Top 5 Batteries for Home (And One You Might Not Expect)
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Top 5 Batteries for Home (And One You Might Not Expect). The first 100 people to use code UNDECIDED at the link below will get 60% off of Incogni: incogni.com/undecided. Adding solar panels to your home is a bright idea, but according to one report from 2020 only about 6% of installed residential solar systems included battery storage. That’s a bit of a power outage in the world of renewable energy. But with a home battery, you'll be able to store energy like a squirrel stores nuts for the winter. Not to mention, you'll be the coolest kid on the block with your Virtual Power Plant system. So, if you want to be the sunshine in your neighborhood, you should consider a home battery, but which one? Let’s take a look at the top 5 battery options on the market … and a couple of bonus alternatives to keep an eye on .. even for renters.
Corrections:
07:37 It's NMC, not LFP
07:46 It should be 9.0 kVA peak (10s) max output and AC coupled only
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Corrections: 07:37 It's NMC, not LFP, 07:46 It should be 9.0 kVA peak (10s) max output
Do you want any of these options for your home? Have any you’d add to the list? The first 100 people to use code UNDECIDED at the link below will get 60% off of Incogni: incogni.com/undecided.
If you like this video, check out Are These Batteries The Future Of Energy Storage? ruclips.net/video/n1TBAWlbXKI/видео.html
Have not but you and the other RUclipsrs of science need to do a weekly chat.... If it's possible and profitable
Nice work on the video! *Editor Note - FCP broken transition at **00:23**.* Keep the videos coming, all options need to be know as we move forward.
I'm in EU, why Sonnen wasn't considered?
We have the Enphase pannel setup on our house. So obviously that would be the option if we get into a battery.
We have more options in the EU but currently I would vote against NMC as we had several fires in Germany related to NMC storages. Rather go for LFP which is not as volatile as NMC.
Also I would not install batteries outside if the temperature drops below 10°C or even freezing point if they do not include a heating element. Charging NMC and LFP in low temperature conditions drastically decreases their capacity over time. The specs vary by manufacturer but current gen batteries just don't like being to cold.
Pylontech certified their sodium ion battery last month here in germany. These should reduce costs for storages in the future as well. So don't go all in yet.
But most likely the grid of the future will have a micro grid like structure which will be interesting to see how it will work and especially how grid cells can survive on their own and then resynchronize to the main grid if it comes back after a power outage.
There are so many technical aspects and challanges ahead.
No indication on a DIY solution. 14.5kwh of LFP prismatic Grade A cells comes in at about £2k, pair these with a decent BMS £120, and a Victron Energy MPII 5kw Inverter/charger and you're at about £4,500 plus installation, but as it's DIY we'll assume self install, resulting in a £321 per kwh system. Easy to add additional batteries and more inverters that sync for higher output peak power. Those that can, really should consider DIY as it's by far cheaper for the same facility. Equally, no one should fit NMC based home battery systems in their homes, outside and as far away as practical would be my advise given their huge risk of thermal runaway (Fire). Even without solar this system enables load shifting where time of use import tariffs are available.
Going this far with DIY is pretty much pointless nowadays, with ready built server rack batteries costing around $300/kWh, not including the inverter
Signature Solar has 5kWh batteries for $1500, rack mountable and easy to set up. Throw in one of their All In One MPPT controllers and inverters and you have a very inexpensive and easy DIY solution. Cheaper than all the systems shown here.
I don't like how the 5 options given are not very DIY and more, pre-built overpriced systems. And considering that the options provided are still including having someone do the install, the EG4 batteries would be a much better option.
I agree with others replying here. While any of the solutions Matt has discussed in this video will work, they are all insanely overpriced.
Use the EG4-LL batteries from signature solar, $1500 for 5 kWh is an absolute bargain. Stack as many as you need in parallel and use your inverter or inverters of choice.
Build a 30kWh battery for $10,500 and pair with a 15kw inverter like Sol-Ark or Victron. You could build a 15kw output, 30kWh battery based system for well under 20k.
The pre-packaged solutions are charging you out the wazoo for "convenience" and "brand name"..... in my opinion they offer little to no bang for your buck when compared to an EG4 battery based system.
Full disclaimer: I own EG4 Batteries and Victron Inverters that I bought with my own money. I am not sponsored in any way, I just hate seeing people taken advantage of by these convenience packaged systems.
I'm 50/50 on the argument.
DIY is a great option and much cheaper, but not always the nicest looking.
Eg, my Victron charger inverter and pair of lithium batteries looks like an industrial electrical box tied to a couple large car batteries with thick cables and an extension cord throw in for good measure.
Which is basically is.
I still haven't gotten around to even building a cart / stand for it all to mount to.
Now that's OK for me because I set it up as a reliable and rugged UPS for computer gear.
But it's not something that I'd want mounted on a wall next to my high end luxury car.
Luckily I have a beat up modified off road vehicle and laugh when I put new dents in the bodywork as I slide off challenging tracks.
But that's not for everybody.
I would love to see a follow up of this video looking into different options, likely split up into the many different inverter, charger, combination inverter/charger options in one section with battery options in another.
If I were to build a home, I would 100% have a room dedicated to power systems built, likely an extension of the garage.
Alas my future plans, money and ability dependent, will hopefully have me building a ocean going live aboard sailboat, with solar, hydro, backup generator and maybe wind power generation (and an electric drive engine for docking).
