I thought the Royal Enfield Himalayan would be lighter than my 06 BMW F650GS but was shocked that its almost 25kg heavier.. Thats changed my mind about getting one... Ill keep my aging BMW...
Especially compared to what they used to weigh. There's a reason I got a used F650GS twin for touring. At under 200kg fully filled up this does fit on the upper scale of midweight and well below what most current bikes in this range weigh. "Light" enough so I as a normal man can pick it up - I wouldn't want a heavier bike than that and don't like the direction the market is going weight-wise.
A friend who's 5'4 recently bought the F850 GSA. Even with the low seat he tiptoes. And it weighs almost as much as the bigger 1250. It's insanely heavy. But brand value and happiness of acquiring a big bike overrules sensible decisions. 2 other friends convinced him even though I who has done the most adventure riding was against it. But unlike me these guys will mostly ride on highways on the weekends and maybe an annual ride for a week. So guess it's ok.
I totally agree. Motorbike companies find favourable grounds to push their products among reviewers either magazine or online. For me, everything approaching 200Kg is "heavy weight ADV bike", because you also have to add luggage and petrol to have an adventure. That is why I chose a KTM 500 EXC all prepped up 😃
I agree, 200kg (and anything close to it) is a heavy weight bike. More and more people are beginning to understand that and, as such, are looking for better options. It sounds like your KTM 500 is a great light weight adventure bike.
This rings so true, and is something I've been saying for literally 10 years or more. Way back when, and before I knew any better, I did a LOT of "research" and ended up deciding on a 2010 F800GS because I wanted a "lighter" ADV bike. Man was I shocked when I tried to take that thing off road. It was horrendous LOL. I blamed myself for not being a good rider, because the bike was obviously not the problem. 13 years and a lot of humility later - and I'm riding - a CRF300L. I wonder how many riders have been scared away from this wonderful sport because marketing is bullshit?
@@ShonkyProductions In 1980 when BMW released the GS it was 800cc. I just saw that the 2023 is going to be 1,300cc - Madness! The advertising people have won the race here! Gotta have the biggest one!
Years ago I went on an adventure rally with a mob of people.. I was riding a KLR600 and I crashed it.. Not badly but bad enough that I didnt want to continue - I was exhausted trying to manhandle that thing around... My mate rocked up on his Yamaha XT250 and said we should swap bikes to get me back to the start.. So we did.. He had a hoot on my bike as it was more powerful than his, and I had a hoot on his bike because it was a lot lighter than mine.. The difference was our riding experience.. I ride a lot of roads with a pinch of gravel road riding without anything too technical.. My mate used to race enduro bikes when he was a young bloke.. So I think everything boils down to a riders experience vs the choice of bike.. And the weight of the thing too... I currently ride an 06 BMW F650GS after having a number of R1200GS bikes and decided that lighter is better (unlike all my other biker mates that reckon I should get the next biggest thing)...
You know, another massive factor in all this is just price. Not just up front price, but the cost of ownership of a peice of equipment you plan on putting through hell. Anybody that really uses something knows they are going to beat it up on the daily. How much are the plastics when you drop and break the GS1250? I stick to my KLR and DRZ. One is for dirt, one is for gravel/road. Both cheap as hell.
You’ve set the Upper Limit for a lightweight adventure bike at 150kg. Yet below this you are really looking at enduro bikes. These are not adventure bikes, they don’t do the touring part well at all. You start with bad assumptions and end up with a bad conclusion.
What I’d like to know is why the hell do bikes just keep getting heavier? My 1998 Yamaha TTR250r weighed 124kg wet, the CRF 300L is 140kg. Is this really progress? Even my current bike (DRZ400) is 138kg and it was designed 2 decades ago. In ten years time we’ll have a CRF 350L that weighs 160kg and it will be considered “light weight”.
My rule has always been never buy a bike I can't pickup by myself (went with a DRZ). There's nothing more pathetic than a guy who needs help to pickup his overweight bike due to his ego being stronger than his physical condition.
I'm an Aussie postie and used to ride a Honda NBC110 till they took them away and replaced them with the Kyburz electric three wheelers.. So I went and bought my own postie bike (a CT110).. I love my postie bike that I use to go do the shopping.. I'm thinking of going camping on the thing.. I rode one at work which I'd done for 13 years, so I reckon riding my own postie bike off road is going to be fun...
Good point. Last year I had the F750GS that weighed close to 240 kg with the crash bars, etc. And with the (nice and convenient) hard cases it was into the R1250gs territory. Proved too heavy and combersom for me. Sold it and upgraded to CB300R and changed few things so I can travel and ride on gravel roads. Very happy.
I was liking bikes with 190kg range , royal enfield 450/triumph scram400X but due to my short height i wanted to light weight bike under 160kg and only available bike in that weight category is cb300r .
I think the real sweet spot is the 500exc/690 enduro/701/501. Those bikes seem to make great adventure bikes, especially when they're built out. Not a huge fan of the price tag though. Been happy with my CRF250L Rally
2nd hand big ktm are great, got my 500 at 2 year old and 2kmiles on the clock for 4.5k GBP less than shop, nearly half price - brand new bike in reality and a f'in weapon, light, fast and will go anywhere
For true adventure riding light weight is a definite advantage, wrestling a heavy machine in tough conditions would be a nightmare. Too many inexperienced riders focus on the speed a larger bike is capable of, this is of little importance unless its a race, which an adventure should not be. In countries where motorcycle capacities are lower, the other road users, specifically cars, don't expect the speed differential which is particularly dangerous, not to mention animals on the roadside. Travelling at lower speeds in unfamiliar locations greatly reduces the potential for an accident, if an accident should occur, the severity of of potential injury is equally reduced. Many tend to carry way too much luggage, this only magnifies the problem, somehow I managed to travel over 300 000 km, mostly in third world countries with a maximum additional load of less than 20kg, my rain gear was garbage bags and insulation tape. During that time, 1980's and 1990's, there were no electronic gadgets to further compliicate things, it was the most rewarding time of my life, adventure riding in its basic form. Keeping it simple makes it more rewarding, in my opinion naturally, engine capacity is largely irrelevant, there are those who managed with 90 cc that I met along the way, my choice was a Yamaha XT 500, which is amazingly similar to my current Honda CRF 250 l in terms of feel, albeit without the low revving torque. Perhaps the closest thing to a so called unicorn bike would be a modern interpretation of an XT 500, sadly Yamaha decided to make a retro SR 400, reviving the SR 500 instead, but the XT 500 came first. Back in the 1980's there was little to choose from, today the market is flooded with options, few of which actually meet the requirements, this perhaps makes the CRF 300 a logical choice for a basic platform, capable of doing what is actually needed, without adding mass to the equation.
Must've been a great time when you travelled all those kilometres. No internet, no social media. Today I think it has become more of a race to put out content on social media than really enjoying the riding and exploring of places. And owning the motorcycle, gear from the same brand, luggage from another brand to signify status than usability.
Given that the CB500X engine+transmission weighs only 9kg more than the CRF250L engine+transmission, some enterprising shop should be making custom CRF500L's like Andy Scutt did. There are articles online explaining what he had to do.
Yes, I am very interested in attempting that project myself. I have been in contact with Andy, who happily passed on all of the details about parts and engineering. It could be a future Shonky Project. How good would it be if Honda, or as you suggested, a custom builder producing them.
@@ShonkyProductions Wow - that is awesome news! :) Another avenue I'm going to try: a friend has got a collection of vintage Honda bikes going back to the 60s. Going to look through them to see if there are any air-cooled twin drivetrains (in the 300-450cc range) that may fit into the standard engine cradle of the CRF250L frame.
Ive always wondered why a custom build isnt picking up in this huge gap in the market. Slotting something more powerful into lets say a himmy. The possibilities are endless Id love to see an old 500 twin as an adv
I ride a 2009 f800gs and for me is a light weight alternative touring bike at 454lbs, I also have the 300l that I love on the trails and short distance, I think that as long as the bike is used for it's intended purpose, and if you're honest with your own capabilities then the adventure bikes are perfectly fine for what they are Cheers from USA
I have always thought of the term 'weight' in relation to power more than mass. It is a more accurate representation between the different variants. So midweights have power around 90-100hp and heavyweights are from 110+hp
Whole range of bike sizes and power. Where do you want to ride? I have a 250 that I love in town and very short trips but is too slow on the highway. My 400 is a little better and not a lit heavier. For highway cruising at high speeds carrying everything a Gold Wing works. I'm now looking for a nuce Tiger 800.
