Rian was too busy making him a joke and sending him to a pointless casino planet than actually developing him as a character. Rian really subverted my expectations.
I don't want that man to have a career after this. He proved himself to be a hack, and I am shocked he's not being accused of being a racist, for what he did.
He sent him on a casino planet IN ORDER to develop his character by making him aware that slavery and poverty exists in the galaxy, not only in the First Order.
Amelia Bee how ungrateful you are to insult a man who took his time and put his heart to make a Star Wars movie. You didn’t like his movie ? Fine. You found his movie racist ? Fine. In my opinion the most racists people are the ones who insulted Kelly Mary Tran on Twitter, those one seem to be the most racist. Rian Johnson defended the actress as she was victim of social harassment. How could you call him racist ? Also, he made a movie you personally didn’t like, does that justify that he stops his career just to satisfy your ego ? His movie Knives Out was great, whether you liked The Last Jedi or not. If you don’t want to see his movies, no one is forcing you. But stop falling into insults. Remember that only a sith deals in absolutes.
Rose lecturing Finn on Canto Bite was the worst scene in the whole movie. Worse than Luke throwing away his father's lightsaber, worse than the Green Milk, and worse than the hyperspace ram.
@@davfree9732 Rose: War is bad, m'kay? Finn: Wow, that's so profound. I mean, as a former child soldier and witness to war crimes who has been kept as a battle-slave until my accumulated PTSD was so overwhelming I'd risk everything and trust a stranger I met less than an hour ago to help me flee from a freaky psychic wizard-knight with a warship to an inhospitable desert-world with nothing but what's in my pockets, I never would've guessed that War was Bad.
Although, those scenes were also really bad. I know that this is a Finn video but how many characters in TLJ can you say were undermind? Obviously Finn, Poe, Luke, Hux, Yoda, Obi Wan, Snoke, Leia, Phasma, and Chewbacca. Plus Laura Durn played a character that was beneath her and the same goes for Kelly Marie Tran. This film was such a mess on so many levels.
TLJ was such a waste of all the characters from TFA. Rey gets sent to Luke's place to sit on her thumbs, Poe is forced to carry the Idiot-Ball to make a new character look really cool and Finn gets sent on an irrelevant side-quest so yet another new character can have someone to lecture at pompously and on top of all that Finn gets re-cast as the comic relief. Fuck this movie.
It should have been Finn as the primary protagonist It would've made a real statement to the film industry, it would've made a more interesting Star Wars story and there's a tremendous amount of untapped potential with a story about a storm trooper who goes rogue. You could base an entire movie around that concept and they squandered it.
It also would have made more sense and more impactful to have an ex-stormtrooper fight and dismantle the new empire, and we could have seen him gradually grow into his sense of responsibility and leadership. It also would have been so cool to have a jedi as the side character for once and have her learn to work with others, making the emphasis of the movies that anyone can save the world and everyone is stronger together.
No, this is the problem. It seems like the only people coming around to this point of thinking of how awfully Finn was treated, are those who are currently part of the Hate Rey train. These new Rey haters think the solution would have been to demote her importance. Instead a better method would have been to focus on the hero's journey of both characters all along. Rey could have remained Lead A, but Finn could have been a strong Lead B without taking anything away from her importance.
finn had depth and the last jedi just dropped all that to focus on kylo ren, for no reason other than was seems to me to be blatant racism. in the first movie, he was a far more compelling and likable character than kylo ever managed to be throughout the trilogy. we could have had a story about someone who was raised from birth to be a soldier, someone who was a SLAVE, learning how to navigate his newfound freedom and the interpersonal relationships that came with it! and yet. *and yet.* they decided to just completely fuck over one of the most interesting, compelling characters they had, just because he was black. its unbelievable. i went into the last jedi really looking forwards to it! i wanted to see rey and poe again, but i REALLY wanted to see finn, to see him become stronger and heal from his past!! but they decided not to give us that. it was a tragedy. it was an *insult.* im of the mind that finn was the best character in the force awakens. and they took him and completely fucked him over
Rey and Finn could've had the most compelling romance in all of star wars. They bond that they developed in TFA was probably the most geniune aspect of that film
Once again, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT The way Rian Johnson did Finn dirty is SUCH a crime. Finn had SO much nuance and character potential in TFA, and Rian sidelined him and reduced him to comic relief who exists to get physically assaulted and insulted due to “cowardice.” He was easily my fave character in the entire sequel trilogy, and so it was incredibly disheartening to see Finn treated like that :( And I can’t get over the fact that John Boyega literally tried to gently tell Rian Johnson about how he was mishandling his character, and then Rian Johnson just didn’t care and turned his character into a joke anyway :( And I cannot get over the fact that Rian Johnson then dismissed literally EVERY SINGLE POC who criticized the mishandling of Finn in this movie as “white toxic male racists who couldn’t handle having women in Star Wars” But also, since Rian Johnson is getting his own Star Wars trilogy, I think it stands to mention that this is a recurring problem he has. In his entire filmography, his one Black girl is heavily implied to be an underage prostitute who goes out of her way to be fetishized and seductive, and his one Black man (aside from Finn) is an illiterate brute who’s reduced to comic relief whose only purpose is to be beaten up onscreen by the white male main character (if this sounds a lot like what happened to Finn, it is). In Knives Out, Rian Johnson confirmed that he wrote the racist hate crime where the White villain was trying to kill Marta (the Latina character) for her money in a sexy light, and that she apparently started developing feelings for him after he tried to murder her (in a racially motivated hate crime!!!) And in that same movie, Marta was written to be incredibly one-note and shallow (Rian Johnson pitched the character as “sexy Latina caretaker” to Ana De Armas, which.... gross), and the white characters got far more fleshed out and had far more nuance. In his entire filmography, the one Asian woman (aside from Rose) that he had only appeared in one flashback, and her entire purpose was to be sexy and dead in order to fuel White manpain. Even Rose Tico from TLJ was largely based on anti-Asian stereotypes (can’t drive and childish personality), and she was largely written in to destroy the FinnRey that was established in TFA. (And Rian Johnson also said that it was impossible for women to be “real” geeks, which...... yikes.....) As we can see, Rian Johnson has real problems with how he writes POC and women, and it’s definitely something that reflected a LOT in how he wrote TLJ :/
« A crime » ? Relax, man, it’s just a movie. Killing people, that is a crime. Bombarding the Twin Towers, that is a crime. Writing a character in a way you don’t like, this is not a crime. You really need to wake up, Rian Johnson didn’t ruin your childhood. He is just a man, he can make mistakes, he can have a different vision than you have. You are insulting him whereas he took his time to make a Star Wars movie, worked hardly on that and put his heart into this. You cannot insult his work just like that, without thinking about his artistic intentions he had with it. Character interpretation is subjective, then he can write the character in the way he wants them to. You need to accept this.