Just imagine building Matt's net zero home, but complete with water desalination and waste water processing, in an area less then 1/3 the size of an average house.
@@stellanclark1418 he is running a RUclips channel. Accessible top 5 lists have a way bigger audience than a DIY video that is unapproachable for most people. Think of all the skills you have that make your suggestion straight forward. Most people don’t have those skills or know what these words mean
Paying over $1000/kWh is certainly the reason most people decide to not go for battery storage. There are some very tempting options for those interested in a more DIY installation, with 48V LFP server rack batteries costing around $300/kWh
I will be non grid-tied. That will let me plug select appliances into the battery system lowering my electric bills. And it will still serve for disaster outages.
Or go with something like the seplos mason kits and grade A cells for ~$225/kWh.
@@niktak1114 That's not much of a savings over eg4-lifepower4 packs. They're priced around $300/kWh and you won't need to spend a hundred hours testing and assembling for roughly balanced capacities.
@@emailkanji I spent 0 hours testing. Grade A cells are typically quite balanced from the manufacturer.
that will go down to 200$/kWh when the new V2 sodium ion battery from CATL with 200Wh/kg comes to market.
the problem in the next years will still be a shortage of these all-in-one battery inverter systems because the demand is shooting up, now they have reached a certain cost effectiveness.
I think 48v server rack batteries are worth mentioning too. I have just added a second to my system (US5000). I will save a little each month and add another unit as I can afford. They are much cheaper to buy and no cost to add to my system.
Yea, the likes of Orient Solar being missed is a weird failure of this. He's chosen only highly integrated systems which are always relatively expensive.
who did you go with the EG4 ??
@@jamesray9009 No Pylontech. I'm in the UK and these are the big cheap units available here.
Lead acid technology is less than optimal in every sense of the word. They last only around 5 years or about 20 cycles if run to flat. They cost a lot to keep fully charged and their efficency is around 80% whattage charged to withdrawn. Against nearly 98% for Lithium technology.
@@williamarmstrong7199 no one mentioned lead acid, server rack batteries like EG4, Pylontech and Orient Power use LFP.
Something I don't think you mentioned is how ridiculously easy it is to DIY a solution, these days. With PnP inverters and server-rack batteries, going off-grid or grid-tied with DIY battery options is easier than most folks might believe. You can also save quite a bit of money in the process, plus you wind up with a much better understanding of what you have, what to expect from it, and what to do if there are ever any issues. Commercial product offerings are nice n' all, but there is stil are many DIY options in this space that are worth considering.
In a lot of places, you can't do this due to building codes. A friend of mine just went through this with a grid-tie system. He looked at all the options, but with permitting & certified installer complications, it was easier & cheaper to just go with a complete solution with a certified installer. The building inspector said that in theory DIY was possible, but it would be significantly more time/paperwork/money & would require a EE signoff. Plus his home insurance would not have covered it or any associated issues.
Was going to say the same thing. It's crazy how much less expensive something like a Sol-Ark 15K + a stack of LiPo server rack batteries is compared to these solutions.
@@ckm-mkc That's really interesting. I haven't gotten that far into it, but from what I've found so far it looks like as long as everything is UL listed (which many units are not) the code/insurance issues should go away. Obviously the "in theory" and "in practice" can vary significantly.
@@ckm-mkc. Build a battery cart. 3kwh cap 1kw inverter 400 watt solar input with 500 watt mppt. Charge controller. Cant do everything but can do a lot. Portable ish could cost $1000-1500. Lifepo battery ftw
@@ckm-mkc - If, by "a lot of places", you mean Kalifornia, then I agree. In normal places, where nuttiness is not completely out of control, it's totally doable, especially with all of the UL approved options on the market these days.
Signature Solar was the most cost effective for me plus their amazing customer support. $13,187.94 or ~$430/kwh for a system with 30.72kwh of battery, 13kw continuous inverter output, 10 year warranty. I DIY installed but if you include $4k for install you're still at $560/kwh.
I was just checking through the comments to make sure that someone said this. I love my Signature Solar server rack batteries! Super cost effective, especially if you live close enough to go pick them up in person.
Hi Thomas, thanks for your comment. We closed our new home last week, moving in around 60 days, always dreamed about owning a home and having solar system grid tied and battery backup for outages. I’ve been reading about Signature Solar from a lot of guys on youtube they seem to be great. I went in their website and saw soooo many options, could you share that awesome system you described? I think that is all i need (even though i need to be able to inject to the grid, its the cheapest way) i think around 20kwh of battery would be enough for backup. Thank you so much in advanced
Just like the previous contributor IT was making sure server rack batteries had a place in the in the discussion. Sure these batteries aren’t as fancy looking but it’s the raw cells that’s inside them that determines the amount of power delivered over time i.e. energy, with this video showing 1.00 kWh averaging around thousand dollars I would say is a very high price to pay considering top-of-the-line server rack LifePo4 from Signature solar presently cost $1600++ with a 10 year warranty, for a 5.17 kWh @ 48 V…. I think the power wall market is aimed at homeowners who ‘ just want it done’ with very little knowledge of what is inside the box . Which essentially turns out to be the same high grade A+ cells,
Worth noting, Signature solar’s latest version of there (rebranding) EG4 battery, has built-in fire extinguishers for safety..
