There's always that moment when you get into a duty roulette. You know that moment. The loading screen hangs just slightly longer than it should. A feeling of dread sets in to the pit of your stomach. You could swear you've been here before. And then you see it across your screen. "The Thousand Maws of Toto-rak" The map starts. Everyone stands there for a brief moment except for the little beansprout that needed to come here for his MSQ. He runs on up ahead, unaware of the Hell that is to follow. The rest of you waiting. Hoping that one of you will quit first and eat the penalty, sparing the other two. But nobody leaves. And then you all just sigh in resignation. This is your fate now. And you know that somewhere, half way across the world in the land of the rising sun, Yoshi-P is laughing. He's laughing at you and your pain.
My experience with this has always been Aurum Vale, lol Especially because new tanks DON'T REALIZE THEY SHOULDN'T TRY RUNNING THROUGH THE FUCKING MIDDLE of the first room >< So many wipes...
Sadly, with my drk and ast, almost always droped in this dungeon... One time with my ast, the tank drk didnt used a single cooldown the entire fucking dungeon! T_T
I just want to spend a little extra time pointing out how crappy the "boss" encounters are in Copperbell Mines. 1) The first "boss" is just a room where you wait for mobs to spawn on opposite sides of the room. None of them survive more than a couple hits from even the weakest damaging attack, so you spend your time looking for whichever of them has the most HP left, hoping you can still do something by the time your global cooldown completes. I swear, 50% of this room is spent just waiting for something to happen. 2) The second "boss" is even worse, somehow finding a way to make the party stand around and do even LESS than before. Like, I can appreciate the theory behind the mechanic of the bomb that blows the slime into tinier bits, but having the party stand around doing nothing almost the entire time... it's ridiculous. 3) The final encounter is a complete joke, considering you can easily ignore the adds and just focus on killing the boss. If they tweaked it so that you could no longer ignore the adds, it might be a good training lesson for newbies to maintain awareness. But since that isn't the case, this fight -- and every boss fight in the dungeon -- is a throw-away junk encounter that bores the hell out of experienced players, and teaches newbies jack shit about anything.
yup...its the first challenging dungeon in the game...and remains the hardest dungeon for quite a few levels after.after a few runs you got the mechanics down and its a piece of cake...problem is...other people in the roulette might not!so for a healer,depending on what kind of party you get paired up with,it can still be quite challenging sometimes (especially the first oscar)
as a WoW veteran it feels like one of the only dungeons designed with actually tricky trash pulls. Ultimately not even that hard but it kinda demands things of the player that the rest of the game just doesn't really do.
The Thousand Nopes of Toto-nope. Hate getting this one in roulette. It just never ends due to the padding from sticky web, and the slime puddles in the last leg of the dungeon. Everybody hates this dungeon, and if there's somebody who legit likes Toto-nope, I hope to be struck by a falling ice cream truck and live.
It also doesn't help that this was before SE learned to put cutscenes when you LEAVE a dungeon, and not before loot rolls. This dungeon can take an extra 10 minutes if you have a sprout with you who's watching cutscenes~
I don't think it's that bad at all. A lot of people site how long it seems to drag on, but the pulls don't take very long, if you grab the photocell in the room near the beginning you don't have to track around the second boss, and shortly after the second boss trash just stops so you can sprint through all the green heavy stuff up to the end, makes that section feel super short to me. I've just never understood why it grates on people so much, beyond the same, "Omg, low level, where are all my abilities and skiiiiills? ;__;" that all lower level dungeons suffer from.
I just don't like the level cap there. You cannot use any job skills there because you are synced below lv30. What does a AST do in there when they cannot draw cards???
I actually like Amdapor Hard. The subdued music works really well for the whole dungeon's concept of slowly progressing further and further into some nightmarish hell realm, it's got some interesting mechanics, and the boss is fun to fight. Is it the most interesting dungeon around? No. But I felt like they nailed the atmosphere really well and it does have some positive point in it. I'm surprised Halatali didn't make it in this video at all. I don't know if it's just me, but I DREAD Halatali popping in my roulettes. Obnoxious bombs popping up everywhere, the chains give random results (I had a run once where every single chain gave a trio of thunder sprites, except the one that gave a bomb), and two of the three bosses have periods where you just outright cannot fight them at all and gotta stand around and wait for adds to kill instead. I also feel like the dungeon itself just kinda drags, even worse than Sastasha and Tam-Tara.
Copperbell is by far my least favorite of the pre level 50. You can just auto follow the tank and afk until the last boss and even then its not a hard fight.
I absolutely despise the Aurum Vale. I never get it when I’m tanking or DPSing but ALWAYS when I decide to heal and that mana just.. damn, I vote that dungeon to be deleted lmao. Or at LEAST lack down on the several amounts of Poison it inflicts on everyone.
All's fair when leveling roulette can force you to run them. Plus, pre-20 dungeons aren't required to be extremely bland, that's entirely SE's fault. Notice how Sastasha isn't up there, even on the honorable mentions.
I feel like the top spot should have gone to Tam Tara. As you said, the minibosses aren't even real bosses, just the same add group over and over again, the boss only has ONE mechanic and the music is just a short sample. Main problem though - it's just a generic underground hallway. Toto-Rak at least FEELS like it really focuses on it's poisonous, infected theme with all the green slime, nasty crawling things, webs everywhere and various status effects (and they aren't just for show either but actually play a role in the dungeon progression). Tam Tara on the other hand is SUPPOSEDLY a graveyard, but it doesn't FEEL like one whatsoever. It's just a nicely lit looong hallway. I counted more graves outside the entrance than in the actual dungeon..also, you mostly fight cute little ladybugs and mice and crustaceans with a very rare skeleton thrown in. The atmosphere is never, in any way, somewhat creepy and stuffy and PotD has, with it's random, limited structure, done more to fit the theme than the actual, dedicated dungeon (from lots of piled up coffins to really scary zombies of various designs to the dead hanging from the ceiling, etc.).
HaichaoTeaLover Tam tara doesn't win because if you have a good tank and healer you can sackpull the whole first and second rooms and lock the mobs out in the bosses lol this speeds up the whole place considerably. toto-rak, on the other hand, has no speed run option. it's just a stupid boring place that feels like you went straight to purgatory
I feel that your scoring method was seriously flawed. The only reason Aurum Vale was an honorable mention was because Orange gave it 10s to Map Design, Atmosphere and Bosses. He also gave Dzemael Darkhold an 8 on Map Design. A map where the Frogs can link together "invisibly" and harpoon you off the upper path in the area after the 2nd boss.
I hope you also noticed that I (Lukile) had to change most of my AV scores to 1s to balance it out, hence why my explanations doesn't line up with my scores. I think he was trying to get it on the top 10 list, that eel. (¬_¬) Our system is flawed, no doubt about it. We can't control who does what to their scores, so it's almost impossible to correct flaws like that.
Or he was trying to make things far less predictable. He did similar (if less extreme) things to Cutter's Cry and Dzemael Darkhold. Most wold lists would likely have some pattern of Cutter's Cry, Aurum Vale, Dzemael Darkhold and Toto-Rak. It really felt like you were phoning things in on Amdapor Keep(HM), Tam-tara and Copperbell.
Both Castrum Meridianum and the Praetorium should be on here, especially Castrum. Praetorium is at least cool-looking and has varied music. Cutter's Cry is perfectly fine, maybe not the most beautiful, but quite fun. Totally agree on Tam-Tara though, I hate that place. Running back a kilometre because you missed a photocell isn't my idea of fun.
I think that Aurum Vale's problem is less to do with the dungeon itself and more where it comes - it is absolutely frustrating being stuck at level 49, when your abilities are ALMOST complete but NOT QUITE. I can't say I can really disagree with you about Toto Rak, though. It's one that I liked my first time running through... Then I levelled up another job. And another.
Definitely agree with the number 1 slot, i refer to it as "Shit-o-rak". mostly for the sheer amount of poison and low HP when you get it out of a roulette. Add to that Tanks or DPS who don't remember the exploding eggs makes it such a nightmare when i have to heal it.
Even in 2017, this list would be about the least controversial you could possibly put together. Other than that, just about every complaint boils down to "it doesn't let you race through it". Aside from a couple admittedly underwhelming boss fights (e.g. Slimes in Copperbell), I wouldn't say anything you listed makes them "bad". Some of the things would make them *good* dungeons - unless of course you're talking about FFXIV players. Example: There's nothing wrong with Aurum Vale. It's a proper dungeon. Like most dungeons from 1.0 and even into early Heavensward, it looks and feels and is designed as a physical location you can imagine existing in the world. It's not the random, outlandish gauntlet of linear corridors and perfectly subdivided, geometric platforms XIV calls dungeons now. AV is winding, it's dangerous, it requires planning, patience, positioning and situational awareness. Its bosses have varied mechanics that don't involve some scripted, unchanging DDR-like game of Simon Says. AV's fights take place in locations that actually *make sense* in the setting. The only "problem" with AV is the impatience of people who want to go-go-go and mass pull everything, and AV makes that difficult. "We can't face-roll and rush through it. Boo hoo". At least older dungeons in FFXIV had variety. Bosses had different mechanics (albeit not all great). It wasn't the same rehashed formula of: pointless trash corridor > arbitrary, perfectly geometric boss platform > pointless trash corridor > arbitrary, perfectly geometric boss platform > pointless trash corridor > arbitrary, perfectly geometric boss platform > yay you win. I wouldn't even call them dungeons in XIV anymore. They're barely more than a boss rush. The trash mob pulls could just as well be removed. They serve no purpose. SE has gotten extremely lazy with their dungeon design (as with other elements of XIV), and its fans act like it's the most amazing thing ever.
