I love the goodness of Superman. He's an alien who loves and cares about humanity. Virtue, mercy, kindness, generosity are never weak. Being bad or corrupt is easy, it's the easy road. Follow your passions and desires... easy. Discipline your inclinations, never surrender to baser instincts, try to be helpful when someone needs help are darn hard and has always been hard. As far as Superman being boring ... you better hope if there was ever an alien who could do what he could do is very, very boring, because the other kind of alien would be a disaster for mankind. Here's hoping that the first aliens we meet are like Kal-El.
I love Superman for the same reason I love Star Trek TNG. Both give hope for a better tomorrow, and there is nothing boring about that. It's a nice diversion from the real world.
I love the first Star Trek more, but that may be a generational thing. We really needed Star Trek in the 1960s. It was a challenging time to a human being, especially, a young one. I entirely agree. There needs to be hopefulness and positivity in our mythic imaginations. I suspect that the Babylon 5 universe is more realistic concerning our future, but it is a a darker more horrible place to live, also. They keep trying to add the modern love of dystopia, melodrama and violence to the modern spinoffs of Star Trek, but thank God, those shows keep failing.
Thanks for addressing this topic, guys! A guy once said to me, he doesn’t like Superman because, “you can’t kill him.” My thoughts were… ‘WTH??! Why do you want to kill Superman?!’ 😳 Ultimately, like Christopher stated in the video… beliefs like that guy’s says MORE about them! Especially, since Superman’s FIRST instinct is to perform acts of kindness. Let’s face it… there’s been an attack on decency for a VERY long time!! And, we’re currently living in an era where it’s no longer a “threat” but, has actually succeeded in many ways. 😢
Superman is Not boring! Pre-John Byrne, Superman stories were weird and corny. During & Post-John Byrne, Superman stories were F*ckin Awesome! Why Donner's Superman is the quintessential Superman & Superhero movie? Because Donner understood the character and respected the source material. Every Director & writer since, wants to make Superman darker and edgier. That's Not who Superman is. Batman is dark and edgy with the cool car and gadgets. Superman is the light with great powers and even greater responsibility.
I think the problem comes about when people try to overthink what makes Superman work. Reading some of the comments I see the word "Hope" used a lot. As a kid of the 70s who was reading the Bronze Age comics while enjoying George Reeves reruns after school, we never thought of Superman as being about "hope." We thought of him as a guy who was on our side, and if you messed with him, you got your comeuppance. You don't tug on Superman's cape. But above everything else, he was fun.
Superman has to be a boy scout. You can't have a God making judgement calls on how he chooses to deal with people or situations. He has to have a stong moral compass. It's also a good plot device like when he conned Luthor into betraying him with Zod about the red sun chamber. That's clever writing - and that's what's needed with Superman. It needs to be written better than just relying on his strength to fix the issues.
The thing that makes Superman interesting for me are two paradoxes (that feed into each other). The first is that, despite being an alien, he represents the best of humanity with his drive to do the right thing and his genuine love and care for the human race. The second is the cruel reality that this despite his power, there is only one of him. For every person he saves, another dies. He can't be everywhere. And this is a heavy burden given his empathetic nature. The most poignant Superman moments, both in comics and on screen, are those that play into these ideas.
The people who say Superman is boring because he's too powerful are the same people who have to make each comic character more and more powerful. Look at characters these days versus twenty, thirty years ago. They're BIGGER and more powerful. Look at how big the Hulk is now. He used to be seven feet tall, and now he's like TEN. It's not just comics, it's in the movies. Look at how powerful Palpatine was in the last Star Wars movie. It's ridiculous! People say he's hard to write for because they lack imagination.
I personally also get annoyed by the "he's too strong" complaints as well. It basically doesn't mean anything. Yeah, Superman is very powerful, he also has adversaries who are more than a match for him. This issue only seems to come up for Superman, as if there aren't other heroes with godlike powers, such as Thor, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Hulk, etc. All of those characters have insane powers and have performed immense feats of strength and ability, yet they don't suffer the same level of scrutiny as Superman for being "too strong". Love the Cyclops appreciation. My #1 Marvel comics hero for over 30 years. You pretty much nailed why he's awesome. Charles' best and brightest, who believes in the dream even stronger than his mentor.
