I have 33KW of the previous system. It is rock solid. With that said, this version has a lot of advantages. Especially the ability to go up to 80KW. During peak hours, I'm running 3 air conditioners and you can blow through 33KW of storage in less than 4 hours.
As someone who lives in a colder climate, the only concern I would have is that LFP batteries don't perform as well in the cold. But they allow for way more charge/discharge cycles without any battery degradation.
The two 5P on the left at 7:37, they appear to be on stands of some sort. Are those stands an Enphase product or just an illustration? If they're an Enphase product, do they eliminate the (bottom) clearance requirement. Also, what is the spacing between the 5P in this video? It appears to be greater than the minimum required by Enphase's installation guide, but I'd like to be certain and, if so, to know why it was dine this way.
I would suggest since they are using micro inverters in each battery to run separate wires to the control panel (breaker panel). I say this because max surge is 15kw on a single leg which is 125 amps and that requires a much much larger wire 0-1 gauge per leg.
Great content! Did I hear correctly that now these batteries can be installed on the other side of the house due to it being hard wired? And what about voltage drop if that is the case?
I am curious as to what you did for the Backup loads Panel, with 5 x 5P that is Whole home Backup+, Did you Move all Branch Breakers from the MSP to a Sub Panel aka Backup Panel and the MSP becomes the Backfeed Panel?? You guys are in Florida and I know the Utilities allow for Line Side Tap. In California were I located we can only Interconnect with Load Side Tap or Hawaiian Tie In...
The combined output power capacity of 5, 5P batteries is just shy of 20kWatt of continuous, sustained output. This is 2.5 times the peak sustained power draw of my SoCal home in the summer. In contrast, the 25 kWatt-hours of total capacity for all 5 can supply less than half of my daily summer solar generation and less than half of my peak daily demand this past summer. Once your 5P battery configuration exceeds your peak sustained demand, buying more batteries means you are buying battery micro-inverters you don’t need. What you need is more stored energy to cover your needs, not more sustained micro-inverter k-Watt capacity. What we need is a modular battery that supplements storage that doesn’t force us to buy unneeded micro-inverters or 5P batteries that can be configured with 2, 4 or 6 micro-inverters.
If I put a Soft Start device on my 3-ton AC system can 2 5P's power a home over night during a power outage, assuming I'm conserving as much as possible else where in the home?
Would depend on the time of year and how much you are discharging in the evening prior to sundown. In California, we start discharging batteries after 4 pm to offset peak pricing. ... Hope this helps... you can always add 1 more later. :)
So they dont have a kit to allow 3 to be grouped together inside a smaller wall space, like they had to make 3x 3P into a 10P (or 10T)? While the product seems like a step forward in most aspects, this omission is a step backwards, partially for installation in smaller spaces. I understand that even without this option it may still be possible do get more energy density (in some instances), but thats not all instances. It's also only in comparison to their own older product, not the competitions current or soon to be released products. The space it would take when maxing out the capacity is now significantly more than double the space required to max out the capacity of their older product (that had half the maximum capacity). It's also much less aesthetic, IMO.
Is the same kWh per sqft. Besides the new hardwire protocol allows you to place batteries far away from each other. Previous version had strict limitations on placement. By the way Enphase will be releasing a floor mounted rack for these 5P batteries soon.
@Edu-Rodriguez NO, it's definitely NOT the same kWh per sqft. It's roughly the same kWh per linear foot, when limited to 10 kWh, but the sqft required beyond that is quite different. Do the math on 40kWh... The 5P is significantly taller, and the 6.5 inch minimum spacing, even with the slightly better density, means they take much more space when several (especially when the 10P/T could have been used), are used together. Also, because of the additional height, when staking 1 above another the 5P leaves only about inch of play top and bottom in a, typical, 8ft garage and leaves about a ¼ inch of margin for all spacing in a 8ft vertical stack. That's less margin than some builds (especially those built to code requiring a slope for garage floors, in some areas) and less than some installers are comfortable with. Also, Enphase's minimums are less than code minimums in some areas, and those code restrictions would prevent staking of the 5P, while staking would be possible (within code) with their older generation of storage.
Agreed 100% the 10P/T design is very compact and very good looking. Imagine if tesla takes the powerwall and divide it in two or three pieces. Now the hardwire between component is a huge step forward as my system constantly has communication issues, Enphase replaced the communication module for the longer range and did not get any better to the point that they gave up and honestly i did too; I learned to live with those communications alarms as the old system is based in the horrible Zigbee protocol, i knew it was not much they could do to fix this design flaw
@@ThomMurphy Your are right in that the 5P, once installed, covers more area, especially due to clearance between modules. I was referring to kWh/ft2, since they are both very similar with around 0.9 kwh/ft2. On the other hand, the 5P is more power-dense than the 10T (0.65 kW/ft2 vs 0.35 kW/ft2). If you compare them side by side, the new 5P will cover more area for sure but the Hard-wire protocol and future floor-mounting bracket are a tremendous improvement over the 10T, that unfortunately puts too many limitations on placement due to wireless communication.