Fuck Toto-rak. It doesn't matter if I queue into Leveling as a post-50 class with other post-50 people, there is a 75% chance we'll get Toto-rak anyways, and if we don't get Toto-rak, we get Copperbell. It's actually my personal hell.
Maybe i'm the only one but the combat system repetitiveness + ALL 4 player dungeon designs make every dungeon in this game outside of 8 player raids and 24 man really boring as hell after the 2nd time you clear it. Theres no worst dungeon for me, they are all equal in that aspect
I'd honestly disagree with the music of TotoRak, as I found it quite nice. Everything else about it, oh god, fuck it all to hell. One thing that you didn't mention that I think makes it even worse is the aggressively low level sync which makes it even slower.
As someone that hasn't done Roulettes almost at all yet, Aurum is instant number 1. It's based on first playthroughs only, yes, but I wanted nothing to do with it, even with a good party. So to hear all the early game dungeons besides it I'm like "I have no idea what you're talking about, some boring easy low level dungeons are the worst?" I'd rather coast through a boring one than scream at my game.
AV is amazing, it's layout and the sheer fact that it's still the hardest dungeon to ever be implemented into the game makes it my favorite dungeon I've ever done. And honestly, I think SE should of ignored the whiners and kept the rest of the dungeons in 2.0 difficult at max level.
I very much agree on Toto-Rak. If I made a list, I would probably put Sastasha in there too somewhere. It's fine the first five times when you're new to the game and dungeons, but when you do your leveling roulette and it pops, it's just not a fun run. :P
I wish they would re-look all of those boring dungeons and do as much re-design as they can. At least making them shorter rather than a boring plain dungeons.
Any list that doesn't have the Praetorium at #1 is just wrong. FUCK THAT DUNGEON AND THE PEOPLE WHO RUN IT! There is no worse way to end the 2.0 story than to be rushed out of every cutscene early, locked out of half the boss fights, and having no clue what is going on. I'm glad they never brought 8 person dungeons back because they were AWFUL
Weren't Cutter's Cry, the Darkhold, the Aurum Vale, and the Thousand Maws also present in 1.0? Proof that some things still haunt Eorzea even after the Calamity, I guess.
I do agree with little less than half your list. I feel the worse should of been: 1) Aurum Vale - On my server, people would rather get number 2 on my list, than this thing 2) Thousand Maws of Toto-rak - It earned the name thousand yawns of toto-rak. It's borning and sleep inducing, but not hard 3) Cutter's Cry - This one is the third most dreaded dungeon on my server. People hate it. 4) Dzmael Darkhold - A dungeon that also gets a lot of hate. But not nearly as much as the top 3 on my server. 5) Amdapor Keep (Hard) - all the reasons you stated, are accurate.
With the exception of Toto-Rak -- it AND Sastasha NM were boring -- why do I find myself liking those ones instead of hating them? I hated: Pharos Sirius NM (FUCK YOU, SYMOND) Antitower (AND YOU TOO, ZIGGY) The Vault (why, trash?! Y U DO SO MUCH DAMAGE?! I can't stance dance at all in this one!) Neverreap (occasionally, depended on the rest of the group's ability to avoid shit on last boss) Sohr Khai (The number of times that I feel like I've caused wipes on Hraesvelgr JUST because I can't keep the party alive...Yeah, fuck playing FFXIV anymore...) Also -- I don't think I'm ever coming back until I see a min ilevel synced group beat Final Steps of Faith. Why? Because my highest level character, a healer AT 205 ilvl, can't even clear that trial. Fuck this game.
Dzemael Darkhold...All i'm going to say this place every time i hear the name is two words, " FUCK YOU!!!" Agonizing shiity place back during 2.0 relic grind for that Relic item drop at the end of the run. I hold a special hate for that place. There's NO WAY to speed run that place fast enough since, if I remember correctly, is gear locked. All I know it suucked when doing relic item drop grind.
Personally I have Cutter's Cry as my #2, with the primary reason being that every single time that I get it, people want to kill EVERY MOB. This makes sense in the first few rooms where you have to in order to proceed, but afterwards, it's a chore. Most classes don't have good AoE capability yet, so it's just tons of small pulls. To make it worse, many patches ago, SE buffed the EXP that dungeon bosses gave, while nerfing the exp that regular dungeon mobs gave, with Cutter's Cry being the dungeon that this change starts with and going on up to Aurum Vale. They did this because they wanted to put a stop to people farming the first several rooms of mobs in Dzemael, but also to try and stop people from leaving these dungeons that took so long because everyone wanted to kill all the mobs for exp, thus making it better exp per minute to only kill what you have to. Nothing tells you this in the game though, and most people just see exp as exp and don't believe it'd be better to just finish the dungeon and re-queue. Seriously people, just finish the dungeons. If you need exp that badly, go into Palace of the Dead, don't make everyone have to suffer.
I'm glad Cutter's Cry and Stone Vigil did not make the list, I actually love both. And even though I don't love Aurum Vale, I don't hate it and don't get why everyone seems to. For me, #1 worst is Dzamael Darkhold and the next four prob would go to the first four dungeons. Most of those early game dungeons get over played, they are all dark, none have good music, and due to lvl syncing, even if you've played this game for 2000 hours, you still have to play with only 1-3 skills which is just really boring. I haven't done a sub lvl 50 roulette since my first job got to level 50
Personally would've replaced Amdapoor Keep (Hard) with Cutters Cry. Both have good final bosses, but the layout and gating of Cutters Cry easily makes it the inferior dungeon. It's first two bosses are also massively inferior design-wise when you consider this dungeon is supposed to come _after_ Sunken Temple of Qarn.
5) Satasha NM - This dungeon is WAY too long for an intro dungeon. It does a good job at introducing players to several different mechanics for bosses, such as avoid AoEs, grabbing extra adds or just stopping adds from spawning all together, but dear god it drags on with all the mobs, locked doors and just overall length of the dungeon itself and god forbid someone wants to clear all the side rooms too for extra XP/loot. 4) Sunken Temple of Quam (sp?) NM - Want to talk about gates? Killing those statue heads on top of the switches is just awful, especially since other mobs tend to push them off right before you kill them, making the fights drag on. The bosses, while having interesting mechanics (Doom is the bane of my existance) it also makes them incredibly annoying. The 2nd boss in particular is extremely frustrating since he drops aggro and goes rampant making him just a painful experience overall. 3) Thousand Maws of Toto-rak - Video explained it pretty much. The heavy, the poison sacks, the gates. Kill it with fire. 2) Dzemael Darkhold - Frogs. THOSE F***ING FROGS. That is all. 1) Aurum Vale - Poison floor EVERYWHERE. The 1st room alone is annoying because of all the adds, accidental pulls etc but that poison floor just makes all that 10x worse. Having to constantly avoid standing in poison, while positioning everything in just the right way that it doesn't cause overpulling or standing in poison is a chore. 1st and last boss are identical for 90% of their fights and Coincounter with his non-telegraphed insta-kill has lead to more than 1 headache there
Pre-nerf Sunken Temple of Qarn gotta be my top. If for nothing more the sudden and utterly unforgiving difficulty curve that resembled more a sheer cliff face for new players. Practically no challenge from 7 dungeons prior to suddenly one shot mechanics out the yin-yang. Ironically I was kinder excited that dungeons were gonna get more difficult from that point on but nope, nothing consistently taxing till Ampdapor Keep after that and even then that was more to do with non dark light gear.
I don't know whether I agree completely or not, but I do feel like the thousand maws is one of the few dungeons in the game that feels like well a "dungeon" in terms of final fantasy rpgs. It's linear, but has branching paths. The mobs feel paced at a point that they feel like random dungeons and the chests are in odd locations. I legitimately feel like the only thing that drags this dungeon down is the design of how the dungeon looks and it's boss variety. You counter with the sticky floor and the egg bombs? I counter with the fact that as a player of final fantasy that this is one of the easiest traps in any ff dungeon ever. Remember this game was originally suppose to feel like an final fantasy game turned mmo, and I feel ashamed that all dungeons now a days have devolved to pretty colors, decent bosses, and unmemorable trash mobs with no exciting dungeon layouts to curve players.
It isn't bad, it is mostly the fact you're synced to 49.... Your last skill (usually a very good one) is JUST out of reach. That and since your gear is also synced, the mobs hit pretty damn hard for a leveling dungeon.
