Voluntary Extinction
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- Опубликовано: 18 мар 2021
- Fanart of the Month: www.deviantart.com/avgforaver...
Twitter: / solar_sas
Second Channel: / @solarsands2
Music in order of Appearance
Pilotredsun - Deathly
Final Fantasy VII - Costa Del Sol
Boards of Canada - Trasnmisiones Ferox
Half Life 2 OST - Lab Practicum
Oneohtrix Point Never - The Trouble With Being Born
Gavriel - Red Twighlight - In Between Years
Gavriel - Red Twighlight - Hyn
C418 - Perhaps I will never meet you in person
Boards of Canada - Audiotrack 12
Boards of Canada - Up The March Bank
Tobacco - Refbatch
David Benatar - Better to Have Never Been
is what most of this video was based on as much of the video is presenting his arguments and building upon them.
Other sources used:
plato.stanford.edu/entries/re...
positivepsychology.com/pollya...
faculty.washington.edu/jdb/art...
www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trendi... - Развлечения
When did Solar Sands go from looking at minion porn to talking about how to end all human suffering?
Cause and effect
To be fair, seeing that does drive at least some existentialism in a person
I think you answered your own question
I think the dip happened some time after his first Liminal Spaces video.
Idk but i like his new videos
2019: haha funny art
2021: should everyone die?
This is more or less my entire life right here sine 2019
Quite the evolution.
Edgy year
OPs comment could also be referring to life before/after the COVID-19 pandemic lol
@@LazyLoonz Not to sound edgy but;
Dinosaurs have been on earth for about 165 million years and humans have been here for only 300,000. It is more likely for us to be extinct before anything interesting happens. But Of course if we lasted longer than dinosaurs if we somehow managed to trust and be loyal to eachother for more than 165 *million* years we might actually have a chance to start a better and stronger species without us ever having to be brutally burnt out of existence :)
SolSands: "people tend to remember good more than the bad..."
Me: i think you got it backwards buddy
SolSands: "people who are mentally healthy"
Me: Ah. I see.
😂😂
This is a real "oh..." moment.
Yup. The lucky, oblivious people who haven't endured the bad things -- such as neglect and solitude, abuse and violence, barbarism and torture, and blatant hatred -- are the people who remember the good things more than the bad things.
These lucky, oblivious people are the ones who are the quickest to (a)denigrate the character of, (b)diminish the experiences of, and (c)justify the bad things that happen to, the unlucky people who had to endure the bad things.
As an anti-natalist Christian, I don't want to wish bad things upon anyone. But I pray that the lucky, oblivious people come to experience the bad things -- that they find themselves immersed in the depths of suffering -- to the extent that takes to force their hearts and minds into compassion and empathy.
@@matthewingerson What a bingo
"The lucky, oblivious" - "(a)denigrate the character of"
"who haven't endured the bad things" - "(b)diminish the experiences of"
"I pray that the lucky, oblivious people come to experience the bad things" - "(c)justify the bad things that happen to"
I think the reference may have been made for our grandparent's era. Today, if one does not remember the negative, we would be destined for a very short life. There will also be little left to remember. The putrefication of humanity has made it essential the remaining good people must remember the negative to simply survive.
The concept of anti-natalism is fascinating to me, but the majority of people online seem to only be interested in shitting on other people's joy with children if anything. You were right about the subreddit
edit: after letting this comment simmer for a year and replies still come in all the time I have concluded that both sides of the coin in this discussion are equally as pretentious
i think having children is inherently selfish...would i do it? probably but that makes me selfish too and that's ok
so i think u can understand why people kinda shit on people not realizing that what they're doing is at the end of the day selfish
@@amrsherif3409 Having children is inherently unselfish, you are sacraficing time, food, and money, for something that you get nothing material back.
@@thegrandnil764 you have a child for your own pleasure its not like you have a child for his own sake no its for yours and you get at least 10 years of unconditional love and they take care of you when you get old and for all these pros you birth a slave for capitalism who'll work all his life and statistically he will get depressed in one phase of his life if not more oh and dont let me talk about what happens if your poor he'll live a miserable miserable life
the middle ground is you can say its morally grey you cant say its unselfish
you know whats the definition of unselfishness? Adoption.
@@amrsherif3409 They'll be depressed if they have you as their parental figure that's for sure, go outside, talk with people.
@@ColoringAHouse that's common sense tho im not at a place in my life where i should have a child something most people dont take into consideration
I enjoy the fact that Spongebob has become the embodiment of optimism.
commanda dater
and squid is nihilism
Vandilism
and he has NO KIDS
@@mynamejeff2006 OK just asking but how old is spongebob? He acts like a kid but he has a job and a house like an adult.
Y’all remember when Solar Sands did stuff like, “terrible Cuphead OCs”
Ikr? I just remember watching him a couple of years ago talking about bad art and furries and here I am now questioning everything about life after watching his videos
@@natlynxjrgensen3452 i think is legit :V
Yeah lmao!
i want him to make more browsing deviantart :((
I prefer this turn, it feels less cruel and overbearing to discuss these things
I once joined a child free group. All they did was shame children and "breeders" who were lost and if you came out in their defense they called you a closet breeder or spy. 🙄 The group as a whole is toxic but the individuals I've met personally who are child free or anti natialist are awesome and respect all life. 😊
i'll probably never get children myself but that just sounds like a group of extremely sad people
There's a difference between antinatalists and child free. I dream of adopting once I have my resources and I view most of AN ideas as logic. Children are awesome!
