Great video. I know you don't consider yourself a tuner but we'd like to see more tuning content like this. A few ideas would be to talk about plug heat range, show screen shots of your spark tables to show how you set up timing throughout the rpm range as opposed to just peak power. Maybe even spend a little time sustaining a load to simulate something like the silver state racing you did.
A class I took earlier this month touched on this topic. Basically, they showed us a car with a VERY safe base tune, and had us look at how the HP & TQ curves tracked after 5250. It was amazing what sprinkling a little timing in did. I 100% had an AH-HA moment.
Richard, can you compare the boost levels on the engines vs timing. Specifically on the Turbo . I ask, because on turbo motors, i always lose some boost when I advance timing. This is due to a more complete burn inside the chamber vs a still burning mixure getting to the turbine with less timing. I think that is why the turbo motor did not show as much gain as the others. It would be interesting if we discuss how the timing changes affected all 3 engines Boost Levels.
@@richardholdener1727 absolutely, I meant that with a hot turbo setup you can maintain the high timing but increase the fuel to air ratio so that you get more unburnt fuel into the exhaust stream to create more exhaust energy before the turbo and spin it up higher for more boost/ power. The differences with power on similar boost levels is due to forced air temps rising, turbos can compensate for this issue by allowing the tuning to provide more fuel past the exhaust valve and thus more boost. If the intercooler is good enough and temps were the same between boost methods then boost is power regardless how it gets there. Turbos are flexible which is nice.
Everyone just needs to remember the heavier the vehicle the less timing you can safely run. And then the combo, compression and cam timing also plays a role in how much timing a motor can handle. Keep timing lower at peak torque then ramp it in as the rpm’s get higher. I’ve trapped 159mph with a turbo 5.3 th400 setup on 30lbs of boost in a 3200lb car with me in it. I’ve tested cams and turbos small and big for years now with the same stock high mileage 04 5.3. It now sits in my garage on an engine stand. Pulled it to swap to a 2jzgte just to do something different. Fun stuff.
I wonder if the exhaust was finishing its burn before the turbine (at the late timing levels) and boosting the compressor more. If something like that was going on, you might see it in the boost curves at the different timing levels. Did the boost curves change differently with timing for the turbo compared with the other two mechanically driven superchargers? Another wondering question-my transmission likes to control torque by pulling timing. If I had a torque response like this one (turbo), it might not work too well. There’s probably a table to lay that all out.
Hmmm, so what im curious about would be, how to use knock detection while dealing with a possibly risky timing adjustment. Especially with something like 91 and meth.
How much power do the trickflows make over stock? Is it worth the huge expense? I know forced induction didn't make much difference but how about on a nitrous or n/a ls?
What about more timing with less boost to produce the same power? Say you pull 2psi of boost and add 5 timing and it makes the same power would it not be a more fuel efficient setup?
@@richardholdener1727 Yes say it was a boat motor cruising at 5000rpm. Would more timing with less boost making the same hp as more boost with lower timing be more fuel efficient?
I have a question. I just got my project running. Iys a stock 4.8 turbo and I have holley terminator x max. And idk what I should have my timing it. I have the option to set idle cruising and wot timing and not sure what to do there. Iv tried a couple things. Its runs fine but have been told it's not safe
wot timing should not exceed 26 degrees (to be safe), it should be less at the torque peak and below than at the power peak. If you are unfamiliar with these things-best to have it done by someone who understands it
@@richardholdener1727 ok I currently have my idle set at 18* cruise is set at 28 and my wot is currently at 12* to have someone tune it, it would need to be done remotely there isn't a tuner in my city
Think I can explain the turbo making a smaller gain I'm thinking the whole reason we adv timing is to raise cylinder pressure. What if the extra back pressure is already doing that. I know on two strokes the stinger diameter controls most of this and it's a balance between flow, small enough for harmonics to be hard, and timing. Idk might be off but I'd like to hear your opinion.
That's what Knock-Sensors were made for. If You run into "Knock-Retard", You need to start implementing changes that will reduce the tendency for the Engine to get into Detonation. This is what makes the difference between a "Winner", and an "also-ran", Engine.
