to pay the solar company $500 dollars to come out and inspect and OK your roof before they will install solar panels for a 25-year lease that would start at what seems a reasonably low monthly lease payment but every year would increase 3% year over year and at the end of 25 years your solar panels need replacing and proper disposal (more fees). At 65 years old, no thanks.
We're so far ahead in electricity credit that it pays the natural gas fee. I think we've paid maybe a hundred bucks in three yrs. 12 panels in San Diego= 6-7 yr payoff.
I installed my own system for about $13,000 and inflated the invoice cost to $24,000 and took a 30% tax credit on that. The IRS will not audit you unless you do something dumb. Then I skipped on the permit and the interconnection agreement and put my system in zero export mode. You cannot see my equipment from the street and my return on investment is about three years. Screw em! Both the local jurisdiction and the electric utilities!
So you’re admitting to a federal crime on a public forum? Can we have your full name and address?
Never mind.
They can get it.
@@tabbycat8511 yes, that is a federal crime and I am damn proud of it! I started paying taxes when I was 14 years old and I will be happy to steal a little bit back! And by the way, my house is 895 ft.² and my property taxes cost me $8400 per year! I will rip them off in return any chance I get! 😂😂😂🖕🖕🖕
@@boblatkey7160 You don’t see anything wrong with choosing which laws you’ll follow and then bragging about the ones you don’t?
Doesn’t every criminal have an excuse?
What makes yours special?
Other than the potential tax issue, sounds great to me.
Agree with ripping off the fed5 if possible; my taxes in recent years have jumped and it's seriously annoying. I may have to try some of the ideas here.
We had a solar system several years ago and what we didn’t like was that when they bought back electricity it was at the lowest rate.
Should have went 'off-grid' version and there is a no feedback (limited) 'gridtied' inverters...sadly these cheap Chinese invertors are not UL CERTIFIED, but I can tell you they actually do work well... #SOLARGORILLA
I'm a retired carpenter, I have built hundreds of homes and I remember way back in the late 70's -early 80s there was this push for solar.
Lots of people jumped on the bandwagon and I know it was a different time but the biggest problem I saw was connecting the panels to the roof. They were plagued by leaks. Also the panels wore out so fast and had to be replaced.
Now I know the technology has improved, I'm not trying to scare people away from solar because I think it's a great idea. I would love to get free power, but this thing has been rushed through so fast without giving much thought to the consequences and not enough testing, I would think twice before I put something on the roof of a half million dollar home without researching this thoroughly and avoiding costly repairs.
Bandwagon was right, everyone and their brother started a solar water heating system company but never backed their products/system up...
>
So you are saying it's not just contractors but GOVERNMENT that has been encouraging this bum;'s rush? And now the bloom is off the rose and the costs are coming due.
I met someone who got the Solar and even though, the Utility to Edison, bill dropped only 30%, and the payment to the Solar is twice as much as the Edison Bill was.. It was a compound payments... I will never invest in in Solar.. He said it's a Scam.
Stupid is as stupid does Educate yourself
A homeowner to our east had regular $700/month electricity bills. It's hot 4 months of the year there. This house is only ten yrs old so pretty efficient. She purchased her solar and her bill dropped to $50. Her payback time should be very short.
@davidanderson8469 I knew a guy who's Edison was $300 per month. It dropped to $90, and then paid $368 per month on the Solar System monthly bill.. I am happy I đón have the Solar bill and just Edison.. The Last 5 days were the hottest of the year. In Los Angeles California area Suburb. I couldn't afford the Solar,. The most I ever paid is $147 for 1 month, and it actually Doubled due 1 new Tesla owner in the Neighborhood.
I installed my own ground-mount, 9.6KW system in 2010. My bill at the time was $350/mo. With rising SDG&E rates, solar paid for itself in ~5-1/2 years. Best project I ever spent money on. Looking at batteries now as I grandfather out of NEM 1.0.
Your honesty is respected.
“AND IT FUNCTIONS”! How I wish we could stop this madness. Very well done sir.
My childhood friends son, bought a new spec home with mandatory leased solar panel pre-installed that he pays for every month in which he was not given the option to purchase outright, here in Southern California. The solar panels worked for several years, but about 2 years ago, his solar panels stopped functioning and he has to continue paying on the monthly lease yet receives no solar energy and has to pay in full for his electricity. The leasing company has yet to fix his leased equipment. This is a win-win for who? I have not been given an explantion as to why he has not sued.
The leasing company has to maintain or replace power the contract. If they don't you stop paying and threaten to take them to court for costs plus attorneys fees. They'll fix it real quick.
Often, the problem is the inverter. Panels rearly stop producing. Although the installer does the administrative part as well, but they are responsible for labor and workmanship. If they don't respond, you can always go directly to the manufacturer who offered the warranty to start with.
Why continue to pay??? Stop payment immediately...fix or take them you lousy leasters...
I finally installed solar with the Tesla Powerwall battery. I have a 3500 sq foot house and had 25 massive 400 watt panels installed. The rep tried talking me into a lease (assuming more kick back). After running THOSE numbers I found that the leased solar panels would have costed over 85K and NO 30% fed rebate. I opted for the purchase. $46K including battery less the 14K from the rebate (note: if you didn't pay enough fed taxes YOU won't qualify for the entire rebate but you can roll in over to the next year). I've found that during winter months my system produced an anemic 16kwh during the day. Summertime was at 65kwh. So understand that you have to manage your solar. Don't just think now that you have solar you will NOT receive a bill. Untrue. Make sure you can afford both, the utility payment AND the solar doing the winter months. However, overall, I felt it was worth the investment. Good luck.
We have the same observation. Lease is way more expensive than financing solar through Tesla with powerwall which less expensive plus Federal tax credit. I have Tesla Solar with two powerwalls for my Tesla Car.
