This State Wants to Censor Your Ability to Give Advice
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- The First Amendment’s protection for free speech isn’t limited to political advocacy or expressions of personal opinion-it extends to speech on all topics. That includes expert advice that people earn a living providing, an area known as occupational speech.
For many Americans, this sort of expert advice is among the most valuable speech for helping people navigate the real problems they face in their day-to-day lives.
That’s why the North Carolina Justice for All Project and two of its members, Morag Black Polaski and Shawana Almendarez, have joined with the Institute for Justice to file a federal lawsuit to vindicate their right to provide both free and paid legal advice regarding court-created forms.
ij.org/case/north-carolina-upl/
America is in the midst of an access-to-justice crisis. For many Americans facing routine legal issues-whether they relate to divorce, child custody, evictions, or any number of problems that make up the bulk of state courts’ civil dockets-hiring a lawyer to navigate these problems is simply unaffordable.
And this is not a problem limited to the poor.
It is also a problem for the “missing middle”-those who earn too much to qualify for free legal assistance from groups like Legal Aid, but not enough to afford a lawyer. The inevitable result is that many Americans must navigate the legal system on their own.
This law was written by lawyers to protect their bottom line because if a paralegal can answer the question at $50/hr then a lawyer won't get to bill at $300/hr to answer the same question.
Agree
The law is designed to protect the public against the unauthorized practice of law. What they are proposing is giving out legal advice without a license to do so . They didn't go to law school, they didn't pass the bar, they don't have malpractice insurance which would cover them if they gave out negligent advice, and they aren't subject to disciplinary proceedings with the state bar. If you want to pay $50 / hr for a paralegal to handle your case (assuming you can still find one at that rate in today's economy) then go to a law firm. The attorney can assign a paralegal do the work at a paralegal rate, if the work is something the paralegal is legally allowed to do. The attorney is ultimately responsible for the work the paralegal performs and the public is protected.
@@squirrelattackspidy I think we found our appeal to authority wonk.
No this is about a group doing their damdest to protect their bottomline and nothing else.
@@squirrelattackspidyit would seem you clearly support this. Following the logic you support... every single profession that required school, an exam, insurance, and some form of disciplinary proceedings... should be able made into a similar law, to protect the public?
@@squirrelattackspidy your coomant is ridcuous I ddint go to culinary school yet I know a thing or 2 about cooking seems you think only lawywrs know the law
Yup, even a retired Engineer is getting censored for doing math cuz it criticizes public structures lol
Land of a free turning into a land of being afraid of not staying compliant.
This hasn't been a free country for a long time. Maybe you are just now figuring that out?
@@atlasadonis3752It’s never been free. The outlines are ideals to strive for. And the tools to enact them. We’ve gotten much better in many ways. Worse in others. It’s a fight you don’t ever get to stop fighting. If you do, you will lose them. Change your frame of the issue, or you will burn yourself out, and become a bitter husk. One who can no longer fight, or worse, can no longer identify right. This is a practice you need to set up in your life. Not a battle. Not even a war. But an ongoing method or strategy of interaction.
@@chickenmonger123 thank you. ✌
@@atlasadonis3752 The truth about this country's legal problems isn't something that comes easily to the many that do not get that wisdom from higher education, age, or experience. The pure deception and usurpations of the "justice system" isn't taught in public school and it never will be. That is the problem, and it can be so easily solved. But just as this subject video discusses, govt WILL NOT allow it to be, especially by those that have to give full allegiance to the court as terms of their employment as BAR & ABA card carriers. Too many of those card carriers even refuse to hold the court to its most basic and first canon. But here we are! Gingerly discussing the implications and penalties of those courts NOT adhering to those canons and figuring out a way to work around illegal law-making judges that can ruin every people, person, citizen, and resident in their path. It's called the supreme law of the land for a reason. But not when it interferes with govt operations intent on violation of every right and liberty of the damn free people in their way of the almighty dollar and corrupt power. Or is one just now figuring that out?
@@atlasadonis3752he makes a good point tho…😮
Legal defense and advice should be free, period.