Zigbee works as long as you follow the installation guidelines and limitations, but I love the hard-wired system since it opens up so many possibilities@@pwerboost
At wholesale cost it's only like $1,000 more for 2 5p's verses the one 10T. Not including load controls, breaker, smart switch, etc. I've switched all my sales guys to selling only 5p's.
Great video. Nice and clear. The software that supports the batteries is somewhat buggy. The system, irrespective of the profile still draws power from the grid, we aren’t talking one or two watts, but 1-2kwh a day.
So much complexity with all the delicate internal components. Reliability will be an issue, as usual with Enphase. Size of footprint is incompatible with many homes.
If there's not Microinverter inside the batteries, when a battery broken, it will not have any effect to others which in parallel. So I still do not know what's the necessary to equip a microinverter inside it.
this is not the first time I'm seeing enphase has design issues with the interconnect conduit between boxes. why are you doing that? can you imagine how much pain will be to put a pipe stick between them to a specific size? just make as the normal people do - through the top or bottom of the boxes.
Enphase is the best when converting sunlight to residential useful energy. Their is no one better. Best bang for the buck When it comes to battery storage, they’re the best at that too especially with their software management. The problem is they are way too high when it comes to battery storage. I have an enphase array on my roof. It is great no problems, no hiccups., nothing from it for over 2 years. I had a quote to get a 10k back up storage system even though I already had the equipment to accommodate.. Their certified installer wanted $20000 dollars for a 10kwh battery back up. I said fuck that. That’s just a little less than the cost I put th whole roof 8k top array in for. I bought third party lithium iron phosphate battery’s 30KW worth at less than half the price they wanted for a 10kwh installation and did it my self.. enphase you need to tell your dealers to quit price gouging the customers. I do own 500 shares of their stock. That’s how much I believe in them. If they can get their price gouging battery storage dealers under control, it will be a much better investment.
The problem is with that installer. I am not sure Enphase has any say in how much these installers can charge. They can suggest a MSRP but there's no legal way for them to enforce it. I just had two 5P batteries installed recently with no existing equipment and my installer charged me $14K for a complete install. So shop around for another installer if this one is not willing to play ball.
How much these five units cost? I'm trying to compare them to the EP Cube where I can combine two inverters with 5 batteries per inverter (total of 15 KW , 33 KWH) for under $20K
Personally, I'm shooting for 55kwh with Eg4 powerwall is a much better product with 10 years warranty. My goal is to be 90% - 95% off grid. Tesla,Enphase,Franklin,Ep Cube.... do not provide a good ROI Please shop around and do not get fooled by this type of video. Enphase: 5kwh = 5 modules = $3,200 X 5 = $16k Eg4: 14.3kwh = 2 modules = $3,400 X 2 = $6,800 Goodluck😎
@@passerau The only difference is that Enphase batteries have built in Inverter. The EG4 batteries need to be paired with an inverter which is another $5,000. I think the EG4 will still come out cheaper but not the numbers you were showing.
@@AlexanderBell1847 hummm!!!! I don't think so The Enphase IQ5P is strictly an energy storage device, you will still need a microinverter on each panel. Enphase doesn't use string inverter, they use microinverters $250/unit Another $2500 (10 microinverters) on top of the $16k = $18,5k Eg4 string inverter: EG4 6000 XP = $1,500 10 solar optimizers to boost effeciency $50 X 10 = $500 Based on the setup in this video if you want to replicate that, this will be the starting price between Enphase and Eg4: Enphase: 25kwh = 5 modules = $3,200 X 5 = $16k + $2500 = $18,5k Eg4: 28.6kwh = 2 modules = $3,400 X 2 = $6,800 + $500 + $1,500 = $8,800$ Goodluck😎
@@passerau Please double check on this. I researched Enphase batteries and found they come with built-in multi-inverters (actually this is an advantage for Enphase batteries since if one inverter fails, they have others running in parallel).
So I have solar. I have 14kwh of solar. I had my old electric hot water heater catch on fire and replaced it with a tankless hot water heater. I could not be happier. My only issue now is the draw when the grid is not active. I just did the math and in total darkness I do not think five of these would have any issue running my home. Sick. But I am sure they are expensive. Very expensive since the average power outage at my home is normally a quick on and off. Some outliers are a couple of hours. In 2018 I was without power for 12 hours. I do not know that the cost justifies it yet. Now there has been a push to get rid of netmetering but I still do not see the cost benefit at this point. Just add more panels they still have to pay you for what you produce it just might not be over a monthly average. It might actually work out better. Just imagine the power company having to pay customers over the summer and then charge them during the winter.