Moreover, I think it would be worth emphasizing to much extent which of the two battery chemistry types are safest..for all the obvious reasons. Personally, I am very concerned about the handout in-mass of lithium cells to the greater public with very little long term testing for safety, DIY solar’s Will Prowse video of a battery meltdown doesn’t look like much fun, with very little to stop the reaction of the internal chemistry combustion.
I am 100% off grid and have been for 10+ years , learning curve is very steep for me and it took considerable investment in time and resources .
Wonderful you have closed on your dream home. Congratulations.
what does your battery capacity look like after 10 years?
My friends down the street, with their solar panels and generator, decided to use their EV as their home battery. It's a 75 kWh battery they can drive down the road and charge for free at the right place.
edit: Our neighborhood has spent almost 2 weeks without power in the last 6 months here in Maine.
EV with bidirectional charging aka V2H V2G V2L makes the most technical sense (leveraging the 50+ kWh battery). I hope more car manufacturers mask this available in the U.S., and elsewhere.
i am preparing to build 18 small homes next to each other. they will be ICF homes (different types for each home) all with ICF roofs. I am looking at doing different storage for each home so I can test side by side in real time for each system. It will be interesting to see how they all perform next to each other and if the entire subdivision can be linked together for a complete off grid community.
I have a Tesla powerwall and solar panels. My next step is to install an off-grid system in my garage for car charging. This means my house panels will put that much more into the grid, and it doubles as a backup for a backup. By being off-grid I also don't have to deal with some permits (others I still need) or the maximum panel limit in Colorado (was 120% of my usage, recently changed to 200%).
I went with EcoFlow. I purchased two Delta Pros. Then I purchased 2 extra batteries to pair up with the Delta Pros. So a total of 14400 Whr. I had an electrician come in and install a transfer switch so I can plug these into my house. All of this together came to around $13k US. So we are getting close to $900 per KWhr.
Eco Flow is extremely convenient, I will give them that! The generator they sell also has an increased efficiency when charging their Pro model in the event you need a backup to the solar system.
Part of that was for convenience. I'll be moving the plugs during outages.
@@macmcleod1188 - Looks like I missed an earlier post. Did it contain a link?
I use minimal power with Ecoflow Delta 2. They are sending me a new unit as mine purchased in September 2022 intermittently charges. Their customer service has been good while under warranty. Are you totally happy with yours?
@Zoyx no, I'm tired. What I meant was that a significant part of the cost was for the convenience of grid tie and automatic switch over.
One way people with less money can get by is to have a non grid-tied system and plug a few key appliances to it. This will lower their electric bills. And then during disaster outages they can plug a few extra items like lamps into it. This stand-alone setup removes the need for an electrician and inspection until you have more money.
I recently had a small solar PV system installed (7 panels) that included a small 2.4 kWh battery. (UK based, pylontech battery connected to a Solis inverter.) It is the battery that makes all the difference, and I already know I could have got three batteries the same size and still filled them up on a good day. The plan is to get another battery added next year along with 3 more panels pointed towards the evening sun. I now know a lot more about how and when my house is using energy via the app that came with the inverter, so I know that right now my house is still running on sun generated energy from earlier today. Be warned though, watching the system run everything is addictive!
Also a friend of mine has four times the amount of panels I do along with a Tesla Powerwall and several Bluetti batteries. He is all but completely off grid, or as much as you can be in the UK where you aren’t actually allowed to disconnect your house fully.
@@randomjasmicisrandom just interested in your comment that in the uk your not allowed to disconnect from the mains. Have you any reference for that? Just asking as when we had our consumer unit upgraded I asked for a "whole house isolator’ to be fitted after the meter as I thought we had a faulty meter and the isolator was cheaper then a formal investigation by the energy company. So I ‘isolated the house’ and videoed the meter for an hour - not a success as the meter just when into a ‘failed’ mode. ( used a power meter to check the meter and round we just use a lot of power 🥲)
Yes, you can easily become a battoholic!
Yes， it sounds very nice！
The vehicle to home options sound really good after watching this breakdown. Particularly the trucks with 100+ KWH batteries and 9+ KW continuous output. You get a truck that also serves as a battery backup for the price of the battery.
My 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5, 77+ kilowatt hour battery has been my home back up and my camping power and my dry off the pickle ball courts after a light rain with long extension cords and my electric leaf blower since January 2022. I’ve had solar on my home since 2012 and it’s saving me thousands of dollars every year. There were no battery options in 2012.
V2L vehicle to load is the name of their system.
The smart grid is here and we just need more folks like me and us spreading the good news and the cost savings.
The Planet will be saved because we want to save money! !!!!!!!
Connecticut has fantastic incentives for solar and home battery and electric heating and level two EV chargers in the garage. The feds have great tax credits on all too.
Matt, with your apparently more advanced tech knowledge, did you ever look at something like the EG4 Server Rack Battery Kit with a total of 30.72kWh for $8,994.00? That's roughly $344 per KWhr.
It includes a pre-assembled enclosed rack with wheels, so negates the need for any wall installations costs. They are LFP, which have a much longer cycle life than NMC. You can get them from Signature Solar with a full warranty. And will work with micro inverters such as Enphase, which are better than a single or double inverters. Or with any other inverter of your choice.
You can also configure it with a smaller battery system if that's what you prefer. They go for $1,500 for 5.1kw modules. So a 15.3kw system would go for $4,500.
