Lone Survivor and the Failed Operation Red Wings | What Really Happened?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- The book and movie Lone Survivor put Navy SEALs and Operation Red Wings in the national spotlight. Although portrayed as a Navy SEAL mission, Red Wings was a Marine Corps operation that brought in the SEALs to secure the air assets they requested. The Marines cautioned the 4 man Navy SEAL reconnaissance element that they should bring more manpower but were ignored.
Ed Darack wrote the book Victory Point which focuses on Operation Red Wings and Whalers. Ed has continued to investigate the events that transpired during the operation and follow-on actions. His work as an embedded writer also covers the shoot down of Extortion 17.
Support the show
/ formeractionguys
jcramergraphics.com
ANGLICOshop.com
Ed's Website
www.darack.com/books/
00:00:00 Intro | Operation Red Wings Background
00:02:52 Bringing in SOCOM Assets
00:07:07 Prepping the LZs
00:09:01 Comm Issues
00:12:54 Quick Reaction Force | C2 Issues
00:18:56 Turbine 33 Down
00:20:08 Where Did You Get This Info?
00:25:23 The Video
Hey guys, I just realized that I made an editing mistake and left my last podcast guest's Instagram account on the screen. Definitely check out @financial.enabler on Instagram, but Ed Darack's IG is @eddarack. Give him a follow as well and check out his book!
2:16 😅😊
I thought that seemed a little funny.
The Marines had planned & executed this exact mission before and knew what they were doing. All the units were fully integrated, the command & control was pretty straight forward. It was arrogance on part of that Navy SEAL command that created the communication problems & the disjointed response. I guess they never learned from the Paitilla Airport disaster in Panama where they took over a mission that should have been handled by more conventional Ranger units with, a straight forward assault that they practice for all the time. They keep making the same mistakes over & over again, and then have to spin it & hand out unearned medals to hide the fact that they screwed-up.
100% spot on.
Marines didn't understand why you wouldn't go in on foot, they somehow knew fast roping in may give you away
There's 2 huge reasons for the SEALs continually screwing up due to feats of ego.
Firstly, there is no requirement for combat training or experience prior to BUD/S. You can enlist in the Navy on a contract to go to BUD/S immediately after recruit training, and enlist at 17. Compare to USMC or US Army special forces standards where there are requirements for rank and qualifications prior to being eligible for special forces selection. You'd have to graduate boot camp and attend several other combat related training courses just to qualify for SFAS, whereas a recent high school graduate can attend Navy recruit training and then be sent to BUD/S and then to Parachute Jump School, and then to SEAL Qualification Training which would be the first tactical and combat focused training a prospective SEAL would get.
This means SEALs have a relatively low combat experience level (as compared to line units). Iraq and Afghanistan had heated periods where US Army and Marine line units were getting into contact every day, whereas special forces units typically have to wait for their mission set to come up or perform recon type missions that avoid combat (such as Red Wings).
The result is the SEALs planning their share of Red Wings had little tactical experience whereas the Marines that had initially planned the operation had done so many times. IIRC only Luttrell had a prior combat deployment of the 4 SEALs involved in Lone Survivor. Axelson and Dietz were on their first combat deployment in Afghanistan in 2005, and Murphy's prior deployments were to Qatar and Jordan.
They just didn't have the experience or the maturity to conduct the operation, as demonstrated by the SEALs making demands of their part in the operation if any of their assets were used.
Second, only about 10% of recruits that enlist in the Navy on a SEAL contract actually make it to the teams. The rest fail at some point during training. And if you enter the Navy on a SEAL contract and fail training you revert to an open contract and the Navy can place you wherever they want. This is very important to the Navy because they have a wide variety of technical jobs that are necessary but difficult to fill and the Navy is having issues with manpower shortages. The biggest service the Navy SEALs provide to the Navy is being a source of recruits for undermanned jobs. Because of that the Navy is incentivised to glorify Naval Special Warfare and make them out to be the heroes to attract recruits, similar to the USAF glorifying their fighter pilots despite that being the minority of jobs they have to offer.
You are 100% correct
@@hunterkiller232134well the Army and Marines never made mistakes right? I’ll say this the marines have made way more mistakes then the SEALS. Just stop it. I respect all our military branches.
So ego and lack of emotional control caused failure…imagine that! Thanks for the vid!
Marcus was found with full mags and no Taliban bodies were found.....that should tell you exactly what really happened
And his body supposedly wasn’t riddled with bullets and ragged by falling off cliffs. He didn’t crawl 7 miles. The antihero podcast on this is great!
Drone video knows what happened and so does Marcus.
There is a predator drone feed of marcus running. This is worse than finding out santa wasn't real when I was a kid.
Yeah well when people are trying to kill you and never experienced you either fight or run. They ran. It happens. But yeah he got rich over pure cowardice not a surprise in America. Pieces of shit usually get the edge in this world anyways.
The worst part is hearing about axelson being alive for a week before dying by himself
I bought Luttrell's book when it came out. After learning more about the incident, I threw the book away.
I had the autographed copy.......into the fire.
I wish that I didn’t spend money on the movie.
@@Maugwa I think even marcus doesn't remember correctly. I mean after something traumatic like that his memory is probably foggy. Either way that mission was doomed from the start. 4 navy seals going into enemy insurgent stronghold wasn't gonna end well
@@Maugwa I heard they don't do four man teams anymore because of that
@@jonathanramos8414he knows he lied
On the Antihero podcast episode 60, they mentioned that it wasn't an RPG that took out the MH-47. At about an hour and 7 min they mentioned that it was an SA-7 missile, which was much more advanced and designed to take out targets like helicopters. That changes the narrative from bad luck to terrible planning.
Yeah, I heard that too. That's pretty wild.
@@FormerActionGuys SA-7....AKA Strela-2....like a stinger.
As a former Marine aerial gunner in CH-53E’s in OIF, the SA-7 is a nasty weapon system. If they get you locked with that you’re going to have a bad day.
That’s what took out a CH-46 from HMM-364, call sign Morphine 12. That was our 3rd MAW casevac unit on my deployment in 2006-07. That killed 7 of our guys.
Semper Fi🇺🇸
exactly what was used@@MDR-hn2yz
As a a former MH-47D crew member who actually flew on 146 and knew nearly everyone killed, the amount of ASE on our birds can defeat ALL known anti air systems. It was an RPG-7. Those rockets took out most of the aircraft we lost.