Trying to understand what advantage these have over Tesla Powerwalls? These five units don't even add up to the capacity of two Tesla Powerwalls. They mention "lots of redundancy" several times, but that also means more complexity and lower mean-time-between-failure because there are so many components that can fail. For the amount of wall space consumed for this install they could have had 2x or even 3x the total capacity with Tesla Powerwalls which can stack on each other. Competition in the market is great, because it drives innovation, I'm just struggling to understand what that innovation is in this case.
-bigger footprints due to safer chemistry LFP vs NMC in powerwall - PW require a more complex cooling system, emphase is passive cooled - PW has only 1 inverter per every 13 kWh , emphase has roughly 18, no single point of failure, if one micro fails, the rest of the battery can still operate. - Enphase provide the entire ecosystem with modularity and redundancy from the rooftops microinverters to the batteries, MID and accessories. - grid-forming IQ8 allow for a more granulated energy management that AC coupling control on the PW. also allows for blackstart capability and scalability. - smaller modules size can accommodate more precisely to homeowners needs. - 15 years of warranty - larger surge power per kWh in the emphase 5P - Enphase customer support is simple top class in the industry, a mile away from Tesla's.
@@USNEM Agreed. Some of the advantages called out by @cutlerbaysolarsolutions4181 aren't even things I understand, like grid-forming vs. AC coupling control. Clearly I've got more to learn.
wait people couple more years. don't fall for those battery storages. I am predicting that all the EVs soon will be able to host your extra solar power and power your house during power outage. Bi-direct chargers are coming and Tesla eventually also should make bi-directional communication available
Using a vehicle for energy storage for your home sounds great at first. I mean, compare the cost and storage capacity of an EV battery to the cost of the same storage capacity in a system like this and the vehicle bit (everything minus the cost of the battery capacity) seems miniscule. There are problems with only having a (hypothetical) EV battery for home energy storage, though. Obviously that the EV isn't always in the home (in most cases). So, when your energy generation is happening but the EV isn't connected, it's not storing that energy in the EV. Also, if the EV isn't home, there's, obviously, no access to the home to use energy stored in the EV. Sure, if the EV is always home, neither of these is a real issue, but then the "car bit" of the EV is just needless extra cost that's taking up way more space than necessary and likely adding cost of maintenance, insurance, depreciation, inspections, taxes, registration, etc. Most folks who'd chose to EV for some energy storage would probably still opt for some home based energy storage. Likely most systems supporting vehicle-to-home would require some home storage as well. Also, there will likely be limitations on the power output/input of EVs used for this purpose. Not to mention logging that will undoubtedly have an impact on the EVs depreciation. I think it's reasonable to expect depreciation on home storage to be less than that of an EV, as a percentage of original costs, especially if the costs of owning the EV over time are factored in with depreciation. There's also tax and rebate differences to consider. I think having access to the energy stored in an EV makes sense, along with being able to store production in an EVs battery. That said, I think it's probably best as a supplement (in some cases) to home storage, not a replacement or even good primary home battery for either capacity or power.
not sure who are those so-called "product designers", - but those 5 boxes looking so awful and each one providing only 6kWh. Why is that? Why you cannot make it like a rack standing on the ground and then you squeeze in the rack as many batteries as customer need? Why is that ugly mount to the wall. And not all the walls can handle such a load plus it is extensive damage to outdoor brick. Imagine how to remove that panel and replace or service. Be smarter guys. Even Tesla has twice in size 13.5kWh powerwall plus setup.
CURRENT BATTERIES are a rip off. The average home will need $25,000 - $40,000 worth of batteries and they only last about 10 years before you have to replace them. You will never get your investment back. No matter what they tell you under the new NEM 3.0. Based on the video and the # of solar panels and batteries. This system cost around $75,000. You notice they never mention the price.
you gotta run the calculations for yourself, don't just assume with salesmen. that battery price does sound high. General solar panels ~should allow for a profit, albeit it may take 10yrs or so to get back the initial cost. If batteries are that expensive, then yeah you prob would lose money
What you just said makes no sense whatsoever. Batteries don’t last for only 10 years, they just degrade to about 70-80% of their original capacity after 10 years (that’s in the warranty). Also, why would you buy all of those at once? Just buy what you need to maximize self consumption under NEM 3.0. Then add to the system later on (they’re expandable) as prices decrease in coming years. A 5 kWh x 5 batteries is 25 kWh of storage, that’s about $15k-$25k. That’s before the 30% tax credit. Also, people aren’t typically adding batteries for savings, they’re doing it for peace of mind, and to offset selling to the grid at a severely discounted rate under NEM 3.0.
@@LifeLongLearner-om8jx well I would say we can "hope" the batteries last that long, but we all know laptop and cell phone batteries die very easily, are solar batteries somehow different? Can any long time 10+ yr owners of solar verify?