I have good memories of the times my FC mates had to clear av and kept forgetting to pick the GC quest, so we had to go there 27485942718 times for everyone. it was also a nice place to level up the last bit to 50, we'd make a party and spam the first room lmao
James Stine the heavy thing and the bombs are ( not fun) original, the map too, the web door also. This dungeon have some unique stuff. Yes the mobs are basic and the boss are complete joke, but when I saw in the vid they the design is depresing it make me laugh ! It's a prison ! But you are right, this is just about taste and this kind of top is subjective !
Music makes difference for sure. I had copperbell today as leveling and yesterday too. It is so boring, and takes forever it feels, I agree. x_x ALSO YES, I HATE THOUSAND MAWS OF TOTO-RAK Q_Q
tam tara is the second dungeon you go into, it has to be a bit light. copperbell is the 3rd dungeon you do and your complaint about music may be valid but it is also 5 yr old content. Arum Vale is a pain, it is also the first dungeon that has monsters with HUGE aggro range, but i agree it's one that prepares ppl for the lvl 50 and beyond dungeons. what i question is why are there so many beginner dungeons on the list, i mean people have to learn somehow.
I don't actually hate Amdapor Keep Hard, but all the other ones in this list, I just immediately quit as soon as I get em, I'd rather take 30 minutes in the penalty box then waste time on those shits.
Amdapor hard, gotta agree with it's boring. DD... yeah this place sucks. Fuck the second part. Tam Tara... at least you can speedrun? It's a tutorial done wrong. Copperbell. Screw that slime. Stand still and stare: the boss. Aurum Vale is a great dungeon. It's a good challenge and that first room teaches you to pay God damn attention. Stone: STOP GAME ... so damn long. Cutters: I have no issues with this place. Totorak... the 20 minute dungeon that feels like 40
I don't mind copperbell and Tam-tara to be honest. Tam-tara is usually my go-to dongeon lvl 1-50 for my WT to clear. Amdapapor Keep hard is not that bad either, neither is Stone Vigil. My personnal top 5 would probably go like this: 5- Cutter's cry 4- Lost City of Amdapor (the music puts me to sleep in like 2 sec) 3-Dzemael Darkhold 2- Aurum Vale 1- Thousand Maws of Torokak (because it's just the worst)
I really don't get how some of these got on the list because of their "lack of monster variety", when they have like 10 different types of monsters while some of the dungeons in your best-dungeons-list had way less (looking at you, Hullbreaker Isle..).
Even if monster variety is brought up as a negative, doesn't mean it's because it ranked so low. There are lots of other elements pulling a dungeon down the list, and a lack of monster variety is one of them. Hullbreaker Isle got a massive loss of points due to its lacking monster variety (basically just bugs and monkeys), but it had other elements that pulled it up!
The Thousand Yawns of Total-Naps... hey kids, you know what that Door to Abacination or whatever means? I'd rather be subject to that than run this dungeon one more friggin time.
I actually like stone vigil. It's challenging at times, but in a fun way, unlike aurum vale and dzemael darkhold. I agree with this list except #5, I'd either have that go to Aurum Vale or Halatali.
There is no doubt that Toto-rak is the worst dungeon, but I think the reasons are probably self-inflicted, as it's also a recycled v1.0 dungeon. Is it truely the "worst" dungeon though? The two separate paths at the beginning was interesting, and something you don't appreciate until you try it solo and realize "gee how come I've never been here... oh wait because everyone used the same guide to make it the shortest". You can actually pick up the 4 progress widgets down one of the paths without having to go back into one of the other paths, as one of those magitek cells is just on a wall that's easy to miss. Yes, one path is the "fight everything" path. I'd have to say that if Square-Enix were to re-polish some of these dungeons that were cleaved off their V1.0 versions, I'd want them to put back the original length of the dungeons (with multiple boss rooms,) but change how they're gated so that the progress widgets were not dropped from monsters, and then place shortcut teleports after the optional bosses are defeated back to last fork in the road. Could you imagine what a Toto-rak (hard) would be? Maybe recycle that "Knights Round" dungeon that never made it into 1.0.
I think this is generally a great list. I really like AK Hard. But the others I agree with. AV should be on the list, despite it actually having a refreshing change of more challenging mechanics for new players. It's always that dungeon that people just leave as soon as they que in and realize they got in for roulette. People would rather take the penalty than have to go through it. That speaks volumes about the dungeon in itself. But it got an honorable mention, so good enough. Also, my FC's name for Toko-Rak: Thousand Yawns of Toto-Rak.
Good list, but i have to go with Aurum Vale. Its not bad for map design, the music is pretty cool. But its a nightmare to run and tank/heal. The first room requires knowledge of how to tank and restraining yourself due to the healers strength. It requires you to actually think and for people to not tunnel vision. Healers that just heal bot make the run long as hell, not to mention that dps that still dont know about rotations and cooldowns. One wrong pull or messing up a mechanic, and it just becomes a field of death real quick, turning a 20-25 min run into 45 min.
You say that like it's a bad thing! This is actually what MORE dungeons should have, instead of being just boring faceroll dungeons that don't bring anything new to the table. Dungeons need to be tougher and require more critical thinking and preparation besides just mindless "pull all enemies to boss, aoe them down (or lock them out), kill boss, rinse and repeat". That's how free to play/pay to win gamers play games. When you have players doing that, you get players who complain that *endgame raids* are too hard ( *LIKE THEY DID WITH GORDIAS* ), and I'm like "Uh yeah, *that's the fucking point!* " When dungeons are too easy, you attract more people with that lazy mentality. Overall dungeon difficulty needs to increase. If it doesn't, we're already seeing massive hordes of bad, scrub players thinking they can just faceroll everything like they do in dungeons, making the overall experience for everyone worse.
OK, to be fair, Tam-Tara was the 1st dungeon ever in the game. During alpha it was the ONLY dungeon you could run when we were limited to the Black Shroud area. They did make changes by release and streamlined it more. It would have probably been higher on the list if they kept the old version.
Stone Vigil isnt really in the same league as the others here honestly. Like its nothing special or anything, but its also not outstandingly bad - honestly by ARR dungeon standards (which, lets be honest, arent super high) its one of the better ones. You can actually get decent pulls going and get through it reasonably fast, and the cannon mechanic on the first boss is kinda neat. Its only really frustrating if you're with your squadron and playing tank or healer, in which case they obviously wont actually do the mechanics so you need to babysit them into it. Thats more of an issue of the squadron AI being dumber than a sack of rocks than it is a dungeon thing though.
Copperbell is #1 for me. It's boring, feels longer than it should, is not particularly interesting visually, and the bosses... Well, let's see... First boss is a ridiculously easy enemy gauntlet in which enemies are killed so fast you end yourself waiting for the next wave to arrive. You could solo this thing. Second boss is a puzzle that has half of the party going AFK. Final boss has the easiest to ignore mechanic in the whole game. Even the Sastasha final boss usually manages to spawn an add or two if you ignore it's mechanics. Not this guy, in practice he's just a big guy with higher HP. Sastasha is the introductory dungeon, Tam-Tara is over quickly, and Toto-Rak also feels shorter, looks cooler and has a more interesting final boss. Copperbell is just a drag.
Ok... First off when scoring from 1-10 you shouldn't be giving Zeros. If those zero's were 1s then TotoRak may not have been worst. I don't disagree with it being #1 on the worst list. Just saying for knitpicking's sake. I kept waiting for my least favorite to be on the list. Sastasha and Sastasha Hard. While Pirates are always "fun" it gets real tedious real fast. My worst 5 5: Aurumn Vale 4: Cutter's Cry 3: Sastasha (Hard) 2: Dzemael Darkhold 1: Toto Rak It would be interesting to see a comparison of what were the dungeons available in the Alpha/Beta of ARR and their eventual release versions. Tam Tara's dungeon was extremely different during testing. So much so that they removed an entire boss and made him a guildhest.
I was gonna argue that Amdapor Keep (Hard) is actually good until you mentioned that the last room and final boss are both good point That I can agree with, same with the beginning being lackluster
Amdapor keep was the bane of my life when it was in the expert roulette. Seemed to be the one I got like 95% of the time and just feels a good 20% longer/slower than almost every other dungeon.
