And you can _still_ theorhetically use it on something like Scyther to make sure you don't crit and waste all your Sword Dances (as crits ignored *all* status changes, not just ones that would lower the damage)
@@IcE-_-Kidd so currently critical hits take positive stat changes into account- defense drops on opponents and attack boosts on the user. But in Gen 1, all of these stats were ignored. So a +6 scyther getting a crit will not hit as hard as a non crit.
@@iamphoenixfire So The High Speed Pokemon In Gen 1 Getting Crits Was Basically Risking Dealing Less Damage When They Boosted Their Stats Because The Crit Would Activate But Lower Your Crit Boosting Your Damage And Staying Incredibly Fast Would Make For A Great Sweeping Pokemon
Did you forget the part where Focus energy in gen 1 cuts your crit chance by 4 times? I think it's safe to say gen 1 focus energy is the worst move in gen 1.
@@JPRPokeTrainer98 Kind of pointless though when gen1 catching mechanics only need you to get them down to 1/3 HP to max out their catch rate, so there's no real fear of risking a crit KO to whittle them down more.
I disagree greatly on the spicy extract entry. On a fast pokemon with defiant it can be even more horrifying than belly drum since the ally pokemon still gets to move that turn after potentially getting a 4 stage attack boost.
I don't disagree that Spicy Extract has its uses, but those uses are very situational compared to virtually every other Gen 9 move imo. It's not a horrible move, but the bar is too high.
just a side note: Spicy Extract does NOT WORK on allied Defiant/Competitive Pokemon on the game cartridge! Alternatively, you can use Clear Body or Big Pecks to negate the defense drop while still raising the attack stat.
Wow, I’ve literally never heard of Magnetic Flux until right now, which is kind of insane because I even knew about weird stuff like Synchronoise, Electrify, and Fairy Lock (which wasn’t featured for some reason, that move is the worst from Gen 6 imo. At least Ion Deluge and Powder do something another move isn’t objectively infinitely better at, Fairy Lock is just Block at home at home and Klefki learns that move, so… why)
Personally I love especially those gimmick attacks like Tea Time for example. Sure, most of them are per definition worse than other moves, but I like that they exist. It gives the Pokémon more personality and helps with my immersion. Just like Pokémon themselves - not everything has to be competetively :)
Shoutouts to Bide, which an instant lose button in some faster formats, allowing for the opponent to have 1-3 free turns for setup (depending on gen, and whether or not they read)
Something humorous about synchronoise is that Umbreon can learn it. A dark type, learning a psychic type move, that only hits Pokémon that share share a type with it.
Refresh isn't bad in Gen 3 though, Swampert and Milotic sometimes runs it in OU, specially Milotic which is a top tier defensive Pokemon. As you know defensive Pokemon fall to Toxic's fixed damage specially if they run Recover instead of Rest, so Refresh helps Milotic shrug it off.
At least Magic Room can keep your opponent’s Pokemon from surviving a one hit ko with a focus sash. How many times have you run into that frustrating scenario?
The funny thing about Synchronoise. There is one Pokemon where the attack is completely worthless. Eevee can have Synchronoise bred onto it. Meaning you can have an Umbreon with it. Umbreon's a Dark-type. So the only type Umbreon could hit with Synchronoise is immune to it.
Rage is underappreciated in gen 1. It's not good in PvP battles, but excellent in trainer battles. It uses 1 PP and takes care of the entire battle. Great for long battle areas like the dark tunnel. It also lets you ignore the gameboy and get some snacks while the pokemon finishes the battle.
Spicy Extract has the utility that it triggers Kingambit's (or Bisharp's) Defiant, meaning that this one move will raise them to +6. That said, you're not getting it off against the myriad of stupidly powerful Paradox Pokémon and Treasures of Ruin who can just obliterate you before Scovillain can get its move off.
What about focus energy in Gen 1? Instead of doing what is supposed to do, increase crit chance, it actually did the opposite, if I remember correctly?
I don’t get why people complain about Twin Beam. The thing you need to realize is that, yeah it’s weaker than Psychic, but at the level when Girafarig learns it, *no Pokémon can learn Psychic by level up yet.* You don’t hear people complaining about, say, Psybeam the same way.
