@@heartlesshealeroh that explains a lot I’ve heard almost nothing but bad things about Unreal 5. Especially baffling since the one perk of U5 is supposed to be the visuals but Multiversus isn’t exactly pushing it’s graphics so it’s just..? Like what’s the point even
@@solomon9655 I don't know too much about the engine itself, but I do know that nothing in the beta was built on it, so they had to recreate all of the 'meat' of the game from scratch. If Unreal 5's big claim is to visuals, then yeah there was no need to switch outside of an executive telling them to work on the new thing. It was just unnecessary work to dump on the developers after the way players had responded to the beta.
The state of WB legitimately depresses me. Edit: Just gonna say that I know all corporations are evil and always screwing stuff over. I just mean with WB they are going the extra mile of just destroying their animations and writing media off for taxes before they even get a chance to come out. The last 2 years specifically just seem like they are dismantling the company just to sell it off to another one. Just seeing people who I've followed for years get their art thrown in the trash for no reason just annoys me more than most companies right now. But yes, I know everything is shit.
I mean they’ve been pulling this shit for decades, it’s just never been this awful before. Not saying Disney is better either, WB is just more pathetic. They’re the western equivalent to Konami alongside EA.
@@li-limandragon9287 No, Disney is much better currently. Disney didn't cancel a ton of movies and shows as a tax write off and put hundreds of employees suddenly out of work, nor have they threatened to delist an entire publishers game catalog (though they've dialed this plan back) WB is on straight up demon timing
You'll be happier once you accept that a lot of the movies and shows and franchises you used to like are over now. It's exciting to try out new stuff, as it turns out. It won't be as bad as it feels right now.
@@pandagamer-hg5beI watched Max play for 10 minutes and legitimately thought it was running at half-speed, its jarring how slow and plodding it looks Edit: I wrote this before I heard Pat say pretty much exactly the same thing
The devs mentioned that they had to switch engines during development, and a lot of features from the beta that are sole missing now are going to be reimplimented, but what it tells me is that they were forced out the gate before they were ready to fix everything, another genius WB move.
I'm sure they had to switch but I call bull on this as a good excuse since the beta was lasting for 6+ months, was selling dlc and also had unlockable characters on a weekly rotation! So I don't buy that as a proper excuse plus the game looks like it plays awfully and just looks bad all around.
Sounds like they pushed it out the door when plenty of work still needed to be done. You don't get to throw up your hands after an engine switch and leave everything else to later It also doesn't explain the massively predatory monetization.
@MrJans3n if it's in the beginning phase of development than possibly, but if you're halfway in or more, absolutely not. No rational dev team would want to do that. It's almost always because of a catastrophic project restart, file loss, corporate mandate/publisher idea, or some combination.
They needed more ways of getting revenue and they think this greedy "over-monetize game and deliver a worse experience"stuff is going to work. It is not.
My favorite change to Multiverses is how the zoomed in camera forgets about Jerry when I'm playing Tom & Jerry. I guess he's somewhere on the map? Also it hides the cool-down timers. Sick.
yesterday they announced they were vaulting iron giant until they fix those infinites, which sucks for the people who either grinded for days just to unlock him or buckeld down and paid $9.99 to unlock him fast
Also sucks for Flashfreeez, the guy who was competing in an online multiversus tournament with Iron Giant when WB pulled the character out of the game *in the middle of the set*. Dude took a round with Iron Giant then went back to character select and the character was *gone*.
6:20 Heroes of the Storm with "Heroes 2.0" where they did a bunch of hero reworks, currency rework, and added loot boxes. The game had a small base but stable and steady growth. They had exposure on ESPN and collegiate teams. But they wanted loot boxes! So theu added a ton of emotes, effects, sprays. They went all in on overwatch heroes then cut the team in half It was heartbreaking to see a game that had a blast playing beong fumbled so hard and effectively leading to it's slow death
Ultimately it's a fault of WB. They have stated that the re-launch was rushed and were told to push it out before it was ready. Alot of aspects that are missing from the beta are strictly not there because alot of the game had to be remade from scratch for the sake of the new engine and new netcode. So half of the game is just flat out rushed. . . and the other half was WB saying "make the game more grindy" presumably for monetization purposes.
The bad thing about Nick All Star Brawl 2 is that it didn't completely carry over the first game's roster. That doomed it. They added Raphael and Donatello but took Leonardo, Michelangelo, and Shredder out, and there's weird roster decisions like that over the entire game
While I understand why people don't like the idea of roster cuts, they're 100% necessary for fighting game sequels. As woolie and pat said here in the video, fighting game characters take a lot of time, energy and money to create, even if they already existed in a previous game. You can't just copy+paste the fighter whole cloth from one game to another, every single one of them has to be re-made from scratch.
A lot of those returning characters had complete moveset revamps so keeping all of the old cast would have basically meant having no new characters at all or very few.
@@kevingriffith6011 Oh definitely, its just that when you're trying to be in the same space as Smash roster cuts are a really hard thing to stomach, because your competition didn't make those compromises at all. It just makes both games feel like incomplete packages when 2 should feel like an expansion on something complete
@@shiningknight23 Smash is a *really* unfair comparison, though. It required not only the massive development time required to make all those characters, but also Sakurai's clout and ability to wrangle the rights holders for every single IP present in Smash. Not even Nintendo will be able to match Smash Ultimate with its launch roster. It was a once-in-a-lifetime moment in platform fighters. I really don't want to be one of those people who says gamers are spoiled, because god knows the games industry has been intentionally sabotaging their products for the sake of squeezing an extra dime out of their players, but I do think it's valid when it comes down to fighting game rosters. I can appreciate a budokai-style 100+ fighters reskinned from like 6 movesets, but that's not what I want in a competitive PvP fighting game, you know? I want the most unique, highest possible quality fighting game characters these developers can deliver on, not a fistful of rushed out, unbalanced, uninspired rehashes of old ideas.
I can't tell if it is actually insanely hard to develop a platform fighter, if every developer who takes a stab at a smash clone is uniquesly bad at it, or both. Like people REALLY like seeing their action figures smash against each other if you are getting major vacklash you have fucked up
Part of the problem is that these exec want to much control on which action figures they want us to use and in what way. Not to mention the, relatively, low budgets.
