House Division Calculations in Astrology Explained
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- In episode 313 astrologer Luís Ribeiro joins the show to explain the astronomy and mathematics underlying the calculation of the different forms of house division in western astrology.
We begin with a historical timeline showing when some of the different forms of house division were introduced, who the earliest sources are that mention them, and the time periods in which they reached the peak of their popularity.
Then we go into a detailed breakdown of the astronomy and mathematics underlying how some of the most popular forms of house division are calculated.
We focus in particular on the rationale for whole sign houses, equal houses, Porphyry houses, Alcabitius, Campanus, Regiomantanus, and Placidus.
Our goal was not necessarily to advocate for any one system or talk about which was better to use in practice, but instead to help astrologers understand how the cusps are divided according to each approach.
Towards the end of the episode we have a section talking about an astronomical instrument called an astrolabe, and showing how medieval astrologers used it in order to calculate the Ascendant, Midheaven, and other intermediate house cusps.
For more info about Luis and his work visit:
academyofastrology.eu
See the podcast website for more on this episode:
theastrologypodcast.com/2021/...
Please be sure to like and subscribe!
#TheAstrologyPodcast
Timestamps
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:00 Luis' book On the Heavenly Spheres
00:01:50 Luis' research on the astronomical rationale for house division
00:04:18 Understanding the basis of house division systems
00:05:04 Why astrology students should learn astronomy
00:07:20 Famous astrologers who were astronomers
00:08:40 Requirement to draw charts by hand in some schools
00:11:45 Different types of house systems
00:14:30 House division methods through time
00:17:38 Whole sign house system and its disappearance
00:20:55 Equal house system
00:29:50 Porphyry house system
00:33:57 Alcabitius house system
00:41:03 Works on house division systems
00:43:40 Whole sign not considered a house division by some academics
00:51:25 1959 German book that acknowledges whole sign houses
00:54:03 Campanus house system
00:57:00 Regiomontanus house system
01:05:50 Astro.com house system options
01:07:30 Solar Fire house system options
01:09:34 Placidus house system
01:14:26 Primary or diurnal movement
01:17:47 The ecliptic
01:22:27 Numbering of the houses
01:27:03 Dividing the circle
01:31:43 View of ecliptic from astronomy program
01:39:59 The meridian
01:44:50 Square chart example
01:46:40 3D diagram of the divisions
01:50:00 Zenith
01:53:00 Equator
01:54:05 Equator view from astronomy software
01:56:40 View from the north in the astronomy software
01:59:10 The zodiacal belt
02:00:43 2D diagram of the divisions
02:02:09 Whole sign method
02:04:48 Equal Houses method
02:08:12 Porphyry method
02:14:44 Alcabitius method
02:19:20 Campanus method
02:24:19 Regiomontanus method
02:28:32 Placidus method
02:38:39 Length of life technique and house division
02:54:30 Better documentation needed of house systems
02:55:45 Bias in academic research
02:57:42 Errors in descriptions of house systems
03:03:33 Different cusps
03:04:36 Astrolabe basics
03:14:10 Calculating houses with an astrolabe
03:26:18 Horary astrology and the astrolabe
03:29:00 Astrology boards
03:32:07 Astrology in academia
03:34:11 The challenge of different house systems
03:38:50 Different house systems for horary and natal
03:45:31 Revised version of Luis' book
03:46:00 Luis' website and Astro Project
03:46:43 Upcoming episode on Helena's work and new book
03:47:55 Closing remarks
Let us know what system or systems of house division you use below! Also let us know if you have any questions!
Whole Sign Houses and sometimes Koch.
Grew on Placidus because astrodienst. Tried whole sign after watching your houses, signs planets cast with Kelly and Austin and I like it a lot. I am biased as I like the story my chart tells in whole sign which is even funnier than Placidus.
All in all each system adds its own perspective. I cannot say one is more accurate. Now I am studying Uranian which has no houses and signs at all so that's a shift in thinking as well.
Very interesting topic! Thanks for sharing so much technical details/topics on the cast. It is good food for the astro geeks.
Whole Sign House and Placidus, Regiomontanus for Horary, and a consideration of all for every read, purpose and need.
If only we had the charts of exact time of each house system..
Hey there, good to see you doing well! By the way, although it would be in some ways a little boring, I agree with you there, I have to admit that there is a part of me that has been very curious to see how that clock actually works from the inside...Since childhood I always like to open things up to find out how they're actually made, done or work, so yay, an explanation on how to draw our own chart from scratch would be very good and helpful even though I am not exceptionally incline to math I still can take simple stuff as long as we're not diving into trigonometry, thank you for your care and for share Chriss!
