What I forgot to mention in the video is arrow keys - the way I have that configured is CTRL+H/J/K/L keys are actually my arrow keys, like Vim movement. This config I have for years, have it even on my laptop. And since my CTRL key is in the caps lock position it is really comfortable, having the ability to have Vim movement like system wide is a joy. The way I configured this is with the help of KarabinerElements on MacOS - I talk about it here ruclips.net/video/ENMawni-VOA/видео.html
I’ll be honest, I’m not a programmer or anything, but I saw the Voyager and really wanted to try it to see if I should buy the hype. I got it, and for the first 3 days, I was uneasy because it was CHALLENGING to type on it at first and learning the thumb keys was a little frustrating. That being said, after 3 weeks of consistent, moderate use…it’s been WORTH IT. It genuinely feels comfortable and I love the customization of it. I’m not a guy that’s making crazy macros with it, but I LOVE that I can set up my own layer for gaming and also move the boards around based on the space I need on my desk. It’s also influenced me to learn each key more in depth since the keys are one separate boards which are operated by different hands. Overall, despite being a little expensive, it’s been money well spent. 👍
100%, I am a dev but before I used it for dev I found myself basically relearning to touch type and actually acknowledge the qwerty keyboard layout before I could leverage the layer system. One of my better purchases without a doubt. Glad you are enjoying your ZSA Voyager too!
No no :) it is not about mispressing, it is easier to find the key, a have a space next to it. I want to buy a set from zsa for filling the gaps like this.
@@inelpandzic I took out the spring from the switch and put the keycap back on. It sits lower so your fingers know the difference and it doesn't break up the aesthetics of the board.
I am getting this board next week. Really nice to see different approach as numbers on different layer. Will definitely try this config. Because in programming there are a lot of symbols that are used more than nums.
The biggest struggle I have had with the Voyager is the timing and QMK -- Did you make the video about why the home row modifiers was not working for you? I'd love to see it .....
The reason I dont like home row mods is the lag it comes with it (press and hold timeout). I tried lowering the timeout but didnt help in the sense i still feel the lag and I really dont want that on my keyboard. It is ergomomic, but the lag bothers me to the point that I ditched them all together.
Great video! Just got my Voyager a couple of days ago. Already love it, although I'm at the beginning of the journey, my typing dropped from 100wpm to around 60-70, but increasing. Interesting what you have there, that you shifted your home row one row higher. Will definitely give it a go, now I rarely use the top row and it is a waste of space this way.
Old school programmer here (80's - 00's). Give me an IBM keyboard from the 80's. Just awesome. These days of course you have so many more needs - and choices to feed those needs.
I have a voyager and I'm using home row mods, so I'm curious why you didn't like that, I'm also curious why you shiftd the keys up, num keys could be useful (especially with vim)
I new a question like this will come up from someone who is already using the Voyager. The reason why I don't like home row mods is because it bothers me to have some lag in my key presses and with home row mods you will have (and as with any other multiple key actions on a single key, like tap and double-tap, tap and hold and so on). My config does not have any of that and to achieve that, I shifted everything by one row, so I have my cmd and option keys in the lowest low. That gets me couple of things and the most important one is that now I don't need to have any key with multiple action and with that I don't have any lag at all. Also, num keys and simbols, like I showed in the video, are at my finger tips. With shifting everything now I also have my outer thumb-cluster keys used only for switching layers, with zero latency as well, so it is really cool to have nums and simbols like I have it now, really happy with it. What I forgot to mention in the video is arrow keys - the way I have that configured is CTRL+H/J/K/L keys, like vim keys, and this config I have for years, have it even on my laptop. And since my CTRL key is in the caps lock position, having the ability have vim movement system wide is a joy. I talk about this here: ruclips.net/video/ENMawni-VOA/видео.html I hope I answered your question :)
thank you for your reply, it is actually a good reason to not do home row mods, makes me think... for my part arrow keys also are set to h, j, k and l keys but they are in my third layer, but your method is better as you can use it with other keyboards even the internal keyboard thanks again, very good video !