@@timothyn4699 there’s literally a warranty from the manufacturer that says it will last that long or they will replace it with a new one for free. Lithium Iron Phosphate like the kind used increasingly for home storage applications has cycle life’s that exceed 8,000 cycles which is more than 25 years before degrading to about 70%. These are not the same chemistries as laptop or phone batteries that are lithium ion and purposefully designed to go bad after 2-3 years.
@@LifeLongLearner-om8jx ah, I've been hearing about the LiFePo4 or whatnot batteries, I think they have 3000+ cycles. I guess just be wary as some say of brand new solar companies without a reputation, a 5year warranty or etc doesn't mean much if they go out of business. If they are around and they guarantee it that long, that would be great
Oh they can still thermal runaway just not as likely. stretching the truth is still a lie. Also how they are connected is called Daisy chaining which causes more heat which means less efficient and you loose life cycles. Batteries should be connected to a busbar where the load of each battery is shared evenly which lowers how hard each battery works which makes it more efficient and prolongs the cycle lives. example of how C rating works. they have 5 5kw batteries which are most likely 100ah cells. Daisy chain( you use 10kw of electricity, that is 200amps or 2C) pulled through all batteries and how they are connected they will not even balance each other. Now Busbar( you use 10kw of electricity, that again is 200 amps but since it pulls from 5 batteries evenly each battery gives 2000 watts 40 amps which is .4C. optimal performance is achieved between 0°C and 45°C (32°F and 113°F) so in areas with high heat say 100°F that means if you work them hard they will go over 130°F easy. Lithium breaks down from heat fast and cold also. Also the hotter they get the less they give you in energy you could loose 20% just to heat. Batteries should be inside where temps are better controlled. Also salt air and humidity will also take its toll on them being outside. a garage with a mini split would be better in places with high heat and freezing cold.
10KW is 41.6 amps at 240v spec not 200 amps. Also Daisy chain refers to serial not parallel installation. These are parallel installed. Each battery can be turned on or off individually adding it to or removing it from the circuit. There are busses in each battery to connect the main to the next battery. The power doesn't go through the actual battery to the next battery. That is why they have 6 inverters in each battery pack for that battery alone.
@@dc1544 Your math still doesn't work. 10kw/200amp=50v. Common learn some math. Doesn't match any of the specs on the video or company's battery specs. You are just making shit up at this point.
I have to get an Enphase system. Fantastic technology. Enphase has created the Holy Grail of micro inverters (IQ series) that can create a micro grid. This allows the solar panels to continue creating energy that your house can use even if the Grid is down. It is also not necessary to have batteries for storage but that is a 24/7 system when you do. Any other inverter setup MUST shutdown if the Grid is down, even if the sun is still shinning. What a waste.
Wow each cell has an inverter, Talk about complicated if it goes wrong, how much do i fork out the when do i get my money back come back in ten years and we will see if they are still working. simple is most reliable.
Love the new 5p system. Great and informative video. Thanks for making it and showing off the new Enphase components
Thanks for watching!
Is it not a code violation to have these batteries within 3’ of an operable window?
Year and 1/2 later, running my system installed by Cutler Bay Solar Solutions, I have to say I am very happy. Love the new 5p system.
That’s great to hear! Thank you for sharing!!
Got to be the best video on the new 5P batteries so far. Nice work!
Thank you!!! Thanks for watching!!
I have 33KW of the previous system. It is rock solid. With that said, this version has a lot of advantages. Especially the ability to go up to 80KW. During peak hours, I'm running 3 air conditioners and you can blow through 33KW of storage in less than 4 hours.
As someone who lives in a colder climate, the only concern I would have is that LFP batteries don't perform as well in the cold. But they allow for way more charge/discharge cycles without any battery degradation.
Been trying to get information on the 5P batteries but nothing, no pricing, nada.
Finally got a price and info. I'll be beta testing soon in my house.
The two 5P on the left at 7:37, they appear to be on stands of some sort. Are those stands an Enphase product or just an illustration? If they're an Enphase product, do they eliminate the (bottom) clearance requirement.
Also, what is the spacing between the 5P in this video? It appears to be greater than the minimum required by Enphase's installation guide, but I'd like to be certain and, if so, to know why it was dine this way.
That's an enphase product.
@USNEM thanks. What's it called, or its part number?
I would suggest since they are using micro inverters in each battery to run separate wires to the control panel (breaker panel). I say this because max surge is 15kw on a single leg which is 125 amps and that requires a much much larger wire 0-1 gauge per leg.
Great content! Did I hear correctly that now these batteries can be installed on the other side of the house due to it being hard wired? And what about voltage drop if that is the case?