@@hotspot930 That’s great. My Powerwall + stores 13.5 kWh. It’s ok but if I charge my Tesla at night it will use all of the stored energy. I opt to charge during the morning but still use 1kwh from the grid.
There are a lot of scams involved with solar. Saw through the leasing problems right away. I also have enough electrical skills that I easily bought equipment and installed it myself with no problems. The most difficult part was digging the holes for my backyard ground-mount array. Solved by renting a mini-excavator for a day from Home Depot. Those things are fun! Drew my own plans and got a building permit after just a couple of visits to the permit office. Cost? $25 dollars for an engineer's stamp on my free manufacturer's array plan. I did have to pay a concrete pumper since my array is on a slope not accessible to concrete trucks. He ran his pump while I ran the hose end pumping into my forms. I did all the wiring and interconnect work, which is legal in California on your own house. Passed final inspection and went online immediately. Got the tax rebates and was on time for NEM 1. Never had an electric bill since. No more propane bills, either. It actually pays for our all-electric house including heat, AC, hot water, and cooking for two. Once the power company worms their way out of that, I expect fixed storage batteries to be cheap enough to just disconnect from the grid.
Politicians run the grid in CA. Costs are ridiculous and the environment doesn’t improve. It’s such a waste.
Thank you Jack this information is very helpful for the last 4 years the color company has tried to sell us solar, but thanks to my wife she seen right through them.
Glad it was helpful!
You need to do a off-grid system. Also, D.I.Y. that way when you need the warranty you can call on yourself. And you are always available.
Optimally off roof off grid, save on installation, no crappy deal or expensive installation with the power company
Well, not always ☺️
Off grid? So you just live with whatever generation you have and no electricity at night? Sounds pretty unfeasible to me.
@@gaylanbishop1641 battery power at night.
@@gaylanbishop1641 Batteries are essential. As stated in the video.
We had a 16 panel system installed on our townhome about 10 years ago. It produced more power than we consumed, and the payments on the loan were less then our old power bill. Our power bill dropped to less than 10 dollars a month. That included charging my Tesla at night. The only reason they didn't pay us was because of stupid fees. Cut to last year, and our power bill jumped to $50 a month, with a $600 wealth-transfer payment at the end of the year. I was non-plussed, to say the least. We just fled The Glorious People's State of Taxifornia for the Free State of Florida, so it's not my problem any more.
Even if you get one of these new systems with the batteries the Pelosi crime family will change the deal soon enough, and not only will you be paying for all those lovely solar panels, but they will tack on some more wealth-transfer fees for their Illegal Alien friends.
WOW! Thanks for sharing. CA= Transparent Corruption.
You need to quit drinking right wing nonsense!
What did you think was going to happen? They've also cut the rate you get from the power company for unused power. And if you get an EV, you get to pay a mileage tax on that. IT'S ALL ONE HUGE FARCE. ANY WAY TO MILK YOU FOR MORE OF YOUR MONEY.
Yep, more solar means they're not making as much money so they find some excuse to increase rates.
@@GizmoMaltese In NYC, they went on a "save the water" spree and mandated new toilets to "do your part to help save water." So when the water usage dropped they raised the rates. It's all about money and getting yours. That's all it's ever been about.
@@dannysdailysSame exact thing happening here in California. Move to a red state to avoid this scam.
Are SCE rates really going up 22% in 2025?
So Arizona went thru the same issues 40 years ago. Solar was hyped, people bought in and then the companies went bankrupt. The most sensible thing to do is to massively scale solar hot water heating. If new houses had solar hot water it would make a nice dent in the amount of power new construction requires. Travel in the Caribbean and everyone heats water this way. Generating electricity by solar still needs a lot of R&D to improve kWh generation total cost
How are you going to cool the air without A/C?
@@davidanderson8469 If you use the sun to heat water, you decrease the demand by a percentage and drive down cost. The energy issue has got to be a multi-faceted approach, utilizing every possible method to generate electricity or replace its use to keep costs down until technology improves solar and wind and make them more sensible from a cost basis. We still have an abundance of coal, and we can keep working to reduce emissions instead of removing from the list completely. Instead of funding foreign wars, fund energy R&D.
This is Democrat management for you:
Tell them to buy an electric car cause it’s cheaper to run than gas. Then, when we do, double the cost of each KwH.
Tell them to buy solar for a lower electric bill. Then nix the purchase of electricity from you to 1 penny per KwH while turning around and selling it to someone else for 47 cents per KwH.
That's even worse, there is no regulation on rates for EV superchargers. They can charge anything they want and they're up to 7 dollars a gallon for a comparable cost for gas.
@@dannysdailysThat is crazy. I never charge outside my home so had no idea.
No wonder EVs sales are struggling. All these climate change policies - they lied to us and never told us the cost of them. Now, we’re all paying them through $6 gas, $7 electric, $300 monthly electric bills.
Almost makes you think they just want to control your life, doesn't it? TRUMP 2024
@@johnl9595 The dirty little secret is to switch the entire country to EV's we would need AT LEAST 120 brand new nuclear reactors. Do you know how many are being built for this 2030 mandate that is only 5 years away? NONE. It would also take over a trillion dollars worth of new wire to modernize the grid to accommodate them. Do you know how much of that is being made for a mandate only 5 years away? NONE AGAIN. We've known about this fully 10 years before California's first mandate, it's NOT rocket science. Maybe all this stuff is supposed to just appear from Heaven. I can assure you, IT WON'T. It took the federal government fully 10 years just to figure out the standards for our televisions and took 2 to mandate EV's. And the result? Is to run them on the cheapest Chinese rechargeable flashlight batteries in the world. And when they burn down 200 vehicles in a parking garage? Just tell the news to black it out and act like it didn't happen; and they do. And people die? Oh well, what do you expect? This is all brought to you by a Government so compassionate about human life, they want you to kill all your babies and take the vax, which has killed over 6 million people already. These are evil people. Of course it's pie in the sky and has nothing to do with global warming. They and the media know all these forest fires have nothing to do with weather. All the California fires are due to forest mismanagement, and that was true all the way back to Governor Ronald Reagan. And it wasn't by his lack of trying. Logger roads act as firebreaks and the wood pays for the forest management; and they know it. They're not that stupid. BUT APPARENTLY, WE MOST CERTAINLY ARE.