Meh, the only dungeon that's mentioned in this video that makes me want to say "sorry, but I'd rather spend the next half hour grinding instead of doing this" is Aurum Vale. The other dungeons are at least guaranteed rewards - unless you're looking for specific gear drops for glamouring, you will be getting what you came for eventually, be it tomestones, experience, or MSQ progression, because they're sufficiently easy any given roulette group will make it through. The dungeons that make me go "daaaamn, not this place!" are the aforementioned Aurum Vale; Pharos Sirius (the normal version), The Vault, and that one where you fight Nidhogg the first time, due to the difficulty of the encounters and way too many wipes while I was doing them for quests; and Bowl of Embers (Normal), because it's in the leveling roulette and gives next to no XP due to being a Trial, so if you're trying to use the leveling roulette to actually level an off class, you just lost a big chunk of potential XP for the day.
how the hell did you score them? All of your numbered dungeons are mildly annoying at best, but your Runners Up ones are far far worse. Aurum Vale is prepping for end game? WTF? It really seems like the lack of unique music is why you put the ones you did where they are. But in reality, the ones that are numbered are rarely run, even when leveling. Sure 1kMaw, Copperbell, et all are boring, but they're intro dungeons and even if you're spamming the leveling roulette you'll rarely end up in the same one over and over (unless that's all you have), but even then, with the XP boosts since ARR, you'll be out of that 15-25 range soon enough with only a few runs. Cutter's Cry can have almost all of its mechanics ignored. And all the starter ones can be speed run. Now, Brayflox sucks, Aurum Vale STDs, Wanderer's Palace, and ugh Stone Vigil...god fuck. There's no quick way through, there's no bypassing mechanics, and YOU WILL RUN THEM OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. OH. And then lets NOT FORGET the entire storyline you waded through to UNLOCK Brayflox Sucx. The entire, fucking, poorly paced, fetch quest, bitch quest that was Company of Heros! Wooo, so you spend dozens of bitch quests proving yourself to the previous incarnation of the last party of GROUPIES, people, who for all accounts are and were pathetic, only rising to fame because the last Warrior of Light led them into battle. Somehow. Culminating with the bitch quest of all bitch quests: Rescuing Brayflox's latest batch of stinky Goblin Cheese from the maniacal clutches of ... a dragon that just wants to be left alone to sleep. All before they'd let you fight....Titan. Just Titan. Regular old Titan. A primal that also...just wants to be left alone and his children not murdered. OH BOY! WHAT FUN! Gee gollicers willy! The difficulty ramp into Brayflox Sucx and Aurum Vale led to many wipes, all of them based on the two worst things to happen to not end game raiding. Persistent environmental hazards and stupid repetitive boss mechanics. Don't stand in the derp. Don't stand near a gas fountain. Eat fruit at 2 and 3 stacks. Kill the morbile seeds. Don't stack up on the boss. Avoid the aoe room cleave. Don't stand in the poison. Drag the dragon out of the poison. PULL THE FUCKING DRAGON OUT OF THE POISON, ITS HEALING! FUCK IT, PULLING AGGRO OFF TANK TO DRAG DRAGON TO EDGE OF THE ROOM. Brayflox is the first dungeon where tanks have to do something besides tank and spank in turret mode. And no one transitions gracefully, and nothing leading up to it involves that level of complication (ie stop watching netflix and tank).
While agree mostly I absolutely hate AV with a passion mainly for its first room and how much I had to grind it just to get from 47-50. However I will add there is nothing more boring than how the dungeons have become so mind numbingly boring due to the trash > boss > trash > boss makeup of each and every dungeon. I like the little things that make dungeons different like which colour coral to touch in sastasha and running away from the stalking tonberrys in the wandering palace. I really hate that mmos are now just about mindless dungeon running. Yoshi-P and his team better up their dungeon game for Stormblood.
Just because they are low level doesn't excuse them for being bad. Even when I joined the game, and everything was new and exciting, I hated Copperbell Mines, Thousand Maws, Tam Tara, all because they are bland and boring. Thousand maws literally has things that slow you down, those are the extent of the mechanics in the dungeon, just to drag the already mind numbing task longer. The higher level dungeons are far more interesting and have more mechanics. Its not against low level dungeons in general, its just that some of them there are shit.
The amount of time that the game takes to reach its peak is a large and commonly cited flaw of ARR. Did you buy FFXIV because you watched some level 60+ gameplay and thought that it looked really fun? It's only going to take you 100+ hours to get there!
The number of times I've made people wait by actually sleeping midway within the dungeon while running into walls... I'm sorry to those people... I've even dreaded leveling up different class because I never wanted this for roulette. T.T
4:37 me neither ಠ_ಠ aren't most of FF14 dungeons kinda boring honestly? AV tho i agree with what is said it is a good dungeon just a total pain to tank it
Actually, I like most of these. Like, sure they have some annoyances in them, but that's like part of the game. I liked Aurum Vale too, and I didn't even wipe once on my first try.
AV not in the top 5 is - questionable. And it's because someone trolled the scoring to make it that way. Bearded Spock admires your logic bomb! Overall, it shows the original dungeons are a bit dull, which is not a controversial opinion. And, to their credit, the developers upped their game and produced better dungeons as the game has matured. With some exceptions that have their own set of opinions ;)
cbltex Honestly I feel like it's only not on the list cause it looks nice. I only expected gameplay reasons for these being the worst, so when I see "it gets a pass cause it look cool" makes it feel like cheating.
I actually like Stone Vigil, but I usually tank it and I do alot of chain pulling which makes it go by faster. That and I always had fun before it got nerfed on the last little optional room by stressing the healer out. Its been nerfed since then in the sense that the ice sprites now have smaller range and dont require ranged pull and I'm pretty sure there are less enemies in that room now lol. As for on the honerable mentions, though I was still never a fan of Cutters Cry, I did enjoy the first boss when a party member had to kite, usually healers, but since the nerf it has become just as boring as the rest of the dungeon, aside from the chimera.
I'm late to the party. But I'm a new player. When I saw this I immediately thought: I bet number 1 is AVale or "the goddamn spider web one" I was right. Goddamn spider webs.
Interesting I'm honestly surprised to see Tam-Tara and Copperbell Mines on this but like you said it's all subjective. Tam-Tara Deepcroft and Copperbell are 2 of my personal favorite dungeons.
Looking on this list now I must say those dungeons are good because they are unique in their own way. New dungeons are really boring. They fell like they were made only to blast through them and thats all.
Yes I knew toto-rak would win the top 5 lol that dungeon is just pain and sadness. Usually I'm very willing to help people with all dungeons in the game but if they say toto-rak I just go like "I'm sorry, that one is the only I don't help with" lol I think it wouldn't be so bad if it was a side dungeon but it's in the middle of storyline. ugh. About the Aurum Vale, you probably confused yourself there. it's not the first and second bosses that are copy paste, it's first and third. the second boss is the coincounter, which actually introduced the first AoEs without telegraph that you have to look at the casting bar and how the boss is positioned to avoid. Oh how many times I wiped in that one... So many that I started going there only as healer just to raise people and try to guarantee the clear lol
There's always that moment when you get into a duty roulette.
You know that moment. The loading screen hangs just slightly longer than it should.
A feeling of dread sets in to the pit of your stomach.
You could swear you've been here before.
And then you see it across your screen.
"The Thousand Maws of Toto-rak"
The map starts. Everyone stands there for a brief moment except for the little beansprout that needed to come here for his MSQ. He runs on up ahead, unaware of the Hell that is to follow.
The rest of you waiting. Hoping that one of you will quit first and eat the penalty, sparing the other two.
But nobody leaves.
And then you all just sigh in resignation. This is your fate now. And you know that somewhere, half way across the world in the land of the rising sun, Yoshi-P is laughing. He's laughing at you and your pain.
I never wait
XP is XP, and if it's Toto-Rak that I need to clear, might as well get this over with
At least I don't need to think
My experience with this has always been Aurum Vale, lol
Especially because new tanks DON'T REALIZE THEY SHOULDN'T TRY RUNNING THROUGH THE FUCKING MIDDLE of the first room ><
So many wipes...
Duty Finder: I heard you were qued up for leveling. How about some Toto-rak? Bitches love Toto-rak.
Sadly, with my drk and ast, almost always droped in this dungeon...
One time with my ast, the tank drk didnt used a single cooldown the entire fucking dungeon!
T_T
For me it's Sastasha as I'm trying to cap my ACN......
I just want to spend a little extra time pointing out how crappy the "boss" encounters are in Copperbell Mines.
1) The first "boss" is just a room where you wait for mobs to spawn on opposite sides of the room. None of them survive more than a couple hits from even the weakest damaging attack, so you spend your time looking for whichever of them has the most HP left, hoping you can still do something by the time your global cooldown completes. I swear, 50% of this room is spent just waiting for something to happen.
2) The second "boss" is even worse, somehow finding a way to make the party stand around and do even LESS than before. Like, I can appreciate the theory behind the mechanic of the bomb that blows the slime into tinier bits, but having the party stand around doing nothing almost the entire time... it's ridiculous.
3) The final encounter is a complete joke, considering you can easily ignore the adds and just focus on killing the boss. If they tweaked it so that you could no longer ignore the adds, it might be a good training lesson for newbies to maintain awareness. But since that isn't the case, this fight -- and every boss fight in the dungeon -- is a throw-away junk encounter that bores the hell out of experienced players, and teaches newbies jack shit about anything.
The thousand snores of toto-nap
I'm one of the few people who actually likes the Aurum Vale. It's the first real competency check for all three roles that the game has to offer.
I think Aurum Vale just gets an unfair rep because of bad players rather than being poorly designed.
I'm with you, it was the first time in the game I was finally engaged as a healer
yup...its the first challenging dungeon in the game...and remains the hardest dungeon for quite a few levels after.after a few runs you got the mechanics down and its a piece of cake...problem is...other people in the roulette might not!so for a healer,depending on what kind of party you get paired up with,it can still be quite challenging sometimes (especially the first oscar)
as a WoW veteran it feels like one of the only dungeons designed with actually tricky trash pulls. Ultimately not even that hard but it kinda demands things of the player that the rest of the game just doesn't really do.