I honestly think the only reason Playstation All-Stars failed is because the developers and publishers were thinking "We HAVE to be different from Smash Bros" which led to only Supers being able to kill the opponent. It didn't help either that people had a mindset of "how dare you copy this popular thing" with attempts like these. The good old "Doom-clone" debate. It also leaned a bit too much into basing its roster on the new thing. So you got DmC Donte and MGR Raiden (who's beloved now but was controversial a decade ago) instead of classic Dante and Solid Snake. Also Big Daddy from Bioshock of all things, who had no affiliation with Sony. Putting that aside, the game had some cool ideas still, such as the merging of stages from different properties. Like Ratchet's stage being consumed by the Hydras from God of War.
@@leithaziz2716 Pkayststion all stars for all its fuslts also had really tight gameplay too. Dante felt fucking great in that game, since he would gun cancel combos into angel/demon weapons, launchers, and kill combos.
how do you manage to make a decent game, take it away for like two years, and literally make it worse in pretty much every way like did someone sabotage the game on purpose
They moved from Ue4 to UE5 during their downtime, which causes a lot of issues. I bet they were forced out before they were finished polishing everything nd are trying to restore old features ASAP.
Played Multiversus for a bit with my friend, game bricked during local co op, I picked a balanced perk auto load out, he told me to go back and check the big perks cause they change fundamental parts of the characters kit - already I’m not a fan of that, circa MK11, but after trying to go back to the perk menu the game just stopped. No registered inputs for any of us. Had to close application and launch again. Actual game feel is moderately better than it looks but still VERY slow. Some characters are pure knowledge checks, my friend played Taz and got away with murder until about game 3 then he just stopped winning and moved onto Iron Giant. I’d charitably give the game about a years life span unless they radically shift the focus and give all characters for free and cosmetics being where you pay
This reminds of the similar thing that happened with another WB's game recently. Suicide Squad was delayed a year to "remove/alter live-service elements" and I watched streams playing it and the game was not changed at all since the reveal of it, making me question what were they doing for a whole year.
@@Americanbadashh Sure, I meant it in a way that both of those game were almost done, went back to development, came back and have not improved at all.
Echoing other comments and sentiments, this really does have the feel of the C-suite not understanding that you can't just make this a monetization scheme with a game attached. Smash Bros. was successful because it was a fun game first, but the line must go up, so execs and bean-counters think "we can just skip that part, start cutting it up to sell the parts."
I mean, just look at how much content you get for your money in a single Smash Bros. fighter pass and compare it to this pile of shit. A character, stage, music, and spirit board for only a fraction of what one Multiversus character costs.
I don't know what happened with NASB. It seems like all they did for promotion was upload character trailers to RUclips and not even push it on any social media. I entered the bracket at combo breaker thinking it would actually be fun and then a bunch of the players and TOs just shit talked the game the whole time and talked about how NASB1 was better.
It feels to me that the execs at wb didnt have any real faith in the game while it was being made and up till launch. However once it started getting talked about and played a lot, thats when their scummy meddling got in the way.
Just to clarify, the inability to play characters in training mode and local offline letting you use every character without going through the whole grind are old features that they’re going to reimplement, however from the sound of it, it will be a moment to fix it. I’m not sure how much of these issues are due to scheduling, the engine swap, or just greed, but I can imagine the development team isn’t exactly working in the best environment at the moment.
the only thing that i care about multiverse is they got Jason in which means the licences holders for Jason are up for collaborations with other IP's and projects which in turn means jason can FINALLY come to DEAD BY DAYLIGHT
It’s funny watching this and remembering Woolie and Pat pushing for fighting games to embrace the free-to-play model, even wishing Capcom had done so with Street Fighter 6.
The fact the whole idea it was "early access" was mentioned maybe once, then they proceeded to act like it was a fully released freemium product with their hands in your pocket for 6 months was always scummy, the fact it relaunched in this state with significantly less hype is poetic justice
@@mxnsab8461 Any game with a fully functional microtransaction shop doesn't get to call itself early access. Also, I've never heard of any other "early access" game that took itself back offline again, that's not how early access works. EA is supposed to involve taking feedback and updating the game until you hit 1.0 and officially "launch," not letting people play the game for half a year and then taking everything away. Shill harder.
@@TyrantWesker that is literally how open beta has worked for years. Then you haven't played a lot of f2p early access games. The length it was offline for was long sure. But it wasn't unknown this was going to happen. On top of that; games in early access/open beta have had mtx in them for over a decade (league had mtx in their open beta phase pre release) It is scummy, but not uncommon. I am also not defending multiversus. I am incredibly disappointed with the state of release and the engine change for seemingly no reason. I am asking yall to not complain about things you were told explicitly about. 30 frame buffer, bad. The changes to the camera, bad. The removal of gold and shift to four different currencies, bad and a lie (they said gold will stay and roll over). The cost of fighters and how little you earn through play, bad. The horrendous state of balance right now, bad. The Agent Smith event, bad. Like, I don't know why yall complain about something they told you was gonna happen and everyone who paid attention and competed during early access knew this was happening. We didn't know how long it was gonna be down, but we knew it was going down. But I guess I am sorry so many people never listened to Tony or PFG and I am sorry that you are so used to ea/open beta being used as a marketing tool and not for using gamers to stress test it.
On top of that, I am not shilling the game. I don't think most people should play it right now with the state it is in. Because it wasn't ready. And quite frankly, still isn't. Wanting people to not lie about something which has an incredibly long list of real complaints isn't shilling. Unless you think shilling means not correcting misinformation instead of glazing the shit out of a game.
I havent trusted any WB games since Shadow of War when they added lootboxes to a single player game. Theres no MTX anymore for it but the loot boxes are still there.
Yeah, they removed the gambling stuff thankfully, but the very grindy endgame in War is very obviously designed around it. And I don't think that ever got improved.