@Shonky Productions I ride a well sorted and adventurized ktm 525. Fully loaded with camping gear and 19 litres of fuel weighs in at 148 kgs. Does that mean I ride a featherweight or a bantam weight
Manufacturers are using the term loosely as it sounds better, but they also publish bike specifications with wet and dry weights. They are not trying to convince you it is a literal 'mid-weight', it just sounds better than 'mid capacity'. I don't think its a fair argument to compare it to boxing, and then call it a 'scam'.
well you got one thing right, your channel name, definately shonky info. In my 45 years of riding I've never seen or heard a manufacturer refer to their bike by weight, only by size i.e mid-size. You failed to mention exactly where the weight is carried on these mid-sized bikes, the KTM890 for example rides much lighter than it's 210kg wet weight due to it's low CoG which is helped by saddle bag style fuel cells. by contrast one of the most popular mid-sized bikes the V-Strom 650 comes in at a hefty 216kg & carries it's weight high up on the bars, giving the bike a much heavier feel to manoeuvre. overall weight means bugger all, it's where a bike carries that weight that matters
So much BS! How can you go out and make a video and not research for 5 minutes?? And almost no one is calling you out? I actually had to look up your channel to see if this was just satire or if you just cant see beyond your own bias. so here are a few mistakes: -the 300 rally is 153, but you clearly put it at 150 to make it look better. With every outher bike you put it on the exact spot. In hindsight this was the first waring sign that this would be an opinion piece about YOUR crf 300 and how you made the right decision -why choose the old 1200 GS and compare it to modern bikes? And then the bigges joke of all: the GS is 229 but you say 220 and then you go on and put it at like 211. The GS is almost placed 20 kg wrong -and then you use the modern 850 gs fully knowing the 800 gs was much lighter at 209-213kg and you also placed it wrong, but from here on out I will just assume you placed the 1200 correct -the 890 is almost the same weight as the tiger, you are off by about 5kg also you never mentioned cog which is a huge miss in my book I find it shocking that a video with so much missinformation is still up after 11 months all while claiming to be more objective than the manufacturers while simoustanly spreading even more BS than them! (If you think I am mad because he insulted a bike of mine: no, I ride a 2001 sv 650 s. I just hate so much blatant, uncorrected misinformation with a passion)
100 to 180kg is comparable IMO, everything over 180kg just feels heavy to me, and dangerous offroad to me. I went from a KLR650, to a Husqvarna TE510, to a KTM500, anything heavier than a KLR650 would just feel like a more road oriented bike for me personally.
As the owner of an Xt600 have to agree, I drive at allroad (sand/gravel) by true offroad is just a pain its Like 170kg. Yeah certain pros can do it but the average person can't
It's hard to get past the scale you've used for weight and how you divided it up. What are these 100kg "Adventure Bikes"? You've skewed the scale very poorly. The Rally 300 is 153kg so it's actually a "mid-weight" by your reasoning. A current model BMW 1250GS Adventure is a more relevant comparison to everything else here to be declared a proper heavy weight, rightly so, at 268kg. Correct those errors and I think bikes sold as mid-weight will be actually in the middle. Shonky indeed :)
The real problem here is displacement creep. Bigger engine means more material which means more weight. Let's not forget all the electronics to make these bigger bikes rideable. They add weight.
Totally agree. That's why I ended up with DR650, the true midweight adv bike (166 kg wet). The only wish left is to replace 650cc single by 600cc twin with ~55 bhp preserving the weight, that'd make DR the best! Too bad Suzuki didn't come up with that...
@@jameshind6644 KTMs provide certainly better power/weight ratio and way better factory suspension, they're fun to ride, but they're nightmare from maintenance perspective which makes them unwanted for any serious adventure trips like TAT.
@@Alex_556 you are obviously talking about the enduro models. The 701 has service intervals of 6200miles/10000km.more than enough to do a TaT. Every bike has issues for example try getting to the T7 spark plugs.It’s a major exercise and not something you would want to do off road. You pay your money and make your choice at the end of the day.
@@jameshind6644 To me, 690/701 are like my WR450F on steroids. A lot of fun on single tracks but awful for 8-10 hours riding, especially for many days in a row. Too radical. Younger riders may have different opinion though :) Needless to mention the price. All I am trying to say is that on today's market mid size became too big and too close to the full size. It's ok for 80% pavement style but for some of us who prefers 70% dirt and became too old to wrestle 500+lbs loaded bike through lose rocks and deep sand, there is not much alternatives. I am traveling solo most of the time and don't want to make a big deal from picking up the bike. DR650 fits my bill almost perfectly - it's about 400 lbs loaded with all the luggage, has comfy seat and enough power, very simple, very good on dirt and adequate on highways, the only wish left is to have a modern 270 degree parallel twin probably 500cc instead of this big thumper in order to lower the vibrations. Too bad the manufacturers decided to ignore this market segment.
@@jameshind6644 dr650 not an adv bike? By what metric? I’ve ridden mine on 4 BDR’s and an xt250 on 1… and people have used both to travel around the world. On the other hand I know a lot of so called adv bikes that never flex off the pavement.
Isn't the weight measured by the CC of bike rather than by the physical weight, so a midlewight would be 500 - 900, while a heavyweight would be 900 -1600 and a lightweight would be below 500. That's how I've always interpreted it rather than by the physical weight
Manufacturers give them a label you disagree with, you give them another label. What for? Am I going to buy a bike because someone gave it a label, or stuck it in an artificial category? Am I now going to buy a CRF because it's in an "acceptable" group? Or am I going to buy a bike which best fits what I want from a bike, which will be compromised in all areas like everything is? I actually bought my bike because 7 is my lucky number so there :)
Be honest about what you want you will actually do with your bike. I take my big, heavy pig of a Super Ténéré off road as often as possible. I don’t go on narly hills or single track (not that there’s much around), because I don’t want to break anything. I use it to explore the miles of open forrest roads and trails where I live (occasionally a dirtbike track). Unfortunately, (or fortunately), there is usually 60 or so miles (100km) separating me and these off road options. I also live near endless paved twisty roads. So, while my eyes may grow wide at owning a more capable light weight bike, it would make travel to the fun bits that much less comfortable and enjoyable. My bike is a compromise, like almost everything in life.
The sweet spot on weight has a few factors, 1 being your own weight. 2 center of gravity. 3 power to weight ratio. 4 what purpose of use. You don’t want to high or light weight for street or to low for off road. Figure out use and maybe trick out a bike with suspension travel & power for all a round ride.
D'ya reckon some 50/50 tyres would turn my 285 kg R1100RT into an adv bike? It's seen a lot of gravel roads, more than a few hilly paddocks, and forded a few streams in its time, all on sport touring road tyres.
Why is your scale starting from 100kg? Give me one example of an adventure bike that weights in at 100 kg! Right, you can’t, because those 100-120kg bikes are not adventure bikes, they are enduro bikes! The scale should be from 150kg (CRF300L Rally) to 250kg (1250 GS, H-D Pan America etc). This means that middle weight is in the whereabouts of 180-220kg. If you compare them to dual sports and full blood enduro bikes, then yes, the middle weight adventure bikes are heavy. But so is a german shepherd compared to a dachshund, that doesn’t mean that the german shepherd is overweight, it is just a different breed!
@@ShonkyProductions a KTM 500 is an enduro bike. Of course you can rebuild into anything you like. I can buy an 70kg 50cc moped, put some luggage on it and call it an adventure bike, but is it really? My point being, when doing a comparison like this you have to draw the line somewhere, the KTM 500 does not count as an adventure bike, because it isn’t one out of the factory.
@@ShonkyProductions Benelli TRK 502. Japanese quality. Italian design. Chinese price =60% of Jap. Selling well in Europe. Not in USA yet. They have just come out with an 800. The Chinese are coming - sooner than we think!