Rey and Finn were both supposed to be Force-sensitive and I believe the Force should’ve awakened in BOTH of them in TFA, and both should’ve been saved/trained by Luke from Kylo at the end. Keep Rey as Kylo’s missing twin sister (explaining her connection to him, Han and Leia) and make Finn the “nobody” that comes from “nowhere”. Also, they should’ve kept the setup romantic bond between Finn and Rey. I think it made their dynamic more interesting and deepened their investment in each other, but what do I know.
A lot of interaction between Finn and Rey was cut out by disney execs because of reasons... there's was supposed to be some romance between them but let's subvert expectations y'all
Right?! I would have loved to see them together! And for the trio, of he, rey and poe becoming good friends as the trilogy went on but... sad that it never happened :(
I wish I would be sure that the people who STILL claim TLJ didn't ruin Finn's role in the ST would finally realize they are wrong after watching this video. However they have been so in love with their own opinions and the illusion that TLJ is SUCH A MASTERPIECE that even John's own words are irrelevant to them. Great analysis as usually and I obviously agree with everything but the ignorance in this fandom is never-fucking-ending. (also how can people not notice the parallels between finn-rey-kylo as a character triangle in TFA?? racism, I know... but jeez...
The irony is that TLJ zealots are almost exclusively left-wing indoctrinates who can't see anything outside the myopic prism of race, gender (of which there are only two and that cannot be interchanged), class, or whatever arbitrary tribe they divide people into so they can pit them against one another, yet they're fanatically enamored with a film written (in one draft) and directed by a white American trust-fund manbaby that at best squanders and at worst demeans the experiences of a former child soldier/slave of fascist terrorists, whose played by a foreign black man: a film in which Ruin also essentially using women as a proxy to virtue signal and mansplain. And that's the real crux of the issue; all the "marginalized" groups which more often than not they ostracized in the first place, if not still ostracizing, are nothing to them but meat shields and cannon fodder to push their post-modernist, anti-enlightenment, godless religion. From their point of view, good is evil and evil is good. They are lost.
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 No. We can not agree because the story is so vague and was changed in between writers/directors. Literally nobody is exactly sure WHAT the story is.
@@warwatcher91 Not, it's not. The Last Jedi is not "just a movie;" it's some of the most unrepentantly brazen propaganda ever put on screen. Future generations will look back upon Ruin Johnstain's disaster opus the same way that we of today look at Reefer Madness.
what a good video! i knew Finn was done wrong in TLJ bc everyone kept constantly belittling him and etc., but i didn’t even pick up on the finn not blinking an eye at child slaves thing! gosh, Finn & John got done so wrong.
It's obvious that Finn was basically sidelined because he's black. The Chinese don't like us black folks & movie studios make a large bulk of their $ there. Finn story should've focused on him being a "traitorous storm trooper" & his battle w/ Cap Phasma (who was like a mother to him, albeit an abusive one). She should've been a highly skilled fighter & the one Finn fought throughout the series, instead of Stormtrooper FN-2199 (who had that riot baton). Finn should've lost to her at 1st, but after some Jedi training, beat her during the end of the series. Phasma's dying words should've been an apology for treating him so badly, but explained it was for his own good. She should've died congratulating Finn for becoming the great warrior she always knew he was. She should've hinted that Finn could become as great as his Jedi father--who would later be revealed to have been Mace Windu.
I think it's funny that the movie that the media lost their minds defending and calling the people with legitimate critique racist and sexist is actually the most racist and sexist of the entire trilogy lmao
I am a 43 year old full time mom of 4 living in suburbia and yes, I am white. You are 100 percent correct. Finn was by far my most anticipated and favorite character in the Force Awakens. In the subsequent films he was completely WASTED! It was so disappointing. John Boyega deserved so much better. You can speak to why better than I can so thanks for this video.
Thank you for another great video! :D Finn is my favorite character in the new trilogy, i actually got pissed when it became clear that he wasn't the main guy, his inexperience was endearing, he's pretty funny and his backstory is interesting, especially if his story went from some defected trooper, to going on the jedi path to the biggest pain in the ass to the First Order. But i agree, i really wish we would have gotten more from him, his arc, and that concept art seems.... very intriguing too!
I randomly want to add that Finn's "leaving the conflict" period was much shorter than Rey's. The moment he turned around was when he heard (yes heard) the destruction of Hosnia prime and then saw Rey being kidnapped. Rey's turn around moment was only during the final fight when she pulled the Skywalker saber out of the snow after she had been woken up by Finn's scream. Also Finn's decision to leave was made calmly... Rey literally ran away in panic. (I am not blaming her, just pointing out how it makes no sense calling him a coward and ignore that Rey literally ran away without a destination just to get away)
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 so he basically wanted to run away but then ran back into the most dangerous place because the first person he had a truly emotional connection with was in danger. that is somehow a bad thing because right after leaving the FO he has to be 100% convinced of the Resistance's cause and care mostly for that. Right?
Alien Observer no, because the only thing he wants is to go out from the fight. He doesn’t want to fight with the Resistance. He only fight with them because he cares about Rey, not about the Resistance. After all, it’s a Resistant who shot the Stormtrooper aside of him.
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 if he didn't care about them at all, he wouldn't have actually dismantled the shields and would have just departed from Han to look for Rey and then leave. The Resistance was a side thing to him. Also he doesn't seem to blame Poe for anything LOL
Alien Observer it was Han who decided to place the bomb. If Han wasn’t there he would have leave with Rey. And after getting his ass kicked at the end of the movie, do you really think he would continue to want to fight with the Resistance ?
