Great review. For context for people switching from Staggered to Ortholinear, it took me about 5 days practicing for 1 hour a day, and forcing my way through normal usage to get back to my typing speed.
@@calmcode-io I somewhat mispoke. While I did go back to my typing speed, my coding speed is stilil horrible, and I've been making a ton of revisions to how I access special characters
Great video! I have a voyager myself after some RSI issues started to occur. Switching to a non-staggered layout and going from Qwerty to Colemak-DH was a lot to get used to but my wrists have not complained since. While it’s certainly expensive, including swapping key-switches, what I got was a rock-solid keyboard and awesome software to tune it exactly to my preferences. Also, it’s always interesting to see how others approach their shortcuts. I’ll adjust mine once in a while, but there were a couple in your video that I’ll definitely try out.
I am working towards a video on how I have customised the Voyager further. There are some extra lessons with regards to tenting/switch choices that might be worth sharing on that board.
What really sold me was the support of customization with keyboard layout. So you go wild with home row, long vs short presses etc. It’s a keyboard that can grow with you. First thing I did was swap the choc switches for something lighter. Also you get live view that can show your current layout and shortcut. They also have a training program to get use to your new configuration including combos. Only wish was that it was Mx key type. This has been my daily driver.
Love these ZSA boards! Started with the Moonlander -which has a palm rest, btw. Was so impressed by it, I coughed up the $$ for the Voyager for use with my laptop while on the go.
I own a moonlander as well! Will come to a review of it soon. I think the Moonlander is cool, but part of me really wants to like it more than I do. The Voyager feels better to me, partially because of the switches, but mainly because of the thumb key placement.
Good review; thanks!! I also have the Voyager and love it!!! I depend on having the nubs for my index fingers, as I'm a touch typist, but I never thought about having 2 nubs on each side, one for the index finger, one for the pinkie. I might have to try that. RE: your setup of double C's and double V's... try typing "I get revved up about divvying up time between using a savvy accent key to accommodate the acceleration of my accounting skills, and acclimating to using a split keyboard." LOL... joking aside, assigning control keys to the press-and-hold function has been game changing for me.
Like from Voyager owner. I still getting used to it but mostly because I made a radical decision to use Colemak on it. Still, never regretted. The most universal in terms of ergonomics and portability. And ZSA software has almost 0 learning curve 💪🏾
I can imagine that the extra keys with nibs on for that layout are a welcome surprise as well. And yeah ... I use other boards for sure but the software is the main thing that I always miss with other boards.
That's why I already started learning Colemak-DH a few days ago on my row-staggered mechanical. A week ago I completely went with blank keycaps and removed QWERTY from my layout. I'm still learning, but by the time my Voyager arrives (with blank keycaps) I'll be ready. The row -stagger already annoys me so much, I can't wait for it to arrive here!
@@Dominik-vn6lo how do you feel currently without ability to write down simple sentences? 😄 I mean I still sometimes take my old keyboard back when I need to write a big text 🫣
I bought a ZSA Plank and I’m very happy with it. Inlove the brand but I don’t like the 5 lines layout. Since I don’t think they’ll go back to the 4 line’s layout, I will be moving to other options like the Corne GLP
FYI, if you get the optional magnetic tripod connectors, connect them to a tripod before attaching to keyboard. The magnetic connection is really strong and almost impossible to remove without the tripods leverage.
Great review. We also agree on the palm pad thing! We tried it with the palm pads of the Dygma Defy and it improves a lot! Also, we think that having 3 thumbkeys on each side could be better.
Thanks. Some of this could be personal but I think that for now I have settled on a "one button per thumb is maybe fine" philosophy. I will make a video about this later because the reasoning is that this allows me to have on configuration that will basically work very comfortably on any board that I might try. Even the ones with a mere single spacebar. Any extra keys are nice for common shortcuts, but I have found that I can also easily manage without them. These extra keys are convenient, but I value being able to switch my boards at any time.
@@nickgoogle4525 If possible I think it is preferable to have one key per thumb though. I want to be able to do something clever when I only have a single space bar because for the forseeable future that will be a keyboard that is in mix ... but the moment that there is a nice two thumb keyboard that fits on top of my macbook air in an ergonomic way then this might change.
@@calmcode-io I see. Actually I think having a few keys extra is good, also on the thumb. But IMO it is important that the main thumb key fits perfectly to your hand position. Then on top extra keys can be a plus. But I think it is clever to use a layout which uses those as nice add-ons and not as needed. Thus you can transfer the layout to a standard keyboard. That is how I set up mine. BTW, I have not seen anyone so far who did it in the way: two one-shot layers (Shift and Symbols) on the best pinky places and the navigation layer on the held thumb. I am working on an article and video showcasing that, but it will likely take some weeks.
