This Bardock RAGE Has To STOP! Here's Why.
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Seriously. The debate between 90s Bardock and Dragon Ball Super Bardock is starting to get a little silly. Here's why we think that these two are practically the same and why Dragon Ball fans need to relax. It has to stop!
When this latest manga saga started, I had no idea that this would kick things off again in regards to this character. Bardock, post-Broly movie, had seemingly settled down when it came to his overall stance within the community. The impossible had been achieved. The Minus interpretation had become less egregious amongst the fandom and things that were once confusing had become somewhat understandable. Bardock talked his theories through and explained his "gut feeling" that had been previously incredibly vague. Job done...that is until Chapter 77 and Chapter 83 showed up!
So yes, it seems that in the recent installments of the Dragon Ball Super series and manga, the likes of Toriyama and Toyotaro are attempting to make Bardock even a bigger deal in the fandom, than he was before...and...is that really necessary? I think you only need to walk around a convention for a few minutes or peruse RUclips for a few searches to see that Bardock...HAS ALWAYS BEEN POPULAR. While we ourselves have a pretty...lukewarm relationship with the character, he's alright in our eyes; ignoring the impact and the tensions between fans of the "two versions" of Bardock would be a foolish decision. We can't possibly snub this rather intriguing and downright precarious state of affairs that we have got going now. One of our commenters on our videos, Dark Tiger Shark Max, even suggested that we should compare these two versions of Bardock as people are arguing about him over their characterization. Oh boy...it's like sub versus dubs all over again, isn't it? 90s Bardock or Super Bardock? Which is better?
So, let's get right to it, shall we? Let's really break it down and discover which version of Bardock is best and could stand the test of time and the future of the overall series. Now, right off the bat, let's focus on the most obvious differences, shall we? Just to really distinguish the variations between them and confirm to you all that there IS a difference in their overall constructs.
#Dragonballsuper #Dragonball #DragonballZ #Dragonballsupermanga #Bardock #Goku #DBS #DBZ
This Bardock Rage Is Getting Old. Here's Why.
• This Bardock RAGE Has ...
• This Bardock RAGE Has ...
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So the new Dragon Ball heroes opening shows super Saiyan three Raditz…. Should this has been a thing?
I prefer the OG special Bardock to Minus itself BUT I think DBS Broly did a good hybrid of the two and that's why Bardock in the current manga is so, as you say, similar to the original. I think they're deliberately trying to keep him as a hybrid. I just wish we could have seen Bardock go all rampaging on Frieza's forces in an attempt to avenge his squad like the 90's special. Though the brief stand against frieza in the new one seems to imply he had ala his damaged armor.
Your videos are really good to listen to while at work
I think any Bardock rage I had has long since turned into fatigued depression. I think I might have been more receptive to Bardock coming around and being a "better person" or whatever if it had been done differently. I'm not opposed to him steadily changing so much as I'm opposed to the steps taken towards it, if that makes any sense?
Like, I'm realizing that if they hadn't retconned the history of Bardock so hard, then maybe me and many other fans would've been less frustrated. What I mean is, instead of overhauling the original story of the TV special with Minus and DBS, Toriyama and Toyotaro could have originally implemented a way building on top of 1990s Bardock and his crew. Show deeper aspects of their comradery and impacts on one another. I'd actually would have been more interested in seeing someone like Toma having some degree of impact on Bardock in some way over Gine, if I'm honest (might sound like heresy on my part, I suppose). This isn't to say Gine couldn't have been apart of this reality in some form, it would have just been a slight change in approach in how she's introduced and the dynamic of her relationship with Bardock.
Hell, they could've found a way to slightly retcon the special and work with the material they had without going so ham on it and absurdly changing everything. I think I would've appreciated that at the very least instead of flatly being told more or less "No that's all wrong. Now it's this. The foundations of your childhood and budding youth is a lie, so get over it and move on." and getting 20+ years of significant lore thrown out the window.
If there’s one thing that’s consistent it’s that he was a badass who went down fighting even when he didn’t stand a chance
That's pretty much it. Each version of Bardock is one cool guy.
@@MasakoX he conquers planets and doesn't afraid of anything
@@badopinionsrighthere Doesn't afraid if anything indeed
@@ravishing_cadet4625 Doesn’t scare if anything indeed.
I think there's one thing about Bardock that most will be able to agree on...
His classic green armor looks waaay cooler and more unique.
Yep
Hard disagree for me, the new armor looks better to me.
Yep
@@kole-sama19 and the shoulder pads are horrible
Miss his old outfit and bandana besides that dbs bardock is perfect
I just like the old Bardock's design better. Red and green looked good and his outfit was more distinct. Plus the scar looks goofy now.
I liked the armor more. But hated the color combo.
@@Cloudx0x Yeah it doesn't always look the best. Sometimes the artist leans more towards puke yellow than green. Still I'd rather him have his own colours than basic Saiyan colours.
Are they the same?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes, but while one has a whole squad, the other has a Gine.
Gine for life.
MasakoX: "I think Bardock's Hype is getting really stale."
Bardock: "I Am The Hype!"
I knew this would be typed eventually.
I do like the Broly version simply because he went out fighting without that future vision. Didn’t know if his kids would be okay, didn’t know if his people would be avenged, but didn’t back down
What is everyone's problem with the visions? You make it sound like they came from nowhere.
@@JohnnyTightlips2007 Yea they came from the Kanassan who hit him in the back of the neck.