I think he is restricting consideration to totally hands-off systems where someone just buys it and doesn't have to worry about design, sizing, installation, configuration, or DIY-style management apps. You are just pricing equipment alone, and for a system many people who aren't DIY or techie, would find intimidating.
Didn't realize there were so many unique option. I mostly view the server rack option and DIY LIPO batteries for cells.
I'm liking the Franklin setup for expandability, but am waiting to see how quickly sodium ion battery production ramps up. Im taking CATL, and others projections with a grain of salt for now.
The one that really has me charged up is Forever Energy's home flow battery.
No pun intended?
@@jamestucker8088 No senor😉
I'm starting to take CATL at their words, they have the chemistry and process expertise to make sensible estimates. How much of the cost saving they pass on to customers is the question.
It’s important for anyone considering these batteries in combination with their PV solar installation a few things:
1. Their utility provider’s rate program for power sold back to them. For those lucky enough to have “net metering” where their utility gives you one free KWH for every KWH sold back, the need for batteries is much less.
2. Typically PV sales and install companies charge a lot LESS for the batteries upfront with the system than after the fact. For example, I paid $8,000 per extra Tesla PowerWall battery. But it would be $12K+ to add later.
3. Tax incentives. The federal tax credit which is 30% of the cost of the installed system (including batteries) is HUGE, but only applies to the initial install system, not batteries added later.
We are pretty happy with Enphase for the following features: A) in consumption mode the house is drawing first from the solar panels, second from the battery, third from the grid, which minimizes purchased power; B) Enphase mother ship monitors the storm forecasts and switches the battery to backup mode, where power comes primarily from solar panels and secondarily from the grid; C) the Enphase app is instructive of home power draw, helping us choose how many devices we use simultaneously. I have been on this system for three years, paid a lot more than the quote in the video, but have no regrets. LFP seems to be great for getting the maximum cycles of lifetime battery usage which is quite opposite what I want from my EV (fast charging and high output).
Enphase looks like the best option. But it’s a real shame you didn’t finish with a comparison chart that showed all five - + cost and ranking.
I greatly appreciate the information you present in every one of your videos;. Your video format, information, is so easy to consume it makes considering and learning about these technologies a joy. Thank you so much for the fantastic work you do.
I agree!! Thank you so much for this one in particular, too!
Whatever you do don't waste your money on these options he is pushing. They are dramatically overpriced and NMC chemistry is not long lasting.
My money is on Forever Energy at this time...just not ready to "pull the trigger" on it.
Thank you Mat, we (my Wife and I (a retired EE)) really enjoy your content...it's pretty much the highlight of our "RUclips Tuesday".
We have SimpliPhi batteries at roughly $800/kW and rated for 10,000 cycles, and friends have EG4 batteries that are about half that price and rated for 7,000 cycles. It's definitely worth looking at the lifecycle cost per kW-HOUR, not just kW, especially if you're considering them for anything other than off-grid or power outages.
$800 per kilowatt? It would be helpful for others if you had your unit straight. Energy storage is expressed in kilowatt hours! Or do you have a water system that does 60 psi per hour? 😂
I've been following Will Prowse for years, and he has some great DIY solutions for home solar, including grid-tied systems, and they are scalable. The pricing is competitive to the systems in this video, and even more important, can have higher outputs. I saw a video with Tesla's power wall, and there is a discrepancy in the contract, where they advertise 13KWh, but the system's inverter will only allow 11 KWh. So while all of these systems look good, I think I am going to go Signature Solar. Scalable, more flexibility and power options. I'd rather have too much power than not enough.
I think the new Bluetti EP900 is going to be a game-changer. I can't wait to get one and start offering them at NC Solar Electric instead. The future of home batteries is looking great!
2 year warranty? Seems a poor value.
@@edc1569 I think that will change for the EP900 if they want to compete with other systems.
My family knows this hermit like dude who lives up in the mountains of Montana. Dude has a 150kwh battery storage that he built himself and he built a solar panel array and got some weird looking wind turbines that has these triple spiraling helix things. He also has a massive fuel generator. He used to work on a nuclear sub as an electrical engineer and is the definition of a handyman. Man is all about the DIY… I think he is building a nuclear fallout shelter lol.
I went with the SunPower SunVault. They use the EnPhase MIs, IQ7, and have the LFP chemistry, AC Coupled and can connect to the Virtual Power Plant here in CT with Eversource.
Primarily we went with SunPower for 2 reasons. Our installer that we chose and really liked is a Master Dealer for SunPower and due to the Safety of the LFP over the NMC.
I would add EVs like the F150 Lightning to the list. You could charge them off solar and off-board power during a power outage. If the power is out for an extended period of time you could drive to a public charger and recharge.
You do realize that the Ford Lightning is nothing more than a PR piece right. When actually tasked as truck (as in hauling things and towing trailers) the Ford Lightning ceases to function as a truck. Real world tests have shown that when hauling a reasonable trailer the Ford Lightning has an 80-ish mile range. When your range is that limited it becomes useless. The Ford Lightening is just a preppy status symbol "truck" which is better avoided unless image is all you are concerned about.
@@hyfy-tr2jy My guy I dont think you understood the usecase right for the F150.
The Ford F150 is the most used car in the entirety of america. Does that mean that all those F150s are used to tow trailers and haul things? I reckon not. Quite the opposite, the majority never see their intended purpose as a utility vehicle doing heavy work. Lots of contractors use F150s to occasionally haul some stuff if the need arises at best.