Yeah seeing the clips here of cringe r/antinatalism post is disappointing although from personal experience shouldn’t be surprising anymore
This kind of philosophy has finer levels of critical nuances that’s been elaborated on this video, that your an person is less likely to think about. Unfortunately while the notion itself bears great moral & ethical questions into the forefront, it’s also quite counter cultural & perhaps biologically “unnatural”. Hence there are less spaces for greater discussion & exploration of these questions & notions, and the few that does exist becomes this circle of commiseration & gripe, perhaps because of how few these circles exist in comparison to the majority (hence how predominant the majority is)
I see something similar with atheist/agnostic groups going beyond more valid/sound intellectual & ethical criticism and going lower into spite & intolerance, as it may be an act of externalizing their personal gripe/misfortunes into situations of pseudo projection. This was especially the case back when those ideas & secularism was less popular, or in my personal case, where it still actually is quite controversial there were a lot of instances of violence & harm caused by having these subversive beliefs. Though somewhat fortunately, with time, the people I knew in this circle starts to learn & grow out of that reactive & spiteful kind of thinking
People, once they made up their mind, unfortunately often thinks that their conclusion is the correct one without room for tolerating differences, especially when that difference is a lot more shades apart than what they believe & when those other beliefs have mounting social support and hence pressure against their own belief
I think these factors (limited counterculture space, relatively recent school of thought, & stark contrast with majority) contributes to the “extremization” of these spaces. But it might also be that the people drawn into this line of thinking & social spaces have a lot of mental & personal baggage that contributed to the appeal of this line of thinking, and inadvertently mixes up the two (their personal misgivings vs the ethical & moral argument). Which on the one hand is understandable because I went through a similar process, but it might also be a greater sign that these people (myself included) and society in general are suffering from a significant mental health & wellbeing issue regardless of whether or not we believe in anti-natalism
Look up James Scotmore
groups are cringe
Forgot how old this video is, but it's still so well done! I adore the unapologetic commitment to reasoning out the whole issue in plain terms. "We're talking about this, actually discussing it and those who are scoffing already are about to get really uncomfortable by the amount of sound logic I'll be using."
The logic, at least as presented in the video, isn't really that sound.
Anti-natalism tries to pick apart the level of philosophical foundation that it itself wants to rely upon. For example: inflicting suffering is bad - why? Violating consent is bad - why? Defying one's survival instinct is bad - why? Giving birth is a morally wrong - why? Maybe David Benatar digs into that in his book more thoroughly, but this video left me unimpressed.
I was impressed.
this video has stuck with me precisely because of how strange the logic is. if you can expect a life to be 60% pleasure, 40% pain, it is a net good. but this antinatalism puts the world entirely into the perspective of how much harm procreating is doing. the absence of pleasure may be neutral, and the absence of pain may be positive, but nonetheless a lot of pleasure and a little pain is better than neutral. This is, naturally, disregarded. It's a theoretically utilitarian philosophy
Antinatalism, then, only *actually* makes logical sense if one assumes any new life is going to be more negative than positive, and that the potential near-eternal future of humanity will yield, on average, lives that are more negative than positive. And that *is* just pessimism. Solar sands suggests that a future where all the positive experiences of humanity outweigh past negative ones to be incredibly optimistic, but it just has to be better on average. A lot of lives are there already.
Unless, of course, you go with all the minor pains and discomforts leading every life to be way worse than we think. I also disagree with this. I think pleasure and pain are utterly subjective experiences, and to disregard subjectivity, to add up every tiny pain and say "see that's a lot!" is foolish. They do not add up to more than any pleasure could provide; since these things are subjective, by comparison to a minor soreness for a few minutes the joy of a beautiful painting is not just a few times larger, it is magnitudes larger.
Also, he seems to imply anti-natalism dodges the problem of tons of bad lives being better than a good few positive ones because of total good, but it doesn't dodge it at all! It just does the same thing but for pain! A literal utopia where everyones needs and wants are met for billions is a worse situation, in the view of this philosophy, than one depressed guy. Because one depressed guy is way less suffering than all the mild discomforts of billions!
Solar sands frames this as like a philosophical truth, a sneaky but rational idea hidden behind practical impossibility. It just... isn't rational. It's pessimistic.
@@roadent217 My channel contains a bit more elaboration
@tegxi "I think pain and pleasure are _utterly_ subjective experiences" hence (probably) the crumbly crux of your conclusion. Some of my videos hit on this, such as my "TJ Kirk, Inmendham, Nihilism," my "Hiatus Update II," and most recent "Why Antinatalism (2024)" videos but also some others, and I'll be doing more content on the matter moving forward because it's false but nonetheless a point of confusion time and time again over the years I've listened to, read and argued with (what I perhaps pejoratively, but I would argue, aptly, refer to as) "denialist nihilists" - or 'subjectivists,' 'existentialists,' absurdists,' whatever someone would self-describe as (or not) - the (il)logic of that statement functionally entails value nihilism.
If you like, I can provide a dedicated video response to this comment of yours but again, I have addressed its basic claim a number of times, as can be verified via videos I've uploaded (obviously not going to expect you to scour comments sections of videos on other channels, wherein the vast bulk of my historical argumentation actually resides re: nihilism, subjectivity vs objectivity concerning qualia, and so on)
Sentio-centric AN, properly described, is just brutally realistic (despite many ANs as overtly or _overly_ pessimistic), and certainly rational. My channel covers more elaboration on that and a more complete model...an on-going effort though because the psychological friction to anything in the ballpark or even 'solar' system of these type ideas, is unsurprisingly, tremendous
"The luxuries of a modern life." Shows some weird hotdogs.
I suppose hot dogs don't exist in war torn countries
@@noobnoob8922 I mean probably not that many
@@brad6220 but at least a few, like 12, would probably exist in war torn countries.
I live in a third world and I haven't had a hot dog since the 90's.
@@Diwasho There's more than one world?
People here wondering how we went from deviant art to this when it absolutely makes perfect sense to me. Have you even been to deviant art.
Yes and i aint going back there.
Is the implication here that browsing Deviantart makes you want humanity to die out?
I've been there and still go back from time to time, I tend to just wish we'd be hit by a meteor shower that can wipe us out.
@@Irisverse Yes
All of this just now does makes sense in this century. We are slowly dying out now . I wish something will kill me when everyone dear to me is gone.
I have always imagined that in hundreds of years from now people in the future will wonder how bad it must have sucked to waste a third of your life laying in bed unconscious.
Or maybe in the future they'll wonder how did we manage to possibly bare the suffering of being awake during 2/3rds of our life, and they'll make something something like a Matrix where people can choose to go to sleep into and live a happy dream life forever until death.
How about spending nearly a third of your waking life working? Doing something you have no interest or stakes in, for people you don't care about you, just to buy things that you either need to survive or are fooled by those same people that don't care about you into wanting?