Which is honestly still dumb because how does that unlock future vision?!
@@mattwo7 Unlocked? It belonged to the Kanassan from the beginning and he gave it to Bardock. Or in this case Cursed him with it before he perished.
@@JohnnyTightlips2007 Guy literally hit him in the back of the neck which somehow unlocked the inherit precognition that I guess somehow exists in EVERY SAPIENT COGNITIVE SPECIES' brains or something.
He didn't do anything other than that.
@@mattwo7 Dude, the Premonition was the Kanassan's ability and he TRANSFERRED it to Bardock. It was literally his act of revenge, so he knew the terror that they had to experience.
You forgot the third version of Bardock...
The scientist!
Should've been canon in Minus
Not just any scientist but a brilliant one.
Masako: "Bardock pretty much turned into Jor-El."
Me: "So he IS a brilliant scientist!"
I personally think they didn't NEED to make him Jor-El, but that's more Minus' fault than anything else.
Even in the special Bardock still had a huge similarity to Jor-el in that they tried to give a warning that Krypton/Vegeta were about to be destroyed and were instead ignored. A similarity that was not in Minus.
@@costby1105 Okay that's one similarity. That's an understandable and practical one. What I didnt like about Minus is it gave him the Jor-El "we'll send him somewhere to be a great hero" vibe. Special Bardock didn't remember his kid until his future visions reminded him Kakarott existed and I liked his flawed character for that.
@@SuperSaiyanGuyver He sent him away to survive and become strong, he didn't care about him protecting earthlings or anything like that.
While I like Gine as a character I also prefer to OG Bardock in both character and design. I just think it makes more sense for him to be that way, especially when you consider how Raditz turned out, sure you can blame most of Raditz's development on Nappa and Vegeta but Bardock must have had SOME influence on Raditz growing up and if he was an attentive father who actively looked out for and cared about his children then there is no reason for Raditz to have ended the way he did.
And regarding the Goku thing, I don't see a reason for Goku to NOT accept Bardock eventually or develop some sort of respect for him since Goku managed to befriend Vegeta after all the horrible things he did in his life and even if you want to argue Vegeta redeemed himself and that's why he accepted him, Super Goku has clearly established a sort of respect for Freeza who is literally responsible for mass genocide and the death of his best friend. If Goku can come to an understanding with HIM then I don't want to hear crap about Goku not being able to accept Bardock OR Raditz.
Eh even if Bardock was an attentive father, the results would've been the same if you ask me. Being a slave to Frieza and having to deal with Nappa and Vegeta for a majority of life would've easily changed him.
Also even if she wasn't shown, I'm sure Gine technically exists in the OG Bardock story, since obviously he would've needed to have a kid with someone. She was probably different though.
I would have loved Bardock to remain ruthless when around his allies and enemies and even his kid Raditz, but around Gine, he would be a completely different person. I really wish that he wasn't force fed into super. He served his purpose and wish the story could develop beyond the next power-up.
I was a bit harsh on Gine for a while, but I came around. Every culture will have those that don't fit in the mold, for better or worse, and someone has to do the jobs the warriors don't want to do. To say Gine wouldn't exist is to turn Planet Vegeta into a planet of hats.
I thought it was a planet of vegetables.
I would argue that the history of the Saiyan's and the implications of their relationship with the Cold Force means that you actually can make them a planet of hats without being to outside the realm of believability. What if they were "uplifted" in a manner similar to the Krogan from Mass Effect? Then they would just have the non-warrior jobs handled by Cold Force personnel and they only needed those fit to be warriors.
10:00 EXACTLY!
Bardock still makes a majority of his choices according to the traditional Saiyan status quo as well as Frieza Force mission directives.
Being more emotionally intelligent than the usual Saiyan doesn't make him good. If anything, it probably made him better at his job whenever it came to it.
Super made Bardock more of a morally gray and complex character.
Db z fans are too stupid they dont know how a complex character can be better than a fan fic z bardock
I agree, he is more Morally Gray in Super, but I enjoyed each version of Bardock for what they were, they were good for what they were intended to accomplish.
@@blacklisted756 Morally Gray my ass he was a 100% hero in DBS in DBZ the man can be seen wiping out an entire civilization with no remorse but later defends his people from Frieza. That is the definition of morally gray.
They’re both the same personality wise. Only I feel DBS Bardock to have more depth and is better written in terms of overall plot. Old Toei Bardock only works for the special, but outside of that, he only exists as a fanservice character
Exactly. 90s Bardock has gaps in his personality that people have to extrapolate, whereas Super Bardock is pretty much a complete character.
Agreed. I've never bothered to give it that much thought. Never seemed that important
@@thecod2345 What you said is why I hate what Super is doing with the Saiyans. I prefer the Saiyans when they were cosmic barbarians who clearly only had space travel because someone else gave it to them, sort of like the Krogan from Mass Effect.
@@thecod2345 bland? I see that as being the point. Bardock was supposed to be your average Saiyan Warrior. If they made him too special than it ruins Goku’s prominence
Very factual 💯
I'm going to be honest, I still hate Super Bardock. But more so because I hate what Super is doing with the Saiyan's culture and history. I preferred the idea that they were basically the Krogan from Mass Effect. They were monsters that only cared about violence and only had space travel because someone gave it to them. In Super, they're just kind of less interesting to me.
