How Should We Treat the Non-Orthodox? Fr. Seraphim Rose Responds
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2020
- “I am deeply troubled,” a woman wrote Fr. Seraphim, “as to how Orthodoxy views what the world would call Western Christians, i.e., Protestants and Roman Catholics. I have read many articles by many Orthodox writers, and a few use words like ‘Papists,’ etc., which I find deeply disturbing and quite offensive. I find them offensive because as a person of a race (the woman writing is black) which has been subjected to much name-calling I despise and do not wish to adopt the habit of name-calling myself. Even ‘heretic’ disturbs me....Where do I stand with my friends and relatives? They do not know about Orthodoxy or they do not understand it. Yet they believe in and worship Christ.... Am I to treat my friends and relatives as if they have no God, no Christ?... Or can I call them Christians, but just ones who do not know the true Church?”
Fr. Seraphim Rose gives a pastoral response to a very real issue, still relevant of our day. In his response, Fr. Seraphim holds together in harmony things that are often in tension, showing us the royal path. If we can treat people the God would have us, more would come to Orthodoxy and find the joy we have find in Christ in His Church.
Read the text here: orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/how...
This text comes from “Father Seraphim Rose: His Life and Works” by Hieromonk Damascene, published by St. Herman Press in Platina, California (pp. 812-815).
This channel is dedicated to sharing the writings and lives of the Saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Glory to Jesus Christ!
Reading Fr Rose' books over the past few years has literally changed my life.
Have you visited Platina, yet? It’s a very special place and as far as I know they are still welcoming pilgrims, just not for overnight visits sadly. But still try to visit if you can.
@@OrthodoxWisdom well i live in Georgia, but if i ever make it out to northern California I'll give it a visit. Great content btw!
@@OrthodoxWisdom You just inspired me. I live on three hours from there and should visit. Thank Good it's still open it seems.
Please do! I also live three hours away in Sacramento. Even when I’ve made just a day trip I’ve been very blessed and felt like it was well worth it. A great local saint is buried there and one can get a sense of what he experienced there, especially by visiting his cell and old printshop. It’s a special place.
I share this opinion too!
I think what the Church offers us is a kind of "salvation for dummies". When I first converted, I was struck by how systemized the practice of Orthodoxy was. Recite these prayers at these times, don't eat xyz on these days, etc. What I realized is that these practices are meant to guide the average person closer to God. Most of us, in our ignorance and worldly pursuits, don't have the time or wisdom to answer questions like "how should I pray?" on our own. The Church offers us sacraments, spiritual practices, patristic wisdom and pastoral guidance as guard rails to keep us on the narrow path. In the end, however, it is God who determines who is saved.
Jesus word teaches us everything there is to know.
Those that search for me with all there heart say find me.
Pray in this manner......Lords prayer xxx
Absolutely wonderful explanation. God bless, brother.
You are totally healed when coming into the church. A spiritual hospital. The spirit healed, is what msot need.
what was it St Paiasios said? “one who speaks recklessly-even if he says true things-does evil?” im definitely learning that lesson as a new orthodox. ive been using the truth as an excuse to abuse others.
Woah. Thank you for opening my eyes too
Based. Thanks for posting. Fr. Seraphim Rose, pray for us!
I was just wondering this a couple hours ago and bam here it is
This is meant for you and to bring you to find the true path. You will by Jesus leading you, and by asking He can lead and will.
Wow, very wise words. Unfortunately it has become too easy for us to declare the other a heretic and show how better we are. This only brings harm. This is a sensitive issue. Thank you.
Yes, very easy to fall into Orthodox “piety”, or should I say, arrogance. I struggle with this. Lord have mercy.
I'm new to the Orthodox church inquiring. I will probably become catechumen. In my experience I have been welcomed and the tone in this Parrish about non Orthodox Christians tends to be one of tolerance and love. Hopeful that they can come to the true body of Christ. They have been very humble.
Yeah not gonna lie .. as someone who is interested in it but sees comments like “show how much better we are” makes me want to stay away lol
I literally just prayed for the intercession of Mt. Michael to show me the proper attitude to have toward the non orthodox. As I have been harsh in my words against protestants and Roman's. It become frustrating when non orthodox swear they have the truth especially protestants which have no historical roots to early Christianity. However, I realize this is a lack of patience on my part. Like teaching a child how to ride a bike for the first time. Thank you St. Michael for this prayer being answered now pray that the grace of God gives me the strength to follow these wise words. Of Fr. Seraphim Rose.
Not only that, but a rude attitude also pushes away these people. God does not love us anymore than he does Protestants and Catholics, nor should we ignore the differences in our theology.
@@theturtwig50 I agree. However, there comes a danger in choosing compromise in the truth for the sake of so called peace and love. Truth must never be compromised for the sake of worldly peace. The idea of ecumenism is the greatest threat to Orthodoxy. Look what it has done to the Roman church. I'd like to add I was Roman Catholic then went to several protestant churches for years until finding orthodoxy .