I saw a video from a certain Star Wars RUclipsr who just made a video about how apparently “TLJ Didn’t Ruin Finn” and all the comments were saying that Finn in TLJ was great. Like what? Did they watch the same movie??? It’s ridiculous. I mean, your video completely disproves their argument entirely. It just frustrates me about what happened with Finn
I always thought Finn was put on the side lines because he wasn't Rian Johnson's character. He does a lot to hurt established character's development. He disregards their stories and makes them into failures to prop up his new characters like Holdo and Rose. Luke is white, yet he also is made into a joke, Poe is white too (or is he latino?) and gets the same treatment. I thought maybe a small reason was because they were male, but Rey also sits on her ass for most of the movie instead of actually doing something. Only Kylo got a little bit of development, but nothing happened with other characters. But now I see, that there might have been even more behind this. If it indeed was some racist decision, then, man, it's disgusting af.
No RIP to your comment sectiom, bro. :D A lot of people comming here agree, me included. I have been arguing the same points about TLJ in Disney trilogy discussions.
You're right, there should have ABSOLUTELY been a Stormtrooper rebellion. How awesome would that have been? But, no. Why make a good movie when you can lazily appeal to the lowest common denominator?
I never really got the criticism around Finn's arc in The Last Jedi, but talking about the double standard with Rey really helped put it into perspective for me. Thanks.
Johnson also destroyed the concept of a trilogy. There is no over arcing story, no plotlines running through every film. What Isney Star Wars amounts is... some films
Thank you for putting this video together. You were able to encapsulate all of my opinions of the absolute wasted potential of the character of Finn, the talent and charisma of John Boyega, and the onscreen chemistry he had with the other players. After TFA, I was poised to celebrate Finn as my next hero to cheer on! I couldn’t wait to buy his Black Series figure and t-shirts with his image on it! Only to be left disappointed and confused while watching TLJ. I was sitting in my theater seat thinking,”Okay, any moment here, Finn is gonna turn it on, light this place up and save the day!” Such a letdown. Furthermore, it wasn’t just Finn that was subverted…. but the entire male cast was relegated to being mere personifications of character traits associated with toxic masculinity. Finn, Poe, Luke, Kylo, Hux, and even Chewie were all subjected to being punished and then lectured by the wiser female roles. The entire movie was like watching your friend getting detention and then reprimanded by the school counselor. It’s as if all the male characters were being punished for being too “male” in the first film and were consequently being put in a timeout as a result. Yes, Boyega was dealt a losing hand in every sense of the expression after TFA. But, he wasn’t alone. Being born XX and not XY is the only way to get acknowledgment in the new Disney/Kennedy Star Wars Universe!
If we didn't need more reasons already to hate the people in charge of Disney and Lucas Films....and The Last Jedi as a whole.....then all this with Jon is exposed, man Hollywood, you just cant change, its so sad, what we could and should have, vs what we got and the awful treatment Jon Boyega have to endure, and others like Ray Fisher, is just so stupid, again at least Ray got a more nicer ending because we manage to see the real vision Snyder had for Cyborg with the Snyder cut, no one cant take that away from him, even if WB says and never give his movie back, they are the ones who look like completely racism fools......but with Jon and Finn, was made by design after the Force Awakens, which is just sad, now the only way to save Finn's character if he get an spin off series or film, which.....probably not going to happen, cause now Lucas Film and Disney want to tell stories as far awwaaayyyy as possible from the Sequel era, possibly looking at any excuse to erase that to even existed, instead of making what George Lucas and Dave Filoni did with the prequels and create a show that flesh out more the story....you know....THE CLONE WARS, just one of the best things that happen to SW in general and make actually the perquels better......that same thing can be done with the sequels, but sadly, there is not a single attempt to do this at least so far.
It literally took more work for them to sideline Finn than it would’ve been to make a story where a stormtrooper turns good and learns the ways of the Force
Finn had the potential to become the greatest character of the Sequel Trilogy. But that would go against the trilogy's mission to become the popcorniest of popcorn flicks.
TFA ruined Finn as well in the very end. It was TFA that set him up to be an important character (storm trooper turned Jedi in the trailers) only to the very end LITERALLY side line Finn with Rey force pulling the lightsaber. Both are facing Kylo who is trying to stop them (or get "his" lightsaber, its really not clear) (planet is about to explode mind you) and Rey tries to fire at him and Kylo force pushes her. Finn stands in battle for quite a while only to get slashed in the end. Finn´s last apearence in the movie is him literally in a coma with Rey looking at him feeling sorry and thinking sorry Finn Disney has to apease the Chinese market. Thats how the movie ends.
That's not sidelining, that's misdirecting. Fan theories based on trailers will always be irrelevant to what actually happens in the movie. Finn losing the fight does absolutely nothing to impact his role as an important character and co-protagonist of that movie. He could have had meaningful development and a meaningful place in the next two movies, but he was not granted that. Because he was actually sidelined in those.
something with him and phasma would have been so good I would assume phasma is just as much as a victim as him and he seems to have no problems with mowing down storm troopers like they weren’t his brothers and sisters something sad where phasma is just about to change but she doesn’t bc she full hearted believes that’s she’s no a victim this whole thing was such a lose
I LOVED this video because how the sequel trilogy treated Finn has been making me feel irrational anger for years now. I liked the Rey and Kylo arc in TLJ because it does show off how selfish and hung up on her own trauma Rey is, and this is what made her an intriguing protagonist for me, but the Finn subplot was just kinda pointless. I feel like if Rian Johnson really wanted to make an anti-industrial military complex message, you could have gotten something more meaningful with, like, minimal tweaking. Just have Finn say, "Man, I spent my whole life being traumatized over and over again, I saved Rey, and now I'm going to leave the fighting to the people who actually CHOSE to fight and do something for myself", which is a 100% understandable perspective for someone who never got to do ANYTHING for himself, in his life. In fact, if Finn decided to just nope out of that fight it would make him completely understandable and human, because he has as much right to a life and personal desires as anyone else. Then take him on the mission, have them INTERACT with the actually oppressed people rather watching the symbolically oppressed animals from afar and having Rose exposition dump how we should hate oppression, and have Finn think, "You know what, fuck it, I just can't leave these people who are just like me to suffer, it's not in my nature, so I'm gonna fight to protect them all". It's completely coherent with Finn's character: he's empathetic, he's traumatized, he oscilates between being proactive and giving up based on his emotional state. You'd have the exact same arc and the exact same message, but with actual respect and understanding for him and a VERY heroic and understandable conclusion of "I'm going to make sure no one suffers what I had to suffer", which would make him THE most heroic character of the sequels. Then have the third movie have the dual plotline of Finn taking down Hux and the First Order (Stormtrooper rebellion, perhaps?) and growing into a leadership position in the Rebellion instead of Poe (who is a secondary character and is clearly meant to be Finn's sidekick!), while Rey and Kylo deal with the balance between light and dark and their own personal struggles with redemption and legacy and selfishness. Which also makes sense as an exploration of personal trauma and identity for Rey and Kylo, which was clearly the intention from the start, maybe also through some exploration of a Grey Jedi ideology, but then systemic oppression and its effects for Finn, because he was literally dehumanized his whole life and is fighting a complex that systemically does that to people, turning them into essentially brainwashed enemies to him.