I am curious as to what you did for the Backup loads Panel, with 5 x 5P that is Whole home Backup+, Did you Move all Branch Breakers from the MSP to a Sub Panel aka Backup Panel and the MSP becomes the Backfeed Panel?? You guys are in Florida and I know the Utilities allow for Line Side Tap. In California were I located we can only Interconnect with Load Side Tap or Hawaiian Tie In...
love how he says "communication is hardwired through canbus" but the text says "it's hardwired through canvas"
How is there 5 batteries connected ? The IQ system controller only allows up to 4 for a max 80A's
Will I still need the IQ8A Inverters on my panels since the batteries have built-in Inverters?
Hi, yes you will need on the panels also. Battery built-in inverters are only for battery conversion
How is this possible; maximum is 4 batteries? Please explain thank you
The combined output power capacity of 5, 5P batteries is just shy of 20kWatt of continuous, sustained output. This is 2.5 times the peak sustained power draw of my SoCal home in the summer. In contrast, the 25 kWatt-hours of total capacity for all 5 can supply less than half of my daily summer solar generation and less than half of my peak daily demand this past summer.
Once your 5P battery configuration exceeds your peak sustained demand, buying more batteries means you are buying battery micro-inverters you don’t need. What you need is more stored energy to cover your needs, not more sustained micro-inverter k-Watt capacity. What we need is a modular battery that supplements storage that doesn’t force us to buy unneeded micro-inverters or 5P batteries that can be configured with 2, 4 or 6 micro-inverters.
Interesting point.
How long does it take for each battery to charge? Whole house using solar
can they be installed on top of each other vertically?
If I put a Soft Start device on my 3-ton AC system can 2 5P's power a home over night during a power outage, assuming I'm conserving as much as possible else where in the home?
Would depend on the time of year and how much you are discharging in the evening prior to sundown. In California, we start discharging batteries after 4 pm to offset peak pricing. ... Hope this helps... you can always add 1 more later. :)
what was the cost of this battery configuration, please?
In Australia the price is $10000 Aud for 5 kW battery with the controller fully installed adding additional 5kw battery will cost $5800 Aud.
@@johnl4347 Thank you
So they dont have a kit to allow 3 to be grouped together inside a smaller wall space, like they had to make 3x 3P into a 10P (or 10T)? While the product seems like a step forward in most aspects, this omission is a step backwards, partially for installation in smaller spaces.
I understand that even without this option it may still be possible do get more energy density (in some instances), but thats not all instances. It's also only in comparison to their own older product, not the competitions current or soon to be released products. The space it would take when maxing out the capacity is now significantly more than double the space required to max out the capacity of their older product (that had half the maximum capacity). It's also much less aesthetic, IMO.
Is the same kWh per sqft. Besides the new hardwire protocol allows you to place batteries far away from each other. Previous version had strict limitations on placement. By the way Enphase will be releasing a floor mounted rack for these 5P batteries soon.
@Edu-Rodriguez NO, it's definitely NOT the same kWh per sqft. It's roughly the same kWh per linear foot, when limited to 10 kWh, but the sqft required beyond that is quite different. Do the math on 40kWh...
The 5P is significantly taller, and the 6.5 inch minimum spacing, even with the slightly better density, means they take much more space when several (especially when the 10P/T could have been used), are used together. Also, because of the additional height, when staking 1 above another the 5P leaves only about inch of play top and bottom in a, typical, 8ft garage and leaves about a ¼ inch of margin for all spacing in a 8ft vertical stack. That's less margin than some builds (especially those built to code requiring a slope for garage floors, in some areas) and less than some installers are comfortable with. Also, Enphase's minimums are less than code minimums in some areas, and those code restrictions would prevent staking of the 5P, while staking would be possible (within code) with their older generation of storage.
Agreed 100% the 10P/T design is very compact and very good looking. Imagine if tesla takes the powerwall and divide it in two or three pieces. Now the hardwire between component is a huge step forward as my system constantly has communication issues, Enphase replaced the communication module for the longer range and did not get any better to the point that they gave up and honestly i did too; I learned to live with those communications alarms as the old system is based in the horrible Zigbee protocol, i knew it was not much they could do to fix this design flaw
@@ThomMurphy Your are right in that the 5P, once installed, covers more area, especially due to clearance between modules. I was referring to kWh/ft2, since they are both very similar with around 0.9 kwh/ft2. On the other hand, the 5P is more power-dense than the 10T (0.65 kW/ft2 vs 0.35 kW/ft2). If you compare them side by side, the new 5P will cover more area for sure but the Hard-wire protocol and future floor-mounting bracket are a tremendous improvement over the 10T, that unfortunately puts too many limitations on placement due to wireless communication.
Zigbee works as long as you follow the installation guidelines and limitations, but I love the hard-wired system since it opens up so many possibilities@@pwerboost
How expensive are 2 x 5P batteries as compared to 1 x 10T battery percentage wise?
At wholesale cost it's only like $1,000 more for 2 5p's verses the one 10T. Not including load controls, breaker, smart switch, etc. I've switched all my sales guys to selling only 5p's.