@@sinfulyetsaved Why is ecumenism exactly a threat? Is it not a wish for the Catholic and Orthodox Churches to get together again? I want this to happen, but at the same time we must be willing to admit the differences in our theology. The Orthodox should never just "accept" the Papal infability just to bring the Church together.
@@theturtwig50 that is a nice notion but unlikely, as there are major theological differences outside of just the Pope - most Roman Catholics think we have the same theology + Pope, but it is more complicated then this! You may enjoy these two podcasts by our late Fr Hopko - theologian, and former representative of the WCC. The WCC was the ecumenical participation of the Orthodox (several jurisdictions), so Fr Hopko - would have seen the churches reconcile, but not at the expense of the Orthodox Faith!
www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/what_does_rome_need_to_do_part_2
The transcript is available on the link, and part 1 is a good listen as well. It shows just how much differences exist with Rome vs the old united Church.
www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/what_does_rome_need_to_do_part_1
Discusses more what happened and historical Rome pre-schism, and how both churches understood Romes place in the Church.
They honestly just don't know .... Most just don't know
I remember hearing this story before becoming Orthodox, I hope to become an Catechumen soon
I'm a Roman Catholic.
God bless all my Orthodox brothers and sisters.
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.
Kyrie eleison.
The Pope "blessed" LGBTQ "merriages"
I had the exact same concerns as this woman. It’s amazing how urgently necessary Fr. Seraphim Rose’s words are for us these days.
May God’s Grace see Fr Seraphim glorified
It is not for us to define the state of those who are outside the Church. Divine Wisdom.
I completely disagree with this. All Holy Scripture and all the Fathers say completely differently.
This spoke to me. I am actually visiting a liturgy today in a Greek Orthodox setting
Omg!!!! I am literally overwhelmed from this video!!! I had those thoughts all those days and praying out of love for my heterodox friends to understand how God’s grace works outside Orthodoxy and if and how non orthodox Christians will be saved!! And I clicked to this video without even seeing the title of it, and I started hearing my questions through the lady’s letter and the answer!!! Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me! 🙏🏻 I love my non orthodox friends very much and I know God loves them more!!! I pray so my friends can understand and experience the fullness of Christianity in the Orthodox faith!!!🙏🏻
This is nonsense 😂
@@Saber23why do you speak evil of another man's joy? have they spoken evil of God? no. have they spoken evil of the Church? no. so why do you say that this is nonsense? is a God who answers the prayers of His people nonsense to you? you decide that for yourself. as for God, He is a God of wonders. and He is a God who avenges those who cry out to Him. what is wrong with what this person has said? tell me.
@@wretched67 he literally said non-orthodox will be saved, which is false
@@Saber23who are you, o man, who judges another and believes the same thing? the Scriptures declare that Christ is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe (supremely the Church). dont tell Jesus Christ who He can and cannot receive into His Kingdom. matter of fact, we both ought to be asking Him for mercy, because we ourselves are sinners. Jesus said strive to make sure that you make it through the narrow gate. make sure that you are on the narrow path. Don't worry about the salvation of the heterodox. that is the Lord's business. worry about yourself and struggle with your own sins. if you do this, you will do well. i suggest you speak to your spiritual father about this. ☦️
@@wretched67 you don’t believe the same thing dummy, that’s what makes you part of different churches
Thank you so much. I love fr. Seraphim Rose and consider all his teachings purely Orthodox. May our Lord help us walk that tight rope so that we don't look down at anyone who isn't Orthodox, nor compromise the truth of Orthodoxy in the name of "love" or "unity". Love at the expense of Truth isn't love!
Just remember, no one saint (or in this case, Father) has all the answers or can be 100% correct on all things.
Rumia Yes. That is a very good point.
@@theturtwig50 Mo...individuals don’t really matter to the Orthodox because we believe and cling to the consensus of the Church/ Church fathers.
I wonder then if it could be applied that truth at the expense of love isn't truth either. But rather only arrogant dogma. At least for those immensely weak/suffering and especially of the non-orthodox. Regardless, amen.
@@oofydoom
I tend to think that both expressions are valid and need each other because they express the boundaries of the Royal Path.
I believe that everyone should read his books. His books are important and very relevant today. Many people need them. We all need an Orthodox worldview, and nothing else. It is difficult, but with God everything is possible.
There is SO much heresy today. The temptation of the devil is massive. We must pray to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Most Holy Theotokos and all the Saints to protect us Eastern Orthodox. ☦️
Words spoken with great discernment, and should be understood and implemented with discernment from ourselves as well. Intercede for us, Holy Father Seraphim!
I needed to hear this… thank you
Wow never heard of Fr. Seraphim but now I want to read more. Any suggestions?
👍
I’d start with God’s Revelation to the Human Heart or Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. But any book of his you can get your hands on would be great. There is also much more you can listen to here on this channel as well as recorded talks of his on RUclips and apple podcasts.
Thank you for this video. It is a real blessing to me and I'm eager to read more from Father seraphim rose
This channel is great. God bless
Glory to God. I’m glad our efforts have helped you.