@@joakimf4868 You're dead right anything can be an adventure bike. The question is, how limited are you in what adventures you can have? A scooter is limited in where it can go by its wheel size and lack of power. A big GS is limited in where it can go by its sheer weight and size. An enduro bike is far less limited than either. So yeah, I'd call it a better adventure bike simply coz you can do more on it. Don't really care what the factory calls it. Now, you can make some tradeoffs so you can carry more luggage, take a passenger, be more comfortable on long highway miles, and then a big ADV makes a lot of sense. I have one myself. But no way do I kid myself that tooling down a manicured piece of gravel is more "adventurous" than some mad bugger blazing a new trail on his dirt bike, just coz my bike is supposedly an ADV and his is an "enduro".
@@jaimemetcher388 you kind of understood me wrong, I would never call a moped or scooter an adventure bike. An adventure bike is an (on some level) offroad-capable roadbike. I was questioning Shonky when he was reffering to tricked out enduro bikes as adventure bikes.
I’m riding a varadero 1000XL at the moment and have tried riding and manoeuvring my dads GS1200. Due to its lower centre of gravity, it feels much easier to move around etc, but still heavy. Compared to a tiger 800 I just tried, it’s just night and day. It’s light but more importantly it’s much smaller. The weight thing is just an easy way to describe it and it makes total sense to me as someone who needs a mid sized bike as a middleweight person.
Also people need to look carefully on the actual on road weight. Many companies like KTM state weights with the bikes completely dry. No oil, coolant and I think even fork and shock oils or fuel. Spec sheet weights should be standardized!
I agree, but what are the existing midweight bikes out there? KTM 390......... and? I own a great CRF 300 Rally because I miss a pleasing and slightly more powerfull bike in that +-160 kg range.
Yes, there isn't really anything in that category beside the KTM 390. We were waiting to see what the KTM490 would be, but now that has been cancelled.
@@ShonkyProductions If Yamaha started making the 1979 IT400F, with no changes, it would sell like hot cakes! And be as fast, and a better hill climber than all this modern over-teched junk! Who needs a radiator on an off-road bike!
Why do you start at lightweight, skip fly, featherweight and only restrict middleweight to a 20kg range while lightweight gets a 150kg range? So weird.
Mid weight starts before the industry developed the parallel motors, was the single or large displacement. And they keep using for market purposes. Mid weight bikes are: Yamaha Tenere 700: 205 kg Bmw G650gs: 192 kg Suzuki Dr 650: 166 kg You welcome. 😂
2018 vstrom 1000 weighs less than the 2024 vstrom 800… cb500x isn’t a middleweight? This video honestly makes a great point. It really is just marketing
I like to use the term for all 200kg plus bikes as whales, anything heavier than a 690/701 is to heavy for me unless its just a black top tourer, anyone want to buy an AT
I am amazed how many of us middle-aged guys fell for the “dream”! These clever marketing guys seem to have found a way to get us coming and going. Is it because we’re trying to replace/buy time with hard-earned money? After many bikes (and a bruised ego! 😅) I am also in the process of down-sizing a bit ashamed of myself for having walked so willfully in the trap!
Me too.. I dreamed of owning a big BMW GS.. I eventually bought an R1150GS had it for yesrs then traded it for the upgraded R1200GS Adventure with the 30L petrol tank.. That was a big bike.. After having an accident on it 12 years ago I traded it for a "normal" R1200GS then after a few years it started to dawn on me "why the hell am I always riding these ginormous bikes.." So I sold it privately and bought two bikes.. An 06 F650GS that I can use when I go camping.. And a Royal Enfield Classic 500.. Both a lot lighter and more manageable than any of the big GS bikes I had.. The Royal Enfield is my most favourite bike of the two though.. For some reason it reminds me of my old Honda CB125N that I started out on.. A simple bike that runs on the smell of an oily rag and is so easy to ride without all the bells, whistles and fangles.. It doesn't even have a tacho or trip meter...
I blamed Honda with it's Gold Wing; they started it. The whole make a leather chair into a motorcycle craze. Then HD followed suite. BMW didn't start the craze, they just followed where the marketing people told them the buyers where at. Apparently, there are a lot of people who want a sofa sized motorcycle that weighs 1/2 ton and rides like a Mercedes E class. Fort9 has a hilarious video on the topic.
Id still prefer a Turaeg or Africa Twin over a full dress GS 1250 Adventure and am glad bikes exist in that segment. If you want to be able to travel safely on American highways where 80-85mph is normal traffic speeds but still hit rougher trails they definitely have a purpose despite marketing mysticism. They definitely carry their weights differently
I’d actually disagree with the weight divisions here. How many bikes weigh under 125kg set up for Adv wet weight? Even 300-500 trail/enduros push past 125kh when actually set up for Adv. I’d personally look at the divisions being 125-175kg 176-225kg 226kg+ With that being said the likes of 300s, KTM/Husky 500s and 690s are LW Adv. DRs, Tiger, Himalayan, KTM 890/Husky 901 are MW Adv then your 226kg+ monsters are HWs. In short there are definitely bikes being pushed as MW I’d definitely class as HW but generally must do indeed, to me at least, fall into the right brackets. It also pushed the likes of 500 Enduros and 690s back where they belong as LW Adv vs being compared to 220kg + wet weight MWs. Bikes like KTM 690/Husky 701 are not MW as far as I am concerned.
I like you interesting approach. I absolutely dislike heavy bikes for the dirt. I feel that 200-220 is a fair weight to still take in the dirt. I wouldn't do it but in the interest of fairness, I can accept those bikes. At least they aren't tanks...
Mid size bikes aren’t a scam. Your facts are off. Current GSA is closer to 270kg. A KTM 890 is 210kg, A KLR 650 is 207kg, and a CRF450X is 125kg. There is definitely a midsize class and it’s one of the most popular for a reason. A dirt bike will not fair well at all on a 400 mile day. And a GSA does not do well on technical off road. 800cc-1000cc is a good sweet spot if you are looking to travel distance on and off road. No bad bikes though. They just each have their trade offs.
in spanish we call them mid-range, not mid weight. And all up from 800 is not mid for me... cb500x open this market in 2013, obviously rivals launched more power and cc, but starts to loose logic ( except tuareg). I think actuall "mid" is the small version of the big ones of each mark: ktm 1290...ktm890, gs1200...gs800, africa twin...transalp, etc.
Thanks for your enlightening, indeed marketeers love to sell us the heaviest possible motorcycle, obviously more Dollars or Euros per kilogram... a new generation of capable,supple, all terrain bykes with agile and manageable weight are just being launched, Let's celebrate ! Congratulations for clever tables, comparisons !
30-50 kg lighter than the heaviest of bikes is significantly lighter. Whatever you say. Its weird you choose only a 20 kilogram range that these bikes have to fit within before you call them midweight. Also, if you apply your same logic to mid capacity, it falls over too.
The heaviest bike I've ever ridden was my dad's Honda GL1100, which was like 240kg or so, and I could never imagine taking something that heavy off-road. Especially having ridden bikes like the Husqvarna 510 SM and 310 dirt bike. I'd much rather ride something like a Fantic Caballero 500 off-road than something like the F850gs.
It is not scam. The definition of weight class is not defined anywhere. You must make the difference between, dual sport, and adventure bikes, then differentiate from single cylinder, and multiple cylinder. Everyone has access to the specs, and even then you should ride the bike. For example the Tenere 700 is light, but feels top heavy, HEAVY. Much more than the Aprilia Tuareg. And in the end, you choose the bike that suits your needs. There will always be compromises. There is no trickery involved. As you said, just do your research, know your needs, and capabilities.
Well the middleweight class is based on the engine capacity and power/performance not the actual weight of the bike..... you as well as most people clearly don't understand this term.
And remember guys, don’t be fooled also by the weight of the motorcycle written on Spec Sheets. Be sure to look for the Wet Weight not the Dry weight, because after all you need that gas inside the tank to get along, don’t you.
Anything over 750cc was consider a large bike 30+ years ago. It's all marketing by the spin doctors , to sell more expensive bikes. The 450-650 bikes are lacking in choice
Yamaha T7... 205 kg. IMHO: Close enough to the middle. Based on your 'mid' weights... Honda 300 (which is really a D/S bike), KTM 390A, BMW 310GS, then closer to the top... Yamaha T7, Honda CB500x, Aprilla 660. Then there are a bunch of other D/S bikes (usually lighter)... Suzuki DR 650, KTM 500exc, KTM 350exc, KTM 690 Enduro, old Yamaha WR250R. (Better dirt, less highway). For me an 'adventure bike'... 1) Ability to go a day-long run on a 65 mph highway in relative safety and comfort. 2) Ability (in the USA anyway) to handle a fairly rough Forest Service or BLM Road safely. That's about it for a developed world... 'adventure bike'. That's all that most people would ever do.
