Please do Shadowrun: Dragonfall if you get a chance, it's the best of the Shadowrun games and has a much more developed story and much better character development. Much more meaty story for you to dig into.
Totally agree on the dialogue choices helping immerse me into the role of my runner. I really felt this was a fantastic role playing experience despite being very straightforward-mission based. You hit the nail on the head with so many aspects of this game that I couldn’t quite explain myself.
As the comments illustrate, Dragonfall is everything that this game had to offer but better. It stands as one of my all time favorite games standing on just the strength of its plot, characters, and story. For me it was a phenomenal experience. EDIT: And this is more of an address to the comments, for everyone who played Hong Kong and found the story lacking, I would highly recommend downloading the Caldecott Caper module as I actually found that story line and development of that user-created mod to be even better than the base game provided by HBS, which I did still quite enjoy for its characters (Gobbet, Cheng, Duncan, Ractor, etc.)
A note on why insect spirits are such a big deal: they are said to herald the arrival of something much bigger and far worse yet to come (look up the word 'invae' or 'the Scourge' and it should set you on the right path if you want to know more). It's just that now, because of real-life behind the scenes politics and copyrights etc, they can't be anymore. Legally. But by the time when the pen-and-paper editions of SR when SR:R takes place, they very much still were.
You had asked how the insect spirits fit into the grand scheme of things. If you're familiar with Earthdawn, I believe that insect spirits are minor Horrors. If you're not familiar with Earthdawn, it's Shadowrun if you replaced the cyberpunk with post-apocalypse. Long story short, the bugs are trying to bring on the apocalypse, before The Sixth World is ready to become The Seventh. Dragons are pretty much the only ones who remember the Fourth World, which is why they were so motivated to do the Bug City experiment. The Shadowrun timeline is cyclical. Magic returns to the world and builds to such a level that it attracts Horrors that eat pain. The last time around, wars were fought over the designs of supposedly Horror-proof fallout shelters that were being used as bargaining chips by empires that were more megacorporation, than country. The Elves were too proud to bargain, making their own shelters... that failed only a few hundred years in, so they warded off the Horrors, by enchanting themselves to grow excruciatingly painful thorns out of their bones, which led to them being called Blood Elves. Their example is somewhat reminiscent of Star Control 2. Earthdawn begins, when the majority of the Horrors move on several hundred years earlier, than expected. That opens up many roleplaying scenarios with megacorporations scrambling for as much power as possible as quickly as possible to defend against each other, exploration, dungeon-crawling the compromised fallout shelters, attempting to kill any Horror stragglers, and making deals with dragons. Letting the bugs begin the invasion, five thousand years ahead of schedule, before we even know about the need for Horror-proof arcologies that can sustain themselves for centuries, would be a Very Bad Thing. What's especially bad is that the Horrors are very shallow villains, so our games, art, and literature will get a bit stale.
It's a pity patrons made you ruminate on SR:R instead of Dragonfall. It's superior in every way, especially because it has real companions which are quite memorable.
Gotta agree with you on a lot of those points Lore. I was surprised how much I enjoyed the combat, because I don’t usually like TB. And maybe a good term that you’re looking for is “extra-linear”, which is not inherently a bad thing, as you now know. This is one of my examples of a Par game.
3:00 Imo, NWN is a bad example because it is a far superior "TRPG the game." The huuuuge user contents archive (far far bigger than Shadowrun custom contents, maybe the biggest of its kind) is the proof of its brilliance. Also the game mechanics isn't as dumbed down or simplified as Shadowrun series. Other than that, great review!
Everybody in the comment section already mentioned that the next game (Dragonfall) is much better, even you mentioned during rumination that people already told you that. But you said this feels more like a Shadowrun game with module creation (with basic Death man's switch default module) and I think thats exactly how it was developed. Now I didn't follow the game during its kickstarted / development, I played the whole series couple of years later, but Returns looks to me like they got their funding, made the engine, the module editor and then put together linear campaign as a showcase what it can do. Dragonfall feels like they finally had everything setup and could focus on the story (which makes sense, because as far as I know originally it was just another module for Returns, only with Director's cut it became its own game with engine changes and additional content). It has actual permanent companions with their own stories, quest hub, non-linear mission selection, etc. I'll be definitely requesting it for the next round of ruminations (preferably with Hong Kong as well)
I hope you visit the recent shadowrun titles, because Shadowrun Returns is the core of the gameplay, Dragonfall adds interesting characters & development with good story and Hong Kong offers an unique enviroment and more to the gameplay.