Wow. This couldn’t be more perfect.
If only we could apply these words of his to our true brothers, the Old-Calendarists. Fr. Seraphim himself considered them all brothers, particularly the moderate ones. I agree that some have gone off the path, but it's wrong of us to be so aggressive towards them. Let's pray that the Holy Seraphim help us by his prayers to sort this all out, and help the Church!
I love you forever and ever to eternity Father Seraphim.Pray for us,wait for us.Thank you God .Christ is risen from the death.Forgive us.
Thank you.
Thank you
Very wise writing from Fr Seraphim.
Blessings
Excellent
Glory to God ❤
Wow so wise
Amin! ☦
I liketo imagine the deviations of the church as promising students in a school. Will we argue over who is the best student or will we look foreward and learn?
The first orthodox parish wasn’t set up in America until 1864 in New Orleans. There was one in Alaska (at that time in Russia) founded in 1794. Which means the earliest orthodox parish was established for 302 years after Columbus discovered America.
Why would the one true church have waited so long to set up its first church in America if orthodoxy was the only true way to the full Christian life?
One reason is that God works with us. Ideally we would have done more, just like any other group of Christians, but at that time the Roman Empire was suffering and the Russian Church was reaching other parts of the world. Every group of Christians has their missionary pros and cons, and one great thing about Orthodoxy is that we focus on quality over quantity. It’s no trophy to create Christians in name only or Christians that aren’t struggling according to Christ. The history of Orthodox missions is very diverse and impressive, and some squabbles and mistakes take nothing away from the truth and beauty of the Orthodox Church.
Nowhere was this abhorrent behavior more realized than in the Orthodox Seminary -from a professor who used the word 'papist' to a maintenance man who mocked. Fortunately, I wrote it off because I realized they were ignorant beyond belief!
Amen
I'm so very perplexed I attend Salvation Army, about as un-orthodox as one can get. Baptised as a Baptist, I struggle with feeling I wasn't baptised correctly (wholey), and though I was taught the Lord's supper was symbolic, now we don't even do it (better to abstain than profane? God knows). I thought "Ahhh, Reformed teaches the narrow way yet shut the sinner out with God's impartial impartiality (saved because one is already saved, no freewill yet accountable) who can understand it? I'm in darkness and darkness in me and I can't reach the candle in the corner of my soul. Each one condemns the other and both ink & flesh are corrupted by preference, no one can be trusted no, not one, especially my own heart. I'm paralysed.
The Orthodox Church is the hospital for the spiritually ill. She is Christ’s Body on earth, His presence on earth. Please email me if I can help you find a local parish and/or speak with a local priest. I was once an evangelical and then reformed Protestant and was in despair over how to live as a Christian and find peace and stability. When I began to attend Orthodox services, pray the prayers of the Church, and make a beginning with fasting and prayer disciplines, I found these medicines foreign and bitter at first but quickly started to experience the healing that came from God through them. Please email me if you would like more help.
Christ alone. Faith alone. Scripture alone.
Do you have a link my brother ? To read this ? God bless you
www.scribd.com/document/440595158/Fr-Seraphim-Rose-His-Life-and-Works-pdf
@@OrthodoxWisdom Just saw your link. Just what I was looking for. Thank you!
I recall:
Luke 9:
51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.
WHAT VILLAGE DO YOU LIVE IN.
Hello, I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I bought three Seraphim Rose books from St. Herman’s monastery. I got God’s Revelation to the Human Heart, Nihilism, and Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. I’m not Orthodox I’m Roman Catholic
May God bless and enlighten you! Let me know your thoughts on Fr. Seraphim’s works at some point.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Will do
Hello! thank you for this lovely video! :)
But sometimes i wonder... what about those people, who will never even hear for Jesus (or also God?) For example some tribes in Africa or in Amazonia, also in india, China or tribes in Siberia with their shaman healer...? I guess at the end of the life is important, that you were a good human being and had an open heart and not judging others. :) Let's say that Christ is the only way to God, but many people wont even hear for him. Of course.. God will have the last word at the end :)
And we should be very happy for Jesus Christ...
As a Confessional Lutheran, the more I've learned about Eastern Orthodoxy, the less orthodox and more Pharisaical it comes across.
Can you provide an example?
What about how we should treat non-Christians?
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
The claim of the Orthodox Church to be the one, true, saved church appears self-affirming. Outside of themselves, is there a second witness to establish the truth of their assertion?
They are Pharisees.
Did those who rejected Christ believe He was the Messiah, the Light of the world? It’s not a matter of self-affirming or not, it’s a matter of what is true. Come and see. God is wondrous in His saints.
As a former reformed protestant and now someone leaning heavily in to Orthodoxy, it appears to me that their claim is a historically verifiable one.
@@bad_covfefe Roman Catholics make the same claim based upon "Tradition™️"
@@OrthodoxWisdomso the Orthodox Church is the one true church and rest of us can never be true Christians without it? So tell me. God cannot save people like me who live in parts of Africa with no orthodox churches? Or we can be saved but can never truly know God? See this is why I cannot with Orthodox Churches. Truly it seems to me you all espouse the prayer of the Pharisee “I thank you God that I am not like other men”
All Christian brothers and sisters need to come together, especially in these times.
