Being an ENFP-A, I consistently smile seeing INFPs open up all bubbly (like us) when they are with a trusted person or small group talking about something they have a passion for 😊
Nah, that was the best way to communicate it and it's perfectly understandable overall The thing is, it's not some philosophical theory or abstract argument but a perception, some sort of experience of living as a thing in itself. Like, the thing that tries to convey it is _it_ itself. It conveys itself, not an idea about itself. It's really not something words can be used for directly, words describe ideas about things, representations of things. But here, words are just kinda like tangential external manifestations of the thing and aren't supposed to be taken as is And if they are too logical and systemic and form a consistent full convincing argument then it's easy to create this abstract theory out of them and adopt it as this external belief and remain in it instead of checking if our perception is the same and to somehow try to maneuver ourselves into a different place if those words don't yet make sense as our personal self expression Like, it's possible to describe a teapot with words and recreate it out of words immediately, but here it can't be recreated out of words. The understanding comes from some kind of completely different long internal process, and external words can only be used to check "are we there yet"
I always struggle with this, I know I am something, but when I try to hold the idea that free will is an illusion, then that something becomes nonsensical. It just doesn't make sence to me to be an experience of a predestined set of events. I mean, whats the functional purpose of me experiens that I am a self, without that self having any influence in the unveiling of events?
@@Grey-go9ur I think you might like the content of Sabine Hossenfelder on RUclips, about free will. This is one of the very few people in my life that gave me instant clarity on a topic. You should check out the vid. To give you a summary much less sophisticated than the video: imagine you had a will that your child would not fall down an open manhole into the sewers. That is your will. Some interpret that ' free will' means that nothing controls you, or manipulates you, your will is your will. And this is true... If a solution to a catastrophe could be solved if you allowed your child to fall and not get too hurt into a manhole, then you might allow it. But your will would be to have avoided this whole situation. That is to say, you might make choices that go against your will out of necessity, but your will remains the same. And thus, if your will cannot randomly change, it is not ' free', meaning your will stays loyal to your authentic self, it is SET, without a bunch of new information coming in. So it is not free in that way, but in the long term people and situations may influence you, but your underlying will remains the same. So you may repel unwanted influence of your will ( and thus is free), but remains true to what you believe and understand at the time (thus not free and fixed)!
It's not an idea. You can make it an idea, a form of belief, but then it's different and kinda pointless, and you can equally convince yourself to believe anything else about who you are, like whatever countless religions are claiming you must be It's possible just to try experiencing "yourself" being alive and experience everything that is a part of it without making any theories about it, like feeling sun on your skin or warm sand with your feet. You can treat everything the same way, the thing that makes you bothered by some idea, the thing that feels struggling, the thing that produces thoughts that you are something, the thing that experiences thoughts, etc. The phrase "there is no free will" then could be one of many possible ways of self expression of a new way of experiencing life that appears on its own after people simply experience life that way some time And you can't recreate it from words any more than you can recreate attraction to a gender you're not attracted to by reading that someone else loves that gender
@@NJ-wb1cz I appreciate your perspective on experiencing life directly rather than getting caught up in abstract ideas. However, it seems to me that pondering the existence of free will is itself a part of the lived experience you describe. Whether it's feeling the sun on my skin or pondering existential questions, both are aspects of my experience of being alive. So, even if free will is just another concept, thinking about it still falls well within the boundaries of the framework you've suggested. It's not just an intellectual exercise, it's part of experiencing life and understanding our place in it.
@@NJ-wb1cz That is an articulate and intelligent comment. I would guess you may be of the SP, leaning, tell me if I am wrong. It is something genuinely good in social media that different people can express their perspectives honestly and agree or disagree, respectfully. I would never have thought of the response you made. We all have different pieces of the puzzle!