It's great, except for the part where it's completely optional and I didn't even do it until i was lv 54 or something
The Thousand Nopes of Toto-nope. Hate getting this one in roulette. It just never ends due to the padding from sticky web, and the slime puddles in the last leg of the dungeon. Everybody hates this dungeon, and if there's somebody who legit likes Toto-nope, I hope to be struck by a falling ice cream truck and live.
ShelltoonTV1 Scholar mains love it, "Eos take the wheel!"
Benjamin Krahling except for no condition removal! even selenes skill is level locked.
It also doesn't help that this was before SE learned to put cutscenes when you LEAVE a dungeon, and not before loot rolls. This dungeon can take an extra 10 minutes if you have a sprout with you who's watching cutscenes~
I don't think it's that bad at all. A lot of people site how long it seems to drag on, but the pulls don't take very long, if you grab the photocell in the room near the beginning you don't have to track around the second boss, and shortly after the second boss trash just stops so you can sprint through all the green heavy stuff up to the end, makes that section feel super short to me.
I've just never understood why it grates on people so much, beyond the same, "Omg, low level, where are all my abilities and skiiiiills? ;__;" that all lower level dungeons suffer from.
I just don't like the level cap there. You cannot use any job skills there because you are synced below lv30. What does a AST do in there when they cannot draw cards???
I actually like Amdapor Hard. The subdued music works really well for the whole dungeon's concept of slowly progressing further and further into some nightmarish hell realm, it's got some interesting mechanics, and the boss is fun to fight. Is it the most interesting dungeon around? No. But I felt like they nailed the atmosphere really well and it does have some positive point in it.
I'm surprised Halatali didn't make it in this video at all. I don't know if it's just me, but I DREAD Halatali popping in my roulettes. Obnoxious bombs popping up everywhere, the chains give random results (I had a run once where every single chain gave a trio of thunder sprites, except the one that gave a bomb), and two of the three bosses have periods where you just outright cannot fight them at all and gotta stand around and wait for adds to kill instead. I also feel like the dungeon itself just kinda drags, even worse than Sastasha and Tam-Tara.
Copperbell is by far my least favorite of the pre level 50. You can just auto follow the tank and afk until the last boss and even then its not a hard fight.
Sorry about your poison stacks. I'm a Scholar synced below 40.
Thomas Casassa doesnt one of the scholar fairies now have an esuna like aoe on cooldown?
Selene. It's a two minute cool down.
I absolutely despise the Aurum Vale. I never get it when I’m tanking or DPSing but ALWAYS when I decide to heal and that mana just.. damn, I vote that dungeon to be deleted lmao. Or at LEAST lack down on the several amounts of Poison it inflicts on everyone.
I have a confession to make... I kinda like Toto-rak. I had no idea it was so hated.
On the plus side, now I can cast Plenary Indulgence.
also, i dont think any dungeons lvl 20below should be on the list of worst. I dont think its any fair. feels a lil bit biased.
All's fair when leveling roulette can force you to run them. Plus, pre-20 dungeons aren't required to be extremely bland, that's entirely SE's fault. Notice how Sastasha isn't up there, even on the honorable mentions.
Sastasha Is my least favorite personally.
I feel like the top spot should have gone to Tam Tara. As you said, the minibosses aren't even real bosses, just the same add group over and over again, the boss only has ONE mechanic and the music is just a short sample. Main problem though - it's just a generic underground hallway. Toto-Rak at least FEELS like it really focuses on it's poisonous, infected theme with all the green slime, nasty crawling things, webs everywhere and various status effects (and they aren't just for show either but actually play a role in the dungeon progression). Tam Tara on the other hand is SUPPOSEDLY a graveyard, but it doesn't FEEL like one whatsoever. It's just a nicely lit looong hallway. I counted more graves outside the entrance than in the actual dungeon..also, you mostly fight cute little ladybugs and mice and crustaceans with a very rare skeleton thrown in. The atmosphere is never, in any way, somewhat creepy and stuffy and PotD has, with it's random, limited structure, done more to fit the theme than the actual, dedicated dungeon (from lots of piled up coffins to really scary zombies of various designs to the dead hanging from the ceiling, etc.).
HaichaoTeaLover Tam tara doesn't win because if you have a good tank and healer you can sackpull the whole first and second rooms and lock the mobs out in the bosses lol this speeds up the whole place considerably. toto-rak, on the other hand, has no speed run option. it's just a stupid boring place that feels like you went straight to purgatory
I feel that your scoring method was seriously flawed.
The only reason Aurum Vale was an honorable mention was because Orange gave it 10s to Map Design, Atmosphere and Bosses.
He also gave Dzemael Darkhold an 8 on Map Design. A map where the Frogs can link together "invisibly" and harpoon you off the upper path in the area after the 2nd boss.
I hope you also noticed that I (Lukile) had to change most of my AV scores to 1s to balance it out, hence why my explanations doesn't line up with my scores. I think he was trying to get it on the top 10 list, that eel. (¬_¬) Our system is flawed, no doubt about it. We can't control who does what to their scores, so it's almost impossible to correct flaws like that.
Why have scores at all? It'd be easier to go "Good/Eh/Bad"
Or he was trying to make things far less predictable. He did similar (if less extreme) things to Cutter's Cry and Dzemael Darkhold. Most wold lists would likely have some pattern of Cutter's Cry, Aurum Vale, Dzemael Darkhold and Toto-Rak.
It really felt like you were phoning things in on Amdapor Keep(HM), Tam-tara and Copperbell.
fucking hate toto-rak. its so annoying and boring but for some reason i get it 4 out if 7 times doing roulette even with a full party at lv60...
Both Castrum Meridianum and the Praetorium should be on here, especially Castrum. Praetorium is at least cool-looking and has varied music. Cutter's Cry is perfectly fine, maybe not the most beautiful, but quite fun.
Totally agree on Tam-Tara though, I hate that place. Running back a kilometre because you missed a photocell isn't my idea of fun.
I've noticed that you hated Toto-Rak so badly, you mispronounced for Tam-Tara Deepcroft. I feel for you.
@@OmegaEnvych Indeed you are right, I keep mixing those names up. Toto-Rak is the bad one!
I think that Aurum Vale's problem is less to do with the dungeon itself and more where it comes - it is absolutely frustrating being stuck at level 49, when your abilities are ALMOST complete but NOT QUITE.
I can't say I can really disagree with you about Toto Rak, though. It's one that I liked my first time running through... Then I levelled up another job. And another.
I like the toto rak dungeon. It looks quite pretty as far as underground cave systems go.
Definitely agree with the number 1 slot, i refer to it as "Shit-o-rak". mostly for the sheer amount of poison and low HP when you get it out of a roulette. Add to that Tanks or DPS who don't remember the exploding eggs makes it such a nightmare when i have to heal it.
Even in 2017, this list would be about the least controversial you could possibly put together.
Other than that, just about every complaint boils down to "it doesn't let you race through it". Aside from a couple admittedly underwhelming boss fights (e.g. Slimes in Copperbell), I wouldn't say anything you listed makes them "bad". Some of the things would make them *good* dungeons - unless of course you're talking about FFXIV players.
Example:
There's nothing wrong with Aurum Vale. It's a proper dungeon. Like most dungeons from 1.0 and even into early Heavensward, it looks and feels and is designed as a physical location you can imagine existing in the world. It's not the random, outlandish gauntlet of linear corridors and perfectly subdivided, geometric platforms XIV calls dungeons now. AV is winding, it's dangerous, it requires planning, patience, positioning and situational awareness. Its bosses have varied mechanics that don't involve some scripted, unchanging DDR-like game of Simon Says. AV's fights take place in locations that actually *make sense* in the setting. The only "problem" with AV is the impatience of people who want to go-go-go and mass pull everything, and AV makes that difficult. "We can't face-roll and rush through it. Boo hoo".
At least older dungeons in FFXIV had variety. Bosses had different mechanics (albeit not all great). It wasn't the same rehashed formula of:
pointless trash corridor > arbitrary, perfectly geometric boss platform > pointless trash corridor > arbitrary, perfectly geometric boss platform > pointless trash corridor > arbitrary, perfectly geometric boss platform > yay you win.
I wouldn't even call them dungeons in XIV anymore. They're barely more than a boss rush. The trash mob pulls could just as well be removed. They serve no purpose. SE has gotten extremely lazy with their dungeon design (as with other elements of XIV), and its fans act like it's the most amazing thing ever.
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak is what makes me hesitant to do Levelling Roulette.
Honestly, Amdpoor keep (hard) is one of my favs to run.
Fuck Toto-rak. It doesn't matter if I queue into Leveling as a post-50 class with other post-50 people, there is a 75% chance we'll get Toto-rak anyways, and if we don't get Toto-rak, we get Copperbell. It's actually my personal hell.