The fog of war is a real thing, but the insertions of those 4 men was heard all over that mountain
Yeah they were made before even landing ,unfortunately, the goat herders regardless if they killed them or not they would of only bought a little time or maybe not even a difference
But LT Mike Murphy would of never Ever even though Of doing that
I don't care how elite you are. 4 seals against 20 or 30 well armed insurgents who have the high ground? Disaster waiting to happen
@@m4a1_delta66I was listening to another podcast with a former SEAL from that era who was actually confused as to why they didn’t follow SOP which was to zip tie the goat herders and exfil with the idea being they would obviously get out and/or make it back eventually but you would buy valuable time.
The human brain is a malleable entity and I try to give Lutrell the benefit of the doubt. It’s not unheard of for people to misremember crazy events like that, especially with adrenaline pumping. Your mind is too tunnel visioned and too busy to get an accurate recording and often the gaps you fill are bigger than the actual concrete memories themselves.
Without Hollywood or video games, I don’t think anyone would judge 4 guys going against 8 with higher terrain, crew-served weapons, knowledge of the land, and element of surprise. It sounds like serious mistakes were made in planning/preparation, but never in a million years would I claim to have faired better on that mountain once the chips started falling.
Whack um they say
They did decoy drops on other mountains but that wouldn't matter . Maybe that bought them a few hours.
Wait, so you mean Seals lied at the expense of Marines in order to cover for their mistakes and then to make money?! Thats like almost never happened in the GWOT
Not sure about Luttrell book but a few of the other "hero" stories had to be reviewed by the military prior to releasing. It's all just propaganda....just like everything to do with Afghanistan and Iraq and the entire war on terror, including the evidence that took us both places. The entire 20byears of Americans guarding poppy fields and looking the other way on human trafficking and honor killings and the regular and systematic killing of civilians was all.....bullshit
The truth behind this operation was, the operation should have never happened, the chief of that unit was advised by multiple people not to send his men into that mountain, based on the enemy size, and how contested it was with enemy, as well as the terrain. The terrain was horrible.
Same with battle of takagar
Acid rage u have no more proof that ur facts are correct than the official story. U just choose to believe the story that makes them look bad. U really think the bad guys are gunna just tell u the real truth lol obviously they want to make themselves look badass and make America look bad. End of the day the details don't matter. They went in to do a mission. They were compromised and many seals lost their lives.
virtually no evidence exist that prove the helo insert was what compromised the team. Helos were used all the time. Plus in op whalers the STA team walked in and still got ambushed just like the SEALs in the same general area. So not even infiltration on foot was effective enough to sneak by shahs paid informants, which he no doubt had plenty.@@acidrage5206
You mean like the 8 guys Shaw had?
Yea, because in war terrain is always perfect! LMMFAO! CLOWN!
I was part of the Marine QRF Element (my whole platoon) mentioned at 12:55. 2/3 G Co, I think we were 1st platoon at the time? Our Platoon LT gave us a quick speech about how "Hell has jsut opened it's mouth, gents, and we're going in." Very absurdly dramatic but good on you Lt!
Man we were ready in 5-7 minutes, staged with gear on the flight line.
And we were told to stand fast as SOCOM wanted to QRF it.
So we sat there for hours waiting for SOCOM to just go, or in case SOCOM changed their minds and would let us go.
The entire time our LT was relaying SITREPs to us while the SEALs and helo crew were getting killed.
And we had to just sit there staring at the two empty 160th chinooks waiting to see them load up with the SOCOM QRF element. Took them hours and hours and we were ready to go the entire time.
We never even got sent. But we sat there for almost an entire day waiting, just in case we were allowed to be useful.
We just fell back to our original clearing element role for the actual op the next day.
There was a c130 overhead watching at some point, relaying visual info. While we were on the flight line waiting, our LT started relaying us info from that, via the COC/TOC. I want to say that when the 2nd helo got shot down, that crew is the one that got surrounded by many many taliban and gunned down one by one. I remember him relaying info like "2 more KIA...", "20 more enemy forces surrounding crash...", "3 remain alive on-site at crash...", and so on. But I could be misremembering what he was referencing, it was a long time ago now.
That's intense man. Nothing worse than feeling helpless when something is going down.
So you got a play by play of a second aircraft getting shot down and the crew getting executed. Yet, we only lost one helicopter and the crew died on impact in a fireball. Curious that you have so much more ISR info. I mean I spoke with both the lead investigators of the crash and the S2 chief to watch whatever streams they had and noting you mention was ever seen by anyone I know in the spec ops community.
Is it possible you are privy to a coverup? I guess.
it was a big pissing contest going on with tf devil commander and jsoc command on securing the site , jsoc started bringing in seals from germany and 2-75 why had to wait 2 days . they was going at it on the net. u guys shoulda rolled but soar wouldnt fly anyone unless they fell under spec op command
Seems to me that every time we have a Medal of Honor, or something over-the-top, tragic (as of this century, anyway).... It almost always revolves around our military brass not have a clue as to WHAT.....THE......F**K they're doing. Incompetence, negligence, or just not giving a sh!t. Like they're all sitting in a room going, let's see what happens when we put them in THIS scenario, with a plate of food in their hands.
There was a second chopper shot down?
Thank you for posting this, a couple of the heroes that were KIA were stationed here in Va. You're clear step by step break down of all of this is so clear for a non military veteran like myself!! Thanks again for posting this, and you've just earned a new subscriber!! Thank you for your service brother. 🙏🏾
SEALs are awesome at what they are designed for. The problem is they sometimes believe their own hype. Mission planning and contingency planning is key. I would love to have a Marine Infantry Unit on call if my SEALs got in trouble. To ignore a unit that had been operating in the AO is just plain arrogance. God bless all the warriors that lost their lives.
Yeah that thing even happened here in Philippines maybe you heard of the 44 police commandos who were massacred almost a decade ago
As a former Force Recon Marine turned National Guard MEDEVAC pilot turned Apache pilot let me thank you for the Shout Out to those of us flying in the Guard. I was privileged to have e flow the DUSTOFF bird into Mosul to evacuate SSG Patrick Mahoney of MARSOC. Army pilots have the back of the ground forces!
S/F, ABY, WIHYW
Sounds like a helluva career
@@FormerActionGuyshope you check out my book when becomes available there Devil!