Yes, the main reason for havin ctrl+h/j/k/l for arrows instead of some other layer is that I have it on my laptop as well. This was a game changer, frankly the single best like keyboard hack I have. Thanks for the comment and I’m glad you like the video :) Cheers
@@inelpandzicI agree homerow mods are tricky to set up and are hard to get used to at first. I don't know much about QMK, but with ZMK, there is a 'tap-prefered' flavor that eliminates the laggyness. There is also something called positional hold tap that prevents accidental homerow activation by only allowing the opposite hand to trigger the homerow mod keys. There's an excellent guide called "Precondition - a guild to homerow mods" if interested. I also have the arrow keys on the home row, as well as pg up + down, home, end on the bottom row. It's hard to put into words how convenient this is. I'm so much faster and I don't have to keep reaching my right hand to the right corner of my keyboard for those keys. It's amazing.
Your keyboard config is BRILLIANT. I'm using the Moergo Glove80 but also find it bulky like the Advantage 360, you might've convinced me to try the voyager.
Great video. The importance of exercise can’t be overstated. I used a split keyboard for years but my RSI didn’t improve until I addressed my posture through exercise. I still use a split keyboard ofc :)
Got the voyager 5 months ago and came here to be affirmed for my good decision. It has been a game changer. The first two weeks of configuring symbol layers for programming and getting used to typing on the linear layout were rough but after that everything from type speed to comfort has improved. Happy with my buy
Spot on. I love my voyager and I moved the alphas up one row too. I then got tilters so my keys form a key well. You're spot on about reducing finger movement. Having thumb keys you cannot reach is not ergonomic at all, and having 80 keys is the opposite of where you want to go once you're customizing the keys. And one thing many overlook... It's not that hard finding where all the keys are, because you put them there yourself.
I got this keyboard as my remote travel keyboard so I could use my moonlander for my home workstation permanently. I enjoy it so much that I am considering using it all the time haha such a quality keyboard and easy to travel with! Can't wait to try some new switches once the choc styles get more variety.
I would love to hear your thoughts on why home row mods are not the way to go. I have them setup now and love em except for the fact that I have to slowdown to type them otherwise I get the two letters instead of the modded shortcut. Played around with tapping term setting but couldn’t find the sweet spot.
That is exactly the problem for me, that i need to slow down, it breaks my flow and like really bothers me. It feels laggy and I really dont want to have that on my keyboard. I know people use it, but I personally really dont like.
@@inelpandzic Yup that's the issue. I'm considering trying a layout where all the letters are shifted up a row and the bottom row is used as modifiers.
This is why I switched away from the moonlander to the corne 36 key. For me its perfect. I can see having the extra row and column for some users being a good compromise.
I would like to try corne 36, but I feel I will miss some keys. I would probably need to have home-row mods or something and I don't like that at all. The lag, even slightest, I notice it and it is bothering me a lot.
@@hpn1427posta naša Srbija rupa na tepihu Evrope ko što jedan nemudri čovek proreče. Eto ja radim u firmi koja ima web prodavnicu za kućne ljubimce i isporučuju u 30 zemalja Evrope ali ne u BiH, SR, MK, CG i Al. A imaju sad novo skladište u Mađarskoj za istočna tržišta. Nego ti nađi drugara u BiH ili negse drugde gde isporučuju... Ako si iz IT onda ti je svakako pola društva već vani.
Well I would like to try it out, but, similar as to Kineses that I have, I have feeling that it would be too bulky for me. And, also, I really don't want to program QMK by hand, tried it once and it wasn't fun at all :)
We have tried the ZSA Voyager too and we feel like an extra thumbkey on each side would have been nice. With only too, you rely a lot on using home row modifiers. We have a completely different approach in our keyboards (like the Dygma Defy) with up to 8 thumbkeys in each side. But the idea behind it is that you can use 4 or 5 comfortably. There are more so different people can reach different keys.
Hey @DygmaLab I was watching/waiting Defy like from the very beginning, but when I got this one I feel that 8 keys for each thumb is too much, at least for me. I generally like a minimalistic approach and with a good config, I don't think one needs many keys. But honestly, I would like to try Defy, seems very very interesting. If you hook me up with one to try it out, I would be glad to share my thoughts on it :D
9:30 I own a Voyager and I believe that having the modifiers on the home row is absolutely a must. I am curious to know why you think they should not be used.