Also the reason saving doesnt use a different slot is because, as you said the big thing with the game is the mods or User Generated Content, in which you may have 4 different saves for different campaigns, And I spam quicksaves a lot (thanks to deus ex) and I appreciate the fact that the rewind system exists.
I'd love to see a Rumination for Dragonfall. It's such an improvement of SR:R /DMS. I honestly loved Returns but Dragonfall has a better story, a better focus on your team mates as actual characters, and better combat encounters.
+Lorerunner Release timeline: Deadman's Switch, Dragonfall, Hong Kong. Importance: Dragonfall > Hong Kong > Deadman's Switch. If you do no other Shadowrun game, I would strongly advise listening to others in this section and setting some time aside to really chew on Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut. While I personally REALLY love Hong Kong, the vast bulk of fans will tout Dragonfall as having the greatest narrative and characters.
So on bug spirits. The spirits themselves I've never seen as being "evil" per second they are more like fire or a tidal wave. It'll kill you but it's not malicious it's simply that their reproductive cycle involves posessing and "killing" a sentient. The evil or the tragic comes from the shaman. A bug queen needs a bug shaman to bridge the gap and start the ball and you have to be broken pretty bad to bind yourself to a bug. Blood mages that's more my idea of the acceptable always evil target given they are basically portrayed as horrific people sacrificing monsters. Though for those who know the joint earth dawn shadowrun universe know that bugs are just the early warning. There's worse to come and it's getting closer
Hey, love your channel, but you got a couple parts wrong. Simsense chips do generally require people to make the content in real life, but fake experiences can be programmed. BTLs are simsense chips that have the safeties turned off, and the biofeedback dialed up. The thing you referenced about doing a BTL where someone is killed is accurate, but they would have had both sides recorded. Bunrakus aren't the recording stars; they are people who have had their minds wiped or suppressed, and they usually have cosmetic surgery done to them to basically make into living sex dolls and/or otherwise fantasy creations.
The insect spirits are shoehorned in. That's literally the idea. They were tossed into Shadowrun to make a major crisis. They show up from another plane of existence, to basically use us as food. There is no huge story because they really don't have any major plans. The Horrors do, but they are different. The Invidae are basically just a force of nature, and while they are smarter than insects, they still generally have the same motive.
Was i really just you and harlequin on the last mission? you could have had a nameless guard that would have had one of those guns and Coyote [how don't get a gun but is still bad ass.] come with you. Weird.
I'm wondering why people tend to recommend Dragonfall, as opposed to Dragonfall _and_ Hong Kong. Because as far as I'm concerned the latter is even better (even if only slightly).
