EVERYTHING You Need to Know About Topology
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
01:58 Why Topology is Important
05:12 Making Topology
10:02 Polycount
15:16 Games VS Cinematics
18:10 High Poly Models
20:34 Topology Breakdown
38:50 Skillshare
39:58 Outro
Honestly, you're a gift to the 3D art community.
Ha, I appreciate it
Agreed
@@artofjhill i am new here.
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👋
There's a bit of a difference between topology for characters, and topology for everyday objects like hard surfaces etc, and how you go about making it. This video is everything about topology for characters, mostly post sculpt. Just FYI for those watching. All good info though!
that was gonna be comment so have a like random citizen
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
I wish I had this video when I was first starting out. I remember having to spend hours googling on topology for characters and best practices, but never getting much information out of the pros. I've learned a lot in practice, but this video has taught me a lot of things that I *didn't* know. One of the things I really appreciate is the breakdown in workflows between topology for real-time, and topology for offline rendering. I know the rules but never quite understood why those rules were in place, or how to apply them better.
Glad to hear you learned some things
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Excellently structured vid. I’ve watched too many videos on topology that focus more on the tools rather than the methodology. This video is helping reinforce a lot of my learning thank you!
Such a well made video Jay, the work you put into your channel shows! Picked up a copy of that stop staring book as well, thanks!
Thank you, glad to hear it and enjoy the book!
Great video! Currently prepping for an assignment where I'll be making a game-ready character, so your explanations from both perspectives of games and cinematics are super insightful, especially the tips on triangulation. In my degree (Game Design) they've mainly taught us from an animation perspective since the criteria have been based on the Creative Industries (Animation) degree, it's only in the past couple of years that they have been trying to factor in a games perspective.
Glad to hear it was helpful. Good luck with your degree
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Absolutely the best explanation I've seen so far, and you've set the bar so high I really doubt I'm going to find a better experience for a long time. PLEASE KEEP IT UP IM LOVING THE DEEP LEARNING AND THE WAY YOU EXPLAIN EVERYTHING. 💯 😎👍
Subscribed. I struggled to find a good tutorial on topology explanation on RUclips until I came across this video. It explains the concept very effectively. I hope those learning 3D modelling discover this video first, avoiding any confusion caused by incorrect or inaccurate tutorials.
Thanks for another great video J! Keep it up!
Two minutes in and I've just subscribed. I can tell this is going to be an amazing lesson.
This is great. As I’m staring on a path of learning 3D Modeling for 3D Printing and finding if I just throw polygons at my model it will be bloated in file size or take forever to slice for printing. Great stuff baked in here
Thank you man and your videos have helped me to understand more about 3D printing. I’m still very green at that. We should team up to make something
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
This video is golden! It's full of so much information, thank you!
Your tutorial videos are amazing. I decided to go back to creating soft after 16 years. soft soft is so easy to get into, but also offers
Great video!! Covered everything really well subbed!!
Tremendous! I'm a techie doing hard surface models for engineering (but learning a little organic modeling for personal enrichment), and I learned so much from this lesson, even things that will apply to my hard surface work. Thank you for sharing your talent and experience so generously!
Thanks for the comment! Happy to hear you found it useful
Great stuff, mate. Very helpful video! Thanks!
Thank you, this video is exactly what I was looking for ❤
This is awesome. Can you go over modeling in different modes? Gimbal, perspective, normal? I'm a visual learner and would be great to see how you use these to model a project.
Cool video and simple explanation of the topic. I would like to see more videos like that ! keep going that way =)
Great content, very informative. thank you!
Thank you so much for your explaination. Your way of teaching and speaking is so clear!
Happy to help. Gl
this is such a complete video, great information all around character modeling, amazing.
Have you thought of making a video about SubD modeling? Currently learning that style of modeling
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
awesome info
Thanks J
You got it. I hope it helps
Hi J Hill.
The best tutorial I've ever watched on Character Topology. I am using C4d and I have studies on human modelling. Maybe I know most of the elements you describe, but with this video, everything fell into place in my head.
Thank you so much. Stay cool.
That’s great, I love to hear it helped. Good luck and happy modeling
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Amazing video. Thanks for making it; I can feel the esoterica falling away a bit...
I really appreciate your explanation of quads vs triangles based on the necessary development process. I have studied a lot of professional game models, seen so many triangles, so I use them in my work to do just what you say: end loops and save verts. However, when people call me out on it I never really know what to say because I know it's okay to do, but I didn't know why. Now I understand that triangles are only bad if a mesh needs to be subdivided predictably, such as for cinema rendering!
Glad I could help!
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Thanks for the information
You got it
Thanks bro. I was trying to understand why I needed quads for game dev and this answered all my questions. Well done
that's the best video ever about topology! thank you, Jay!