It is impossible
We pray in front of icons; Protestants claim that they are idols.
How can we be together?
@@dragonfly464 We can come together on the common ground of Christianity, which is the message of Jesus in the gospels and his atoning work upon the cross. We don't have to argue or fight about what is the right way to worship, everyone should be free to choose what is most suited to their personality.
@@D-777i It is impossible because understanding of Gospels is completely different between us an Protestants.
God is The Truth. So it is impossible that completely different(even opposite) understanding are both True together.
@@dragonfly464 Yes, God and God alone is truth, not any man's perception or dogmatic doctrine of that truth. As long as all is done in love of God and love of all living beings, we are on the right path.
Look into Eugene’s relationship with Alan & at what point Eugene “walked away” from Alan…interesting how Alan never spoke of Eugene moving on 🤔 but Eugene made it a point to “call out “ Alan 🙄 and his human shortcomings…interesting Father Rose to do so…☦️☯️🛐🕎☪️✡️✝️👽
just say what you want to say. Coding speech like a spy behind enemy lines does not make you any cooler a person
it just makes it seem like you have schizophrenia
I am thinking seriously of converting to the Orthodox Church. I "am" 'Roman' Catholic but I see many errors in the Novus Ordo.
God welcomes you with open arms! He stands at the door and knocks and you are opening the door to Him. Please find a good priest to speak with and attend the services. Let us know if we can help you.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you! It "feels" like my eyes are being Opened for the very first time. It astonishes me that a Church from the time of the Apostles 'Still Is' and has Not altered its Doctrine to "suit Modern Views", exists in this day and age!
@@Cube_Ernator1077 Come and see! I came from the Roman Catholic Church and yes, your eyes and ears will be opened. I am in love with God. I think that you're ready.
Christ is Risen, Risen Indeed. Dear Brother/Sister in Christ. Am still praying for you every day. God bless your journey. Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner 💖🙏
My friend, did you became a catechumen? Kind regards from Sanya
What was Seraphim Rose's view of Augustine? I know he wrote a book on it and I'll read it eventually but I'm currently trying to avoid spending on nonessentials. If anyone can give me a oversimplified answer I'd appreciate it.
He’s a Saint who made some errors.
Does this channel have an email for questions???
orthodoxwisdom1@gmail.com
Wonderful response. I'm a catachumen myself, but all my relatives are pentecostal charismatics. Like the woman in the letter, i have struggled with the view that the orthodox church is indeed the true church, but what does that mean for my family? In my experience, i can say for a fact that they truly love the Lord. I also know that the Lord has transformed them for the better. So ill do my best to show them the fruits of the true church of Christ and trust that God will judge them fairly.
But they are going to hell, verry pitty. It is sad that st. Seraphim (Rose) wrote such letter in name of politness. But Saint Fathers said completelly differently
Is there any place where Fr. Seraphim discussed the energy-essence distinction of Palamas? As a Roman Catholic feeling drawn to Orthodoxy I'm finding it to be a stumbling block. Is it really a major doctrinal difference or something closer to semantics?
eensrds, excellent question. I'm not aware of Fr. Seraphim writing on this topic. Surely he agreed with it and lived it, but I'm not aware of any writings of his on this.
I would suggest you read St. Gregory Palamas himself. You can find PDFs of his main works on the topic, the "Triads" and "Dialogue Between an Orthodox and a Barlaamite," here: mega.nz/folder/yJ40waiQ#bEIcebOBzmaoZGH9vHMo4A/folder/6Ex2BCRI
I'm not the bet suited to speak definitely on this issue but what I can say with confidence is that the issue of the essence-energy distinction is part of Orthodox doctrine and I believe in many cases is much more than semantics. The essence-energy distinction is key to our salvation because it expresses the reality that we can commune with God Himself and not merely his creation. Where I can't speak as definitively as I would like is on the Catholic understanding of this issue. I've heard from some Catholics that we essentially believe the same thing, and others that there are major differences. I think if you read the primary texts, Palamas being one (and he is not creating any new doctrine here, just rehashing Orthodox doctrine for his day), you will be able to see better not only what the Orthodox believe, but then be able to compare that to your understanding of the Catholic position.
One other link is my recording here "Theosis: The True Purpose of Human Life" by Elder George of Mt. Athos, you can find a shorter explanation in the context of what human life is all about.
Let me know if this helps. I'd be interested to hear your feedback.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you so much for the sources you provide and the explanation. I listened to the Theosis videos and ordered the book Triads. Deep stuff and I'll be at it for a long time. I thank God for the grace to find this more interesting than what the world has to offer. The more I learn and ponder the more drawn I become to Orthodoxy.
St. Palamas reminds me of the Roman Catholic saint (mystic and Doctor of the Church) St. John of the Cross and one of his books in particular: Dark Night of the Soul. He describes a monastic method of prayer in 3 stages leading to God: Purgative, Illuminative, and Unitive. Can't say it's the same, but I notice the similarities.