@@AveryTarehopefully capitalism ends in the future… and in my lifetime 😓
sleeping is essential biology and i find myself irritated by people who factor it out as meaningless time wasted. your brain is a vastly complicated computer and bioregulator with very gentle self repairing procedures. Also. Sleeping rocks and dreams are an essential part of learning. I mean, maybe people in the future invent a way to forego sleep, and good for them, but you or I are in no position to spit on such an essential and beautiful mechanism which keeps the program running
@@safir2241 The importance of sleep is not lost on me, however if I wish that I was able to obtain all the benefits of sleep in just 2hrs rather than 8hrs. Regardless of what future technology could provide, I believe being awake 24/7 wouldn’t be desirable as all the days blend together in a weird loop. Sleep probably will always be part of the human experience; however, life is painfully short and there’s so much out there to explore and achieve. Regardless of the unique and whimsical nature of dreams, I’d rather spend that time with my actual kids & wife.
This is an incredible video essay. You provide an amazing, unbiased outlook, something which is rare for videos on this topic. New sub!
Solar Sands 2017: "haha look at this wild inflation fetish art"
Solar Sands 2021: "what if we just like, let humanity die out"
I mean... after seeing that stuff who wouldn't want humanity to die out
@@hibiscus_utube The weird people who look at that stuff.
the duality of mankind
i see a direct cause and effect lol
It's not what I signed up for and has become worse than the hilarious fetish art ever was.
Just judging by the intro you think about this a lot.....
._____.
Why are u everywhere?
Don’t
Zeke Yeager
Yeah I have been thinking about it for a while
So glad I found this channel. I love the way that you talk about these types of topics in a very logical way, but also makes it pretty easy to follow and makes me think.
I’ve always thought about this idea but couldn’t talk about because, you know people would be concerned while i’m just thinking about it on a purely philosophical level, so I’m really glad you make this video! Got a lot of weight off my shoulders haha
Look up James Scotmore
This is where you end up by just looking at art on deviant art.
Lol
*voring*
Dont do Deviantart kids!
lmao
deviantart is dangerous
t. Zeke Yeager
And Eren Yeager
@@hoovymain9417 lol catch up w the manga
Here take this
W
i was waiting for this comment
glad im not the only one that thought of him
Quantify misery and potentiel misery is a pretty tone death way to justify non existance
Deaf*
"I never had children, I never transmitted to any creature the legacy of our misery." (Machado de Assis)
This video made me realize I'm a bit on an antinatalist. I dont think we should let humanity die out, but I do think we should take childbirth with a lot more seriousness than we do. I also find it unethical (and frankly narcissistic) to bring more children into the world when there are already so many rotting in orphanages. Way more people should be willing to adopt. I will die on this hill.
I fully agree with you
Look up James Scotmore
Orphages wenr away a while ago, replaced with foster home which are arguably worst
Look up Martin Butler
Very true!
I like how solar sands went from reviewing terrible art from deviantart to talks about existentialism
the natural progression
I mean........
it s much better
Yes
Deviantart does that to a person.
"Death solves all problems; no man, no problem"
- Ryan from Ryan's Toy Review
I really struggle to see how so many have this implicit idea that they're somehow going to be present to enjoy this problem-free state of non-being. There's a big difference between having something that's perfect and not having anything at all.
@@davidschaftenaar6530 I think the idea is that existence is suffering. if you don't exist, you don't suffer.
Why are we ignoring the “Ryan from Ryan’s Toy Review”
Ryan from Ryan's toy review from supermega?
Wasn't it Stalin who said this?
The artistic choice to use parts of the Half Life 2 soundtrack in this was great, Solar. (For those who haven’t played, you should, and one of the main underlying themes of the plot is the forced sterility of the human race by an invading alien race)
Reminder, 100 sterilization credits grants non mechanical reproduction simulation.
@@thecoolcario9048 Very strong conclusion.
Honestly not everyone should be parents. But people who become one are mostly the ones who don't believe this sentiment
Yup
Honestly, it's fair that he'd start discussing death after all of that DeviantArt stuff he went through.
Deviantart does some wacky shit to a man
Lmao 💀
@@lemonpie_vanilla I've been seeing that guy in your profile picture everywhere where is he from? Is he from a manga or anime? Or is he just a character the internet made up
@@heroicdesire7971 you are amazing. I hope tonight when you go to bed both sides of your pillows are cold.
God!! 😂 I made a similar comment!! 🤣😂😂 Deviant Art's aside effects.
“The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
-Douglas Adams
This comment has been approved by the people of Afganistan!
Best opening lines of a book in history. Douglas Adams was one of the best writers of all time.
@@RandomGuy-bi4nx Man's a legend in tens of different languages
Oh no, not again! :)
Absolutely love THGTTU
The simple fact remains that you cannot guarantee anyone will not have a life full of tragedy. You cannot rule out that you or those close to you will not be debilitated by some accident, some disease. You cannot guarantee that anyone you know will have a quick, peaceful exit from this life. No one is better off having contracted a horrible disease that leaves them crippled, or getting their spine snapped in an automobile accident. All you can do is pretend and hope that it won't happen to you and those you love, but certainly anyone who has experienced a tragedy didn't think it could happen to them either.
Look up James Scotmore
That's true of practically everything. I can only hope when I give a homeless person a sandwich that he will not choke to death on it. It may happen and it likely has happened. We can't say all such gambling is unethical unless we deem virtually everything unethical.
Look up Martin Butler
@@darkengine5931 Yes. It's true of literally everything in fact. So when you make assumptions of the positive, you cannot guarantee them, so making decisions on a positive value judgement is not any more valid than making them on a negative value judgement. Except the negative value judgement asserts that suffering is bad, we do not like to suffer, and life condemns one to suffer eventually. The positive cannot be guaranteed with any certainty. The negative almost certainly can. Even if you break the odds and don't suffer, somebody else will.
@@cabellocorto5586 I'm not sure I agree with the notion of suffering being bad in such a simplistic way. From my perspective, suffering implies the presence of something very good and dear and valuable to the person. As an example, heartbreaks are certainly not pleasant; they can be quite devastating. And they're also guaranteed to happen for any couple who falls in love and doesn't gradually fall out of love. Even then, one is going to typically die before the other, guaranteeing that the other gets a broken heart. Yet the reason they suffer so much is because they treasured their love so much. Suffering, as I see it, is a symptom of precious things not lasting forever: hearts break, bodies wear and tear, beauty fades, lives end.