Sure it's what knock sensors were made for, but they don't always catch knock, sometimes they false knock, and engines don't always make more power with more timing. They're great, they're useful, but they're not foolproof.
@@curbo34 Just like everything else in Life, the more You study it, the more You find out just how much You don't know. Knock-Sensors are a cheezy hack for a proper automatic Cylinder-Pressure vs Crank-Angle Sensor/Computer combination. And, if you really start digging, You find out that the 200-year-old "Rube-Goldberg-Device" that we call a Reciprocating-Piston-Engine, is probably THE WORST, and most inefficient, way to create way to create Power. A Knock-Sensor-System simply creates an affordable way to get a "feel" for the set of circumstances that will create a dangerous condition in the Engine's operation. The trick is to Tune your Engine with a Knock-Sensor using plain-old 87-Octane "Regular" Fuel, this will give You a feel for the Timing "Curve". Actually there's a lot of factors that all affect each other, that must always be compared against each other, and controlled as accurately as possible. There are a ton of Engine-Building-Tricks that will contribute to reducing the tendency towards Detonation, but these require a lot of Time, Money, and Experience, but when combined together, they can be worth over ~100 Horsepower more than a ""it's-exactly-the-same"" Engine-Build. . . .
@@richardholdener1727 Not quite what I meant. I was trying to ask if you've seen a better balancer like an ati have any effect on other parts longevity. Ie rotating assembly
7:23 look at the torque, this engine is probably good with about 21 degrees, it doesn't increase torque after that change, then leave the timing alone and tune fuel mix.
Some time can you show us how to read the plugs in between timing changes? So we can see the correlation between heat marks and the engine saying it wants more? For us non dyno access guys.
@@Hitman-ds1ei not many people are doing what richard does when it comes to turbo ls back to back testing. but spark plug reading knowlege has been assessable for ages. so why sit around and wait for richard to make a video about it? when a 5 second google/youtube search will have him all learn't up right now.
Okay question. Say I’m jus looking to make (example) 700 hp with turbo. Would it be better to make 14 psi boost with 24 degrees of timing or 22 psi with 17 degrees and this is strictly examples……
It would be neat to see a SBE bigbang from timing. Just go up a degree per pull till something breaks. Then you can analyze what the gains or lack there of when you are getting to the limits.
You get to a point where the power gains flatten out and would start loosing power if you just kept advancing it. With normal tuning you basically advance the timing till the power gains level out, or you start picking up knock. Then back it down a little.
Good video Richard, safety first with timing haha. Could the comparative power gains be in the lsa on the cams? There is 7 degrees I think I seen in them.
Curious do you find centrifugal timing curve to be fairly flat once it gets beyond the very low RPM range since it’s increasing rpm (needs more timing with RPM) and boost (maybe less timing due to heat or knock limitations…)?
Another great video Mr. Richard!!! Did you monitor the EGT with the different timing settings? Did you happen to notice any change in the glow from the exhaust headers as the timing changed? I find it interesting that with an increase in boost that the engine responses to the increase in timing. To clarify, with boost the cylinder filling increases, the running 'CR'/cylinder pressure increases. That increased cylinder filling, during the compression stroke, should compress the mixture more and therefore require less timing for peak power-yes? Thank you.
You can do some reading on small planes, if i remember right they adjust timing so egt either drops to a certain point or its lowest, then retard timing until it raises a certain amount, someone correct me if im wrong. And different engines have different egts, but ive heard its all about relativity on a certain engine, ex higher than normal or low. You can detect a dead cylinder this way using a laser thermometer on exhaust manifold runners. And the way i think about cylinder pressure vs timing, as air density increases, it burns faster when ignited, this is the reason for less timing under boost and/or higher than stock compression. Its interesting too if im not wrong that at idle you actually have a lot of timing vs what you would think because the cylinder pressure is so low. Ideally we want the least timing possible to make peak cylinder pressure at the right time, thought it was 12-14deg atdc, i dont remember. If you can run less timing and hit that sweet spot atdc, it will make more power, because a different engine needing more timing is actually costing some power because the piston is coming up a longer distance after the burn starts. Some cylinder heads have a faster/more efficient burn than others, and thus require less timing than the others. To me spark timing, octane, and tuning is the most interesting aspect of engines. I think of octane as the ability to burn instead of "exploding". At a certain boost level, you can become octane limited, where if you tried to set timing for the sweet spot, the mixture would detonate because the peak cylinder pressure would exceed the current octane's limit, so you are forced to retard timing, where the increased cylinder volume will lower the peak pressure. Thats where higher octane comes in and why people love e85 for forced induction because it is very high octane, so they can run higher boost and with optimized timing. I find it interesting i havent seen more videos talking about timing tech, and has anyone ever wondered why max timing on many engines seems to be reached at like 3000rpm? Its strange to me, the only thing i can think of is at higher engine speeds maybe the air getting compressed at a very high rate makes it burn faster and faster? Innovate Motorsports has an interesting tech page and articles on timing and egt.