And thats the perfect usecase for the F150. You can store your tools in the frunk and have them always charged thanks to mains voltage outlets. Same on the bed, whole bunch of outlets that can power quite a lot of tools, perfectly reasonable if you wanna use shopvacs or saws or whatever with no main power nearby.
Also for the camper crowd, having mains voltage readily available without running a generator or god forbid the whole entire truck is pretty cool.
For the rest of the population, an electric vehicle with the style of their favourite truck is plenty enough to get the kids to school, get groceries and get to the fucking coffeeshop where you can get your overpriced Latte.
Like 90% of F150s dont ever see their intended purpose, so why are you judging the F150 Lightning without also assuming that the vast majority wont ever be used to tow shit?
It cost as much as a solar system including battery to in accessories to access the energy.
Commercials look good, but you need $4000 worth of installation to run power back to the house.
The Bonded Neutral issue makes it difficult to consider any F150 whether it is the lightning or the Hybrid as a home battery alternative. You have to have a panel installed with dedicated circuits to handle this or you will get ground faults. Sure, you can use extensions in the outlets in the truck and run some of your home off the truck but that makes it akin to the portable batteries mentioned in the video as bonus or less. I wish it were not the case because it is part of the reason I bought the F150 hybrid.
Very good summary. I'm especially interested in the smaller/portable (2-3KW) units for a van/RV conversion. If you 'RUclips' some of the fixed systems for vans (long heavy gauge wires, separate batteries, buss bars, solar inputs, MPPT, etc, etc, it quickly becomes a large mess of wires...with HUGE low-voltage line losses. All this goes away with one of the portable LFP options...plus you can use it in your home...or add a 2nd one for redundancy.
Made the same comment on Ricky's channel: in a renter scenario a product I wish existed was a cheap kit to build a small "solar trailer"
like 3 adjustable panels (tilt and rotate), one of the mobile battery solutions in a small locked and ventilated compartment. on a platform easily towed by a small electric car. IDK maybe if we have builders in the community we can come up with an opensource design.
I think the connectivity and software processes will make a huge difference. For example, running on tariffs with an hourly price. Or charge the systems automatically when a storm is coming. But even more important, actually help in stabilizing the grid. By putting energy back into the grid when necessary, or pull from grid.
One big downside with Enphase is that their continuous capacity is low (for now) so many customers would have to get two or three (maximum of four per IQ combiner box) to get a useable capacity in the event of a grid outage.
That said, I think Enphase has the safest battery with the LFP chemistry and likely the longest shelf life, too, because the microinverters add an element of safety and longevity to the batteries.
Enphase is spending R&D money to get higher continuous capacity batteries on the market, though.
That sounds good because I have a 240 well pump that would not work with the Enphase pack as it stands and would love to buy that brand.
I’m unclear what you had in mind, if you add more enphase batteries you get both more power and energy capacity until you reach your desired needs. They are just smaller building blocks, (not really less power) you can have 12x IQ battery 3s or 4x battery 10’s. Did I mention that a battery 10 is 3x battery 3s under a larger cover?
@@mpetty9947 You can run your well pump from an Enphase battery. You need two of them instead of one though.
Matt: Thank you for the summary. I was shocked by how much more expensive a home battery vs. a EV battery. An EV battery pack cost about $100-130/kWh, which is 1/10th of the cost of a home battery. We have a long way to go for home energy storage.
You are comparing the price of acquisition vs the retail price. They are different concepts
@@nick_riviera True. Automotive industry margin is between 6-10%. Even you add the margin to an automotive EV battery. It is still very much cheaper than a home battery.
EG4 48V/100Ah server rack batteries are now around $1300, or around $270.00 per KWh for 7000 cycles of 80% depth, and should last around 20 years.
We have Powerwalls and are very happy with them. Between them and the solar we have largely eliminated our electricity bill and they seamlessly take over in a power outage. We don’t even see a light flicker.
We used to spend up to 600 a month on electricity. Now the bill is around $12/mo which is the grid connection fee. We got our Powerwalls in 2020 when they had discounts and paid around 6k each and about 1k additional for the install since they were already here installing the roof solar.
Thank you for delivering amazing content, Matt!!
What about some of the rack mount batteries such as EG4?
Interesting take, but I'm kind of surprised you didn't talk about DIY solutions that grid connect. The cost of going with something like a Sol-Ark or GroWatt inverter and a rack of server rack batteries gets you crazy amounts of capacity and power draw capability.
Too impatient for sea levels to rise and reach my land locked home, I moved to a coastal area. Now, I can dip my toes with a short walk but one of the cons is, I have to think about hurricanes and my electric power going down for days. Much to consider and this video was helpful.
Great INFO, Thanks!
Hi Matt, you should definitely have a look at Victron. For home storage, they partner with Pylontec Batteries very well (any battery can serve in the range from 12 to 48V) and the system is so flexible, that it can deal with any situation. You can AC or DC connect it and even mixed installations are possible, also with existing AC inverters on both the interrupted and non-interrupted (UPS) outputs or the AC input. Victron is usually a bit more expensive, but it is easily upgradable and also supports 3-phase AC (with 3 inverters) and is easily upgradable on the inverter side by paralleling more inverters. If you want to have a look at the most flexible systems, just have a look at the Quattro and MultiPlus-II types of inverters. I'm an electronics engineer with many years of experience and I think, it is an ingenious piece of engineering in my eyes, which most inverter manufacturers could not believe is possible for the home market.