The reason why I don't like home row mods is because it bothers me to have some lag in my key presses and with home row mods you will have that lag, no matter how low you config the tap latency. I really notice when I type and I come across keys like A, S, D or F (where my modifier key lived), it really annoys me. My config does not have any of that and to achieve that, I shifted everything by one row, so I have my cmd and option keys in the lowest row. That gets me couple of things and the most important one is that now I don't need to have any key with multiple action and with that I don't have any lag at all. With shifting everything now I also have my outer thumb-cluster keys used only for switching layers, with zero latency as well, so it is really cool to have nums and simbols like I have it now, really happy with it. What I forgot to mention in the video is arrow keys - the way I have that configured is CTRL+H/J/K/L keys, like vim keys, and this config I have for years, have it even on my laptop. And since my CTRL key is in the caps lock position, having the ability to have vim movement system wide is a joy. I talk about this here: ruclips.net/video/ENMawni-VOA/видео.html
@@inelpandzic I would love to see a detailed walk through your config and your thoughts and experience with it. Also when shifting the home row up you will not have the thumb key in the right position. I do not get how that works.
Great video! I want to eventually move over to these ergonomic split keyboards but haven't made the jump just yet. I'm okay with the steep learning curve, but the cost of these keyboards are definitely pricier. It's hard to commit to that without knowing for absolutely certainty that this is the way I want to go. With that said, do you maybe have some recommendations for more budget friendly options? It would be good to try one for a few weeks before fully committing to purchase one of these more expensive ones.
Yes, committing to buying it was the biggest issue for me as well, especially since it is easy to think you will not like it. Unfortunately I can't recommend anything like budget-friendly, simply because I don't think there is some. The only way is if you find something used. But even if used it is also pretty expensive. My Ergodox was used and it was still pretty pricy. My only recommendation is that you try to imagine your workflow, what exactly would you do, like open Oryx and configure your layout of choice and try to see will this improve things. I did exactly that. But the bottom line is like, you simply need to go for it and hope for the best :) And like I sad in the video, I see this as an investment, if you buy and it works well for you, thats great, but also if it does not work for you, well you then at least know that it is not for you and you don't have to think about it anymore. And eventually you will sell it and get your money back.
@@inelpandzic thank you for the detailed response. I agree on your points and eventually do want to commit (and know I will need to do down the line anyway for the ergonomic benefits). I'm happy to make the investment and pull the trigger once work is a bit quieter 😛 Thanks for the info and subscribed!
I would second what Inel says, anything budget will not be up to par and may make you write off split ergo keyboards entirely. There's only two I would recommend, the ZSA Voyager in the review here and the MoErgo Glove80 if you're willing to try a more full sized keyboard with a keywell.
I'm very happy with my Corne keyboard but I did have to solder a few components and learn to work with ZMK. It's not a walk in the park, but it was a rewarding experience once I got everything working. There are great communities on Discord willing to help with any troubles.
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
What I forgot to mention in the video is arrow keys - the way I have that configured is CTRL+H/J/K/L keys are actually my arrow keys, like Vim movement. This config I have for years, have it even on my laptop.
And since my CTRL key is in the caps lock position it is really comfortable, having the ability to have Vim movement like system wide is a joy.
The way I configured this is with the help of KarabinerElements on MacOS - I talk about it here ruclips.net/video/ENMawni-VOA/видео.html
I’ll be honest, I’m not a programmer or anything, but I saw the Voyager and really wanted to try it to see if I should buy the hype. I got it, and for the first 3 days, I was uneasy because it was CHALLENGING to type on it at first and learning the thumb keys was a little frustrating. That being said, after 3 weeks of consistent, moderate use…it’s been WORTH IT. It genuinely feels comfortable and I love the customization of it. I’m not a guy that’s making crazy macros with it, but I LOVE that I can set up my own layer for gaming and also move the boards around based on the space I need on my desk. It’s also influenced me to learn each key more in depth since the keys are one separate boards which are operated by different hands. Overall, despite being a little expensive, it’s been money well spent. 👍
100%, I am a dev but before I used it for dev I found myself basically relearning to touch type and actually acknowledge the qwerty keyboard layout before I could leverage the layer system. One of my better purchases without a doubt. Glad you are enjoying your ZSA Voyager too!
for the love of god put that keycap back on. map it to none if you dont want to mispress it ffs
No no :) it is not about mispressing, it is easier to find the key, a have a space next to it.