There aren't many true midweights. KTM640 adventure, XT660R, DR650 maybe? Wish there were some new ones to choose from. I currently ride a modified tenere 660 to fulfil my "midweight" needs but it's still on the heavy side.
I think a lot of people buy "Adventure" bikes in the same way people buy 4WD's. Overestimating their offroad usage. Most do 95% on road, 5 off. End up being mallcrawlers. I kept that in mind when choosing between the KTM 1290 SAS and R. I ride 5-6 days a week commuting 50 klicks to work, sensible choice was the S. It can tour no problems at all. In the garage, for days when I want to go bush, is a tiny little drz250.
In my opinion, 200kg is fat for roadbikes, let alone adv bikes that should be lighter. My last two roadbikes weighed under 190, and were easily capable of go directly to gaol speeds if the rider was so inclined. My adv bike started life at 166kg, and tbh, as a solo rider, I'd like it lighter still.
I have plenty of videos on how I've modified my CRF 300 Rally and many more on the adventures I've had on it. I would suggest that on a dollar per adventure scale, I am way out in front. Can I ask what you ride, how much you have spent on it and how many adventures you've had on it in the last 12 months?
To be fair, much of the money Shonky has spent has been making the bike competition-ready, not simple adventure. I paid US$4200 for my 250 Rally, brand new, and spent $900 on the suspension, and that's it. Tyres of course come and go, they're a wear item, not a mod.
Totally agree ... while the same applies to sport's bikes. Do we need a bike that cam do 300 kph ? For sure no. I have a GS1250 that I use 90% on road, 5% on gravel road and 5% on a little bit more sandy. If i only would do adventure amd off-road i would chose the CRF300F or something.
Here’s progress for you. A 15 year old F800 GS weighs 185 kg dry with 63 kW. A current T7 weighs 195 kg with 55kW. Marketing terminology has conned lots of people.
You missed the Ducati Scrambler Desert Sled. It is a true middle weight bike with a reasonable seat height. I own it and I own an Aprilia Taureg 660. The Aprilia carries it's weight down low and actually feels lighter than it's true weight. I agree that it probably should not go on much single track, but it is fine on ATV trails.
I left out the Ducati Scrambler because it's not marketed as an adventure bike. I actually think it's a great style of bike. Also, I recently sat on a Aprilia Taureg 660 and the size and weight (just moving it side to side) impressed me. I would love to have a ride on one.
I actually did similar went from a 1200gsa te, to a 1000xt, f800gs, 650xt, then 390 adv for dad and I which were both rejected back to a 1200gs te for 2 months big mistake an for the past few months I've been on a Himalayan ^_^ totally the right move possibly getting a 300 rally for my dad I wish there was more light weight bikes about to choose from.
Talked to 2 Dutchmen in Katherine NT ,Came crosscountry from Holland on First BMW Adventure bikes,or whatever they were called then. Before they were sold in Australia.How did the bikes go? I asked. Anything that weighed 1/2 as much would have been much better was the reply!
Yep your right , I ride a rally 250 , I'm 60 been riding 50 yrs now & alone & love it always want to doit alone, it's that must do it alone thing with me . But if I where a rich man I think I would have a garage full of BMW 1250 ooo yeah😊
And it doesn't end there. 100$ for a shitty little fuel filter, 20$ for o-rings with rectangular cross section etc... (versys-x owner here) Then they don't let you testride the bike before you buy... no stock etc. Started to sample Chinese brands like voge 300 rally.
Your own choice(300 Rally) to use as the "Light Weight" example didn't even make it into the light weight zone so I would say your choice of scale is off by 50kg's. If you use 150kg as the lower end of the scale then all the bikes you've mentioned are middle weights. If a bike lands below the 150kg zone I would be willing to bet there is an argument to be made on whether it is a Dual Sport or an Adventure Bike.
They call them middle weights because they make between 60 and 110hp, and that's much less than the heavy weights that do up to 160hp, still, i rather have less hp but a much nimbler bike, than a heavier one with way more power to control.
Weight in the bikes is about engine size and not its weight. Light weight is 50cc-500cc. mid weight is 600cc to 1000cc and everything over is heavy. Simple.
But why say "Weight" ? You are only quoting what the manufacturers feed us. Please EXPLAIN how "Weight" equals "Engine Size"? Why not say Small capacity, Mid capacity and large Capacity... That would "Simple"
@@ShonkyProductions I think it goes back in to the road racing. You have 3 classes, light, mid and heavy, just like boxing. Diference is they are applying it in to the engine size and not the weight of the motorcycle, since some 1000cc bikes are almost the same as 600cc in the weight. So they had to draw the line somwhere, now you see some superbikes actually adding weight to be legal in the races.
When I consider "middle weight" I'm less fixated on weight and more emphasis on engine displacement..
You and everyone else except the video author.
The weight of the BMW 850 GS blows my mind. I never thought it would be so heavy.
I thought the Royal Enfield Himalayan would be lighter than my 06 BMW F650GS but was shocked that its almost 25kg heavier.. Thats changed my mind about getting one... Ill keep my aging BMW...
Especially compared to what they used to weigh. There's a reason I got a used F650GS twin for touring. At under 200kg fully filled up this does fit on the upper scale of midweight and well below what most current bikes in this range weigh. "Light" enough so I as a normal man can pick it up - I wouldn't want a heavier bike than that and don't like the direction the market is going weight-wise.
A friend who's 5'4 recently bought the F850 GSA. Even with the low seat he tiptoes. And it weighs almost as much as the bigger 1250. It's insanely heavy. But brand value and happiness of acquiring a big bike overrules sensible decisions.
2 other friends convinced him even though I who has done the most adventure riding was against it. But unlike me these guys will mostly ride on highways on the weekends and maybe an annual ride for a week. So guess it's ok.
@@sirgalah561 I miss my old thumper, it was what I learned on. The old 650GSs were great bikes.
@@Whatreally123 it's peer pressure, cannot be around with group of friends with a motorcycle that's smaller than theirs..
I totally agree. Motorbike companies find favourable grounds to push their products among reviewers either magazine or online. For me, everything approaching 200Kg is "heavy weight ADV bike", because you also have to add luggage and petrol to have an adventure. That is why I chose a KTM 500 EXC all prepped up 😃
I agree, 200kg (and anything close to it) is a heavy weight bike. More and more people are beginning to understand that and, as such, are looking for better options. It sounds like your KTM 500 is a great light weight adventure bike.
@@ShonkyProductions I am about to use it for a Round Africa trip 😁
@@gianlucajandelli6387 Awesome! Have a great trip.
@@ShonkyProductions He will do it easily in the 500. Best lightweight dirt tourer ever made.
@@gianlucajandelli6387 what about service intervals for your 500?
This rings so true, and is something I've been saying for literally 10 years or more. Way back when, and before I knew any better, I did a LOT of "research" and ended up deciding on a 2010 F800GS because I wanted a "lighter" ADV bike. Man was I shocked when I tried to take that thing off road. It was horrendous LOL. I blamed myself for not being a good rider, because the bike was obviously not the problem.
13 years and a lot of humility later - and I'm riding - a CRF300L. I wonder how many riders have been scared away from this wonderful sport because marketing is bullshit?
Yes, it's easy to understand how people get sucked into buying a bike that may not suit their needs.
@@ShonkyProductions In 1980 when BMW released the GS it was 800cc.
I just saw that the 2023 is going to be 1,300cc - Madness!
The advertising people have won the race here! Gotta have the biggest one!
Years ago I went on an adventure rally with a mob of people.. I was riding a KLR600 and I crashed it.. Not badly but bad enough that I didnt want to continue - I was exhausted trying to manhandle that thing around... My mate rocked up on his Yamaha XT250 and said we should swap bikes to get me back to the start.. So we did.. He had a hoot on my bike as it was more powerful than his, and I had a hoot on his bike because it was a lot lighter than mine.. The difference was our riding experience.. I ride a lot of roads with a pinch of gravel road riding without anything too technical.. My mate used to race enduro bikes when he was a young bloke.. So I think everything boils down to a riders experience vs the choice of bike.. And the weight of the thing too... I currently ride an 06 BMW F650GS after having a number of R1200GS bikes and decided that lighter is better (unlike all my other biker mates that reckon I should get the next biggest thing)...