I am super excited to hear about residential flow batteries could be coming to the market in the near future!
Good reporting Matt
I run 6 x EG4-LifePower4 Lithium Battery | 48V 100AH | Server Rack Battery (31.2 KWH for $8,994). Or $288 per KWH!
I appreciate you providing options for renters - I know about a third of the US rents but in some areas, like mine in California almost half the state rents. Being able to take advantage of home batteries is something I'd like to do, even though we rent.
For comparison: my DIY system with 60kWh LFP battery, 6kW output with 18kW peak, generator input and 10kW solar input comes at €145 per kWh.
I've got the Sunpower lfp 13.2kwh battery and it was useful during g the Feb. ice storm outage. I had to conserve energy but it lasted till the solar panels started generating energy the next day. I started out with 87% battery at the start of the outage.
I hope you get better soon and everything is not too bad for you. You come across as very strong and that will be great for you and your family.
I think another price metric used should be a price per kw of energy storage over a set time frame, perhaps 10 years. This would help compare retained battery density costs over the life of the battery. So for instance a battery that appears cheaper on install for the same density might in fact turn out to cost way more due to having to replace it much sooner then another.
Love the Enphase choice Matt! As a dedicated southwest Enphase solar installer, they really are practical and efficient. Keep your eyes on Enphase's EV car charger!
Mentioned here just under 4kw constant power sounds kinda low to run a house though. Do they make a larger one or can I stack another to double it?
@@makatron Completely modular Issac! We stack them to best suit the customers needs
@@theorosenberg in already planning to deploy around 6kw in my roof and now considering maybe planning for these.
@@makatron Sounds exciting Issac! Are you in the Southwest? Google: Our World Energy and we can help answer those questions for you
@@theorosenberg actually I'm a bit more to the south, Dominican Republic. A bit more sunlight with a dash of hurricane season. 🤣
Thank you and Good Morning!
One solution of energy storage I'd like in my dream home is phase change thermal energy storage. My dream home would run on hydronics so I could have 2 large thermal batteries. One would be water that could be frozen when excess energy is produced and tapped into for cooling before drawing power from the chillers, like a thermal buffer until the chillers need to kick back on. That way it's just doing some "air" conditioning in advance.
The other would be a glorified heat pump water heater, except with an extra large tank filled with wax instead of water. The wax battery could be melted with either the heat pump or by the solar thermal loop of the hybrid photovoltaic-thermal panels, allowing for extra energy harvesting.
It doesn't seem like there are systems like this available for residential customers, but as an engineer, it doesn't seem like something too complicated to build.
Matt, love that your new home has provided you with lots of motivation on the renewables and the zero energy concepts- all the bleeding details you care to share, all the bleeding detail that will help us separate the "honest brokers" from the merely loud mouthed one. Yer doin' good, Matt!
I would love to know if Ambri is ever going to make a home version of their liquid metal batteries. They seem incredibly stable and the possible lifespan could be decades.
Yes! I've been very interested in Ambri, and I'm hoping that it takes off. There's not a lot of news about them though.
If I understand correctly, those are liquid metal batteries which mean they gotta be very hot to work. That's why they are being considered for power plants or data centers, in a home it would be hard to keep them at high temperature. I might be wrong, but that was the limitation as I remember.
Excellent overview!
Home batteries are great and I love mine for allowing me to carry my solar gains into the night, allowing me to be off-grid for most of the year. Certainly useful for that once a year power outage of two or three hours.
But far more impactful to my bills is excess solar charging!
It really helps me reduce the payback time of my install and keeps my power bills to a minimum and I actually get to use more of my solar energy instead of feeding it into the grid for peanuts!
Compared to how much electricity our two EVs use, nighttime consumption of our home is a drop in the bucket!
Great video! Any chance you could do a video about leveraging electric vehicles as a home storage/ backup option? Ford promised that with the F-150 Lightning, and VW has hinted at it.
Boy, I really strongly second the idea of a video on that topic! The California Legislature is likely to pass a law that by 2027, all EVs sold in the state must have V2G capability, and the California Energy Commission is promulgating communication protocols to assure a universal OEM approach to the subject. I don't see why you'd spent $15-$25K for residential storage, when you can get a perfectly decent EV for not much more that is 60-75KWH of rolling energy storage! This is a classic situation where the hardware is easier than the computer software and the paper policies. I'm already looking forward to this episode!
I already posted this in another comment, but I think it's worth saying phase change thermal energy storage via wax could be really powerful when tied in with hybrid photovoltaic-thermal panels and heat pump water heaters. By creating a wax based thermal battery that could be melted/charged by the heat from the panels, you can capture and store a ton more solar energy. The heat pump could be used to heat the wax when excess solar (but not thermal) energy is being produced. And you might even be able to put the cold side of the heat pump into the solar panels to increase their electrical efficiency and use the return line to heat the cold side and generate heat to melt the wax for both a higher electrical efficiency and more overall energy capture via collecting and storing the thermal energy.
Great video- thanks!