@@FormerActionGuys Sounds like a good candidate to have on as a guest
@@FormerActionGuysiv had a Hella of a career myself.........................on cod,battlefield, counter strike, medal of honor, ghost recon, rainbow six, doom, wolfenstein, halo, and gears of war 😂
S/H
Don't forget to mention that comms issues were also whispered to have been due to the monitors playing murder ball instead of manning the communication link.
ANGLICO guys were awesome when i was in the Marines. They taught us how to make improvised directional antennas out of com wire. They were able to communicate with Camp Lejuene from Vieques while doing naval gun and aircraft fire mission training.
I was in 2nd Recon Bn Lejuene from 91-95. We went to Vieques to do naval gun fire. Got in position, could see the ship, contacted the ship, ship cancelled the op. I had spent the day before getting a nice sunburn on my back which added to the fun! LOL.
I was a young Lance Corporal assigned to the USS IOWA MARDET and got the lucky opportunity to get secondary training in calling in naval guns, AC 130’s, and using the modular laser designater to direct laser guided bombs onto targets from A 6 Intruders. Trained with ANGLICO, Rangers, 82 Airborne, and Marines from 10th Marines. It was an awesome 3 days and nights at the range. I was very lucky to o be there since I was just a lowly 0311. Circa March 1987.
I was a scout in the Army and got the opportunity to work with ANGLICO. Super sharp and professional.
@@dbohler8640 Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company. Yes, great guys.
@@SteveStarcher you were at the beach??? 2d Recon then Force at FC fall of 96 through 2000. We probably know some of the same bros! Did the same comm shots from Vieques OP and all points in between lol! SF🤘🏻
Im a retired Marine artillery operations chief. Just to clear up a statement about Rocket Assisted Projectile (RAP) rounds vs. conventional, the CEP is larger when firing RAP vs a conventional round. Meaning, there is a larger error when firing a rap round at its max range vs firing a regular HE or DPICM round under 18 klicks.
That's what I thought! Thanks for confirming.
Shot over Gunny
Yeah marcus sure told one hell of a little story there. I highly recommend victory point. Excellent book
Marcus told the story he was ordered to tell. Would love to see his original AAR with his command.
@@warweaponx6629I'd bet it's filed under "Burn Before Reading" just saying.
V point don't explain what really happened..he barely touched the fire fight
Thank you for covering this. I bought multiple copies of Ed’s book after reading it just to hand to friends so they would learn the truth.
It's really a good book. So good, one of my friends stole my copy lol
So...Navy Seal's egos caused all of this???
💯
nope.
Nothing new
seals are most effective US specops at covering up the fuckups of seals
@@dsmoningtonit's a gift
Also the dallas stars are a hockey team which leads to the redwings being the detroit redwings. Small point that changes nothing lol
yeah, there was a small push between red wings and whalers, which we called Pittsburg. (Penguins). We did a lot of stuff at night during that one.
@@humphet
U mean "shitburg" 2016 crybaby Crosby complained and Nashville had two goals withdrawn and lost the cup. I have no respect for the pens
I remember reading Ed’s breakdown of RedWings in the gazette(?) in like 2010-11(?), and being like..:”oh. Well that’s different”
Definitely different
So many lives lost for absolutely no reason at all
I told them not to go but don't listen to me . I am not on the TV , I do not feel sorry for them . 911 was inside Job
The thing I remember most about the Lone Survivor book was being stunned that the SEALs stayed on site after they were spotted by the goat herders. I don't want to arm chair general this, but I remember thinking, that's it; they're compromised, it's time to go. I used to do reconnaissance in the Canadian Army Reserve and under those circumstances, while it is your call to stick around, the smart play is to admit you're blown and you back off the target or abort the mission altogether. You can always try again later, but sticking around risks having to fight your way off a mountain with an unknown number of OPFOR who know the terrain better than you - which is exactly what happened. It's a miracle any US personnel survived that battle.
The other thing that confused me about the whole story in Lone Survivor was the mission with only 4 SEALs on it. I remember thinking - "is that really the right number of guys for this kind of mission?". I don't know how much capability 4 SEALs bring, but if the number of enemy is unknown, and you might be ordered to capture this HVT in mountainous terrain... what was the plan? BTF the guy to the ground, and then carry him over the mountain in cuffs and hope you never get shot at? Maybe I misunderstand the mission parameters, but it just didn't seem feasible. Maybe the plan was to call in the Marines once the HVT was spotted, and then bring in like a platoon of guys to do the capture. If the plan was just to snipe the HVT, I would wonder how you confirm the kill without risking a fire fight. I digress.
I don't want to disparage the dead or the SF, I respect the community and what they do immensely. I just never understood the call to stay on target or go back to the OP after you're blown. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
Well it is said the ambush happened minutes after the goat herders were released, which can mean two things. One being that obviously the concept of time during such a traumatic event might have been a little fuzzy.
But the most likely one is that the Taliban already knew they were there and were simply waiting for the herders to be released.
Which is most likely because:
• Someone definitely heard the chopper that dropped them off.
• They cut the rope the SEALS descended from, leaving evidence of a drop as well as an indication of which direction they went.
• The SEALS hiked around for 7 hours, that's a long time period in which they definitely could've been spotted.
Sadly the book isn't a good source of information since a lot of it has been proven false since then by reports as well as camera footage of the Taliban who filmed the attack.
Very good points,@@CheeseRunner . Thanks for taking the time. :)
I agree the time frame is fuzzy, and if I recall correctly, even though they choppered in at night, they had to do 3 landings where the SEALS got off at one of them - this is standard to conceal your actual position in a situation where the OPFOR hear you/see your chopper coming.
However, if they cut the rope, it partially negates the advantage of landing three times because if someone sees the rope they know where you dropped off and may be able to pick up your trail.
So yeah... it could be that they were spotted earlier or at least the chopper was heard in the infiltration portion of the mission. All of those are inherent risks in the missions the SEALs had anyway, so you're probably right... it might not have been the goat herds who spotted the SEALs (although they almost certainly reported the position to the local OPFOR), it could have been they were compromised before then without knowing it.
I won't blame Marcus Luttrel's memory either - it's bound to be fuzzy after that ordeal.