@@nickgoogle4525 There are many ways to set up a keyboard, and one of the fun things about trying out all the keyboards is that they also serve as forcing functions to explore different layouts! What boards do you use now? In terms of what you just said about main thumb keys: sounds spot on. This is something that the Dygma Raise does pretty well. The main thumb buttons are super comfortable to reach and then there are four lower buttons below which use choc switches. Because these are literally lower they also allow for easy tactile navigation.
Can't wait when keyboards will have bendable oled screens on keycaps. Would make getting around these layers a lot easier. Also would turn your keyboard into second monitor.
I am not so sure if that is useful. Looking down at your keys would really strain the neck. Touch typing and looking at the screen feels like a much friendly exercise.
@@calmcode-io Not everyone can touch type also screen can add interesting feedback about keys or layers. Look at Flux Keyboard to see what is possible.
Arghh! Dragged down the rabbit hole again! Now I'm wondering, what if we used Choc keys with Choc spacing between rows and MX spacing between columns and used the extra space to make a fixed fence between columns to help keep the fingers in their lanes whilst minimising the off-home travel for each finger? And what if the thumb buttons actuated with horizontal motion of the thumbs rather than vertical?
@@calmcode-io Hm.. checked out all the Corne variants on Etsy including Paintor. No one seems to have tried either of these ideas: horizontally actuating thumb keys; or fences between columns. There has been some experimentation with column alignment and spacing. I think it would be useful to have a four-key column PCB (which could be cut down as required) that could be set into 3-D printed frames to experiment with these ideas.
Great video! Love a tap dance. I love my Mac but the thing that bothers me is that when I make a spelling mistake I have to use the mouse to right click the word to use the auto correct. In the spirit of keeping hands on the keyboard have you found a way to bring the mouse cursor over to the cursor and use your right click buttons any faster or found a keyboard shortcut to open up spell checking (like on windows)?
Hah! This is for sure one of my main gripes with "modern" software. It still relies too much on the mouse. Am also curious about this if others folks have any advice.
When I got RSI issues I bought a lot of them in a state of panic, knowing that I could also sell them off relatively easy on Dutch ebay. I also bought a fair few second hand too. I think the perfect keyboard does not exist but that each keyboard shows me something new that is possible. I rotate between a few boards at the moment. The voyager/Glove80 tend to be my most ergonomic favs at the moment but also still sometimes grab the UHK when I need to switch between mac/ubuntu a lot.
@@calmcode-io I like v10 because of function rows, three keys for the thumbs and macro keys. My function keys are replaced by custom behaviors by programming them directly with qmk. Having tap dance on function keys allows to get quick access to Xcode shortcuts. I set kailh silent pink.
The Voyager costs 440 Euro in the NL, when you add everything up. I kind of regretted my purchase. I find it too expensive and most important not matching the promises and glorious reviews. The ergonomics could be better: keycaps not square, but the bit smaller in height it can be with the used switches would make the keys a bit easier to reach. Also the key layout and thumb keys could be better positioned and the main thumb key would need to be bigger and with a different keycap shape. Then the provided TRRS cable is not good. Way too long for typical desktop use and also not nice and flexible. For the high price I would expect better. Also Oryx is great, but has a few critical limitations, most notably not allowing to assign a character to a shifted key. Finally the switches (Pro Red) are supposed to be quiet. They are not. They are loud and not fun to use either. I have much better MX switches in my UHK, which IMO is the better overall package, even Voyager has some cool things for it as well.
I am sorry to hear that. My experience is still great (am typing this message on a Voyager as we speak), but if you want silent switches I can recommend checking splitkb.com. They have some really really silent options as well. Could you elaborate on the character with the shifted key? I think it is possible but I may be thinking about something else than you. If you really want to get another keyboard, it can help to know that Marktplaats has folks eager to buy ZSA keyboards. You should totally be able to return some of your investment via that route. I also own a UHKv2 and also seriously love that board to bits, so I can totally understand the warm feelings for that device.
Thanks for the answer. I possibly will try different switches, but think ZSA should offer these as an option already, not forcing users to spend money twice on switches and then have on set over. The say the reds would be silent, which they are not! The shift change I want to achieve is to simply allow to assign a character to a shifted key, independent of what the key on the base layer does. The UHK, which you also have, has that option directly in the configuration software Agent.