Great video. Nice and clear. The software that supports the batteries is somewhat buggy. The system, irrespective of the profile still draws power from the grid, we aren’t talking one or two watts, but 1-2kwh a day.
How quickly the battery kicks in ? Thanks
So much complexity with all the delicate internal components. Reliability will be an issue, as usual with Enphase. Size of footprint is incompatible with many homes.
very interesting presentation. Would it be possible to mix a system composed with IQ8M & Envoy-S & 3T battery with one additional 5P ?
No, 5p requires all version 3 components. IQ gateway 5C, all 5P batteries and IQ system controller 3
If there's not Microinverter inside the batteries, when a battery broken, it will not have any effect to others which in parallel. So I still do not know what's the necessary to equip a microinverter inside it.
this is not the first time I'm seeing enphase has design issues with the interconnect conduit between boxes. why are you doing that? can you imagine how much pain will be to put a pipe stick between them to a specific size? just make as the normal people do - through the top or bottom of the boxes.
How about the price.? How much.?
Also Vehicle to Grid power using your V2g compliant electric vehicle.
Nice work ,very proffesionals
Thank you very much!
Enphase is the best when converting sunlight to residential useful energy. Their is no one better. Best bang for the buck When it comes to battery storage, they’re the best at that too especially with their software management. The problem is they are way too high when it comes to battery storage. I have an enphase array on my roof. It is great no problems, no hiccups., nothing from it for over 2 years. I had a quote to get a 10k back up storage system even though I already had the equipment to accommodate.. Their certified installer wanted $20000 dollars for a 10kwh battery back up. I said fuck that. That’s just a little less than the cost I put th whole roof 8k top array in for. I bought third party lithium iron phosphate battery’s 30KW worth at less than half the price they wanted for a 10kwh installation and did it my self.. enphase you need to tell your dealers to quit price gouging the customers. I do own 500 shares of their stock. That’s how much I believe in them. If they can get their price gouging battery storage dealers under control, it will be a much better investment.
Exactly my issue. Great product, but the prices are insane. I was quoted $27,300 for 20kwh of these 5P batteries.
The problem is with that installer. I am not sure Enphase has any say in how much these installers can charge. They can suggest a MSRP but there's no legal way for them to enforce it. I just had two 5P batteries installed recently with no existing equipment and my installer charged me $14K for a complete install. So shop around for another installer if this one is not willing to play ball.
What is the delivery lead time of these new batteries currently?
Depends on the installer and their relationship with enphase. Some are already installing right now, others need to wait till Q4
How much these five units cost? I'm trying to compare them to the EP Cube where I can combine two inverters with 5 batteries per inverter (total of 15 KW , 33 KWH) for under $20K
Personally, I'm shooting for 55kwh with Eg4 powerwall is a much better product with 10 years warranty.
My goal is to be 90% - 95% off grid. Tesla,Enphase,Franklin,Ep Cube.... do not provide a good ROI
Please shop around and do not get fooled by this type of video.
Enphase: 5kwh = 5 modules = $3,200 X 5 = $16k
Eg4: 14.3kwh = 2 modules = $3,400 X 2 = $6,800
Goodluck😎
@@passerau The only difference is that Enphase batteries have built in Inverter. The EG4 batteries need to be paired with an inverter which is another $5,000. I think the EG4 will still come out cheaper but not the numbers you were showing.
@@AlexanderBell1847 hummm!!!! I don't think so
The Enphase IQ5P is strictly an energy storage device, you will still need a microinverter on each panel. Enphase doesn't use string inverter, they use microinverters $250/unit
Another $2500 (10 microinverters) on top of the $16k = $18,5k
Eg4 string inverter: EG4 6000 XP = $1,500
10 solar optimizers to boost effeciency $50 X 10 = $500
Based on the setup in this video if you want to replicate that, this will be the starting price between Enphase and Eg4:
Enphase: 25kwh = 5 modules = $3,200 X 5 = $16k + $2500 = $18,5k
Eg4: 28.6kwh = 2 modules = $3,400 X 2 = $6,800 + $500 + $1,500 = $8,800$
Goodluck😎
@@passerau Please double check on this. I researched Enphase batteries and found they come with built-in multi-inverters (actually this is an advantage for Enphase batteries since if one inverter fails, they have others running in parallel).
I thought batteries needed to be 36" from windows. Is that just a California thing?
So I have solar. I have 14kwh of solar. I had my old electric hot water heater catch on fire and replaced it with a tankless hot water heater. I could not be happier. My only issue now is the draw when the grid is not active. I just did the math and in total darkness I do not think five of these would have any issue running my home. Sick. But I am sure they are expensive. Very expensive since the average power outage at my home is normally a quick on and off. Some outliers are a couple of hours. In 2018 I was without power for 12 hours. I do not know that the cost justifies it yet. Now there has been a push to get rid of netmetering but I still do not see the cost benefit at this point. Just add more panels they still have to pay you for what you produce it just might not be over a monthly average. It might actually work out better. Just imagine the power company having to pay customers over the summer and then charge them during the winter.