Well, if it was just a mission to take the guy out using a sniper, I can understand using a small 4 man element. That does make sense, and snipers do usually operate in very small teams like that. But if that was the case, then they should have sent in a dedicated sniper team that does those kinds of missions. Marcus Luttrell was trained as the team's sniper, but they were not a sniper team. But it's been pretty clearly confirmed that their mission was to "capture or kill". And in that case, it does seem pretty odd, and to be honest, pretty foolish, to send just 4 guys for that. I also wonder why they stayed on target as well. But as someone else said, the attack supposedly came right after they released the goat herders, and they could have been made even before then without realizing it.
@@mattjack3983they weren't there to capture or kill Shah. They were there to confirm that he was in the target area. Theirs was the initial phase of Operation Red Wings.
The original USMC plan called for a scout sniper team to walk to their objective overnight days prior, and when their recon was concluded helicopters would bring in more Marines to cordon off and search the area. The Marines wanted to borrow the special operations aviation assets but got told having SEALs conduct the recon was the price.
So a 4 man SEAL team was used for the recon and chose to helicopter in, which compromised them.
@@mattjack3983 I agree - the team certainly wasn't organized as a sniper team - even if they had a sniper on the team. And based on your and @CheeseRunner's comments it sounds far more likely they were made before the goat herders were released.
This is exactly what I am
looking for when researching about incidents like Gothic Serpent, 13 Hours in Benghazi or Red Wings. There is always some mid level decision(s) made by people who you wouldnt know they exist in the first place! I will buy his book and read it! Thanks for the interview!
The FAG podcast is without a doubt one of the best on youtube. You guys provide info that most would never know without you presence on youtube. Great interview and I appreciate the work you guys do
I really appreciate that! Help us spread the word 🤘🏼
Feel like it's gonna fuck with the optics if ya'll make this acronym a recurring thing. lmao
😂
Fantastic content thanks guys
Much appreciated!
They were hit with heavy machine guns, Deitz was hit instantly, Axe went one way, Luttrell went the other and Murph was trying to get comms. The Navy decided to use Luttrell to their own ends and now he ends up with egg on his face and a tarnished reputation.
Victory Point is a phenomenal read/listen.. I bought it on Audible and binged it in 3 days. Really really good detailed accounts of some major combat operations..
No one shouts out Marine Infantry! Everybody wants to be Special Forces… Conventional Forces wind up saving Forward elements ALL THE TIME!!!
Check today's video!
The Marine Corps are known for their infantry/grunts. The majority of the civilians assume that if you're in the Marine Corps then you're in the frontline duking it out.
Comms, air support, indirect fire plan, knowledge of terrain, medevac site, QRF element on call. There are so many failure points.
You’ll never meet anyone hating on you from above.
The real story destroyed for me the mythology of special forces being supersoldiers. Most depictions are fictional and show spec guys as one man armies killing hundreds of regulars with ease
Blame Hollywood. We're just people.
@@joemama69448 sure but some vets helped fuel the myth with their Walter Mitty tales.
Have you ever seen real combat footage? The U.S. special forces are excellent compared to the enemies. The bad guys can’t shoot at all
The only difference between a SOF and regular army is they will die before they quit
@@charlieb308 yeah there's like 8 guys. They found no dead enemies or evidence of such after the fight. Considering Marcus said there were 25 afterwards in the report but then claimed it was 200 is fucking hilarious.
I have a signed copy of Ed''s book. I don't remember if he was ever attached directly to anything I belonged to during the korengal stuff. I was with Golf. I don't remember him interacting with any of our platoons, but my buddies in Fox, Echo, and Whiskey, or H&S did. But, he is a bank, library, wealth, of knowledge. and we all knew that we had an embedded journalist somewhere with us. Everyone of us Marines gives him the respect he earned, especially humping in those mountains. Thanks again Ed for putting this all together. The maps, and photos really help.
I love radio talk! My thought, after reading Lone Survivor, was that once they could not reach the C-130 gunship overhead, they should have called for extraction, and not continued. Too much risk w/o comms. 4 guys with no air back up.
Very good interview. Would put 95% faith in his version. Minor mistakes don’t change underlying facts of of fubared movement from the get go.
Thanks for checking it out! He's definitely done his research.
This analysis is dead on. I've trained and rubbed elbows with SEALS in the Marines and in my stint in the Navy. SEALs are never trained in standard infantry tactics. Marines know how to plan missions and use overwhelming firepower and how to plan comms. SEALs culture is arrogance, but bullets don't care if you're a SMU or 0311. The mission should have been aborted at loss of comms.
Marcus himself even admitted to Anderson Cooper that he was a coward.
I watched the exact same live leak video you are talking about, you could identify Dietz by his torso tattoo… insane. Amazing interview and amazing insight.
I was at Blessing in 05 and Ed was awesome. Glad you have him on your podcast is this a preview for a longer interview? We learned how to use the 120 MMs when we landed at Blessing. Very similar to 60's just on steroids so it was not difficult. We had a very intelligent and skilled FDC.
This is a clip from our 2 hour convo! Check it out and let me know what you think 🤘🏼
I was at Jbad with Golf, and the Khyber Pass with 60's and 81's. We also were assisting the ANA on their Mortar systems, big and small. Semper Fi, brother.
@@FormerActionGuysloved this clip , good work , you also have a great audience it seams just scrolling thru answered a few questions I had , a lot of knowledgeable people on topic is a good sign of a good channel
There are many requests through the freedom of information act for the drone footage. The drone footage apparently is going to show Lattrell running away .
I didn't know that definitely keep a eye out fingers crossed it'll be released
The predator feed showed Marcus running away the entire time. But the navy covered that up and turned that coward into a hero and made him millions.
@@terrencegibbons3351 I wish they could release the footage I wouldn't be surprised he looks like a liar
i know this is a stupid question, and maybe not possible in 2005, but the military couldn’t use like some sort of ‘live’ drone footage for tracking the SEALs location and maybe even comms?
2/3 was my unit. Love the FAG podcast thanks for sharing.
Thanks for checking it out 🤘🏼
It’s a shame that the truth wasn’t told. I don’t know how some folks can live either themselves.
I was a 31c back in 1987, i had a RATT rig with 50,000 WATT capable radio
Sounds legit. The radios we're talking about are equivalent to walkie-talkies. Definitely not a setup like a RATT rig
I graduated Brem's Barracks as a 31C in '87. Enlisted in '85 as 54E NBC warfare specialist; then went to communications. Operated a VSC-2 in a Chevy Blazer on the ground invasion in first Gulf War. Got out in '95 just after they switched to MSE digital.