Ps: You are both right about this, in my opinion too I think it is important to know how to pull our own chart even without the computer and even if we might end up not using it too often, at least there will be some bare basic there to help us lay better foundations.
Whole sign and placidus
This is QUALITY.
I would absolutely love the episode about calculating charts by hand!
I've learned how to calculate a few things in order to understand them better, like the lots and harmonics (I was going through a phase), which of course are pretty simple to calculate, but it was very useful to train doing maths in terms of degrees. So yeah, learning how to do the whole chart would be pretty awesome!
yes!
Muriel are you on Instagram?
Yea i want that boring podcast about how to calculate charts by hand, in any form it takes!
Agreed. I'll second that vote! And it would not be boring, I'm sure we'll all be hanging on the edge of our seats🤤🤣🤓📚📝💰🙏🏾
Me too!!
Agreed!
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yea the astrology podcast trolling now 😂😂
My condolences on your loss Luis. Thank you to both you and Chris for a highly informative episode.
‘On the heavenly spheres’ was my first astrology study-book. It is Amazing, so understandable and clearly written. ThankYou for passing on thhe Knowledge Mr Ribeiro and Mrs Avelar 🙏
Apparently you should also get their companion book for reading On the Heavenly Spheres, do you think one can only do with the latter book alone?
@@user-ky8ym7le9m hello,
I did not get the companion book.
It takes some time to absorb the info, maybe u could order just the first book and work with it… if u notice that u might not grasp the concepts well u always can order the companion book.
It depends on how deep you wanna go with it…
I would love an episode or a few on calculating charts by hand!
Yesssss please a session on how to calculate charts BY HAND💖Please and thank you so very much...... P.s. I could listen to ur guest speak for hours🌹 That voice☺
Voices are incredibly personal and individual. 😀♌⛎🔯🔱
29:43 Yes, exactly! people don't use the whole sign house system for its simplicity, we use because it works better, it is more clear and coherent... even when we are aware of others systems we stick with this system! the choice is simple not the system :D
i just switched to whole sign from placidus, and i love whole signs!
But what about planets that have risen over the horizon still considered as first house?
Or planets under the horizon that have set, invisible, and still considered in the 7th?
Whole sign houses works very good . Thanks the two of you very intresting good work ❤️❤️
Thank you so much for this episode, Chris and Luis! Amazing visuals and even more amazing content. I did not notice how the time flew by.
This was an epic meeting of two great voices in astrology, fantastic! Would love to see you both together again in future podcast episodes! Thank you! x
Wow! This has got to be one of my all time favorite episodes. It was super fascinating being able to visualize the way houses were divided. And awesome to insert historical information as always. Those image animations were super helpful; great presentation… will definitely be rewatching again :) ✨
I went to school in 1978-80. We learned but i since cant remember.
I think the great part for people is that you can check the math with the computer.
I love this video. Finally the illustrations helped me to get the difference between the house systems. In most books, the differences are poorly explained and there are rarely figures showing what exactly happens in the sky. No wonder a mathematical dummy like me didn't get it.
I would love an episode about how to calculate a chart by hand.
I've been waiting for years for this kind of explanation of the house systems, this has brought so much clarity to my mind, thank you!
I didn't know how important this information is!! Thank you so much you two!
I really enjoyed this discussion. Thank you so much! Really clear descriptions and beautifully illustrated with visuals and examples. You both have such pleasant, soothing voices and communication styles 🌟 chart calculation demonstration would not be too boring for me 🤩
Wow, thank you both for a generous, comprehensive overview of the house systems. I don't know how you can go on for 4 hours without taking a break! I greatly appreciate the helpful visuals to explain the differences between the systems. My sincerest condolences to Luis, and I look forward to learning more about his and his late partner's work in your other videos! 🙏
Thank you, for this and the other podcasts. love them all. Yes, please have a talk/Demo on manually calculating the Natal chart.
A Brilliant and Beautiful episode! Thank you. The visuals were soooo amazing and informative.
Eyes Wide Open. Thank you Luis and Chris. I had been using the Koch House System since 1985, when I picked up The Koch Book Of Tables, and learned how to cast a natal horoscope. After this podcast, I will experiment with other house systems, (e.g., Whole Sign, Alcabitius, etc). I enjoyed this podcast very much. Thanks, again.
I was thinking about that...and then you post a class about it. Fantastic! 👌
I'm so stoked to watch this. Thank you!
I'm writing early in the broadcast to say, yes, I think it would be wonderful and important for you to have a show on how to hand draw a chart from tables, Chris.