That’s just not true. Look at nappa, Raditz, and Bardock. They weren’t monsters like Vegeta was. They still cared about one another
@@ultrainstinctgoku1926 Beg to differ with Nappa and Raditz. Unless I'm mistaken, we never really see any interaction between either of them beyond maybe one moment where Nappa suggests using the Dragon Balls to revive Raditz, and he quickly dropped the idea in favor of immortality.
Goku goten trunks Gohan try again with that cry harder
@@ultrainstinctgoku1926 facts
@@JACQUEZ23 Half Saiyans don't count because they're raised with human influence and Goku has brain damage and his upbringing with Grandpa Gohan that erases most of his Saiyan influence.
Bardock:"There is nothing about this whole scenario that doesn't make me so disgusted that I want to violently vomit out my own internal organs. I despise you both so intensely that I can't tell if my vision is blurry from my near-death experience or for my unforgiving rage. If allowed, once I am back to full health, I will gut you with an honest-to-God smile on my face, and then proceed to paint the home I build with your bodies with your very blood." "..."
Dbs bardock “your ignorant and thats my fault. Nah” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wait.. wait.. wait.. everybody got it wrong. Bardock is an average fighter.. but a brilliant scientist!!
We wanted to keep his laboratory background out of this haha
I think this all can be traced back to Raditz; he's the one who revealed that the main character wasn't from Earth and even had more family members, and then that went nowhere and was left blank throughout the rest of Z. The Bardock movies tried to fill some of the gaps, but they did little to show any meaningful connection. So that just left a sort of itch to know more about what life was like for the Saiyans including the family of the main character...
Of course like many things, revealing too much about something can make it loose that mysterious charm, and in turn make it less interesting...
What are you talking about Masako? The biggest difference is one has a sweet-ass bloodstained bandana and the other doesn't!
90s bardock > Super bardock
I honestly prefer 90's Bardock way more, sure DBS Bsrdock may have more depth, but having Bardock being like you average saiyan makes Goku's good nature more special, which DBS Bardock having traces of being good or Gine make it seem like Goku being good was always an option, taking away how unique of a case he was.
Regardless of the version im tired of Bardock, i truly hope that he isn't used in a long time after this saga.
Well, i personaly dont think he changed that much. I think we just seen him in a different environment. For real, all sayian culture has changed in this movie, so it wasnt just a change in Bardock. And this also takes away the "Goku is a distant father because sayians are like that", because now we know that Bardock and Gine werent like that.
And i dont think he was that much of a common sayian. If he was, the moment he knew that the vision was true he would have taken Goku and fleed. He wouldnt have cared about the other sayians following him or not.
I mean two acts of kindness isn't much. The only reason he did it was because it reminded him of his family. Mind you this Bardock still does everything that the old Bardock in DBZ did prior to meeting Monaito and everything afterwards.
7:00 well... in the current comics that's debatable, mostly because DC can't keep track of what's canon to save their lives, he used to be a paragon sure but most times nowadays he's depicted has an apathetic scientist and sometimes he goes from apathetic to straight up evil. Ditto for Batman's dad too btw. Apparently DC caught daddy issues last decade.
Look at who’s running DC/writing for them and that’ll explain why and why their sales are in the toilet
yeah. Bardock went from bad to pretty nice, while jor el went from good to bad.
Most superhero comics nowadays operate off the logic of "okay but what if they were an asshole" and call it good writing.
@@Tharja-iBW yup.
I think Gine is a boring, unnecessary character that only detracts from Grandpa Gohan’s value on Goku’s state of mind, and was put in to better serve the “Superman” analog. I won’t be quiet about it lol. Sorry, not sorry.
A lot of people feel the same. She's only ever detracted from the series unfortunately.
Yeah... that's the truth.
How does Gine detract from Grandpa Gohan? Goku still attributes much of who he is from how Gohan raised him. Goku inheriting personality traits from GIne wouldn't mean much if Gohan didn't teach Goku to never use his martial arts abilities to bully or murder other ppl like Tao.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 This exactly. Goku never shows any signs of being a good, model boy in Minus pre-meeting Grandpa Gohan.
@Jessica Martin "b-BuT gInE eXiStAnCe MaKeS nO sEnSe"
-Guy who hasn't touched a woman in his life.
90s Bardock team here. No need for Bardock to be the good guy and Mr family man like in DBS. He's an as*hole who doesn't care about his sons but ends up doing the right thing in the situation he's in and realizes his mistakes at the end. For me this was a perfect character and mini arc.
Thanks so much for taking my video suggestion I didn't really think you would lol. I completely agree with you dbs bardock is almost the same as the 90s version of him but the core difference is we know more about him, he's a more developed character, and he's had more of an impact in the narrative as a whole so I believe he's the better out of the two. Also thanks for calling my name cool its based off an old pokemon like game called Invizimals.
You're welcome! It was definitely worth talking about. :)
@@MasakoX Once again thank you I would definitely be interested in video discussing if bardock or Gine had an impact on goku breaking away from typical saiyan nature or if him remembering them would actually drastically change him as a character.
I love 90's Bardock but I love the supers version even more. In the end they are still Bardock.
There ya go!
@@MasakoX did you like episode of bardock ? Oh man I wrote that comment before you got to that episode of bardock picture ending.
Do you treat episode of bardock like Dragonball gt ?