This system can do 8kw load continuous right??
Yes, it can do 15kW continuos
How many batteries can be connected to IQ Controller 3?
I think 16
Buen video. Sería bueno una versión en español.
How much was each battery? Where is this?
25kwh battery :
Enphase: 5kwh = 5 modules = $3,200 X 5 = $16k
Prices please
Trying to understand what advantage these have over Tesla Powerwalls? These five units don't even add up to the capacity of two Tesla Powerwalls. They mention "lots of redundancy" several times, but that also means more complexity and lower mean-time-between-failure because there are so many components that can fail. For the amount of wall space consumed for this install they could have had 2x or even 3x the total capacity with Tesla Powerwalls which can stack on each other. Competition in the market is great, because it drives innovation, I'm just struggling to understand what that innovation is in this case.
-bigger footprints due to safer chemistry LFP vs NMC in powerwall
- PW require a more complex cooling system, emphase is passive cooled
- PW has only 1 inverter per every 13 kWh , emphase has roughly 18, no single point of failure, if one micro fails, the rest of the battery can still operate.
- Enphase provide the entire ecosystem with modularity and redundancy from the rooftops microinverters to the batteries, MID and accessories.
- grid-forming IQ8 allow for a more granulated energy management that AC coupling control on the PW. also allows for blackstart capability and scalability.
- smaller modules size can accommodate more precisely to homeowners needs.
- 15 years of warranty
- larger surge power per kWh in the emphase 5P
- Enphase customer support is simple top class in the industry, a mile away from Tesla's.
You might want to do some more research
@@USNEM Agreed. Some of the advantages called out by @cutlerbaysolarsolutions4181 aren't even things I understand, like grid-forming vs. AC coupling control. Clearly I've got more to learn.
For what use and for whom are these terrible background noises?
I’m beginning to think Enphase will be the Solar component companion company that I will go with. They are killing it!
Love the roof!!! 🎉❤
They take up a lot of room and 1/2 of each box is full of Microinverters!
wait people couple more years. don't fall for those battery storages. I am predicting that all the EVs soon will be able to host your extra solar power and power your house during power outage. Bi-direct chargers are coming and Tesla eventually also should make bi-directional communication available
I agree. The caveat is the cost of purchasing an EV. EV cost too much money.
@@proudpatriarch9341 you can drive EV. You cannot drive enphase.
if you're away with your car, you waste solar energy. Having a primary storage is ideal
@@fetB I'd rather waste it than will give it to utilities for free.
Using a vehicle for energy storage for your home sounds great at first. I mean, compare the cost and storage capacity of an EV battery to the cost of the same storage capacity in a system like this and the vehicle bit (everything minus the cost of the battery capacity) seems miniscule.
There are problems with only having a (hypothetical) EV battery for home energy storage, though. Obviously that the EV isn't always in the home (in most cases). So, when your energy generation is happening but the EV isn't connected, it's not storing that energy in the EV. Also, if the EV isn't home, there's, obviously, no access to the home to use energy stored in the EV. Sure, if the EV is always home, neither of these is a real issue, but then the "car bit" of the EV is just needless extra cost that's taking up way more space than necessary and likely adding cost of maintenance, insurance, depreciation, inspections, taxes, registration, etc.
Most folks who'd chose to EV for some energy storage would probably still opt for some home based energy storage. Likely most systems supporting vehicle-to-home would require some home storage as well. Also, there will likely be limitations on the power output/input of EVs used for this purpose. Not to mention logging that will undoubtedly have an impact on the EVs depreciation. I think it's reasonable to expect depreciation on home storage to be less than that of an EV, as a percentage of original costs, especially if the costs of owning the EV over time are factored in with depreciation. There's also tax and rebate differences to consider.
I think having access to the energy stored in an EV makes sense, along with being able to store production in an EVs battery. That said, I think it's probably best as a supplement (in some cases) to home storage, not a replacement or even good primary home battery for either capacity or power.
So 5 kwhrs per piece and each unit $12k USD?? 25kwhr for 60,000 USD?? Yes ???
Nope
@@USNEM how much was for this set up???
@@dr.projectx5142$3,200 each battery
So we are still wasting on DC to AC and back to DC.
buying enphase stocks!
not sure who are those so-called "product designers", - but those 5 boxes looking so awful and each one providing only 6kWh. Why is that? Why you cannot make it like a rack standing on the ground and then you squeeze in the rack as many batteries as customer need? Why is that ugly mount to the wall. And not all the walls can handle such a load plus it is extensive damage to outdoor brick. Imagine how to remove that panel and replace or service. Be smarter guys. Even Tesla has twice in size 13.5kWh powerwall plus setup.
I don’t think anything prevents from stacking these how you want as long as they are the required distance from each other.