It’s all about lawyers making their dollar and not giving free advice. And Uncle Sam of course needs his cut.
Have you ever heard of the term "pro bono" work? These ladies are going to work for free? That's nice. Who will be paying the office rent and overhead?
@@squirrelattackspidy Why would there need to be an office, this could be done in a person's home?
@@MikeHarrison3266 You kind of missed the point there. You could have a home office. Who would be paying the overhead?
@@squirrelattackspidy Did you invest in them? No? So you have no stake if someone decides to do things for free right? So what is the point of your comment? It doesnt seem you have a point, so its no wonder why someone missed it.
@@squirrelattackspidygod damn dude, you’re all over the comments sucking yourself off 😂
The law uses a different language so that only those that can afford to hire or own a translator will be represented.
So when my dear mum cleaned and put a plaster on a cut after I did something stupid she was breaking the law by practising medicine without a licence.
Nah… she was rendering first aid.
Thank you for fighting for "Justice for all."
YES, THANK YOU, AS IT IS SOMETHING WE DON'T HAVE RIGHT NOW! (JUSTICE)
seems like some gangster shit by lawyers. squeezing out the competition so they can charge whatever they want for product...
Rackets are rackets .
Private sector , public sector , all the same .
Knowlege IS power.! The government wants people powerless. We the people must disband.. by defunding... ALL such governmental agencies.!! It IS time.! Knowlege must remain a RIGHT for any and all who seek it.!
This is ridiculous. Recently I had to navigate The UK's benefits and housing system. Which I couldn't have done without the advice of our local disabled advice charity. The were excellent, helped fill in forms, which were labyrinthine. I'm not unintelligent, but the forms, as my dad would've said, "They want to know the ins and outs of a cat's arsehole!"
It's all designed , by lawyers .
I commend IJ for being so principled. Litigating causes that diminish the regulatory structures that "protect" the legal profession, of which they are defined by, shows an amazing dedication to seeking equality.
I need help with getting a refund from two companies that charge credit cards one also did a fraud charge still no refund and close dispute against my will
Can you help with this??
MAKE THE JUDGES WALK THE TRAIL OF TEARS IN WINTER!!!
It goes beyond this. I am a licensed provider in Vermont and because I spoke with an unlicensed provider in another state regarding general matters regarding childbirth. I am now a convicted felony for text message speech only between two friends.
What kind of license do you hold? Who reported you?
@@lasmith07I hold a midwifery license.
❤ thank you institute for justice for all you do,
HOW MUCH JUSTICE CAN YOU AFFORD ? NONE IF THE REGULATORS SHUT YOU DOWN , BY THREATS OF ARREST !
I was a building contractor for 20 years now I'm retired and no longer have a license. Should it be illegal for me to give advice when someone has a construction project?.
As long they know you're retired.. and may not have current current advice..then Yeah you're an expert then.
I am a former journalist who ended up in prison. During my incarceration, I decided to earn a paralegal certificate from a company which markets its courses to inmates. After getting out, I found it literally impossible to find a law firm or other organization requiring paralegals to even look at me. Two years of work and over $1,000 down the drain. It's unfortunate that the players in our criminal justice system, regardless of what side they claim to be on, aren't willing to take a chance on someone their system put in prison.
It's a "good old boys" game. You Have to kiss the right rings or be owned by the right rich people.
$1000? You’re complaining about getting nearly-free education while incarcerated rather than just sitting on your ass, because no one will hire you (which likely has everything to do with your record and nothing to do with your education)?
Not everyone gets to work in their field(s) of choice. In the end you gained knowledge and made productive use of your time behind bars, even if you don’t end up putting the knowledge gained to use occupationally.
@@piezoman79 Nearly free? What is most unfortunate is that one company in particular heavily markets their paralegal courses to inmates. They do not advise that getting a job as a paralegal with a criminal record is, to put it mildly, a challenge. While keeping busy behind bars is a commendable goal, these "certificate" companies inflate hopes that quickly become dashed upon release. And you can't compare paying something over $1,000 for a correspondence paralegal "certificate" with earning an associates degree costing thousands more. When you're making something like 40-cents an hour as an inmate, one or two thousand dollars is a significant amount of money. I could have spent my time reading books from the library for free--which I did as well. Indeed, I managed the non-fiction book section of the prison library for three years, but that certainly couldn't get me a job in a public library.