Gen 1 Focus Energy is dependent on how much an advantage in combat stages you had over the opponent--old crit ignored all changes to attack and defense from both sides, so technically you could use Focus Energy on a Swords Dance whatever and be able to avoid crits that would deal less than your normal hits. Not that this is viable at all; just playing devil's trolly advocate against those saying Focus Energy was useless--it just wasn't useful for its intended purpose.
What funny is on the anime they used kinesis like it could block all kind of attack But in the game definitly the most useless thing EVER nobody used that sh*t
Imprision does have a use in VGC when you want to dick around opposing Trick Room teams for shits and giggles, most notably on Chandelure Snatch would've been good in a post Instant-Prankster Tailwind world in also VGC, but by that point it is gone
Oddly enough, I use Spicy Extract in the game as more of a gamble setup, but once I get to around to playing online, I'm gonna use it on Special Attacking enemies.
tbh i can see a reason to use grudge in gen 3 (only against AI tho) you sacrifice the grudge pokemon to get in a pokemon for setting up with swords dance or these moves this is still a terrible idea, but thats that ig
I think mud sports and water sport may have a really small niche in VGC but...i'm maybe selling it way too much lol The rooms introduced n gen 5 could have a niche too but...well at least the one that stops items But all of this is only useful for competitive, in the adventure, it's pointless, barely no duo battle nor foes holding items, so you're better off using embargo
I disagree with Nightmare, in the Gen where sleepstall is prevelant, it's very useful for keeping people from Sleep Talk stalling. Plus it can be good for added damage and combos well with Pokemon like Noctowl and Stantler in game. It's your best option since Dream Eater is a post game ONLY move. And later in the post game mind you. It's actually decently accessable in Gen 2. Even mons like Jynx and Starmie can learn it.
Refresh was actually a good move in Gen 3 competitive. If you had a Pokemon that wanted to stay on the field for long periods of time, like MIlotic and the Lati twins, that along with Recover gave you extra sticking power.
To add to that, this was also the reason why Snatch saw niche usage in gen 3. It allowed pokemon to stop refresh attempts, healing attempts and even to steal calm minds and the like. Made for some decent mindgames. Also refresh still sees sparse usage in later gens on stuff like the Latias
But it also prevented you from using a coverage move. I remember as a kid, playing gen 3 and trying to run Latias with Recover, Refresh, Calm Mind, and Mist Ball. I ended up swapping out Refresh for a coverage move.
@@Rayuzx Perhaps I should've specified, but I was talking specifically about the Battle Frontier. Besides, calm down kid, I wasn't saying you were wrong. Even if I was, there's no need to get triggered over it. From one Pokemon fan to another, that's the type of behavior that gets you mocked.
So, are we just going to ignore Smog? A 20 BP move as accurate as Focus Miss with a 40% chance to poison? Say what you will about Constrict, at least it had full accuracy.
You forgot the most fun part of synchronoise. Umbreon can learn it. A dark type with a psychic type move that can only hit Pokémon of the same type. Also it can only hit a total of 16 Pokémon for super effective damage.
Fun fact : there's a meta called National Dex on Showdown, where every Pokemon is available. National Dex AG is the no-bans version of that, with the only rule being no endless battle. There, there's a teamstyle known as Revivecats where Liepards spam Prankster Assist Revival Blessing until the opponent is stalled to death, through stuff like Toxic or Toxic Spikes
In competitive gen 2 nightmare is actually a solid move as pokemon often spam rest + sleep talk due to sleep talk being able to call rest and restore all your hp. Nightmare takes advantage of that to drain their hp 25% at a time along with any additional attacks that pokemon throws off. The most common user I see is Starmie Unless you arent including competitive in which case yeah it's pretty pointless
@@reesecarltonI just realized terastallization would have been a super minor buff for Synchronoise, since you could terastallize to a different type and hit that type with Synchronoise.