The "lucky shot" should really be known as the "greatest shot anyone has ever heard of". Shooting a helicopter engine out with an RPG is almost impossible not "lucky". Shooting a helicopter engine out with a heat-seeking device makes more sense than being "lucky".
Is the next part of this video available?
It is! Check out the channel page for all the videos but here's the full interview
ruclips.net/video/t1xk8pDk8Bc/видео.htmlsi=uNNTjuCgDhtSdQT4
Have Marcus on your show and ask him about all this, please.
He would NEVER do that.
From the research that I've done, it sounds like the SEALs started a "our dicks are bigger than yours" with the Marines, via their commands. Rather than looking at what was best for a successful mission, the SEALs wanted in on the action. That, plus their inability to take recommendations into consideration due to their egos, got them into big trouble. Luttrell has said in his book that SEALs "dont seek out personal glory," yet thats EXACTLY what seems to be the case here. Am I close on my interpretation, or way off? Very good video! Now I'm going to read this guy's book.
Im a combat vet as well (Operation Desert Storm/Desert Shield, USAF, 62d Civil Engineering Sq, McChord AFB, '92-'96. Yeah, yeah, yeah...Chair Force. I hear it all the time, except us firefighters, EOD, PJ's, and Combat Controllers are always near the front line) and I was in northern Afghanistan as a civilian contractor from June 2011-2012. About a month at BAF, before going to FOBs Phoenix and Alamo for the remaining 11 months. I was at Phoenix when Extortion 17 was shot down. Anyway, I wanted to thank you for your service in the USMC. I do know that us USAF guys havent got shit on the Marines when it comes to operating under severe conditions, and sucking up whatever is thrown at you guys. I absolutely know and appreciate that. Glad you made it back in one piece.
Ive also recently seen the Taliban shot footage from 28 June 2005, and it shows both the bodies of Lt. Murphy and P.O. Dietz. Yes, one of the fighters sits on Lt. Murphy's chest for a pose while his buddy films him. They also do rifle thru his pockets, and remove his watch. P.O. Dietz looks to be laid out on a boulder, with his blouse open, revealing the tattoo on his ribcage/abdomen. He also has a moderate wound to his jaw, left side, and his boots have been removed, as were Lt. Murphy's. His right thumb, which Luttrell said in his book had been shot off, appears to be intact. Definitely a very hard video to watch, but I didnt witness any desecration to the bodies.
80-200 guys on that ridge I definitely do not buy. Even 50 seems like a huge stretch. Villages simply can't support that many fighters in a short amount of time. 10-20 fighters seems a bit more of a legit number to me. So many discrepancies in Luttrells book, its hard to know what you can or can't believe from his accounts.
The seals hot dogged a lot of ops and have been bailed out many times cause of it. Including ruuuning into marsoc units and asking for food and cold weather gear cause they packed light.
@@TJ_CrayonBeltFeeder I believe it. Absolutely believe it
I think there's a problem with SOF units sometimes when they don't have a clearly-defined role in a conflict, and at the same time buying into their own hype. Obviously this particular mission was planned for Marines and there was no reason SEALs had to be involved. But to some extent, SOF units have to continually justify their existence, so they lobby to get missions that might be perfectly suitable for conventional forces, if not more so. I think this is a particular problem for white side SEALs, who don't exactly have a doctrinal role in the way that Green Berets do, for example.
This can even be a problem for "tier one" units. During the early stages of the Falklands war, the SAS decided they wanted in on the recce phase of the operation to secure South Georgia, a remote arctic island about 800 miles away from the Falkland archipelago. The SBS were already going to conduct reconnaissance, so the SAS came up with their own plan, which involved landing on a glacier in the middle of severe weather. Senior officers and helicopter pilots told them that it was a terrible idea, and the task force commander basically said no thanks. So the SAS used a sat phone to contact the office of prime minister Thatcher, who was enamoured of the SAS after the Iranian embassy siege two years earlier. Thatcher told the commander to let them do it. Long story short, the SAS were unable to move in whiteout conditions, and two helicopters were lost after attempting to extract them Fortunately, everyone was eventually rescued.
To be blunt, I think Red Wings was a combination of inexperience, poor planning, and professional arrogance. It was a long time ago, so you'd like to think some lessons have been learned from it. Not least of which should be that nobody wins a straight-up gunfight against a numerically superior force without support. It doesn't matter if you're a Navy SEAL, or if there's 80 enemy or 8. I've wondered before if SEALs lack of infantry background leads to an under-appreciation of basic concepts like that.
I think there were big complaints from some SEALs that the unit is not unit of “silent professionals” but because more of an ego boost because of the popular culture surrounding them
I got the same vibe with the whole “you can’t have access to 160th SOAR unless SEALs are involved.”
So in actuality this seal team was like a JV squad new to war…
Yes they still use ACOGs for time being, look into XM157(and XM7 and XM250 are very likely the replacements for M4 and M249 respectively) which is ACOG replacement to go along with M7 and M250...
From what I understand, they have 120 mm mortar systems at a regimental or division level. One of my 0341s was able to use one once.
I used a Harris 117 and a 148 in Iraq for satcom including high performance waveform. Excellent radios. I viewed the 148 as a back up emergency radio. Also used a mbtr for satcom, but that was just to demonstrate that it could be done to some infantrymen.
Yeah they are great. But when fighting dudes in sandals that live in caves, encrypted comms just ain’t that important and in reality, there are a lot more potential failure points.
The information coming out about this operation here recently is wild like the fact that Murphy had to call the states to get ahold of the base because they were playing a game of football or something outside & wasn’t manning the radios/ communication center
so did they ever have bad radios and/or reception? because obviously was able to radio back to the states
This was the first taste of combat for the four SDV guys correct?
Well not sure, lone survivor book says it wasn't the 1st combat
I find it really hard to believe that SEALS didn’t have satellite radios in 2005. In 07 we had a satellite radio with every squad. There was no crazy antennas but you couldn’t use it moving or with the DUKES system on.
I still have my Challenge coin from this Op.