A lot of people including myself just prefer how he was originally portrayed in the DBZ special though Super’s version of him in the Broly movie had a nice addition in the form of Gine and their relationship, however if I’m being honest he feels shoe-horned into the latest arc and Bardock himself is a mixed bag there in my opinion.
i agree man. at first, i didn't have much of a problem with Bardock towards the first half of this arc. now though, i think he's overstayed his welcome. he didn't need a whole chapter dedicated to his fight with Gas. we already knew Bardock won too. i also don't see how this helps Goku. in my opinion, Goku would've been better off ITing Gas to either Broly or Frieza to buy time. between the DBS Movie (which was referenced as happening) and now, over a year has passed in DBS. they may very well be stronger than before ans strong enough to buy Monaito time to heal Gas. neither would need to win, just stall long enough for Gas to recover. because -Gas- *Granola* deserves the win, not Goku
@@VantasticJackson I think you meant Granolah deserved to win right?
also Fox, you got a Discord or Twitter i can talk with you on my guy?
@@lvs1802 my bad😅, yeah meant Granola
@@VantasticJackson No I don’t use either of those, also I absolutely agree on Bardock overstaying his welcome at this point.
Interesting take. Personally, I've kind of gotten sick of hearing about Bardock. Was kind of dissatisfied with how the way to beat him was akin to "Punch him really hard" and acting like determination is the new and profound thing DB. In that case, Tien should've beaten Nappa because he was determined.
More of a sayian biology vegeta vs berus after he slapped bulma
U cant read can u???? He beat gas not cause of the power up it was cause of gas being out of control in his rage form. It’s obvious the way to beat gas is to get him to turn into that enraged form. Remember when a tired out base goku knocked back an enraged gas??? Ya thats how their beating him not because of “punching him really hard” u niggas really cant read. Elec obviously said gas lost cause he lost control of himself
@@fatdurk7934 Fr how do people not understand this
@@yokingstream1005 db fans cant read to save their life. And its hilarious when they try to criticize a chapter when their criticism is literally answered in the chapter their criticizing on. Like how van u read that chapter and think “oh u just have to punch him hard” when bardock was doing better against enraged gas than controlled gas before his power up. Bardock was getting mopped by controlled gas. Yet as soon as he went enraged he couldn’t whoop bardock(before the power up) like he did before due to him being out of control. Base goku knocking back enraged gas and him having ptsd of bardock made it obvious on how their beating him.
@@fatdurk7934 I didn't say that Gas wasn't inexperienced, I was saying that it's stupid how Saiyan's keep getting BS power ups from simply thinking a certain way to get stronger.
I had someone call my opinion trash just because I said I liked both DBS movie Bardock and 90's Bardock. It was literally random and they failed to explain their reasonings. It's getting kinda crazy and it was before the latest couple of chapters too.
I love that Bardock while having the personality of an average Saiyan, does care about his wife and kids a bit more then normal for his species. I mean it's obvious he had a difficult time showing how he cared for others.
It doesn't make any sense because, if he cared for his family, Raditz wouldn't have turned out the way he did.
@@PotatoSlices no, Raditz still would have turned out the way he did as a result of growing up with both Vegeta and Nappa. You have to remember environment does play an important role in how one's personality develops.
I feel like there a four interpretations of Bardock. There's the original appearance in Bardock The Father of Goku, his subsequent in Episode of Bardock, Dragon Ball Minus/Broly, and now Dragon Ball Super manga. The original Bardock becomes almost a different character after the first special, Episode of Bardock and all of his other appearances before Super distilling much of his motivations to being centered around him changing the future and featuring time travel in some form thanks to Episode of Bardock. Minus/Broly Bardock brings the characters roll much closer to the modern Jor El parallel then before. Super manga Bardock feels more like a merger of the best characterizations of both the original Z and Minus/Broly as a compromise. Hes still ruthless enough to wipe out an enemy civilization but has enough empathy to spare a noncombatant and feel open compassion for his family.
I think many who prefer ‘90’s Bardock do so more out of nostalgia. And I’m seeing many not like Super Bardock because he deviates from ‘90’s Bardock, which implies they’re setting him as the standard, and I think that’s misguided. Maybe it’s the fact that I didn’t watch the ‘90’s Bardock special until a little before DBS Broly, so I don’t have the nostalgia factor, but I do prefer Super Bardock. I like the ‘90’s one just fine, and I think the visions of the future worked for what they were trying to achieve with the special, but yes, it’s cheesy and I’m glad they didn’t do that for Super Bardock.
To me, Super Bardock has much more depth that works. W/the latest chapter we saw he’s still very much a Saiyan at heart, but it’s clear Gine had some influence on him that affected his decisions, not unlike what Bulma did for Vegeta. I would suggest Gine planted seeds of kindness in Goku and she rubbed off on Bardock to an extent. That’s a good arc, imo. Plus, Bardock connecting dots about the destruction of Vegeta makes more sense to me than visions. I didn’t think those visions in the ‘90’s special was that interesting. It only worked for what they were trying to do. There’s far more story now, and something like that wouldn’t work anymore. Plus, knowing this depth in Bardock has also given depth to Goku, and I suspect there may even be more yet to be seen.
I didn't watch 90s bardock till about 2015ish and I think supers interpretation is garbage. Modern Toriyama is a horrid writer and he lost his touch a long time ago.
@@Bourikii2992 toriyama was never a good writer though. Dragon ball fans overhype Z which has so many flaws and reused assets and many more problems.