- Nightmare is actually pretty decent on certain Gen 2 competitive sets. With Rest being so common, it's useful for punishing walls that like to fall asleep - Assist, Refresh, and Imprison were only honorable mentions in this video, but all of these moves have great use cases in competitive, especially Imprison in Doubles to stop Trick Room. Assist is the most gimmicky of the three by far, but there's a reason that move is banned in Gen 9 National Dex Singles - As far as Gen 6 support moves go, Mat Block isn't actually that bad in Gen 6 VGC. Greninja's good Speed meant you could get some use out of it - Twin Beam breaks Sashes and Sturdy, and could potentially be a base 120 Psychic move on something with Technician, so you could really go with a lot worse - Quite a few garbage moves have some genuine good use cases with a Z-Crystal glued on. Z-Splash is +3 Atk, Z-Conversion/Celebrate/Happy Hour are omniboosts, etc. Granted, these are only single-time buffs, but you can't knock something like that
well, actually the reason why assist is banned is because it doesn't exist anymore, so there is not anymore a list of move that cannot be called (aka revival blessing). Natdex is a very weird and broken metagame because it has a lot of unintended mechanics and interactions
In Poxemon X (and only X) there is one in game use for syncronoise. If you want to catch seviper without trading, it appears on route 8 in a horde battle with 4 zangoose. By the time you defeat the zangoose one by one, they will have knocked out the seviper. A normal type syncronoise user will solve that problem. There are no poison types that learn it, so the reverse does not work in Y.
I haven't actually played X or Y but after some quick research it looks like there's 5 normal types that can learn it, however there's literally only the whismur (and evos but they learn it later than whismur does) or kecleon in X. I don't know if it's even possible to get those Pokémon at this point, but even if you could you'd have to get whismur to level 41 or kecleon to 58. You'd be spending hours grinding just to learn a terrible move on a bad Pokémon only to catch another bad Pokémon. Eevee can learn it through breeding but highly doubt you can breed in X as early as level 15.
@@Defnotdiablo Whismur can be found in Connecting Cave just before route 8, but it's well under level 41. Pretty sure I waited until later in the game and went back, but it's been a while.
@@carlwheezer623 blizzard is still the best even after nerf, its not only a special hyper beam with little drawback but it has 10% chance to kill whatever pokemon no matter how bulky they are in 1 turn
But that would make it an effective base 100 move and just straight up better than Psychic. A base 45 per hit should be its max, and even that would make it arguably the better pick still for the anit-saish/sturdy potential. Base 40 power per hit really is probably just about the right balance.
@@EmeralBookwise I disagree. Given Twin Beam’s much more limited availability, I think it deserves to be better than Psychic, especially since Twin Beam lacks a secondary effect anyway.
There are some mistakes... Nightmare was super useful vs Rest Tanks or with a lucky Sleep set up, since you only need to use Nightmare ONCE and then whichever move the following turns, that was the real combination, you wasn't able to take 25% HP from Chansey or Snorlax for instance so easily with special moves.
Arguably, Nightmare and Refresh have a use when battling other players. Refresh can be good on stallbreakers to stop stall Pokémon from statusing it when setting up. Nightmare can be good in Gen 2 battles because of how often Rest Pokémon are used.
@@atmylimitrgggh it's literally teh reason Liepard is banned from the National Dex format on Smogon, Prankster Assist lets Liepard use Revival Blessing
Even nowadays rest is pretty common in battles so nightmare can be useful. Another way to use it would be combined with sleep powder, spore or hypnosis.
13:03 Zeraora’s signature move has a similar effect. Plasma Fists, in addition to dealing damage, turns all normal moves into electric type moves, which is another reason why it’s good because Zeraora has Volt Absorb
Grudge actually has some utilities and has seen niche use. The main reason you would use it over destiny bond is to get a clean swap to an ally without your opponent doing the same. You can use the knowlege of the move drained to stat boost.
Spicy extract is probably the most unique "bad move" due to it's application with a new item also added in gen 9: Mirror Herb People use spicy extract on something they want to eliminate or a speciall attacker that doesnt benefit from the attack boost and copy said change with mirror herb, usually on a partner Dragapult or a mon with Clear body so that it only copies the attack boost, before quickly decimating the threat
Sure several of these moves were bad, but the fact he kept on going calling all of them outright terrible is also wrong. There are niches around several moves that make them legit usable, sure they're very specific at times, that's why they're called niche lol. The video was good but also a bit misinformed, like how can you call imprison bad when it's actually very strong in a vgc format?
Natural Gift: "You're giving up the chance to use an actual item for a once per battle attack" So... Z Moves but for coverage? Like a Z Hidden Power? Also Snatch has seen some competitive use as it can steal all positive status moves, not just stat increasing ones. Meaning it could steal Light Screen or Tailwind but not Thunder Wave. In VGC this is potentially very useful, i've seen a couple of Incineroars running it.