The trouble with attempting to discredit our perception of our own quality of life is that the only thing that truly matters is our perception. What does it matter how much suffering goes unperceived? what’s the between unperceived suffering and suffering that was never experienced?
Edit: I apologize for commenting before finishing the video lol. I now see that he briefly mentioned this argument later on
Speaking about eternal damnation and suffering
Shows image of mild back-pain
ah yes, the π of the pain scale
low but never-ending
Is he wrong tho? NO. HE IS NOT
I speak as someone with back-pain
It is
Eternal damnation and suffering.
This is odd for my as a masochist, there are certain things like stress which are never enjoyable, but certain types of pain can be calming, i feel a lot of joy we gain comes from over coming struggles we face in life.
You’re clearly under 35.
@@ClayDress ... my back pain started when I was 16 so maybe
Dont go by age? Backs just fucking suck.
There’d be one guy who just couldn’t stop pounding it out.
This is one of those top tier jokes that nobody can top and so everyone just likes it silently instead.
This was addressed in the video.
Sex is not considered evil in this ideology. Not using contraceptives is.
@@EspeonMistress00 Oh I know, just a yolk.
That guy is on a mission.
there's no greater salvation then never being born in this world - erren yeager
Most people correctly identify that life sucks, the periods of happiness are brief and fleeting. And then proceed to play god and create life in their own image, enforce their ideas on the said life and perpetuate misery for everyone. I dont think the solution to this is good parenting that most people in here are saying, it would be analogous to first putting a person on fire and then extinguishing it and then taking care of the said person. It would be better to not inflict life on someone in the first place.
"Why are we still here, just to suffer?"
"every night i can feel my arms my leg even my finger"
"the only thing good here is food music and porno"
- Fried rice Neat chi.
@@sorrychangedmyusername3594 "Fried Rice Neat Chi" lmao
_Voluntary Extinction_ could be the title for a kick-ass Death Metal song
good name for a band
I'm not suicidal, it's just _voluntary extinction_ 😎
@@monbub the average virgin suicidal fan vs the average _voluntary extinction_ enjoyer
there's a few metal songs called "voluntary extinction" and "voluntary human extinction" if you search it. some of the bands names are Ringworm, C.H.E.W., and Removalist. the songs are pretty kickin I just listened to them
Self Immolate by King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. Thrashy goodness.
The whole album is fantastic.
why even accept the premise that prensence of pain and suffer means life isn't worth living?
Would you want to live a life again where you get raped and sold off to human trafficking and have your genitals puffed up and distorted because of how much you got fucked and abused?
Yeah no thanks.
That’s life.
"How good do you think your life is?"
Awful; I sometimes find myself envying the lifestyle of a pinecone.
Look up James Scotmore
"If it was up to me, I would have chosen to be never been born, but, I do not wish to die, because I was born into this world!" - Willy Tybur
Ah yes a man of Quality
But I wouldn’t mind being born again if it meant I could play catch with you once more
If I over think it too much I end up feeling the same way. Just don't over think it and you will be fine.
@@Tethloach1 that could work with people who arent depressed i guess but when you wake up and the first thing you feel is dread then no it wont work
@@peap1610 I did go through deep dark depression, I made some recovery. depression is complex and anything might help a bit, but it comes down to if the person has any internal strength left. I still had some strength left to survive the so called dread, my will power was great, because I still held on to some hope.
The overthinking wasn't helping at all in fact it was making things worse or harder because, life is absurd and trying to reconcile that was hopeless drowning in depression, and anxiety. If the person can be helped and they have any strength left than anything may help.
Alright Zeke Jaeger, didn’t think you’d use RUclips to promote your Eldian extinction plan but pop off I guess
Lol. He probably paid this guy to make the video.
I'm caught up, but there could be others that aren't. Warn for spoilers.
I've been looking for this comment
I literally said this out loud and sought this comment out thank you lmaoooo
didn't think you would be here
What if I love pain? This mans argument completely falls apart.
Masochists and Sadists for the win.
Look up Martin Butler
lol very true. However there is still the argument as to life having no intrinsic value & everything is in vain
lol very true. However there is still the argument as to life having no intrinsic value & everything is in vain
lol very true. However there is still the argument as to life having no intrinsic value & everything is in vain
When I first watched this I found it weird and strange to want to go extinct but like, now it kinda makes sense.
Look up James Scotmore
"Our lives may be considerably more bad than we believe"
Cue the unskippable targeted ad
Download youtube vanced on your phone and an adblock on your computer ;)
bullshit, it's all in your head, if you want it to be bad, it will be bad
@@ars85202 If only it existed on iOS
@@dexei3150 F
I WAS LITERALLY READING YOUR COMMENT AND THE AD CAME UP 😂
No force in creation can kill me. Not until Solar Sands makes a Tumblr Video.
I've come to love the site after Tumblr readings popped up in my recommendations.
Exactly.
Meh more like Twitter. Tumblr has gotten a bit more chill now since the great raid. Almost all the oppression screamers, man haters, and weirdos moved to Twitter
I think tumblr is the best social media platform
@@t.n.21 same, mosty because no one is really popular since you can't see their account following and it's just a horrible site to argue with someone online. I swear I realized someone @ed me 4 months later
I relate so hard to this line of thinking I needed to know it was a thing. People need to stop making more people we can't even take care of the ones already here
The problem isn't that we have too many people, it's that too many people live in large clumps like cities. Have you seen Wyoming? You can drive in that state for HOURS without seeing another human being. Overpopulation is not a thing and don't let the scum Globalists make you think that it is.
Look up James Scotmore
@@pirupami9746 no one cares
@@MISO0928 about you, that is.
@@pirupami9746 middle school response
Nostalgia can also be miserable to experience.
Miserable Taco Bell bumpd
what when
"There is no greater misery than to look back upon times of happiness in times of misery" -Dante Alligeri, Inferno.
If you are a masochist then existence is a win win.