@@johnl9595 Sorry, it seems that RUclips erased my reply. RUclips and Google might not be around much longer.
THIS is exactly what i argue about on X with all the EV influencers who talk about how solar is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I have to explain how the magic trick works and we have California as the perfect example of this bait and switch shell game that screwed over the residents when NEM 3.0 was rolled out.
I went with SunPower in 2021. SunPower was in business for 20 years. SunPower just filed for bankruptcy. I cross my fingers that I don't need service.
As with most things, DIY is the best way to go. Cuts out a lot of costs and you can customize your system to your needs. Of course more research is required, but I plan to do it myself and hire an electrician for the final task of connecting everything, but I'm looking at roughly 10k out of pocket for an off-grid system.
Fuck the utility companies.
Be careful with big home batteries. They get warm. Also if you want the panels and batteries covered on your homeowners insurance, you need to inform them and make sure it's listed. Most likely you will see a rate increase for that as you know the cost to replace it.
Very informative and easy to understand info. Some of the things you've said are debatable or maybe not 100% accurate or can be explain a little better. which I don't think it's intentional, by any means. One, would be the lien on the house. True, there is a lien. It's a UCC lien. Which only gives the company the right to remove the solar system, not the real property. The local electricity company puts a lien on the house as well.
However, just by the tune of your voice, I can tell you're an outstanding solar advisor. Great job. I particularly like how you explained the interest and fees' associated with solar system loans. That's exactly how I have always explained it to my clients. I've lost many deals because of clarifying the fees, but unfortunately they fall for my competitions charm. But, that's okay. You are either crystal clear with your client or you are no different than those companies who gave solar a bad name.
I live in Seattle and have a 3 KW roof mount solar system. The cost is 10 grand, and the annual energy savings are 300 bucks. Big waste of money and roof space. Most northern cities like Seattle, Portland, Chicago, and NY are unfit for solar. Too cold, too many clouds, too much rain, freezing and snowy weather, etc. I made a huge mistake.
California is only slightly better for energy production but let me list the downside(s). Extreme upfront cost - now 40-50 grand for a 10 KW system. A lot of fraud is occurring where you are signing papers and paying money, but the company never installs, the energy companies need to recover the cost of grid-tying your system for you making your rates go through the roof. The Cal govt is losing millions in tax revenue and will increase taxes exponentially, damage to roofs, panels need to be removed to repair or replace the roof, It's harder to sell a house with panels because the new buyer has to qualify to pay for them. Insurance rates increase, microinvertors need constant replacing, and on and on.
Seems like DIY is the way to go, and if roof mounting is an issue, just do ground or carport mounts. As with many things, DIY just makes more sense as it cuts out the middleman.
Yup, you are spot on. I am Canadian and I adopted solar energy 14 years ago and am still generating electricity for the utility company. I was fortunate to be an early adopter because at that time I entered into a 20 year contract with the utility company to sell them ALL the power through a seperate meter at 81 cents per KWh. Effectively, I am a solar generating business with 8KW array. Two years after I started, they reduced it to 67 cents and 2 years after that to 37 cents and today it is not offered at all and hasn’t been offered for 8 years… so it’s not worth it for people to dive into it.
Hopefully you were grandfathered into the good buyback.
Recently installed a battery system to our existing solar panels here in northern CA. For the purchase and install we decided to go with a well known local HVAC company that has been around for decades thinking that solar and HVAC go hand in hand, and we should be able to rely on the local HVAC company for potential repairs and warranty issues in the long term.
Wall Street takes 3/4 of the electric cost savings. The costs of running the electric system are transferred to your non solar neighbors. $250 per year on average for the poor and apartment dwellers.
Woo Hoo! Hurray for us? In Cali, solar is required in all new construction, rich or poor, apartment or not, for about a decade. So all will share in the cost.
That is completely bull, that the utilities, who are against solar, keep telling you... SHOW ME THE PROOF...
I just purchased battery storage to my 5 year old solar system. I got a $26,400 rebate from SCE making my battery storage less than $7,000. I purchased both my own solar and battery systems, 3.9% on my solar and 4.9% on my battery system.
No one does their own MATH when the solar sales guy comes around. IF you have a 3000 square foot or large home, 2 AC systems, pool and spa, electric car, etc. etc. IF your utility bill is $500 to $1000 plus or more every month... It can make sense to go solar. But if you live in a small home, don't run your AC much or even if you only run it in the summer. SOLAR IS PROBABLY NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don’t go solar in socal your rates will double every five years. 😮
Not really. If you live in the rural south and don't have trouble getting your hands dirty , u could do it for less than 6k with a battery backup. The cooling bills in the south and the DIY savings will make the payback period about 3.5 years
I'm building a new home and the state of CA requires solar panels. I have done the math, I don't use AC much, will never charge an EV, so I don't see a return in my investment happening in less than 20 years. I reason, that by that time, components of the system will certainly fail and I will be forced to buy replacements. All the time the electricity company will be selling my unused output. Add battery storage, some will say, I could I suppose, but since the state is forcing me into something I don't want, it's just pouring more money into a bad deal. I hate the idea of drilling holes into a brand new roof.
You are 100% correct. I f&%ked myself hard on my Tier 2 Solar. I should have known that any State program for solar was a crock of poop.