Thanks Yulia :)
Your videos are gold for anyone who wants to know the aspects of 3D in depth. I learned a lot thanks to you. You are clear in your explanations and pleasant to look at. thank you for your work
Thank you, I’m glad it helped
Thank you so much for the free subscription, your work is extremely inspiring so here's hoping I can learn something new
Thank you for this video and wish you all the best :)
Thank you! Great job! Finally there's a video, that explains the whole topic from a to z!
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Thsnks for all... so good your teach
All important information bundled and presented with style. Well done 👏
Glad you liked it!
Extremely helpful video! Great job! I'm only starting to learn modeling, but I see myself rewatching this in the future, when I better understand things to polish my skills.
Have a great day! x)
Hope it help. Glhf
great clean and concise
very helpful, thank you
I really love retopologizing, and I most definitely love how to learn better and more efficient ways to retopo. This was an awesome vid~
Thank you! I have so much retopology you could do
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
at 16:45, its mentioned that the mesh will be subdivided.
might interest some people as to why its subdivided.
you subdivide a model for the deplacement map.
deplacement will pull polygons to make details.
so you start from low-ish polycount to animate,
block out etc.
and come final render, the renderer will subdivide the model and pull geo with help from the displacement map.
in that sense, if you're not working with displacement map, you dont actually have to subdivide the model. example, stylistic 3D animations, cell shaded animations, cartoonish looking stuff etc, anything you can get away with a normal map, which makes fake bumps. (as opposed to displacement map, which makes real bumps)
I think your missing the point. He is also talking about the smoothing subdivision that is used to smooth and round thing. Basically everything that is organic or round can be made at 1/8 or 1/4 or the final expected poly count. And then it get rounded only when required.
To give an example imagine you make a leg out of a rectangle. Then you add a smoothing subdivision to make it round after on top of that you add a resolution subdivision for displacement or for sculpting details. These are independent feature added on top of each other.
@@leucome this ^
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
This was brilliant. Thank you.
Totally very great video. I am diving into this and using Blender 3.4 with budget tools like Speedretopo. Reflow I will try next. But speedretopo is absolutely great to learn how to model partially manually. Why my quads turns to triangles and triangles newer ends all over the place. But J Hill just explained. First I thought I don't know something. Apparently it is normal to have challenges with manual topology. Thanks!
Congrats on 100k Jay. You have come so far and really deserve this.🎉🎉🎉
Thank you!
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
heya Jay this one is supa cool info as always you are one of the best of cg dudes
Amazingly useful & concise. A mini MasterClass. Thanks 🙏☕️🎩🎩🎩
This is the best 3D modeling video I have ever seen. Thank you so much for the knowledge~!
Wow, thank you!
Thank you, great structure.
Thank you sir. I was having a hard time understanding topology. Such a nice job!
Glad it helped!
Edge flow is important but polygon construction is always dependent on the needs of production. What is the model being used for? There is clean topology and then there is efficient topology. Those two things are always going to be conflicting with each other because an efficient model means more loop termination points, which means more poles. Both types are "good" depending on those needs.
Vfx models with hyper real deforms tend to have less poles but at the cost of denser, more uniform size polygons. This is because there are advanced deforms intended underneath. Muscles, bones, etc. You don't split the loops for the elbow bone, for example, because the location of that boney area will slide around realistically around the skin.
An efficient mesh is more common with sub-d models because the deforms are more cartoony, so minimal vertices are ideal when distributing bone weighting gradients. Those models can sometimes tend to use more aggresive displacement maps to bring back sculpt details, however, at the cost of less vertices to do detailed deformations.
Most cartoony faces (let's say """Disney""" style) won't be "efficient" because cartoony usually requires more extreme deformations for animation purposes and you want to make them look good. It's the edge case as much as digidouble with muscle sim.
@@shana_dmr That's true! vfx models the same. I did vfx character work for Atomic Fiction for awhile. Less poles, but denser cleaner uniform square meshes. Also takes into account 'sliding weights' for things like bones sliding under the skin.
Thank you so much! It work!
Very clearly explained. Thanks.
subscribed and bought your base mesh! I have been looking for something like this for a while.
Thank you! Have fun
Thank you for sharing this. I´m always wondering if I'm doing topology right, this video helps a ton.🙏
great, love to hear it. Good luck! and have fun
Thanks, very good video, everyone starting out should listen to what you have to say.
after hours of trying to understand topology you finally made it make sense. Thank you so much.
I can definitely see the cheeky RGB blur around the edges of the screen. I also love that effect! 🌈
Excalibur level delivery of concepts with real world application. Bravo brother!
Thank you man, I hope it helps with something!