There are a lot of these keyboards and they are all insanely expensive. Seems like finding the one you like could easily turn into 1500 euro adventure. Which is a bit much for a keyboard you know you will replace anyway.
To an extend, yes, but remember that the 2nd hand market for this gear is also very healthy. I rotate a few boards but also sell the rest. That really helps keep the costs at bay.
@@calmcode-io Not really outside of US, or at least I can't find anything here in EU (tried finding ZSA Voyager, no hits on ebay or facebook marketplace at all in 500km radius from where I live). I will wait for one with analog (hall effect) keys anyway, but these are so niche and risky to buy...
Wireless also has downsides. Bluetooth can be spotty, and having wireless also means that there *must* be a battery that needs replacement at some point. To me the wires are totally fine.
@@calmcode-io oh certainly. wireless has more downsides than you could shake a stick at. But, unless those are apparent environmental influences that are known to afflict a workspace, the issues don't exist. I found their blog about the wireless question and I don't buy it. You could have a corne built for you with batteries and a controller for the price of the voyager. There's always DIY, but that's a whole different discussion.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
"A channel without bullshit" was my first impression upon seeing your videos too. Keep it up.
Happy to hear it!
And yeah, I proudly refuse affiliate links :)
Great review. For context for people switching from Staggered to Ortholinear, it took me about 5 days practicing for 1 hour a day, and forcing my way through normal usage to get back to my typing speed.
That's relatively quick! It certainly took me a fair bit longer and it wasn't until I used the Glove80 where I was really able to nail it.
@@calmcode-io I somewhat mispoke. While I did go back to my typing speed, my coding speed is stilil horrible, and I've been making a ton of revisions to how I access special characters
I'd been wondering about how long it would take to learn that! I was afraid it would take a few months, nice to hear it is not *that* dramatic.
Awesome video, it's nice to see that a lot of dutchies are into this type of keyboards, if I ever wanted to sell my Voyager I think it will be easy.
Great video! I have a voyager myself after some RSI issues started to occur. Switching to a non-staggered layout and going from Qwerty to Colemak-DH was a lot to get used to but my wrists have not complained since.
While it’s certainly expensive, including swapping key-switches, what I got was a rock-solid keyboard and awesome software to tune it exactly to my preferences.
Also, it’s always interesting to see how others approach their shortcuts. I’ll adjust mine once in a while, but there were a couple in your video that I’ll definitely try out.
I am working towards a video on how I have customised the Voyager further. There are some extra lessons with regards to tenting/switch choices that might be worth sharing on that board.
What really sold me was the support of customization with keyboard layout. So you go wild with home row, long vs short presses etc. It’s a keyboard that can grow with you. First thing I did was swap the choc switches for something lighter. Also you get live view that can show your current layout and shortcut. They also have a training program to get use to your new configuration including combos. Only wish was that it was Mx key type. This has been my daily driver.
My Moonlander review will dive a bit more into that yeah, but I totally agree! The software experience really is a big reason to consider ZSA boards.
Love these ZSA boards! Started with the Moonlander -which has a palm rest, btw. Was so impressed by it, I coughed up the $$ for the Voyager for use with my laptop while on the go.
I own a moonlander as well! Will come to a review of it soon. I think the Moonlander is cool, but part of me really wants to like it more than I do. The Voyager feels better to me, partially because of the switches, but mainly because of the thumb key placement.
Hearing Vincent call your content no-BS must be really nice.
I emailed them about it and, yeah, they did mention that it was their favourite part of the review. f
Honestly, cool blog!
This video was really well made - thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Good review; thanks!! I also have the Voyager and love it!!! I depend on having the nubs for my index fingers, as I'm a touch typist, but I never thought about having 2 nubs on each side, one for the index finger, one for the pinkie. I might have to try that.
RE: your setup of double C's and double V's... try typing "I get revved up about divvying up time between using a savvy accent key to accommodate the acceleration of my accounting skills, and acclimating to using a split keyboard." LOL... joking aside, assigning control keys to the press-and-hold function has been game changing for me.
Yeah, quickly after making this video I undid the CC/VV shortcut. I might add another nib on the thumb cluster though
Amazing review!
I'm planning to get one very soon
Hope you enjoy it!
Great video!
Thanks!
Like from Voyager owner. I still getting used to it but mostly because I made a radical decision to use Colemak on it. Still, never regretted. The most universal in terms of ergonomics and portability. And ZSA software has almost 0 learning curve 💪🏾
I can imagine that the extra keys with nibs on for that layout are a welcome surprise as well. And yeah ... I use other boards for sure but the software is the main thing that I always miss with other boards.