Maybe i'm the only one but the combat system repetitiveness + ALL 4 player dungeon designs make every dungeon in this game outside of 8 player raids and 24 man really boring as hell after the 2nd time you clear it. Theres no worst dungeon for me, they are all equal in that aspect
I'd honestly disagree with the music of TotoRak, as I found it quite nice.
Everything else about it, oh god, fuck it all to hell. One thing that you didn't mention that I think makes it even worse is the aggressively low level sync which makes it even slower.
I like to remind everyone in the comment section. Opinions.
As someone that hasn't done Roulettes almost at all yet, Aurum is instant number 1. It's based on first playthroughs only, yes, but I wanted nothing to do with it, even with a good party.
So to hear all the early game dungeons besides it I'm like "I have no idea what you're talking about, some boring easy low level dungeons are the worst?" I'd rather coast through a boring one than scream at my game.
AV is amazing, it's layout and the sheer fact that it's still the hardest dungeon to ever be implemented into the game makes it my favorite dungeon I've ever done. And honestly, I think SE should of ignored the whiners and kept the rest of the dungeons in 2.0 difficult at max level.
Honestly, I like Amdapor Keep HM. It gives me a vibe of Brinstar from Super Metroid.
Thank you!! Been saying it since I first ran it... The Thousand Maws of Fuck-this-Game.
I very much agree on Toto-Rak. If I made a list, I would probably put Sastasha in there too somewhere. It's fine the first five times when you're new to the game and dungeons, but when you do your leveling roulette and it pops, it's just not a fun run. :P
Hecatoncheirs, like chiropractors. They're from Greek mythology!
I wish they would re-look all of those boring dungeons and do as much re-design as they can. At least making them shorter rather than a boring plain dungeons.
Any list that doesn't have the Praetorium at #1 is just wrong. FUCK THAT DUNGEON AND THE PEOPLE WHO RUN IT! There is no worse way to end the 2.0 story than to be rushed out of every cutscene early, locked out of half the boss fights, and having no clue what is going on. I'm glad they never brought 8 person dungeons back because they were AWFUL
Never had the problem on mana but switched to aether for a friend and wow you're right people are impatient.
Weren't Cutter's Cry, the Darkhold, the Aurum Vale, and the Thousand Maws also present in 1.0? Proof that some things still haunt Eorzea even after the Calamity, I guess.
I do agree with little less than half your list. I feel the worse should of been:
1) Aurum Vale - On my server, people would rather get number 2 on my list, than this thing
2) Thousand Maws of Toto-rak - It earned the name thousand yawns of toto-rak. It's borning and sleep inducing, but not hard
3) Cutter's Cry - This one is the third most dreaded dungeon on my server. People hate it.
4) Dzmael Darkhold - A dungeon that also gets a lot of hate. But not nearly as much as the top 3 on my server.
5) Amdapor Keep (Hard) - all the reasons you stated, are accurate.
With the exception of Toto-Rak -- it AND Sastasha NM were boring -- why do I find myself liking those ones instead of hating them?
I hated:
Pharos Sirius NM (FUCK YOU, SYMOND)
Antitower (AND YOU TOO, ZIGGY)
The Vault (why, trash?! Y U DO SO MUCH DAMAGE?! I can't stance dance at all in this one!)
Neverreap (occasionally, depended on the rest of the group's ability to avoid shit on last boss)
Sohr Khai (The number of times that I feel like I've caused wipes on Hraesvelgr JUST because I can't keep the party alive...Yeah, fuck playing FFXIV anymore...)
Also -- I don't think I'm ever coming back until I see a min ilevel synced group beat Final Steps of Faith. Why? Because my highest level character, a healer AT 205 ilvl, can't even clear that trial.
Fuck this game.
Dzemael Darkhold...All i'm going to say this place every time i hear the name is two words, " FUCK YOU!!!"
Agonizing shiity place back during 2.0 relic grind for that Relic item drop at the end of the run. I hold a special hate for that place.
There's NO WAY to speed run that place fast enough since, if I remember correctly, is gear locked. All I know it suucked when doing relic item drop grind.
Personally I have Cutter's Cry as my #2, with the primary reason being that every single time that I get it, people want to kill EVERY MOB. This makes sense in the first few rooms where you have to in order to proceed, but afterwards, it's a chore. Most classes don't have good AoE capability yet, so it's just tons of small pulls. To make it worse, many patches ago, SE buffed the EXP that dungeon bosses gave, while nerfing the exp that regular dungeon mobs gave, with Cutter's Cry being the dungeon that this change starts with and going on up to Aurum Vale. They did this because they wanted to put a stop to people farming the first several rooms of mobs in Dzemael, but also to try and stop people from leaving these dungeons that took so long because everyone wanted to kill all the mobs for exp, thus making it better exp per minute to only kill what you have to. Nothing tells you this in the game though, and most people just see exp as exp and don't believe it'd be better to just finish the dungeon and re-queue.
Seriously people, just finish the dungeons. If you need exp that badly, go into Palace of the Dead, don't make everyone have to suffer.
First to fourth place: Aurum Vale.
Fifth place: Toto-rak because I always get it on AST capping me at a level where I don't have Draw. Fun.
I'm glad Cutter's Cry and Stone Vigil did not make the list, I actually love both. And even though I don't love Aurum Vale, I don't hate it and don't get why everyone seems to. For me, #1 worst is Dzamael Darkhold and the next four prob would go to the first four dungeons. Most of those early game dungeons get over played, they are all dark, none have good music, and due to lvl syncing, even if you've played this game for 2000 hours, you still have to play with only 1-3 skills which is just really boring. I haven't done a sub lvl 50 roulette since my first job got to level 50
Personally would've replaced Amdapoor Keep (Hard) with Cutters Cry. Both have good final bosses, but the layout and gating of Cutters Cry easily makes it the inferior dungeon. It's first two bosses are also massively inferior design-wise when you consider this dungeon is supposed to come _after_ Sunken Temple of Qarn.
5) Satasha NM - This dungeon is WAY too long for an intro dungeon. It does a good job at introducing players to several different mechanics for bosses, such as avoid AoEs, grabbing extra adds or just stopping adds from spawning all together, but dear god it drags on with all the mobs, locked doors and just overall length of the dungeon itself and god forbid someone wants to clear all the side rooms too for extra XP/loot.
4) Sunken Temple of Quam (sp?) NM - Want to talk about gates? Killing those statue heads on top of the switches is just awful, especially since other mobs tend to push them off right before you kill them, making the fights drag on. The bosses, while having interesting mechanics (Doom is the bane of my existance) it also makes them incredibly annoying. The 2nd boss in particular is extremely frustrating since he drops aggro and goes rampant making him just a painful experience overall.
3) Thousand Maws of Toto-rak - Video explained it pretty much. The heavy, the poison sacks, the gates. Kill it with fire.
2) Dzemael Darkhold - Frogs. THOSE F***ING FROGS. That is all.
1) Aurum Vale - Poison floor EVERYWHERE. The 1st room alone is annoying because of all the adds, accidental pulls etc but that poison floor just makes all that 10x worse. Having to constantly avoid standing in poison, while positioning everything in just the right way that it doesn't cause overpulling or standing in poison is a chore. 1st and last boss are identical for 90% of their fights and Coincounter with his non-telegraphed insta-kill has lead to more than 1 headache there
Pre-nerf Sunken Temple of Qarn gotta be my top. If for nothing more the sudden and utterly unforgiving difficulty curve that resembled more a sheer cliff face for new players. Practically no challenge from 7 dungeons prior to suddenly one shot mechanics out the yin-yang. Ironically I was kinder excited that dungeons were gonna get more difficult from that point on but nope, nothing consistently taxing till Ampdapor Keep after that and even then that was more to do with non dark light gear.
I don't know whether I agree completely or not, but I do feel like the thousand maws is one of the few dungeons in the game that feels like well a "dungeon" in terms of final fantasy rpgs. It's linear, but has branching paths. The mobs feel paced at a point that they feel like random dungeons and the chests are in odd locations. I legitimately feel like the only thing that drags this dungeon down is the design of how the dungeon looks and it's boss variety. You counter with the sticky floor and the egg bombs? I counter with the fact that as a player of final fantasy that this is one of the easiest traps in any ff dungeon ever. Remember this game was originally suppose to feel like an final fantasy game turned mmo, and I feel ashamed that all dungeons now a days have devolved to pretty colors, decent bosses, and unmemorable trash mobs with no exciting dungeon layouts to curve players.
>no Qarn
Am disappoint
I actually like The Aurum Vale, other then the first room it's not bad. One of my friends always complains when we get it, but eh xp
First room is basically a beginner's trap.
It isn't bad, it is mostly the fact you're synced to 49.... Your last skill (usually a very good one) is JUST out of reach. That and since your gear is also synced, the mobs hit pretty damn hard for a leveling dungeon.
The level sync is the WORST. Gods it's the most annoying level sync in history! щ(ಠ益ಠщ)
i like it too. should have been in top 10 imo
I have good memories of the times my FC mates had to clear av and kept forgetting to pick the GC quest, so we had to go there 27485942718 times for everyone. it was also a nice place to level up the last bit to 50, we'd make a party and spam the first room lmao
Worst or longest ?