Here’s my idea for kinesis: Just make it a completely different move. Psychic type special move, 70 base power, but it does super-effective damage to steel types. It’s lower BP than Psychic and Psyshock so they’d both retain niches. This would basically be a 3rd stab option for Alakazam to potentially smack steel types with at the cost of more general power
@@demi-femme4821 Yo perfect point, especially cause FB is awful to rely on and steel types with 4x resistance or immunity to psychic could now wall it even better unless it went with coverage specifically for them
I'm surprised that Generation 1's Focus Energy wasn't mentioned. The move was bugged, so rather than significantly raising your critical hit chance, it significantly lowered it.
Spicy Extract might be workable for use on physical walls like Steelix or Zazamenta, but why not bring in a specially based equivalent in response? Anyway, given this video, I think we all know what's next coming
Tea Time can have some legitimate use. If you lead with Polteageist in doubles and use it, you could make your opponent waste their healing berry or a resistance berry right at the start. Sure it's pretty situational but it's far from being bad or useless
Luckily I read some comments about moves like Refresh, Nightmare and a few others to be useful, but don't forget about Natural Gift. A few mons actually used this competitively, especially Gen 6, prime example Talonflame. To top it off, in Draft League format it got used a lot, usually a way to abuse x4 weaknesses.
magic room was very useful since it could nullify drives for techno blast, gems that boosted damage, silvally memory, plates. type enhancing items, and other in-battle effect items. most of the moves you brought up are trash, but some had very good uses and were made to help with mechanics of the generation the move was from like moves like water/mud sport which were made for double battles. in gen 1, speed was heavily used in determining crit hits. so constrict could be very useful if put on a tank-ish pokemon like tentacruel with good hp and special stats. still horrible outside of gen 1 though
Fun fact in gen 1, i believe it was almost IMPOSSIBLE for Kadabra to even learn Kinesis. Since in RB, they forgot to put it on the learnset, so it was only avaliable through Metronome. And in Yellow they put it as a base move on WILD Kadabra, meaning the Abra you evolved would never learn it.
Twin Beam has utility. You trade 10 base power to break things like disguise, sash or substitute. There's very few special moves that hit more than once, so it has a really cool niche there, even if it in a flat gamestate is just 11% weaker than psychic.
What about Razor wind in gen 1? A 80 base power flying move sounds great!....oh wait, it's a normal type move? And you have to have to waste an entire turn to charge it? Oh, and after all that it has only 75% chance to hit? At least constrict was meant to be a low level move, what is the point of razor wind?
I actually really enjoyed Powder, if more bug types got it they wouldn't have to fear lit matches anymore. So many fun, mostly useless moves gone now. It wouldn't take much effort to retool a lot of these moves into functionality rather than obsolescence.
I would beg to differ on Imprison being bad. In doubles, especially VGC, most Pokemon will have Protect in one of their move slots. Using Imprison with a Pokemon packing Protect itself will prevent their opponent from using the move.
This is defensive starmie erasure! you can build starmie bulky with a recover build and camoflauge can save you from a super effective hit that may have killed you otherwise
Guard split actually had a niche competitive use in VGC. You used it on an eviolite chansey that then used minimize to try to win by stalling the timer lol
Great video Surprised that Snore was included as I always used it with Snorlax in Leaf Green with Rest over Sleep Talk since Sleep Talk would sometimes pick Rest again and fail The rest were interesting to hear about Had no idea Constrict was that bad from Gen 1
Spicy Extract on an opposing Pokemon who's a Special Attacker might as well be a free -2 to their Def. Use Spicy Extract on someone like Magnezone, who's got a high Def and SpAtk, and you got yourself a stew going
I kind of miss Nightmare. Sure it was awful, but it was like, one of the top 10 funniest moves. It's like Curse but instead of the downside being losing half your health, the downside is potentially doing literally nothing if the target wakes up that turn or the next one. Still though, I feel like they could have done something to rework Nightmare. Maybe make it a sort of "Badly Poisoned" equivelant for the Sleep status?
7:50 as someone who’s been DESTROYED by a Mew using Imprison + Transform (leaving me down to Struggle), let me tell you, Imprison is THE WORK OF THE DEVIL 😭
![[Limbus Company - Teaser] Season5 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8anKuEeZLeI/mqdefault.jpg)
Use code JPRPOKETRAINER60 to get 60% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3W7TxmO !