All this time time and I'm still so disappointed by these movies. Disney made their money but wasted everyone's time I still say all of the problems started with TFA but man Rian really made all of the problems worse with his weird leaps of logic. I was excited to see Finn and the rest of this new trinity complete their adventures... :( JJ could've done something but he's never been a finisher of plots, he only likes setting up mystery boxes He set up a lot of things he had no interest in developing. Like Finn being abducted child NEVER comes back in any meaningful way. The writing never understood what it meant that Finn was a child soldier essentially and JJ made him a janitor & Rian turned him into a clown.
Media also helped ruin Finn, by highlighting the most racist responses to Finn's reveal, when so many Star Wars fans have already loved Lando and Mace Windu previously.
@@TheFirstOkiro I think there was one in the Old Republic MMO, but I can't think of anyone else. And of course the Second Sister, even if she technically wasn't a Sith
@@Raleyg Vader had a black voice over and now we have Moff Gideon. So a Black Sith Lord is viable but predictable. which is why i was so hyped for Finn. Rey should've lost that first match with Kylo.
Oh yeah since then it's ironic that LEGO STAR WARS actually delivered on making Finn a Jedi. Tho they really should be learning together but it's better than the BILLION DOLLAR MOVIES
@@TheFirstOkiro thanks for making these videos. You've expressed a lot of what I and many like me were thinking when we watched this sequel trilogy and saw how they (Rian Johnson & Co.) overtly and unabashedly ruined John Boyega's Finn character, and turned a lot of us off from liking this franchise. Rian who only had 'Looper' under his belt had no business being picked to direct the sequel. I'm beginning to wonder if Disney picked him purposely because they knew he would do everything they tell him to do that includes dismantle the first films plots which Disney largely rejected since it centered around interracial paired protagonists. Well in the end balanced Disney wanted was restored. @The First Okiro if you get the chance search for this recent video MSNBC uploaded titled 'Carl Sagan Predicted The Mess', I watched that video and some of what Sagan said made me instantly think of this topic here. Take care and God bless brother.
so you're saying that all of what happened to finn's character is rian's fault???? john boyega seems to have enjoyed TLJ a lot more. all JJ abrams did was make him a sideline character. i feel that Rian gave him somewhat of a story. there was only so much he could do.
Personally I think finn at the start of tfa is kind of a coward but here's the rub...thats fine its a character flaw you know the things that every character have to over come?
9:11 I’m not gonna say that’s not racist. But what about empire strikes back? Lando was the first black person in Star Wars and no where to be seen on the poster of empire. Same with the prequels. The phantom menace and attack of the clones did not feature Mace Windu. The first black Jedi who is also Samuel L Say What Again Jackson. No where to be found. And you know why no one cares? Because it’s a freaking poster
The first one was from the 80s cant blame them but I think people didn’t mind no black people in the prequels compared to the sequels is because Finn was the very first thing everyone saw after 10 years of no star wars.
Lando is only in the last third of ESB. He has less than ten minutes of screen time. Are you out of your fucking mind to compare his importance to Finn's in TFA? And Mace got even less time than Lando.
Finn should be treated better in the Disney Star Wars Sequel trilogy un the LUCASFiLM employees had other different ideas with agenda driven feminist identity politics SJW Nonsense!😡♨️🖕🏼🧨🔥💸💩👻☠️💬❌💢🚫⚠️ Even as a Main Character that should be sidelined.!
8:15 thank you! Finally someone else says it. I joke with my friends that Rey didn’t even join the resistance, she was with them for about a week and spent most of the time taking their stuff and running around the galaxy achieving her own goals. It was way more interesting following her than anything the resistance was doing anyways.
Rian was too busy making him a joke and sending him to a pointless casino planet than actually developing him as a character. Rian really subverted my expectations.
I don't want that man to have a career after this. He proved himself to be a hack, and I am shocked he's not being accused of being a racist, for what he did.
@@WobblesandBean Actually, aren't you doing that right now?
He sent him on a casino planet IN ORDER to develop his character by making him aware that slavery and poverty exists in the galaxy, not only in the First Order.
Amelia Bee how ungrateful you are to insult a man who took his time and put his heart to make a Star Wars movie. You didn’t like his movie ? Fine. You found his movie racist ? Fine. In my opinion the most racists people are the ones who insulted Kelly Mary Tran on Twitter, those one seem to be the most racist. Rian Johnson defended the actress as she was victim of social harassment. How could you call him racist ? Also, he made a movie you personally didn’t like, does that justify that he stops his career just to satisfy your ego ? His movie Knives Out was great, whether you liked The Last Jedi or not. If you don’t want to see his movies, no one is forcing you. But stop falling into insults. Remember that only a sith deals in absolutes.
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 man shut up you dont get to tell other poc or other finn fans what is and is not RACIST.
Rose lecturing Finn on Canto Bite was the worst scene in the whole movie. Worse than Luke throwing away his father's lightsaber, worse than the Green Milk, and worse than the hyperspace ram.
agreed.
Rose: War m'is bad, m'kay?
Finn: ... ... ... Is that why everything you do undermines the Resistance?
Rose: Sithspit he knows I'm the spy!
@@davfree9732 Rose: War is bad, m'kay?