@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese Thanks for this info. I'm well-versed in traditional (pre-Vatican II) Catholicism and understood the other theological differences. But this one doesn't seem to get much attention. Glad I looked into this and read The Triads and related books. I was specifically wondering if Fr. Seraphim Rose had written on this subject and knew that he'd have a fully Orthodox view.
@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese How can Orthodoxy dogmatically affirm essence-energy when there has not been a Council to determine it?
Councils are not generally called to define something already known, rather to defend something being attacked by heretics. Also, St. Gregory Palamas has an entire Sunday in Lent dedicated to him, which is signpost that his teaching is the teaching of the Church. When something enters to the universal hymnography it is an expression of universal dogma.
Mark 9:
38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”
39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against us is on our side. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.
❤️☦️
Seraphim Rose 🌹
How come he is using two titles for his name ?
Why is he saying what he is saying by using those two names .
Anyone point me in the direction to find out why he is called what he is called
Thanks..
Rose is/was his American secular surname. you may refer to him as Hieromonk Seraphim of Platina.
Can we pray with non orthodox? Old friends or family?
not they are heretics, but keep silense :)))
What Fr Seraphim was answering in private to people's letters to soothe them may not represent his public point of view, his teaching of faith (that he offered in his conferences and articles and all texts publlished or aimed at being published). Holy Church Fathers explain that correcting a heretic is an act of love for them, as St Paul says in his letters, and a heretic who refuses correction should be seen as a pagan. There is no evidence that Fr Seraphim ever promoted any other theological teaching than this.
Amen!
As potential Orthodox.
I wonder how controversial Fr Seraphim Rose is outside of the west
Not nearly as much. He is beloved in traditionally Orthodox countries
There is only one church and that is the church of Jesus Christ.
Catholic Catechumen here.
Catholics are harnessing the same attitude as far as I can see.
I myself deviate a bit from the churches teaching on that matter. I consider the orthodox as well as the catholic and maybe even some of the protestant confessions to be authentic communities, out to follow the Christ and insofar authentic and 'true' churches. This of course is close to some modernist 'ecumenical' claims. But I dont want my position to be confused with that.
It's not 'all the same' and you shall not pick and choose your favorite bits out of any tradition to syncretize your personal Christianity. On the contrary: You are obliged to follow your tradition as carefully and sincere as you are able to, offer your life to Christ and utlimately ask him for advise on your way to sanctification/theosis.
He may reveal some day to us Catholics the falseness of our way and the truth of the Orthodox one - or the other way around. But I tend more to another option: As saint Paul says: there is a multiplicity of Charismata. The Orthodox as a whole serve a special Charisma (one could call it the hesychastic, spiritual or mystic Charisma) and the Catholics do as well (the Catholic one could be called the intellectual, philosophical or theoretical charisma). It may be the case, that the ongoing spiritual warfare is only to survive, if we manage to coalesce - NOT identify - our respective Charismata into a true christian fortress against the falseness of our current world.
May the grace of the Lord shine upon You.
Best regards from Germany
I pray you find the humility to sit at the feet of the Saints. The Saints of the Orthodox Church, the only Saints, do not allow for such a creative and innovative “new” interpretation. The Body of Christ is not divided and not a mixture of truth and heresy. The ecclesiology you have described is not inspired by God and finds its end in supporting the rise of Antichrist, a very religious man who will unite the various religions. I recognize my words are blunt. My prayer is that they a true medicine, even if the taste is bitter.
@@OrthodoxWisdom I am well aware of this notion. But I honestly cannot believe that St. Francis of Assisi or St. Anthony of Kiev are anything less holy than let's say St. Cosmas of Aetolia.
I know you wont agree with me and I may be false as Hell.
But I found to Christ as much through the staggering beauty of ancient Roman Catholicism as through the no less beautifull and insightfull Orthodox Church.
Whats even about the Kopts and the Aethiopian Orthodox Church? I think they are not officially in Communio with the Russian-Greek-Axis. But would you consider them to be 'heretics'?
I certainly wont.
@@corvinrick3644 We can appreciate their traditions and practices, but this does not mean they are a part of the Orthodox Church. Oriental "Orthodoxy" are Miaphysites, and they worship a heterodox account of Christ. As Orthodox Christians, we pray for their return to Holy Orthodoxy. However, to satiate them and other heterodox positions because you feel some affinity towards them not only affirms heterodox positions, it undermines Orthodoxy and jeopardizes your own faith.
What about the Copts and Ethiopians? Name some contemporary Coptic saints and Ethiopian saints please, that might be a beginning of wisdom.
It was the Coptic Christians beheaded on the beaches of Egypt by ISIS. They would not renounce Jesus. Are they not part of the Church?
I was shown yesterday how much our Father loves His little lost sheep. Held hostage to demons by their own hand! And so many believe they are christian! His sadness is beyond comprehension. But they are choosing to be with demons! Outside of our material help. Prayer and forgiveness from us who are with God is what can be constantly given.
