Part Two: The Parenting Gurus of Nazi Germany | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
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Part Two: The Parenting Gurus of Nazi Germany | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
This week Robert introduces Margaret and the audience to Johanna Harer, the chief Momfluencer of Nazi Germany, whose pop science parenting book was endorsed by Hitler himself. During what historians refer to as his "Oprah period".
Original Air Date: May 9, 2024
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There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
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Hearing somebody call children "tyrants" kinda strikes a different chord with me after reading that bit from Kristi Noem's book. What is it about people who hate kids working in child-care?
Most of them don't start out hating kids. Sure some of them do but most of them developed their hatred for children over time from having to look after them. Especially if the kids you are looking after are not related to you or each other.
There are some people who consider anything other than perfect obedience to their wishes a form of tyranny of them.
Given the amount of people who work in mental healthcare and say terrible shit about their patients, not to mention the amount of 'special needs' parents and teachers who casually say terrible shit about their kids/students... It sucks, but comes as no surprise (unfortunately).
Preconceived cognitive biases persist against all kinds of evidence, proximity, and lived experience (especially when they're culturally reinforced).
@@FakeSchrodingersCat I think for some people it's that (and especially I'm sure it can be that for women and people raised as women; you're supposed to like children, so you kind of assume you do and end up in a childcare-focused career you don't really like; for the same reasons other women have kids despite not really liking kids or wanting to have kids that much).
But I think a lot of it can also come from how badly-compensated and undervalued those careers and skills are. I think this ruins a lot of teachers, for example. It's hard to keep enjoying a career you depend on for money and thus feel pressured to keep doing, AND that you basically get punished by society for doing, AND that requires a lot of self-care and a strong support system that you often don't actually have/don't get the chance to perform.
And tbh I also think some people go into childcare professions because they have strong opinions about the right way to do it and the way children Should Be (TM); and they're often wrong.
@@FakeSchrodingersCat I think a good mark of a person is if they hate the children, or the parents who are in a lot cases the real problem..
Also some in a field they care want power, like nurses can be great or, just not suited, or like power over people. Child education has that group probably too.
I love how robert never gets tired of telling that fucking story about the dad eating the egg. It's at least the third time I've heard him say it lmao. It's endearing.
It's really funny every time he says it, then says "this is why dads shouldn't eat eggs" because my dad wouldn't even eat anything with eggs in it, and is the only person in my family who won't. My dad is the exact opposite of German egg dad
Clearly you don't appreciate eggs.
@@rustomkanishka i eat like 5 eggs a day. Eggs are amazing. I just think german egg dad is hilarious
@@nickscurvy8635 you're talking to a bawa from India.
Gotta pump those numbers up, son 😂
@@rustomkanishka how many eggs do i need to eat to be on ur level :(
Man, that part at the end where Johanna's daughter talks about only being able to see Johanna as her actual mother when she was old and helpless made me cry a little. Damn.
As the parent of a child, I can definitively say hugging them and telling them you love them multiple times everyday leads to better outcomes. I've seen the alternative and it makes me shudder.
And while ther should be set boundaries, never say a child you dont love them.
Also communicate and bloody , yeah what parent would not have a trusting relationship that they can trust them if they mess up to not abuse them :(
Also if its fake trying, ther could be "of course, can you explain what exactly hurts you in detail, till they back off maybe?! XD, ok just do it soft. i imagine if. I think trolling children there fair is, ok ethical trollinbg children can if its not hurting trust in safety to counter , ok manipulate ethical without violating trust?
And igf its about heavy being aproviate honest , is good.
And do be a good example and talk about it and answer and talk if you are understandibly hypocritical, but try to be a good rolemodel, rather than just telling. i guess.
Like most is about communication, trust and earning respect by acting respectable and using force as rare last resort, ever.
my grandmother offered the book to me mum. She was appalled by it and gave us love and affection, really dodged a bullet.
My father was raised according to that book, he can't build lasting relationships. It's only when his mother- my grandmother- started to have dementia that she told him she does love him. It took 87 years for that.
I took a naval engineering course from a sub officer. He related that one of the worst cruises they had was when an admiral ordered them to cruise underwater with no contact from an exercise to port two weeks away. It was terrible because they had a water casualty which meant no showers, on top of a substandard AC.
So yeah they do just sometimes tell them to go underwater for a long time just cause.
I'm trying to do logic math in my head of like, is this better or worse than solitary confinement? And I think I've decided it's equally as bad, on the one hand you have next to no privacy in claustrophobic and otherwise stressful living conditions, but on the other hand, at least you have companions to complain/joke/commiserate with.