You know, another massive factor in all this is just price. Not just up front price, but the cost of ownership of a peice of equipment you plan on putting through hell. Anybody that really uses something knows they are going to beat it up on the daily. How much are the plastics when you drop and break the GS1250? I stick to my KLR and DRZ. One is for dirt, one is for gravel/road. Both cheap as hell.
@@ShonkyProductionswhat do you think about the 300 rally i dual sport it most of the time but what about going cross country
This entire video appeared to be one man's mission against a categorisation structure that literally no one else cared about 😂
You’ve set the Upper Limit for a lightweight adventure bike at 150kg. Yet below this you are really looking at enduro bikes. These are not adventure bikes, they don’t do the touring part well at all.
You start with bad assumptions and end up with a bad conclusion.
Great point.. thanks 👍
Single cylinder large duelsports would reach close to 150kg in the 650cc class like the klr or Dr, so 150 is not unrealistic
those are dual sport.. and ppl use them for adv around the world. he has a good point, they are all around 200kg plus.
What I’d like to know is why the hell do bikes just keep getting heavier? My 1998 Yamaha TTR250r weighed 124kg wet, the CRF 300L is 140kg. Is this really progress? Even my current bike (DRZ400) is 138kg and it was designed 2 decades ago. In ten years time we’ll have a CRF 350L that weighs 160kg and it will be considered “light weight”.
Things like ABS and bigger, steel fuel tanks can be some of the factors... but you are right in asking why?
The TTR had a steel tank. Must be the water cooling, ABS, EFI and a really heavy 6th gear. Technology is really making life easier aye 😉
Emissions regulations force manufacturers to strangle and restrict flow and power, so to just keep same specs each new bike, they need to add cc.
@@Scarletpimp72 Yes, I never thought of it like that.
Good quality recycled Chinese steel is heavy..
My rule has always been never buy a bike I can't pickup by myself (went with a DRZ). There's nothing more pathetic than a guy who needs help to pickup his overweight bike due to his ego being stronger than his physical condition.
I'm an Aussie postie and used to ride a Honda NBC110 till they took them away and replaced them with the Kyburz electric three wheelers.. So I went and bought my own postie bike (a CT110).. I love my postie bike that I use to go do the shopping.. I'm thinking of going camping on the thing.. I rode one at work which I'd done for 13 years, so I reckon riding my own postie bike off road is going to be fun...
You will enjoy every moment!!!
My wife's rule.. She never rides a bike that I can't pick up. 😄😆😄
And to add the people who pack up their entire houses on a motorcycle and go on "adventures". 🤦🤷
Good luck riding a 3 day trip on DRZ400 I will take the GS1250
Good point. Last year I had the F750GS that weighed close to 240 kg with the crash bars, etc. And with the (nice and convenient) hard cases it was into the R1250gs territory. Proved too heavy and combersom for me. Sold it and upgraded to CB300R and changed few things so I can travel and ride on gravel roads. Very happy.
I was liking bikes with 190kg range , royal enfield 450/triumph scram400X but due to my short height i wanted to light weight bike under 160kg and only available bike in that weight category is cb300r .
What changes have you done to your cb300r for making it offroad efficient .
Please do share .
I think the real sweet spot is the 500exc/690 enduro/701/501. Those bikes seem to make great adventure bikes, especially when they're built out. Not a huge fan of the price tag though. Been happy with my CRF250L Rally
2nd hand big ktm are great, got my 500 at 2 year old and 2kmiles on the clock for 4.5k GBP less than shop, nearly half price - brand new bike in reality and a f'in weapon, light, fast and will go anywhere
@@ogasi1798 funny you reply to this now. I've got a deal in place to get a 701 in the coming weeks :)
Well if mid weights should be in the middle of mid then light weights should be in the middle of light weight, such as your bike, which isnt.
For true adventure riding light weight is a definite advantage, wrestling a heavy machine in tough conditions would be a nightmare. Too many inexperienced riders focus on the speed a larger bike is capable of, this is of little importance unless its a race, which an adventure should not be.
In countries where motorcycle capacities are lower, the other road users, specifically cars, don't expect the speed differential which is particularly dangerous, not to mention animals on the roadside. Travelling at lower speeds in unfamiliar locations greatly reduces the potential for an accident, if an accident should occur, the severity of of potential injury is equally reduced.
Many tend to carry way too much luggage, this only magnifies the problem, somehow I managed to travel over 300 000 km, mostly in third world countries with a maximum additional load of less than 20kg, my rain gear was garbage bags and insulation tape. During that time, 1980's and 1990's, there were no electronic gadgets to further compliicate things, it was the most rewarding time of my life, adventure riding in its basic form.
Keeping it simple makes it more rewarding, in my opinion naturally, engine capacity is largely irrelevant, there are those who managed with 90 cc that I met along the way, my choice was a Yamaha XT 500, which is amazingly similar to my current Honda CRF 250 l in terms of feel, albeit without the low revving torque. Perhaps the closest thing to a so called unicorn bike would be a modern interpretation of an XT 500, sadly Yamaha decided to make a retro SR 400, reviving the SR 500 instead, but the XT 500 came first.
Back in the 1980's there was little to choose from, today the market is flooded with options, few of which actually meet the requirements, this perhaps makes the CRF 300 a logical choice for a basic platform, capable of doing what is actually needed, without adding mass to the equation.
Must've been a great time when you travelled all those kilometres. No internet, no social media.
Today I think it has become more of a race to put out content on social media than really enjoying the riding and exploring of places. And owning the motorcycle, gear from the same brand, luggage from another brand to signify status than usability.
Given that the CB500X engine+transmission weighs only 9kg more than the CRF250L engine+transmission, some enterprising shop should be making custom CRF500L's like Andy Scutt did. There are articles online explaining what he had to do.
Yes, I am very interested in attempting that project myself. I have been in contact with Andy, who happily passed on all of the details about parts and engineering. It could be a future Shonky Project.
How good would it be if Honda, or as you suggested, a custom builder producing them.
@@ShonkyProductions Wow - that is awesome news! :) Another avenue I'm going to try: a friend has got a collection of vintage Honda bikes going back to the 60s. Going to look through them to see if there are any air-cooled twin drivetrains (in the 300-450cc range) that may fit into the standard engine cradle of the CRF250L frame.
@@suzyamerica4679 A Honda 305 might be a good choice. I had 68 350, but think the 305's were better.
@@johncoleman1935 Good info & thanks!
Ive always wondered why a custom build isnt picking up in this huge gap in the market. Slotting something more powerful into lets say a himmy. The possibilities are endless Id love to see an old 500 twin as an adv
Ktm 690 and Husky 701, theres your middle weights 😅, or by boxing scale, welter weights. Power around the Aprilla, but 40kg ish lighter 😁
I ride a 2009 f800gs and for me is a light weight alternative touring bike at 454lbs, I also have the 300l that I love on the trails and short distance, I think that as long as the bike is used for it's intended purpose, and if you're honest with your own capabilities then the adventure bikes are perfectly fine for what they are
Cheers from USA
I have always thought of the term 'weight' in relation to power more than mass. It is a more accurate representation between the different variants.
So midweights have power around 90-100hp and heavyweights are from 110+hp
Whole range of bike sizes and power. Where do you want to ride? I have a 250 that I love in town and very short trips but is too slow on the highway. My 400 is a little better and not a lit heavier. For highway cruising at high speeds carrying everything a Gold Wing works. I'm now looking for a nuce Tiger 800.
Nice one Shonky, and thanks for helping push my bike out of the rut on the weekend. Cheers
Hi Darren, happy to help any fellow adventure rider 👍
@Shonky Productions I ride a well sorted and adventurized ktm 525. Fully loaded with camping gear and 19 litres of fuel weighs in at 148 kgs. Does that mean I ride a featherweight or a bantam weight
@@terrydrew6245 that sounds like an awesome setup.
So Shonky, does that make the CRF 300L Rally, a light middle weight adventure bike? 😜
Great presentation, How interesting that the mid capacity bikes weigh more than my R1100GS from 1998....but they now have the same power.
Your GS was 800cc when it came out in 1980 Rob.