People ask for less linear dungeon and you say toto rak is the worst ? Are you kidding ?
James Stine ok so a good dungeon is a dungeon you can speed run ? Great !
James Stine the heavy thing and the bombs are ( not fun) original, the map too, the web door also. This dungeon have some unique stuff. Yes the mobs are basic and the boss are complete joke, but when I saw in the vid they the design is depresing it make me laugh ! It's a prison ! But you are right, this is just about taste and this kind of top is subjective !
Music makes difference for sure. I had copperbell today as leveling and yesterday too. It is so boring, and takes forever it feels, I agree. x_x
ALSO YES, I HATE THOUSAND MAWS OF TOTO-RAK Q_Q
tam tara is the second dungeon you go into, it has to be a bit light. copperbell is the 3rd dungeon you do and your complaint about music may be valid but it is also 5 yr old content. Arum Vale is a pain, it is also the first dungeon that has monsters with HUGE aggro range, but i agree it's one that prepares ppl for the lvl 50 and beyond dungeons. what i question is why are there so many beginner dungeons on the list, i mean people have to learn somehow.
I don't actually hate Amdapor Keep Hard, but all the other ones in this list, I just immediately quit as soon as I get em, I'd rather take 30 minutes in the penalty box then waste time on those shits.
Amdapor hard, gotta agree with it's boring.
DD... yeah this place sucks. Fuck the second part.
Tam Tara... at least you can speedrun? It's a tutorial done wrong.
Copperbell. Screw that slime. Stand still and stare: the boss.
Aurum Vale is a great dungeon. It's a good challenge and that first room teaches you to pay God damn attention.
Stone: STOP GAME ... so damn long.
Cutters: I have no issues with this place.
Totorak... the 20 minute dungeon that feels like 40
I knew they gutted Toto-Rak, but I forgot how bad it used to be. 🤣
I don't mind copperbell and Tam-tara to be honest. Tam-tara is usually my go-to dongeon lvl 1-50 for my WT to clear. Amdapapor Keep hard is not that bad either, neither is Stone Vigil.
My personnal top 5 would probably go like this:
5- Cutter's cry
4- Lost City of Amdapor (the music puts me to sleep in like 2 sec)
3-Dzemael Darkhold
2- Aurum Vale
1- Thousand Maws of Torokak (because it's just the worst)
I really don't get how some of these got on the list because of their "lack of monster variety", when they have like 10 different types of monsters while some of the dungeons in your best-dungeons-list had way less (looking at you, Hullbreaker Isle..).
Even if monster variety is brought up as a negative, doesn't mean it's because it ranked so low. There are lots of other elements pulling a dungeon down the list, and a lack of monster variety is one of them. Hullbreaker Isle got a massive loss of points due to its lacking monster variety (basically just bugs and monkeys), but it had other elements that pulled it up!
Darkhold easy to speed run? What are you talking about!? The thing everyone hates about that dungeon is how ungodly LONG it is.
The Thousand Yawns of Total-Naps... hey kids, you know what that Door to Abacination or whatever means? I'd rather be subject to that than run this dungeon one more friggin time.
Aurum vale occupies all 5 spots of my top 5 worst dungeons
I hate Aurum Vale not for what it is now, but for what it was when i first did it on Scholar when ARR released.
I actually like stone vigil. It's challenging at times, but in a fun way, unlike aurum vale and dzemael darkhold. I agree with this list except #5, I'd either have that go to Aurum Vale or Halatali.
I agree with all except totorak, I honestly don't mind totorak, the only downside is limited skills at that level which makes it a little boring
if we should add one becuase design Cutter's cry should be on the list, though chimera and princess compensates the lazy design.
There is no doubt that Toto-rak is the worst dungeon, but I think the reasons are probably self-inflicted, as it's also a recycled v1.0 dungeon.
Is it truely the "worst" dungeon though?
The two separate paths at the beginning was interesting, and something you don't appreciate until you try it solo and realize "gee how come I've never been here... oh wait because everyone used the same guide to make it the shortest". You can actually pick up the 4 progress widgets down one of the paths without having to go back into one of the other paths, as one of those magitek cells is just on a wall that's easy to miss. Yes, one path is the "fight everything" path.
I'd have to say that if Square-Enix were to re-polish some of these dungeons that were cleaved off their V1.0 versions, I'd want them to put back the original length of the dungeons (with multiple boss rooms,) but change how they're gated so that the progress widgets were not dropped from monsters, and then place shortcut teleports after the optional bosses are defeated back to last fork in the road.
Could you imagine what a Toto-rak (hard) would be? Maybe recycle that "Knights Round" dungeon that never made it into 1.0.
I think this is generally a great list. I really like AK Hard. But the others I agree with. AV should be on the list, despite it actually having a refreshing change of more challenging mechanics for new players. It's always that dungeon that people just leave as soon as they que in and realize they got in for roulette. People would rather take the penalty than have to go through it. That speaks volumes about the dungeon in itself. But it got an honorable mention, so good enough.
Also, my FC's name for Toko-Rak: Thousand Yawns of Toto-Rak.
Good list, but i have to go with Aurum Vale. Its not bad for map design, the music is pretty cool. But its a nightmare to run and tank/heal. The first room requires knowledge of how to tank and restraining yourself due to the healers strength. It requires you to actually think and for people to not tunnel vision. Healers that just heal bot make the run long as hell, not to mention that dps that still dont know about rotations and cooldowns. One wrong pull or messing up a mechanic, and it just becomes a field of death real quick, turning a 20-25 min run into 45 min.
You say that like it's a bad thing! This is actually what MORE dungeons should have, instead of being just boring faceroll dungeons that don't bring anything new to the table. Dungeons need to be tougher and require more critical thinking and preparation besides just mindless "pull all enemies to boss, aoe them down (or lock them out), kill boss, rinse and repeat". That's how free to play/pay to win gamers play games. When you have players doing that, you get players who complain that *endgame raids* are too hard ( *LIKE THEY DID WITH GORDIAS* ), and I'm like "Uh yeah, *that's the fucking point!* "
When dungeons are too easy, you attract more people with that lazy mentality. Overall dungeon difficulty needs to increase. If it doesn't, we're already seeing massive hordes of bad, scrub players thinking they can just faceroll everything like they do in dungeons, making the overall experience for everyone worse.
OK, to be fair, Tam-Tara was the 1st dungeon ever in the game. During alpha it was the ONLY dungeon you could run when we were limited to the Black Shroud area. They did make changes by release and streamlined it more. It would have probably been higher on the list if they kept the old version.
I can't stand the fact that the dungeon i already completed is the worst dungeon in the entire game.
Old video but there was a rework to toto rak and Copperbell that makes it less bland
Totorak is far longer than necessary to complete with its twisting long ass hallways is always annoying to get in roulettes.
Stone Vigil isnt really in the same league as the others here honestly. Like its nothing special or anything, but its also not outstandingly bad - honestly by ARR dungeon standards (which, lets be honest, arent super high) its one of the better ones. You can actually get decent pulls going and get through it reasonably fast, and the cannon mechanic on the first boss is kinda neat. Its only really frustrating if you're with your squadron and playing tank or healer, in which case they obviously wont actually do the mechanics so you need to babysit them into it. Thats more of an issue of the squadron AI being dumber than a sack of rocks than it is a dungeon thing though.
Copperbell is #1 for me.
It's boring, feels longer than it should, is not particularly interesting visually, and the bosses... Well, let's see...
First boss is a ridiculously easy enemy gauntlet in which enemies are killed so fast you end yourself waiting for the next wave to arrive. You could solo this thing.
Second boss is a puzzle that has half of the party going AFK.
Final boss has the easiest to ignore mechanic in the whole game. Even the Sastasha final boss usually manages to spawn an add or two if you ignore it's mechanics. Not this guy, in practice he's just a big guy with higher HP.
Sastasha is the introductory dungeon, Tam-Tara is over quickly, and Toto-Rak also feels shorter, looks cooler and has a more interesting final boss. Copperbell is just a drag.
Ok... First off when scoring from 1-10 you shouldn't be giving Zeros. If those zero's were 1s then TotoRak may not have been worst. I don't disagree with it being #1 on the worst list. Just saying for knitpicking's sake.
I kept waiting for my least favorite to be on the list. Sastasha and Sastasha Hard. While Pirates are always "fun" it gets real tedious real fast.
My worst 5
5: Aurumn Vale
4: Cutter's Cry
3: Sastasha (Hard)
2: Dzemael Darkhold
1: Toto Rak
It would be interesting to see a comparison of what were the dungeons available in the Alpha/Beta of ARR and their eventual release versions. Tam Tara's dungeon was extremely different during testing. So much so that they removed an entire boss and made him a guildhest.
I assumed, going into this list, that AV would certainly take #1, but The Thousand Yawns of Total Nap definitely takes the cake
I was gonna argue that Amdapor Keep (Hard) is actually good until you mentioned that the last room and final boss are both good point
That I can agree with, same with the beginning being lackluster
Amdapor keep was the bane of my life when it was in the expert roulette. Seemed to be the one I got like 95% of the time and just feels a good 20% longer/slower than almost every other dungeon.