Love the video. Is there a ballpark timing number for boost like there is for nitrous. In reference to the 2 degrees for every 50hp addition with nitrous. Does boost have a same number to start with per psi of boost? As a starting point. Thanks for your time
@@richardholdener1727 "How dare you??!!" (In the Greta voice..lol) Hoth similar mods or the Chevy beefed up like car programs do often?? Lol.. Anyway, thanks for answering my questions.. Hey would you build an engine for me if I where to buy one to put together or you don't put engines together for customers??
My question is, my N/A timing is 26 degrees. But going to be around 16 degrees @10lbs on 93 octane. Do I pull all the timing as soon as boost starts to build ? Or pull basically 1 degree for every lb of boost ?
Around here there are several E85 plants and miles of corn in season so we pay $2.75 as of yesterday... The winter blends of E85 tend to have more additives to boost detonation. E85 burns much cleaner in any case. You probably know that stuff too so I will say it added power and economy as the MPG went down just slightly on our application.
Hey Richard this is Dave in Vegas having a big time trouble with a big block Chevy two-piece Main. Is it possible to get ahold of you to build my motor for me thanks bro Dave in Vegas.
This is why I always chuckle at the dope fanboys on sloppy mechanics using a "baby soft" tune that has like half the timing it needs and a ton of boost pressure.
That's how to keep SBEs to live. I would MUCH rather use 25psi and 13* to make 800whp in a 4000lb car than 18psi and 24*. Even on E60, you are just asking for trouble using the kind of timing Richard is using. I made 630whp on a 4.8L and a dinky cam with 14psi and 14*, system efficiency trumps all.
Do you use the holley to detect knock with stock sensors? Or do you have a separate knock detection module? I've been looking into buying the plex v2 knock module. Have you had an opportunity to use one for testing? I hear they're the bees knees.
I would say, this is great.. How about doing some timing optimization on pump gas, race gas and E85. most cars that are truely driven and used often ( especially in most regions that don;t have e85 or good e85 at the pump) E85 is great for a race car, but realistically, it kinda sux on the street due to maintenance and availability. Can't always be sure you will find it at the pump. Especially in the north east.
I think he does e85 because it’s a much safer fuel to tune for. When you do pump gas with forced induction, you are probably going to be knock limited. Which means that the dyno curve looks good, and it keeps making power as you add timing, but you will be getting knock and not know it. This is a different than an NA engine because you can see diminishing returns on the dyno graph as you add timing, which lets you know your are getting close to knock with out actually getting there. That just doesn’t happens with forced induction.
@@OCofthe3 Its helpful to have an ECM that has knock sensor programming in it. (OBD1 or 2) That way a person can monitor the knock counts and timing retard, and take corrective action. Or the old fashioned way-- watch for specks of aluminum on the spark plugs.
@@2lotusman851 They often retard when you dont need them too, like when a certain vibration triggers them. My 4.6 dohc never had them, qould knock at low throttle with 87 octane, was find with 91
@@richardholdener1727 I was being more jealous and playful. Not serious. Running a lq9 in a heavy escalade at 10 psi. Even with a2a Intercooler and meth, and running at 4500 ft, I can't seem to run more than 16 degrees.
Great video. I know you don't consider yourself a tuner but we'd like to see more tuning content like this. A few ideas would be to talk about plug heat range, show screen shots of your spark tables to show how you set up timing throughout the rpm range as opposed to just peak power. Maybe even spend a little time sustaining a load to simulate something like the silver state racing you did.