I paid nothing for electric having solar panels and charging 2 electric cars 2000 sqft house
I live in California and I'm discussed with the cost of energy. You did an excellent job explaining the issues of solar in my state. The main reason I went with a PV system for my home was because SCE kept raising rates so fast. Unfortunately I went with a lease. The first year the lease payment was less than the cost of my average electric bill and covered my usage fairly well. My normal utility bill was basically nothing other than some fees and a few dollars. 10 years latter my lease has gone up about 30% and my SCE bill is back to where it was before I had solar installed. So basically I'm a bit more than double in cost overall. I would have no problem trouble shooting or repairing anything on my system as I have done a few commercial installs in recent years. The problem is that the company that leases the PV system would know if an inverter was replaced or any panels or optimizers were added.
My neighbor bought into Sun Run scheme of leasing. They did a subpar job but she got a $1000 cash card from Costco.
Should at least got a lease to buy contract...
@@SolarizeYourLife For all I know it could be that type of contract but locating the paperwork might be difficult. I can't even remember the name of the company that installed the system but they must of sold out to Tesla because that's who bills me now. My memory is not the greatest but I think they said I only pay for what the system produces. I live in a 1800 square foot house and have upgraded every luminaire to LED. Never run my AC and have a variable speed pump serving my pool. Appliances are "energy star" and automation on much of my lighting circuits.
My solar bill is just under $100 and my SCE bill is about the same. Basically $2,400 per year. I have no idea how much cost would be involved in a system that would eliminate my Edison bill but I bet it's not cheap.
I’ve talked to more people that say don’t go solar than people that say go solar.
These are all people who have it.
Batteries have been a real winner for us. We saw our power bill drop from $400 or so a month to $10 a month, the connection fee. Our originally payback period for solar and the batteries was around 10 years. With these rate hikes it looks closer to 7 years.
I bought some solar panels back in 2015 and got back about $75 a year. Now every year I’m paying about 300 more dollars for my electricity at the end of the year.
That's because they moved the peak from mid-day to early evening, which they are allowed to do. Anyone under NEM 1.0 still has a great deal though.
Thank you for this video. We live in the Mojave Desert and purchased our system earlier this year. We missed out on NEM 1.0 and 2.0 and now fall under SPB (Solar Power Billing) or as some call it NEM 3.0
We are actually much happier with this. We have 21 panels and a Tesla Powerwall 3.0 battery on our 1340 square foot home which is as close as possible to being off the grid. This system was installed by a local contractor for $24K after the 30% rebate and we paid cash. No loan. He did all the work himself which is a plus. I have heard horror stories of contractors who hired sub-contractors which made warranty repairs a nightmare.
We make very little credit on the excess energy sold back to the grid, but we knew that ahead of time. We are just happy that the battery allows us to use at night what we generate throughout the day. Since we live where there is about 320 days of sunshine a year, we are 100% self-powered daily.
Not only that, if the grid goes down, the battery will supply power to our Critical Load Panel keeping our refrigerator, garage door, WiFi and living room fully powered. Can't do that with an older system without a battery.
But there is one more feature. Tesla allows those with a Powerwall 3.0 battery to participate in the Virtual Power Plant (VPP). From May through October, when grid demand reaches a critical level in California, Tesla will buy power from your battery for up to two hours per event, no more than 5 times a month. In return, Tesla will kick VPP participants a $300 check at the end of the season. This has nothing to do with the utility. We participated and it had no effect on our storage, we still had enough to get us through the night.
Anyone thinking about going solar, stop thinking about it and just do it!
One more thing- I work for one of the public utilities. Not going to say which one because it doesn't matter. Rates will continue to rise for all of them
Thanks for the insight.
Now it makes more sense to invest in batteries as save juice for prime hours when electricity costs more. Pricing at different hour strategies are a choice in some cases. Set up a small backyard system with batteries and just take it with you when you move into your van.
HOA's, apartments and condominiums also have restrictions on solar. Normally in a condo or townhouse community the HOA owns, maintains and insures the roof and exterior walls of the community. If you install solar, you need the HOA's permissions and also assume all responsibility for roof leaks and roof maintenance.
🖕HOAs🖕
We were going to go solar. It sounded like a great idea. We lose our power here in Winston-Salem very often, we thought we could figure out a way to solve the problem, using solar a solar system. I assumed a battery was the solutions, but they did not offer it.
Of course, solar panels lose their power slowly over the years . Batteries also lose their power to store energy. It all didn’t make any good sense. We decided to wait and study the situation.
An inverter generator with multiple fuel sources to use I think is the most logical solution at this time .
I’ll upgrade main panel box, set it up to backfeed safely.
One thing I wanna mention is our neighbors have Generac systems for backup. They makes so much noise.
The dollar (really the Federal Reserve Note) is collapsing (we showed the rest of the world it was dangerous to use by stealing their deposits or locking g them out with sanctions). Having a fixed payment that only goes up at 3% a year is better than it sounds. At some point the cash flow to the holder of the debt may not be enough and they’ll abandon the equipment. These are considerations.
Unless you have a new house (new houses use less energy), it can make sense to add solar based on how much sun you get on your roof. If your roof is shaded (trees, other house, mountains, marine layer), it may not be worth it. Day length near the equator is ideal. Further away you have to produce and store enough energy on the shortest day of the year to power the longest night of the year if you’re not on the grid; that’s wasteful all the other days of the year.
This is a custom business because of all the variables. Eventually we will probably go back to nuclear, the other clean energy. Silver is about to get expensive, meantime.
Correct, leasing solar does still make more sense than sticking with the power company. However over the long term, most homeowners will do better off by just purchasing their systems under the ownership model.
I would suggest a home equity loan if you are interested in solar but don't have all of the cash in hand. Interest rate is going to be lower and if you do sell your house it will get paid off with the proceeds, so that neither you nor the new owner has to mess with solar financing.