@@azuresaiyan9005 Literally this, people act like Superman doesn’t have a rogues gallery that consistently gives him a hard time physically like Darkseid or Brainiac and even has antagonists that are flat out more powerful than him like Mr. Mxyzptlk. So saying it’s hard to come up with physical challenges for Superman is just flat out wrong The Green Lantern franchise has a gigantic cast of cosmic level characters but still has many compelling stories, but apparently it’s hard to challenge Superman the same way? XD
Even the ones who aren't a physical match for him at least provide some sort of interesting contrast or can endanger the people around him. One of my favorite Superman villains is the Prankster, who's not a physical match but gets to have the advantage of unpredictability (also, he's just fun). One thing I love about Superman's Rogues Gallery is that he's got every kind of villain. Superman is the ultimate superhero generalist.
@@starbrandfan2541 Am I the only one who absolutely LOVES Mr. Mxyzptlk? There is the version in the Animated series, which is very close to the one I remember from my comic book reading days. - and the one in "Lois and Clark" ... another great version of the imp from the 5th dimension.
@ Mxy is one of my favorite characters in all of DC, he’s so fun He’s unique among Superman’s rogues gallery in the sense that he isn’t really a villain, he’s more of a frenemy who isn’t interested in cosmic domination and uses his godlike powers to just prank and troll people, Superman in particular. That’s one of the reason I love the Great Gazoo trope/archetype as a whole Besides the animated series, I also enjoyed him in Justice League Action, the Superman Returns video game, and the more recent game, Justice League: Cosmic Chaos Batman’s personal 5th Dimensional annoyance, Bat-Mite, is a character I like as well. He and Mxy play off each other really well when they interact
Superman has tons of character, but most films (which aren’t a lot) always place him in a powerhouse position. There’s a quote from DC’ Showcase “Return of Black Adam” where Superman tells Billy that bad is always easy, being good is hard. It takes strength to be good.
I keep coming back to Action Comics #775, which illustrated why Superman is a very moral person. This story encapsulates why the character is capable of restraining himself so that he doesn't act like Homelander. Clark does the right thing and he shows why being petty and amoral is wrong. Grant Morrison explained what makes him work and it gets to the heart of the character. They get it because Morrison looks at the big picture and tells us what should be blatantly obvious. For all of his power, Superman is vulnerable to his humanity. To his sense of empathy. This is why people have trouble relating because they either lack empathy or have limited empathy.
Superman is unapologetically "woke" by today's standards. But that's ALWAYS what's made him interesting. Imagine how hard it is to be that guy today. More moral fibre than a priest and fireman combined lol
I'm completely with you guys on Supes, from on grognard to another. While I loved both Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen, I wasn't a fan of where comics went following them. It was sad and frustrating to see DC try to turn Superman and Batman into people they weren't for marketing reasons. Or replace them with "better" versions. With notable exceptions comics have just gone further out away from me. I would never occur to me to buy any comic book these days. What are the chances I'll get to the end and think the money and time spent buying and reading it was well-spent?
I personally thought MOS was incredible, I was born in the early 80s, I was raised on Reeves and Keaton but superman never felt real just a comic book on screen, MOS grounded the character and made him feel real it was an amazing movie. WB then refused to allow MOS2 to be made as they wanted Batman included as soon as possible. BVS Ultimate Edition was also a really good movie, and then with WW and Zack Synder Justice League we could of had something very very special but for some reason the studio decided to get involved and destroy what we could of had. I personally won’t give Gunn a penny as his comments on kids turned me off him for life, but I hope others enjoy his vision and the DCU to come. 👍David will no doubt crush it as Superman best of luck to him. Really hope people enjoy it 👍 But I really love MOS that grounded realistic Superman was just amazing.
I had a question in my mind recently about, was that trucker guy in the diner the only human to make Superman bleed? I know in other movies, humans such as Batman, with weaponry made Superman bleed, as well as probably Lex Luthor with his weaponry. I get it that Superman didn't have his powers when he was hit and that at the end of the movie he had his powers back and taught that trucker guy a lesson. I was just curious though.
For this version of Superman, yeah definitely. Not only the first human but the first anybody, because in the scene you mention it seems pretty clear that he’d never seen his own blood before. Beyond the Christopher Reeve version of Supes, I don’t know but I’m sure there must be plenty of other incidents throughout the decades.
I would love to if I could afford a copy of it! That ain't in the cards at the moment, unfortunately. Hopefully next year at some point. Thanks, though, that's a good call.
When it comes down to it, TV and movies have done him dirty over the years. Reusing Lex basically exclusively is what's gotten boring. And Supes is at his best when he's inspiring others to do better. So the endless solo movies have failed to show his real strengths.