Richard its been far to long since we've seen something go BANG!
A class I took earlier this month touched on this topic. Basically, they showed us a car with a VERY safe base tune, and had us look at how the HP & TQ curves tracked after 5250. It was amazing what sprinkling a little timing in did. I 100% had an AH-HA moment.
Richard, can you compare the boost levels on the engines vs timing. Specifically on the Turbo . I ask, because on turbo motors, i always lose some boost when I advance timing. This is due to a more complete burn inside the chamber vs a still burning mixure getting to the turbine with less timing.
I think that is why the turbo motor did not show as much gain as the others. It would be interesting if we discuss how the timing changes affected all 3 engines Boost Levels.
87 octane 87+methanol test would be cool to do for running lower boost. Interesting to see how much you could get away with safely.
Agreed. Still wish he would have redone the meth test with 91.
Timing is everything.
Love the comparisons! I notice turbo situations can benefit from running a richer AFR.
boost requires richer AFR
@@richardholdener1727 absolutely, I meant that with a hot turbo setup you can maintain the high timing but increase the fuel to air ratio so that you get more unburnt fuel into the exhaust stream to create more exhaust energy before the turbo and spin it up higher for more boost/ power. The differences with power on similar boost levels is due to forced air temps rising, turbos can compensate for this issue by allowing the tuning to provide more fuel past the exhaust valve and thus more boost. If the intercooler is good enough and temps were the same between boost methods then boost is power regardless how it gets there. Turbos are flexible which is nice.
Everyone just needs to remember the heavier the vehicle the less timing you can safely run. And then the combo, compression and cam timing also plays a role in how much timing a motor can handle. Keep timing lower at peak torque then ramp it in as the rpm’s get higher. I’ve trapped 159mph with a turbo 5.3 th400 setup on 30lbs of boost in a 3200lb car with me in it. I’ve tested cams and turbos small and big for years now with the same stock high mileage 04 5.3. It now sits in my garage on an engine stand. Pulled it to swap to a 2jzgte just to do something different. Fun stuff.
Have you found this to be true through experience? I don't understand why weight would matter for safe timing.
How much does a dyno weigh?
love the content. quick question, I might have missed the boost details on the last two boost comparisons but did you run 15 pounds on those as well?
If you only want a street cars 500HP is more than enough. Awesome content as per usual Richard. 👏🤟🆒🔥 Aussie Fan 🤟🆒🤣
Ty sir appreciate u I love your knowledge man
I wonder if the exhaust was finishing its burn before the turbine (at the late timing levels) and boosting the compressor more. If something like that was going on, you might see it in the boost curves at the different timing levels. Did the boost curves change differently with timing for the turbo compared with the other two mechanically driven superchargers?
Another wondering question-my transmission likes to control torque by pulling timing. If I had a torque response like this one (turbo), it might not work too well. There’s probably a table to lay that all out.
Hmmm, so what im curious about would be, how to use knock detection while dealing with a possibly risky timing adjustment. Especially with something like 91 and meth.
How much power do the trickflows make over stock? Is it worth the huge expense? I know forced induction didn't make much difference but how about on a nitrous or n/a ls?
PLEASE SEE THE LS CATH HEAD TEST
with the holly terminator X. it has a timing. vs air temp its when the air Gets to hot u can make the timing. lower
Do you test with any kind of detonation sensor?
NO SIR
What about more timing with less boost to produce the same power? Say you pull 2psi of boost and add 5 timing and it makes the same power would it not be a more fuel efficient setup?
are you looking for fuel economy under boost? (and 5 degrees of timing)
@@richardholdener1727 Yes say it was a boat motor cruising at 5000rpm. Would more timing with less boost making the same hp as more boost with lower timing be more fuel efficient?