All excellent points in your overview thanks for sharing. I use blender for all the aspects, ive made a base mesh with proper topo by poly modeling from a round cube, then with multires workflow I can sculpt unique characters off the base mesh, those sculpts could be heavy and do retopo if need be, or they could be simpler shape-keys for a morph system, etc, etc. Im still on the learning journey with everything, so I love your vid's.
Happy to hear that. Keep it up
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Worked, thx
nice vid! When you talked about the grid lines and how they should ideally flow along creases and anatomy that will move certain ways, that made a whole lot of sense to my brain. comparing yours to the stock zbrush was also informative. Julie got ISSUES. heheheheh but then it was prob just a fast thing they added for people to play around with w/o animation in mind like you said. thx for the info!!!!
Glad you liked it!
this could not have come at a better time, thank you J!
Glad to hear it, I hope it helps
I keep coming back to this for reference every few months. Thanks for sharing this knowledge, Jay!
Awesome, I’m glad the video is helping. You got it
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Hi J Hill, your human topology tutorial is incredibly amazing! I want to ask, can you do a complete analysis of the Chris`s Jones Universal Human?
I hadn’t heard of it but just looked it up and it looks great!
One thing worth mentioning that some people forget about face - please, please have same amount of verts on both upper and lower eyelid half-loops - avoids getting eternal curse from the rigger because damn eye doesn't want to close:))
Nice tip!
@@artofjhill Thank you :) Also what I think is good exercise - become a face rigger for a second, just grab the soft selection and try to "pose" the face - every beginner modeler can learn a lot trying to more or less sculpt blendshapes, as riggers we often (especially for more stylized characters, for realistic VFX stuff yes it often starts with painting crosses on someone and making 1500000 photos to Russian Wrap) don't user super advanced tools just push vertices around till it looks good - and it teaches immediately what all these loops around the eyes are for and how bad placement of poles can make getting good deformations without pinching and weirdness next to impossible.
Hey J! Since you talk a lot about facial animations and blendshapes in this video, it'd be quite cool if you could talk about blendshapes in real time renderers, where there isn't many polys, like for games. Thanks for these videos, they're a gift for everyone trying to better themselves in 3D. Precise and all encompassing :D
thanks. I'll be getting into more real time animation soon hopefully
@@artofjhill I'll watch the video on an endless loop 😅
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
thank u ！！！the best topology viedo ever seen！
Glad to hear that!
I wish I would of found this years ago! I have learned so much from watching today! I had a little bit of understanding but I frustrated trying to find a good teaching video on topology This is the Video! I watched and took notes and snippets of examples. You really have opened my understanding on this subject and can't wait to start applying what I have learned. Thanks a million for this! I am going to have to get those books!
Happy to hear it and glad I could help! Glhf
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Thanks ❤️
Good stuff! Thanks!
Glad you liked it
Awesome video! Thanks a lot!
Thanks, I hope it helps
Thank you J!
Np!
Thank you for the video, it helps a lot.
Happy to hear it
Thank you sir fr such an synergistic video
Glad you liked it
year for all of us, for so- it's still ongoing. i respect you for being honest as that's what's been keeping a bit sane recently, just being
What a great video!
Man this is wat I was waiting for!! Feels like u read my mind 😅
Glad to hear it, I hope it helps!
Thank you for this! Super cool video! A+++
This is a awesome video, it helped me a lot!!
Glad to hear it
I have never created anything but I now have Blender installed and starting tonight. I understood everything in this video very easily and it inspired me to get started.
Glhf
Excellent overview!
Thanks. I hope it helps
million thanks J Hill brother!
I hope it helps
Thanks so much for all the knowledge bombs. I feel so enlightened, I'm almost a different person from the one that hadn't watched this video 😵
I don’t know about all that lol but I’m glad you learned some things and liked the video
@@artofjhill on a serious note, though, you have completely demystified the concept. Everyone kinda knows it's a big deal, but for people without industry experience, it is not clear what is meant by "good topology". Googling around a little you may find concepts like topology for subdivision/shading/animation but the way you elaborate exactly what each thing means in practice and breakdown everything with your knowledge and expertise, it's INVALUABLE..And all off that in 40 minutes! That's brilliant and probably painstaking work in terms of ideation and video production. HATS OFF TO YOU SIR.
you are the true teacher. that's really help to make my career. thankyou very much.
Glad you find it helpful
Very nice and educational video as always Mr J Hill! I have a question, where can we find The Art of Moving Points (with the videos) except the Apple website? Thank you!
Animation and unwraping are the main reason topology are important and polygone budget became less an issue especialy for static asset, except for mobile game and also keep a reasonable memory usage. Nice explanation of topology for human animation, i probably use some polygroup to make clean deformation zone.
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
Yet another banger J!.
I want to add for the poly count it's important to know your goal and at times your intended audience.