I bought grid tied solar 10 years ago, nothing fancy. Had one optimser die in the first five years on warranty. The main upkeep is climbing up the roof and cleaning the panels every quarter or particularly once after the rain stops. I haven't paid a electricity bill since installing and received almost 4 digit checks each year, but the checks amounts were decreased 75% starting in 2023 when they changed the rates for everyone. I was able to charge 2 leased EVs at home and generate power, but i dumped all EV in 23 and now have hybrids. I guess I'm on track for ROI still. I'm looking at adding batteries / inverter upgrade soon. Just gotta time it right.
The real solution is buying used systems for a fraction of the cost, then install it yourself. This is much easier than most expect, before seeing how quickly the job is finished. As well, sheds can be built for various reasons, one of which is an ADU option, as cities allow insulation and plug in electric option. This provides roof space to expand the solar system, and will be needed for housing options, an issue currently in political discussion now.
Simple rule don't use a grid tie inverter because the grid can't handle extra amount of energy without improving the infrastructure off-grid is the best way to go
Even if it means doing something illegal Shenanigans like having an RV full of solar panels or a vehicle on Wheels like a trailer with solar panels to get around the loopholes
At the end of the lease, you either upgrade entire system for same or higher cost than original system or the reposes the entire system and leave holes in your roof. There is no buyout option
The problem with battery storage. In most states, you are still required by state laws to be hooked up to power utilities, and you are charged a monthly fee by power company even if you use zero power from the grid
You're always going to have an electric bill. If you add it all up, you don't save anything.
Another way to decrease your power bill . . . Have a smaller & energy efficient house. When I lived in Southern California my Spring & Fall electricity bill averaged around $40-60 a month. My peak summer bill with AC going was $200. A neighbor 4 blocks up the hill with a bigger house had power bill of $1100 a month during the summer.
You can buy a solar and wind turbine system for 2-3k with battery backup. Make it off grid when power goes out run on battery. How much power do you really need? Look for an off grid RV or Cabin system! Mine is prefect. I can run led lights, TV PC and small refrigerator. Also my rice cooker and coffee machine when needed. I paid 1700 dollars and 500 for install. Wanted a real electrician do do the wires. Took 2 hours!
I've heard that some homeowners' insurance companies refuse to insure homes with rooftop solar, since the inevitable roof penetration frequently cause leaks and related damage.
2023 we put 130% of average usage-on our house. Financed it. $38000.- 11000 federal credit payed back loan company. Average 2022 yearly bill $3600/year. Now yearly solar bill 2400. No bill from SCE. In June 2024 SCE said we had $1200 credit. We ask for pay out and it was $133. They charge 20 kWh but only pay 0.02 kWh. Anyway we’re still saving at least 1200 dollar year and possible more if SCE prices climb we have large house and expensive to cool Riverside county
Good video! I installed a 24 panel system almost 20 years ago. Fortunately, I went with Enphase micro inverters so haven't had to replace the monolithic inverter. I generate approximately 8 kW at peak sun, which is approximately 80% of my power needs. I, unfortunately have a pool, so need way more power. I do have net metering and just noticed the other day that my meter runs backwards still. I went from paying roughly $300 per month to an average of $50 per month.
Good for you guys!
Plan on moving to LV soon, definitely glad to subscribe!!!
DO NOT TRUST PALMETTO SOLAR, OUT OF SOUTH CAROLINA, LIARS ALL THE WAY THROUGH, TOLD ME I WOULD NEVER SPEND A PENNY TO NV. ENERGY, I WOULD PURCHASE THE PANELS, NOT LEASE. I AM 80 YO AND NOW HAVE $58,000 TOTAL AT 25 YRS PAYOFF OF $149 A MONTH, AND NV ENERGY TWICE
DECLINE THEIR INSTALL INSPECTIONS, BUT SOMEONE TURNED PANELS ON, BUT THEY ARE NOT REGISTERING AND DOING ANYTHING.
When we leased we were placed on the lowest tier for cost. If we were to add to our system to beef it up, it would add another lease which would
kick us off the great tier we're on. We did luck out with this system 7 years ago. In California the power companies screw homeowners with the
highest costs between 4pm and 9 pm every day. They jack up the cost triple because they're beholden to Greasy Newsom. We've beat the system
with a company, Sunrun, amazingly were ethical in setting up our agreement. If you get with a good company then you're lucky, avoid a finance
company called Mosaic, they will complete a contract using the tap portal in your name and start billing you for a system you never got.
If you can't add batteries to your solar and go off grid, it's a SCAM.
We used the HERO plan to replace out HVAC heating/cooling system. We upgraded and it was $17k. The plan put a lien on our home which was paid off. It took hours on the phone, trips to the bank and many letters and forms to get a paid off notice and release of the lien. Never again will we use any government program.
Thanks for giving the pros and cons of solar. Crazy how expensive electricity has become in California. I lived in San Diego in the late 60s - early 70s and electric bill was $18.00 a month. Didn't have air conditioning and didn't need it. In the winter I used oven to warm up before going to work. The weather was beautiful.
Clean air is a priority in CA
In nyc. I got solar panels (purchased not rent). My coned bill started out with 18 a month. They passed something and snuck in some fee/tax just for having solar panels. Now it's 25 dollars a month. Scammed.
At least you’re honest about it. Many won’t admit it.
Nice presentation Jack! Very concise and specific and included important issues such as possible increasing payments, installer company going bankrupt in the future and the increased difficulty of selling the house before the system is paid off. You also mentioned the power company short-changing the value of excess power generated- I wouldn’t be surprised to see Newsom charge/tax homeowners, like he did with O
Permits are only for houses and garages..