Finn: Wow, that's so profound. I mean, as a former child soldier and witness to war crimes who has been kept as a battle-slave until my accumulated PTSD was so overwhelming I'd risk everything and trust a stranger I met less than an hour ago to help me flee from a freaky psychic wizard-knight with a warship to an inhospitable desert-world with nothing but what's in my pockets, I never would've guessed that War was Bad.
The only good thing bout that scene was the happy face Finn made when he enters the casino. It said “JACKPOT BABY!”
Although, those scenes were also really bad. I know that this is a Finn video but how many characters in TLJ can you say were undermind? Obviously Finn, Poe, Luke, Hux, Yoda, Obi Wan, Snoke, Leia, Phasma, and Chewbacca.
Plus Laura Durn played a character that was beneath her and the same goes for Kelly Marie Tran. This film was such a mess on so many levels.
TLJ was such a waste of all the characters from TFA. Rey gets sent to Luke's place to sit on her thumbs, Poe is forced to carry the Idiot-Ball to make a new character look really cool and Finn gets sent on an irrelevant side-quest so yet another new character can have someone to lecture at pompously and on top of all that Finn gets re-cast as the comic relief. Fuck this movie.
The fact that some people compare this travesty positively to ESB infuriates me.
It should have been Finn as the primary protagonist
It would've made a real statement to the film industry, it would've made a more interesting Star Wars story and there's a tremendous amount of untapped potential with a story about a storm trooper who goes rogue.
You could base an entire movie around that concept and they squandered it.
It also would have made more sense and more impactful to have an ex-stormtrooper fight and dismantle the new empire, and we could have seen him gradually grow into his sense of responsibility and leadership. It also would have been so cool to have a jedi as the side character for once and have her learn to work with others, making the emphasis of the movies that anyone can save the world and everyone is stronger together.
No, this is the problem. It seems like the only people coming around to this point of thinking of how awfully Finn was treated, are those who are currently part of the Hate Rey train. These new Rey haters think the solution would have been to demote her importance. Instead a better method would have been to focus on the hero's journey of both characters all along. Rey could have remained Lead A, but Finn could have been a strong Lead B without taking anything away from her importance.
finn had depth and the last jedi just dropped all that to focus on kylo ren, for no reason other than was seems to me to be blatant racism. in the first movie, he was a far more compelling and likable character than kylo ever managed to be throughout the trilogy. we could have had a story about someone who was raised from birth to be a soldier, someone who was a SLAVE, learning how to navigate his newfound freedom and the interpersonal relationships that came with it! and yet. *and yet.* they decided to just completely fuck over one of the most interesting, compelling characters they had, just because he was black. its unbelievable. i went into the last jedi really looking forwards to it! i wanted to see rey and poe again, but i REALLY wanted to see finn, to see him become stronger and heal from his past!! but they decided not to give us that. it was a tragedy. it was an *insult.*
im of the mind that finn was the best character in the force awakens. and they took him and completely fucked him over
Absolutely the most concise and factual indictment of the crimes against this character. Thank you for this video!
Rey and Finn could've had the most compelling romance in all of star wars. They bond that they developed in TFA was probably the most geniune aspect of that film
It’s one of the reason why I love TFA.
Once again, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
The way Rian Johnson did Finn dirty is SUCH a crime. Finn had SO much nuance and character potential in TFA, and Rian sidelined him and reduced him to comic relief who exists to get physically assaulted and insulted due to “cowardice.” He was easily my fave character in the entire sequel trilogy, and so it was incredibly disheartening to see Finn treated like that :(
And I can’t get over the fact that John Boyega literally tried to gently tell Rian Johnson about how he was mishandling his character, and then Rian Johnson just didn’t care and turned his character into a joke anyway :( And I cannot get over the fact that Rian Johnson then dismissed literally EVERY SINGLE POC who criticized the mishandling of Finn in this movie as “white toxic male racists who couldn’t handle having women in Star Wars”
But also, since Rian Johnson is getting his own Star Wars trilogy, I think it stands to mention that this is a recurring problem he has. In his entire filmography, his one Black girl is heavily implied to be an underage prostitute who goes out of her way to be fetishized and seductive, and his one Black man (aside from Finn) is an illiterate brute who’s reduced to comic relief whose only purpose is to be beaten up onscreen by the white male main character (if this sounds a lot like what happened to Finn, it is). In Knives Out, Rian Johnson confirmed that he wrote the racist hate crime where the White villain was trying to kill Marta (the Latina character) for her money in a sexy light, and that she apparently started developing feelings for him after he tried to murder her (in a racially motivated hate crime!!!) And in that same movie, Marta was written to be incredibly one-note and shallow (Rian Johnson pitched the character as “sexy Latina caretaker” to Ana De Armas, which.... gross), and the white characters got far more fleshed out and had far more nuance. In his entire filmography, the one Asian woman (aside from Rose) that he had only appeared in one flashback, and her entire purpose was to be sexy and dead in order to fuel White manpain. Even Rose Tico from TLJ was largely based on anti-Asian stereotypes (can’t drive and childish personality), and she was largely written in to destroy the FinnRey that was established in TFA. (And Rian Johnson also said that it was impossible for women to be “real” geeks, which...... yikes.....) As we can see, Rian Johnson has real problems with how he writes POC and women, and it’s definitely something that reflected a LOT in how he wrote TLJ :/
« A crime » ? Relax, man, it’s just a movie. Killing people, that is a crime. Bombarding the Twin Towers, that is a crime. Writing a character in a way you don’t like, this is not a crime. You really need to wake up, Rian Johnson didn’t ruin your childhood. He is just a man, he can make mistakes, he can have a different vision than you have. You are insulting him whereas he took his time to make a Star Wars movie, worked hardly on that and put his heart into this. You cannot insult his work just like that, without thinking about his artistic intentions he had with it.
Character interpretation is subjective, then he can write the character in the way he wants them to. You need to accept this.
Rey and Finn were both supposed to be Force-sensitive and I believe the Force should’ve awakened in BOTH of them in TFA, and both should’ve been saved/trained by Luke from Kylo at the end. Keep Rey as Kylo’s missing twin sister (explaining her connection to him, Han and Leia) and make Finn the “nobody” that comes from “nowhere”. Also, they should’ve kept the setup romantic bond between Finn and Rey. I think it made their dynamic more interesting and deepened their investment in each other, but what do I know.