That's why I already started learning Colemak-DH a few days ago on my row-staggered mechanical. A week ago I completely went with blank keycaps and removed QWERTY from my layout. I'm still learning, but by the time my Voyager arrives (with blank keycaps) I'll be ready.
The row -stagger already annoys me so much, I can't wait for it to arrive here!
@@Dominik-vn6lo how do you feel currently without ability to write down simple sentences? 😄 I mean I still sometimes take my old keyboard back when I need to write a big text 🫣
I bought a ZSA Plank and I’m very happy with it. Inlove the brand but I don’t like the 5 lines layout. Since I don’t think they’ll go back to the 4 line’s layout, I will be moving to other options like the Corne GLP
FYI, if you get the optional magnetic tripod connectors, connect them to a tripod before attaching to keyboard. The magnetic connection is really strong and almost impossible to remove without the tripods leverage.
Very true!
great video. thanks.
You are welcome!
Nice video thanks
Great review. We also agree on the palm pad thing! We tried it with the palm pads of the Dygma Defy and it improves a lot! Also, we think that having 3 thumbkeys on each side could be better.
Thanks. Some of this could be personal but I think that for now I have settled on a "one button per thumb is maybe fine" philosophy. I will make a video about this later because the reasoning is that this allows me to have on configuration that will basically work very comfortably on any board that I might try. Even the ones with a mere single spacebar.
Any extra keys are nice for common shortcuts, but I have found that I can also easily manage without them. These extra keys are convenient, but I value being able to switch my boards at any time.
@@calmcode-io Haha, exactly my reasoning! The space key is the best thumb key there is IMO.
@@nickgoogle4525 If possible I think it is preferable to have one key per thumb though. I want to be able to do something clever when I only have a single space bar because for the forseeable future that will be a keyboard that is in mix ... but the moment that there is a nice two thumb keyboard that fits on top of my macbook air in an ergonomic way then this might change.
@@calmcode-io I see. Actually I think having a few keys extra is good, also on the thumb. But IMO it is important that the main thumb key fits perfectly to your hand position. Then on top extra keys can be a plus. But I think it is clever to use a layout which uses those as nice add-ons and not as needed. Thus you can transfer the layout to a standard keyboard. That is how I set up mine. BTW, I have not seen anyone so far who did it in the way: two one-shot layers (Shift and Symbols) on the best pinky places and the navigation layer on the held thumb. I am working on an article and video showcasing that, but it will likely take some weeks.
@@nickgoogle4525 There are many ways to set up a keyboard, and one of the fun things about trying out all the keyboards is that they also serve as forcing functions to explore different layouts! What boards do you use now?
In terms of what you just said about main thumb keys: sounds spot on. This is something that the Dygma Raise does pretty well. The main thumb buttons are super comfortable to reach and then there are four lower buttons below which use choc switches. Because these are literally lower they also allow for easy tactile navigation.
I've had them for 3 months now, and did not know the extra buttons had nobs in them .. I feel dumb and happy at the same time now
Hah! I recall having a similar feeling.
Does white get dirty? I hear about stains that can’t be cleaned?
Have not had that issue myself, but I also have not tried getting it stained.
Can't wait when keyboards will have bendable oled screens on keycaps. Would make getting around these layers a lot easier. Also would turn your keyboard into second monitor.
I am not so sure if that is useful. Looking down at your keys would really strain the neck. Touch typing and looking at the screen feels like a much friendly exercise.
@@calmcode-io Not everyone can touch type also screen can add interesting feedback about keys or layers. Look at Flux Keyboard to see what is possible.
Arghh! Dragged down the rabbit hole again! Now I'm wondering, what if we used Choc keys with Choc spacing between rows and MX spacing between columns and used the extra space to make a fixed fence between columns to help keep the fingers in their lanes whilst minimising the off-home travel for each finger? And what if the thumb buttons actuated with horizontal motion of the thumbs rather than vertical?
I ordered a paintor to find out!
@@calmcode-io Hm.. checked out all the Corne variants on Etsy including Paintor. No one seems to have tried either of these ideas: horizontally actuating thumb keys; or fences between columns. There has been some experimentation with column alignment and spacing. I think it would be useful to have a four-key column PCB (which could be cut down as required) that could be set into 3-D printed frames to experiment with these ideas.
@@john_hind Ah sorry, I misread the bit about the fence. I guess the Glove80 does that a bit with the columns in the keywell.
great review! Can you share your layout?
Please could you share your Oryx layout?
Great video! Love a tap dance.