A society that locks up more of its citizens than any other country on earth does more to erect roadblocks to successful reintegration into society than avenues to success. The United Police States of America seek to punish as many citizens as possible and then after release, keep their boots on their necks to insure failure and return them to their prison-industrial complex.
@@piezoman79right? I have two grad. degrees and can't find SQUAT!
@@piezoman79one of the worst things about someone “paying their debt to society” is that they never actually do get to pay their debt-they get discriminated against all the time. So which way is it? If serving your sentence pays your debt, then why can employers still hold that payment against you? Because this literally prevents these people making a living, which if they were hard criminals makes crime the more likely way they try to make that living-it’s a terrible situation, especially if someone committed a very minor crime when they were young and stupid. I mean, if they do manage to stay honest and still can’t earn a living, we doom ourselves to paying for their needs through public assistance.
I'm so thankfull that IJ has taken on this case. It will impact many people, and is so important for keeping the 1st amendments protection for all. Sometimes it feels like we are fighting the same "rights", over and over again. It is very important that we continue to fight for our rights. The "upsolve" project seems like it has been needed for awhile now. Thank you for all you do to keep the law available to all.
Defund all gov-involved compulsory occupational licensing!
What's weird is how many of us give out legal advice to each other, we're all over RUclips, etc. yet people that have actual knowledge can't??? That makes zero sense
We're not allowed to either. But because so many people break the law, they only enforce it against a select few - normally against people who do it for pay, but sometimes against people who the prosecutor has a personal vendetta against.
@@me-myself-i787 I thought you could give your opinion (free speech) and it's not considered actual legal advice because we have neither a license nor are we paid for it. See? You gave your advice and I countered it with my own. It's up to an individual to look into it more and decide for themselves. Nothing illegal here
While many courts provide nifty fill in the blank forms, the complexity and pitfalls are crazy. This is even more prevalent in this day of “do it on line”.
Wow! No bottom to how awful our governments can get
Kudos to IJ, keep up the outstanding work!
According to the courts it seems like if you have a job you can afford a lawyer. Nevermind buying groceries or paying the rent. You gotta put your money into getting a lawyer.
I would imagine that some of these paralegals that have years of experience, actually know the laws, and have more actual practice than some of the attorneys they work for. As I have always understood it, paralegals do pretty much all of the work, then the attorneys take said work in front of the judge.
That's my understanding..,..they do the research, paperwork and get things in order for the lawyers.
There are many professions where the worker under the so called professional do all the work and know as much or more than the professional
I am not surprised this is taking place in "business friendly" North Carolina. First Drone service providers and now Paralegals. Get them good IJ!
Love the work by Ij.
1. We can lawfully help by using the legal term "Next Friend".
2. It's all about protecting the system's money 🤑
3. Can I give driving advice? It's regulated!
This is an important video. Liked it.
Thanks for your engagement! Likes and comments like yours help our videos reach more people on RUclips.
Freedom of speech shall not be infringed.
It's phenomenal that this has finally came around! The choice to give the same advice for more or less money is a matter of freedom.
Amazing work IJ!
Yes! Excellent work. thank you ❣
This is price fixing.
Would a cop Mirandizing a detained suspect , qualify as giving legal advice sans a law license ?
Yes, it would. Especially since most law enforcement officers don’t know sh** about the actual law. They are just the people hired to inject citizens into their $trillion dollar “justice” trap.
Sometimes a public defender has to bite his lip metaphorically
🤔. Thank you Institute for Justice Institute for bringing the free speech problem to light.
Myself a master of constitutionally protected 'Writ of Habeas Corpus'. I assisted many prose folks, preparing Writ, then served on court via Registerd Mail upon their PO Box.
This form of law, is British! Why are we using it here??? It’s the BAR- British accredited registry! Things need to change.
The American legal system has its roots in the British Common Law for what should be obvious reasons.