God, I get depressed every time I think about how great Shadow of War could've been if they didn't jam all those loot-crate mechanics into it. Even without being able to actually spend money, I'm still constantly tripping over tons of worthless gear that's barely different from each other and surrounded by orcs who might as well have been made through a random generator, just because they needed to be able to be sold through a loot box.
The first thing i noticed when i played it was the tutorial. I don't really remember how it was back in the beta but I'm pretty sure they explained everything immediately and gave you some pro tips. but now the tutorial just tell you how to push buttons and that's it. Also I had some really bad frame drops, even playing alone in the rift against finn and jake And finally, the game crashed Three time just looking at the store Fuck, man! I really really liked multiversus
Multiversus slowing down due to 'feedback' is so strange to me, because so much of what I remember hearing when it first dropped was people going 'Man, this would be more fun if it was like 15-20% faster.'
I remember people like Max saying its a bit slippery, even too fast. they probably wanted to slow it down so people could follow the action better, but maybe they overcorrected.
From what I understand, based on what some folks playing the game were saying, one major point of feedback from the beta was that players found that a lot of things were difficult to whiff punish. As in there were big moves that felt like they should be punishable on whiff that weren't. It's possible that either the devs misunderstood that complaint as "the game's too fast" or somehow thought that slowing the game down would be the best way to fix this (it wasn't obviously).
@@LotS-quagthe strange part is how during the original run they just straight up changed how hitboxes work, lots of characters had stationary pills that didn’t cover their very wide limbs, and some got their hitboxes converted from 3D to 2D. I wonder how much of it was due to the speed and how much was due to the game being made while people were playing it
The game is still really fun and the new characters feel like some of the best yet. It needs a lot of changes to stay relevant but each character is animated in a really fun way and plays different enough that it's a really good time just checking out the roster and playing with some friends at the very least
I have noticed a pattern of every time a game runs utterly like crap is because of whatever numbered unreal engine version that's out at the time is a crapfest.
The way Multiversus locks characters is very strange because they aren't skins - they're characters with unique movesets and archetypes. Why would you not make them available at all times?
It takes real effort to put your game on hold out of the beta phase to improve it, and it somehow comes out worse (I'm not talking strictly about the gameplay).
Imagine them doing that to your car, just leaving it in the shop for a week and when you get it back there's a black plume of smoke coming out of the back and it's 50%slower 😂
Why does Woolie always confuse crews with doubles? He even made the point during the 2XKO talks last week about the difference between tag games. Crews is like KoF, Doubles is like the bonkers groove in 2XKO. The Wombo Combo happened in Doubles.
It is baffling to me how Warner brothers has tried to make a live service game a thing three times in a row now, every time they have been ruthlessly mocked, and they still refuse to take the L because they insist that they can make this happen. I am like 98% convinced that this is all just a product of David Zaslav going out of his way to kill anything Warner / Discovery owns which doesn't fall on the Discovery side of the line because he's pissed that Discovery plus isn't as relavent as he thinks it should be. he refuses to let it die so he's either turning your favorite shows into tax write-offs, cancelling fully finished movies, or doing everything within his power to ruin good developers, all to keep his awful streaming service afloat.
I think forgetting about Nick All Star Battle 2 is just Pat and Woolie not being into Platform Fighters... and Smash players generally not being into any game that isn't Smash. Rivals kinda turned itself into Smash MUGEN at some point with Steam Workshop as well so it blew up in popularity but the other indie titles can't be so lucky. I don't think Fraymakers, Rushdown Revolt, or Brawlout were all that bad just to name a few but at the end of the day a platform fighter needs recognizable characters otherwise people won't obsess over it enough to make it a thing.
ive been playing the game and doing my damnedest to like it but the constant desyncs and actually removed content like the arcade mode, it makes it difficult. This game absolutely is making me want to get an Ethernet cable though more than any other online game
I'm just waiting for Rivals of Aether 2, the betas were so much fun lol. also, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the re-release trailer...it already was too slow n floaty, then they made it worse??? and they were playing it over a year and nobody said "yo hold on?"...MAD.
So I can think of two games that were MUCH better in Beta than the full release: Omega Strikers and RWBY Grim Eclipse. Omega Strikers was like a lite version of what happened to Multiversus. They slowed the game down too much and matches take too long and everyone hated it. The game was cool because the matches were short and quick. Now I get bored of it before the match is over. RWBY though...hoo boy. It's a COMPLETELY different game. In the Beta it was basically an online co-op Musou game but with a big of hidden meat on its bones. Then when they had to change the character models (because the old RWBY models were actually using stolen MMD assets without permission and yes that was in the show too) they did a "combat update" and tried to make the game more Arkham-like and it ruined everything. Enemy swarms are tiny now, bunch of moves got cut, game lost ALL of its challenge and now it's just spam counter button. It's a DRASTIC downgrade. EDIT: Oh geeze. I just looked at my Steam Library and saw another: PSO2 New Genesis. THAT...was a mistake.
I 100% get not playing nick 2 with the first game destroying everyones fairh but its a shame cuz nick 2 is a MUCH better game beyond just voices. Ludiosity made a massive upgrade to the mechanics, production and feel from nick 1. But nick 1 burned too many people and even some of the few nick 1 loyalist were upset from the roster cuts.
Lebron was a mistake Le Epic Shaggy UI Shaggy meme was a mistake Black Adam was a mistake Banana Guard was a absolute mistake Just by looking at the rooster it's clear this game was a mistake.
I really really wish more GaS bullshit that was meant to be like a hype platform advertising machine for a company's IPs was viewed like SaGa Re:Universe. It's low budget, it doesn't bring in a lot of money, but the head of the IP at Square has said he views it as just like, a fun advertisement for the series so as long as people are playing it and new people are finding the series through it, it's doing it's job, ya know? But no, the only benefit most companies see of shit like this is that it can make them money forever if they keep putting money in forever, instead of having it as the thing that's keeping fans' dedication to their IP alive, which in turn will boost sales of merch/movies/streaming shows whatever else they have to sell you. Aim to make some of the money while keeping people happy so they'll buy your other shit instead of trying to be fucking fortnite $$ and just pissing off everyone
Not to mention that the game pretty much doesnt work online if you dont have a wired connection. Its such a shame. The game had HUGE potential to be an actual real rival to Smash. But nope, they had to mess it up. This game will die soon like the rest.