@@ragingguts Reused assets is a anime problem in general from the 80s-2000s. Look at pokemon single frame "animation" at least once an episode lol.
His story wasn't amazing but it was at least *consistent*. It was a dumb action manga/show, needlessly retconning essentially every episode is just annoying. Gt was better than super and toriyama's current runs.
@@Bourikii2992 i disagree GT was the worse super had alot of prob just like Z did but super isnt as bad as your crying it out to be. Z was only consistent because it litarally was the same plot as the rest of the sagas. Bad guy shows up loses to a super moves hero gets new form
Funny thing is, but we could say that recently, Jor-El became more like Bardock. I think he is now out them murdering people... (thanks Bendis for ruining another thing)
My overall problem with the super one wasn't Bardock as a character, but they decided to retcon goku's story. Instead of escaping planet vegeta by chance and becoming calmer due to falling off the cliff.
Even though there were parallels between goku and superman's origin stories they were quite different. With the retcon the originality was wiped away and it felt bland
Yeah, that's my biggest problem with Gine's character in general. It cheapens Goku's story when he inherited his personality from her.
he didn't escape by chance lol. They purposely sent him off like they did all saiyan babies lol
@@duragvon2234 I know, but in the context of Vegeta being destroyed it was an escape by chance.
@@duragvon2234 In context, all of the Sayians were ordered back to Planet Vegeta by Frieza so he could wipe them all out. It was pure chance that Goku was sent off despite that order, possibly because some bureaucrat forgot to terminate his launch, or they thought Frieza wouldn't even care enough about it if they did.
@@mikegates8993 he doesn’t inherit his good nature lol
THANK YOU!! man they were like “hE uSeD tO bE cOlD hEaRt, NoW hEs SoFt” like bro, they are same in their own different way.
They should put the spotlight on Goku and Raditz mother and the wife of Bardock; Gine since pretty much every time we get a badass women fighters like 18 and Videl they get reduced to simple housewives and fade into the background
The Toriyama effect that somehow influenced Inuyasha, Bleach and Boruto lol
Only that this time, she's just that.
Heck, she didn't even got a fight, nor WAS a fighter... she was and is, just an housewife.
It's kinda sad to have this happen, to a relative of the most iconic anime fighter idiot around.
Toriyama effect at its maximum!
God, that TV burp bit really brought me back
Love the video. Personally I am tired of Bardock. It just feels like we are forced to care about him. When the only thing this cam do for me is make Goku want to know his family. And maybe get the chance to talk to his brother
I completely understand that they're trying to push the fact that Bardock is more of a father than the other saiyans. I really did not like the fact that Goku has suddenly remembered his father.
The entire point of Goku's character since the beginning of Z is that he's different from the rest of the Saiyans because he remembers nothing of them and was raised on earth.
I would have no issues if they somehow made Bardock and Goku meet at some point in the near future, but it needs to be written properly.
I personally think that DBS Bardock is better. I think that he fits somewhere neatly in the middle of what the Saiyans are now with Vegeta probably being the closest comparison. He still is ready to fight but he has a personality that isn’t just ruthlessness. He can show his empathetic and merciful side but that does not mean he is a total softy either. He has more dimensions in his character and I think that makes him better honestly.
I love how you are saying it yes I like Bardock having a bit more Dimension to him. He's far more interesting when he has more layers to him instead of just being the hardened badass he actually give the f*** for the people in his life.
I still think they need to combine the two bardocks to have the better character
I kinda agree with you Masako. There is such a thing as too much Bardock. He's starting to become quite overused.
imagine hes shown up 4 times total and thats overusing
Almost as if they’re trying to bank on him boosting sales because of fanservice
lol this is an awful take. He has appeared in about only 4 chapters... In what way is he "overused"? They have been saving his appearances for certain times where it benefits the plot, I think they have been fairly smart and strategic with Bardock's appearances so far. Especially considering this is the first time they are adding onto his story since the 90's.
@@lockthatgoddamndoor
That's like saying that Frieza appeared in "only" 4 arcs excluding GT...
No, it's not a matter of number of chapters, but of relevance and "oomph" that his presence has for the Granolah arc.
@@banditthiefbakura2077
That's like saying that Frieza appeared in "only" 4 arcs excluding GT...
No, it's not a matter of number of chapters, but of relevance and "oomph" that his presence has for the Granolah arc.
🎶We don’t talk about Bardock, no no no, we don’t talk about Bardock!🎶
I really had no attachment to either. The abridged work actually had more meaning for me and your comment on Supermans dad was great... Because they turned him instead a super asshole not that long ago... ya.. =/
So I enjoyed the video no matter how it came out!
Bardock was always a fanservice character. The original was better because at the end of the day he didn't matter. He was just another Saiyan who, despite having visions, couldn't do anything about them. He had zero impact in Goku's life and the fact Goku became powerful enough to face Frieza was just happenstance.
New Bardock, not even considering time travelling super Saiyan as Canon to super, isn't like that. He deliberalety took the decision to send Goku away and wished for him to grow up well. This made him have more of an impact than OG Bardock ever had. Not only his wish cheapens Goku's journey, but his actions are what cause Frieza's eventual downfall.
OG Bardock wasn't an deep character by any stretch of the imagination. He was simple and left the audience to fill the blanks. That's what made him work.
Super Bardock is a more complete character, but this didn't make him more interesting. It just made him more important for the sake of It.