Glory to God!
>I find it offensive
Opinion discarded.
You’re offended by gay people existing
Who are you to say that Orthodox Church is the only serous sacrament given and not the Catholic Church too? Of course they are both serious sacraments, and anywhere else where the sacraments are given.
The Pope + LGBTQ+ etc, agreee, really? )
There is no such thing other Christians. There is only one Christian church
One body different parts.
If you know christ you are his.
Religion fractions let's say cause arguments.
Like the thief on the cross had no denomination.
Just his faith and belief.
He defo wasn't orthodox ha ha
God bless
In my experience presenting orthodoxy to Protestants has been like casting pearls to swine. They absolutely reject it and are even repulsed by it. I don't oppose the anathema's spoken against them each year by our bishops.
I'm a former lifelong protestant and was baptized into the Orthodox Church three weeks ago on Holy Saturday.
I love the Church and wish to not be a part of anything else. Please do not judge or lose patience. There are many protestant converts to the True Faith. Many of us have been searching for this, brother! Please love and do not judge them.
@@Ioannikios174 I'm so happy to hear you accepted the true faith. I know how it is though I was baptized Orthodox as a baby it was more of a Serbian thing, my mother and father never took me to church after that. I was Protestant for more than 20 years until orthodoxy was explained to me. I took to it right away. Maybe it's because I was sealed with the holy Spirit as a baby so it was natural for me to be orthodox. I know there are many converts from the Protestants, however from my own experience not one has ever responded positively to the true faith. I haven't preached to thousands of them not even close but to the ones I have spoken with not one of them wants anything to do with it.
I didn't judge them in my comment I just state the fact they are anathema. I do lose my patience however. That is one area I should work on.
Since you have become Orthodox I'm sure you have reached out to your Protestant friends. have you found what I say to be true or false? Are they coming to the true Faith or are they repulsed by it from your experience?
Curses against Protestants are spoken against them each year by the bishops??
@@thestraightroad305 they're called, "Anathemas". in the scriptures we read that Jesus gave authority to the apostles, "what you bind on Earth will be bound in heaven and what you lose on Earth will be loosed in heaven". also "whomsoevers sins you remit will be remitted and whomsoevers sins you retain will be retained".
you can search for yourself on RUclips "Russian Orthodox anathemas" and see them read for yourself. the bishop will read through a long list including Protestants atheists communists darwinists Roman Catholics Church of latter-day saints Mormons heretics etc etc...
@@radvlad1431 I see. Thank you.
Is he a saint? if not he should be!
Yes :)
Pardon me, only "Blessed" so far but on the way to sainthood
How they treated the others Christians like apostate when they live in their countries without nothing from others Christians. Why they never sends missionaries to others lands Europe Asia and when the new world was discovered the Orthodox Church never bothered to send missionaries only the Roman Catholic and now they called others Christians heresy. Why they not preach the gospel to others nation only when the orthodox people started to inmigrantes to others lands.
Us Catholics see the Orthodox as schismatics.
I'm a Byzantine Catholic. We're pretty much both. I love the rich cultures of both😊
It is laughable as back in 11th century Roman see was kicked out by 4 Eastern Orthodox sees.
Why is everything in abrahamic religions and pretty much all other ones so male dominated?
It’s very easy to point out how man rule the church.
Just let the boys talk to god in the altar and put woman to the side in the quire.
Men don’t just have authority in the Church, they have authority in the entire world. Men fight the wars, build the cities, and enforce the laws, among other things. This isn’t an impassioned statement, it’s simply a fact to accept.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Ahhh there it is. Fighting Wars and enforcing laws. Your veil of this illusion is even obvious to yourself.
I can see advantage in men fighting a war and building infrastructure. Why are predominantly men needed for Law enforcing? Let me guess because god is a men?
Sounds as though in this faith woman are second class citizens.
But what do I know? Im simply not privileged to see your enlightened point of view.
Side note.The title of this video should inform the viewer with everything them need to know about narcissism of this dogma.
I like the Orthodox church, but wish the communion was served by intinction of the host into the wine and then placed on the tongue. I don't even kiss people, and can't fathom sharing saliva with 100 strangers. 😢
The grace of God covers all who partake. There is no reason to fear. Crucify your intellect and push yourself to have faith. If you can do this before entering the Church you’ll be ready to receive the grace of the Eucharist.
I am so glad that God is so much greater than these doctrines. At least he knows that God is sovereign. Eastern orthodoxy is not even united and does not evangelize. But they expect every Christian to convert to them?
We are united by Christ in the common cup and by the common truths committed to us by the Fathers. We have heresy among certain Orthodox Christians but St. Paul said “there must be factions among you.” This is a paradox, and all other confessions are also prone to human weakness.
We certainly do evangelize, just not always in the way you might expect. I do acknowledge we could do better. Yet, there are Orthodox missions across the world and great examples of missionaries, such as St. Herman of Alaska and St. Nicholas of Japan. Orthodoxy is beauty not of this world, beauty which doesn’t fade. I used to not understand this, but by God grace, prayer, spiritual enlightenment through the services and divine teachings I have come to see that Orthodoxy is Christ’s Body.