I in a way disagree with the luthor statement because we haven’t gotten the full range of luthor as a character in live action all we get is the he redesign of luthor that dc did in the late 70’s or 80’s based on trump Snyder tried to give us the mad scientist version of luthor and most people didn’t get it
@kevin10001 I don't know, IMO the only problem with Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was Jesse Eisenberg. Mad scientist, fine. And a fine actor. But horrible casting choice.
@@kevin10001 I mean, that's my point. I've read Superman comics from 4 decades and he's never been that campy. Yes, Lex should always be a thorn in Superman's side, regardless of the main villain, but there's a point when he knows he needs to help, not hinder. There's a reason his kryptonite suit is so iconic. Regardless of what Lex is doing, I need to believe he can hit that point and join Superman. Lex doesn't want to see the world burn, he wants to control it. Michael Rosenbaum is the only Lex that has ever made me believe that.
I just think they need to stay away from Lex leave him as a final villain use metallo braniac build a climax to Lex or zod rather than just go big or go home..
I'd like just one movie with his chief villain being Brainiac - not only brawn but brains. We know more about how computers really work, now and we have more established vocabulary about their functions.
My critique of superman? He’s just a guy trying to do the right thing. Sometimes that means making tough decisions as a necessity, for the greater good of mankind. Superman is the encapsulation of uncle Ben’s paraphrase. “With great power comes great responsibility.” I prefer my superman to be dark tragic and serious. I don’t like the conventional - “truth justice American way” version which is too patriotic and too soppy. Superman is known for his compassionate, emphatic and virtuous nature but in the earlier comics (action 1) he was more intimidating, assertive and pugnacious. This version along with man of steel are my preferences in terms of how I view the character. A good superman story is one with consequences, tragedy, a sense of dread or uncertainty. Anything lighthearted, camp or sentimental is so unappealing and boring. There always has to be a dramatic aspect to Superman otherwise it defeats the purpose of his character.
I love the goodness of Superman. He's an alien who loves and cares about humanity. Virtue, mercy, kindness, generosity are never weak. Being bad or corrupt is easy, it's the easy road. Follow your passions and desires... easy. Discipline your inclinations, never surrender to baser instincts, try to be helpful when someone needs help are darn hard and has always been hard. As far as Superman being boring ... you better hope if there was ever an alien who could do what he could do is very, very boring, because the other kind of alien would be a disaster for mankind. Here's hoping that the first aliens we meet are like Kal-El.
Superman is the quintessential superhero.
And Clark Kent is the quintessential hero.
I love Superman for the same reason I love Star Trek TNG. Both give hope for a better tomorrow, and there is nothing boring about that. It's a nice diversion from the real world.
I love the first Star Trek more, but that may be a generational thing. We really needed Star Trek in the 1960s. It was a challenging time to a human being, especially, a young one. I entirely agree. There needs to be hopefulness and positivity in our mythic imaginations. I suspect that the Babylon 5 universe is more realistic concerning our future, but it is a a darker more horrible place to live, also. They keep trying to add the modern love of dystopia, melodrama and violence to the modern spinoffs of Star Trek, but thank God, those shows keep failing.
Thanks for addressing this topic, guys! A guy once said to me, he doesn’t like Superman because, “you can’t kill him.” My thoughts were… ‘WTH??! Why do you want to kill Superman?!’ 😳
Ultimately, like Christopher stated in the video… beliefs like that guy’s says MORE about them! Especially, since Superman’s FIRST instinct is to perform acts of kindness.
Let’s face it… there’s been an attack on decency for a VERY long time!! And, we’re currently living in an era where it’s no longer a “threat” but, has actually succeeded in many ways. 😢
"He's a big blue boy scout"
It's a feature not a bug.
Superman is Not boring! Pre-John Byrne, Superman stories were weird and corny. During & Post-John Byrne, Superman stories were F*ckin Awesome! Why Donner's Superman is the quintessential Superman & Superhero movie? Because Donner understood the character and respected the source material. Every Director & writer since, wants to make Superman darker and edgier. That's Not who Superman is. Batman is dark and edgy with the cool car and gadgets. Superman is the light with great powers and even greater responsibility.
I think the problem comes about when people try to overthink what makes Superman work. Reading some of the comments I see the word "Hope" used a lot. As a kid of the 70s who was reading the Bronze Age comics while enjoying George Reeves reruns after school, we never thought of Superman as being about "hope." We thought of him as a guy who was on our side, and if you messed with him, you got your comeuppance. You don't tug on Superman's cape. But above everything else, he was fun.