I have a question. I just got my project running. Iys a stock 4.8 turbo and I have holley terminator x max. And idk what I should have my timing it. I have the option to set idle cruising and wot timing and not sure what to do there. Iv tried a couple things. Its runs fine but have been told it's not safe
wot timing should not exceed 26 degrees (to be safe), it should be less at the torque peak and below than at the power peak. If you are unfamiliar with these things-best to have it done by someone who understands it
@@richardholdener1727 ok I currently have my idle set at 18* cruise is set at 28 and my wot is currently at 12* to have someone tune it, it would need to be done remotely there isn't a tuner in my city
Think I can explain the turbo making a smaller gain I'm thinking the whole reason we adv timing is to raise cylinder pressure. What if the extra back pressure is already doing that. I know on two strokes the stinger diameter controls most of this and it's a balance between flow, small enough for harmonics to be hard, and timing. Idk might be off but I'd like to hear your opinion.
That's what Knock-Sensors were made for.
If You run into "Knock-Retard", You need to start implementing changes that
will reduce the tendency for the Engine to get into Detonation.
This is what makes the difference between a "Winner", and an "also-ran", Engine.
Sure it's what knock sensors were made for, but they don't always catch knock, sometimes they false knock, and engines don't always make more power with more timing. They're great, they're useful, but they're not foolproof.
@@curbo34
Just like everything else in Life,
the more You study it,
the more You find out just how much You don't know.
Knock-Sensors are a cheezy hack for a proper automatic
Cylinder-Pressure vs Crank-Angle Sensor/Computer combination.
And, if you really start digging,
You find out that the 200-year-old "Rube-Goldberg-Device" that we
call a Reciprocating-Piston-Engine,
is probably THE WORST, and most inefficient,
way to create way to create Power.
A Knock-Sensor-System simply creates an affordable way to get a "feel"
for the set of circumstances that will create a dangerous condition
in the Engine's operation.
The trick is to Tune your Engine with a Knock-Sensor using
plain-old 87-Octane "Regular" Fuel,
this will give You a feel for the Timing "Curve".
Actually there's a lot of factors that all affect each other,
that must always be compared against each other,
and controlled as accurately as possible.
There are a ton of Engine-Building-Tricks that will contribute to
reducing the tendency towards Detonation,
but these require a lot of Time, Money, and Experience,
but when combined together, they can be worth over ~100 Horsepower
more than a ""it's-exactly-the-same"" Engine-Build.
.
.
.
Do you see any difference with better balancers?
THEY DON'T BREAK (WE HAVE HAD STOCK ONES BREAK) AND WE USED THE ATI STUFF AS BOTTOM BLOWER PULLEYS
@@richardholdener1727 Not quite what I meant. I was trying to ask if you've seen a better balancer like an ati have any effect on other parts longevity. Ie rotating assembly
I always felt 15hp wasn't worth it if it meant more likely detonation. 500 hp 515 hp, both will be rowdy
Id like to see some nitrous timing turning for 250 plus shots
Have you ever tested cylinder pressure sensors? I would think you could use that to limit timing based upon pressure versus crank position…
those are very expensive
7:23 look at the torque, this engine is probably good with about 21 degrees, it doesn't increase torque after that change, then leave the timing alone and tune fuel mix.
How did you control the timing for the test? manually or electronically?
How does advancing the timing impact much lower RPMs??
IT NEEDS LESS TMING DOWN LOW
Some time can you show us how to read the plugs in between timing changes? So we can see the correlation between heat marks and the engine saying it wants more? For us non dyno access guys.
theres a ton of videos on youtube about reading plugs. no need for richard to do one as well
@@wesbuilds5293 there's a ton of videos on turbos etc on you tube too, what are you his mother
@@Hitman-ds1ei not many people are doing what richard does when it comes to turbo ls back to back testing. but spark plug reading knowlege has been assessable for ages. so why sit around and wait for richard to make a video about it? when a 5 second google/youtube search will have him all learn't up right now.
Run 4.8 with truck Norris and turbo it! Plz
This...
Hey Richard, are you running those with 18 degree flat everywhere in the timing map for the test?
NO
Do you pull some plugs to see what sort of heat they are seeing before going up in timing or just see what the power does?
we can check plugs too, but in these tests it was just power
Okay question. Say I’m jus looking to make (example) 700 hp with turbo. Would it be better to make 14 psi boost with 24 degrees of timing or 22 psi with 17 degrees and this is strictly examples……
generically speaking, it would be safer to do it with more boost and less timing-but the correct amount of both is best
It would be neat to see a SBE bigbang from timing. Just go up a degree per pull till something breaks. Then you can analyze what the gains or lack there of when you are getting to the limits.