Gazebos ,fences ,the ground itself and storage units all to be installed panels by yourself no permit needed.. if you run your power into your house like I did through the floor couple cables.
Breakouts to power adapters..
Not all my Powers free but that's okay.. I have backup with City power.
That's peace of mind
.. meanwhile I have solar and backup batteries for emergencies earthquakes and it didn't cost but a fraction of what my friend's 40,000 set up cost. And still have to pay for the city access..
Just don't put it on your house
it happened in france 14years ago. farmers took a 10year loan to install solar pannels. it was supposed to be repaid by what they sold to the electricity company. The electric company dropped the price close to null 3years later.
I heard in miami , if you have a solar panel and batteries in your garage, the insurance companies increased their bill because it increases fire hazards.
Interesting. I've had solar on my home now for 8 years. I did a lease option because I get the warranty for the life of the lease. You mentioned if the company happens to move out of state though, you no longer have anyone to cover your problems if you have any. My company is still here in San Francisco. But, if they did leave the state there is one good thing about that. When my lease is up I would be able to keep the panels instead of having them come and take them back. I did talk to my company about this and what they told me was interesting. They told me that when my lease is up even if they're still there, they likely won't come and take the panels back. At that point they will be 20 years old and to them not worth the cost of sending people here to remove them. I live in Redding CA, not SF. So it makes sense to me. But back to the panels. I've had no issues with my system so I've had no need to have any service done on them.
we did the lease and it has saved us tens of thousands of dollars. No way would I purchase it. We were paying $450/month and now pay $166..neighbors around us are now paying $800-1000/month especially with the heat wave we have had. We are in the tier 1 level for solar credist and haven't had a to pay distribution charges in 8 years. Our solar company did not put a lien on our house and the payment stays the same for the duration of the term. Now if you want to do it today, I would not lease as much since SCE took the solar incentive away
Dear California - Please keep adding solar. Why? Per the Arizona Corporation Commission which regulates Arizona utility companies, California generates so much solar power, California has to PAY Arizona utilities to take the excess or the California Grid will crash and fry. So California is paying to keep Arizona cool on these hot summer days (and winter days too).
Best thing to do is equip your garage with a hydrogen converter. You can make hydrogen gas during daytime with your solar panels and then run your vehicle and house off hydrogen gas during the night time
Conserve energy and you’re rewarded with higher rates ! 🤪
I won't put any lease or put any other loan on my house for solar. I own my house, and I'm gonna keep it that way. What I do is just turn my lights off, and I use my rv solar. I plug into my house, saves me a ton.
Yes less power bill , but you’re paying an insane amount of money for those solar panels. No one really wins, but the companies that sells these products.
What california needs is to get rid of regulations so that smaller, more affordable systems can be installed. For any home a 4kw (10 400 watt panels at 128), 1 6kw inverter and 1 5.12 kw battery would be enough to lower your bills and the equipment would cost 3830 in equipment plus shipping and tax. But this system is currently illegal in ca. It's considered too small. DIY is also illegal.
The land of the free is a f-up mess. In the Netherlands it's perfectly legal to install your own panels and you can decide yourself if it's 1 or 50. Also it's very common to pay out of pocket and don't use a shady lease construction that will haunt you for 20 years.
I just installed a smaller system no permits no permission from power company. They can suck it
@@williamkreth Yes, but in CA, if they catch you there will be a fine and you'll have to professionally have the system removed (you pay the cost).
@fernarias ground mount system been doing it for over 2 years now. No one has said or done anything about it Get
@@williamkreth You need a permit to build a ground mount system. You need permits for the entire solar system and the electrical. You need to have everything professionally installed and those professionals need to be licensed by the state. The system has to be a certain size dependent on you usage. Yes, you can skip their rules but when they catch you, you will get a large fine, you will have to hire licensed professionals to take your system down and your home insurance rate will go up if your lucky not to get cancelled.
The state of california is flying aircraft and checking satellite images to find unauthorized systems.
I think it's 2006 (the media is certainly telling everyone to buy houses) again and soon land and housing prices will fall again. So I started looking into buying land near me. My county sucks for permit prices but Mariposa is much better. While looking at their website I found all the ca regulations that are basically forcing owner to finance an expensive system.
I even heard that homeowners insurance companies will cancel your policy if they know you have solar panels installed.
diying 10 surplus panels {free}. $1,300 dollar battery..another $1500 inverter / wiring . now, i flip a switch to self consume day and night, 10 months of the year.. still pay grid connect fee..buck a day.. good hobby in SoCal..
Most solar in california dont have batteries because batteries are expensive. However without your own batteries if the grid goes down your panels are useless.
So much wrong with with this video & soo much wrong with comments🤦🏻♂️. Heres a partial. You can buy less & still benefit, good god. The warranties of the equipment are 25+ years now. You only have to pay for the initial install. The contractors license board requires craftsmanship warranties of 10 years, so you’ll be paying a tech anyway. Just find a lead installer on his lunch break & offer him the work. It’s math, read your contract & get 3 bids always. Ive been installing since 2011 & became a contractor in Cali 5 years ago. We do 100’s of projects a month. If it was not working out… I wouldn’t be a contractor long.
Here in Australia in similar climate after careful research I paid about US$3000 for basic solar no battery. Broke even in 3 years with govt subsidies
It seems to me these panel purchase subsidies are just a ploy to get the panels up on your house. The 1-1 return was fair enough. But once enough people went for it they dropped the return rates by 80%. So now they have essentially paid you through subsidies. To put solar panels on your home for them to now profit greatly from what you return to the grid. My home now produces nearly twice what we use. And we have AC running 24/7 during the summer. But last months bill was still $104. While they made an 80% profit on what I returned to the grid. Which is a considerable amount. It's nearly equal to what we use. A neighbor with AC but without solar was paying $1200+ a month. So I'm basically producing his electricity. While Edison is collecting that $1200 and giving me $240 credit for producing the energy they sold to my neighbors. They aren't moving it over long distances. It goes to the nearest needy consumer on the grid. Whom might well be right next to you. It seems like a massive bait and switch to me.