A lot of interaction between Finn and Rey was cut out by disney execs because of reasons... there's was supposed to be some romance between them but let's subvert expectations y'all
Right?! I would have loved to see them together! And for the trio, of he, rey and poe becoming good friends as the trilogy went on but... sad that it never happened :(
@@jacquelyynorgana77 that's what happens when you politics wokeness ahead of the story
the snow speeder deleted scene is the best example of this, I wish we saw that dynamic more on screen
Screw you ya libtard
@@gkroll8467 *gasps*
I wish I would be sure that the people who STILL claim TLJ didn't ruin Finn's role in the ST would finally realize they are wrong after watching this video. However they have been so in love with their own opinions and the illusion that TLJ is SUCH A MASTERPIECE that even John's own words are irrelevant to them. Great analysis as usually and I obviously agree with everything but the ignorance in this fandom is never-fucking-ending. (also how can people not notice the parallels between finn-rey-kylo as a character triangle in TFA?? racism, I know... but jeez...
The irony is that TLJ zealots are almost exclusively left-wing indoctrinates who can't see anything outside the myopic prism of race, gender (of which there are only two and that cannot be interchanged), class, or whatever arbitrary tribe they divide people into so they can pit them against one another, yet they're fanatically enamored with a film written (in one draft) and directed by a white American trust-fund manbaby that at best squanders and at worst demeans the experiences of a former child soldier/slave of fascist terrorists, whose played by a foreign black man: a film in which Ruin also essentially using women as a proxy to virtue signal and mansplain.
And that's the real crux of the issue; all the "marginalized" groups which more often than not they ostracized in the first place, if not still ostracizing, are nothing to them but meat shields and cannon fodder to push their post-modernist, anti-enlightenment, godless religion. From their point of view, good is evil and evil is good. They are lost.
@@DaMaster012 Easy there buddy it's just a movie.
Opinions are subjective. We can not agree on the last Jedi because we all have our interpretation of the characters.
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 No. We can not agree because the story is so vague and was changed in between writers/directors. Literally nobody is exactly sure WHAT the story is.
@@warwatcher91 Not, it's not. The Last Jedi is not "just a movie;" it's some of the most unrepentantly brazen propaganda ever put on screen. Future generations will look back upon Ruin Johnstain's disaster opus the same way that we of today look at Reefer Madness.
what a good video! i knew Finn was done wrong in TLJ bc everyone kept constantly belittling him and etc., but i didn’t even pick up on the finn not blinking an eye at child slaves thing! gosh, Finn & John got done so wrong.
It's obvious that Finn was basically sidelined because he's black. The Chinese don't like us black folks & movie studios make a large bulk of their $ there. Finn story should've focused on him being a "traitorous storm trooper" & his battle w/ Cap Phasma (who was like a mother to him, albeit an abusive one). She should've been a highly skilled fighter & the one Finn fought throughout the series, instead of Stormtrooper FN-2199 (who had that riot baton). Finn should've lost to her at 1st, but after some Jedi training, beat her during the end of the series. Phasma's dying words should've been an apology for treating him so badly, but explained it was for his own good. She should've died congratulating Finn for becoming the great warrior she always knew he was. She should've hinted that Finn could become as great as his Jedi father--who would later be revealed to have been Mace Windu.
I think it's funny that the movie that the media lost their minds defending and calling the people with legitimate critique racist and sexist is actually the most racist and sexist of the entire trilogy lmao
I am a 43 year old full time mom of 4 living in suburbia and yes, I am white. You are 100 percent correct. Finn was by far my most anticipated and favorite character in the Force Awakens. In the subsequent films he was completely WASTED! It was so disappointing. John Boyega deserved so much better. You can speak to why better than I can so thanks for this video.
You have a lot of taste then!
@@TheFirstOkiro ❤❤
Thank you for another great video! :D Finn is my favorite character in the new trilogy, i actually got pissed when it became clear that he wasn't the main guy, his inexperience was endearing, he's pretty funny and his backstory is interesting, especially if his story went from some defected trooper, to going on the jedi path to the biggest pain in the ass to the First Order. But i agree, i really wish we would have gotten more from him, his arc, and that concept art seems.... very intriguing too!
I randomly want to add that Finn's "leaving the conflict" period was much shorter than Rey's. The moment he turned around was when he heard (yes heard) the destruction of Hosnia prime and then saw Rey being kidnapped. Rey's turn around moment was only during the final fight when she pulled the Skywalker saber out of the snow after she had been woken up by Finn's scream. Also Finn's decision to leave was made calmly... Rey literally ran away in panic. (I am not blaming her, just pointing out how it makes no sense calling him a coward and ignore that Rey literally ran away without a destination just to get away)
Finn was back in the conflict only to save Rey. He literally says that to Han Solo when they are on Starkiller base.
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 so he basically wanted to run away but then ran back into the most dangerous place because the first person he had a truly emotional connection with was in danger. that is somehow a bad thing because right after leaving the FO he has to be 100% convinced of the Resistance's cause and care mostly for that. Right?
Alien Observer no, because the only thing he wants is to go out from the fight. He doesn’t want to fight with the Resistance. He only fight with them because he cares about Rey, not about the Resistance. After all, it’s a Resistant who shot the Stormtrooper aside of him.
@@agamagohenmapoke5303 if he didn't care about them at all, he wouldn't have actually dismantled the shields and would have just departed from Han to look for Rey and then leave. The Resistance was a side thing to him. Also he doesn't seem to blame Poe for anything LOL
Alien Observer it was Han who decided to place the bomb. If Han wasn’t there he would have leave with Rey. And after getting his ass kicked at the end of the movie, do you really think he would continue to want to fight with the Resistance ?
The Star Wars Boycott was genuinely disgusting
Wait what are you talking about?
I saw a video from a certain Star Wars RUclipsr who just made a video about how apparently “TLJ Didn’t Ruin Finn” and all the comments were saying that Finn in TLJ was great. Like what? Did they watch the same movie??? It’s ridiculous. I mean, your video completely disproves their argument entirely. It just frustrates me about what happened with Finn
I understand that channel wanting to be positive, but I find it to be insulting with how much it denies the truth
I always thought Finn was put on the side lines because he wasn't Rian Johnson's character. He does a lot to hurt established character's development. He disregards their stories and makes them into failures to prop up his new characters like Holdo and Rose. Luke is white, yet he also is made into a joke, Poe is white too (or is he latino?) and gets the same treatment. I thought maybe a small reason was because they were male, but Rey also sits on her ass for most of the movie instead of actually doing something. Only Kylo got a little bit of development, but nothing happened with other characters. But now I see, that there might have been even more behind this. If it indeed was some racist decision, then, man, it's disgusting af.