From which unit?
wtf were you with the army dogs? I was in the marine clearing element and i never got a cool coin
I was a FA guy; I can't even remember the nomenclature for the radios I used (small man portable to huge MLRS radios that spun up fans and junk). Dropping fill was always a possibility, that's why We could re-fill them. But, totally different battle space.
the taliban pov audio at 6:09 “marcus come back… MARCUS” chilling
Which video ? Only found the 30 min one of the aftermath
Many people think they hear English in the video but in reality it was only the foreign fighters yelling. I hear a faded "Allahu akbar "
I hear exactly the same, I still remember it," marcus come back, maaarkus"
I listened to the audio 10 times and didn’t hear that,
So what you’re saying is Marcus when the first shots were fired just ran and left his friends to die? Then later he injured himself to fake it so he could write a book and make money?
Good talk gents
Bought Ed’s book on Operation Red Wing and the Operation Whalers. Kelly Grisom was a bad ass Marine
They are hockey team names, Dallas stars, Detroit red wings
Was it actually an rpg “lucky shot” or was it an SA-7? I had heard there was warnings of SA-7’s in the area.
A lot of people talk shit about Marcus, and for good reason, but don't take into account that it's highly likely NSW/the Navy more or less told him the story they were going to tell and that he better stick to the story until he's in the ground.
Well If you can't stand up for the truth that shows what kind of a man U are. But all that money gave him a gold digger wife and kids 😂
More than anything, I feel for the guy. This was a messed up situation for anyone to be put in.
@@FormerActionGuys no doubt. Wouldn't wish it on my enemy
@@acidrage5206you're wrong about alot, grammar, spelling, history, but most of all this unwarranted ego you have being a brit is laughable. Put all this energy towards the Muslims pillaging your country and banging your women while you look on in fear.
@@acidrage5206you’re allowing yourself a whole lotta judgement for self admittedly not being military. Not a good look.
SEALs are great at what they do, these guys were an SDV unit. Their job was diving. Murphy had screwed up prior and had to redeem himself.
Dangerous mix when you have a unit thats not meant for the job, lead by a guy on a mission to clear his name.
Theres always nuance to everything, take a step back and observe, rather than blurting out your non military opinions and making yourself look like a fool.
I was at the PRT in Jalalabad that day. Almost got to go on one of the Marine Corps QRF flights that got turned back. They ended up taking a different platoon instead of mine. Initially it was literally "Get to the choppers", but they decided to take a specific platoon as the helos were spinning up. We got trucked up there to do the search and rescue side of it after that though. Crazy time. I ended up in Metin valley and got pretty close to the crash site from what I understood. Lots of air support on that operation. Crazy time.
I'd love to hear more if you're interested in being a guest. Shoot me an email jcramermedia@gmail.com
i watched it go down on the drones before they took our feed @@FormerActionGuys
they had all the air was platoon from 82nd pinned down on pakistan border near khost and could zero air
lol they had all the air was a platoon from 82nd in a big fire fight on the border on ht2911 and couldnt get any air support
it wasn't 400 people, it was 8, he said there at the end. Was that the size of the force the SEALs were fighting that he was referring to? I haven't read the book.
Based on the video recorded by the tallies/militia (conflicting reports on the combatants loyalties), it was certainly far closer to 8 than even 20 or 30.
@@BlyGuywas you there
lol do you actually think 8 men blind firing AK47s could take out a 4/5 man elite seal team
@@256NATO Why would the combatants with the far superior position on the high ground, with superior numbers and more firepower, including a machine gun, be blind firing on the Seals?
@@256NATO you should look up the definition of ambush lmao
@@256NATOthey had the high ground, had them surrounded by almost a complete 180° radius, knew their exact location upon ambush, had them pinned in a very steep valley that only they knew very well of, had double the men, and had superior fire power including machine guns and RPG’s. No 4 man team with semiautomatic rifles are winning that gunfight
Ahh. Some squid was jealous of the marines, sent his people in, they all died, mission failed, got it
I literally walked through the crash site in 2007 I was there with the 173rd chosen company I believe on rock avalanche they found one of the seals helmets and returned it to the family.
That was marcus Luttrels helmet they found apparently. It had a Texas star on it.
Was 173rd the company they made a documentary or movie about? Restrepo I think?
@@joshuawhite7515 yea restrepo the documentary was on battle company I was in chosen company that deployment
@@joshuawhite7515 and restrepo was actually a book as well well basically Sebastian junger was the guy reporter in the documentary and he wrote the book war which is about the same thing well if you read it the first three pages start off in a wounded soldiers room. At Walter reed well I’m that soldier But as for the documentary it’s all battle company.
@@joshuawhite7515 as for who’s helmet it was I’m not sure I never saw it and I sure as hell didn’t find it but I did walk through the crash site Such big mountains in that area
Every book and AAR I’ve read, along with all the documentaries I’ve seen have brought me to this conclusion. My opinion is when the gunfight started, Marcus simply ran for his life. You can even hear Lt. Mike Murphy yelling for Marcus to help on a Taliban produced video during the actual firefight. A few reasons why I believe this to be true; based on Mohammad Gulabs’ recollection, Luttrell had a full combat load when the former found him. Additionally, among the many injuries Luttrell claimed were being shot twice, suffering a broken back, having many facial injuries including a broken nose, both knees shredded, and biting his tongue in half. Yet when we see the photograph taken of Marcus while he was with Gulab, his face is virtually unblemished. Also, according to the Army Rangers who found him, Marcus walked right out with barely a hint of injury. Then there was Luttrell’s ridiculous claims of enemy fighters, starting with well over a hundred and eventually changing it to around 35. Gulab also called BS on this saying there weren’t even 35 fighters in all of Korengal Valley that day. In fact, after Gulab watched the film Lone Survivor during its premiere, he walked out and was like WTF was that?? That’s not what happened! Once Gulab started to refute Luttrell’s version, he was immediately shunned by the latter. Almost everything that Marcus claimed or what the movie showed ever fucking happened. Having said that, I have the utmost respect for our military personnel, their sacrifices made, and especially deploying to a combat theater. I’m also not really interested in shaming one of our own for running when fired upon. The big fuckin’ problem I have with all of this is someone making a substantial amount of “life changing money” off of this bull shit story! Like, how the fuck do you sleep at night?? As a Marine Corps Veteran, I realize the pay pretty much sucks and am not opposed to Veterans writing a book or selling a script to earn extra money for their families. However, to take a story stock full of falsities and fiction, but most importantly where fellow teammates were killed in combat, and continuously make shit loads of money off of this and the blood of your brothers, it’s like WTF man??!!! I do also believe the military brass pushed this narrative for their own reasons as well. The whole story was absolute, 100% bull shit! Lone Survivor is absolute fiction!! There is nothing but conspiracy and coverups regarding many incidents involving the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. Job Price, Pat Tillman, Roberts Ridge, Chris Kyle and so on.