Either way, couldn't be me
I have been listening since day one. I've worked through the 5 stages of grief by episode 100. I know what I signed up for. YET I was not prepared to hear Robert talk about a Nazi parenting regime that perfectly described my entire childhood. flashbacks are fun. "researchers don't know how this parenting advice affects children" well I can tell you exactly how that goes
The amount of this that was in the parenting books my parents were following...
Regarding how growing up during a war intersects with Johanna's teachings, I feel like the situation probably made kids less inclined to rebel against it. Not entirely so, but to a degree that there's the described refusal to admit conflict with the parent. A kid who is essentially raised to be a supersoldier who grows up in a reasonably safe environment probably will notice discrepancies between the world their caregiver is raising them for and the world as they observe it. That leads to inconvenient things like "self reflection" and "thinking" and leads to the kid thinking, "Maybe my parents were wrong to do what they did".
If you raise a supersoldier kid in a WWII environment though, it seems likelier they'd view their upbringing as justified. Even if they felt hurt or wronged, there's a rationalization of, "My parents were just doing what's best".
Not a psychiatrist, just my two cents.
Junker is pronounced "Yoonker" btw
5:10 "You can't execute your entire family legally anymore. Because of woke"
"it was the best of times.................................................................. it was the BLURST OF TIMES??!?!!?!?!"
I really think it makes sense that a lot of conservative women who are Not empathetic by nature have kids and grow resentful. To raise happy/healthy kids requires so much patience, emotional intelligence, and a capacity to care for something that is separate from yourself (which is inherently discouraged by the frightened individualistic alt right mindset). What’s sad is that they take out their unhappiness on the children instead of realizing that they should never have felt so much pressure to have kids in the first place. There’s an idea that “women” all have an innate disposition to motherhood, when that’s simply not true. Being born with a vagina doesn’t automatically qualify someone as a good mother. Lots of terrible moms would probably be at least marginally less shitty if they had known themselves well enough to never have kids.
There's always a fucking Schlafly.
Assfly
shoutout to margaret for saying not to tell your kid "you're just doing that for attention!" when they fake-cry so that they stop being able to cry in front of other people ever. that one happened to me as a kid i can confirm it sucked
That part at the end with her mother hugging her to get on the americans good side reminds me of Steve Jobs saying the Apple Lisa was named after his daughter just to impress Bono.
Wow, if you don't give your infant any affection and you torture it by strapping it down to the bed, it's more likely to die and your country develops a high infant mortality rate? You don't say.
the high infant mortality rate happened way earlier than that. the rate dropped significantly in the 19th century.
33:40 Given that Harer lived into the 80s, I wonder what her response to the findings of Harry Harlow's social isolation experiments involving infant Rhesus Monkeys was. Harlow found that isolating Rhesus Monkeys after they were born for several months led to them becoming deeply disturbed and destructive. Further, he found that infant Rhesus monkeys when presented with either wire simulacrum of their mother (which provided milk) and a cloth dummy (which didn't), the infant would always pick the fabric doll over the wire mesh one.
So she considered her late husband a coward for "visiting the sea side," so... What did she think about her leader?
33:15 i swear my mother read her books, she felt the same way. she didnt even hold us when we were being fed, just propped up a pillow to rest the bottle on, letting it drink into our ears, it was awful. i dont think i would have survived without my dad or my grandma.
Hitler being good for a 8th grade painter makes a ton of sense - that's about where he stopped applying himself to anything. Supremely lazy guy. Not that being industrious as such is the greatest of qualities, but Hitler did absolutely nothing until he "found politics" and was content to live off others.
I mean that he gave up after going to an elite school with really great standards and was denied, dah, she was decent and could have gone to other educations, not give up afte rbeing denied with one of europes most famou elite art colleges.
He easy could have taken that, yeah maybe i am not the greatest and maybe i have to just go not to one off the most famous institutions to study art. ,
not , oh no how could that elite institution deny me for not being , that brilliant. but fine. grr jews.
Like anywhere you have to take criticism and artists become so trhrough feedback, practice and improving and a bit talent i guess, but most is looots of practice and like all in life , failing.
Hitler could have become a perfectly fine not too impressive but fine artists probably werent it for his weird narsicism?!
He used to customarily sleep until noon when he was Fuhrer
Now I realises where this is going I'm very sad about the next episodes.
This show is breaking my brain but the clear intro is "whats Petting my Files"
Thanks, that was a great two-parter. She met her end the way I kinda expected, still cared for by those she abused and unrepentant to the end.
oh god. does the next episode have something to do with Josef Fritzl?