Super Bardock isn't different enough to justify his existance and his actions didn't improve Dragon Ball in any way. They might as well have left Bardock as he was before.
Completely agree! I feel like Super and its fans trying too hard to make Dragonball like the modern anime's like One Piece and Naruto. The thing with Dragnball z was that the saiyans were not supposed to be that important, as far as i could see. Goku would've been your typical saiyan had he not gotten the influence from earth. And once he accepted his saiyan heritage with the sympathy he gained from earth he became the first to reach that legendary transformation. What the OG Bardock had that I felt passed on to Goku was a strong sense of loyalty and sacrifice.
Just realized this but in the super movie when he put goku in the pod Gine showed surprise that he was taking a active involvement in his sons wellbeing and his response to her was along the lines of "I've taken so many lives, I just wanna protect one now" now because of these flashbacks we know that he saved Granola before he sent goku away, so what if it was that encounter that solidified his involvement with goku?
Or, maybe, since he acknowledged his wish for his son to prosper, he took an active role in trying to make sure it came true?
@@basedimperialism also possible very good point
First you get mad that they’re using the new bardock type for this, then you get mad when they make his character more like OG? I don’t get what you want man
Thank you. This is what I've been saying. These two bardocks are not really at odds with eachother
The main difference is that DBS Bardock has more character depth, while the Z Bardock has better armour but both still have the same personality.
Imagine thinking z bardock a better character because he has better armor. Dbz fans are stupid
No bardock didn't care that much about Goku he cared about fighting hitting on fasha and going on other planets with tora ........to make mass genocide
They took my drip man!
@@brianaguilera187 Z Bardock cared about Goku as well thanks to his psychic powers.
@@j.i.k2.044 I don't think so. Z Bardock was only relieved by the fact that the one responsible for his race's demise was a saiyan. He's just happy that Frieza dies by a saiyan hand, he didn't really care about him. He's happy seeing his his growth in his visions more because he sees a saiyan winning battles, rather than seeing his son winning battles.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I've been just fine with Bardock's presentation in DBS
King Vegeta needs to be developed more.
I agree that both aren't as different as many make them out to be with Super's interpretation mainly focusing now on filling the gaps.
However, for me the aspects I liked about the DBZ special Bardock was his armour looked a lot better obviously but also the perception of his relationship with Goku.
I'd have to rewatch the Japanese version again but I remember Bardock's lack of care for was joked about with his squad, especially when he couldn't remember when Goku was due to fly off planet which made me perceive his negligence seemed even more extreme than usual Saiyan relations whereas DBS was in the opposite spectrum where Gine joked about how much Bardock cared for his son. Like you said though it could be interpreted as his intial feelings vs how they developed as Kakarot grew and he formed a bond but from the little both showed of him we could only go with the tones the movies presented and our assumptions.
As for the inclusion of Gine... honestly could take or leave her considering either way Goku would end up on Earth and be feral until he hit his head and learned compassion from Grandpa Gohan so adding her to be like "this is where it came from" is something I could take or leave. As for Bardock it gave something to attach him further to Planet Vegeta which worked imo so it balanced out.
TL;DR Prefer Bardock's Z outfit and perceived lack of caring for Goku until he got the visions of him continuing his legacy against Frieza. Indifferent about Gine. Plus blast from the past with the Harry Hill reference.
Ya I don't care for gine being the reason goku is nice I much prefer the goku hits his head thing and then Gohan teaching him more earthling ways it just fits the original dragon ball feel more then oh gokus nice cause his mom was nice
Bardock tho ya orignal design is better and I'm tired of dragon ball always removing the sayians tails just let a sayian have their tail please lol
Don't need go ape form but they could still have the tail still give them that bonus strength and maybe some other ssj4 type form that only sayians with tails can do as I've always seen that as just a mastered form of great ape with ssj anyway cause of the golden ape form needed to access it
@@RustyNips Yeah I assume it's still the same case considering Goku still acknowledges he had his head hit which would only happen due to him being so unruly prior to Grandpa Gohan teaching him. Which is why I feel her personality didn't really Mature in the grand scheme which is why I'm indifferent.
As for Saiyan tails I strongly agree I just liked the look and Ozoru form ever since Dragon Ball and would love for them to bring it back in similar form to ssj4.
I like DBS Bardock better cause he’s literally no different from the average Saiyan. Ruthless, does his job, loves to fight, has no regrets AND all while he doesn’t have his own trademark look. He has average Saiyan armor like the rest of them. I think the bandana and green armor made him standout and look too special imo
Literally the opposite of my opinion, the looks are mostly why I dislike Super Bardock. Too plain, no headband, no cool factor.
He didn’t get the banana until the end of the movie and that was symbolic and other than his armor looking better designed and less bulky than the dbs version I don’t understand the argument that he some how looks more special in it, he looks about as different as any other saiyan looked in their armor at that point. Could it be you’re only saying that because bardock is such a popular character?
@@prl4122 what he meant was z bardock stood out from the rest while super bardock design didnt. Which is better imo.
@@prl4122 he got a banana 🍌?
Yea, but to be fair about his armor, all Frieza Army armor back in the Z days was not standardized. Pretty much everyone except literal background-grunt Frieza soldiers has their own unique or semi-unique armor. Considering the Sayians are a warrior race and likely produced their own armor instead of importing from Frieza's factories, most Sayians probably had their armor personalized, just like Medieval knights would have their armor personalized if they were from a wealthy enough realm.