Hey Chris - Thank you so much for this episode. Finally house systems explained in a way I could understand! The astrolabe explanation was also very interesting. Thanks again.
I’d like a chart calculation episode. And thank you so much for for your work, I’ve learned so much. Got your book.
I use Porphyry because my teacher recommended it, but I am not particularly attached. I would love to learn more about calculating charts by hand. That seems to be a most valuable skill for an astrologer! Thank you so much for this episode and all of your amazing episodes. I learn so much from this podcast!
This is the BEST thing I've ever seen. There are no words. THANK YOU!
I wonder how many hours of my life have sat in front of my TV watching your podcasts??? What's a few more? Of course I would love a series on writing a chart!! I really appreciate all your podcasts Chris, I've learned so much over these last couple of years. I'm never board. Thanks again 😎🤩
Such a fascinating episode thanks for such great content. Took me down a deep rabbit hole of possibilities and theories.
Wow, what a surprising episode. I wasn’t expecting to the technology - so interesting. Thanks for persisting with the preparation to make this production.
This is so interesting. The technical interviews are really valued. It would be amazing to see a video of how to calculate a chart. Thanks for another incredible episode.
I do whole sign houses. This edition has prompted me to try others.
yes please! The way the Astrology Podcast would present house calculations would be an amazing opportunity and learning experience
So glad I found this. I am just starting my journey with astrology. I reread the first part of my book thinking I missed something reading about houses. I didn’t miss it because the information wasn’t there. It is very confusing being new to have one system say my moon was in 3 various houses depending on the house system.
I could understand what was being explained in this video. I thank you very much. I did have to watch it at 3 different time intervals to allow myself to absorb the new to me information.
What an enlightening episode! Kudos Chris! Luis is Amazing; Erudition Personified ! Thanks a lot guys.
Fantastic espisode, explained in easy to understand ways. I'd love to see an episode with different astrologers discussing and comparing chart interpretations from different house methods using the same time of birth.
Vedic Astrology podcasts Fiona Marques is a double mathematics major and her natural wonder and ability to think and communicate the language of Vedic Astrology, through her lens, is fascinating and i feel a great contribution to this field ! She is also in Portugal.
Interesting point you made about learning how to cast a chart by hand...I am in the Level-1 Course for certification with the NCGR and the one thing that I am most excited to learn is how to calculate a chart by hand. Doing things by hand or writing really impacts my ability to full comprehend what I'm doing and in turn with add more depth and meaning in reading these charts. This video is A-1. I am leaning in on the whole house division because I love going back as far as possible in time but for the sake of my certification and for keeping in modern times, I will study both Placidus and Whole House. Bless you and your work and all of those you collaborate with to so generously give these lectures.
Simply terrific.
I love reliable content such as this from you guys as from Vic diCara.
Thank you for you work. I support quality. The work you guys are doing
it is simply Astonishing. Grats
Regards
Yes! I have forgotten how to calculate charts and personally understand more when having to go through the steps manually.
I would love a podcast on calculating charts !! Thanks for all the highly informative videos , very much appreciated 🙏❣
Priceless! Personally the best episode ver! Excellent explain! 👌💛
For me this was a very informative episode by setting the houses in their mathematical and historic settings as different attempts to give structural meaning to our view of the heavens. Maybe now we can take the next step of giving each of them their distinctive interpretative value so maybe we can move between them for different consults. For the first 40 ears i just differred to Koch without much real enthusiasm now I enjoy the simple solidity and elegance of whole sign houses but now feel open to the possible nuances of each system
This is a video all astrologers need to watch before choosing ones preferred house division. Great stuff! 🤓👍
I would love an episode on calculating charts by hand! I love this channel so much. Thank you, Chris.
Thank you for the simple explanation of primary and second motion!
Hey Chris, bit off topic, but have you ever considered doing an episode on out of bounds planets? There's not a lot of info on those out there so I feel a lot of people could benefit from an ep like that.
I have not, because it isn't something I use a lot myself, but I will see what I can do about covering that at some point
@@TheAstrologyPodcast I feel like it's generally not used as much as perhaps it should, which is pretty apt, since those planets are "out of (King's) sight". Out of sight and easy to get overlooked, but in my experience they do influence stuff both in natal and in transit. Anyway, please do consider it and thank you for replying. :)
I recently started paying attention to out of bounds planets and I find it to be very telling .. another wow element that makes sense over and over again
You have sent me down a very interesting rabbit hole! Never heard of this before, thank you
as someone with an out of bounds mercury, i would love this! i wish there was there more information on it
So hard to find this type of conversation. Thank you so much. I work with psychological astrology and use placidus, this was just fascinating to hear.