The game I'm working on for example has a rough budget of about 10-20k triangles per character and it can be important of you have a portfolio to target polycounts for the projects you want to work for as well.
I still have a bunch to learn as far as learning low poly and stylized workflows since I am coming into the field as a learned 2d artist , my self taught knowledge in 3d is somewhat limited so I figure that this could help someone maybe in the same position as I was in :)
Glad you liked it! Targeting what you want to work on and even more futuristic specs in your portfolio is absolutely what you should do and is good advice. Keep going!
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
i wish you also went over some quadruped topology, i know in genreral its all the same principle but maybe some examples etc or talking about problem areas like skin fold between leg/belly. anyway great video i was a bit sad when it ended :d
Glad you liked the video. Quadrupeds would be super specific for sure but in general I’d say it’s like 4 shoulders in how all the legs move of that helps
Tip for smoothing Stars/poles in Zbrush:
Hold Shift, begin smoothing w/ brush, RELEASE shift while continuing to smooth.
This switches to an alternate smoothing algorythm that deals better with poles in topology.
100% about the triangle adding to ensure the quad is splitting the correct way, also important for baking that you know the triangulation is the same for the final model as the bake model to avoid artifacts later. When you import quads (non triangulated) into an engine its going to turn to triangles and some may be rotated (the dividing part of a quad) unless you export with triangulation checked or add it as a modifier to your stack / history. Fun times!
💯
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
This was very informative
So this is the perfect Video for all Character Modeller.Thank You ! What i miss and thats a bit false leading on the Titel. It have to be "All you need to Know about Topology for Charakters" .If it comes to SubD hardsurface some of this changes. For example you need Topology for microdisplacment. And you have some other techincal aspects like Holding Edges for shaping and so on.
Valeu aí, conhecimento é sempre bom.
Can you make a video/tutorial on facial expression? (Tips and tricks)
That would be really helpful.
And quadruped topology maybe, for CG. I find it really confusing sometimes.
www.youtube.com/@Stylizedostudio
I'm an artist who is a beginner at 3d modeling and I need to learn quickly how to do this so that I can start making a video game. I really appreciate this
Np. Good luck
Thank you very much!!
You're welcome!
Thanks!
Thank YOU
There's too much slightly incacurate info to correct but I will say threadripper isn't desktop it's HEDT (High-End Desktop) Epyc and Xeon are workstation. Most of about PCI-E lanes is true but current GPUs can't even saturate the bandwidth of an 8x PCI-E. But NVME can.
Wow!! Amazing video. I am an artist painter and art teacher and it would benefit all art teachers to learn topology when it comes to build a character or a figure. I am a complete newbie in 3D and got immediately hooked by how important is to understand topology. Your explanation is just marvelous, so thank you very much.
Thank you for the nice comment! Glad you liked the video
This is a good video. I come from the Blender world, where the amount of misinformation is insane, and there are a lot of bad Blender topo videos on RUclips. It seems like all any Blender peeps learn about topo is "all quads!" and so then they do things like make degenerate quads instead of tris just so they can call it all quad.
One of the more technical things that I didn't see you mention was knowing where your mesh was *planar* . I understand you're typically a game modeller, but the thing with poles really shows up when you start working with subdivided models, where poles/stars just don't subdivide right. Except-- as long as all of the faces are planar with all of their neighbors, it doesn't matter. So you end up putting poles where it's planar. And, in terms of sculpting, there are a lot of sculpting things that are doing similar things to subdivision (same algorithms, or derived algorithms), so that's why they don't do things right there either-- but yet again, if it's planar, it's fine. Then, what about animation? Once you start deforming a mesh, you don't know whether it's going to be planar anymore, right? So that's why you put the poles in places that aren't going to deform much: they're not going to go dramatically out of plane (the way that a lip vert might, for example.) And it's a balancing act: the more planar they are, the less it's going to look wrong, even if they're not perfectly planar. (Really, topo for deformation isn't something any different than topo for something static: you want edge flow that describes your shape. The complication is that your one topo is going to deform into a lot of different shapes-- but, not *every* shape, there are things you know the animator isn't gonna do. So you make edge flow that represents the shape in likely deformations.)
I don't think it's particularly hard to UV map or weight a triangulated mesh (i just select shortest path, but it probably depends on your preferred program), but it's kind of hard to maintain good edge flow when you're modelling in tris. Using planar quads makes it clear what your effective edge flow is, for purposes of smooth shaded normals. (If they're not very planar, it doesn't help at all though.) You can triangulate the mesh afterwards, and it'll be fine, but if you work with triangulated meshes to begin with, what's the edge flow, which is the diagonal? It just doesn't end up working right.
I'm a solidworks CAD product designer. Came to your channel to find answers about the difference between topology and geometry and now I'm LOST 😂😂
Ha. It’s different?