There was only 8 Taliban on film in the video. Didn't sound like gunfire from more than single digit number of fighters.
what is the chris kyle conspiracy?
@@bkhavityoway23 Many of his bodies were unarmed non-combatants
I don’t know if it's widely known, but Luttrell's integrity problems predated this incident. The way he made it through the fourth week of first phase BUD/S ("Hell Week"), was by surreptitiously doing it as a tag-team with his identical twin brother Morgan, who also became a SEAL.
Though it was s common knowledge the chinook wasn't shot down by a rpg
A PRC 117G/117F is what you would have wanted to. I worked with Harris to present these RT’s to my battalion. Every RADIO drops fill. I’ve never seen it not happen. As a 0621/0311. If anything they should have used the handheld PRC-152. Never had a serious issue with a 117 radio as long as you knew how to shoot asthma, you had your fill, and you had your coms cheat sheet you were good. I might be dating myself here but did anyone use them MOTOROLA’S it was a handheld SINCGARS RT pc of crap we weren’t even supposed to use them AT ALL. They never worked and the tali could pick them up very easily
I remember the black Motorola radios used for inter-squad communications
I know I'm old. But damn- the 119 was phased out that long ago? I was one of the first Marines to learn the danged thing in field radio operator's course. We were also taught the PRC-77. Not like I'm a freaking Nam vet, I joined in 95 and got out in 03. That soon I was just left behind.
I'm not sure when it was phased out but I probably touched my last one around 2010-11
I wish I could get the audiobook in the UK, audible don’t have it but it’s available on audible US
That's a bummer
Is there any truth to the rumor that Marcus was found with all his mags full?
Its not a rumor. The Afghan that saved him said he had full mags
He sure unassed the area by dropping straight down the side of the Mtn.
Very interesting and worth listening to!
Where is it stated and by whom that Marcus didnt fire a shot? I keep reading that from people in the comments of various podcasts?
Gulab, the guy that found and protected Marcus, states that he found 11 loaded magazines on Marcus's gear while Marcus states he nearly depleted all of his ammo. Believe that or not if you want but so much of the Lone Survivor book has been proven to be inaccurate (to say the least) that I think people tend to believe the magazine thing. And given that mentality and how people who are following the facts are a little cynical about everything at this point, they're probably being hyperbolic about that never even fired a shot thing.
@@protonaccount2811Ahh Gulab. Didn't he and Marcus have a beef about some things later on? I do believe a lot of details in the book are fabricated (proven) for sure. Is that because of Marcus, or the ghost writer? As to Marcus not firing a shot, I find that hard to believe. Especially since he's a trained SEAL that has seen combat, and his buddies are getting killed around him and he himself has gunshot, shrapnel and impact wounds all over his body. Not a single shot fired?
@@RFM-CDA Yeah, that's why I say believe it or not if you want. Here's my personal opinion on it. If they were ambushed badly enough and from an elevated position or position that was strategic enough that severely pinned down the SEALs, it is possible the opportunity to fire back was simply not possible, especially if the SEALs were stuck in retreat mode. In any case, I find it weird to think that he would not fire a single round even in act of suppression or cover fire. For the injuries, I'm sure he took damage but he mentions facial damage in the book and other speaking events but a picture taken of him while he was being protected by Gulab shows his face looking OK. Yes, maybe it's just a single detail wrong but it again calls into question everything when all these inaccuracies keep stacking up.
For Gulab, I see that both ways. I think it's odd that Gulab decided to report the finding. But also the number of magazines is weirdly specific. Why did he count it? Why did he make sure all the magazines were completely full and are we sure he remembers correctly? The implication is that he is lying about the magazines to make Luttrell look bad because of their beef. This information was divulged before the beef when Gulab was temporarily stateside and Luttrell had arranged for Gulab to meet and speak with Patrick Robinson, author of the book.
And the Rangers or Marines, forget which, that combed the battle site afterwards found the 7.62 casings attributed to the PKMs the Taliban were using but not the amount of 5.56 ammo that would corroborate the amount of return fire from the SEALs. People think the Taliban cleaned it up or something but what is the motive here? They already have 19 American kills and a downed helicopter to claim victory but they also feel the need to meticulously clean up the battle area to set up this propaganda story. Is there evidence of the Taliban doing this to other battlefields in hopes that not only will the Americans will come upon the area and count brass but that they're going to report it back to the American public to make themselves look bad?
@@protonaccount2811 agree with a lot of the things you pointed out. Lots of questions we will probably never know the answers to unfortunately.
I dont even remember seeing omni directional satcomm antenas from harris before the 152s and I recall that that was a vehicle antenna
148s were notorious for losing timing and fill
I only read excerpts of this book. It had some descriptions that just felt normal and truthful. There were a lot of chilling parts about the preparation of the mission, what the enemy knew, and how many were attacking etc. I think I'm going to buy and read the whole thing. Funny thing is i never served but my interest in reading books by vets makes my library look like i did serve lol
Same
The untruths regarding Redwings comes from Marcus. How many Tali's there were (8-14 not 200) how many enemies they dispatched (likely none, trust me I wish it were more) but Marcus (albeit a hero) is also a tremendous teller of non truths.
MBITRs instead of higher frequency radios, no E&E plan, no signal plan, staying after a soft compromise. It’s awful what happened to those dudes. But SEALs are known for pointing their noses up at the basics and in this case, the basics would have made all the difference.
Was it a "lucky shot with a rpg," or was it a manpads because that information is starting to come out now despite being buried by higher years ago.
How did he go from hero to zero?
Marcus also mention that M.M was screaming to be saved not a glorious sacrifice
Lone survivor... Yet another fairy tale of navy seal BS.
So correct me if I am totally wrong, so the 3 of the 4 navy seals got killed by 8 taliban fighters, not 40 as Marcus claimed?
I've been trying to follow this over that past few months. A lot of what it boils down to is that the Taliban knew they were coming from the sound of the rotors and they knew the terrain. It was an ambush, simple as that. People seem to find it hard to grasp that Navy SEALs are supposed to be the best and most highly trained warriors in the world and are impervious to anyone that's not equally trained. They were ambushed and put into an unwinnable situation in territory they were not familiar so it has little to do with training at that point.