Video idea pokemon that get moves that completely change there lore like primape getting meditate
Assist is a good move. I've won some battles pulling assist out my ass
If we're counting oversights/glitches, then Gen I's Focus Energy actually lowers your crit chance, rather than increasing it.
And you can _still_ theorhetically use it on something like Scyther to make sure you don't crit and waste all your Sword Dances (as crits ignored *all* status changes, not just ones that would lower the damage)
@@robertlupa8273 Further Explanation Please?
@@IcE-_-Kidd so currently critical hits take positive stat changes into account- defense drops on opponents and attack boosts on the user. But in Gen 1, all of these stats were ignored. So a +6 scyther getting a crit will not hit as hard as a non crit.
@@iamphoenixfire So The High Speed Pokemon In Gen 1 Getting Crits Was Basically Risking Dealing Less Damage When They Boosted Their Stats Because The Crit Would Activate But Lower Your Crit Boosting Your Damage And Staying Incredibly Fast Would Make For A Great Sweeping Pokemon
Gotta love how gen 1 is such a mess that lowering your own crit rate can be a benefit in some circumstances
Did you forget the part where Focus energy in gen 1 cuts your crit chance by 4 times? I think it's safe to say gen 1 focus energy is the worst move in gen 1.
unironically could be useful for catching Pokemon tho lol
@@JPRPokeTrainer98 But why would you do that when it's trivially easy to just duplicate Master Balls?
@@tdawgmaster1729 Crits in gen 1 ignores attack buffs so scyther could use it
@@tdawgmaster1729
Duplicate THESE balls
Got eem
@@JPRPokeTrainer98 Kind of pointless though when gen1 catching mechanics only need you to get them down to 1/3 HP to max out their catch rate, so there's no real fear of risking a crit KO to whittle them down more.
4:00 Nightmare is actually usable in gen 2 competitive because rest + sleep talk is so common. it's not great, but it can force a switch sometimes
I disagree greatly on the spicy extract entry. On a fast pokemon with defiant it can be even more horrifying than belly drum since the ally pokemon still gets to move that turn after potentially getting a 4 stage attack boost.
I don't disagree that Spicy Extract has its uses, but those uses are very situational compared to virtually every other Gen 9 move imo. It's not a horrible move, but the bar is too high.
just a side note:
Spicy Extract does NOT WORK on allied Defiant/Competitive Pokemon on the game cartridge! Alternatively, you can use Clear Body or Big Pecks to negate the defense drop while still raising the attack stat.
Wow, I’ve literally never heard of Magnetic Flux until right now, which is kind of insane because I even knew about weird stuff like Synchronoise, Electrify, and Fairy Lock (which wasn’t featured for some reason, that move is the worst from Gen 6 imo. At least Ion Deluge and Powder do something another move isn’t objectively infinitely better at, Fairy Lock is just Block at home at home and Klefki learns that move, so… why)
"Timmy's birthday invitational in 2014" I'm CACKLING
Personally I love especially those gimmick attacks like Tea Time for example. Sure, most of them are per definition worse than other moves, but I like that they exist. It gives the Pokémon more personality and helps with my immersion. Just like Pokémon themselves - not everything has to be competetively :)
Spotlight can be useful if partner pokemon uses move which damages random enemy.
I misread the title as "the worst pokemon movies in every generation" 😭 but I guess that could be a great video topic
Teleport in Gen 1 literally had no use in combat and failed for some reason against wild pokemon
Shoutouts to Bide, which an instant lose button in some faster formats, allowing for the opponent to have 1-3 free turns for setup (depending on gen, and whether or not they read)
Something humorous about synchronoise is that Umbreon can learn it. A dark type, learning a psychic type move, that only hits Pokémon that share share a type with it.
Refresh isn't bad in Gen 3 though, Swampert and Milotic sometimes runs it in OU, specially Milotic which is a top tier defensive Pokemon. As you know defensive Pokemon fall to Toxic's fixed damage specially if they run Recover instead of Rest, so Refresh helps Milotic shrug it off.
"assist" revive cats, dive cats, and gen 4 pre nerf due to figuring something out in the code lucario would like to speak
I’m gonna defend Snore.
