Solid State Batteries are Closer Than You Think
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
- Why Solid State Batteries are Finally Here. Get 20% off DeleteMe US consumer plans: joindeleteme.com/UNDECIDED. If I said that a solid state battery (or SSB) was coming to the market soon, would you believe me? What if I told you that some of the most advanced solid state batteries ever made are right around the corner? And that the pilot programs and production facilities are already in the works? I wouldn’t believe me either, but it's true. Solid state batteries have been one of those revolutionary breakthroughs that was always just another five or so years away. But now two companies, QuantumScape and Solid Power, are on schedule for commercialization. So how exactly are they bringing their solid state batteries to the market? And what makes them special?
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So the title is just clickbait?
When we will see it
@@ashman2023LOL are you new here? All his videos are click bait. Channels like his, just post click bait titles, so that they can shill their sponsors. It’s fun info. But that’s all it is.
@@space6370how would he know?
this is an "in an optimal scenario" situation imo. we are still waiting for the fancy solarcells that are rollable from cambridge uni that was "scalable for production now" 6 years ago.
where is my tesla roadster and the ev semi? this is vaporware
Title: Solids state batteries are here
Video: Solid state batteries are 5 years away.
he said they will be in most EVs in 2028. So to say they are here was a little clickbait, but it´s not 5 years anymore
I hate how RUclips’s algorithm is making reputable creators use clickbait titles these days.
Yep. Unsubscribed.
Almost anyone that follows battery tech knows it hits small electronics first. We will see them in cell phones and laptops in the next year or so. But it was funny "2028 " dammit! lol
@BaukePosthuma technically, the title is not wrong. There are solid state batteries in testing, so they are "here"
I will charge my solid state battery car, using electricity generated by fusion power plants. Just 10 years away.
That's his info ✅
They have been for 50 years!
Fusion is more like 3-5 years away at this point. not to say it'll be here in 3-5 years, but expected timelines have dropped to there. At this rate, above-breakeven fusion demo plants will exist before you can buy a solid-state battery.
@@bgg-jp5ei You are right, but also, science doesn't operate on anyone's schedule. You have to try a bunch of stuff to figure out what does and what doesn't work. All these estimates are just that, estimates.
The exciting part for me is that they have samples that work. Figuring out the engineering challenge of scaling up is always easier than figuring out the science.
I'll leave you with an example. People were trying to figure out flight for hundreds of years. Then from 1914 to 1960 we went from flying a few hundred feet to flying supersonic and across oceans.
Once you figure out that one key piece of science that makes it all click, it becomes an engineering exercise and progress speeds up. That's what I am hoping for with solid state batteries.
Just take the shortcut and make a fusion powered car
Didn't i watch this video 5 years ago?
At this point he is just recycling the shocking videos😅 but don't worry, nuclear fusion is just 10 years away.... Always 😅
I still have stock in these
Losses are historic …. Would be cool to see them succeed…
🤔😂🤣🥹😢
🤔🤣😂😅🥹😢 my history with QS
So it i understand it correctly, the commercialization date is 2028 , so SSBs are not 5 years away now , they are 4 years away
They will be 4 years away for another 10 years, and then they will be only 3 years away.
The commercialization date is next year. 2028 was referring to it being in most EVs. Considering that it will take time for mass adoption, next year would be the right time to start in order to hit that margin.
Meanwhile LiFePO *_is_* actually here.
All credit to the 3 wise men who created Li-Ion and changed the world the last few decades, but the new Iron flavor will be the staple going into all our doohickies for the next decade
If a little moisture can destroy the things, count me out.
The 2028 prediction was made in 2023, so maybe this year they predict 2029.
Title : "Solid State Batteries are Finally Here"
Conclusion : "They need just a little bit mode time".
Like all scinetific advancement. *just 5 years away*
@@onilord1830 Aww, poor nuclear fusion, moved into the forgotten realm apparently. 😏
They are for available, where I live as 12V and 48v battery but they are like 1500$ for a 1,2kWh
always still 5 years away every 5 years since 2015
in 50 years:
Solid state battery is around the corner.
BTW, when Chinese companies claim *SSB*, they meant semi-solid-state battery. Not the same.
No but the nio et7 welion semi solid state cells do exist and it is available right now in China! Proven to go 620+real world miles.
That pack has 150kwhs out of the same size case as the catl 100kwh nmc pack and weighs just 44# more in total. 👍🏻😎
@@4literv6 I mean sure. CATL also has a semi solid state battery that is 500Wh/kg. They just call it "condensed battery" and target mostly plane manafucturers, presumably because it's too expensive for cars. Those are neat, but they aren't the real deal.
@@4literv6
uhhh how long to recharge?