Meh, the only dungeon that's mentioned in this video that makes me want to say "sorry, but I'd rather spend the next half hour grinding instead of doing this" is Aurum Vale. The other dungeons are at least guaranteed rewards - unless you're looking for specific gear drops for glamouring, you will be getting what you came for eventually, be it tomestones, experience, or MSQ progression, because they're sufficiently easy any given roulette group will make it through.
The dungeons that make me go "daaaamn, not this place!" are the aforementioned Aurum Vale; Pharos Sirius (the normal version), The Vault, and that one where you fight Nidhogg the first time, due to the difficulty of the encounters and way too many wipes while I was doing them for quests; and Bowl of Embers (Normal), because it's in the leveling roulette and gives next to no XP due to being a Trial, so if you're trying to use the leveling roulette to actually level an off class, you just lost a big chunk of potential XP for the day.
how the hell did you score them? All of your numbered dungeons are mildly annoying at best, but your Runners Up ones are far far worse. Aurum Vale is prepping for end game? WTF? It really seems like the lack of unique music is why you put the ones you did where they are. But in reality, the ones that are numbered are rarely run, even when leveling. Sure 1kMaw, Copperbell, et all are boring, but they're intro dungeons and even if you're spamming the leveling roulette you'll rarely end up in the same one over and over (unless that's all you have), but even then, with the XP boosts since ARR, you'll be out of that 15-25 range soon enough with only a few runs. Cutter's Cry can have almost all of its mechanics ignored. And all the starter ones can be speed run. Now, Brayflox sucks, Aurum Vale STDs, Wanderer's Palace, and ugh Stone Vigil...god fuck. There's no quick way through, there's no bypassing mechanics, and YOU WILL RUN THEM OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
OH. And then lets NOT FORGET the entire storyline you waded through to UNLOCK Brayflox Sucx. The entire, fucking, poorly paced, fetch quest, bitch quest that was Company of Heros! Wooo, so you spend dozens of bitch quests proving yourself to the previous incarnation of the last party of GROUPIES, people, who for all accounts are and were pathetic, only rising to fame because the last Warrior of Light led them into battle. Somehow. Culminating with the bitch quest of all bitch quests: Rescuing Brayflox's latest batch of stinky Goblin Cheese from the maniacal clutches of ... a dragon that just wants to be left alone to sleep. All before they'd let you fight....Titan. Just Titan. Regular old Titan. A primal that also...just wants to be left alone and his children not murdered. OH BOY! WHAT FUN! Gee gollicers willy!
The difficulty ramp into Brayflox Sucx and Aurum Vale led to many wipes, all of them based on the two worst things to happen to not end game raiding. Persistent environmental hazards and stupid repetitive boss mechanics. Don't stand in the derp. Don't stand near a gas fountain. Eat fruit at 2 and 3 stacks. Kill the morbile seeds. Don't stack up on the boss. Avoid the aoe room cleave. Don't stand in the poison. Drag the dragon out of the poison. PULL THE FUCKING DRAGON OUT OF THE POISON, ITS HEALING! FUCK IT, PULLING AGGRO OFF TANK TO DRAG DRAGON TO EDGE OF THE ROOM. Brayflox is the first dungeon where tanks have to do something besides tank and spank in turret mode. And no one transitions gracefully, and nothing leading up to it involves that level of complication (ie stop watching netflix and tank).
I actually really like copperbell cuz the bosses feel genuinely creative in contrast to the other tank and spanks.
While agree mostly I absolutely hate AV with a passion mainly for its first room and how much I had to grind it just to get from 47-50. However I will add there is nothing more boring than how the dungeons have become so mind numbingly boring due to the trash > boss > trash > boss makeup of each and every dungeon. I like the little things that make dungeons different like which colour coral to touch in sastasha and running away from the stalking tonberrys in the wandering palace. I really hate that mmos are now just about mindless dungeon running. Yoshi-P and his team better up their dungeon game for Stormblood.
So basically you don't like the low level dungeons. Got it.
But yes...Darkhold is quite a cringe to go through and the leveling roulette loves throwing you in there.
Just because they are low level doesn't excuse them for being bad. Even when I joined the game, and everything was new and exciting, I hated Copperbell Mines, Thousand Maws, Tam Tara, all because they are bland and boring. Thousand maws literally has things that slow you down, those are the extent of the mechanics in the dungeon, just to drag the already mind numbing task longer. The higher level dungeons are far more interesting and have more mechanics. Its not against low level dungeons in general, its just that some of them there are shit.
Isn't the higher level dungeons suppose to be interesting? Lower level dungeons are always going to be simplistic.
Zephyr I'd rather somewhat boring low level dugeons than a chance of wiping when trying to relax at grinding.
The amount of time that the game takes to reach its peak is a large and commonly cited flaw of ARR. Did you buy FFXIV because you watched some level 60+ gameplay and thought that it looked really fun? It's only going to take you 100+ hours to get there!
The number of times I've made people wait by actually sleeping midway within the dungeon while running into walls... I'm sorry to those people...
I've even dreaded leveling up different class because I never wanted this for roulette. T.T
For AV you mean the first and last boss are copies :D
Tam Tara's my go-to for filling out my WT journal.
I actually love Amdapor Keep Hard and its music, it's a bit creepy, I like it.
It reminds me so much of Metroid!
4:37 me neither ಠ_ಠ
aren't most of FF14 dungeons kinda boring honestly? AV tho i agree with what is said it is a good dungeon just a total pain to tank it
I've never done Cutters Cry before
When do even do this dungeon
Toto Rak and Aurum Vale are the entire list...every single other dungeon is fine.
Sunken Temple of Qarn and the Aurum Vale are my absolute least favorite dungeons in all of XIV
Qarn is at least a bit challenging for healers
Final sting scares me as healer tho, the instant panic of "WHY THE TANK DIED???"
All of these are fast and easy, the slowing one with the last boss as a huge scorpion is the worst.
also the last dungeon because the shield sometimes glitches and wipes (not being too early/late)
Actually, I like most of these. Like, sure they have some annoyances in them, but that's like part of the game. I liked Aurum Vale too, and I didn't even wipe once on my first try.
AV not in the top 5 is - questionable. And it's because someone trolled the scoring to make it that way. Bearded Spock admires your logic bomb!
Overall, it shows the original dungeons are a bit dull, which is not a controversial opinion. And, to their credit, the developers upped their game and produced better dungeons as the game has matured. With some exceptions that have their own set of opinions ;)
cbltex Honestly I feel like it's only not on the list cause it looks nice. I only expected gameplay reasons for these being the worst, so when I see "it gets a pass cause it look cool" makes it feel like cheating.
I actually like Stone Vigil, but I usually tank it and I do alot of chain pulling which makes it go by faster. That and I always had fun before it got nerfed on the last little optional room by stressing the healer out. Its been nerfed since then in the sense that the ice sprites now have smaller range and dont require ranged pull and I'm pretty sure there are less enemies in that room now lol. As for on the honerable mentions, though I was still never a fan of Cutters Cry, I did enjoy the first boss when a party member had to kite, usually healers, but since the nerf it has become just as boring as the rest of the dungeon, aside from the chimera.
Shout out to Sunken Temple of Qarn
My list...
1.Aurum Vale
2.Keeper of the Lake
3.The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
4.Aery
5.Dzemael Darkhold
I'm late to the party. But I'm a new player. When I saw this I immediately thought: I bet number 1 is AVale or "the goddamn spider web one"
I was right. Goddamn spider webs.
Interesting I'm honestly surprised to see Tam-Tara and Copperbell Mines on this but like you said it's all subjective. Tam-Tara Deepcroft and Copperbell are 2 of my personal favorite dungeons.
Looking on this list now I must say those dungeons are good because they are unique in their own way. New dungeons are really boring. They fell like they were made only to blast through them and thats all.
completely agree! 1000 maws is hell and I cringe when queing for leveling duty roulette.
Yes I knew toto-rak would win the top 5 lol that dungeon is just pain and sadness. Usually I'm very willing to help people with all dungeons in the game but if they say toto-rak I just go like "I'm sorry, that one is the only I don't help with" lol I think it wouldn't be so bad if it was a side dungeon but it's in the middle of storyline. ugh. About the Aurum Vale, you probably confused yourself there. it's not the first and second bosses that are copy paste, it's first and third. the second boss is the coincounter, which actually introduced the first AoEs without telegraph that you have to look at the casting bar and how the boss is positioned to avoid. Oh how many times I wiped in that one... So many that I started going there only as healer just to raise people and try to guarantee the clear lol
The more I watch these videos, the more I hope they patch in a dungeon music option. Better yet, can you imagine a portable Orchestrion MP3 player?
Jason Bryant this was brought up at PAX by fans. Yoshida said he'll consider it
Very nice! Would be great to at least have the option.
kori08 He'll consider that but not fucking Nemesis as a roll you can get? ._.
wanted to say, you guys are great, and deserve more views