The central story to Iron Giant is that of a being created for war taking back their agency to become a pacifist who deplores harm and violence. Cue nerd-focused late-stage capitalism: "HEY IRON GIANT, REMEMBER HIM? HE HAS ALL THESE SUPERS IN OUR FIGHTING GAME. HE HAS A RAY GUN"
@lbcyber I mean the game is already brain dead enough to put Bugs Bunny and other cartoon characters along Jason and Miss Arya my franchise is full of rape and murder Stark, you think Iron Giant’s themes of altruism, not violence are gonna stay intact.
I know that games take a long time to make, but I cant get over how wb saw the success of the most 5/10 game ever in Hogwarts legacy, and are still pushing all this live service bs. Like I know execs are idiots and the line must go up, but how many millions of dollars gotta be waisted before somebody gets fired. Also I would probably be excited about a playable ruby if they didn't channel their inner XBOX and just laid off the entire studio of people who made her show. Here's hoping we at least get some of the music from Casey.
My guess is that the choice to put LeBrom James in the game for the sake of shoving more Space Jam into people's faces forced WB to be even more scummy than usual in order to keep up with his royalty fees.....
As an Iron Giant main, I am pissed at WB and PFG. Like what were you doing for the year after the "beta"(revisionist history)? The game runs worse on unreal 5. Its like they dont realize that thier game is on the clock. Shadow of The Erdtree is taking over in 2 weeks.
Crying at the fact that whoever titled this thought the "300 Tiktoks" in the last clip was the episode number and titled this one 301, lmfao
If this gets enough likes he wont have to change the title
Realizing they'll reach 300 episodes this year, goddamn.
all the changes scream "some exec took over and fucked everything up"
Yeah, the execs forced them onto Unreal 5 after the beta was taken down at the very least.
@@heartlesshealeroh that explains a lot I’ve heard almost nothing but bad things about Unreal 5. Especially baffling since the one perk of U5 is supposed to be the visuals but Multiversus isn’t exactly pushing it’s graphics so it’s just..? Like what’s the point even
@@solomon9655 I don't know too much about the engine itself, but I do know that nothing in the beta was built on it, so they had to recreate all of the 'meat' of the game from scratch. If Unreal 5's big claim is to visuals, then yeah there was no need to switch outside of an executive telling them to work on the new thing. It was just unnecessary work to dump on the developers after the way players had responded to the beta.
@@heartlesshealer WB will of course blame the devs rather than whatever overpaid consultant came up with these genius ideas
15:40 The tragic part is that Nick All-stars 2 has that feature with that Slime meter and Woolie does'nt even know it.
Seriously. Nick Brawl 2 is a GREAT game but no one played it because...reasons? It's a shame Woolie didn't even look at it really.
The state of WB legitimately depresses me.
Edit: Just gonna say that I know all corporations are evil and always screwing stuff over. I just mean with WB they are going the extra mile of just destroying their animations and writing media off for taxes before they even get a chance to come out. The last 2 years specifically just seem like they are dismantling the company just to sell it off to another one. Just seeing people who I've followed for years get their art thrown in the trash for no reason just annoys me more than most companies right now.
But yes, I know everything is shit.
I mean they’ve been pulling this shit for decades, it’s just never been this awful before.
Not saying Disney is better either, WB is just more pathetic. They’re the western equivalent to Konami alongside EA.
@@li-limandragon9287 No, Disney is much better currently. Disney didn't cancel a ton of movies and shows as a tax write off and put hundreds of employees suddenly out of work, nor have they threatened to delist an entire publishers game catalog (though they've dialed this plan back)
WB is on straight up demon timing
@@li-limandragon9287It all started when they decided to give a spider tata's
Don't let corporations get you down bud they suck and will only get wayyyyyy worse the longer they exist.
You'll be happier once you accept that a lot of the movies and shows and franchises you used to like are over now. It's exciting to try out new stuff, as it turns out. It won't be as bad as it feels right now.
Award winning Fighting game of the year 2022 gets released.
Sifu got robbed😢
Kof15 got robbed.
The Game Awards are a fucking joke, a bloody farce.
@@tiredburns6021 Agreed.
So, how long until they kill the servers and call this a tax write off?
I give it until this time next year.
Warner Brothers and Microsoft deserve each other, they’re write off kings.
A year is crazy optimistic. I give it till January at best
That ain’t happening. This game is making way too many money on cosmetics.
i give it until august
@@pedroroma933but not smash bros money
I love how every character plays like theyre wading through mud mixed with cement
I really dislike the movement in this game, but couldn't describe it accurately to my friends until now. Thank you!
They don't really
Mortal Kombat core
@@pandagamer-hg5beI watched Max play for 10 minutes and legitimately thought it was running at half-speed, its jarring how slow and plodding it looks
Edit: I wrote this before I heard Pat say pretty much exactly the same thing
@@pandagamer-hg5be Youre right its even slower than that
The devs mentioned that they had to switch engines during development, and a lot of features from the beta that are sole missing now are going to be reimplimented, but what it tells me is that they were forced out the gate before they were ready to fix everything, another genius WB move.
And the stuff that is rushed/in a poor stated/missing is only HALF the issues with the relaunch.
I'm sure they had to switch but I call bull on this as a good excuse since the beta was lasting for 6+ months, was selling dlc and also had unlockable characters on a weekly rotation! So I don't buy that as a proper excuse plus the game looks like it plays awfully and just looks bad all around.
Sounds like they pushed it out the door when plenty of work still needed to be done. You don't get to throw up your hands after an engine switch and leave everything else to later
It also doesn't explain the massively predatory monetization.
Is switching engines mid development EVER a good idea?
@MrJans3n if it's in the beginning phase of development than possibly, but if you're halfway in or more, absolutely not. No rational dev team would want to do that. It's almost always because of a catastrophic project restart, file loss, corporate mandate/publisher idea, or some combination.
pat might be spot on about multiversus the way it was announced and re-released seemed very random
They needed more ways of getting revenue and they think this greedy "over-monetize game and deliver a worse experience"stuff is going to work. It is not.