Of course, just like how their Salt batteries still have lithium in them. Unlike the salt batteries made in the USA being shipped to data centers as LFP replacements that dont have any lithium in them at all. Also, LFP crashing in price now faster than the dude that intentionally crashed his airplane on social media for clicks and views. The American made salt batteries changing the entire battery market. Just picked up 280ah 12v LFP slashed down to $450. Cheaper AND better than lead acid. Lead acid days as standby batteries in UPS units are officially over! Getting those salt batteries though is apparently going to require preorders over a year out and you dont even need to buy them to feel that impact.
Solid state batteries have been "almost here", "just a few years away", "arriving to market soon" for the past 15 years at least. I'll believe it when I see it.
They been on the market for a year now in different products.
“Soon” is what Christ told his disciples. That was two thousand years ago.
You missed the "TM" on "soon", expect a lawsuit from Elon Musk who took over that trademark for every announcement he makes.
@@adr2t The actual point is that who cares if some new tech is in an overpriced, bespoke product, but when that tech is actually viable for use in products that are competitive and better than existing solutions.
So for all practical purposes...No. Over-priced niche products aren't really what everyone means when saying "arriving to market".
@@ChrispyNut Found the "ELON=B4D" bot!
I have a solid state battery from Yoshino. I run the AC on my boat when away from the dock. Works great.
I was doing some stat comparisons to offerings from eco-flow. I noticed the smaller products being pretty close (and in the case of River 2 Pro vs B660 the River wins) but the bigger versions... man, Yoshino is blowing them out of the water. Delta Pro at 3.6kw compared to the Yoshino 4kw? Yoshino is half the weight for only a few hundred dollars more.
How's the build quality and which one did you get?
@@KMCA779 Not to mention if the cycle life is true, that alone would be worth it even if it costed a bit more. They claim 4000 cycles keeping 80%+ capacity. Give me that and a starlink terminal and I'm good lol.
I highly doubt that's actually a solid state battery. Anything on the market right now is semi solid state at best.
I'm surprised gravimetric density wasn't discussed/compared; I've always thought it was more interesting than volumetric density. The main things is that higher gravimetric density equals less mass for the same amount of energy, resulting in better efficiency and range for a given energy capacity, or being able to use even smaller battery packs for the same range as different type of battery pack. It also means safer accident collision conditions, and hopefully lower costs/impacts from extracting, transporting, and processing of raw resources. Volumetric density can sort of indicate those things, but to a lesser degree I think.
Matt showed a chart for the silicon batteries that had the info. The EV battery was 390 Wh/kg their other batteries were even higher 440/kg and 560/kg (wow!) It's at 7min 20 sec mark.
... and tire life
Gravi-who?
On the flipside, volume is really important for EVs. Consider a battery with the same mass per watt, but made of something as dense as styrafoam. Huge and impractical. Perhaps you could have a combination metric, Wh/(mass * volume). I suspect you lose too much information this way.
Volume is much more important than weight. Volume is in Cars Smartphones, Gadgets very restricted. Airplanes and flying things are the only type of vehicles that need light batteries.
Title: Why Solid State Batteries are Finally Here
Video: Solid state batteries are coming by 2028.
2028: Solid state batteries are coming by 2032
This is deja vu to the 80's. Automotively speaking, solid state charge regulators came about . Which were just a standard bridge in a circuit board, covered and filled with resin.😅
Arguably by 2028 they're supposed to be available in a large volume production item like cars. Implying that lower volume production will be between then and now. So maybe one will see them in some applications already in 2026 or so.
He said they are going on sale as early as this year. 2028 is the year the CEO expects large amounts of EVs produced to use solid state batteries. Huge difference.
@@802Garage True enough for one of the companies, though wasn't the other saying something like their factory was starting to come online in 2024, so one would hope that in a year or two those products would start showing up in some areas then.
So we're down to 4 years?
always still 5 years away every 5 years since 2015
Someone needs to start a sweepstake: which will arrive first: fusion power at grid scale, or solid state batteries in production at auto scale.
I'm still waiting for my airless tires!
easily solid state batteries. The tech is there, only the economics aren't. With fusion nor the theory, nor the tech, nor the economy is there.
Honestly, they just need to adopt hot-swappable standarized sizes instead of building the vehicles on top of fixed power packs. Then 'fill up' time stops being the issue, and maintenance of everyday Size A (Automotive) cells gets passed off to the industry and not the individual, like Propane BBQ cylinder swaps, and Truck Stops suddenly think jumbo EV pack swaps are the greatest thing since Burritos
@@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing wear n tear prohibits that. Although solid state cells using less cooling overall&weighing less per pack?
Might mean that swapping thing should be reconsidered again. Have you seen the Chinese videos of ev battery swaps dropping out on the hwy?