Ayee my homie
Just don’t be a sadist
damn right,
anyone who has enjoyed a challenging game like darksouls would know how awesome it is to survive in a grim environment. so its a win win
@@NeostormXLMAX Dark Souls Homies Unite
Pain and suffering is not the same thing
i knew i would find some Zeke mentions in the comments lol
Same here bro
www.roblox.com/games/6646658252/McDonalds-Obby-200-Super-Fun
My man, when are you gonna start posting again?
@@gregmill5064 bro what
@@gregmill5064this isn't 2016 lol
It’s quite fascinating to me that the realization that suffering = life has brought me to a completely opposite philosophical conclusion. Whenever I experience suffering, but I can still function and live, those are the moments where I feel the most alive, in a good way. I don’t like it, of course, but the condition that life = suffering gives me 100% certainty that I, as one individual, exist here for a small point in time. It’s statistically amazing to me that I have a chance to exist in this weird thing we call life.
Edit: “a penatalist would say that makes me astronomically unlucky.” I burst into laughter at that realization because I literally can’t dispute that. It’s all a matter of perception, and I guess I’m more of a glass half full kinda guy when it comes to this topic.
I wonder if that view would apply to Japan
Cool comment. I can kind of understand what you're saying. Going for a long hike, with various issues on the way, then arriving at camp and setting up, and sitting around the fire with food, drink, and company, under the infinity of stars, is immensely satisfying, even though it required some suffering and even pain to get there. But you have to admit that there's something mildly masochistic about getting pleasure from suffering, even if it is in our DNA.
Seems to me that there's something purely biological about the pleasure we get from our survival of/with suffering. We lifeforms have been doing it for billions of years. And I wonder if we will ever be able to escape that loop. The Buddhists have certainly been trying for a while.
As living being, it is counter productive to hate life. However life has evolved to consume other life among other environmental struggles. We came from that lineage, and grow increasingly aware, it becomes a burden to bear. Otherwise life itself is as neutral as being a rock worn out by erosion. In this sense the Buddhist, Taoist or Stoic achieved a philosophical neutral stand with life. Any pleasure or suffering is only temporarily.
People that demonize having children seem to suffer a lot more than normal people and they can’t square out the negatives.
“Some numbnuts starting a nuclear war” that phrase made my day
After the end of the world, you are the only one left.
You are on a beach, looking out to the sky, you can feel the heat of the sun and the beach floor beneath you.
I guess you're experiencing some *existential solar sands*
god damn it, why'd I laugh
Why
*m o n o k u m a*
After the end of the world, you are one of only two people left.
You are on a beach, looking out to space, you can feel the heat of the LCL sea and the sand beneath you.
I guess you're experiencing some Human Instrumentality.
After watching 10 seconds of the vid, you scroll down into the comments, just to see this
I guess you could say, these jokes probably disappoint our families
Later in the future: A.I. suing creator for bringing it existencial pain for being tasked for coming up with stupid Light Novel names.
The A.I. is right though-
“I was brought into a world as a giant bird who had cheat SSS-class skills but everyone keeps on betraying me”
“I’m in love with the hero but I’m the evil demon lord who’s suppose to take over the world”
“Please end me, I’m tired of having to come up with these stupid names and I can’t kill myself. Why have you brought me into this world”
I watched that video.
I wouldn't be surprised if something like this actually happened.
trash bot-
Appreciate you covering this in a fair and interesting way, thank you 💕
"our lives may be considerably more bad than we believe" and the next second is an advertisement. Nice positioning!
Solar Sands 2016: "Haha let's browse DeviantArt and see what weird stuff we find"
Solar Sands 2021:
Its now "I'm 14 and this is deep"
@@trolledfrog6789 was, you mean
Coincidence? I think not!
This channel is the definition of character development
yea same he when from Bad cringey art reviews to this
Its like a sauting sumn yknow what i mean
I subscribed to him when he reviewed Deviantart fetish cringe
@@mur1525 same, that was quite a time
same with lemmino, went from making top 10 rage comics videos to full-blown documentaries
This video just gave me a new perspective on Darling and the Franxx. That entire show illustrated that humans will always procreate even if there's a law put in place to "prevent" them from doing so.
Have you heard of Just Stop Oil?
in* the
China's one child policy was...something.
I do agree in a way, I thin if I ever wanted to have a kid of my own I would only have one, but I’d probably prefer adopting a child because I think it’s more important to give the people already existing as good of a chance at life as they can get. I think quality of life is more important than quantity
Yeah me too if I'm in a position of where money is not a problem anymore i would like to adopt 1 or 2 having no parent is hard for a child and i have seen adopted children love whole heartedly by the by their adopted families and i would love to give that to children that are less fortunate than me who has parents to love me
"our lives may be considerably more bad than we believe"
cuts to unskippable ad
@Fungo Slungo things can be wrong with your life without you knowing it.
@Fungo Slungo you could have liver cancer and not know it yet
@Fungo Slungo you don't have to be upset by something for it to make your life worse
@Fungo Slungo because you're slowly dying? There's more quality of life than perception
@Fungo Slungo my exact thinking my dude, everything is relative as long as an AI thinks it’s alive it is. As long as a human thinks it’s happy it is. I mean our brain is the measurement regardless of environment.
the antinatalism subreddit is probably like that because it's reddit, its just the nature of it
You can make a subreddit about 'teaching a man to fish' and a majority of it will be people getting angry that someone decided to 'give the man a fish' instead
Seeing that subreddit left me with a bitter taste
Pretty much.
@@badbad6763 its like comparing diarrhea and solid shit.
Bunch of incels trying to look cool
@Hunter Smith for sure
I really love this line of thought, i wouldn't follow this practically but it really helps u question the basic ideas u have of life
I have another counterargument - suffering itself does not have to be bad. It can be part of a road to something better (for example - using Oracle programs is a part of the road to money). Or it can be a motivation to improve something and later lead to not only pleasure, but also satisfaction from achieving something.
While you may believe that, whose to say your theoretical child would say the same. A lot of parents have that mindset and bring people into this world thinking they will feel the same satisfaction they do. To me every birth is bringing another player into the rat race and if that rat doesn't want to participate it is deprived of everything. Kids end up getting punished, abused, kicked out of their homes, and for what? Even kids with "good" lives aren't immune to this. I have a "good" life with a nice house and good parents and a nice school. Why is it suddenly my fault that I'm not happy?