I love my Mac but the thing that bothers me is that when I make a spelling mistake I have to use the mouse to right click the word to use the auto correct.
In the spirit of keeping hands on the keyboard have you found a way to bring the mouse cursor over to the cursor and use your right click buttons any faster or found a keyboard shortcut to open up spell checking (like on windows)?
Hah! This is for sure one of my main gripes with "modern" software. It still relies too much on the mouse. Am also curious about this if others folks have any advice.
Use auto hotkey
Is that not just for windows?
I’m very curious about that trackpad. What is it?
The base apple one
You have tested a lot of keyboards in a short period of time. Which one do you use finally ?
When I got RSI issues I bought a lot of them in a state of panic, knowing that I could also sell them off relatively easy on Dutch ebay. I also bought a fair few second hand too.
I think the perfect keyboard does not exist but that each keyboard shows me something new that is possible. I rotate between a few boards at the moment. The voyager/Glove80 tend to be my most ergonomic favs at the moment but also still sometimes grab the UHK when I need to switch between mac/ubuntu a lot.
@@calmcode-io ok, I do the same between glove80 and Keychron v10 max
@@trackvegeta8716 That makes me curious. What's the appeal of Keychrons board? I've always found their stuff limited in terms of customization.
@@calmcode-io I like v10 because of function rows, three keys for the thumbs and macro keys. My function keys are replaced by custom behaviors by programming them directly with qmk. Having tap dance on function keys allows to get quick access to Xcode shortcuts. I set kailh silent pink.
The Voyager costs 440 Euro in the NL, when you add everything up. I kind of regretted my purchase. I find it too expensive and most important not matching the promises and glorious reviews. The ergonomics could be better: keycaps not square, but the bit smaller in height it can be with the used switches would make the keys a bit easier to reach. Also the key layout and thumb keys could be better positioned and the main thumb key would need to be bigger and with a different keycap shape. Then the provided TRRS cable is not good. Way too long for typical desktop use and also not nice and flexible. For the high price I would expect better. Also Oryx is great, but has a few critical limitations, most notably not allowing to assign a character to a shifted key. Finally the switches (Pro Red) are supposed to be quiet. They are not. They are loud and not fun to use either. I have much better MX switches in my UHK, which IMO is the better overall package, even Voyager has some cool things for it as well.
I am sorry to hear that. My experience is still great (am typing this message on a Voyager as we speak), but if you want silent switches I can recommend checking splitkb.com. They have some really really silent options as well.
Could you elaborate on the character with the shifted key? I think it is possible but I may be thinking about something else than you.
If you really want to get another keyboard, it can help to know that Marktplaats has folks eager to buy ZSA keyboards. You should totally be able to return some of your investment via that route. I also own a UHKv2 and also seriously love that board to bits, so I can totally understand the warm feelings for that device.
Thanks for the answer. I possibly will try different switches, but think ZSA should offer these as an option already, not forcing users to spend money twice on switches and then have on set over. The say the reds would be silent, which they are not! The shift change I want to achieve is to simply allow to assign a character to a shifted key, independent of what the key on the base layer does. The UHK, which you also have, has that option directly in the configuration software Agent.
There are a lot of these keyboards and they are all insanely expensive. Seems like finding the one you like could easily turn into 1500 euro adventure. Which is a bit much for a keyboard you know you will replace anyway.
To an extend, yes, but remember that the 2nd hand market for this gear is also very healthy. I rotate a few boards but also sell the rest. That really helps keep the costs at bay.
@@calmcode-io Not really outside of US, or at least I can't find anything here in EU (tried finding ZSA Voyager, no hits on ebay or facebook marketplace at all in 500km radius from where I live). I will wait for one with analog (hall effect) keys anyway, but these are so niche and risky to buy...
@@tehehe5929 I seem to see them appear on Marktplaats every now and again. But yeah, can take a while.
Bummer. This should be wireless - or at least have a wireless config. Seems like an odd choice to not have that available.
Wireless also has downsides. Bluetooth can be spotty, and having wireless also means that there *must* be a battery that needs replacement at some point. To me the wires are totally fine.
@@calmcode-io oh certainly. wireless has more downsides than you could shake a stick at. But, unless those are apparent environmental influences that are known to afflict a workspace, the issues don't exist. I found their blog about the wireless question and I don't buy it. You could have a corne built for you with batteries and a controller for the price of the voyager. There's always DIY, but that's a whole different discussion.
You might enjoy the Kyria v4 board. I am reviewing it now and it *does not* require any soldering. No wireless version of it for now though.
very expensive
Certainly!