@@4literv6 You're gonna need more than youtube video anecdotes and supposition to back that up.
I own and drive a second hand 2015 LEAF and slow charge it at home. So, for an 8 year old EVE its battery is in good shape. I hope the solid state is ready to use by the time I purchase my next car.
My husband drives a 2004 Honda CR-V. We like to keep cars running as long as possible.
I'm now on the 9th year on my 12 year old Mitsubishi i-MiEV. I was able to get a free warranty pack replacement in 2020, so I have capacity similar to when the car was new. I also trickle charge at home. The next EV (there won't be any more ICE cars here) will almost certainly have a larger pack, be less prone to heat degradation and have V2X capability.
I have a 20 year old XC90 (diesel) - hope it runs until I can get a SS EV
There are no production plants for solid state batteries anywhere
Some solid state batteries for consumers are already on the market under Yoshino power, you can buy them to power your electronics or home
Just another 5-10 years....
There's a newly built factory in Taiwan and a second one starting coonstruction now in France, for Prologium SSB batteries. Its a real product, samples are with clients as of a few months ago.
One of the reasons I subscribe to your channel is that all of the innovations out there are really fascinating and so thank you for keeping us informed. It would be a good episode though to look back of previous episodes to discover which ideas have made it to maturity and viability. Keep up the good work Matt!
always still 5 years away every 5 years since 2015
Impossibly thin electronics are not necessary. On the other hand, fitting more battery power into devices of the current thickness/mass... *that's* a worthy pursuit. Bring it on.
Amen to that. I'd rather carry around an 80s brickphone sized device if it devoted the space to retaining capabilities, improving durability, and a massive battery life. I don't need a phone I can shave with, I need a phone I can do things with.
i need the steam deck 2 to have this tech.
QuantumScape is much closer than 5 years away. Volkswagen has stated several times that they will be putting QuantumScape batteries in their cars this year.
Quantumscape has a semi solid state battery. They aren't actually solid state. That's just marketing.
@@4203105 Well actually that’s misleading and arguably completely false all together. They make a battery with a solid separator, which is the most important component.
“on schedule for commercialization” yeah… sure
always still 5 years away every 5 years since 2015
Relax. All that means is they’re set to make some commercials about it.
There is already (semi-)solid state battery EV on sale in China. I read an article that states full solid-state battery won't be much better than this even if it comes out eventually.
😄 So when will we have Sodium-Sulfur-Solid-State-Supercaps?
Right behind that backyard nuclear fusion station.
When you make it for yourself
It is going to probably be so very expensive until they can get up to scale. Also are there any plans to retro fit existing EV's that should be nearing their end of life cycles like my 2013 Tesla model S?
Considering even a 50% capacity boost id gladly buy it for double the price
Tesla should offer an option to retrofit it. And if they don't, then media should criticize them for that.
@@yensteel They can't really plan a retrofit of a product that isn't their own and doesn't actually exist yet.
Surely it is up to the battery manufacturers to make that work with Tesla. Takes 2 to tango in this case
Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as sliding the old batteries out and sliding the new ones in. Each EV has an energy management unit that controls the flow of electricity to and from the battery packs. If you change out the batteries, you need to change out this EMS, too. You also then have to change the car's software to properly interact with the new EMS. Without doing this, the software may be making requests of the EMS that may cause greater problems because the flow of energy is incorrect.
@@yensteel lol the media? Really? Why should Tesla do ANYTHING with 10 year old cars? That’s on you for buying something that we ALL a knew would be crap in 10 years. Companies shouldn’t be responsible for shit, 10 years after they made something. And if people actually cared, the customers, with the money, would tell Tesla themselves . But hey, at least you didn’t say the government should make them
I don't know why this video is so controversial. This tech is much further along since the last time I saw his video on solid state batteries, I like the updates, and it has come a lot further than I thought it would have. Commercialization is a huge step.
*NOT ONLY THAT, the charging station available wouldn't be able to charge solid state battery, now we need to wait much longer to add these new charging stations.*
Batteries have been the weakest component of electronics for a while. Having this tech catch up will be a massive efficiency gain across the board for anything that needs batteries.
US companies are always promising way too optimistic. So it is still 5 years away.
You gotta convince the investors
re: "US companies are always promising way too optimistic." translation: US companies are always "running scams" on the naive AF and the gullible AF.
it all sounds too familiar... oh no, the Soviet Union's 5-year plans!
Thx, but please include the battery capacity reduction at low temperatures, from 0F down to -30F. This is an important criterion for the colder states
'Two more weeks, just two more weeks!' This has gone for decades😁
Nice presentation. Some of the 'remaining' challenges sound pretty substantial.