@@rudeboyspodcast yeah the executives at WB are stupid as hell
@@Mr.Faust3
Civvie11 said it best about WB and how they handle games during his F.E.A.R. review.
Imagine putting your food back in the oven and it comes out less cooked
My favorite change to Multiverses is how the zoomed in camera forgets about Jerry when I'm playing Tom & Jerry. I guess he's somewhere on the map? Also it hides the cool-down timers. Sick.
Amazing how everytime we get something that tries to rival smash bros they fumble it hard.
Largely because these keep people doing things half-ass, if not just sabotage their own projects.
I think the only Smash bro like game that has done well Is Brawlhalla, that has gotten plenty of support and collabs that happen over the years.
@@ligtningdog6399and expect it becomes as popular in a day
anything non-indie anyway.. Nick All-stars 2 being the only exception so far because it's the slap city devs
@@KeroKaminaXuhhhhhhhh not really
yesterday they announced they were vaulting iron giant until they fix those infinites, which sucks for the people who either grinded for days just to unlock him or buckeld down and paid $9.99 to unlock him fast
Gurantee you giant will be locked away for multiple months
Also sucks for Flashfreeez, the guy who was competing in an online multiversus tournament with Iron Giant when WB pulled the character out of the game *in the middle of the set*. Dude took a round with Iron Giant then went back to character select and the character was *gone*.
@@kevingriffith6011 now THATS fucked
@@kevingriffith6011Actual "shepard's hook around the neck; yanked off stage right mid-performance" moment.
@@kevingriffith6011 Didn't he win anyways?
6:20
Heroes of the Storm with "Heroes 2.0" where they did a bunch of hero reworks, currency rework, and added loot boxes.
The game had a small base but stable and steady growth.
They had exposure on ESPN and collegiate teams.
But they wanted loot boxes! So theu added a ton of emotes, effects, sprays. They went all in on overwatch heroes then cut the team in half
It was heartbreaking to see a game that had a blast playing beong fumbled so hard and effectively leading to it's slow death
Ultimately it's a fault of WB.
They have stated that the re-launch was rushed and were told to push it out before it was ready. Alot of aspects that are missing from the beta are strictly not there because alot of the game had to be remade from scratch for the sake of the new engine and new netcode.
So half of the game is just flat out rushed. . . and the other half was WB saying "make the game more grindy" presumably for monetization purposes.
dude's new main got taken out mid bracket. like holy shit
The bad thing about Nick All Star Brawl 2 is that it didn't completely carry over the first game's roster. That doomed it. They added Raphael and Donatello but took Leonardo, Michelangelo, and Shredder out, and there's weird roster decisions like that over the entire game
While I understand why people don't like the idea of roster cuts, they're 100% necessary for fighting game sequels. As woolie and pat said here in the video, fighting game characters take a lot of time, energy and money to create, even if they already existed in a previous game. You can't just copy+paste the fighter whole cloth from one game to another, every single one of them has to be re-made from scratch.
A lot of those returning characters had complete moveset revamps so keeping all of the old cast would have basically meant having no new characters at all or very few.
@@kevingriffith6011 Oh definitely, its just that when you're trying to be in the same space as Smash roster cuts are a really hard thing to stomach, because your competition didn't make those compromises at all. It just makes both games feel like incomplete packages when 2 should feel like an expansion on something complete
@@shiningknight23 Smash is a *really* unfair comparison, though. It required not only the massive development time required to make all those characters, but also Sakurai's clout and ability to wrangle the rights holders for every single IP present in Smash. Not even Nintendo will be able to match Smash Ultimate with its launch roster. It was a once-in-a-lifetime moment in platform fighters.
I really don't want to be one of those people who says gamers are spoiled, because god knows the games industry has been intentionally sabotaging their products for the sake of squeezing an extra dime out of their players, but I do think it's valid when it comes down to fighting game rosters.
I can appreciate a budokai-style 100+ fighters reskinned from like 6 movesets, but that's not what I want in a competitive PvP fighting game, you know? I want the most unique, highest possible quality fighting game characters these developers can deliver on, not a fistful of rushed out, unbalanced, uninspired rehashes of old ideas.
Wtf
WB can only do one thing to turn everything around. You must go to 505 Games and acquire the most important IP of all time. Naughty Bear.
“Give birth directly into the plot.”
Thank you so much for that mental image, Pat...
At this point, Rivals 2 is gunna be the only competent platform fighter to come out in the near future.
30 frames of input buffer is bananas. who thought that was a good idea?
who tf is numbering the CSB episodes in these clips lmao. we seem to have skipped 29 podcasts. Edit: the titles have been fixed.
Went to the microsoft school of numbering things
Looking forward to CSB 360
lol they saw the 300 in the last clip video title and didn't bother to double check
@@anair1221Oh my god you're right, the title said "300 TikToks" and whoever titled thought that was the episode number, oh my god
@@anair1221 LMAOOOOO
I can't tell if it is actually insanely hard to develop a platform fighter, if every developer who takes a stab at a smash clone is uniquesly bad at it, or both. Like people REALLY like seeing their action figures smash against each other if you are getting major vacklash you have fucked up
Part of the problem is that these exec want to much control on which action figures they want us to use and in what way. Not to mention the, relatively, low budgets.
I mean it is. Smash ultimate only exists because Sakurai is a freak.
I honestly think the only reason Playstation All-Stars failed is because the developers and publishers were thinking "We HAVE to be different from Smash Bros" which led to only Supers being able to kill the opponent. It didn't help either that people had a mindset of "how dare you copy this popular thing" with attempts like these. The good old "Doom-clone" debate.
It also leaned a bit too much into basing its roster on the new thing. So you got DmC Donte and MGR Raiden (who's beloved now but was controversial a decade ago) instead of classic Dante and Solid Snake. Also Big Daddy from Bioshock of all things, who had no affiliation with Sony. Putting that aside, the game had some cool ideas still, such as the merging of stages from different properties. Like Ratchet's stage being consumed by the Hydras from God of War.