I found a VERY niche use on Meloetta.
Serene Grace turns it into a 60% flinch STAB attack.
At least Magic Room can keep your opponent’s Pokemon from surviving a one hit ko with a focus sash. How many times have you run into that frustrating scenario?
Love that the footage from Gen 4 is just TFS Soul Silver Nuzlocke
The funny thing about Synchronoise. There is one Pokemon where the attack is completely worthless. Eevee can have Synchronoise bred onto it. Meaning you can have an Umbreon with it. Umbreon's a Dark-type. So the only type Umbreon could hit with Synchronoise is immune to it.
if constict had a 100% chance to lower speed. the constrict wrap combo would be not the worst.
Rage is underappreciated in gen 1. It's not good in PvP battles, but excellent in trainer battles. It uses 1 PP and takes care of the entire battle. Great for long battle areas like the dark tunnel. It also lets you ignore the gameboy and get some snacks while the pokemon finishes the battle.
5:52 role play is good for gimmick teams and is fun to use
Oh, Hold Hands WAS going to have a decent effect, to increase all allies Crit Ratio.
Roleplay was used in Vgc.
Prankster Thunderus can use Roleplay on Primal Kyogre and setting up Primordialsee again against oposing Primal Groudons.
Not only was Constrict very bad in Gen 1, it was also NERFED in Gen 2 going from a 33% chance to lower speed to a **10%** chance.🤦♂️
Splash was quite powerful in Gen 7 because Z-Splash raises your Attack stat 3 stages.
Huh, had no idea Magic Powder was considered bad. Then again, my Hatterene knows a dark type move.
ion deluge made some cool strats with a lightingrod and a boomburst
assist is niche but useful with imprison being insanely useful in vgc formats.
Spicy Extract has the utility that it triggers Kingambit's (or Bisharp's) Defiant, meaning that this one move will raise them to +6. That said, you're not getting it off against the myriad of stupidly powerful Paradox Pokémon and Treasures of Ruin who can just obliterate you before Scovillain can get its move off.
Defiant doesn't activate if an ally lowers the Pokémon's stats. So unless you want the opposing Bisharp to get +6 Attack Spicy Extract is pretty bad
What about focus energy in Gen 1? Instead of doing what is supposed to do, increase crit chance, it actually did the opposite, if I remember correctly?
I don’t get why people complain about Twin Beam. The thing you need to realize is that, yeah it’s weaker than Psychic, but at the level when Girafarig learns it, *no Pokémon can learn Psychic by level up yet.* You don’t hear people complaining about, say, Psybeam the same way.
Gen 1 Focus Energy is dependent on how much an advantage in combat stages you had over the opponent--old crit ignored all changes to attack and defense from both sides, so technically you could use Focus Energy on a Swords Dance whatever and be able to avoid crits that would deal less than your normal hits.
Not that this is viable at all; just playing devil's trolly advocate against those saying Focus Energy was useless--it just wasn't useful for its intended purpose.
Water Sport and Mud Sport were good combo for cute contests in Pokémon Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald.
What funny is on the anime they used kinesis like it could block all kind of attack
But in the game definitly the most useless thing EVER nobody used that sh*t
Imprision does have a use in VGC when you want to dick around opposing Trick Room teams for shits and giggles, most notably on Chandelure
Snatch would've been good in a post Instant-Prankster Tailwind world in also VGC, but by that point it is gone
Oddly enough, I use Spicy Extract in the game as more of a gamble setup, but once I get to around to playing online, I'm gonna use it on Special Attacking enemies.
Whoa, I had no idea Spotlight even existed.
tbh i can see a reason to use grudge in gen 3 (only against AI tho)
you sacrifice the grudge pokemon to get in a pokemon for setting up with swords dance or these moves
this is still a terrible idea, but thats that ig
Wonder Room, huh? It'd be a shame if EMBARGO existed.
I never understood how camouflage worked since every time the NPC uses it, it fails. So I can definitely understand it being on here.
I used the darkrai nightmare combo before. it was fun
If you remake this I would include focus energy gen 1.