Where I live there is a business that helps people navigate the Department of Motor Vehicles. They act as interpreters for those who don't speak or read English. They go to the DMV with the customer and help them fill out the forms and navigate their way through that little nightmare . I don't really see the difference.
The difference is DMV workers are either paid a salary or hourly. Attorneys charge per client based on the particular work done.
If someone pays for help dealing with DMV, the employees still make the same amount of money. If a paralegal does the work an attorney would usually do, the attorney generally doesn't make money from it. They will frame the argument as "safeguarding the public by only having a licensed attorney" do the work but it's obviously nothing other than greed and maintaining the status quo.
@@woodsrdr the irony in all of this is that most of the time the paralegal will be advising the client, don't go to court without an attorney.
@@woodsrdr Except that the paralegal is paid by the attorney / firm and they assume responsibility for the paralegal's work. And the paralegal is doing the work, not the attorney, and at the paralegal rate. Can you imagine a city allowing unlicensed electricians to perform work on construction projects? I can't.
@@squirrelattackspidy Its pretty useless logic as anyone can get their electricians license by just paying a fee, and there are hundreds of useless licensed electricians that shouldn't have one. I'm guessing you didn't know that, along with a lot of other things, before you commented. Nor does it seems like you have an active or vivid imagination if you can think of something so simple.
@@steffansmith3601 I work in commercial construction. I thought it best for me to not get started about trade licensing, inspections or codes.
I went to my Local D.A office for them to define a law for me, they turned me away and told me they can't give me legal advice.
I told them it's not legal advice for the district attorney to define a law for a citizen.
Of course it's legal advice.
Unless you simply wanted them to read the law to you. But that would be a waste of their time. You can read it yourself - every law in existence is listed on the Internet.
Thank you, for all you do.
I'm glad you mentioned that false information is not protected. I got worried that this fight would protect ALL speech. I've gotten lots of misinformation from the VA that should NOT be protected but is. 😢
A lot of paralegals know the law better than the lawyers they work with. This is super stupid, as a non legal person I can give legal advice all day long, but someone trained in the law cannot?
Go go go get ‘em!
the founding fathers KNEW there were ALWAYS going to be those driven to silence others. THATS WHY THEY PUT THIS ONE FIRST.
North Carolinian here, thank you IJ!
This is really good work and well put together these women are beautiful and these gentlemen are sharp. Let's all keep fighting for our rights. I can get behind that.
Well said.
Why the women are beautiful, they're sharp as well. The men are sharp but beautiful as well. Rethink how you phrase things, it can seem like you're complimenting but its actually an insult. Being beautiful is a throw of the DNA dice while educating yourself is a concentrated effort and an actual accomplishment
Very sexist comment
@@lindaward3156 It looks like we need to invoke the IJ to defend our right to call a woman beautiful without being sued.
@@mxMik Sued? Where did you get that? It's ok to call a woman beautiful but it's not ok to imply that that's an accomplishment over the intelligence of the men in the room. Its condescending and annoying to be knowledgeable in your field only to be recognized for your looks. Work hard, study for years, become outstanding in your field - and then get "complimented" because of your looks. It's *not* ok
The constitution grants right to counsel… that should be anyone… not just lawyers
Thank you IJ ❤👍.
This actually has been going on for 50 years
I’m against licensure, very few (if any) occupations should be controlled by the government.
COPS ARE ALLOWED TO COMMIT FRAUD AND LIE ?
Kansas doesn't allow professional advice, paid nor free, I've always understood. Hair cuts and babysitting without State approval is frowned upon.
This would help with at least the court system procedural pit falls that people unknowingly might get themselves into. That would be a huge help already. This is such an important issue you are addressing! Hope you win! Thank you!
Thanks
All of your work is appreciated
Wow.. talk about the government overstepping it's boundaries.!!!
I'd like you guys to take a case where people are fired for what they do outside of work. THAT has to stop!
In 99% of cases I'd agree. The exception being if your job entails being a public representative of a company. In those cases part of your job credentials is your personal reputation. If you manage to screw that up you have potentially rendered yourself unfit for the job.