I want to buy a set from zsa for filling the gaps like this.
@@inelpandzic I took out the spring from the switch and put the keycap back on. It sits lower so your fingers know the difference and it doesn't break up the aesthetics of the board.
@@jasonslaught I now removed the switches and made lika a simple plugs. Looks really nice.
I am getting this board next week. Really nice to see different approach as numbers on different layer. Will definitely try this config. Because in programming there are a lot of symbols that are used more than nums.
The biggest struggle I have had with the Voyager is the timing and QMK -- Did you make the video about why the home row modifiers was not working for you? I'd love to see it .....
The reason I dont like home row mods is the lag it comes with it (press and hold timeout). I tried lowering the timeout but didnt help in the sense i still feel the lag and I really dont want that on my keyboard.
It is ergomomic, but the lag bothers me to the point that I ditched them all together.
237 Laney Track
Great video! Just got my Voyager a couple of days ago. Already love it, although I'm at the beginning of the journey, my typing dropped from 100wpm to around 60-70, but increasing. Interesting what you have there, that you shifted your home row one row higher. Will definitely give it a go, now I rarely use the top row and it is a waste of space this way.
Trust me, I think you're gonna love it :)
Old school programmer here (80's - 00's). Give me an IBM keyboard from the 80's. Just awesome. These days of course you have so many more needs - and choices to feed those needs.
Honestly, I think the needs are always the same, be efficient and comfortable, but thankfully today we have better options to address both of these.
This keyboard looks good and programmer-friendly, but the price
Not so friendly :)
hey, does it take a lot of time to adjust to this keyboard if i'm farily decent with regular querty keyboard
Hey, well after 2-3 weeks you can be good as you are with your regular keyboard.
I would love to watch a video on your specific layout, if possible 🙏
Hey, I hope I get some time to do it.
But currently, I’m back on my good-old apple magic keyboard :)
I like to switch it up from time to time.
I have a voyager and I'm using home row mods, so I'm curious why you didn't like that,
I'm also curious why you shiftd the keys up, num keys could be useful (especially with vim)
I new a question like this will come up from someone who is already using the Voyager.
The reason why I don't like home row mods is because it bothers me to have some lag in my key presses and with home row mods you will have (and as with any other multiple key actions on a single key, like tap and double-tap, tap and hold and so on).
My config does not have any of that and to achieve that, I shifted everything by one row, so I have my cmd and option keys in the lowest low. That gets me couple of things and the most important one is that now I don't need to have any key with multiple action and with that I don't have any lag at all.
Also, num keys and simbols, like I showed in the video, are at my finger tips.
With shifting everything now I also have my outer thumb-cluster keys used only for switching layers, with zero latency as well, so it is really cool to have nums and simbols like I have it now, really happy with it.
What I forgot to mention in the video is arrow keys - the way I have that configured is CTRL+H/J/K/L keys, like vim keys, and this config I have for years, have it even on my laptop. And since my CTRL key is in the caps lock position, having the ability have vim movement system wide is a joy. I talk about this here: ruclips.net/video/ENMawni-VOA/видео.html
I hope I answered your question :)
thank you for your reply, it is actually a good reason to not do home row mods, makes me think...
for my part arrow keys also are set to h, j, k and l keys but they are in my third layer, but your method is better as you can use it with other keyboards even the internal keyboard
thanks again, very good video !
Yes, the main reason for havin ctrl+h/j/k/l for arrows instead of some other layer is that I have it on my laptop as well. This was a game changer, frankly the single best like keyboard hack I have.
Thanks for the comment and I’m glad you like the video :) Cheers
@@inelpandzicI agree homerow mods are tricky to set up and are hard to get used to at first. I don't know much about QMK, but with ZMK, there is a 'tap-prefered' flavor that eliminates the laggyness. There is also something called positional hold tap that prevents accidental homerow activation by only allowing the opposite hand to trigger the homerow mod keys. There's an excellent guide called "Precondition - a guild to homerow mods" if interested.