Lot of comment praise DragonFall, which is deserved but i got to say, Hong Kong is very good too, in gameplay in particular it's even better than DragonFall
I just started watching. But I loved the snes game of shadowrun. But I wish they would do one like that again. But in the snes version you play as a guy name jake. What is funny in returns I think it's returns u go to a more and a guy pop out of the fridge and talks to you and it jake make the character you play in the snes. But if you ever play the snes do a vid on that. Also off topic do a vid on zombies ate my neighbors and its sequel I didn't know off when I was little but Ghoul Patrol
I completely disagree with your point about the game's story having a "nice escalation" and I am going to lay out why that is and why I think Dead Man's Switch is a terrible story. The entire reason lies in the plot reveal of the bug spirits, it is where the story goes from "investigate Sam's murder and avenge him" to your typical "save the world" story. Now why is this bad? Because these two plots have NOTHING in common aside from Sam's sister being involved in both. Usually when you have a plot twist, it should serve to put all previous events, actions and characters into a new light. This reveal does not do that, the Brotherhood's plot to invade the world with insect spirits have nothing to do with Sam's murder. Let's take Mass Effect 1. Let's imagine instead of Commander Shepard the Spectre, you instead played Shepard the tax collector. Now let's imagine that the first part of this new game has you chasing down Saren due him commiting tax fraud, then halfway through you go to Virmire where you suddenly get the same plot twist regarding Sovereign as the original ME1 and the game then becomes about stopping the Reapers ala normal ME1. Would that be a good escalation? Is that a good twist? I mean both stories are technically connected by having Saren be in both of them. The answer is of course no. Dead Man's Switch is an enjoyable, if cheesy and silly murder mystery incompetently welded together to one of the dumbest "save the world" stories I've seen in a video game (hey, even you admit the bug spirits are super lame). In my opinion the writers should have gone one of two different routes with the story. 1: Have the game focus solely on the murder of Sam and brining his killers to justice. This is more or less what the first part of the game is, but this time there is no stupid bug spirit worshipping scientologists. Have the endgame be solely focused on Sam's sister as the villain. 2: Focus on the bug spirits and cult. In this version Sam would be a distant childhood friend who went on to become a privat detective (instead of low life trash) while your character became a criminal. Have the same premise as the original with him contacting you through a dead man's switch, but here he tells you that he has been working on several cases involving ritual murders. He is afraid however that someone is after him for getting too close to the truth and he doesn't know who to trust so he set up the DMS to contact his old childhood friend in hopes that you will complete the case if he dies. The story from then on would be somewhat similiar to the game as is, but this time the different murders are all done by the cult as part of some grand ritual to prepare the arrival of the bug spirits. That way the first half of the game would actually be related to the second part of the game.
Please do Shadowrun: Dragonfall if you get a chance, it's the best of the Shadowrun games and has a much more developed story and much better character development. Much more meaty story for you to dig into.
Heh debatable. I think it got the best character but Hong Kong got the best gameplay and story, but heh personal opinion
Totally agree on the dialogue choices helping immerse me into the role of my runner. I really felt this was a fantastic role playing experience despite being very straightforward-mission based.
You hit the nail on the head with so many aspects of this game that I couldn’t quite explain myself.
As the comments illustrate, Dragonfall is everything that this game had to offer but better. It stands as one of my all time favorite games standing on just the strength of its plot, characters, and story. For me it was a phenomenal experience.
EDIT: And this is more of an address to the comments, for everyone who played Hong Kong and found the story lacking, I would highly recommend downloading the Caldecott Caper module as I actually found that story line and development of that user-created mod to be even better than the base game provided by HBS, which I did still quite enjoy for its characters (Gobbet, Cheng, Duncan, Ractor, etc.)
I love the Shadowrun TTRPG and they did extremely well with the lore :)
A note on why insect spirits are such a big deal: they are said to herald the arrival of something much bigger and far worse yet to come (look up the word 'invae' or 'the Scourge' and it should set you on the right path if you want to know more).
It's just that now, because of real-life behind the scenes politics and copyrights etc, they can't be anymore. Legally. But by the time when the pen-and-paper editions of SR when SR:R takes place, they very much still were.
I played this couple of years back and i remember enjoying it. Felt like a fresh of breath air compared to other games I was playing
You had asked how the insect spirits fit into the grand scheme of things. If you're familiar with Earthdawn, I believe that insect spirits are minor Horrors. If you're not familiar with Earthdawn, it's Shadowrun if you replaced the cyberpunk with post-apocalypse. Long story short, the bugs are trying to bring on the apocalypse, before The Sixth World is ready to become The Seventh. Dragons are pretty much the only ones who remember the Fourth World, which is why they were so motivated to do the Bug City experiment.
The Shadowrun timeline is cyclical. Magic returns to the world and builds to such a level that it attracts Horrors that eat pain. The last time around, wars were fought over the designs of supposedly Horror-proof fallout shelters that were being used as bargaining chips by empires that were more megacorporation, than country. The Elves were too proud to bargain, making their own shelters... that failed only a few hundred years in, so they warded off the Horrors, by enchanting themselves to grow excruciatingly painful thorns out of their bones, which led to them being called Blood Elves. Their example is somewhat reminiscent of Star Control 2.