Wohoo!!!! 😊😊😊
Those batteries will not do well. In places like South Florida with high ambient temperatures. Needs to be installed in an air-conditioned room.
Negative
CURRENT BATTERIES are a rip off. The average home will need $25,000 - $40,000 worth of batteries and they only last about 10 years before you have to replace them. You will never get your investment back. No matter what they tell you under the new NEM 3.0. Based on the video and the # of solar panels and batteries. This system cost around $75,000. You notice they never mention the price.
you gotta run the calculations for yourself, don't just assume with salesmen.
that battery price does sound high. General solar panels ~should allow for a profit, albeit it may take 10yrs or so to get back the initial cost. If batteries are that expensive, then yeah you prob would lose money
What you just said makes no sense whatsoever. Batteries don’t last for only 10 years, they just degrade to about 70-80% of their original capacity after 10 years (that’s in the warranty). Also, why would you buy all of those at once? Just buy what you need to maximize self consumption under NEM 3.0. Then add to the system later on (they’re expandable) as prices decrease in coming years.
A 5 kWh x 5 batteries is 25 kWh of storage, that’s about $15k-$25k. That’s before the 30% tax credit. Also, people aren’t typically adding batteries for savings, they’re doing it for peace of mind, and to offset selling to the grid at a severely discounted rate under NEM 3.0.
@@LifeLongLearner-om8jx well I would say we can "hope" the batteries last that long, but we all know laptop and cell phone batteries die very easily, are solar batteries somehow different? Can any long time 10+ yr owners of solar verify?
@@timothyn4699 there’s literally a warranty from the manufacturer that says it will last that long or they will replace it with a new one for free. Lithium Iron Phosphate like the kind used increasingly for home storage applications has cycle life’s that exceed 8,000 cycles which is more than 25 years before degrading to about 70%. These are not the same chemistries as laptop or phone batteries that are lithium ion and purposefully designed to go bad after 2-3 years.
@@LifeLongLearner-om8jx ah, I've been hearing about the LiFePo4 or whatnot batteries, I think they have 3000+ cycles. I guess just be wary as some say of brand new solar companies without a reputation, a 5year warranty or etc doesn't mean much if they go out of business. If they are around and they guarantee it that long, that would be great
Oh they can still thermal runaway just not as likely. stretching the truth is still a lie. Also how they are connected is called Daisy chaining which causes more heat which means less efficient and you loose life cycles. Batteries should be connected to a busbar where the load of each battery is shared evenly which lowers how hard each battery works which makes it more efficient and prolongs the cycle lives. example of how C rating works. they have 5 5kw batteries which are most likely 100ah cells. Daisy chain( you use 10kw of electricity, that is 200amps or 2C) pulled through all batteries and how they are connected they will not even balance each other. Now Busbar( you use 10kw of electricity, that again is 200 amps but since it pulls from 5 batteries evenly each battery gives 2000 watts 40 amps which is .4C. optimal performance is achieved between 0°C and 45°C (32°F and 113°F) so in areas with high heat say 100°F that means if you work them hard they will go over 130°F easy. Lithium breaks down from heat fast and cold also. Also the hotter they get the less they give you in energy you could loose 20% just to heat. Batteries should be inside where temps are better controlled. Also salt air and humidity will also take its toll on them being outside. a garage with a mini split would be better in places with high heat and freezing cold.
10KW is 41.6 amps at 240v spec not 200 amps.
Also Daisy chain refers to serial not parallel installation. These are parallel installed. Each battery can be turned on or off individually adding it to or removing it from the circuit. There are busses in each battery to connect the main to the next battery. The power doesn't go through the actual battery to the next battery. That is why they have 6 inverters in each battery pack for that battery alone.
@@Official_R_P_A To get 10kw from batteries its 200 amps from them. Parallel is same as Daisy Chaining.
@@dc1544you wilding bro. Lmao
@@USNEM no just giving facts. I think these units are great but how they are connected not so much.
@@dc1544 Your math still doesn't work. 10kw/200amp=50v. Common learn some math. Doesn't match any of the specs on the video or company's battery specs. You are just making shit up at this point.
Too expensive, no matter what
Another subsidy for the rich who benefit from the 30% tax credit.
Waaaaa! 🥲
It looks ugly.
I have to get an Enphase system. Fantastic technology.
Enphase has created the Holy Grail of micro inverters (IQ series) that can create a micro grid. This allows the solar panels to continue creating energy that your house can use even if the Grid is down. It is also not necessary to have batteries for storage but that is a 24/7 system when you do.
Any other inverter setup MUST shutdown if the Grid is down, even if the sun is still shinning. What a waste.
How much each? I read around $8,000 x 5 . thats a lot of money
Wow each cell has an inverter, Talk about complicated if it goes wrong, how much do i fork out the when do i get my money back come back in ten years and we will see if they are still working. simple is most reliable.