The "8 Taliban fighters" thing comes from some leaked footage recorded by the Taliban from the ambush. You can take what you want from that. I think it's possible that not every single Taliban that was there that day was documented and recorded. And for the 40 number that you say Marcus claimed, that is an adjusted number from the Navy. Marcus's initial reported numbers were even higher than that and were very unbelievable, which is why I think people tend to pile-on Marcus's inaccuracies and believe other reports rather than give the benefit of the doubt and put it somewhere in the middle.
I've watched the reddit videos and all of Marcus videos on RUclips. This whole story doesn't make any sense to me. Even the terrain where you can see Murphy's and Dietz bodies. Marcus says in multiple videos that the movie is accurate on what happened, but in his speeches he tells that they were in a diamond formation observing and he was taking a shut eye when the shit hit the fan. Rangers that found Marcus in the village said he was in his uniform and had all of his ammo on him. So it sounds like he tug tale and ran. There is a video where you can hear his team mates call his name but the video is removed and you can only read the comments. One thing that is very weird is how many videos are removed from social media. The comments are there to read but the videos is gone. This whole Lone Survivor story smells like shit.
Then there is the Rob O'Neal, Chris Kyle, Roberts ridge, Jaco Willings and the list goes on, that if you dig a little into their stories you realize all these stories have some truth but are very very fabricated.
Well, there were only three SEALS who ever tried to fight. And, according to some reports, AX, who was found many days after Marcus, had only died within the last day or two. So, he COULD have been saved if not for ML saying they were all dead.
Odds that they were not "compromised" by goat herders but by their own helo insertion?
I mean, SHIT, who/what do you believe at this stage.
@@jasoncapps3516The leadership could’ve chosen to continue the search for survivors mission.
I did comms for the SEALs, they used PSC-5 and PRC-148. The 117 and 152’s weren’t available to white SOF during those years. if you smacked the face of the PSC-5 hard enough it would zero out. It wasn’t known to everyone. All the SEALs went through comms training but they weren’t always proficient. They are kind of jacks of all trades. In my personal opinion they were over-reliant on intercoms and didnt practice pulling out their satcom antennas and practicing satcom comms checks. I can’t tell you how many times the guys would just pull out their Inmarsat phone and make a phone call when they needed assistance. Not faulting the guys, but many of the guys just didn’t have the experience in combat.
I was a sniper in Iraq and worked a lot with seal snipers. Commo sucks and I'm no expert on that subject but that was problems on several occasions. I don't know what roe in Afghanistan was concerning civilians and I'm not trying to Monday morning quarterback but always had a question. Could the team take the goat herders with them to a point where they could get comms and release them upon exfil? In Iraq we could hold civilians for 24hrs.
I'm guessing the combination of terrain, a heard of goats roaming and other factors lead to the decision.
Ultimately the goat herders are I feel a non issue as I feel it's been accepted that the teams c9ver was blown.
Every thing points to the fact killing the herders or taking them with them wouldn't of made a difference.
Sadly ML seems to either have a personal agenda or he's been told by the military to spread an agenda of execution civilians.
The way I look at it is that Marcus has survivors guilt and blaming the goat herders is his way of coping. I agree the civies were probably a non-factor and they were already comprimised by that point@@chrismario6371
I always wondered the same thing. Maybe they didnt think to do it ? Dont know.
Odd choice of a podcast name when you consider the acronym.
Interesting topic and story though. Thanks.
Film Actors Guild was already taken.
Were these guys standing out in the open when they got ambushed??
Dallas Stars is a hockey team, bro! lol Just like the Red Wings and the Whalers. :p
What happened to the AC-130 on station…? I’ve never heard anyone address that
"As the pilots climbed the last 1,000 feet of elevation, the AC-130 crew providing overwatch on their destination radioed to say they had to leave their position due to a mechanical issue. Brady knew that surveillance aircraft going off station without backup was supposed to result in aborting the mission.
He asked the AC-130 crew for one final report on the four potential landing zones the Night Stalkers had identified for the mission.
“We’ve got two military-aged males, possibly armed, on the northernmost LZ,” the crew reported. “Primary and secondary zones appear to be clear of potential threats.”
Believing the gunship could make it back on station in time for the insertion, Brady made the call to continue the mission."
- Operation Red Wings through the eyes of the Night Stalkers
There is a predator drone feed of marcus running. This is worse than finding out santa wasn't real when I was a kid.
Is it released yet I need to see it
Guys have seen it
Not failing hmm
Some missions go well…some missions don’t. Red Wings was a very bad/last day at the office for some very well trained operators due to many preventable factors…but hindsight is 20-20. I’m sure Special Operations command has learned their mistakes by now…although I’m sure after a few successful missions…egos will start to rise and history tends to repeat itself…but that’s just the nature of these things. Everyone losses. Just win more than you lose, and make sure the wins are big. So far…not seeing any reason to doubt US special operations…the government however…
Damn!!!😮😮😮 So Many Failures!!! From the Start😢😢😢 Rest easy frogmen!!!
As distasteful as it may seem, the basis for Murphy's MOH has to be revisited or it will tarnish & diminish the value of that award. With the SEALS habit of giving MOHs to cover-up mistakes, this HAS to be revisited since the requirement is that "there must be irrefutable proof that the deeds in question took place" & usually need TWO witnesses. Marcus ran so he couldn't have witnessed Murphy's actions. The firefight was over a lot quicker than stated by Luttrell, so the actions Murphy was credited for needs to be stated as "allegedly" did. What was the IRREFUTABLE evidence? No doubt Murphy was a brave man, but not reviewing this diminishes the Value of the MOH.
And a ship was named after him to but I don't know if it was changed
I assume Marcus knows all this
Probably a safe assumption
Dallas stars is a hockey team just like Detroit RED WINGS. Hence the name of the operation
There is an excellent book on the sort of arrogance and misconduct of the Seals called code over country. Very good read. Also as a former 0621 the 148 was a little piece of garbage that constantly lost its fill. I hated those little pieces of junk.
It wasn’t a lucky shot in the back of the chopper…..but an S7 surface to air missile
there was NO RPG lucky shot why is everyone lying about this , it was a heat guided rocket
Ed talks like an author.