Hey Mr Ferrel. Thank you for providing the translated audio to Brazilian Portuguese. It's quite good, very honest translation. May I ask which tool are you using? Your voice is perfect and there is even a bit of accent from the state of São Paulo :)
He is using an ai speech generator he mentioned in a prior video. Sorry I can’t remember the name of it. Good to hear it’s working!
I'm using dittodub.com.
I honestly am looking forward to solid state batteries for my portables. I hope in a few years I'll be able to replace my batteries in my gaming handhelds with solid state batteries. How cool would it be to have my Handheld PC run AAA titles for 50% longer? And charge faster? I look forward to it.
So for 3 hours instead of 2 hours? You do you but this seems such a first world problem to me that I cannot even describe it in english :D
The smaller the product the smaller the advantage.
Hell, I was comparing Yoshino's portable batteries with Ecoflow's and at the small end of things Ecoflow's modern batteries are actually better. More power, less weight, roughly the same size and cheaper.
Small devices and replaceable batteries are probably the last places we'll see them once demand drops.
Awesome! Definitely super hyped.
SSB's are one of the few things I've been needing to come out to make some of my ideas work. A very welcome addition.
No mention of WeLion and NIO? They just debuted a 150kwh pack for their cars. Volvo also has solid state packs on their semis I think.
*semi solid state batteries
Thanks for the video. Our car, a Smart cabrio, was over 7 years and we decided not to wait 5 years again and to go for an EV now.
The Citroën ë-C3 MAX was around €25k with subsidies in the Netherlands, so within reach of the hard working masses😁
In 5 years we will see what the new tech brings to the table, but for now, we are going to charge the EV with our solar panels. Talking about cheap . . .
Some of us the the UK too. 🙂
The average age of a privately owned car in the Netherlands is 15 years. The average fleet age is a few years younger because of lease companies buying new cars. 25k is far, far more than what the average hard worker can spend on a car.
By the time they "almost" get here, LFP batteries will be good enough for them not matter much. The new CATL batteries are awesome. Few will be willing to pay the SS premium.
My friendship with aluminum ion batteries has ended
No but fr solid state batteries are very exciting
Well, you could technically make solid state Aluminium Ion batteries as well -- the solid is just the state of the electrolyte.
Any suggestion that cars will be able to charge in 5-10 minutes is suspect marketing speak. There will be very few public charging stations capable of the 1000kW required to charge a 100kWh car battery in 5-10 minutes. (The current maximum is typically 350kW.) And I suspect those that can provide that kind of power will be very expensive to use. (Yes, I know about the 1000kW Superchargers for the Tesla Semi.)
Maybe solid state batteries will be around by the time my parents get an EV.
solid state batteries have been on the market for at least a year now in different products, soon they will be in your EV :D
Correction: when my kids get EV😂
@@adr2t Those are semi solid state batteries. Don't believe everything you read in a press release.
@@4203105 Doesnt matter, the fact its there is a truth its coming - just because a tomato is green - doesnt mean it wont turn red later on.
@@adr2t It's probably coming eventually (But not before 2030). But this is not a tomatoe, this is a green apple. Two different things.
How do they do in low temperatures, either charging, or running?
Cool how QS battery is kinda breathing or like similar when we are after lunch full, then look thin at morning when hungry. :D
We are so close to the Jetsons timeline... Or the dark StarTrek timeline. 😅
Lol I think we passed the threshold for the dark timeline when a lot of women in the US started being forced to give birth, and be monitored for miscarriages, charged and potentially jailed. Several women have nearly bled out in hospital parking lots because they needed to get that far gone before they could legally get help.
2014: Solid state batteries are five years away.
2019: Solid state batteries are five years away.
2024: Solid state batteries are five years away.
You are officially the solid state battery guy for me
Good to see some people and companies still focusing on solutions and not just problems.
Quantumscape already solved solid state batteries. They are literally commercializing them now and are about to submit B samples. VW's PowerCo verified the performance of the batteries publicly earlier this year. Quantumscape's lithium metal batteries are a real thing. The only question is whether or not QS will run out of money before they end up on the shelf. It's definitely a solved problem though.
Quantum scape has a semi solid state battery. They aren't actually solid state. That's just marketing.