@@OrthodoxWisdom There is for example a schism between the Russian orthodox church and the Ukrainian orthodox church because of political reasons. And there is de facto a schism between the Greek orthodox and the Russian orthodox church. No, there is no widespread evangelization of the orthodox churches. Just compare that with the Roman Catholic Church which is the only really "Catholic" church. Evangelical Churches are second on number. But eastern Orthodoxy still is an exotic branch of Christianity.
@@brotherandrew3393 By reading your comments, you clearly do not know the history of the One True Church: The Orthodox Church and make assumptions about many things. I urge you to kindly find an Orthodox priest who can help you and put your suspicions and misconceptions to rest.
@@Kyriakyriaki-onlyaservant Well, I was watching tons of videos about orthodoxy on you tube which have been created by orthodox sources to explain and promote their faith. So I guess I m not this uneducated as you may think. The next Russian Orthodox parish in my neighborhood does not want people who do not belong to it to come and I only could profit in any way from them if I would speak and understand the Russian language. As I said: They do not evangelize. They have their own culture and their own "club" in which there are Russian immigrants and they do not want to be disturbed. That is a fact whether you like it or not. I don´t care.
@@OrthodoxWisdom as someone attracted to Orthodoxy, I am confounded by the statement in one of the comments that anathema (curses) are pronounced every year by the bishops against Protestants. This make me want to weep. Is this true? If it is, how is it to be explained?
Isnt it funny that most of "eastern" orthodox christians are westeners from europe, and most of "western" protestant and catholic christians are from east, that is middle east and asia.
We are not supposed to argue between the faith with other Christians. Concerning what is a correct church. All are one in Christ Jesus. It is prideful and arrogant to say otherwise. If you follow Biblical scripture you should know the truth. For all that eat the body and blood of Jesus Christ and believe in him are saved. It is about faith via your heart casting off your sins via repentance. Jesus said I will take out your heart of stone, and give you a new heart, one of flesh. Denominations are not mentioned.
Given Kirill's support for Putin's murderous war these words seem a bit empty.
Don’t judge Pat. Kiril
@@neame-bh3uq Why can't I judge Patriarch Kirill? The religious title before his name doesn't exempt from being human like the rest of us. I don't believe in using exalted religious leaders to judge Christianity. I believe in using Christianity to judge exalted religious leaders.
@@williamjarrell3541 have you read any of this homilies?
@@noway165 Whose homilies? Seraphim Rose's or Kirill's? I can't say that I've read any of Seraphim Rose's homilies. Even if they are admirable, it doesn't negate the fact that Kirill is a hack who cares more about serving Vladimir Putin than Jesus Christ.
Beware of the mainstream media propaganda. It's run by Satan's people (St. John 8:44), just like Ukraine.
I study and follow the early desert Fathers on the model of JOHN THE BAPTIST and others. These hermit monks belong to no "religious organizations' but rather followed the teaching of JESUS. WHEN ONE COMES TO CHRIST and REPENTS and ask JESUS to accept them, they become part of THE BODY OF CHRIST... I love to study the Orthodox teachings and have learned a lot but, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, I WILL REMAIN IN MY "CELL" and away from the world 🌎 and join "NO religion." I commit myself to JESUS ONLY....BROTHER JAMES 🙏🦉
Just as one had to get up and go to where Jesus Christ was during his earthly life, where he was in one place and not another, so too must we get up and go to His Church which is His Body. One cannot join the Body of Christ by believing in Jesus only, one must put Him on in baptism, and eat of His Flesh and Blood, for if we do not do this, as He said, we have no Life in us.
@@OrthodoxWisdom I do all these things and more... Study the "DESERT FATHERS" and maybe then you'll understand? Bottom line: WE ARE NOT THE SAME IN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE CHURCH... Please do not reply to me anymore. I WILL NOT "BATTLE WITH YOU...."
🙏🦉
I’m confused. You comment on my video and then you tell me I can’t reply to you anymore? Please explain further
The very question itself implies a boatload of arrogance on the part of the Orthodox. The very thought that you should treat anyone differently because they’re not of your religion is disgusting. Even when Seraphim Rose talked about the saint who remained orthodox but treated the Catholics nicely was just as arrogant as anything else. Was it some sort of wonderful thing that he treated people nicely because they weren’t orthodox? Little bit ridiculous. Religion is quite divisive.
If you are Atheist, you have no room to judge Fr Seraphim, because your worldview is a rejection of value judgments through a rejection of inherent morality
@@neame-bh3uq If I were judging by my own beliefs or “standards”, you would be absolutely correct. In fact, I am an amoralist, so I don’t believe in a moral vrs immoral dichotomy. I’m simply applying the dogma of the religion (which claims morality) to itself. It condemns itself, I do not.