Manufacturers are using the term loosely as it sounds better, but they also publish bike specifications with wet and dry weights. They are not trying to convince you it is a literal 'mid-weight', it just sounds better than 'mid capacity'. I don't think its a fair argument to compare it to boxing, and then call it a 'scam'.
so what bikes are in that actually middle weight range?
well you got one thing right, your channel name, definately shonky info. In my 45 years of riding I've never seen or heard a manufacturer refer to their bike by weight, only by size i.e mid-size. You failed to mention exactly where the weight is carried on these mid-sized bikes, the KTM890 for example rides much lighter than it's 210kg wet weight due to it's low CoG which is helped by saddle bag style fuel cells. by contrast one of the most popular mid-sized bikes the V-Strom 650 comes in at a hefty 216kg & carries it's weight high up on the bars, giving the bike a much heavier feel to manoeuvre. overall weight means bugger all, it's where a bike carries that weight that matters
Well said. I love the T7 but it’s still 205 kilos. I’m leaning toward the DR650 at 166 kilos.
Yes... the T7 is a great bike, but as you said, it's still over 200kg. A lot of people ride DR650's and for good reason.
The T7 is an adventure bike, while the DR650 is a dual sport.
The T7 is the next bike on my list, I'm okay with its weight.
@@cobrin6437 I’m having a difficult time deciding between the two. I test rode a T7 and it was glorious
@@joakimf4868 The advertising peopel have forgot "Dual Sports" - unfashionable - gotta be an "Adventure".
great video! thank you! I was looking for mid weight but might change my mind now
Smart video! The KTM 500cc twin was the real deal for mid-weight ADV... But the cancel the proyect! Too bad!
So much BS! How can you go out and make a video and not research for 5 minutes?? And almost no one is calling you out? I actually had to look up your channel to see if this was just satire or if you just cant see beyond your own bias.
so here are a few mistakes:
-the 300 rally is 153, but you clearly put it at 150 to make it look better. With every outher bike you put it on the exact spot. In hindsight this was the first waring sign that this would be an opinion piece about YOUR crf 300 and how you made the right decision
-why choose the old 1200 GS and compare it to modern bikes? And then the bigges joke of all: the GS is 229 but you say 220 and then you go on and put it at like 211. The GS is almost placed 20 kg wrong
-and then you use the modern 850 gs fully knowing the 800 gs was much lighter at 209-213kg and you also placed it wrong, but from here on out I will just assume you placed the 1200 correct
-the 890 is almost the same weight as the tiger, you are off by about 5kg
also you never mentioned cog which is a huge miss in my book
I find it shocking that a video with so much missinformation is still up after 11 months all while claiming to be more objective than the manufacturers while simoustanly spreading even more BS than them!
(If you think I am mad because he insulted a bike of mine: no, I ride a 2001 sv 650 s. I just hate so much blatant, uncorrected misinformation with a passion)
100 to 180kg is comparable IMO, everything over 180kg just feels heavy to me, and dangerous offroad to me. I went from a KLR650, to a Husqvarna TE510, to a KTM500, anything heavier than a KLR650 would just feel like a more road oriented bike for me personally.
As the owner of an Xt600 have to agree, I drive at allroad (sand/gravel) by true offroad is just a pain its Like 170kg. Yeah certain pros can do it but the average person can't
It's hard to get past the scale you've used for weight and how you divided it up. What are these 100kg "Adventure Bikes"? You've skewed the scale very poorly. The Rally 300 is 153kg so it's actually a "mid-weight" by your reasoning. A current model BMW 1250GS Adventure is a more relevant comparison to everything else here to be declared a proper heavy weight, rightly so, at 268kg. Correct those errors and I think bikes sold as mid-weight will be actually in the middle. Shonky indeed :)
Missmatcher!
The real problem here is displacement creep. Bigger engine means more material which means more weight. Let's not forget all the electronics to make these bigger bikes rideable. They add weight.
Are people not missing the point, I know it says “mid weight” but does it not mean mid power in affect?
Totally agree. That's why I ended up with DR650, the true midweight adv bike (166 kg wet). The only wish left is to replace 650cc single by 600cc twin with ~55 bhp preserving the weight, that'd make DR the best! Too bad Suzuki didn't come up with that...
Dr650 is a dual sport not an adventure bike. Did you forget about the Ktm690/701 which is lighter and has more power.
@@jameshind6644 KTMs provide certainly better power/weight ratio and way better factory suspension, they're fun to ride, but they're nightmare from maintenance perspective which makes them unwanted for any serious adventure trips like TAT.
@@Alex_556 you are obviously talking about the enduro models. The 701 has service intervals of 6200miles/10000km.more than enough to do a TaT. Every bike has issues for example try getting to the T7 spark plugs.It’s a major exercise and not something you would want to do off road. You pay your money and make your choice at the end of the day.
@@jameshind6644 To me, 690/701 are like my WR450F on steroids. A lot of fun on single tracks but awful for 8-10 hours riding, especially for many days in a row. Too radical. Younger riders may have different opinion though :) Needless to mention the price. All I am trying to say is that on today's market mid size became too big and too close to the full size. It's ok for 80% pavement style but for some of us who prefers 70% dirt and became too old to wrestle 500+lbs loaded bike through lose rocks and deep sand, there is not much alternatives. I am traveling solo most of the time and don't want to make a big deal from picking up the bike. DR650 fits my bill almost perfectly - it's about 400 lbs loaded with all the luggage, has comfy seat and enough power, very simple, very good on dirt and adequate on highways, the only wish left is to have a modern 270 degree parallel twin probably 500cc instead of this big thumper in order to lower the vibrations. Too bad the manufacturers decided to ignore this market segment.
@@jameshind6644 dr650 not an adv bike? By what metric? I’ve ridden mine on 4 BDR’s and an xt250 on 1… and people have used both to travel around the world. On the other hand I know a lot of so called adv bikes that never flex off the pavement.
Isn't the weight measured by the CC of bike rather than by the physical weight, so a midlewight would be 500 - 900, while a heavyweight would be 900 -1600 and a lightweight would be below 500. That's how I've always interpreted it rather than by the physical weight
Thats the confusing bit
Manufacturers give them a label you disagree with, you give them another label.
What for?
Am I going to buy a bike because someone gave it a label, or stuck it in an artificial category?
Am I now going to buy a CRF because it's in an "acceptable" group?
Or am I going to buy a bike which best fits what I want from a bike, which will be compromised in all areas like everything is?
I actually bought my bike because 7 is my lucky number so there :)
Be honest about what you want you will actually do with your bike.
I take my big, heavy pig of a Super Ténéré off road as often as possible. I don’t go on narly hills or single track (not that there’s much around), because I don’t want to break anything. I use it to explore the miles of open forrest roads and trails where I live (occasionally a dirtbike track). Unfortunately, (or fortunately), there is usually 60 or so miles (100km) separating me and these off road options. I also live near endless paved twisty roads. So, while my eyes may grow wide at owning a more capable light weight bike, it would make travel to the fun bits that much less comfortable and enjoyable.
My bike is a compromise, like almost everything in life.
You are spot on well said
The sweet spot on weight has a few factors, 1 being your own weight. 2 center of gravity.
3 power to weight ratio.
4 what purpose of use.
You don’t want to high or light weight for street or to low for off road.
Figure out use and maybe trick out a bike with suspension travel & power for all a round ride.
D'ya reckon some 50/50 tyres would turn my 285 kg R1100RT into an adv bike? It's seen a lot of gravel roads, more than a few hilly paddocks, and forded a few streams in its time, all on sport touring road tyres.
Why is your scale starting from 100kg? Give me one example of an adventure bike that weights in at 100 kg! Right, you can’t, because those 100-120kg bikes are not adventure bikes, they are enduro bikes! The scale should be from 150kg (CRF300L Rally) to 250kg (1250 GS, H-D Pan America etc). This means that middle weight is in the whereabouts of 180-220kg. If you compare them to dual sports and full blood enduro bikes, then yes, the middle weight adventure bikes are heavy. But so is a german shepherd compared to a dachshund, that doesn’t mean that the german shepherd is overweight, it is just a different breed!
What about a KTM500? With a bigger tank and some luggage it would come in under 120kg.