@@4203105 that's totally fair. I just say solid state because that's a general term that people are familiar with. Quantumscape's batteries are technically lithium metal with a solid ceramic separator. Not technically solid state. However, as Dr. Siva Sivaram (QS CEO) said on the TD Cowen interview a few days ago, Solid State means NOTHING if you can't get them working well outside the lab. And NO ONE has a Solid State battery working well in real world conditions. Not even SLDP. SLDP had problems with thermal runaway in their A samples, their battery requires high operating temperatures, and still has not solved the problem with dendrites (cycle life). Watch the TD Cowen interview with Solid Power's CFO as well. SLDP's CFO did not inspire confidence in SLDP's offerings and STILL REFUSES (his words) to provide updated performance data on their batteries. He literally refused giving this information live. Whereas QS's *CEO* was interviewed by TD Cowen and gave a whole slideshow filled with A2 performance data and had a whole slide showing where QS is compared to competitors. QS is actually showing progress and is being open and transparent about performance and milestones. SLDP is not. I want you to compare the TD Cowen interview with SLDP and the TD Cowen interview with QS and marvel at the difference. The difference is night and day. After watching that, tell me which company you would rather trust to build a next-gen battery. I'll take the lithium metal company (QS).
@@4203105 you're right. Technically QD is lithium metal with a solid ceramic separator. Not solid state. But as Dr. Sivaram (QS CEO) said on the TD Cowen interview a few days ago, solid-state means NOTHING if solid-state batteries can't perform well or cost-competively in real world automotive conditions. If lithium metal does better than the current solid-state solutions, that's okay. SLDP for some reason put their CFO on live during their TD Cowen interview (different interview from the QS one) and refused to give any performance metrics on their latest batteries. The CFO Kevin literally refused to provide any data. SLDP A samples had thermal runaway, high operating temperatures, and haven't seriously solved the high cycle life issue. In the QS interview with TD Cowen, Dr. Sivaram provided a whole slideshow on performance metrics for the A samples that QS has provided. He also provided a slide that shows where QS is in terms of development compared to all of their competitors. QS is far ahead of everyone else, especially SLDP. I would encourage you to watch both TD Cowen interviews (SLDP and QS) because both of them occurred in the last few days. SLDP had nothing to offer and was incredibly skimpy on any details. Nothing new to report and was a nothing burger. QS'w interview essentially clarified whether A2 was made with Raptor films and confirmed the timeline for B samples delivery. The slides were packed with info about CLEAR DOCUMENTED charging and discharging capabilities and compared these to competitors. There's no comparison at all between SLDP and QS and they really shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
@@4203105 Sorry I don't know why my reply keeps getting lost. I'll post it from my PC. You're right -- QS's battery isn't fully solid state and yes, it's just marketing. They have produced an anode-free, lithium metal battery with a solid ceramic separator. Not full solid state. As Dr. Siva Sivaram (QS CEO) stated in the latest TD Cowen interview from a few days ago, solid-state means NOTHING if your solid-state battery sucks. In that interview, Siva walked through a plethora of slides demonstrating all performance characteristics of QS batteries including A0 and A1 and explained the difference in throughput from Raptor ---> Cobra. A2 was just sent out so they don't have customer or in-house testing results yet. There was so much info packed into that interview it will make your head spin. The interview solidified that A2 was NOT using Raptor films. Therefore, we will expect only B0 cells to utilize Raptor.
With that being said, now watch the TD Cowen interview with the SLDP CFO - also from like two days ago. By the way, why would SLDP even put their CFO on the interview? So he couldn't answer tough questions about the SLDP cell? Seems like a tactical cop-out. Kevin, the SLDP CFO, gave a very lame-duck interview where he refused to disclose any updated performance metrics live on air (QS provided the latest metrics on their latest data during their TD Cowen interview), and did not provide any new or meaningful information about even the latest chemistry of SLDP. When pushed about the chemistry, Kevin kept looking at his notes and reading basic bullet points that everyone already knows. SLDP hasn't addressed high operating temperatures (increases weight, complexity, and energy use and lowers energy density) and they have not addressed cycle life NOR the requirement for high pressure application for the operation of their battery. SLDP and QS shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence they are so far apart. The whole EV/green tech market is down across the board including QS but seeing SLDP dip into the mid $1.50 per share range doesn't look good. SLDP is going to have to face the music sometime.
I'm down 90% on QS, I sure hope there is a chance it will come back.
I am so sorry that these new technology names required you to use the "S" sound so many times. I am genuinely so impressed with how masterfully you pronounce everything so clearly.
Thanks. I’m taking the complement because I make S sounds a lot too.
Personally I'm betting on the Sodium Ion battery. The cost and environmental savings more than make up for the lower density in my opinion. Plus, they're on the market already!
Fusion is finally here. :)
Great video! Thanks!
I think BYD's sodium-ion might be the better way to go.
Where the sodium ion solid state batteries at?
my long range Tesla model y gets about 2 mi per percent , 180-200 miles per full charge , not 300-330 miles .....why do u always say 300-330 miles ? do u have a Tesla ?
Teslas claims vs reality.
I would believe you if a production facility was completed.