Earthdawn begins, when the majority of the Horrors move on several hundred years earlier, than expected. That opens up many roleplaying scenarios with megacorporations scrambling for as much power as possible as quickly as possible to defend against each other, exploration, dungeon-crawling the compromised fallout shelters, attempting to kill any Horror stragglers, and making deals with dragons.
Letting the bugs begin the invasion, five thousand years ahead of schedule, before we even know about the need for Horror-proof arcologies that can sustain themselves for centuries, would be a Very Bad Thing. What's especially bad is that the Horrors are very shallow villains, so our games, art, and literature will get a bit stale.
Kefka and his racing by on motorcycles during recording,CURSES!!
It's a pity patrons made you ruminate on SR:R instead of Dragonfall. It's superior in every way, especially because it has real companions which are quite memorable.
Daniel S why is it a pity?
Gotta agree with you on a lot of those points Lore. I was surprised how much I enjoyed the combat, because I don’t usually like TB. And maybe a good term that you’re looking for is “extra-linear”, which is not inherently a bad thing, as you now know. This is one of my examples of a Par game.
You could also hire another guy to help you kill the bug spirits in the final level.
3:00 Imo, NWN is a bad example because it is a far superior "TRPG the game." The huuuuge user contents archive (far far bigger than Shadowrun custom contents, maybe the biggest of its kind) is the proof of its brilliance. Also the game mechanics isn't as dumbed down or simplified as Shadowrun series.
Other than that, great review!
SR:R was a good proof of concept that Dragonfall improved on in every way.
Everybody in the comment section already mentioned that the next game (Dragonfall) is much better, even you mentioned during rumination that people already told you that.
But you said this feels more like a Shadowrun game with module creation (with basic Death man's switch default module) and I think thats exactly how it was developed. Now I didn't follow the game during its kickstarted / development, I played the whole series couple of years later, but Returns looks to me like they got their funding, made the engine, the module editor and then put together linear campaign as a showcase what it can do.
Dragonfall feels like they finally had everything setup and could focus on the story (which makes sense, because as far as I know originally it was just another module for Returns, only with Director's cut it became its own game with engine changes and additional content). It has actual permanent companions with their own stories, quest hub, non-linear mission selection, etc.
I'll be definitely requesting it for the next round of ruminations (preferably with Hong Kong as well)
I hope you visit the recent shadowrun titles, because Shadowrun Returns is the core of the gameplay, Dragonfall adds interesting characters & development with good story and Hong Kong offers an unique enviroment and more to the gameplay.
Also the reason saving doesnt use a different slot is because, as you said the big thing with the game is the mods or User Generated Content, in which you may have 4 different saves for different campaigns, And I spam quicksaves a lot (thanks to deus ex) and I appreciate the fact that the rewind system exists.
I'd love to see a Rumination for Dragonfall. It's such an improvement of SR:R /DMS.
I honestly loved Returns but Dragonfall has a better story, a better focus on your team mates as actual characters, and better combat encounters.
+Lorerunner Release timeline: Deadman's Switch, Dragonfall, Hong Kong.
Importance: Dragonfall > Hong Kong > Deadman's Switch. If you do no other Shadowrun game, I would strongly advise listening to others in this section and setting some time aside to really chew on Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut. While I personally REALLY love Hong Kong, the vast bulk of fans will tout Dragonfall as having the greatest narrative and characters.
I feel like you call most games a "weird one" to ruminate on in your opening.
So on bug spirits. The spirits themselves I've never seen as being "evil" per second they are more like fire or a tidal wave. It'll kill you but it's not malicious it's simply that their reproductive cycle involves posessing and "killing" a sentient.
The evil or the tragic comes from the shaman. A bug queen needs a bug shaman to bridge the gap and start the ball and you have to be broken pretty bad to bind yourself to a bug.
Blood mages that's more my idea of the acceptable always evil target given they are basically portrayed as horrific people sacrificing monsters.