I think mud sports and water sport may have a really small niche in VGC but...i'm maybe selling it way too much lol
The rooms introduced n gen 5 could have a niche too but...well at least the one that stops items
But all of this is only useful for competitive, in the adventure, it's pointless, barely no duo battle nor foes holding items, so you're better off using embargo
I disagree with Nightmare, in the Gen where sleepstall is prevelant, it's very useful for keeping people from Sleep Talk stalling. Plus it can be good for added damage and combos well with Pokemon like Noctowl and Stantler in game. It's your best option since Dream Eater is a post game ONLY move. And later in the post game mind you. It's actually decently accessable in Gen 2. Even mons like Jynx and Starmie can learn it.
8:08 What about Foresight?
Does anybody know the name of the song that’s playing at 11:23?
Shots and goggles. I am stealing that!
Me sitting here waiting for splash to be mention 👁️👄👁️
Red haired step kids...rival from silver has entered the chat
Did you seriously skip over gen 5 completely and ignore quash?! Horrible excuse for a move AND it was a TM that took the spot of drain punch.
Refresh was actually a good move in Gen 3 competitive. If you had a Pokemon that wanted to stay on the field for long periods of time, like MIlotic and the Lati twins, that along with Recover gave you extra sticking power.
To add to that, this was also the reason why Snatch saw niche usage in gen 3. It allowed pokemon to stop refresh attempts, healing attempts and even to steal calm minds and the like. Made for some decent mindgames.
Also refresh still sees sparse usage in later gens on stuff like the Latias
Also Funbro exists
But it also prevented you from using a coverage move. I remember as a kid, playing gen 3 and trying to run Latias with Recover, Refresh, Calm Mind, and Mist Ball. I ended up swapping out Refresh for a coverage move.
@@augustuscaesar8287 A.)You couldn't used Dragon Pulse, so you don't have to worry about immunities.
B.) That's why you have 2-5 other Pokémon.
@@Rayuzx Perhaps I should've specified, but I was talking specifically about the Battle Frontier. Besides, calm down kid, I wasn't saying you were wrong. Even if I was, there's no need to get triggered over it. From one Pokemon fan to another, that's the type of behavior that gets you mocked.
So, are we just going to ignore Smog? A 20 BP move as accurate as Focus Miss with a 40% chance to poison? Say what you will about Constrict, at least it had full accuracy.
I always confused this with Poison Gas because they’re just Poison Powder/Toxic but worse except one of them does damage.
Supersonic is also just a less accurate confuse ray
@@robloxplays4322 especially pre gen4 when was 55% accurate. Why would anyone ever want to rely on those odds?
They may as well make it 100 accurate with 60 base power and lower the poison chance in exchange.
Genuinely, Smog has more use. Drowzee gets some early game usage out of fishing for poison.
You forgot the most fun part of synchronoise. Umbreon can learn it. A dark type with a psychic type move that can only hit Pokémon of the same type. Also it can only hit a total of 16 Pokémon for super effective damage.
Don't worry, Umbreon just needs to have access to Miracle Eye and all of it's problems would be fixed
Y'all remember inverse battles?
Synchronoise might be use able there
It also could be useful in Terastalization
@@sephikong8323Your comment had me in tears for a minute 😂
What pokemon can it hit super effectively?
Assist is an insane move. Gen 3 only lacked the tools to abuse it.
Fun fact : there's a meta called National Dex on Showdown, where every Pokemon is available. National Dex AG is the no-bans version of that, with the only rule being no endless battle. There, there's a teamstyle known as Revivecats where Liepards spam Prankster Assist Revival Blessing until the opponent is stalled to death, through stuff like Toxic or Toxic Spikes
@@andreaseverin1346 it's fairly new strat but the older start is Divecats which makes you immune to all attacks
Liepard has enjoyed significant competitive success in formats where it can abuse Assist to its full potential
Or maybe, the tools are what made it good to begin with
@@andreaseverin1346yeah but it’s a little cheap to say that because these moves don’t exist at the same time. Presumably if they did, it wouldn’t work
In competitive gen 2 nightmare is actually a solid move as pokemon often spam rest + sleep talk due to sleep talk being able to call rest and restore all your hp. Nightmare takes advantage of that to drain their hp 25% at a time along with any additional attacks that pokemon throws off. The most common user I see is Starmie
Unless you arent including competitive in which case yeah it's pretty pointless
I was literally just going to say this, it's a certified hood classic on jynx
Same, was also about to say this lol
@@beanburrito4405 Me too lol
I was gonna say this
Imagine a Nightmare + curse Haunter lol, that's 58% max HP per turn, right? Or is it 25% + 25%?