CATLs latest batteries are at 500w per KG, currently in production and in use.......with 18,000 charge cycles (that is over 40 years charging every day...) before failure.
@14:30: I don't wanna overhype solid state batteries
Titel: Solid state batteries are finally here...
I'm disappointed...
I'll keep waiting alittle while longer
Can't wait to have this for my e-bike
Hi Matt, I have a semi-solid state power station coming to review from Etaker. I am hoping these batts live up to the hype. I will let you know my opinion after I put it through testing.
Awesome! Yeah, let me know how that goes.
@@UndecidedMF Creditably?
I'll be honest, if any of these companies had any technology for manufacturing and to bring those products to market at any scale, one of the big companies would've already bought them for a couple of billion.
This video is like a review of The Winds of Winter. The book is yet to be published, but the review says it's going to be fantastic!
Will we be having to reassess the other properties of batteries, like fire resistance and thermal management?
Thanks for the overview!
I hope next time you will update us without 'almost' wording in the header.
I'm also wondering - are there any graphs on how these batteries perform depending on the temperature and charge level? are they powerful enough to run a car up to 0% and in -25C? or +45C. This info would be a great addition to the video!
Question from the back of the class: Is there a reason that solid state batteries aren't being mentioned along side home battery solutions?
Probably because current LFP batteries are fine. Using solid state batteries for home storage would be like buying a Ferrari to do the school run.
@@NickFosterWhile I definitely agree with your comparison (lol), I must ask:
And?
Lmao
Because Energy density isn't an issue for home battery solutions, cost is however which is why that part of the market is looking at LiFePo batteries currently and Sodium batteries in the near future.
Why would they be? The whole point for solid state, is for portability. Why tf would you need that at home?
@@archerpence and what?
On charge time, if you do the math on what it would take to charge an EV in 5 minutes, it often exceeds the current limit on any existing connector. Also, all existing charge stations would need a transformer upgrade to support it. The battery may support it, but it's not the only limitation.
It's also not really necessary. A 20 minute stop every few hours is fine if you plan for it.
Yup. And I think capacity is still more important than speed. Tell someone they can drive a real 500 miles then have to stop for an hour is better than only going 200 miles even if you can recharge in 10 minutes.
That's his info ✅
And how manny charging stations did the world have 10 years ago? 0? OK. A 20 min stop every few hours is ok if you plan for it? You must not know how much money that costs. I work in a company 500 emploers that are on the road the hole day. Do you realy think its fine that you pay people a lot for doing nothing to wait for the car to be charged up? Like cmon man.
@@jensv874 If you're forcing them to drive more than 2 hours without a 20 minute break, I frankly do not have sympathy for your position. This is a health issue on top of a technical issue.
@@SnappyWasHere yep, it the same things with phones, you got phone out there that can cahrge at 240w 0-100 under 20 min but battery life is only about 5 hours, or it takes 1 hour to charge but last for 10. i would pick the longer battery life every time over faster charging. Not to mention it cost alot more to provide and upgrade current infrastructure to be able to provide that type of current to fast charge in the first place which in most places we wont see it being in use
Thank you for an excellent presentation! Guess I'll start a small position in both and ease in for the long haul. Any thoughts on Enovix batter approach?
Just heard a live presentation with Kevin Paprzycki of Solid Power (5/23). Their A1 battery is on target for delivery at the end of 2024 but their business is twofold. One is battery design, where they're collaborating with BMW, Ford and South Korean SK Battery, continually getting feedback. BMW and Ford aim to have mass production for EVs in the 2030, and to meet their schedule SolidPower needs to shoot for 27/28. They do NOT want to be a mass manufacturer. Their second leg is development in electrolyte powders, and they share samples with other designers, including SK, to obtain licensing deals. Decent balance sheet of just over $400m which will carry them through the decade, or longer if grants come through. The presentation was at TD Cowen’s 2nd Annual Sustainability Week, likely recorded.
CATL has the condensed battery that is 500 watt hours which they can already mass produce if I’m not mistaken
Yeah. But it's semi solid state, just like all these "solid state" batteries coming to market now. CATL is just more honest in their advertising than all of these startups.
This is exciting. Thanks Matt.
Hope you enjoy it!
I wonder if they could use a version of aerogel to separate. Aerogels are incredibly flexible, lightweight and porous.
I am surprised that Prologium was not in your review. Maybe you only focus on US companies. Prologium is a Taiwanese company, which already has a factory in Taiwan producing 0.5Gwh (expanding to 2Gwh soon). They also invested in Dunkirk, France for a bigger factory to be built soon. Macron had a big announcement with their CEO. Look it up. Videos show the details. MB invested in Prologium.
Thank you and good morning!!!