Yes!! I have always wanted to learn to calculate a chart by hand. Do it!!
Thank you for sharing. This is so helpful. I have wanted to learn the hand calculation method.Namaste
YES! I would love to learn how to calculate by hand. Had it in mind for some time 👀✨
Last July I was pulling my hair out trying to figure this out on my own with little resources. I'm glad I found this episode!
Yes, would LOVE an episode on how to calculate charts by hand!
The impact of the sun light is decisive ! I loved to know about Placidus!
Yes please do a an episode on how to calculate a chart, it’s important Chris. Thanks
Yes, please do a podcast in the future about calculating house divisions. It’s like trying to do math word problems without knowing any very basic arithmetic. I believe it would reinforce a basic foundation for astrology.
Thank so much for the episode !
I am so interested in chart calculations and I think you would be the perfect teacher to bring that forward on this platform! With all my gratitude for all you already share. Thank you!!!
This should go in the “Greatest Hits” of the podcast. This topic is never covered with the necessary technical attention it requires. That’s understandable to a degree considering all that is involved. Nevertheless, it’s really fantastic that you _did_ take the time required to give this the attention it deserves.
Providing the world does not blow up, your book on Hellenistic Astrology, I am sure, will be read centuries from now! :) Fantastic episode with Luis Ribeiro!
3:38:00 This is a wonderful point you make, Chris, regarding modern astrologers basing the application of different house systems upon the sources of those systems in practice. The example you give is that some modern astrologers claim Whole Sign is more applicable for prediction and Placidus more applicable for psychological investigation, which might be based, not upon what those house systems do, but rather upon astrologers who use them. Modern astrologers see many modern psychologically-inclined astrologers using Placidus and learn about the use of Whole Sign houses in the Hellenistic period when astrologers were more predictive. I use several house systems, but source their applications astronomically (or rather upon my own projections of what their astronomical basis might suggest). In that approach, I suggest quadrant house systems are actually more Earthly than other systems since they are entirely dependent upon a very specific Earthly experience of the Heavens. Of course, Whole Sign house are based upon an Earthly experience of the astronomy as well since the first sign is determined by the Ascendant, but in any given movement of time, that rising sign is rising for about one twelfth of the Earth. We need both AS and MC degrees to determine a unique location for any moment of time.
Brilliant lesson, thank you both ao much. It will take me a few repeat watches to really appreciate the second half.
I was very sad to hear about the passing of Luis partner towards the end of the video and will watch the follow up session to find out more about her and her work. Blessed be.
I tend towards whole and Koch house systems and would love to see you do a series on hand calculation.
You guys are amazing!!! But yes, a video about calculating a chart by hand would be great. I need to learn this in order to pass my exam and the teacher in the school was awful in explaining it...
It's more than arithmetic. Mathematics has a process. It's useful for everything.
Thanks. Great programming.
Chris I think learning the chart by hand would be very useful, it is very important to know the details of the discipline you are working on. Thank you for thinking of it.
Hi Chris! Even a short vid on the basics of calculating Charts by hand would be appreciated!! Thank you for all you do!!
Chris, I remember when you had Benjamin Dykes on the show to talk about his latest translation interpretation work on Abu Mash'ar solar revolutions and time lord techniques. The two of you discussed the issues that Abu Mash'ar was experiencing with whole signs and divisions deciding which system worked the best when a problem arose regarding a specific technique. Benjamin dykes teased at a possible solution for said issue regarding house systems and the potential for a new approach to apply a hybrid system or a combination of both at different times. Whether it would be ethical or even work, or even if we should be, it would be a great discussion with many tangents.
Another amazing episode! Everything was explained so well and of course I want that fancy gold and precious stone astrolabe. Whoever was consulting with clients using this baby was definitely a Taurus sun like me 🤩.
Yes please do it, would be very interesting to learn
Very nice explanation !
Fascinating. Thanks!
Thanks for this! Wonderful work to explain this all in such a graphic and real time way! After all this i think I'll go back to Placidus! Chart drawing is essential, and one learns a lot, but now we have this! add ing learning the use of the astrolabe would also fair well to be added. Have always wanted to animate an ASTROLABE type chart - like in the Scheme of Heaven by Alexander Boxer.- he mentions in this book Valens using an astrolabe device.
Thanks for a thorough and enlightening discussion.
For the longest time I avoided looking into the origins of different House systems because they all seemd so complex and overwhelming. My current preference is for time-based systems - given that the Houses are based on Earth's 24-hour rotation.