Nice video, though in my humble opinion, these are ridiculously overpriced products. I used to have a small off grid summer house with the cheapest 100Ah car batteries. I know, it's controversial, but after 6 years when I sold my summerhouse they still performed just fine, despite the system was vastly undersized. Just an example why all this systems are expensive in comparison to a simple led acid system. A classic 100Ah cheep battery is around 100 bucks. Even if we count only half of it as usable, to protect the batteries, we are talking about 200 bucks a kwh. So for 10K you can build a 60 kwh true usable battery sort of 5-6 times bigger than the other alternatives. Just my experience, but I know it's not a fancy solution.
Great video! Thank you. In a future video, I would like to hear your prospective on EV to home charging. Taking advantage of an EV’s large battery to provide temporary power might be a game changer. I could envision Tesla resisting this trend as it would cannibalize their home battery system.
Agreed! I was thinking the same thing. Video also really puts in perspective how big EV batteries are at ~50kWh compared to these 10kWh battery walls.
Absolutely. It's called bidirectional charging, V2G or V2L (vehicle to grid/load). Increasing numbers of people will have a "free" 40-70 kWh battery, or two, sitting at their house (in EVs). Some of those can already connect to a small inverter to provide 120 V of convenience power. Make that 240V (230 in Europe) and people can be paid by the utility to provide some peak power, and power their home if/when the utility fails.
Thanks for the home battery update 👍🏻
Thanks for watching!
As always fantastic info Matt!
Would love a more detailed breakdown of 'Forever Energy' and the future offerings this company is touting.
Great video Matt. Now that the Tesla LFP version 3 seems to be on the cusp of release, you might compare it to the five discussed in this video. Appreciate your great content and delivery!
Thanks great info. In South Africa we experience "loadshedding" controlled outages due to our failing national grid. So most people install solor with battaries so we can weather the loadshedding. But currently we only have two from your list available: the Testla powerwall and Ecoflow. Hybrid inverter like Sunsynk are paired with battaries and solor.
Thank you for doing all this research! It certainly helps me in mine…
i use my Ford Lightening. Hope the rest of EVs soon has some standard for bi-directional charging. It is a shame not to put into use such huge battery bank on wheels.
I will also keep an eye open for the flow batteries you were talking about. Hope you keep us too updated.
Lightning.
The issue is if you use the battery a lot you will reduce range prematurely. If you only use it for disaster outages he'll probably be fine but adding daily charge cycles could be a problem.
@@macmcleod1188 I don't think you are right there for the following reasons.
* LFP batteries have about 3000 charge/discharge cycles
* the main thing that destroys a battery is how fast you charge and discharge your batteries.
@@Soothsayer210 I agree with your statement. But clearly regularly charging and discharging the battery pack of the vehicle regularly would affect range. Say you "only" put an extra 50 cycles on it per year for example. After 12 years, that's 20% of your cycles. After 7 years, it's a year of usage.
I also had the impression that it's how low you discharge and how high you charge that wears the batteries. So you could mitigate wear by keeping the charge level above 25% and below 75%.
I largely agree with you but would keep usage of the very expensive car batteries in reserve and use a cheap set of $1500 batteries that can be easily replaced for regular use.
Great info and superbly explained.
Thanks for another educational video Matt. I am considering a hybrid system of a LYCAN from Renogy to power critical systems in my home in the event of an outage plus PV and a small generator. We live in a rural area with frequent power disruptions due to storms. At certain times of the year (i.e Spring and Fall) if the power goes out, our basements are at risk of flooding without an operational sump pump. Having what is effectively a UPS for critical loads while we are away from home gives us peace of mind. I like the LYCAN as it handles the AC, solar, and generator input plus provides clean power output. It's not as big as the batteries you have presented but is portable and could be moved if necessary.
Our system is based on a Sol-Ark inverter / battery charger / transfer switch, the only think it doesn't have is an outlet for the EV (it does have a generator input), We went with 3 Sol-Ark 12's, which was overkill, my peak power with an EV and max house load is 15KVA. Sol-Ark has an 8, 12 and 15KVA unit. The batteries are 2 eVault 18.5KWh. I spent 6 weeks in the late spring with no grid use. This winter was a killer, lots of rain and cloudy days.
Great as always, thank you!
Thanks Matt.
Very interesting and new technology on battery storage. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Matt for cramming all that info in to one concise video that I can listen while doing Sunday breakfast. Cheers!
With most people north of the 40th parallel needing heat in a large portion of the year, and I being in Canada. I think that sand batteries are a great method of preserving energy with minimal efficiency losses.
I live in a low sun/wind BC coastal area, I plan to use my available solar/wind as an independent thermal generation system. As heating at night and all fall/winter/spring are a far greater cost then my appliances. Using sand allows me to have a nearly limitless capacity in that I am designing the battery to handle 400C and can always add more sand. Using electricity to heat the sand and electronically controlled passive thermal circulation of a heat transfer oil to a radiator will allow much higher sand temperatures.
Nice, Good information
Thank you for sharing this with us. 🙋🏻♂️
Ive had a solar system with Powerwall 2 battery for the past 2.5 years. Its a great system, works well, and has reduced my annual electricity bill to zero.
You may want to check out an Australian company called ‘RedFlow’, who are selling flow batteries right now, theoretically unlimited battery life, long term storage with negligible discharge, and no fire risk (because the electrolyte is water based).
It is basically the option we are looking at for our house here in Thailand.
My brother lives in Portland Oregon, which is probably similar in solar days to your location, Matt. So I'm going to definitely encourage him to do both rooftop solar and battery storage. I'm in Southern California, solar and battery storage is a no-brainer for us.