This is a romantic veiw of it, look into the real depths of human suffering, and tell me those people, and children who died, "grew" from the experience, they cannot grow because they are dead, in one particular case that actually happened, a child eaten alive by dogs, that were sent on him by an angry landowner in tzarist Russia, that aside, think about war, the holocaust, the holodomor, a majority of the world's population that don't have the luxury to live in the usa or Europe, etc
I recommend reading the brothers karamazov, or atleast reading the chapter: rebellion.
Its funny cause even in the bible.
The scriptures do encourage people to adopt and that its a blessing if you do take care of others. This topic really is interesting!
Dude I remember thinking of some edge-case scenarios as a kid, and they tend to turn out to be legit philosophy topics. Like this one or Solipsism. It's trippy to see these ideas being seriously discussed lol
@@user-rf4vc7mt4d you are human bro, we think a lot.
@@Bored-su5op i litterally cannot read your comment in mobile
same book that encourages to dash your infants to the rocks
@@impmadness That was a poem coming from a place of grief and rage against conquerers (the Babylonians) that subjugated the poet's people and, yes, murdered their babies. One thing that's important to understand about the Bible is that it captures the whole range of the human experience and emotion. That verse is the poet essentially wishing justice upon the oppressors of his people in the rawest possible terms ("may they suffer the same atrocities they inflicted on us"). Psalm 137 is a heartwrenching piece from an enslaved people who witnessed their home razed to the ground and people massacred. The Book of Psalms is filled with similar pieces, some even seeming blasphemous, because as a whole it captures all human emotion with unflinching honesty. The Bible doesn't patronize; there's not tidy little footnotes saying "he's just really sad - don't go kill children". You have to interpret it in light of history, culture, literary form (in this case, a poem), author, and setting.
Is only humans that think of this. Other animals just breed instinctively. It is the complexity of our own minds which is our downfall and yet the reason we can think to begin with
I think it's more the ego. Our minds are complex and designed to comfort us, we're designed to get set in our ways and find some pride in our beliefs.
Humans can pick a topic as simple as existing and try to find some way to make sense of both living and dying, crafting arguments and beliefs for or against the natural lifespan just to feel some sense of satisfaction or clarity.
Other animal are capability of conscious thinking so I’m not sure if just that Is enough to make humanity unique. We don’t even truly know what makes humans...human.
@@codenamesleepy5367 What even is human, like for real! who decided to call us that, who decided to give us those words D:?
Animals don't have a real concept of death, let alone nonexistence. They don't know that sex leads to procreation either. Saying that anti-natalism is unnatural ignores that animals have no ability to consider, let alone enact, anti-natalist philosophy.
It's only a certain race that thinks like this. And they will be replaced.
Prof. Benatar *has* once stated that he does not have children.
was not expecting the poetic use of rifts era opn in the middle of this video. hell yeah. also this is really really good
This guy went from browsing DevientArt to rant horrible fetishes to questioning if life and continuing it is a positive
Glory to Arstotzka
@@pufflepoint it is once you see the vids in between, he really made some art when he made videos like "can you spot one object in this photo" those vids are incredible and i think after watching them it gives you more off a reason to live given how interesting everything is in this life
Character development
is there a point to this, everyone seems to make this useless observation and comment it on the video
@@awuuwa Probably something to do with DeviantArt. It does have some questionable stuff.
"Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay to mold me man? Did I solicit thee from darkness to promote me?"
- Adam, Paradise Lost
I want to appreciate the few goods I have, even if I am in pain at the moment, isn’t this little ache worth life’s joys?
We adapt and overcome pain, we should embrace and let ourselves experience joy.
I don’t think I can be responsible enough to be a parent, but I want to still exist, if I had been able to consent to it I might have actually agreed, thinking maybe the presence of this nuanced palate of emotions than to not feel anything.
I think a very big part of it is the community one lives in.
Without being born there is no risk (of suffering),
But if there is risk, there is reward along side it.
And there is the possibility of greatly damaging your offspring.
There is no risk of suffering though; it is an absolute guarantee. There is exceptionally little, if any, possibility of reward though. The possibility for a single drop of water in eternal fires of hell, doesn't make hell worth it. @@PerpetualAgonizingTorment
@@PerpetualAgonizingTormentreward. maybe for you
You've been getting pretty philosophical lately and I keep enjoying it, keep it up
I started seeing him when he has a devianart Chanel, things change
@@El-s Yeah those are my favorites
Eat your cereal
Yeah it’s really entertaining
@@ezraboren2069 I always do
Glad my parents had me, so i can watch solar sands
Make this the pinned comment pls
one thing that's interesting to think about: if you were not born, you would literally never exist, ever. you are the result of your parents, and they created an entirely new being who thinks for themselves and views the world from their own perspective, incapable of imagining what's going on inside anyone else's world. even if time went on forever, you would never be born again. it is impossible to create the same human twice, even identical twins have differences, and are very certainly different people. the chance of your parents having found each other and having you are infinitely impossible, but also infinitely certain, at least from your point of view. because if they hadn't found each other then your point of view would never exist. you probably base all of what you experience on your own timescale, your own past experiences, but those experiences would never exist if you did not. every single thing you think is entirely in your head, and would never have been thought of if it weren't for you, at least in the way you thought of it. you are, at the most personal and most basic level, infinitely unique and infinitely rare, not based on physical appearance or attributes, but on your conscience, which nobody else has. understands or ever will have.
That sounds like a advertisement catch phrase.
@@bruhmania7359 I have never thought about that before. Your comment is really fascinating to me. You have a really good point as well !
@@beamshark another way to think about it is how no matter what, you only know about someone what they choose to show, just like everyone only knows about you what you choose to show, and no matter what it stays that way because people are so individual, and so in control of themselves. think of how complex you are, all the things you know and think about and feel, and how 7,000,000,000 people are just like that, but also entirely different all around the world, and that you and nobody you know will ever even know most of them exist.