You get to a point where the power gains flatten out and would start loosing power if you just kept advancing it. With normal tuning you basically advance the timing till the power gains level out, or you start picking up knock. Then back it down a little.
How much timing would be too much on an na gen 3 hemi?
we normally run 29
@@richardholdener1727 on pump 93? I'm on ethanol as well
Good video Richard, safety first with timing haha. Could the comparative power gains be in the lsa on the cams? There is 7 degrees I think I seen in them.
Curious do you find centrifugal timing curve to be fairly flat once it gets beyond the very low RPM range since it’s increasing rpm (needs more timing with RPM) and boost (maybe less timing due to heat or knock limitations…)?
Another great video Mr. Richard!!! Did you monitor the EGT with the different timing settings? Did you happen to notice any change in the glow from the exhaust headers as the timing changed?
I find it interesting that with an increase in boost that the engine responses to the increase in timing. To clarify, with boost the cylinder filling increases, the running 'CR'/cylinder pressure increases. That increased cylinder filling, during the compression stroke, should compress the mixture more and therefore require less timing for peak power-yes? Thank you.
You can do some reading on small planes, if i remember right they adjust timing so egt either drops to a certain point or its lowest, then retard timing until it raises a certain amount, someone correct me if im wrong. And different engines have different egts, but ive heard its all about relativity on a certain engine, ex higher than normal or low. You can detect a dead cylinder this way using a laser thermometer on exhaust manifold runners. And the way i think about cylinder pressure vs timing, as air density increases, it burns faster when ignited, this is the reason for less timing under boost and/or higher than stock compression. Its interesting too if im not wrong that at idle you actually have a lot of timing vs what you would think because the cylinder pressure is so low. Ideally we want the least timing possible to make peak cylinder pressure at the right time, thought it was 12-14deg atdc, i dont remember. If you can run less timing and hit that sweet spot atdc, it will make more power, because a different engine needing more timing is actually costing some power because the piston is coming up a longer distance after the burn starts. Some cylinder heads have a faster/more efficient burn than others, and thus require less timing than the others. To me spark timing, octane, and tuning is the most interesting aspect of engines. I think of octane as the ability to burn instead of "exploding". At a certain boost level, you can become octane limited, where if you tried to set timing for the sweet spot, the mixture would detonate because the peak cylinder pressure would exceed the current octane's limit, so you are forced to retard timing, where the increased cylinder volume will lower the peak pressure. Thats where higher octane comes in and why people love e85 for forced induction because it is very high octane, so they can run higher boost and with optimized timing. I find it interesting i havent seen more videos talking about timing tech, and has anyone ever wondered why max timing on many engines seems to be reached at like 3000rpm? Its strange to me, the only thing i can think of is at higher engine speeds maybe the air getting compressed at a very high rate makes it burn faster and faster? Innovate Motorsports has an interesting tech page and articles on timing and egt.
Actually that is AFR being adjusted.@@connor3288
Is that total timing or initial timing and we’re you running the timing locked out or having it reduce for boost?
THE TIMING VALUES GIVEN WERE PEAK TIMING UNDER BOOST-I HAVE A CURVE
Love the video. Is there a ballpark timing number for boost like there is for nitrous. In reference to the 2 degrees for every 50hp addition with nitrous. Does boost have a same number to start with per psi of boost? As a starting point.
Thanks for your time
I don't use timing per pound of boost
You can start with 1* per pound of boost
Any chance of you doing a 6.2 liter shoot out?
Ford Boss 6.2 vs GM LS3 6.2
don't have a boss 6.2L
Great video
My friend, which one made more power n/a, this or the mighty 4.6L 2v??
a 4.8L makes more than a 4.6l 2V
@@richardholdener1727 "How dare you??!!" (In the Greta voice..lol) Hoth similar mods or the Chevy beefed up like car programs do often?? Lol.. Anyway, thanks for answering my questions.. Hey would you build an engine for me if I where to buy one to put together or you don't put engines together for customers??
My question is, my N/A timing is 26 degrees. But going to be around 16 degrees @10lbs on 93 octane. Do I pull all the timing as soon as boost starts to build ? Or pull basically 1 degree for every lb of boost ?