Just as the religious hope to evangelize to influence the beliefs of others, I hope to show people that religion can bring great pain and misery. Temporal pain and misery might be worth going through if Christianity were true, but it is not. There is no evidence for the truth of Christianity that isn’t far more easily explained in the light of naturalism.
I was a Christian for many years (including 10 years as an Orthodox Christian) and saw the damage that it does to the person. I hope to give a alternative perspective from outside of religion to those who are questioning.
@@neame-bh3uq It’s also quite telling that your response was one addressing my ability to judge rather than addressing the vality of my points.
@@singwithpowerinfo5815 Fr Seraphim is completely orthodox in what he is teaching here, just because you have your own idea of Christianity doesn’t mean anything 💀 cry abt it
@@singwithpowerinfo5815 Why is damaging a person wrong?
Heretics complain to be heretics :) Fine, no problem - go to the True Church and not be an Heretic :))
IM Orthadox and i think this fr. was pompus and pridful ,,sorry folks Sommeday i hope tp see him and tell him to his face
Wow you don't sound Orthodox at all
And yet Y'e'shua Christ Jesus tells us, "call no man father, for you have but one father and He is in heaven."
The Nicolaetons during Paul's time were reviving the old priesthood which Christ did away with when Christ became our high priest. Paul teaches that God hates the Nicolaetons and to avoid them. Yet here were are with both orthodoxy & papacy following a sect of priesthood of men. Scripture teaches us that Christ is our intercessor & high priest. The holy spirit is our teacher. And God in heaven is our Father. Christ also teaches us in scripture that God is spirit and those whom worship Him must worship Him in spirit & in truth. And Christ commands us to call no man father for we have only one father and He is in heaven. Amen. 🔥➕💜
This is tier 101 Protestant criticism, you clearly did not take even 5 minutes to review what the Orthodox position is.
Since you've used common scriptural tropes about "Calling no man Father", let's look into that more. OK, so you take this scripture literally. Do you call your Father Bob, or Tom? It states "No man" after all, meaning none.
More importantly, does St. Paul commit grave error when he writes "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." 1 corinthians 4:14-15. He is their spiritual father. The "Call no man Father" is in the Gospel with regard to the Father as the ultimate master of all, not to abolish the term "Father" from language itself. This is the correct interpretation.
The Protestant Reformers began interpreting things in new, novel ways. They wanted to be rid of Papal Authority, and I can't blame them, this is the reason the Roman Catholics split off from Orthodoxy in 1054 a.d, the Orthodox would not listen to one man, who was the Bishop of Rome, who now claimed to be Supreme - later infallible. That's not how the Church operated for the first 1,000 years. No one man was supreme, nor is it monolothic, it was and remains synodical in Orthodoxy.
"One Mediator". First, this is in reference to Christ being fully man and fully God, which some, if not most Protestants accept - but some definetly deny. Christ is incarnate as both fully God and fully Man, because in Him divinity and humanity are forever joined; in Him mankind is connected to God in a way that no one else can come close to; there is no other way to the Father but through the Son. However, taking one verse out of context leads to error. Even the evil one himself isolated verses to quote to Christ. The context is important; there is one mediator, yes, but many intercessors: one need only look to the verses immediately prior to that statement to find: "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:1-4. St. James also tells us that "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" James 5:16. So clearly the fact that Christians are called upon to make supplications, prayers, and intercessions on behalf of others is not a contradiction to Christ being the one mediator. Surely, you've asked others to pray for you or prayed for others.
If you take your faith as seriously as you indicated in your comment, then you cannot run away from the first 1,000 years of the Church. It's no accident that you left a comment on an Orthodox Channel. Visit a local Orthodox Church and find out more.
The Church of Christ is still with us, I couldn't believe it myself when I found out.
Papist are papist. It's a distinction. It's not even rude, and they're not Christians.
sorry, but Orthodoxy debunked in 1 sentence: Whoever celebrates pagan feats (such as christmas,easter,SUNday...) isn't a follower of YESHUA haMASHIACH!
So it is wrong to celebrate the Nativity of Our Lord, who chose to humble Himself to be born a baby, or to celebrate his Glorious Resurrection, after suffering the most cruel persecution by men, to celebrate on the day of the week His Resurrection was discovered?
Kind of seems to lack sincerity. Should we not celebrate these Glorious Mysteries?
Love!
bruh
Just because those feasts are close to when pagan festivals happened doesn't take away from what they celebrate: the birth, Resurrection, and the day His Resurrection was discovered. They celebrate Jesus Christ, nothing pagan about it
"I can post a low IQ take and type 'Jesus Christ' all fancy-shmancy!"
2000 years of Church history refuted.
Go away 7th day heretic
1. What was Reuben calling........
2. What was Simeon calling.......
3.what was Levi calling........
4. What was Judah calling......
5. What was Issachar calling.....
6. What was Zebulun calling.....
7. What was Dan calling......
8. What was Gad calling......
9. What was Asher calling.....
10. What was Napthali calling....
11. What was Joseph calling......
12. What was Benjamin calling......
Each tribe has a specific calling from GOD.....calling such as sonship....watchman...and high priest. .....