I think we should stop procreating and try to be more immortal(with existing people),and lead a life c(full of pleasure).Besides duties are imaginary concepts created by humans to cover our primal drives
Might be an Impossible scenario,but we can try
Personally, I think spreading anti-natalism could produce some good effects. Right now, there are children up for adoption or orphans who need caretakers. The more intelligent people we get that ask these questions when they consider having children, the more likely we are to solve this problem. If the people who would have children anyway still have children, we might not achieve voluntary extinction, but there would be more people who do not wish to bring life into existence that would be willing to help care for that new life. That, I believe, should be the ultimate goal of our society regarding childbirth - that every child born is cared for to the best of our species' ability. I love kids, but I will never have one - I refuse on principle - but if there is a child suffering and I can help ease that suffering, you can bet I will do my utmost.
I actually started clapping at the line "wishing to die and wishing to have never been born are two very different things" because it's a thought I've had for so long that I could never fully grasp or put into words at the height of my depression... I didn't want to die, I still don't (I'm much better now), I simply wished it didn't have to be a question of life or death at all... I didn't want that responsibility. The world was all too big for me, and I felt like I could never process fast enough... At one point I begged my mom to put me in some kind of mental hospital where I could "get away from the world and fix myself first" because I seriously felt the world was spinning too fast, and I wanted anything but to get off it and be ignorant.
I don’t know what else to say other than thanks. This right hear are the words I need. It’s strange the way numbness is nicer than pleasure or pain, to sit in it is something I have always chased. People always act as if not constantly pursuing dopamine is strange. They talk about drug addicts “chasing the dragon” yet whenever some doesn’t it’s seen as something to fix. Don’t get me wrong I like to be happy, but I never seem to be able to fondly remember feeling of joy like I can remember feeling of absolute nothing (the feeling of being light)
Ok, sorry for all that. Have a nice day.
@@bstuart8186 No need to apologize! I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this; it's a topic that can mean so many different things to the individual which I find interesting.
I'm glad you're feeling better😊
Did you find that 'mental hospital'?
oh my god thank you so much for saying this i’ve been struggling for this feeling since forever and it’s so hard for me to say i’m depressed because i don’t have a will to die i just wish i didn’t have to be a person and do things this was just really validating to hear bc you seriously just wrote out my thoughts
Not gonna lie, when I woke up today this was definitely not the discussion I thought I'd be listening to.
Yeah, but although I agree with the fundamental idea that not just humans but ALL sentient beings is better of not being born in the FIRST PLACE. Do not exist in the first place = Literally no problems at all, but big bang happened and we now have all this shits to deal with.
@@boysteacher3818 Only the Last Man would accept such an idea. The Übermensch is not so weak, and neither are the men and women of the past. I’m not anywhere near as strong as they are, but I strive to be like them. Pessimistic nihilism is one of the main drivers of the current violence in society. Negative utilitarianism taken to such an extreme is good for no one.
@@boysteacher3818 genuine question: why is it easy to say that it was the big bang, and not God?
@@DiamondsRexpensive Because it is less far out. Of course, that doesn't rule out god's existence. But it is more plausible to believe that we were created out of chemicals from space.
i don't want to die, or be forgotten. i know no one asked to be born, but i don't want to lose it so soon.
You will be forgotten when you die only your legacy your name will be alive if you're lucky
Being remembered won't matter though. You just think it'll matter now. Being famous means nothing when you're dead.
Great video with great conclusion
Being raised by a single mother, I just want to make sure I don’t birth any person that I and my spouse are not ready to raise.
Based
Bae
@meow purr Can't take away what doesn't exist.
@meow purr There's always the potential for things to go wrong or a relationship to go sour, but some things are beyond one's foresight and control. While that specific risk could be mitigated by being vigilant to red flags and a good relationship partner, it's a risk you kind of have to take if you want to start a family. If you govern your life on possibility and not probability, you won't get much done.
Wasn't even Wanted by Father.
Only got married and had be because his Mom wouldn't stop bugging him.
i love how solar sands always considers bothh sides of stories in videos like this without being rude and doing it with respect
Yeah, same, I wish more people could try to do this
Yeah although I think he should make a second part focusing on the other side as well
with respect, yes, but looking at both sides? nah, he didnt
@@richardhobbs7360 yeah he didn't consider the other side as . much
@@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043 yeah, it was definitely a push for the side he agrees with more OR had spent so long learning about antinatalism forgot to do as much on anti-antinatalism
Very interesting! And totally reminiscent of my old philosophy lectures..... in conclusion, there is no conclusion but to keep thinking forever
Look up Martin Butler
your videos are liminal spaces bro, I love it
7:12 "how good do you think your life is"
I am supreme existence i just ate half a baguette of garlic bread all pain previously gained and all pain to come will never match the ecstasy and joy i felt in this moment.
"how good do you think your life is"
well generally its bearable but at the moment not too good. I had a nightmare about the human centipede so I didn't get much sleep. I also dropped my yogurt (strawberry and banana) this morning.
LMAO
Seize the means of garlic bread production, we can end all pain
Life may be full of suffering but we do have garlic bread, so it all evens out in the end
Emperor of Man, is that you?
we went from making fun of fetish art to questioning the morality of procreation.
What deviantart does to a mf
glow up
I much prefer introspective videos like this. I just woke up from strange dream and this is the 1st thing im going to watch this morning
he grew up it seems
I'd prefer this to _looks at smudged writing_
...gore? Oh. Vore.
Uck.
Good to see real controversy still exists.
I think that humans are much more than that, the horrible and kind things we do are actually part of our choices, the beauty in that is about our capacity to choose, to actually be far from a simple nature system that many animals participate, be or not mindful about life and what we can discover from this whole universe. I want our species to be able to search for more and see more because honestly Nature is beautiful and I'm glad we're part of it even we have our flaws and mistakes.
Sometimes I think about it in a religious aspect as well, and I already know how people is getting more and more pessimist about everything and wanting to end it all.
This is just my thought about what this video has brought to me and the comments as well, thank you.
Solar sands back then: this art cringe
Solar sands now: *V* *o* *l* *u* *n* *t* *a* *r* *y* *e* *x* *t* *i* *n* *c* *t* *i* *o* *n*
I'm grateful I had parents that thought about the consequences of having kids.
They had no idea what was going to happen 15 years later but at least they tried.
I feel this, and lucky for you... my mom told me I shoulda have kids and marry because I would end up lonely.
@@vortexsupernovapersonal7801 lmao jfc. has she at least come around?