That's probably not what the animators were thinking of when they made the Bardock special, but I like to think of it like that. It gives Sayians in general much more flavor and backstory.
I just merge the two version of Bardock when righting fanfictions.
Good idea. We sorta did that for the Gine What If.
Depends. Toei/Bandai loves Z Bardock. He's the one that gets all the love and focus on the gaming and merchandising front. It's mostly Toriyama and Shueisha that's pushing the new one.
Here's the thing. I think as far as Bardocks go, I like Super Bardock more, but I prefer the AESTHETIC of 90's Bardock. I like the shoulderless green armor, and of course that blood soaked red bandanna. If Super Bardock had these traits, and Toriyama didn't feel the need to separate them, I feel like we'd have slightly less discourse over how Super Bardock is portrayed.
If the preference debate between 90's and 'Super' Bardock is a rowdy punch-up, then the debate over 'Episode of Bardock' is calm, civil, and only has disagreements over exactly _how_ bad it was.
Honestly, character wise? Super Bardock is fine. Its just that the 90s one looks the part better. But thats me.
6 months late. True, they both serve the same puropse. However the og had more reason to face Frieza than his counterpart. The blood headband of his comrades, visions of Goku(telling him he can be different), and his final speech to Frieza. Despite the power difference, Bardock still got under his skin.
0:48 Raditz reference
I strongly prefer Super Bardock
Even though I prefer the original reason Goku was sent to earth more, if you think about it this one may make more sense? Bc you would think if Frieza didn't pause saiyan babies being sent away and Goku wasn't sent away for a different reason that there would be waaay more saiyan babies out there than Goku on random planets. Still doesn't quite add up though.
While I prefer the og Bardock I agree. Just pick your preferred Bardock to be canon and done. Problem solved, u don’t have to pay much attention to the new Bardock if u don’t want to. Screaming over and over that u don’t like new Bardock isn’t going to change anything, just stick with your preferred Bardock ignore the other one and move on.
I will say that I prefer him fighting against Frieza due to having information over receiving a random vision. I also don't like what subsequent side materials have done to him (particularly Heroes and Episode Bardock).
Future vision made z bardock boring characters. He saved goku out of the vision and not his own feelings. Super bardock is easily the better written character between the two and anyone who tries to argue it just shows they dont know what good story is
"Better written" is subjective, especially in regards to anything Dragonball related. This new iteration of Bardock has problems of his own that hinder his character in comparison to his old depiction.
@@fatdurk7934
You talk about better writing, yet fail GLORIOUSLY in not even 3 lines, by saying that Bardock saved Goku thanks to his visions in the og story.
Goku was sent to Earth by his standart Saiyan planning, Bardock had no involvement with it at all in the og story.
As a British man I approve the Harry Hill reference, top man!
It’s too late, Masako. The rage must play out. Don’t deny it!
Bardock's visions of the future is a incredible plot device change my mind.
This fanbase "anger" is one of the reasons I generally despise anime fanbases in general. Anger, vitriol, THREATENING CREATORS when Characters act differently than what "fans" want them to do, it's all absolutely asinine. The Dragon Ball, My Hero Academia, and Naruto fanbases are in my experience among the WORST offenders when it comes to online bitching.
Agree they take the series so seriously and complain about everything.
DBZ Bardock is way iconic with his red bandana and unique armor compared to DBS Bardock who wears standard Saiyan Armor like his fellow kin.
Imagine a universe where Raditz got as much screen time as bardock
To think Kid Vegeta appeared in the 90's special, and Bardock's firstborn didn't 💀
If I made a Bardock fan manga origin story from when he was a kid all the way to Planet Vegeta demise, I would have combined both versions. With Bardock having a soft side for his family but as the series goes on and as he gets older, he started seeing much more blood shed and lost a lot of allies during missions that he becomes more cynical and more of a scumbag. When Freiza day happened, he tries to redeem himself by trying to take down Freiza himself and save Planet Vegeta. His fellow Saiyans, Gine and his 2 sons.
Edit: I would also make Fasha and Bardock have a Brother and Sister relationship and childhood friends.
I loved the emotional roller coaster of the 90s TV movie but thought the “see the future” thing was ridiculous. The Broly version gave us the logical “how is this NOT a trap?” version and a taste of those same emotions. Bardock, this time, has no way of knowing that his son grows up to be Goku, but just has to try to fight Frieza alone. And now we have the Super Bardock: “what are these? Emotions? They’re weird. Better ignore them and fight for realsies.” Point is, they both grew up in that toxic Saiyan culture that Goku was lucky enough to forget. Boy, do I hope this all leads to a reunion with Raditz.
But is he an official scientist now?
Great talking points, and I always enjoy your videos. Though I wish they had explained more earlier rather than later. I admit, I like the super version.
I genuinely care more for DBS Bardock. He feels like a more rounded character than Toei Bardock.
Bardock was an original character, and now he's a somewhat Jorel clone. I'm surprised Toriyama wasn't sued.
I like DBZ Bardock. He's got an original design and he is just better in my opinion.
Masako, thank you for always having good takes on things 👍
We need another part of the broly what if!
bruh i love that last bardock you showed where he goes super saiyan against frost 🤣
Gine as Goku's mother only matters if we retcon Goku hitting his head when he arrived on Earth.