Damn. I love this channel.
Superman has to be a boy scout. You can't have a God making judgement calls on how he chooses to deal with people or situations. He has to have a stong moral compass. It's also a good plot device like when he conned Luthor into betraying him with Zod about the red sun chamber. That's clever writing - and that's what's needed with Superman. It needs to be written better than just relying on his strength to fix the issues.
No superman is not boring at all
The thing that makes Superman interesting for me are two paradoxes (that feed into each other). The first is that, despite being an alien, he represents the best of humanity with his drive to do the right thing and his genuine love and care for the human race.
The second is the cruel reality that this despite his power, there is only one of him. For every person he saves, another dies. He can't be everywhere. And this is a heavy burden given his empathetic nature.
The most poignant Superman moments, both in comics and on screen, are those that play into these ideas.
This is where man of steel comes in.
The people who say Superman is boring because he's too powerful are the same people who have to make each comic character more and more powerful. Look at characters these days versus twenty, thirty years ago. They're BIGGER and more powerful. Look at how big the Hulk is now. He used to be seven feet tall, and now he's like TEN. It's not just comics, it's in the movies. Look at how powerful Palpatine was in the last Star Wars movie. It's ridiculous!
People say he's hard to write for because they lack imagination.
I prefer heroes who actually act like heroes.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
I personally also get annoyed by the "he's too strong" complaints as well. It basically doesn't mean anything. Yeah, Superman is very powerful, he also has adversaries who are more than a match for him.
This issue only seems to come up for Superman, as if there aren't other heroes with godlike powers, such as Thor, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Hulk, etc. All of those characters have insane powers and have performed immense feats of strength and ability, yet they don't suffer the same level of scrutiny as Superman for being "too strong".
Love the Cyclops appreciation. My #1 Marvel comics hero for over 30 years. You pretty much nailed why he's awesome. Charles' best and brightest, who believes in the dream even stronger than his mentor.
@@azuresaiyan9005
Literally this, people act like Superman doesn’t have a rogues gallery that consistently gives him a hard time physically like Darkseid or Brainiac and even has antagonists that are flat out more powerful than him like Mr. Mxyzptlk. So saying it’s hard to come up with physical challenges for Superman is just flat out wrong
The Green Lantern franchise has a gigantic cast of cosmic level characters but still has many compelling stories, but apparently it’s hard to challenge Superman the same way? XD
Even the ones who aren't a physical match for him at least provide some sort of interesting contrast or can endanger the people around him. One of my favorite Superman villains is the Prankster, who's not a physical match but gets to have the advantage of unpredictability (also, he's just fun). One thing I love about Superman's Rogues Gallery is that he's got every kind of villain. Superman is the ultimate superhero generalist.
@@starbrandfan2541 Am I the only one who absolutely LOVES Mr. Mxyzptlk? There is the version in the Animated series, which is very close to the one I remember from my comic book reading days. - and the one in "Lois and Clark" ... another great version of the imp from the 5th dimension.
@
Mxy is one of my favorite characters in all of DC, he’s so fun
He’s unique among Superman’s rogues gallery in the sense that he isn’t really a villain, he’s more of a frenemy who isn’t interested in cosmic domination and uses his godlike powers to just prank and troll people, Superman in particular. That’s one of the reason I love the Great Gazoo trope/archetype as a whole
Besides the animated series, I also enjoyed him in Justice League Action, the Superman Returns video game, and the more recent game, Justice League: Cosmic Chaos
Batman’s personal 5th Dimensional annoyance, Bat-Mite, is a character I like as well. He and Mxy play off each other really well when they interact
Boring? No. More difficult to write well? Absolutely.
Absolutely right!!!
Superman has tons of character, but most films (which aren’t a lot) always place him in a powerhouse position. There’s a quote from DC’ Showcase “Return of Black Adam” where Superman tells Billy that bad is always easy, being good is hard. It takes strength to be good.
I keep coming back to Action Comics #775, which illustrated why Superman is a very moral person. This story encapsulates why the character is capable of restraining himself so that he doesn't act like Homelander. Clark does the right thing and he shows why being petty and amoral is wrong.
Grant Morrison explained what makes him work and it gets to the heart of the character. They get it because Morrison looks at the big picture and tells us what should be blatantly obvious. For all of his power, Superman is vulnerable to his humanity. To his sense of empathy. This is why people have trouble relating because they either lack empathy or have limited empathy.