Those bastards
"Rome never stopped when they should have stopped! That's what made them roam!"
In American you break the mold, in Nazi Germany, the mold breaks you
There's also a DS9 episode that has that same direct plot
I study with so many people that work at TKMS and its interesting to talk to them and try to gather infos that seem trivial to them 😂
I am in the beginning of the episode, but I hope they talk about how these parenting techniques fell out of fashion
Some people act like cartoon villains. It's incredible
Robert mostly saying Harer the way a New Yorker would say horror, then switching to hair-err at times threw me off.
33:09
Why does that sound familiar💀 . . .
I spent a good 6 years on a submarine haha
YOONKERS, not junk-ers
RE: the nazis being radical.
Robert is right the nazis where radical and they where also revolutionaries and modernizers, as in they liked modernism, thats key to understand them but people dont want to admit it because they think those are inherelently good things (for some reason) same as when people say Stalin wasn't a communist because he was so tyranical, those are independent clauses!
they liked contemporary technology, but they were in fact anti-modernist
Except, Stalin was definitionally not a communist
@@simoneidson21 He carried out a plan of land collectivization that was to the left of every single member of the politburo
@@bobbie3713 That isn’t communism. Also, I don’t care, because it didn’t work. Communism can’t have a state
imagine thinking someone who went against every basic bit of an ideology is still part of that ideology.
also, nazis were explicitly anti-modernist.
People all over the world kiss each other platonically and non-sexually on the lips, and lots of kids grew up kissing various family members on the lips (in addition to cheeks, foreheads, or whatever).
It's seen as weird and perverted nowadays (and I was born in the early 1990s, so when I say "nowadays" that's the relatively brief range of time I'm talking about), but it's not.
(Like it's fine if you didn't grow up doing it or just aren't personally comfortable with it; it's a pretty subjective/individualized thing whether you're personally comfortable with it or not, like any other form of affectionate touch. But it's not some automatic red flag, or form of child abuse, all on its own.
(Idk this is just some weird, rare but also widespread, proto-QAnon talking point that I'm tired of hearing, especially from otherwise sane people. It's like some kind of weird puritan Tumblr discourse that escaped to the rest of the internet and got adopted.)
Kissing relatives on the lips was only ever weird for me because my mother and I had no idea how to function as child-and-parent. So, we'd go to greet each other, get awkward, fail at cheek kissing, and end up on lips. Took me a hot minute to get out of it just appearing weird in general lol.
I know, next week otto muehl will come up somehow, with his creepy commune that , would fit perfectly in that topic.
My mother used a similar child rearing style. I guess that might be why I like submarines so much.
Wish I was joking...
This is what happens when people reject dialectical materialism, comrades!
This is part 3 in this series
ruclips.net/video/e_nGzYu06N0/видео.html
I might be somewhat wrong about it, but Prussian-Bavarian animosity runs as late as WW1 POW camps.
Everything I've seen was anecdotal and from the British side, mostly mentioned the Saxons doing shit like shouting over when the Prussians were planning to attack or getting pissed when the Prussians shot up a Christmas dinner and football truce.
MF SEA QUEST!!!!
Robert's telling the egg story again
Hey, you make the same pronounciation error for Völkischer Beobachter as the narrator of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. "Beo-bachter" instead of "Be-O-bachter"
I mean he pronounces essentially everything wrong. that one was actually closer to the correct pronounciation than most other german words and names they pronounce
now we know there can be pedophobes out there as well
"Romans never stopped when they should have" I dont know, they never got invaded by Carthage after the 3rd punic war.
edit: whoops i forgot which war was the salting and burning one
Love from a Shark3ozero and Vaush fan
sorry but some of the historic context at the beginning is VERY bad. Prussia is mostly towards the east, most of old prussia is poland today.
the Junkers did not hste Hitler, they were amongst his biggest supporters. sure, a few ofthem disliked him for class reasons but it was literally a Junker who made Hitler chancelor.
prussia is where the NSDAP got the most votes, with the exception of small parts of bavaria.
one of the reasons Hitler was able to do what he did is exactly that the old Wehrmacht officers (most of them Junkers) supported him.
the idea that prussian militarism was opposed to nazis is literally a post war far right german propaganda lie. it's plain and simply not true at all. it's literally the part of the country he had the least resistance in.
I'm sure you didn't have bad intent. but you completely fell for a propaganda lie.
also: there is NO damn way a Junker couldn't afford eggs for his children. Junkers were essentially lower nobility. they owned massive stretches of land and had farmers working them for them. they were generally very wealthy.