The lithium batteries have a nasty tendency to Catch FIRE which is next to impossible to extinguish.
CA has legally mandated that all types of new housing construction have solar panels installed on the roof. There is no escaping this state mandate. Avoid installing or purchasing housing with concrete tiles on the roof because the tiles easily crack or break when walked on. So much for concrete tile roofs in fire prone areas. Just watch solar panels being installed on housing with an existing concrete tile roof, the panel installer always brings a ton of replacement tiles for roof damage repair due to the panel installation. Your best solution, if available to you, is to simply sell your house and leave CA. With all CA utility rates endlessly going up and the availability of both commercial and residential property insurance from major private insurance becoming more expensive or unavailable, why stay in CA? Whatever reason you come up for staying in CA, I assure you that the CA legislature and governor will find a way to destroy it. Over 1,500 bills are annually signed into law each year! Enjoy.
Ok, the issue of what to do about your lease when you sell. In my case I have no plan to sell my home. But if I were the cost of the house would certainly include the cost of the solar panels. That's not hard to justify. Putting panels on your house is no different than doing a remodel. It improves the value of your home.
I finally convinced my brother in Cali to get solar, but I told him it's better to get an off-grid version with battery and avoid net contract... He got the grid connected bs, still don't know if he benefited or hurt him...
I have a system that has a limited 'gridtied' inverters, does not feed back but tied directly to the house power...sadly these cheap Chinese invertors are not UL CERTIFIED, but I can tell you they actually do work well...i plan on getting a legal permitted offgrid system but have to connect these uncertified inverters separately... #SOLARGORILLA
It extremely good to bring up the in and outs of financing solar roof panels. The wild AC solar panels produce doesn't allow them to be produce grid quality electricity. There is little actual savings of other fuels from home solar panel use if it is not charging storage. It is still costing the public power grid nearly the same for supporting the house with making up any dips in solar panel output as if it was supplying all the power in the first place.
This is why renewable energy from wind and solar has its percentage of electric power share advertised because it doesn't save all that much on fossil fuels. There is some fossil fuel savings, but it's small compared to the amount of wild AC that the public power grid is forced to buy at retail prices.
Residential electric rates are much more for supporting the power grid than the cost of generating electricity. Wholesale prescheduled cost of electricity is about $0.03 kWh in the USA. Southern California likely rarely has that available. That is for grid quality electricity for a set amount of time. That is not wild AC from residences that has to have its dips instantly made up when a cloud passes over a whole neighborhood of solar panels.
A home with enough solar panels to make roughly break even amount of wild AC generated electricity for the amount of electricity used in a year means the other rate payers are paying for that home's nearly full cost of power grid support, but receives no income from it.
Think about that when seeing a roof covered with solar panels. If on average that house was at $500 average a month in electric bills it now costs everybody else $6000 a year because it's covered in solar panels. That doesn't include the subsidies for the capital costs for the solar panels being payed for by the tax payers.
There is so much of that in southern California there are moments when the public power grid gets more wild AC, which it has to buy, than it can sink locally and has to pay to condition it just to get rid of it with other power grids. The public power grid is not a storage battery. There is no means for the public power grid to absorb in 4 - 6 hours a 24 hour day's worth of electricity from residence's solar panels over a large area and do something useful with it. This is not grid quality electricity.
The core economic electric power generation issue for southern California is it has no hydropower, as does northern California, and lacks high quality coal and imports 90% of its natural gas. The state government with no local coal or natural gas to power its electricity generation does not have political support for the those fuels.
The California state government wants to mine it own electric power, but unlike hydropower, solar and wind generated electricity that is not charging storage or something similar is nearly worthless for power grid use. This is where there is a basic issue with many politicians being simple legal school graduates with no developed scientific or economic discipline fall back on litigation they are trained in and seek out things like "Climate Change" to justify their actions and even make a political career out of it and profit from it.
Any well educated person needs to understand basic law which is common, but simple legal school graduates don't have to have typical mathematic or scientific ability expected from well educated persons. They can be surprisingly lacking in basic critical thinking and logic being surprisingly ordinary in these when they'd be expected to be superior.
It is scientifically impossible for greenhouse gas behavior to cause global warming. All the greenhouse radiant energy from the earth is completely absorbed in earth's greenhouse effect by greenhouse gases within 20 meters of the radiating surface that is always in saturation from the strong greenhouse gas water vapor. This is high school science. Global warming was officially stated at 1.1°C in 1991 and 1.06°C in 2022. The cause of global warming is not known as of 2024.
Excellent detailed description of the real facts of what's involved to make sure the light goes on when you activate the switch on the wall in your house. Thank you.
Solar panels are 100% DC.
Don't forget in the 70's we were cooling disastrously, oil was about to run out, and we were all going to freeze in the dark. Now the climate alarmists' graphs show we were steadily heating through the same period.
Human caused global warming is a reality, it's causes are not unknown.
The solar mandates is just the mechanism to make the PEOPLE assume the cost and liability for providing for the infrastructure which is more costly and a better tax base for the government instead of having utilities maintain/improve their infrastructure.
I've virtually lived off grid, literally for power, I have 3 100 W solar panels with 3 Group 31 batteries. Slowly going to be expanding more for panels and so on, but my electric bill is 0.😊
I added 18 panels ($18,000.00) and 1 tesla power wall ($17,000.00) I received a total of $12,000.00 back in tax returns. I have no electrical bill and receive nothing from the power company for my excess generation.
That is great.
Never tie your solar to the grid . Buy your systems outright. Keep what you get for power, learn how to do all you need with it. Put as much as you can on the systems, not selling to anyone. Cut your usage, stop using their power.