Though for those who know the joint earth dawn shadowrun universe know that bugs are just the early warning. There's worse to come and it's getting closer
Hey, love your channel, but you got a couple parts wrong. Simsense chips do generally require people to make the content in real life, but fake experiences can be programmed. BTLs are simsense chips that have the safeties turned off, and the biofeedback dialed up. The thing you referenced about doing a BTL where someone is killed is accurate, but they would have had both sides recorded. Bunrakus aren't the recording stars; they are people who have had their minds wiped or suppressed, and they usually have cosmetic surgery done to them to basically make into living sex dolls and/or otherwise fantasy creations.
The insect spirits are shoehorned in. That's literally the idea. They were tossed into Shadowrun to make a major crisis. They show up from another plane of existence, to basically use us as food. There is no huge story because they really don't have any major plans. The Horrors do, but they are different. The Invidae are basically just a force of nature, and while they are smarter than insects, they still generally have the same motive.
Bug Spirit = Astral Tyranids.
Was i really just you and harlequin on the last mission? you could have had a nameless guard that would have had one of those guns and Coyote [how don't get a gun but is still bad ass.] come with you. Weird.
I had such high expectations. The SNES game being one of my fave of all time. There was no world in this game. It didn’t feel alive at all.
I'm wondering why people tend to recommend Dragonfall, as opposed to Dragonfall _and_ Hong Kong. Because as far as I'm concerned the latter is even better (even if only slightly).
Lot of comment praise DragonFall, which is deserved but i got to say, Hong Kong is very good too, in gameplay in particular it's even better than DragonFall
I just started watching. But I loved the snes game of shadowrun. But I wish they would do one like that again. But in the snes version you play as a guy name jake. What is funny in returns I think it's returns u go to a more and a guy pop out of the fridge and talks to you and it jake make the character you play in the snes. But if you ever play the snes do a vid on that. Also off topic do a vid on zombies ate my neighbors and its sequel I didn't know off when I was little but Ghoul Patrol
My auto correct sucks but the word more was Morgue
Wow my auto added words I didn't write lol
Shadowrun Dragonfall is way better than shadowrun returns
I completely disagree with your point about the game's story having a "nice escalation" and I am going to lay out why that is and why I think Dead Man's Switch is a terrible story.
The entire reason lies in the plot reveal of the bug spirits, it is where the story goes from "investigate Sam's murder and avenge him" to your typical "save the world" story. Now why is this bad? Because these two plots have NOTHING in common aside from Sam's sister being involved in both. Usually when you have a plot twist, it should serve to put all previous events, actions and characters into a new light. This reveal does not do that, the Brotherhood's plot to invade the world with insect spirits have nothing to do with Sam's murder.
Let's take Mass Effect 1. Let's imagine instead of Commander Shepard the Spectre, you instead played Shepard the tax collector. Now let's imagine that the first part of this new game has you chasing down Saren due him commiting tax fraud, then halfway through you go to Virmire where you suddenly get the same plot twist regarding Sovereign as the original ME1 and the game then becomes about stopping the Reapers ala normal ME1. Would that be a good escalation? Is that a good twist? I mean both stories are technically connected by having Saren be in both of them.
The answer is of course no. Dead Man's Switch is an enjoyable, if cheesy and silly murder mystery incompetently welded together to one of the dumbest "save the world" stories I've seen in a video game (hey, even you admit the bug spirits are super lame). In my opinion the writers should have gone one of two different routes with the story.
1: Have the game focus solely on the murder of Sam and brining his killers to justice. This is more or less what the first part of the game is, but this time there is no stupid bug spirit worshipping scientologists. Have the endgame be solely focused on Sam's sister as the villain.
2: Focus on the bug spirits and cult. In this version Sam would be a distant childhood friend who went on to become a privat detective (instead of low life trash) while your character became a criminal. Have the same premise as the original with him contacting you through a dead man's switch, but here he tells you that he has been working on several cases involving ritual murders. He is afraid however that someone is after him for getting too close to the truth and he doesn't know who to trust so he set up the DMS to contact his old childhood friend in hopes that you will complete the case if he dies. The story from then on would be somewhat similiar to the game as is, but this time the different murders are all done by the cult as part of some grand ritual to prepare the arrival of the bug spirits. That way the first half of the game would actually be related to the second part of the game.