Always right around the corner… I won’t hold my breath. But quick takeaways here... Similar amount of charging cycles, as Apple have not many problems getting a little over 2000 cycles on their phone batteries recently. Cost savings will not reach the customer, in fact, they will be more expensive. Charging time is about almost the same, but we don’t know how many times, as “minimal side effects” are not “no side effects”. Capacity is between 30-40% more, very welcome, but not game changing, as we know manufacturers will focus on using less pouches to reduce weight - so none to minor (10%) gains in EV range. So no info on the weight, as it would be good to know the weight difference between a 70kw 4680 cell battery pack vs a 70kw pouch battery pack. A game changer would be a battery which offers twice the capacity for half the weight, and can be charged in 10 minutes with no ill effects. These packs are nowhere near even a third of this, thus will not be a game changer, and just won’t be adopted for many years, due to high manufacturing costs, high costs of redesigning battery packs and their support electronics and cooling/heating systems.
Every step forward is a step in the right direction.
@@ClosedOpenness It’s not really though it it? If Tesla takes these cells and makes a cheap model 2 or 3, and it has the same range as the more expensive version, then that’s something to take note of. These batteries still have not seen the light of day, and are still theoretical.
"Twice the capacity for half the weight" in a single generation is a pipe dream. Sure, the tech advancements might make those cells possible in a decade or two, but I can't think of any technology ever quadrupling its performance in a single generation.
"So no info on the weight..." - Gravimetric density (in the table) is the column you want to look at. No info on the QS battery, but the sulfide separator battery claims over 50% higher capacity for the same weight. That means either lighter vehicles/electronics, or longer range - and it's up to the manufacturer do decide. I doubt EV ranges will increase that much, since driving for 300+ miles without any breaks is rare (and can be unsafe) - faster charging and lower weight is more likely.
I think applications for other technologies are more interesting. EV motorcycles could benefit from them, since their weight is a bigger concern than in cars; so could personal electronics, drones and (maaaybe) electric aircraft. Sure, they're gonna be expensive at first, but there is a market for them - and as the tech develops, it's gonna get cheaper.
@@wojtek4p4 If those are cheap enough to be competative with LFP, NMC and sodium. CATL has a 500Wh/kg "condensed battry" (that seems to be their version of "semi solid state") but they are only marketing it to airplane manufacturers, presumably because of the price and because gravimetric energy density doesn't matter that much in cars.
What about recyclability of the solid state batteries? Any difference compared to the currently used ones?
Fun fact, the JBL Flex bluetooth speaker in the 2024 Toyota Tacoma has a solid state battery, so it's already a mass produced technology!
So there not here then... Shit title Matt
Depends on how you look at it. They are here and being tested by partners now. That was the point I tried to hit, BUT ... I appreciate the feedback and will adjust the title.
@@UndecidedMF Much improved thanks
@@UndecidedMF you’re the ONLY one looking at it the way your click bait title says.
There is a fundamental, physical, issue with solid state batteries. A battery is a container for a chemical reaction dispatched by the flow of electrical current. Chemical reactions between solid reactants are much slower and difficult than liquid or gaseous reactants.
Almost all chemical reactions we do in laboratories make use of some liquid (water mostly) or require the reactants to be gasified. The design of the solid state batteries must provide some very large advantage to compensate the more difficult environment regarding the chemical reaction.
Sounds promising and the same type of curve as when lithium ion technology came along. We’ll get there soon enough.
Being able to charge within 15 minutes even occasionally is still good like if you're in a hurry to get to the hospital yet not in a hurry enough to call an ambience or something like that
I'm still waiting for my Mr. Fusion.
Studies show that mostly-supercharged does not loose range more than mostly-home charging.
Yes, that was a blatant bit of misinformation.
No EV for me until SS batteries. THough I love that Ionic 5 N.
That thin flat battery on my fpv drone be awesome
Now we just gotta get graphene out of the lab. And with this, I’m finally feeling optimistic.
That will be shortly after the day they start making chocolate that makes you lose weight.
@@mankepoot9440and cold fusion in a cup
@@mankepoot9440 that already exists
Grab the chocolate with a drone, take it to the highest tree branch available, and go get it
@@mankepoot9440 well, they sorta managed that with potato chips, but Olestra’s mostly banned now.
What's the end life of these batteries look like? Recyclable? I have two issues that need to be addressed before I'm on board with EVs. 1) What we do with them after their lifespan. 2) Performance in cold climates. Does a solid state battery perform just as well in -30F?
1. The gas you burn isn't recycled either, so what's your point? Gasoline's lifespan is to burn for a fraction of a second and then just turn into massive amounts of CO2 and other pollutants.
2. Plenty of gas cars already don't perform well / start reliably at -30F. And with an electric car, you don't even necessarily need to start it at that temperature, effectively, because you have a huge battery right there that can power heating elements to bring temperature-sensitive components up to an efficient operating temp if needed.