Ive been completely offgrid 23 years. You'll adapt, without the Rip-off. Use less power, you don't need a TV in every room and 3 freezers. Don't leave all the lights on.Gets lots of storage batteries, and dump the utilities ripoff system.
Some great information here that should help many understand a lot of the issues we're having in CA.
One thing that you implied is that batteries will rescue us from the loss of net metering. And apparently that's because they're so much cheaper now. We can time-shift our energy from daytime when we make it, to night time when we need to use some. Just like we used to do with net metering, but now we do it onsite.
But batteries only save us on a daily (summer, sunny) basis. And only when we make enough during the day to consume directly AND save for later. In my case, that often works in the summer, but doesn't even come close in the winters. Like most, I'm coming from an annual trueup for my solar. And I have recently lost my NEM. In the summer I banked enough kWh's to see me through the winters. There is no way I can afford or install enough battery to store up enough summer excess energy to use in the winter. I'm an all-electric household.... you know, the thing that has been championed forever while at the same time it has become unaffordable to do. In the winter I have many cold, stormy days when I only generate 3-5 kWh. If I turn on my heat-pump heat, I haven't generated enough during the day to have that heat on for more than an hour. And what if I need to charge my car? Make dinner? Heat my water? I simply can't make enough energy in the daylight to scratch the surface of my needs, much less save any for after dark. And the dark lasts a LOT longer in the winters. Even in the summers it is rough since the EV commutes and is parked away from home during the day. We can only reasonably charge it at night. No way I'm installing 80 kWh of home battery.... Nor would I be able to consistently top it up before needing to charge again. Never mind the conversion losses.
So yeah. The batteries are a pretty good way to time shift on a daily basis. But unless we have ENORMOUS advancements in size/capacity/price, it is not practical to claim that batteries will solve the "solar through winter" scenario if you are an all-electric household with an EV. Mind you, I still generate more energy than I use on an annual basis. Just now I pay many thousands of dollars for energy each year instead of.... about $10/month to be interconnected. That's the price I'm paying for being part of the solution. And that price comes AFTER the countless 10's of thousands I've spent to convert completely to an electric household.
How can you be paying many thousands per year for energy when you generate more electricity than you use on an annual basis? I live in the Nevada desert and my electric bill is over $300 a month in the summer and under $50 a month in the winter, less than $2000 annually. I understand that in California, the electricity cost is maybe 2.5 times higher than here, but since you generate most of what you need, I would expect you to pay less overall, since you're not including the cost of converting to an electric household. Are you somehow including the cost of the solar panels and installation in your calculation for what you pay for energy?
@@purelogic3595 No, I'm not considering the cost of any installed equipment. If you haven't been following the NEM disaster in CA, here is the very abbreviated and over-simplified version:
If I use electricity when the sun isn't providing enough for my needs, I pay 50c per kWh. If I'm generating enough electricity to give it back to the grid, I receive about 5c per kWh. Let's say that I generate 50 kWh in a given day. I'm away at work all day while the sun is up, and when I come home, I use just 40 kWh... but after the sun is down. I charged my car a bit, I ran the heater, I cooked dinner. All with the sun down.
In that scenario, I paid $20 (40 x 0.50) for the energy that I used when the sun wasn't up. And I "earned" $2.50 (50 x 0.05) for the energy that I put into the grid while I was away at work using nothing at home. Net cost for the day for me is $17.50, even though I generated 10 kWh more energy than I used. Multiply that $17.50 per day and it becomes many thousand$ even though I generate more than I use.
(remember I said this was over-simplified, but that gives you the general idea of what is going on here. This is the "good" scenario in the summer when there is at least enough energy to cover my usage, and I could potentially time-shift it with batteries. In the winter, things are bleak, as I don't even make close to enough energy to even bother trying to shift).
I make very little in money credit for generating into the grid. I'm charged an enormous amount for what I take out of the grid. And the only way to partially "break even" is to use the energy exactly when I'm producing it. But that means only charging the car in the middle of the day. It means only running the AC in the middle of the day. It means only running the heat in the middle of the day. (but never doing any of these at the same time in the middle of the day, as the PV system just can't produce that much power instantaniously). And even then it is impossible to exactly match consumption with production. Adding battery can help a little with this. But not in the winter when there's no way that I can even generate enough to do ONE of the many things I use electricity for. So I pay for all of it from the grid at high prices.
What happens as the batteries age? They become a fire hazard, right? Worse, replacing them costs a loot of money. How many sellers will reveal ths information to people looking to buy the house?
Buyer beware
So you never saw a gas car go up in flames just parked?!? I sure have...
I knew solar was a scam for many years since I uses to work for a energy company in CA. So glad I never bought it.
I highly recommend to OWN your solar installation.
You wouldn't want to lease your heater!!
I worked with an independent installer, covering the entire roof, for a total of 48 panels.
It's been 6 years since install, completely paid off the panels. Now it's literally putting money in the bank.
A friend of mine bought 20 solar panels off of marketplace 100 each. And the power inverter for $1,000
The best solar system that I have seen had large panels and had a Tesla Wall battery. The homeowner could shut off the grid for 1-3 days and run on the battery only. He saved about $100/month on his electric bill. However, the cost of the system was $68,000. So, to break even it will take 680 months! But, the panels will need to be replaced a couple of times by then and therefore he will never recoup his investment.
Solar panels are a scam! By the time you finish paying for them, you have to replace them.
Besides, solar panels only add about 25% of their costs to the value of the property.
And how much do the batteries actually cost? Batteries are yet another issue and cost that are blindsiding solar owners. Environmentalists sweet-talk you into buying solar panels and then when the costs go through the roof, the 'greenies' are nowhere to be found. They stick all of us consumers with the bill.