I still prefer Placidus for natal chart readings because it appears to be more accurate in interpretations, as well as Topocentric for transits. But I'm somewhat intrigued by the simplicity of Whole Sign and Equal House systems, even though I find them less accurate when interpreting charts.
Thank-you for this.
It is valuable information.
I use Placidus by default, via Astrodienst.
However I am fascinated by the different House systems as they were explained by the late Howard Sasportas in his book on the Houses.
My first class many, many years ago was to calculate the chart by hand.
For convenience sake I appreciate the computer service saving. me the time.
However, becoming involved in hand calculation deepens connection to the meaning and feeling of the astrology.
1:04:40 Love it. Niiiice. Thank you Luis
the best 5 minutes explanation!
Really interesting topic to calculate the chart by hand . Thank you for asking
Gracias
I feel that the Calculation of a chart by hand is one of the most crucial parts in learning astrology. For it will make very understandable why a chart looks like that at any given time. Please do such a podcast as it will benefit the whole astrological Mind Group...
2:10:15 I like "angle of Earth" for the I.C. as well. First time I've heard that. I call the IC "the Root". The four Rs describe the astronomical happenings at the pivots (the angles)... The Rise (AS), the Reach (MC), the Rest (DS), the Root (IC)
I have to say that the placidus, which is considered "standard", at least now, after this lesson seems like the most far fetched and unusual and impractical and unintuitive system to use.
Would this guest do a foresacat episode and more episodes? He's amazing and together with Chris we are so lucky to have this
I am a new student of the course on chart rectification and I'm going through the basics here before I proceed to part 3, and YES, I'd love a video on how to calculate the chart by hand, if you haven't done it yet.
Please do a padcast on how to to it by hand! It will help us all and yourself. Thanks for your good work!
I would love for you to do that Podcast of calculating a birth chart by hand! That will be priceless 👌
You both are so genius 👍
This math teacher for 16 years/new astrology student would LOVE an episode on chart calculations!!!!
I’m an hour and a half in and the visuals are so amazing in this video. So clear.
I would love a podcast on calculating charts. There’s no telling how the world might shake out and I think it is important for us not to let this valuable craft vanish into the abyss of forgotten wisdom, especially since so many good souls have worked so hard to restore ancient techniques and history. Luis is awesome and I love his devotion. Thank you for the interview. I will definitely follow his work!
I haven't finished the podcast yet but please do a podcast on how to make a birth chart manually sir Chris.
I'm your fan from Philippines ✨
Great listen xx.
Yes! I want to learn to calculate a chart by hand!
I kinda use my own house system which is the ‘midnight to midnight’ system. To describe the system I use the lowest point of the sun in the sky to calculate the ascendant, I’d use an app called night sky to calculate it and then use that point to calculate the dominant sign and the karmic sign which are east and west respectively, before using the descending sign which is the highest point the sun is in the sky. Then I use the equal house system atop of it but I make it clockwise to follow the suns path rather than the anti-clockwise house system.
please do an episode about calculating charts by hand!!
Just as I was working through Hellenistic Whole Sign House vs. Placidus vs. Regiomontanus (esp for Horary) the consideration of all, how it differs based on purpose etc.
I think that they are essentially all different perceptions of a whole.
The circle of 360 degrees as a cyclical union with no beginning nor end, it is us who coexist as part of the universal map, both part of the circle and cycles, while also the circle as a a line, and path that we walk on.
Time versus eternity, the physical hand in hand with the non-physical, all these systems have their place and purpose.
Such vital information you two are passing on to curious souls, thank you for your contributions to the teachings of astrology. Is this considered beginner, or intermediate?
I´m intrested in hearing a podcast episiode on how to calculate a chart by hand!!!
Awsome, as always. I use placidus, but I just got into tradicional astrology, so maybe I'm going to use whole signs... But I'm pretty confused since I'm new astrologer...
Chris please do that podcast if you haven't already!
I am translating celestial mechanics into quantum mechanics where by I have conjectured all human interactions as particle-particle electromagnetic wave interactions...henceforth your series of podcast on mathematics of various house system would help to verify what I have already translated.
Please could you do an episode on the math? May I suggest to keep it watchable, short and to the point with visuals. I’ve been studying this right now and I am desperate to watch a good visually engaging way to learn this. It doesn’t seem like it should be hard at all but for me, keeping my attention on it is so hard. I open my Math of Astrology by Murphy and Rosato and then I get interested in another aspect of astrology and I’m down the rabbit hole! I have not had an actual lecture on the subject and it would really be great!