I also have the arrow keys on the home row, as well as pg up + down, home, end on the bottom row. It's hard to put into words how convenient this is. I'm so much faster and I don't have to keep reaching my right hand to the right corner of my keyboard for those keys. It's amazing.
Your keyboard config is BRILLIANT. I'm using the Moergo Glove80 but also find it bulky like the Advantage 360, you might've convinced me to try the voyager.
Thanks man! Well, I hope you like it :)
nice overview and cool personality :)
Great video. The importance of exercise can’t be overstated. I used a split keyboard for years but my RSI didn’t improve until I addressed my posture through exercise. I still use a split keyboard ofc :)
What about moonlander?
Haven’t tried it.
Got the voyager 5 months ago and came here to be affirmed for my good decision. It has been a game changer. The first two weeks of configuring symbol layers for programming and getting used to typing on the linear layout were rough but after that everything from type speed to comfort has improved. Happy with my buy
Spot on. I love my voyager and I moved the alphas up one row too. I then got tilters so my keys form a key well. You're spot on about reducing finger movement. Having thumb keys you cannot reach is not ergonomic at all, and having 80 keys is the opposite of where you want to go once you're customizing the keys. And one thing many overlook... It's not that hard finding where all the keys are, because you put them there yourself.
I got this keyboard as my remote travel keyboard so I could use my moonlander for my home workstation permanently. I enjoy it so much that I am considering using it all the time haha such a quality keyboard and easy to travel with! Can't wait to try some new switches once the choc styles get more variety.
2:24 The Voyager has a "staggered columns" layout. The ortholinear layout is when all keys are arranged in a matrix without staggering.
where to buy this keyboard
I ordered from www.zsa.io/voyager
0:40 That is called "staggered rows" layout
I would love to hear your thoughts on why home row mods are not the way to go.
I have them setup now and love em except for the fact that I have to slowdown to type them otherwise I get the two letters instead of the modded shortcut.
Played around with tapping term setting but couldn’t find the sweet spot.
That is exactly the problem for me, that i need to slow down, it breaks my flow and like really bothers me. It feels laggy and I really dont want to have that on my keyboard.
I know people use it, but I personally really dont like.
@@inelpandzic Yup that's the issue. I'm considering trying a layout where all the letters are shifted up a row and the bottom row is used as modifiers.
@@JoseBrowne well that is exactly what I did :D
@@inelpandzic awesome, curios to hear your experience.
I liked your final message. It made me feel better spending 450 USD (including duties) for this keyboard 🙂 And I fully agree on the excercise issue.
Hey, glad it helped in spending your money :)
This is why I switched away from the moonlander to the corne 36 key. For me its perfect. I can see having the extra row and column for some users being a good compromise.
I would like to try corne 36, but I feel I will miss some keys. I would probably need to have home-row mods or something and I don't like that at all. The lag, even slightest, I notice it and it is bothering me a lot.
Kako si je nabavio i koliko je koštala nabavka? Verovatno sa njihovog sajta isporučuju u Nemačku ali nemam.pojma koliko je isporuka i carina
Narucio direkno, shipping je besplatan, ali sam naravno carinu platio.
@@inelpandzic hvala!
Ne salju za Srbiju... koji smor, Bosna - ok, Hrvatska - ok, Crna Gora - ok, Rumunija, Albanija, Madjarska, Bugarska, u sve zemlje salju osim u Srbiju
@@hpn1427posta naša Srbija rupa na tepihu Evrope ko što jedan nemudri čovek proreče. Eto ja radim u firmi koja ima web prodavnicu za kućne ljubimce i isporučuju u 30 zemalja Evrope ali ne u BiH, SR, MK, CG i Al. A imaju sad novo skladište u Mađarskoj za istočna tržišta. Nego ti nađi drugara u BiH ili negse drugde gde isporučuju... Ako si iz IT onda ti je svakako pola društva već vani.
Привет! What do u think about Dactyl Manuform?
Well I would like to try it out, but, similar as to Kineses that I have, I have feeling that it would be too bulky for me. And, also, I really don't want to program QMK by hand, tried it once and it wasn't fun at all :)
Great video! By the way, where is your { } in your configuration?