@@carybaney2548 I intended to reply to you too, but for some reason I forgot. Thank you for the recommendation, and the summary, I will have a look at it, always interesting with different perspectives:)
Being an ENFP-A, I consistently smile seeing INFPs open up all bubbly (like us) when they are with a trusted person or small group talking about something they have a passion for 😊
A amen amen ❤Amen !?Hoot studies this,😊 although interesting. Both right Safer know No 😮😮 a😊S😅😅
Love your dynamic! So much respect, humor and love! It's a beautiful thing to see. Super interesting topic too 🙂
I see that there is free will but predestination is the grand chess master
4 min in and I have no idea what she's talking about lol
Nah, that was the best way to communicate it and it's perfectly understandable overall
The thing is, it's not some philosophical theory or abstract argument but a perception, some sort of experience of living as a thing in itself. Like, the thing that tries to convey it is _it_ itself. It conveys itself, not an idea about itself. It's really not something words can be used for directly, words describe ideas about things, representations of things. But here, words are just kinda like tangential external manifestations of the thing and aren't supposed to be taken as is
And if they are too logical and systemic and form a consistent full convincing argument then it's easy to create this abstract theory out of them and adopt it as this external belief and remain in it instead of checking if our perception is the same and to somehow try to maneuver ourselves into a different place if those words don't yet make sense as our personal self expression
Like, it's possible to describe a teapot with words and recreate it out of words immediately, but here it can't be recreated out of words. The understanding comes from some kind of completely different long internal process, and external words can only be used to check "are we there yet"
I think you are an intelligent INFP!
@@carybaney2548 ☺️
I always struggle with this, I know I am something, but when I try to hold the idea that free will is an illusion, then that something becomes nonsensical. It just doesn't make sence to me to be an experience of a predestined set of events. I mean, whats the functional purpose of me experiens that I am a self, without that self having any influence in the unveiling of events?
@@Grey-go9ur I think you might like the content of Sabine Hossenfelder on RUclips, about free will. This is one of the very few people in my life that gave me instant clarity on a topic. You should check out the vid. To give you a summary much less sophisticated than the video: imagine you had a will that your child would not fall down an open manhole into the sewers. That is your will. Some interpret that ' free will' means that nothing controls you, or manipulates you, your will is your will. And this is true... If a solution to a catastrophe could be solved if you allowed your child to fall and not get too hurt into a manhole, then you might allow it. But your will would be to have avoided this whole situation. That is to say, you might make choices that go against your will out of necessity, but your will remains the same. And thus, if your will cannot randomly change, it is not ' free', meaning your will stays loyal to your authentic self, it is SET, without a bunch of new information coming in. So it is not free in that way, but in the long term people and situations may influence you, but your underlying will remains the same. So you may repel unwanted influence of your will ( and thus is free), but remains true to what you believe and understand at the time (thus not free and fixed)!
It's not an idea. You can make it an idea, a form of belief, but then it's different and kinda pointless, and you can equally convince yourself to believe anything else about who you are, like whatever countless religions are claiming you must be
It's possible just to try experiencing "yourself" being alive and experience everything that is a part of it without making any theories about it, like feeling sun on your skin or warm sand with your feet. You can treat everything the same way, the thing that makes you bothered by some idea, the thing that feels struggling, the thing that produces thoughts that you are something, the thing that experiences thoughts, etc. The phrase "there is no free will" then could be one of many possible ways of self expression of a new way of experiencing life that appears on its own after people simply experience life that way some time
And you can't recreate it from words any more than you can recreate attraction to a gender you're not attracted to by reading that someone else loves that gender
@@NJ-wb1cz I appreciate your perspective on experiencing life directly rather than getting caught up in abstract ideas. However, it seems to me that pondering the existence of free will is itself a part of the lived experience you describe. Whether it's feeling the sun on my skin or pondering existential questions, both are aspects of my experience of being alive. So, even if free will is just another concept, thinking about it still falls well within the boundaries of the framework you've suggested. It's not just an intellectual exercise, it's part of experiencing life and understanding our place in it.
@@NJ-wb1cz That is an articulate and intelligent comment. I would guess you may be of the SP, leaning, tell me if I am wrong. It is something genuinely good in social media that different people can express their perspectives honestly and agree or disagree, respectfully. I would never have thought of the response you made. We all have different pieces of the puzzle!
@@carybaney2548 I intended to reply to you too, but for some reason I forgot. Thank you for the recommendation, and the summary, I will have a look at it, always interesting with different perspectives:)