It's actually more recyclable due to the fact that they're solid. In the end of their lifespan, they can either be used as a Grid battery or recycled. 2nd Question already got answered.
Not having the Storedot battery in this list is an injustice to the video itself.
What about the batteries in portable electronics? E.g., a mobile phone's battery. Will any of the mentioned technologies be suitable for such use?
LiFePo batteries do 3000+ cycles. lithium titanate batteries do 20.000 to 30.000 cycles. The long waited wonder boy solid state does... 2000 cycles?
It is not just charge times. EV require a LOT of energy. A Tesla Model 3 has a 50kw battery that takes about 15-20 minutes to charge 80% on a 250kw charger. You want to now make that a 100KW solid state that can charge in 10 minutes? That is going to need a 1MW charger. They are already starting to water cool these cables and the power infrastructure that would be needed at charging stations if the ever want to replace the gas stations will draw more power than the towns and cities they are in. Think a typical town of say 10,000 is going to need probably 50 charging stations. They will normally not all be filled except during rush-hour (morning and night)... and this is for a 10 minute charge so you will likely need double that... and larger vehicles like the CyberTruck might still take 30 minutes at these rates. So 100 charging stations or 100MW of power likely in a city that normally uses half that.
People just do not understand that the US to reduce fossil fuel usage for everything but ships and aircraft fuel and plastics, chemicals, and lubricants will require the US to increase its power production by at least 400% and rebuild the entire power grid from the ground up. This could cost 100 trillion dollars and take 20+ years or more to achieve. Remember gasoline has a very high energy density and we have been building up the infrastructure for homes and businesses as well as transportation over the last 120 years. We will still need to use fossil fuels for energy production for a long time. Most people just think it is about buying EVs and such, but there is so much more.
It goes both ways, if you can produce a battery to use in your car, we can produce batteries that can be used on the grid and at the charging stations that can charge at a slower time or build up its storage to be release back to you or to the grid.
New Energy is getting lower and lower in price, with the benefit of being decentralized.
It is not happening over night either. Engineering Explained or Real Engineering (was it? The car guy) did a video on what it would look like if the entirety of the US switched over night, and it was just 25% more power. Roughly equivelent to all of us running ACs 8 hours a day if I recall.
All the gas subsudizes and infrastrucrure costs could go pay for that over time.
I think people with your concern fail to realize we try to produce only as much energy we need at any giving time. If there is more demand we will easily build for that demand as we always have.
There will be hurdles of course. Yet they are just that - just hurdles. They aren't walls or mountians, and won't stop progress.
@@adr2t That helps with the surges, but it adds costs in other ways. I am not saying it is impossible, but the time tables they have set ARE. What was the goal 50% EV by 2035? That is NOT going to happen.
@@toddabbott781 I might be wrong, but that was for new call sells was it not? Not ownership
@@adr2t Some places what to ban non EV sales all together by 2035. But you can not go from 7.2% to 50% in one year. This means the sales needs to keep ramping roughly 4% per year over the next 11 years. I have heard NOTHING about new power plants or rebuilding ANY of the power grid. 4% EV per year is going to add up fast and we are just not prepared at all.
Could you see car companies putting a few different battery types into the same vehicle? Some percent solid state, some LFP etc?
Good work as always 😊
Thank you! Cheers!
Looks like the charge cycles for solid state batteries are not any different than regular lithium batteries. That is a big problem when after 10 years you may have to replace your batteries and it's costs $25k to do so.
Do the math 250+mile average ev range across 2,000+cycles while retaining at least 70-80% capacity=500,000+miles!
News flash that's a LOT more total miles than 10 average year's of driving a personal use vehicle. 😀👍🏻
@@4literv6 The charge cycles for solid state batteries are between 1000 to 2000 which is the same as the old lithium batteries. What I was hearing before was the number of charge cycles for were suppose to be much higher for solid state than the regular lithium batteries.
@@michaelriecher5632 That's nice. Your car still won't need a battery replacement after 10 years.
Pretty clickbaity. Always been 5 years away...and now they're supposedly 4 years away...
That ad segway was elite
For 90+% of people and their daily driving. Current battery tech is fine. Tesla batteries are fine exception for the charge time. Which is only an issue in long road trips.
I'm waiting on a graphene aluminum battery, like GMG is building. Hopefully less than a decade away from mass production now.
Hey graphene, aluminum battery seems like the ultimate battery of the future.
CATL already had the tech.. but the price is not economy friendly, that's why they make semi solid state until they make solid state batteries cheaper
CATL only has semi solid state batteries. And they do make it, just not for cars and such, only for planes.