@@ShonkyProductions a KTM 500 is an enduro bike. Of course you can rebuild into anything you like. I can buy an 70kg 50cc moped, put some luggage on it and call it an adventure bike, but is it really? My point being, when doing a comparison like this you have to draw the line somewhere, the KTM 500 does not count as an adventure bike, because it isn’t one out of the factory.
@@ShonkyProductions Benelli TRK 502.
Japanese quality. Italian design. Chinese price =60% of Jap.
Selling well in Europe. Not in USA yet. They have just come out with an 800.
The Chinese are coming - sooner than we think!
@@joakimf4868 You're dead right anything can be an adventure bike. The question is, how limited are you in what adventures you can have? A scooter is limited in where it can go by its wheel size and lack of power. A big GS is limited in where it can go by its sheer weight and size. An enduro bike is far less limited than either. So yeah, I'd call it a better adventure bike simply coz you can do more on it. Don't really care what the factory calls it.
Now, you can make some tradeoffs so you can carry more luggage, take a passenger, be more comfortable on long highway miles, and then a big ADV makes a lot of sense. I have one myself. But no way do I kid myself that tooling down a manicured piece of gravel is more "adventurous" than some mad bugger blazing a new trail on his dirt bike, just coz my bike is supposedly an ADV and his is an "enduro".
@@jaimemetcher388 you kind of understood me wrong, I would never call a moped or scooter an adventure bike. An adventure bike is an (on some level) offroad-capable roadbike. I was questioning Shonky when he was reffering to tricked out enduro bikes as adventure bikes.
I’m riding a varadero 1000XL at the moment and have tried riding and manoeuvring my dads GS1200. Due to its lower centre of gravity, it feels much easier to move around etc, but still heavy. Compared to a tiger 800 I just tried, it’s just night and day. It’s light but more importantly it’s much smaller. The weight thing is just an easy way to describe it and it makes total sense to me as someone who needs a mid sized bike as a middleweight person.
Also people need to look carefully on the actual on road weight. Many companies like KTM state weights with the bikes completely dry. No oil, coolant and I think even fork and shock oils or fuel.
Spec sheet weights should be standardized!
I agree, but what are the existing midweight bikes out there?
KTM 390......... and?
I own a great CRF 300 Rally because I miss a pleasing and slightly more powerfull bike in that +-160 kg range.
Yes, there isn't really anything in that category beside the KTM 390. We were waiting to see what the KTM490 would be, but now that has been cancelled.
@@ShonkyProductions If Yamaha started making the 1979 IT400F, with no changes, it would sell like hot cakes!
And be as fast, and a better hill climber than all this modern over-teched junk! Who needs a radiator on an off-road bike!
you're aware that the boxing classification graph used pounds while your "bike weight classification graph" used kilograms right?
Why do you start at lightweight, skip fly, featherweight and only restrict middleweight to a 20kg range while lightweight gets a 150kg range? So weird.
And now we have Kove 800x pro, 190 kg wet, 96hp.
Thanks for the info You could have filled in the middle with the KLR and such
Mid weight starts before the industry developed the parallel motors, was the single or large displacement. And they keep using for market purposes.
Mid weight bikes are:
Yamaha Tenere 700: 205 kg
Bmw G650gs: 192 kg
Suzuki Dr 650: 166 kg
You welcome. 😂
2018 vstrom 1000 weighs less than the 2024 vstrom 800… cb500x isn’t a middleweight? This video honestly makes a great point. It really is just marketing
I like to use the term for all 200kg plus bikes as whales, anything heavier than a 690/701 is to heavy for me unless its just a black top tourer, anyone want to buy an AT
I am amazed how many of us middle-aged guys fell for the “dream”! These clever marketing guys seem to have found a way to get us coming and going. Is it because we’re trying to replace/buy time with hard-earned money? After many bikes (and a bruised ego! 😅) I am also in the process of down-sizing a bit ashamed of myself for having walked so willfully in the trap!
Me too..
I dreamed of owning a big BMW GS.. I eventually bought an R1150GS had it for yesrs then traded it for the upgraded R1200GS Adventure with the 30L petrol tank.. That was a big bike.. After having an accident on it 12 years ago I traded it for a "normal" R1200GS then after a few years it started to dawn on me "why the hell am I always riding these ginormous bikes.." So I sold it privately and bought two bikes.. An 06 F650GS that I can use when I go camping.. And a Royal Enfield Classic 500.. Both a lot lighter and more manageable than any of the big GS bikes I had.. The Royal Enfield is my most favourite bike of the two though.. For some reason it reminds me of my old Honda CB125N that I started out on.. A simple bike that runs on the smell of an oily rag and is so easy to ride without all the bells, whistles and fangles.. It doesn't even have a tacho or trip meter...
I blamed Honda with it's Gold Wing; they started it. The whole make a leather chair into a motorcycle craze. Then HD followed suite. BMW didn't start the craze, they just followed where the marketing people told them the buyers where at. Apparently, there are a lot of people who want a sofa sized motorcycle that weighs 1/2 ton and rides like a Mercedes E class. Fort9 has a hilarious video on the topic.
"Mid-capacity" relates to load-carrying capability. If you are using an engine displacement range of 500 - 1000cc, how about mid-displacement?
Id still prefer a Turaeg or Africa Twin over a full dress GS 1250 Adventure and am glad bikes exist in that segment. If you want to be able to travel safely on American highways where 80-85mph is normal traffic speeds but still hit rougher trails they definitely have a purpose despite marketing mysticism. They definitely carry their weights differently
Well said, they definitely have their place.
still surprised my xr400 is a lightweight i wouldn't want a heavier bike specially once you start loading it up.
I’d actually disagree with the weight divisions here. How many bikes weigh under 125kg set up for Adv wet weight? Even 300-500 trail/enduros push past 125kh when actually set up for Adv.
I’d personally look at the divisions being
125-175kg
176-225kg
226kg+
With that being said the likes of 300s, KTM/Husky 500s and 690s are LW Adv.
DRs, Tiger, Himalayan, KTM 890/Husky 901 are MW Adv then your 226kg+ monsters are HWs.
In short there are definitely bikes being pushed as MW I’d definitely class as HW but generally must do indeed, to me at least, fall into the right brackets. It also pushed the likes of 500 Enduros and 690s back where they belong as LW Adv vs being compared to 220kg + wet weight MWs. Bikes like KTM 690/Husky 701 are not MW as far as I am concerned.
Any bike over 200kg does not belong off road. Unless your a professional rider
I like you interesting approach. I absolutely dislike heavy bikes for the dirt. I feel that 200-220 is a fair weight to still take in the dirt. I wouldn't do it but in the interest of fairness, I can accept those bikes. At least they aren't tanks...
Maybe the scale should start at 150kg ? Unless you’re into lightweight enduro bikes nothing much is lighter .
It's not about WEIGHT.. bike makers class them in engine displacement. In all my time with bikes I've NEVER considered bikes in weight.
Mid size bikes aren’t a scam. Your facts are off. Current GSA is closer to 270kg. A KTM 890 is 210kg, A KLR 650 is 207kg, and a CRF450X is 125kg. There is definitely a midsize class and it’s one of the most popular for a reason. A dirt bike will not fair well at all on a 400 mile day. And a GSA does not do well on technical off road. 800cc-1000cc is a good sweet spot if you are looking to travel distance on and off road.
No bad bikes though. They just each have their trade offs.
in spanish we call them mid-range, not mid weight. And all up from 800 is not mid for me... cb500x open this market in 2013, obviously rivals launched more power and cc, but starts to loose logic ( except tuareg).
I think actuall "mid" is the small version of the big ones of each mark: ktm 1290...ktm890, gs1200...gs800, africa twin...transalp, etc.
Awesome video. A tuareg 660 with aftermarket exhaust comes in at 199. Woohoo!
Thanks for your enlightening, indeed marketeers love to sell us the heaviest possible motorcycle, obviously more Dollars or Euros per kilogram... a new generation of capable,supple, all terrain bykes with agile and manageable weight are just being launched,
Let's celebrate !
Congratulations for clever tables, comparisons !
Totally agree. Mid size or mid weight adventure bike are still too heavy.
Never judged a bike by its actual weight but by engine cubic capacity to be honest.
Yes, you're probably right about that...
30-50 kg lighter than the heaviest of bikes is significantly lighter. Whatever you say. Its weird you choose only a 20 kilogram range that these bikes have to fit within before you call them midweight. Also, if you apply your same logic to mid capacity, it falls over too.