Are you talking about government employees? or private employment? if private, even for "at-will" hires?
@@siggyincr7447 Nope. Not on the clock; not working. No job should have that kind of hold on an employee. You're not a slave. They don't own you. Your free time should be unaccosted by your employer.
@@2Truth4Liberty yes.
@@2Truth4Liberty I'm talkin about everyone! Why should the place you go to just to earn money have any say whatsoever in what you do when not on-the-clock? It's nunya! If I want to disrobe on whatever that website is called, how is it my employer's business? So long as I'm not doing it: in work, on their time, or in their uniform. Other than that, they have absofuckinlutely no say in what I do for fun or additional income.
This would be awesome, I hope they can get it applied Nationwide. I have wondered about people that fall into what I consider the FU Zone. Sorry, you make too much money to get free legal aid, but oops, you don't have enough discretionary income and / or savings to pay for a lawyer. So if that person is brought in on a crime they didn't commit, and police want to interrogate them, they say I want a lawyer, now what?
This would have huge implications in divorce and child custody courts
The FU zone: most of the people living in the 'Land of the Free'.
Wow. God speed, IJ!
You guys rock.
They need to write many books on how to do different thing in court and just say my book are $25.00 each. What is a book you copy right a computer generated form off your computer and call it a book. The book gives easy to understand and how to do line by line for each court form. You may have wrote the book and sold them the book but you personally did not tell them how to do it. Then you can tell the government to F O. I love how they gave the answer to the problem as they was speaking. I love the IJ.
I agree with Robert Barnes. Law licenses are absurd and need to be gotten rid of. Same goes with all the surrounding "practicing law without a license" type crap.
All of that aside, giving advice is clearly speech.
Want to protect against fraud? Take it up on case by case basis. Punish the wrongdoers, not everyone.
Thank you.
This would be akin to nurse practitioners and physicians assistants in the medical field which have worked out very well. Frankly, it's about time for this. Thank you.
Good for you, I am doing a book for NY'ers on NY criminal law that everyone can use...
Lol $500 an hour, at that rate if you get off the lawyer owns you.
This is a law that allows legal law firms to charge lawyer rates for their paralegals to do this.
Go get'em!
Sue them! You will win! Jesus Christ.
Lawyer's Guild protecting their incomes. There is a liability issue, but that is separate from free speech rights.
Why would the government hold back someone from providing a harmless service to others?
Thank you all.
We need a lot more firms like yours...
The 2A says shall not be infringed, it is just a suggestion too.
This is clearly about breaking up a monopoly at the end of the day. Lawyers don’t want their “lesser” counterparts, paralegals to get a piece of their action. The truth is there are not enough lawyers, probably by design? Some of these paralegals are probably better than some actual lawyers based on their experience.
If this were just about doing the right thing, it would be to help these people with lower fees for access to legal services.
Rather than work against them, why haven’t lawyers embraced them? Bring them into the profession in some capacity (with a pay raise obviously). By alienating the paralegals they will never ever join your profession, and worse turn the public against lawyers. Paralegals are on the morally correct side of this argument.
80% of a lawyer's work is done by para-legals.
As long as someone isn't claiming to have credentials that they don't, then people should be able to give whatever advice they want to and people can choose to pay them or not.
Love you guys!!
"Professionals" will always use the government to protect their profession.
A realtor can't tell you where the bad neighborhood is.
This is crazy 😧
If the medical profession can have nurse practitioners or physicians assistants practice medicine under the supervision of a doctor, why can’t the legal profession use paralegals to practice under lawyers?
greed of lawyers
Of course it's North Carolina. In my experience paralegals tend to be more knowledgeable than a lot of attorneys.
Lawyer politicians.
It comes down to proving a damage caused by the advice given. Paralegals do all the paperwork any way and understand the administration of of law just as well as any attorney.
free speech is free speech...if its not violent you can say what ever you want...
Gross over simplification. One that will get people sideways with the law.
you mean sideways with pigs@@ShainAndrews
Can't afford a doctor? Here's a pharmacist. Can't afford a lawyer? Here's a paralegal. American Dream gone off the rails 😢
Art 1 Sec 10 " No state shall make any law impairing the obligation of contract".