@@leithaziz2716 Pkayststion all stars for all its fuslts also had really tight gameplay too. Dante felt fucking great in that game, since he would gun cancel combos into angel/demon weapons, launchers, and kill combos.
how do you manage to make a decent game, take it away for like two years, and literally make it worse in pretty much every way
like did someone sabotage the game on purpose
I mean that's pretty in character for WB these days.
Warner Bros execs do this with like every project that has their brand on it
I'm almost certain Sweet Baby Inc. played a part in this too
They moved from Ue4 to UE5 during their downtime, which causes a lot of issues. I bet they were forced out before they were finished polishing everything nd are trying to restore old features ASAP.
@@mikaela5938They did it twice with Batman related projects. First the Tim Burton films, then Zack Snyder.
Played Multiversus for a bit with my friend, game bricked during local co op, I picked a balanced perk auto load out, he told me to go back and check the big perks cause they change fundamental parts of the characters kit - already I’m not a fan of that, circa MK11, but after trying to go back to the perk menu the game just stopped. No registered inputs for any of us. Had to close application and launch again.
Actual game feel is moderately better than it looks but still VERY slow. Some characters are pure knowledge checks, my friend played Taz and got away with murder until about game 3 then he just stopped winning and moved onto Iron Giant.
I’d charitably give the game about a years life span unless they radically shift the focus and give all characters for free and cosmetics being where you pay
To quote Rodney Dangerfield: Put her back in! She ain't done yet!
This reminds of the similar thing that happened with another WB's game recently. Suicide Squad was delayed a year to "remove/alter live-service elements" and I watched streams playing it and the game was not changed at all since the reveal of it, making me question what were they doing for a whole year.
This is more the opposite issue. Also its on a new engine, we know exactly why it went away for so long.
@@Americanbadashh Sure, I meant it in a way that both of those game were almost done, went back to development, came back and have not improved at all.
@@tyrobityll3418 Fair
They didn't delay it for that reason, people even hoped it was but they had to confirm that it wasntm
Echoing other comments and sentiments, this really does have the feel of the C-suite not understanding that you can't just make this a monetization scheme with a game attached. Smash Bros. was successful because it was a fun game first, but the line must go up, so execs and bean-counters think "we can just skip that part, start cutting it up to sell the parts."
I mean, just look at how much content you get for your money in a single Smash Bros. fighter pass and compare it to this pile of shit. A character, stage, music, and spirit board for only a fraction of what one Multiversus character costs.
Now all we need is for a Marvel style Smash Clone to come out and reap the benefits of an extremely low bar and no expectations.
I’d just rather a new MVC that wasn’t made piss cheap like Infinite was.
At that point, I'd rather just a Marvel fighting game (probably not MVC because it'll never happen after the fiasco of Infinite).
WB was on fire at the time and still is, it’s a miracle this game relaunched at all.
I don't know what happened with NASB. It seems like all they did for promotion was upload character trailers to RUclips and not even push it on any social media. I entered the bracket at combo breaker thinking it would actually be fun and then a bunch of the players and TOs just shit talked the game the whole time and talked about how NASB1 was better.
Oh geez, I keep forgetting NASB2 happened. I'm not trying to throw a jab, it just dissapeared from my mind and no one talks about it.
>Jason gets into Multiversus
>looks to be getting into Fortnite and Call of Duty
>no sign of Dead by Daylight
Entity bros it might be over
After the issue with his game I doubt they wanna even bother
If Jason was in there'd be no reason for Trapper to stay.
Dude, it's been over for eight years.
It feels to me that the execs at wb didnt have any real faith in the game while it was being made and up till launch.
However once it started getting talked about and played a lot, thats when their scummy meddling got in the way.
"Play with your ball first, idiot!"
He was too ready with this.
My expectations were low, but, holy fuck.
Just to clarify, the inability to play characters in training mode and local offline letting you use every character without going through the whole grind are old features that they’re going to reimplement, however from the sound of it, it will be a moment to fix it. I’m not sure how much of these issues are due to scheduling, the engine swap, or just greed, but I can imagine the development team isn’t exactly working in the best environment at the moment.
Fighting game of the year 2022 btw
Wait ... PAT does your grocery store have those tiny future shopper carts? Cause I can't in my mind visualize him, a regular cart and the baby.
Pats like 5'3/5'4, Hes not a fucking midget lol.
I appreciate a sneak peek at the CSB episode thirty or so weeks from now.
the only thing that i care about multiverse is they got Jason in which means the licences holders for Jason are up for collaborations with other IP's and projects which in turn means jason can FINALLY come to DEAD BY DAYLIGHT
Lebron out here with literal infinite dribble combos.
Rivals of Aether is good shit.
Also has very robust modding community
It’s funny watching this and remembering Woolie and Pat pushing for fighting games to embrace the free-to-play model, even wishing Capcom had done so with Street Fighter 6.
Yeah, people can be wrong sometimes lmao.
301? Did I time travel or something?
The fact the whole idea it was "early access" was mentioned maybe once, then they proceeded to act like it was a fully released freemium product with their hands in your pocket for 6 months was always scummy, the fact it relaunched in this state with significantly less hype is poetic justice
This isnt even true. It literally said early access all over the game and all of their press releases. Gamers learn to read challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
@@mxnsab8461 Any game with a fully functional microtransaction shop doesn't get to call itself early access. Also, I've never heard of any other "early access" game that took itself back offline again, that's not how early access works. EA is supposed to involve taking feedback and updating the game until you hit 1.0 and officially "launch," not letting people play the game for half a year and then taking everything away. Shill harder.
@@TyrantWesker grow up.
@@TyrantWesker that is literally how open beta has worked for years. Then you haven't played a lot of f2p early access games. The length it was offline for was long sure. But it wasn't unknown this was going to happen. On top of that; games in early access/open beta have had mtx in them for over a decade (league had mtx in their open beta phase pre release) It is scummy, but not uncommon.
I am also not defending multiversus. I am incredibly disappointed with the state of release and the engine change for seemingly no reason. I am asking yall to not complain about things you were told explicitly about.
30 frame buffer, bad. The changes to the camera, bad. The removal of gold and shift to four different currencies, bad and a lie (they said gold will stay and roll over). The cost of fighters and how little you earn through play, bad. The horrendous state of balance right now, bad. The Agent Smith event, bad.