No RIP to your comment sectiom, bro. :D A lot of people comming here agree, me included. I have been arguing the same points about TLJ in Disney trilogy discussions.
You're right, there should have ABSOLUTELY been a Stormtrooper rebellion. How awesome would that have been? But, no. Why make a good movie when you can lazily appeal to the lowest common denominator?
Dope flick! Subscribed.
I hate when people say that Finn should’ve died in the last jedi honestly no, rose should’ve died to push Finn further
Your best video! Lucasfilm cut Finn to please the racist and the racist still hated the last Jedi lol
I never really got the criticism around Finn's arc in The Last Jedi, but talking about the double standard with Rey really helped put it into perspective for me. Thanks.
🤬🤬RACISM DESTROYS STAR WARS🤬🤬
Johnson also destroyed the concept of a trilogy. There is no over arcing story, no plotlines running through every film. What Isney Star Wars amounts is... some films
This video seriously needs more views.
Will make a UNDERGROUND FINN COMIC HIM BECOMING A JEDI HE WILL BE A JEDI THE BRONZE MAN WILL RIZE
Thank you for putting this video together. You were able to encapsulate all of my opinions of the absolute wasted potential of the character of Finn, the talent and charisma of John Boyega, and the onscreen chemistry he had with the other players. After TFA, I was poised to celebrate Finn as my next hero to cheer on! I couldn’t wait to buy his Black Series figure and t-shirts with his image on it! Only to be left disappointed and confused while watching TLJ. I was sitting in my theater seat thinking,”Okay, any moment here, Finn is gonna turn it on, light this place up and save the day!” Such a letdown.
Furthermore, it wasn’t just Finn that was subverted…. but the entire male cast was relegated to being mere personifications of character traits associated with toxic masculinity. Finn, Poe, Luke, Kylo, Hux, and even Chewie were all subjected to being punished and then lectured by the wiser female roles. The entire movie was like watching your friend getting detention and then reprimanded by the school counselor. It’s as if all the male characters were being punished for being too “male” in the first film and were consequently being put in a timeout as a result.
Yes, Boyega was dealt a losing hand in every sense of the expression after TFA. But, he wasn’t alone. Being born XX and not XY is the only way to get acknowledgment in the new Disney/Kennedy Star Wars Universe!
If we didn't need more reasons already to hate the people in charge of Disney and Lucas Films....and The Last Jedi as a whole.....then all this with Jon is exposed, man Hollywood, you just cant change, its so sad, what we could and should have, vs what we got and the awful treatment Jon Boyega have to endure, and others like Ray Fisher, is just so stupid, again at least Ray got a more nicer ending because we manage to see the real vision Snyder had for Cyborg with the Snyder cut, no one cant take that away from him, even if WB says and never give his movie back, they are the ones who look like completely racism fools......but with Jon and Finn, was made by design after the Force Awakens, which is just sad, now the only way to save Finn's character if he get an spin off series or film, which.....probably not going to happen, cause now Lucas Film and Disney want to tell stories as far awwaaayyyy as possible from the Sequel era, possibly looking at any excuse to erase that to even existed, instead of making what George Lucas and Dave Filoni did with the prequels and create a show that flesh out more the story....you know....THE CLONE WARS, just one of the best things that happen to SW in general and make actually the perquels better......that same thing can be done with the sequels, but sadly, there is not a single attempt to do this at least so far.
It literally took more work for them to sideline Finn than it would’ve been to make a story where a stormtrooper turns good and learns the ways of the Force
I was intrigued by Finn because up until that moment I thought storm troopers were robots 🤖😑😬
We was so excited w/Finn. A defected Stormtrooper!! What a waste
Finn had the potential to become the greatest character of the Sequel Trilogy.
But that would go against the trilogy's mission to become the popcorniest of popcorn flicks.
That in the end is the biggest problem. Conceptually there’s too much alienating mass appeal for his character
Lol yeah, the fact that Ray made it through an entire Star Wars trilogy without losing a limb was probably the stupidest mistake Disney made
Lmao.
TFA ruined Finn as well in the very end. It was TFA that set him up to be an important character (storm trooper turned Jedi in the trailers) only to the very end LITERALLY side line Finn with Rey force pulling the lightsaber. Both are facing Kylo who is trying to stop them (or get "his" lightsaber, its really not clear) (planet is about to explode mind you) and Rey tries to fire at him and Kylo force pushes her. Finn stands in battle for quite a while only to get slashed in the end. Finn´s last apearence in the movie is him literally in a coma with Rey looking at him feeling sorry and thinking sorry Finn Disney has to apease the Chinese market. Thats how the movie ends.
That's not sidelining, that's misdirecting. Fan theories based on trailers will always be irrelevant to what actually happens in the movie. Finn losing the fight does absolutely nothing to impact his role as an important character and co-protagonist of that movie. He could have had meaningful development and a meaningful place in the next two movies, but he was not granted that. Because he was actually sidelined in those.
@@damkylan3 You are 100% correct. I stand corrected. Thank you my friend.
Finn could have been the best new character in Star Wars but they messed it up big time.
Finn had to learn a lesson alright. Stop eyeballing that white woman
something with him and phasma would have been so good I would assume phasma is just as much as a victim as him and he seems to have no problems with mowing down storm troopers like they weren’t his brothers and sisters something sad where phasma is just about to change but she doesn’t bc she full hearted believes that’s she’s no a victim this whole thing was such a lose
I liked Finn in TFA but hated how they ruined him in TLJ
Trying to fix things in Ep 9 (I refuse to call it the ROSW) two movies too late...
I LOVED this video because how the sequel trilogy treated Finn has been making me feel irrational anger for years now.
I liked the Rey and Kylo arc in TLJ because it does show off how selfish and hung up on her own trauma Rey is, and this is what made her an intriguing protagonist for me, but the Finn subplot was just kinda pointless.