MORE BOOST EQUALS MORE TIMING PULL
Personally I blame squirrels
If only e85 was available for me, would be nice to just fill and go.
Around here there are several E85 plants and miles of corn in season so we pay $2.75 as of yesterday... The winter blends of E85 tend to have more additives to boost detonation. E85 burns much cleaner in any case. You probably know that stuff too so I will say it added power and economy as the MPG went down just slightly on our application.
Richard, can you do a dyno comparo of this engine n the 2v Ford plz, Chevy vs Ford will be a good video, thanks..
there is a 4.6 v 4.8 video up
@@richardholdener1727 in your channel?? I'll look it up..
Hey Richard if your getting peak hp at roughly 25 degrees in boost on e85 what would you roughly put your timing at on methanol and 30 psi of boost?
I have never tested methanol
Can you do the same tests but using 95 octane gas ? 😀
Hey Richard this is Dave in Vegas having a big time trouble with a big block Chevy two-piece Main. Is it possible to get ahold of you to build my motor for me thanks bro Dave in Vegas.
I don't build motors
Add timing until it detonates then back off a couple degrees.
Got it! 😁
Lol
Retarding timing 2 degrees from the point detonation occurs has been highly recommended.
Magic smoke is the ultimate limit to anything. 90 psi boost with low timing =1900 hp reliable v6 engine that could.
👍
This is why I always chuckle at the dope fanboys on sloppy mechanics using a "baby soft" tune that has like half the timing it needs and a ton of boost pressure.
That's how to keep SBEs to live. I would MUCH rather use 25psi and 13* to make 800whp in a 4000lb car than 18psi and 24*. Even on E60, you are just asking for trouble using the kind of timing Richard is using.
I made 630whp on a 4.8L and a dinky cam with 14psi and 14*, system efficiency trumps all.
So be careful with timing
Do you use the holley to detect knock with stock sensors? Or do you have a separate knock detection module? I've been looking into buying the plex v2 knock module. Have you had an opportunity to use one for testing? I hear they're the bees knees.
I DON'T USE KNOCK SENSORS
I would say, this is great.. How about doing some timing optimization on pump gas, race gas and E85. most cars that are truely driven and used often ( especially in most regions that don;t have e85 or good e85 at the pump) E85 is great for a race car, but realistically, it kinda sux on the street due to maintenance and availability. Can't always be sure you will find it at the pump. Especially in the north east.
I think he does e85 because it’s a much safer fuel to tune for. When you do pump gas with forced induction, you are probably going to be knock limited. Which means that the dyno curve looks good, and it keeps making power as you add timing, but you will be getting knock and not know it. This is a different than an NA engine because you can see diminishing returns on the dyno graph as you add timing, which lets you know your are getting close to knock with out actually getting there. That just doesn’t happens with forced induction.
E85 isn’t available for me either.
@@OCofthe3 Its helpful to have an ECM that has knock sensor programming in it. (OBD1 or 2)
That way a person can monitor the knock counts and timing retard, and take corrective action.
Or the old fashioned way-- watch for specks of aluminum on the spark plugs.
@@2lotusman851 They often retard when you dont need them too, like when a certain vibration triggers them. My 4.6 dohc never had them, qould knock at low throttle with 87 octane, was find with 91
@@2lotusman851 yeah, those knock sensors are not that good. You need a more sophisticated system. There is a number out there that are really nice.
2nd
🏎Check Out what this did to the camera! ruclips.net/video/7XKgHirCnjg/видео.html
First
And what were the iat all goes together
if your S10 was faster, it could be first too lol. (Just kidding dude, I also
have a slow 4.8 S10 )
I don't watch TV anymore....lol
Getting real sick and tired of all you guys that have e85 available, and all these test running e85. The closest is 70 miles away. I have to run 91. 😒
just run less timing
@@richardholdener1727 I was being more jealous and playful. Not serious. Running a lq9 in a heavy escalade at 10 psi. Even with a2a Intercooler and meth, and running at 4500 ft, I can't seem to run more than 16 degrees.
@@richardholdener1727 dig, and learn a lot from your videos BTW. Thank you
Great video