Superman is unapologetically "woke" by today's standards. But that's ALWAYS what's made him interesting. Imagine how hard it is to be that guy today. More moral fibre than a priest and fireman combined lol
I'm completely with you guys on Supes, from on grognard to another. While I loved both Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen, I wasn't a fan of where comics went following them. It was sad and frustrating to see DC try to turn Superman and Batman into people they weren't for marketing reasons. Or replace them with "better" versions. With notable exceptions comics have just gone further out away from me. I would never occur to me to buy any comic book these days. What are the chances I'll get to the end and think the money and time spent buying and reading it was well-spent?
I personally thought MOS was incredible, I was born in the early 80s, I was raised on Reeves and Keaton but superman never felt real just a comic book on screen, MOS grounded the character and made him feel real it was an amazing movie.
WB then refused to allow MOS2 to be made as they wanted Batman included as soon as possible.
BVS Ultimate Edition was also a really good movie, and then with WW and Zack Synder Justice League we could of had something very very special but for some reason the studio decided to get involved and destroy what we could of had. I personally won’t give Gunn a penny as his comments on kids turned me off him for life, but I hope others enjoy his vision and the DCU to come. 👍David will no doubt crush it as Superman best of luck to him.
Really hope people enjoy it 👍
But I really love MOS that grounded realistic Superman was just amazing.
I had a question in my mind recently about, was that trucker guy in the diner the only human to make Superman bleed? I know in other movies, humans such as Batman, with weaponry made Superman bleed, as well as probably Lex Luthor with his weaponry. I get it that Superman didn't have his powers when he was hit and that at the end of the movie he had his powers back and taught that trucker guy a lesson. I was just curious though.
For this version of Superman, yeah definitely. Not only the first human but the first anybody, because in the scene you mention it seems pretty clear that he’d never seen his own blood before. Beyond the Christopher Reeve version of Supes, I don’t know but I’m sure there must be plenty of other incidents throughout the decades.
@prodigioussaps Have you thought about reviewing Superman: The Definitive History? I'd be interested in your opinions of the book.
I would love to if I could afford a copy of it! That ain't in the cards at the moment, unfortunately. Hopefully next year at some point. Thanks, though, that's a good call.
When it comes down to it, TV and movies have done him dirty over the years. Reusing Lex basically exclusively is what's gotten boring. And Supes is at his best when he's inspiring others to do better. So the endless solo movies have failed to show his real strengths.
I in a way disagree with the luthor statement because we haven’t gotten the full range of luthor as a character in live action all we get is the he redesign of luthor that dc did in the late 70’s or 80’s based on trump Snyder tried to give us the mad scientist version of luthor and most people didn’t get it
@kevin10001 I don't know, IMO the only problem with Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was Jesse Eisenberg. Mad scientist, fine. And a fine actor. But horrible casting choice.
@@kevin10001 I mean, that's my point. I've read Superman comics from 4 decades and he's never been that campy. Yes, Lex should always be a thorn in Superman's side, regardless of the main villain, but there's a point when he knows he needs to help, not hinder. There's a reason his kryptonite suit is so iconic. Regardless of what Lex is doing, I need to believe he can hit that point and join Superman. Lex doesn't want to see the world burn, he wants to control it. Michael Rosenbaum is the only Lex that has ever made me believe that.
"No".
This is all the necessary response to such a shallow and cliched question.
I just think they need to stay away from Lex leave him as a final villain use metallo braniac build a climax to Lex or zod rather than just go big or go home..
I'd like just one movie with his chief villain being Brainiac - not only brawn but brains. We know more about how computers really work, now and we have more established vocabulary about their functions.
In a word 'Yes'.
More than you think
My critique of superman? He’s just a guy trying to do the right thing. Sometimes that means making tough decisions as a necessity, for the greater good of mankind. Superman is the encapsulation of uncle Ben’s paraphrase. “With great power comes great responsibility.”
I prefer my superman to be dark tragic and serious. I don’t like the conventional - “truth justice American way” version which is too patriotic and too soppy. Superman is known for his compassionate, emphatic and virtuous nature but in the earlier comics (action 1) he was more intimidating, assertive and pugnacious. This version along with man of steel are my preferences in terms of how I view the character.
A good superman story is one with consequences, tragedy, a sense of dread or uncertainty. Anything lighthearted, camp or sentimental is so unappealing and boring. There always has to be a dramatic aspect to Superman otherwise it defeats the purpose of his character.
Boy Scout version is more boring than you know.
Why?