ABSOLUTELY FIRE VIDEO
For home batteries server rack batteries are the absolute the best option and a DIY battery with LiFePO4 cells would be half the price of this again, making other solutions a waste of money. I also think that the larger battery you can afford is the better solution, but it should be at least 1 day of regular usage which would be about 60 kWh of storage for my house.
We use our electric hot water tank to store all exported power until it's full, then don't use any imported power at all for hot water heating. Has worked just great for over 4 years so far.
My Lightning has been carrying us for five days - so far. 131kW battery. I’m buying an electric Monarch tractor with a 101kW battery. Both have 220v 30amp, and 110v 20amp outlets to plug lots of extension cords. I also have a 6kW Goal Zero for portable power. ALL are portable. All are expensive. All have multiple uses.
Built my own from LFP cells, all 64 of them, I have 60kWh with a nominal output of 11.5kWh and a surge of 20kWh, cycle life of 6000 cycles on the cells. Rough cost $12000 USD. I installed myself so no cost apart from my time!
Option 6: Go completely off grid with plenty of panels (cheap) and a good MPPT which gives usable energy even when it rains. Then add a medium size (expensive) LiFePo4 and a good BMS. Add a high end inverter to get reliability. By far the most satisfying and cheapest option.
Perfect video.
Back in Oct 2022, I went with SolarEdge for my home for their solar and HD wave inverter, but with the LG RESU 16H battery (16k capacity, 7k output) and quite happy with the results thus far (havent hit the summer months with the setup yet to see just how well it does) - able to get through the whole night and when the sun comes back up, i still have not yet hit my battery reserve, so most days here in SC, i am almost completely without grid, except SE does seem to take from the grid for surges - until the battery can catch up with the demands.
I like how this is something I do a lot 😂 I cringed at the start, almost yelling at the screen, keep the angle!! but everybody learns somewhere! I started at 12 backing up the trailer for dad or grandpa. It's something I will never forget
Thank you.
I'm super excited for that flow battery!
I am building an outdoor office and I am trying to set it up to be totally energy self sufficient but also tied into my utility.
Fancy isn’t always better, just sayin. If you go with a simpler battery setup like the SOK 5.2kwh 100mah battery you can stack them into a server rack setup for a much lower cost per kWh than anything you listed. Ultimately it’s going to come down to doing the math and finding which battery profile works best with your system and which system is right for your needs.
In addition would really like to see a video on the design elements and what energy reduction solutions you incorporated into the home your building.
Put in a Tesla Solar Roof system when our roof needed replacing. The system was sized with two Tesla Powerwall2's and installed. Close to 2 years after installation and working very well in MD. Since install we have had 13 power outages from 5 min to 1 hr in duration and no drops in power to the house. Also setup the system for TOU to help with high rate times for the electric coop we belong to. Made 18.9MWh of power the first year. Now have a Tesla Model Y Long Range that we charge with excess capacity. Works well for us.
Dude.... Matt is the smartest man on YT. I say this because the amount of time he spends on research and learning everything he shows us, has to be immense. What is in his head could fill the Library of Alexandria.
I just got the SonnenBatterie 10 performance 22kWh with a sonnenProtect 8000. Fantastic! And that software! Sonnen is very big in Germany and Belgium, and now also starting up in Netherlands.
I am on a conference call tomorrow with Enphase. This has been helpful to be able to compare and have some intelligent (or intelligent sounding) questions. I am leaning their way. Thanks
Take a look at an Australian company who has just moved manufacturing to North America. The name is Redflow. I have been watching them for quite some time and their R&D improvements have been impressive. Also, recent price reductions have been quite surprising. Definitely worth a look.
I just ordered a 20.48kWh set of 48v LiFePo4 backup batteries from Signature Solar in TX for about 6 grand with welded server rack on wheels. That's $1,399 on sale for a 48v 5.12kWh battery with internal BMS. They're part of a $10k solar setup with 5.4kWh of panels to take me fully independent of supplied power from the grid. I'm retired, so I get no tax cuts from the grid-tied rebates. Mine's all OFFgrid.
I was surprised you didn't mention bidirectional EV charging. As an example, I've got a 2015 leaf w/ 24kW. We keep the charge between 20 and 85% and typically charge it in the afternoon or early evening regaining 25-40%. Our electric power utility is pretty good so we haven't seen more than a 2 hour power outage in the last 5+ years. But there's a good chance we'll have at least 40% of the ev battery available for household use. That's 9.6kW! Its "street" value currently makes it competitive with the storage devices you have listed which makes it an incredible deal as it also has 4 wheels and is a very comfortable ride for local (90% of our mobility needs) trips. There are three bidirectional charger mfrs that I'm aware of:
Wallbox
Enphase
Autel
Please keep up the great work you are doing and tell us what you learn about this strategy soon!
One of the reasons I'm strongly considering a Ford F150 Lightning truck as our next home vehicle, is because it has a significant battery that can be used for a home during blackouts. Hopefully they will meet their schedule for ramping production next year and prices will come down. Not sure if that really meets the criteria for this video since it's primary use is something else, but hey.
I’ve 22 panels on an east west layout and have just updated my battery storage with a second powerwall. Hopefully will go all electric within the next couple of years. I went with Tesla as when first installed they were the main player in home battery storage. Now there’s much larger range of batteries to choose from. U.K. installation price was £9000 with upgraded gateway 2.