He still would be a savage and probably just be beaten to death by Son Gohan
Sorry, but for me 90s jackass Bardock was always just a shock value/one-trick pony - it was fun watching him for the first time because he goes against everything we were expecting but every time after that he was just so flat and one dimensional. For me simply going against convention isn't enough. I want characters to be complex and show different side of themselves. I mean, this is why we love Vegeta - on surface he's vicious warrior but he shows compassion for his family. So why can't Bardock be similar? (Kinda ironic that it is Vegeta who resembles him more). Bardock is still conquer and invader, it's not being erased, we just see different side of him.
I wouldn't say no to a more detailed version of the old Bardock, but that's just it. Even at his most ruthless the new Bardock just kinda falls flat in comparison. The tragedy of Bardock the ruthless asshole not realising what he had until he was being blown to hell was entirely worth every bad moment and plot point in that movie. A lot of us just wish they'd stuck with that characterisation whilst building better plot points to flesh it out a bit.
I really don't like Gine as an explanation for why Goku is the way he is, we already had an explanation, one that was more satisfying for the story, that was Grandpa Gohan raising him and him losing his memory, we don't need him being a good guy by genetics, but by nurture and circumstances, Gine's inclusion only serves to diminishe the stories of the Saiyan and Fireza Arcs.
Good discussion Masako! I actually really like both versions of Bardock honestly. The 90s version kinda had that Clint Eastwood "Man With No Name" vibe, while the Minus/Super version has a little bit of that Yusie Fudo from Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's attitude to him, and no, I'm not suggesting his attitude was inspired by 5D's in any way, just saying that's who he kinda reminded me of at times in the DBS Broly movie. I'm also glad you brought up 90s Bardock acknowledging his son at the end of the show. For all the complaints that they made Super Bardock too caring, he was sort of doing that at the end of the TV special too. Like I've said many times, I hope that when the anime comes back and we get to this part, that they do something similar to what Naruto Shippuden did and have these "flash back" episodes featuring Bardock because let's face it, 15 minutes at the beginning of the DBS Broly movie and, let's be real here, a 1990s TV special really isn't a whole lot to go on when building an archive of this character.
in a fight :
strength : OG bardock
durability : OG bardock
experiences : super bardock
IQ : OG bardock
BIQ : super bardock
stamina : super bardock
feats : super bardock
raw strength : OG bardock
speed : super bardock
vision breaking the fight : OG bardock
uncaring father : OG bardock
caring father : super bardock
strategies : super bardock
has gine : super bardock
super bardock is better as a character and not fighting loopy loop character
At this point just make a spin off story for the Saiyan race or an alt-universe/world where Frezia didn't get the chance to destroy planet Vegeta.
Also out of curiosity what was your beef with that last version of Bardock?
My one issue with super Bardock is that it feels a little too Superman origin story. 90's Bardock has been such a mainstay in the games and extra non canon stores that you can't get rid of his presence any time soon
That's on Toei, whom exploited Bardock's image like a fanservice cow (not unlike Broly) until Toriyama turned him into an actual character.
"The Bardock rage must stop"... Now proceeds to end the video with time travel Bardock for a next video
DBZ Bardock is basically a space Spartan
More like Wrex from Mass Effect. He was the only smart person in a race of cosmic barbarians who only cared about fighting.
Captions keep giving you different names like MazdaCollects... MarzaKowaks
Bardock showing up was one of the reasons why I started paying more attention to the series again. I ignored most of the Super anime when it aired bc of some of the dumbing down. And i do like SDBH bc it is a bunch of 'smash action figures together' fan service...
(the Turles vs Raditz fight? come on! You can not say that didn't happen because fans saw Turles show up rocking that long hair and go "HEY WAIT A SECOND!" and they are fighting against each other! And to drag it back around to Bardock, he could possibly get both his sons to interact with now... mmm.... fan service)
Ok.
so Bardock, Bardock, Turles, Goku, and Goten. all walk into a bar....
The bar breaks
@@Toothache42 hahahaha!!!!!
I feel like DBS Bardock is the exact same Bardock personality/character wise
the more I read the more I like super bardock. simply because he's more developed. I miss the headband but the new outfit makes up for it's absence.
Whaaaaaa? I like all the Bardocks! The scene where he goes Super Saiyan and trounces Chilled's effeminate ass is glorious!
Maybe they should've approached the reason for Bardock's transformation differently... but the scene itself is freaking awesome. I love how when he's walking forward, the dimensions themselves seemed to quake!
I prefer when Bardock was great scientist
7:00-ish: that we know of. The truth is, we don't know a lot about Jor-El or Kryptonian culture other than their bitter rivalry with Daxam. We do know that they were a spacefaring species, that they knew the effect yellow and blue stars have on them, and that they were a known threat throughout the DCU and feared for their powers. For all we know, Jor-El laid waste to entire planets all the time.
Original Bardock was better idc. The current nice guy Bardock just makes Goku seem less unique of a character.
I’d pay to watch a Harry Hill styled fight of Bardock vs DBS Bardock. 🍿🍿🍿
I don't really have an issue with minus Bardock my only real issue is the special was all we needed for the character, we learned what we needed about him and it told a good self contained story and ended it on a nice tragic note leading into the proper series.
Things like him going back in time and becoming the first Super Sayian or having him be more involved in recent events I just got ask...why? Like Minus stuff isn't terrible but I just don't get why why they bothered just seems super forced to try and make Bardock relevant when he was never meant to be.
You hit the nail on the head in this video