The heaviest bike I've ever ridden was my dad's Honda GL1100, which was like 240kg or so, and I could never imagine taking something that heavy off-road. Especially having ridden bikes like the Husqvarna 510 SM and 310 dirt bike. I'd much rather ride something like a Fantic Caballero 500 off-road than something like the F850gs.
I never even once thought of middle-weight as describing the weight of the bike, wtf... everyone knows it means around 600cc to 900cc...
Unless they are talking about the size of the bike’s punch and not just it’s “weight”
It is not scam. The definition of weight class is not defined anywhere. You must make the difference between, dual sport, and adventure bikes, then differentiate from single cylinder, and multiple cylinder. Everyone has access to the specs, and even then you should ride the bike. For example the Tenere 700 is light, but feels top heavy, HEAVY. Much more than the Aprilia Tuareg. And in the end, you choose the bike that suits your needs. There will always be compromises. There is no trickery involved. As you said, just do your research, know your needs, and capabilities.
Well the middleweight class is based on the engine capacity and power/performance not the actual weight of the bike..... you as well as most people clearly don't understand this term.
And remember guys, don’t be fooled also by the weight of the motorcycle written on Spec Sheets. Be sure to look for the Wet Weight not the Dry weight, because after all you need that gas inside the tank to get along, don’t you.
Thank u for this video. Marketing hurts people. I would say "u'd better use your brain or sellers will use their ones"
I'm so guilty of this. I promise to endeavour to adopt "mid-capacity" from now on 😅
I was too.... until I looked into it.
When bikes are often 2500cc now what is classified as mid capacity.
Tiger 900 really lighter than a Husky 901 ?
Anything over 750cc was consider a large bike 30+ years ago. It's all marketing by the spin doctors , to sell more expensive bikes. The 450-650 bikes are lacking in choice
Yamaha T7... 205 kg. IMHO: Close enough to the middle.
Based on your 'mid' weights... Honda 300 (which is really a D/S bike), KTM 390A, BMW 310GS, then closer to the top... Yamaha T7, Honda CB500x, Aprilla 660.
Then there are a bunch of other D/S bikes (usually lighter)... Suzuki DR 650, KTM 500exc, KTM 350exc, KTM 690 Enduro, old Yamaha WR250R. (Better dirt, less highway).
For me an 'adventure bike'... 1) Ability to go a day-long run on a 65 mph highway in relative safety and comfort. 2) Ability (in the USA anyway) to handle a fairly rough Forest Service or BLM Road safely. That's about it for a developed world... 'adventure bike'.
That's all that most people would ever do.
I think all adventure bikes are over 200kg anything under 200kg is probably more of a duel sport.
There aren't many true midweights. KTM640 adventure, XT660R, DR650 maybe? Wish there were some new ones to choose from. I currently ride a modified tenere 660 to fulfil my "midweight" needs but it's still on the heavy side.
I think the 850gs feels heavier than the 1200 due to how the weight is distributed
I agree with you there. Engine design has a lot to do with how top heavy a bike feels.
Not just the weight if the motorcycle itself but i see so many people carrying so muh luggage. Its insane.
I think a lot of people buy "Adventure" bikes in the same way people buy 4WD's. Overestimating their offroad usage. Most do 95% on road, 5 off. End up being mallcrawlers. I kept that in mind when choosing between the KTM 1290 SAS and R. I ride 5-6 days a week commuting 50 klicks to work, sensible choice was the S. It can tour no problems at all. In the garage, for days when I want to go bush, is a tiny little drz250.
In my opinion, 200kg is fat for roadbikes, let alone adv bikes that should be lighter. My last two roadbikes weighed under 190, and were easily capable of go directly to gaol speeds if the rider was so inclined.
My adv bike started life at 166kg, and tbh, as a solo rider, I'd like it lighter still.
Lightweight is a 50kg range so the CRF can fit in but mid weight gets a 20kg range? How about a video on how much money and time the CRF owes you?
I have plenty of videos on how I've modified my CRF 300 Rally and many more on the adventures I've had on it. I would suggest that on a dollar per adventure scale, I am way out in front. Can I ask what you ride, how much you have spent on it and how many adventures you've had on it in the last 12 months?
To be fair, much of the money Shonky has spent has been making the bike competition-ready, not simple adventure. I paid US$4200 for my 250 Rally, brand new, and spent $900 on the suspension, and that's it. Tyres of course come and go, they're a wear item, not a mod.
Totally agree ... while the same applies to sport's bikes. Do we need a bike that cam do 300 kph ? For sure no. I have a GS1250 that I use 90% on road, 5% on gravel road and 5% on a little bit more sandy. If i only would do adventure amd off-road i would chose the CRF300F or something.
Here’s progress for you. A 15 year old F800 GS weighs 185 kg dry with 63 kW. A current T7 weighs 195 kg with 55kW. Marketing terminology has conned lots of people.
R1200GS doesn't have 220, but 250kg.
You missed the Ducati Scrambler Desert Sled. It is a true middle weight bike with a reasonable seat height. I own it and I own an Aprilia Taureg 660. The Aprilia carries it's weight down low and actually feels lighter than it's true weight. I agree that it probably should not go on much single track, but it is fine on ATV trails.
I left out the Ducati Scrambler because it's not marketed as an adventure bike. I actually think it's a great style of bike.
Also, I recently sat on a Aprilia Taureg 660 and the size and weight (just moving it side to side) impressed me. I would love to have a ride on one.
I actually did similar went from a 1200gsa te, to a 1000xt, f800gs, 650xt, then 390 adv for dad and I which were both rejected back to a 1200gs te for 2 months big mistake an for the past few months I've been on a Himalayan ^_^ totally the right move possibly getting a 300 rally for my dad I wish there was more light weight bikes about to choose from.
Talked to 2 Dutchmen in Katherine NT ,Came crosscountry from Holland on First BMW Adventure bikes,or whatever they were called then. Before they were sold in Australia.How did the bikes go? I asked. Anything that weighed 1/2 as much would have been much better was the reply!
Haha... ain't that the truth!
What was your Frankenstein bike like? The one you put together yourself?
Yep your right , I ride a rally 250 , I'm 60 been riding 50 yrs now & alone & love it always want to doit alone, it's that must do it alone thing with me . But if I where a rich man I think I would have a garage full of BMW 1250 ooo yeah😊
Disappointed you never named a selection of 180 to 200 kg middle weights
And it doesn't end there. 100$ for a shitty little fuel filter, 20$ for o-rings with rectangular cross section etc... (versys-x owner here) Then they don't let you testride the bike before you buy... no stock etc. Started to sample Chinese brands like voge 300 rally.
Yes, they really know how to sting you for parts!
“THEY” don’t want us to know!
Well my ktm super adv r was 550 pounds wet and now my norden 901 is 450 wet, 100 pounds less is as huge deal
And then there's old forgotten bikes like the freewind, that is basically a DR650 in sheep's clothing. at 160kg.
Husqvarna got it right with their 701 Enduro or (KTM 690 Enduro) at just 156kg wet.
Your own choice(300 Rally) to use as the "Light Weight" example didn't even make it into the light weight zone so I would say your choice of scale is off by 50kg's. If you use 150kg as the lower end of the scale then all the bikes you've mentioned are middle weights. If a bike lands below the 150kg zone I would be willing to bet there is an argument to be made on whether it is a Dual Sport or an Adventure Bike.
They call them middle weights because they make between 60 and 110hp, and that's much less than the heavy weights that do up to 160hp, still, i rather have less hp but a much nimbler bike, than a heavier one with way more power to control.
Weight in the bikes is about engine size and not its weight. Light weight is 50cc-500cc. mid weight is 600cc to 1000cc and everything over is heavy. Simple.
But why say "Weight" ? You are only quoting what the manufacturers feed us. Please EXPLAIN how "Weight" equals "Engine Size"?
Why not say Small capacity, Mid capacity and large Capacity... That would "Simple"
@@ShonkyProductions I think it goes back in to the road racing. You have 3 classes, light, mid and heavy, just like boxing. Diference is they are applying it in to the engine size and not the weight of the motorcycle, since some 1000cc bikes are almost the same as 600cc in the weight. So they had to draw the line somwhere, now you see some superbikes actually adding weight to be legal in the races.
Very scientific n accurate analysis😂