I feel like if Rian Johnson really wanted to make an anti-industrial military complex message, you could have gotten something more meaningful with, like, minimal tweaking.
Just have Finn say, "Man, I spent my whole life being traumatized over and over again, I saved Rey, and now I'm going to leave the fighting to the people who actually CHOSE to fight and do something for myself", which is a 100% understandable perspective for someone who never got to do ANYTHING for himself, in his life. In fact, if Finn decided to just nope out of that fight it would make him completely understandable and human, because he has as much right to a life and personal desires as anyone else.
Then take him on the mission, have them INTERACT with the actually oppressed people rather watching the symbolically oppressed animals from afar and having Rose exposition dump how we should hate oppression, and have Finn think, "You know what, fuck it, I just can't leave these people who are just like me to suffer, it's not in my nature, so I'm gonna fight to protect them all".
It's completely coherent with Finn's character: he's empathetic, he's traumatized, he oscilates between being proactive and giving up based on his emotional state.
You'd have the exact same arc and the exact same message, but with actual respect and understanding for him and a VERY heroic and understandable conclusion of "I'm going to make sure no one suffers what I had to suffer", which would make him THE most heroic character of the sequels.
Then have the third movie have the dual plotline of Finn taking down Hux and the First Order (Stormtrooper rebellion, perhaps?) and growing into a leadership position in the Rebellion instead of Poe (who is a secondary character and is clearly meant to be Finn's sidekick!), while Rey and Kylo deal with the balance between light and dark and their own personal struggles with redemption and legacy and selfishness. Which also makes sense as an exploration of personal trauma and identity for Rey and Kylo, which was clearly the intention from the start, maybe also through some exploration of a Grey Jedi ideology, but then systemic oppression and its effects for Finn, because he was literally dehumanized his whole life and is fighting a complex that systemically does that to people, turning them into essentially brainwashed enemies to him.
Storm troopers.
Borg.
Picard.
Loved the video!
All this time time and I'm still so disappointed by these movies. Disney made their money but wasted everyone's time
I still say all of the problems started with TFA but man Rian really made all of the problems worse with his weird leaps of logic. I was excited to see Finn and the rest of this new trinity complete their adventures... :(
JJ could've done something but he's never been a finisher of plots, he only likes setting up mystery boxes
He set up a lot of things he had no interest in developing. Like Finn being abducted child NEVER comes back in any meaningful way. The writing never understood what it meant that Finn was a child soldier essentially and JJ made him a janitor & Rian turned him into a clown.
Media also helped ruin Finn, by highlighting the most racist responses to Finn's reveal, when so many Star Wars fans have already loved Lando and Mace Windu previously.
Loved the video
Disney lecturing the world about the evils of capitalism and greed was the best part of the Last Jedi.
Know your lane Disney...
Out of curiosity, what do guys think about the idea of a black Sith Lord?
I’m down for it. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen one but I’m down for it
@@TheFirstOkiro I think there was one in the Old Republic MMO, but I can't think of anyone else. And of course the Second Sister, even if she technically wasn't a Sith
@@Raleyg Vader had a black voice over and now we have Moff Gideon. So a Black Sith Lord is viable but predictable. which is why i was so hyped for Finn. Rey should've lost that first match with Kylo.
He also ruined Finn and Rey's romance as well
Oh yeah since then it's ironic that LEGO STAR WARS actually delivered on making Finn a Jedi. Tho they really should be learning together but it's better than the BILLION DOLLAR MOVIES
Rey's first fight, she loses... a Han. lol
I can’t tell you how shamelessly proud I was of that pun
@@TheFirstOkiro thanks for making these videos. You've expressed a lot of what I and many like me were thinking when we watched this sequel trilogy and saw how they (Rian Johnson & Co.) overtly and unabashedly ruined John Boyega's Finn character, and turned a lot of us off from liking this franchise.
Rian who only had 'Looper' under his belt had no business being picked to direct the sequel.
I'm beginning to wonder if Disney picked him purposely because they knew he would do everything they tell him to do that includes dismantle the first films plots which Disney largely rejected since it centered around interracial paired protagonists.
Well in the end balanced Disney wanted was restored.
@The First Okiro if you get the chance search for this recent video MSNBC uploaded titled 'Carl Sagan Predicted The Mess', I watched that video and some of what Sagan said made me instantly think of this topic here.
Take care and God bless brother.
so you're saying that all of what happened to finn's character is rian's fault???? john boyega seems to have enjoyed TLJ a lot more. all JJ abrams did was make him a sideline character. i feel that Rian gave him somewhat of a story. there was only so much he could do.
They really fuck Finn over. Finn is so much more interesting than Rey.
Personally I think finn at the start of tfa is kind of a coward but here's the rub...thats fine its a character flaw you know the things that every character have to over come?
👍
Eh can care less bout Finn cause at the end of the day none of these characters had any potential. There were just purse puppies.
So why are you even here if you care nothing about any of these characters, moron?
They HAD potential... But that's about it
@@Hibbs4Prez because you’re a sack of shit that’s why.
its no big loss, i dont want star wars becoming black panther anyway
9:11 I’m not gonna say that’s not racist. But what about empire strikes back? Lando was the first black person in Star Wars and no where to be seen on the poster of empire. Same with the prequels. The phantom menace and attack of the clones did not feature Mace Windu. The first black Jedi who is also Samuel L Say What Again Jackson. No where to be found. And you know why no one cares? Because it’s a freaking poster
The first one was from the 80s cant blame them but I think people didn’t mind no black people in the prequels compared to the sequels is because Finn was the very first thing everyone saw after 10 years of no star wars.
Lando is only in the last third of ESB. He has less than ten minutes of screen time. Are you out of your fucking mind to compare his importance to Finn's in TFA?
And Mace got even less time than Lando.
Finn should be treated better in the Disney Star Wars Sequel trilogy un the LUCASFiLM employees had other different ideas with agenda driven feminist identity politics SJW Nonsense!😡♨️🖕🏼🧨🔥💸💩👻☠️💬❌💢🚫⚠️ Even as a Main Character that should be sidelined.!
8:15 thank you! Finally someone else says it. I joke with my friends that Rey didn’t even join the resistance, she was with them for about a week and spent most of the time taking their stuff and running around the galaxy achieving her own goals. It was way more interesting following her than anything the resistance was doing anyways.