Thanks! So [ ]/{ } symbols are at the bottom row on right side, right bellow . and /.
Can you please share your own layout in Oryx?
Hey, here it is: configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/j9VB4/latest/0
hey, thanks for the video! How do you interact with trackpad with this kind of keyboard?
Focusing in not use the trackpad. Generally this type of keyboard is used by people that dont like to use mouse and trackpads
Hey thanks! I don't use trackpad unless I'm on my laptop. I use a mouse, but trying to use it as less as possible.
We have tried the ZSA Voyager too and we feel like an extra thumbkey on each side would have been nice. With only too, you rely a lot on using home row modifiers. We have a completely different approach in our keyboards (like the Dygma Defy) with up to 8 thumbkeys in each side. But the idea behind it is that you can use 4 or 5 comfortably. There are more so different people can reach different keys.
Hey @DygmaLab I was watching/waiting Defy like from the very beginning, but when I got this one I feel that 8 keys for each thumb is too much, at least for me. I generally like a minimalistic approach and with a good config, I don't think one needs many keys.
But honestly, I would like to try Defy, seems very very interesting. If you hook me up with one to try it out, I would be glad to share my thoughts on it :D
9:30 I own a Voyager and I believe that having the modifiers on the home row is absolutely a must. I am curious to know why you think they should not be used.
The reason why I don't like home row mods is because it bothers me to have some lag in my key presses and with home row mods you will have that lag, no matter how low you config the tap latency.
I really notice when I type and I come across keys like A, S, D or F (where my modifier key lived), it really annoys me.
My config does not have any of that and to achieve that, I shifted everything by one row, so I have my cmd and option keys in the lowest row. That gets me couple of things and the most important one is that now I don't need to have any key with multiple action and with that I don't have any lag at all.
With shifting everything now I also have my outer thumb-cluster keys used only for switching layers, with zero latency as well, so it is really cool to have nums and simbols like I have it now, really happy with it.
What I forgot to mention in the video is arrow keys - the way I have that configured is CTRL+H/J/K/L keys, like vim keys, and this config I have for years, have it even on my laptop. And since my CTRL key is in the caps lock position, having the ability to have vim movement system wide is a joy. I talk about this here: ruclips.net/video/ENMawni-VOA/видео.html
@@inelpandzic I would love to see a detailed walk through your config and your thoughts and experience with it. Also when shifting the home row up you will not have the thumb key in the right position. I do not get how that works.
Great video!
I want to eventually move over to these ergonomic split keyboards but haven't made the jump just yet. I'm okay with the steep learning curve, but the cost of these keyboards are definitely pricier. It's hard to commit to that without knowing for absolutely certainty that this is the way I want to go.
With that said, do you maybe have some recommendations for more budget friendly options? It would be good to try one for a few weeks before fully committing to purchase one of these more expensive ones.
Yes, committing to buying it was the biggest issue for me as well, especially since it is easy to think you will not like it.
Unfortunately I can't recommend anything like budget-friendly, simply because I don't think there is some. The only way is if you find something used.
But even if used it is also pretty expensive. My Ergodox was used and it was still pretty pricy.
My only recommendation is that you try to imagine your workflow, what exactly would you do, like open Oryx and configure your layout of choice and try to see will this improve things. I did exactly that. But the bottom line is like, you simply need to go for it and hope for the best :)
And like I sad in the video, I see this as an investment, if you buy and it works well for you, thats great, but also if it does not work for you, well you then at least know that it is not for you and you don't have to think about it anymore. And eventually you will sell it and get your money back.
@@inelpandzic thank you for the detailed response. I agree on your points and eventually do want to commit (and know I will need to do down the line anyway for the ergonomic benefits). I'm happy to make the investment and pull the trigger once work is a bit quieter 😛
Thanks for the info and subscribed!
I would second what Inel says, anything budget will not be up to par and may make you write off split ergo keyboards entirely.
There's only two I would recommend, the ZSA Voyager in the review here and the MoErgo Glove80 if you're willing to try a more full sized keyboard with a keywell.
I'm very happy with my Corne keyboard but I did have to solder a few components and learn to work with ZMK. It's not a walk in the park, but it was a rewarding experience once I got everything working. There are great communities on Discord willing to help with any troubles.