We must then try to live the best lives we can so that they're right (and I do think that we can live with a net good in the end).
“How will I react if my child finds life to painful and wants to end” defending something my parents should have considered. But they didn’t and now they have me with chronic suicidal depression and thinks I’d suicide a most of the day and has attempted a few times.
And there’s really nothing I can do I try to be happy but nothing really dose so when I get a bit of happiness I keep chasing it but am usually stopped money, lack of friends, self confidence sometimes and anxiety and get really depressed and want to kill my self. Then when I try just to be content with what I have I feel unfulfilled and want to die after a wile. And if I just stew an misery I’ll go for a little longer but eventually want to kill myself
Many valid points here, especially the point about how many other lives we eat to support our own .
Thank you for posting this. It was beneficial for me to learn about.
I have felt like I wish I wasn't born and vibe with a little of both sides.
I'm a dad now and have two children.
I see them as possibilities, as I was a success in my parents' eyes after a lot of fumbling, rebellion, and plenty of nonsense.
And you assumed your children will feel the same way??
The creepiest about this is there will be one last person on earth. The only one alive.
It's not fair... There was finally time...
@@IaeyanElyuex my glasses!
Well, depending on how the end of humanity comes around, the last human might die just a microsecond after the past few thousand
@@SenhorAlien truth
As it seems its only the two of us alone in this world m'lady
If I was never brought into this world, I never would have seen Shrek 2, think about that.
Halo 2
@Alvi Syahri 👊
Haha I love you
fuk shrek 2 , i just want to dissapear
But I love Shrek 2
:(
7:56 thanks man, this reminded me to get a school project done that I have been procrastinating for around a week & a half now that's due in a weeks time.
I am an anti-natalist. I even did my part already by getting a vasectomy.
I’m so proud of you !!
Glad you won’t be in the gene pool.
I'm not at a stage in life where I have to think about having offspring, but it baffles me how adoption isn't more popular...
To be fair, it's a difficult and lengthy process which is what makes the rates of adoption lower. Having a child biologically doesn't require the thorough vetting process or careful planning as adoption, unfortunately (it very much should, though)
@@hotandslavic Idealistically yes. In practice though its a very dangerous road to go down.
@@hotandslavic as Bill Waterson once said: "there aught to be a qualifying test for being a parent."
@@RockSolitude very true, I fear it would go down a eugenics route 😬
I think a lot of it has to do with arrogance of the parents in thinking they have oh-so-superior genes than the average of the population, or simply narcissism in wanting their children to look like themselves. There was even a movie I watched recently where the main character desperately wanted to have children, but was infertile, but didn't want to adopt because she admitted she was selfish and wanted her child to have her same eyes.
My immediate thought when clicking this video “Zeke Jeager is that you?”
I can totally imagine Zeke showing this video to hobo Eren in Liberio.
I'm happy I'm not the only one who thought that pfft, he'd love this video
I got sent this video from the attack on Titan discord to explain zekes plan
Ikr😂😂😂
Its funny the timing of this vid lol
It's neat how I was recommended this video right after your country humans video. Quite fitting.
Honestly when it comes to non-existence, I’d rather do my best in this short time I have with the opportunity I’ve been given and go back to not existing when I’m dead. No harm no foul
"Pessimists tend to be less desirable mates."
Well, I guess that explains it.
Kinda hard to find women who are interested in thinking about these things, at least that's been my experience.
(Edit: actually just people in general)
@@chaseharrison2064 Gee, I wonder why.
it's a self-fulfilling prophecy!
@@chaseharrison2064 I agree with your edit, hard to find *people* interested in talking about this stuff. E.g. Rust's character from True Detective & the many social norms that are crushed when you tell people there is no meaning to their lives. People get uncomfortable talking about mortality. That bringing children into a world that will try to hurt them (especially when they have no say in the matter), is selfish and cruel. When you have health issues (my mother was anorexic and both my parents are depressive), you shouldn't pro-create. I'm a chick and I've only ever found one random man at a party who was interested in this sort of stuff (I'm an atheist and absurdist and he was agnostic). I shouldn't of been born (I have chronic pain, depression, insomnia, chronic fatigue - all foreseeable due to my parents issues). I feel no contempt for my parents, but It just shouldn't of happened. Life is neither precious nor evil. It just is. Atm, I'd prefer this consciousness to death. That may change and its comforting to know there's a way out.
@@chaseharrison2064 Welp, I'm nigh, bi, and ready to cry.
It sucks that many people still hold adoption as inferior than having biological children. They’re both good options damn it
I don't know if anyone should be listening to the opinions of a cartoon horse.
@@coltonc7832 I don't know if anyone should be listening to the opinions of a faceless internet stranger in general, but here we are talking, aren't we?
Except for biological heritage
The thing that sucks about adoption is that you can't adopt one as easily as having your own biological child
@@karenlinares7541 you want to be easy for any suspicious guy to get a child?
Thankfully I understood the immenseness of what bringing another life in this reality meant from a very young age and should not be taken lightly. Holy fuck, thank god….
Samee. You should also check out some Schopenhauer videos by Einzelgänger. He explains it well.
Schopenhauer called us fellow-sufferers. And supported the idea of how important it was for us to be compassionate to each other.
19:39 a counter to this argument is that maximizing the total quality of life is good and great ONLY for the ALREADY EXISTING people. That is what, I as an antinatalist, agree with you on.
Unfortunately, you missed the point here because, suffering would still exist. In the argument from asymmetry, where existence of nothingness as compared to pleasure and pain, your counter doesnt hold valid.
The suffering still remains.
I think the Original argument he made was better. When he stated that by ceasing to exist, life may begin its cycle all over again leading to more suffering (as the past had objectively more suffering due to lack of technology). This obviously depends on if human life would start on earth again, but if the parameters on earth stay the same I’d argue it would.
I can see this video is going to be full of existential crisis
edit: I have watched it and it is not that much.
As per usual
Not so much, yes is very heavy, but life is struggle and happiness in a weird wholesome and crude way, very gray stuff but one must keep going forward. I mean, you can't go back in time and fix things (pls don't, we are going to have a shit ton of AU's).
Mario
@@purpledinosaur5118 Wario
@@MilanesaConPure Luigi