Like, I don't know why yall complain about something they told you was gonna happen and everyone who paid attention and competed during early access knew this was happening. We didn't know how long it was gonna be down, but we knew it was going down. But I guess I am sorry so many people never listened to Tony or PFG and I am sorry that you are so used to ea/open beta being used as a marketing tool and not for using gamers to stress test it.
On top of that, I am not shilling the game. I don't think most people should play it right now with the state it is in. Because it wasn't ready. And quite frankly, still isn't. Wanting people to not lie about something which has an incredibly long list of real complaints isn't shilling. Unless you think shilling means not correcting misinformation instead of glazing the shit out of a game.
The ball allegory sounds so Pat
Episode 301st infantry
Glad to see it's not just me that thought the game was off as hell. Uninstalling that crap lol.
I havent trusted any WB games since Shadow of War when they added lootboxes to a single player game. Theres no MTX anymore for it but the loot boxes are still there.
Yeah, they removed the gambling stuff thankfully, but the very grindy endgame in War is very obviously designed around it. And I don't think that ever got improved.
@@leithaziz2716They significantly shortened the end game in the same update they removed lootboxes, from 10 stages to something like 3
God, I get depressed every time I think about how great Shadow of War could've been if they didn't jam all those loot-crate mechanics into it. Even without being able to actually spend money, I'm still constantly tripping over tons of worthless gear that's barely different from each other and surrounded by orcs who might as well have been made through a random generator, just because they needed to be able to be sold through a loot box.
The first thing i noticed when i played it was the tutorial. I don't really remember how it was back in the beta but I'm pretty sure they explained everything immediately and gave you some pro tips. but now the tutorial just tell you how to push buttons and that's it.
Also I had some really bad frame drops, even playing alone in the rift against finn and jake
And finally, the game crashed Three time just looking at the store
Fuck, man! I really really liked multiversus
i saw someone claim that MV is going to do better than Smash.
I bet that guy worked for WB
If it's the same guy that I saw, then that dude is huffing mad amounts of copium.
Pet Cemetery moment
"Sometimes, dead is better"
Multiversus slowing down due to 'feedback' is so strange to me, because so much of what I remember hearing when it first dropped was people going 'Man, this would be more fun if it was like 15-20% faster.'
I remember people like Max saying its a bit slippery, even too fast. they probably wanted to slow it down so people could follow the action better, but maybe they overcorrected.
@@CountofBleck Yes, people generally said it was a little slippery. It's just that this can feel like an overcorrection.
From what I understand, based on what some folks playing the game were saying, one major point of feedback from the beta was that players found that a lot of things were difficult to whiff punish. As in there were big moves that felt like they should be punishable on whiff that weren't. It's possible that either the devs misunderstood that complaint as "the game's too fast" or somehow thought that slowing the game down would be the best way to fix this (it wasn't obviously).
@@LotS-quagthe strange part is how during the original run they just straight up changed how hitboxes work, lots of characters had stationary pills that didn’t cover their very wide limbs, and some got their hitboxes converted from 3D to 2D. I wonder how much of it was due to the speed and how much was due to the game being made while people were playing it
The game is still really fun and the new characters feel like some of the best yet. It needs a lot of changes to stay relevant but each character is animated in a really fun way and plays different enough that it's a really good time just checking out the roster and playing with some friends at the very least
And now WB will shrug and conclude *"fighting game with our properties was a bad idea, wasnt our fault no sir"* like the geniuses they are.
"Hi Hoodie Woolie what's up"
Another victim of Unreal Engine 5 optimization
I have noticed a pattern of every time a game runs utterly like crap is because of whatever numbered unreal engine version that's out at the time is a crapfest.
Rivals 2 looks like it's going to rule
The way Multiversus locks characters is very strange because they aren't skins - they're characters with unique movesets and archetypes. Why would you not make them available at all times?
They're doing the Overwatch 2 thing.
Because the marketers are running the show, and they don't gaf about the distinction you mentioned
This is the type of bs I worry about when I hear people say. Make fighting games GAAS. Screw that
Suicide Squad and Multiversus make me not wanna touch the Wonder Woman game with a ten foot pole.
the fact that it's a videogame about comic book super heroes should already do that
301 clip? That's like 30 episodes from the future.
WB once again being WB and complaining why they're not getting any money.
It takes real effort to put your game on hold out of the beta phase to improve it, and it somehow comes out worse (I'm not talking strictly about the gameplay).
Imagine them doing that to your car, just leaving it in the shop for a week and when you get it back there's a black plume of smoke coming out of the back and it's 50%slower 😂
Why does Woolie always confuse crews with doubles? He even made the point during the 2XKO talks last week about the difference between tag games. Crews is like KoF, Doubles is like the bonkers groove in 2XKO. The Wombo Combo happened in Doubles.
It is baffling to me how Warner brothers has tried to make a live service game a thing three times in a row now, every time they have been ruthlessly mocked, and they still refuse to take the L because they insist that they can make this happen. I am like 98% convinced that this is all just a product of David Zaslav going out of his way to kill anything Warner / Discovery owns which doesn't fall on the Discovery side of the line because he's pissed that Discovery plus isn't as relavent as he thinks it should be. he refuses to let it die so he's either turning your favorite shows into tax write-offs, cancelling fully finished movies, or doing everything within his power to ruin good developers, all to keep his awful streaming service afloat.
I think forgetting about Nick All Star Battle 2 is just Pat and Woolie not being into Platform Fighters... and Smash players generally not being into any game that isn't Smash. Rivals kinda turned itself into Smash MUGEN at some point with Steam Workshop as well so it blew up in popularity but the other indie titles can't be so lucky. I don't think Fraymakers, Rushdown Revolt, or Brawlout were all that bad just to name a few but at the end of the day a platform fighter needs recognizable characters otherwise people won't obsess over it enough to make it a thing.