Thank you
Great cause! Keep up the good work
Its not only here we are losing our freedoms, but goid fir you guys being here! We also losing our rights to privacy in major huge ways from just driving down a dtrett to and tjinh we use that has a cjop in it.
Well argue the sixth article in the Bill of Rights. The right to counsel. I have the right to ask as many people I wish for their counsel on any issues I have.
If I believe my cats are counsel I have a right to use them as counsel. If men believe they have power delegated to them by people who don't have a right to delegate powers they don't have why can't I believe my cats can counsel?
Hey lawyers, I applied to work with your entity but never heard back. I just wanted to point out that a "jailhouse lawyer" is allowed to provide legal advice and write court pleadings - when paralegals with no criminal record are barred from doing that. So, essentially, criminal inmates have MORE rights than non-offenders. I would use that as part of your court argument, if I were you. A sane/reasonable judge should recognize that inmates should not have MORE rights than the rest of us. My 2 bits. Now can you guys hire me too? :)
I'll tell you what the problem is... It helps the people, but hurts the state... Services like these cost lawyers and the state money that they would be prevented from collecting otherwise.... It's all about money and control...
Didn't the state of Oregon just get smacked down over something similar to this.
And in a lawyer's office, they would be the 'face', while the paralegal did the 'work'. Why not skip the lawyer for forms like these? It seems very reasonable to me.
The bar associations in concert with the government has created a closed shop union. The goal is to maintain high hourly rates for attorneys. Most legal process are not that complicated if you had a year to study. Why it looks so hard is because there is so much code and rules of procedure. In simple cases anyone with a high school education could do it if motivated however the problems are the courts are prejudice against the pro se. There is a need to allow non-attorney advocates to provide a lower cost service and to provide due process. I have told people with traffic tickets if you cannot afford a lawyer do it your self even if you lose you can appeal and it will be the least expensive legal education you can get. A few with some guidance have successfully selected a jury, cross examined witnesses and mad final arguments and won their case with a not guilty. The law belongs to the people. Keep up the good work.
Yes, the law belongs to the people, but the people make the law very, very complex. It’s a process that developed since the Normans instituted their legal system in Britain. A paralegal will know the forms to fill out for their field of law, and that’s helpful, but the truth is that there are so many aspects to the law and if you rely on advice from a paralegal, then you might very well be missing very important parts of the law.
People hate lawyers, and that sentiment is often deserved, but no matter what people say, lawyers don’t make the law. Politicians make the law and over the centuries it gets mired and tangled and very, very messy. If you go to a paralegal for your divorce, they might not notice the obscure law about their property rights or a contract that can have a really big impact on your case.
The advocates of this practice will say that some wizened old paralegal will be able to help, and that is likely true, but this proposal also will include very inexperienced or completely ignorant “paralegals.” Unless of course they only intend to protect licensed paralegals, in which case you’re only slightly diluting the pool of legal advice, and it’s just protecting a lower level of licensing.
I guess you get what you pay for. Maybe people would stop hating lawyers. Nah, that’ll never happen. :)
We got gypted $over 14k from a debt consolidation company, Spring Legal. Bunch of legal crooks, that steal your payment money for “legal fees”.
should not knowledge of the law be available to every citizen at no charge?
If people are finding it harder to "pay for legal services" then how about lowering your costs to where people can afford legal services? Why should we have to fork over $1,000-10,000 up front before anything is even done and that money is lost regardless of the outcome of the case?
It is bad enough that my 2nd ex-wife and I found the divorce forms online, printed them out, filed them out and filed in the courts all at just the cost of the printed paper and court costs which was still $500 for a 15 minute reading and verification of the information on the forms and this was 14 years ago. If either of us would have obtained a lawyer that cost would have been another minimum of $1,500 over and above the court costs.
RECOMMEND , SUGGEST , ADVISE........ITS ALL FREE SPEECH!!!
..until its paid for...then it ain't free
Not quite as bad as Californistan's 1st and 2nd Amendment violations of vague and overbroad restrictions on speech regarding firearms to minors.