These game devs trying so hard to copy the success of smash bros XD
ive been playing the game and doing my damnedest to like it but the constant desyncs and actually removed content like the arcade mode, it makes it difficult. This game absolutely is making me want to get an Ethernet cable though more than any other online game
ethernet doesn't help lmao, remember this is the game that decided to actually do the funny "dedicated servers" bit for a fighting game
The desyncs are real bad, but if you're playing fighting games on wifi I have no sympathy for online issues you have to deal with
I'm just waiting for Rivals of Aether 2, the betas were so much fun lol. also, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the re-release trailer...it already was too slow n floaty, then they made it worse??? and they were playing it over a year and nobody said "yo hold on?"...MAD.
idk roa 1 fucking sucked and I'm not gonna hold my breath
Got my pocket Maypul on, I'm ready to be the reason why someone closes roa 2
301? a cast that hasn't happened yet?
301 club!
I originally played the beta through a vpn cause the game wasn't available in my country, and let me tell you that the game felt better even then.
So I can think of two games that were MUCH better in Beta than the full release: Omega Strikers and RWBY Grim Eclipse.
Omega Strikers was like a lite version of what happened to Multiversus. They slowed the game down too much and matches take too long and everyone hated it. The game was cool because the matches were short and quick. Now I get bored of it before the match is over.
RWBY though...hoo boy. It's a COMPLETELY different game. In the Beta it was basically an online co-op Musou game but with a big of hidden meat on its bones. Then when they had to change the character models (because the old RWBY models were actually using stolen MMD assets without permission and yes that was in the show too) they did a "combat update" and tried to make the game more Arkham-like and it ruined everything. Enemy swarms are tiny now, bunch of moves got cut, game lost ALL of its challenge and now it's just spam counter button. It's a DRASTIC downgrade.
EDIT: Oh geeze. I just looked at my Steam Library and saw another: PSO2 New Genesis. THAT...was a mistake.
I 100% get not playing nick 2 with the first game destroying everyones fairh but its a shame cuz nick 2 is a MUCH better game beyond just voices. Ludiosity made a massive upgrade to the mechanics, production and feel from nick 1.
But nick 1 burned too many people and even some of the few nick 1 loyalist were upset from the roster cuts.
This game had to release the day it did because settings are coming in a later update.
Lebron was a mistake
Le Epic Shaggy UI Shaggy meme was a mistake
Black Adam was a mistake
Banana Guard was a absolute mistake
Just by looking at the rooster it's clear this game was a mistake.
I really really wish more GaS bullshit that was meant to be like a hype platform advertising machine for a company's IPs was viewed like SaGa Re:Universe.
It's low budget, it doesn't bring in a lot of money, but the head of the IP at Square has said he views it as just like, a fun advertisement for the series so as long as people are playing it and new people are finding the series through it, it's doing it's job, ya know?
But no, the only benefit most companies see of shit like this is that it can make them money forever if they keep putting money in forever, instead of having it as the thing that's keeping fans' dedication to their IP alive, which in turn will boost sales of merch/movies/streaming shows whatever else they have to sell you.
Aim to make some of the money while keeping people happy so they'll buy your other shit instead of trying to be fucking fortnite $$ and just pissing off everyone
Games coming back worse: Overwatch 2 revamped hitboxes so everyone is made of giant cubes.
Rivals 2 mentioned!
Not to mention that the game pretty much doesnt work online if you dont have a wired connection. Its such a shame. The game had HUGE potential to be an actual real rival to Smash. But nope, they had to mess it up. This game will die soon like the rest.
The central story to Iron Giant is that of a being created for war taking back their agency to become a pacifist who deplores harm and violence. Cue nerd-focused late-stage capitalism: "HEY IRON GIANT, REMEMBER HIM? HE HAS ALL THESE SUPERS IN OUR FIGHTING GAME. HE HAS A RAY GUN"
@lbcyber I mean the game is already brain dead enough to put Bugs Bunny and other cartoon characters along Jason and Miss Arya my franchise is full of rape and murder Stark, you think Iron Giant’s themes of altruism, not violence are gonna stay intact.
“DO YOU REMEMBER IRON GIANT?!?! GOTTA CLAP FOR THAT!!! I’M GONNA CUM!”
Iron Giant was one of thousands of combat robots, that look and function identically to him.
“DO YOU REMEMBER IRON GIANT?!?! GOTTA CLAP FOR THAT! IM GONNA CUM!”
Can't have phantom inputs if you implement modern controls! Just saying
so who's gonna get woolie to play keylocker?
I literally forgot that multiversus and nick all star brawl were different games, thats how forgettable that game was.
Pat looked kinda disinterested when he saw the "dog with sword and cape" in the Rivals 2 trailer.
30F :O?!?
I know that games take a long time to make, but I cant get over how wb saw the success of the most 5/10 game ever in Hogwarts legacy, and are still pushing all this live service bs. Like I know execs are idiots and the line must go up, but how many millions of dollars gotta be waisted before somebody gets fired.
Also I would probably be excited about a playable ruby if they didn't channel their inner XBOX and just laid off the entire studio of people who made her show.
Here's hoping we at least get some of the music from Casey.
The business part went worse because they already knew a ton of people wanted to jump on it, so they could risk being greedier
EVERYBODY POINT AND LAUGH AT WB.
Did you see the shit about how they said being able to purchase extra lives in the rifts mode was a "bug"
A lot of Platformers make a fatal mistake that dooms their game immediately.
My guess is that the choice to put LeBrom James in the game for the sake of shoving more Space Jam into people's faces forced WB to be even more scummy than usual in order to keep up with his royalty fees.....
B-But the shareholders though
i don't hate it. i don't really understand where all the hate is coming from?
As an Iron Giant main, I am pissed at WB and PFG.
Like what were you doing for the year after the "beta"(revisionist history)?
The game runs worse on unreal 5. Its like they dont realize that thier game is on the clock. Shadow of The Erdtree is taking over in 2 weeks.
Shadow of The Erdtree is paid content. They aren't even competitors with each other.
@@Americanbadashh they are competing for time, not just money.
I would love to play smash ultimate, if I could have it on steam!
I am grateful for the relaunch, it reminded me to delete my wb games account.
It seems when the game "went back to the kitchen" the chief heard your complaints, rubbed his ass with it, and sent it back out.