Every time I hear about Hold Hands I think about that gif of a hacked shiny groudon and kyogre preforming that move together. It’s hysterical.
Another note on Synchronoize, Umbreon can learn it. Enough said
the more I learn about this move the more I shake my head
@@JPRPokeTrainer98 truly the move of all time
@@reesecarltonI just realized terastallization would have been a super minor buff for Synchronoise, since you could terastallize to a different type and hit that type with Synchronoise.
@@chrayez Yes with your offensive behemoth, Umbreon
@@reesecarlton Truly the most offensive pokemon of all time. Tackle into Gholdengo, Guaranteed OHKO
The most hilarious thing about Constrict is that it was actually nerfed in gen 2. It went from having a 33% chance of lowering speed to a 10% chance.
- Nightmare is actually pretty decent on certain Gen 2 competitive sets. With Rest being so common, it's useful for punishing walls that like to fall asleep
- Assist, Refresh, and Imprison were only honorable mentions in this video, but all of these moves have great use cases in competitive, especially Imprison in Doubles to stop Trick Room. Assist is the most gimmicky of the three by far, but there's a reason that move is banned in Gen 9 National Dex Singles
- As far as Gen 6 support moves go, Mat Block isn't actually that bad in Gen 6 VGC. Greninja's good Speed meant you could get some use out of it
- Twin Beam breaks Sashes and Sturdy, and could potentially be a base 120 Psychic move on something with Technician, so you could really go with a lot worse
- Quite a few garbage moves have some genuine good use cases with a Z-Crystal glued on. Z-Splash is +3 Atk, Z-Conversion/Celebrate/Happy Hour are omniboosts, etc. Granted, these are only single-time buffs, but you can't knock something like that
Yeah I was surprised at some of these mentions. Assist, Refresh, and Twin Beam in particular as they all have their uses.
well, actually the reason why assist is banned is because it doesn't exist anymore, so there is not anymore a list of move that cannot be called (aka revival blessing). Natdex is a very weird and broken metagame because it has a lot of unintended mechanics and interactions
In Poxemon X (and only X) there is one in game use for syncronoise. If you want to catch seviper without trading, it appears on route 8 in a horde battle with 4 zangoose. By the time you defeat the zangoose one by one, they will have knocked out the seviper. A normal type syncronoise user will solve that problem. There are no poison types that learn it, so the reverse does not work in Y.
I haven't actually played X or Y but after some quick research it looks like there's 5 normal types that can learn it, however there's literally only the whismur (and evos but they learn it later than whismur does) or kecleon in X. I don't know if it's even possible to get those Pokémon at this point, but even if you could you'd have to get whismur to level 41 or kecleon to 58. You'd be spending hours grinding just to learn a terrible move on a bad Pokémon only to catch another bad Pokémon.
Eevee can learn it through breeding but highly doubt you can breed in X as early as level 15.
@@Defnotdiablo Whismur can be found in Connecting Cave just before route 8, but it's well under level 41. Pretty sure I waited until later in the game and went back, but it's been a while.
If we do one for the Best Moves in Every Generation, Gen 1's will be either Body Slam, Hyper Beam, or Blizzard
If you’re doing specifically the Japanese gen 1 then Blizzard by far (had a 30% freeze rate and not 10% like in the western releases)
@@carlwheezer623 blizzard is still the best even after nerf, its not only a special hyper beam with little drawback but it has 10% chance to kill whatever pokemon no matter how bulky they are in 1 turn
What about wrap/fire spin?
The best moves in gen 1 we're wrap and bind
Nope. It's Amnesia. Anything but Amnesia would be wrong.
The advantage of Twin Beam is breaking sashes/sturdy but it really should have been 50 bp
But that would make it an effective base 100 move and just straight up better than Psychic. A base 45 per hit should be its max, and even that would make it arguably the better pick still for the anit-saish/sturdy potential. Base 40 power per hit really is probably just about the right balance.
@@EmeralBookwise I disagree. Given Twin Beam’s much more limited availability, I think it deserves to be better than Psychic, especially since Twin Beam lacks a secondary effect anyway.
@Martha’s Against Humanity : it's secondary effect is being able to bypass sash/sturdy.
no, that'd be pretty stupid.
@@EmeralBookwise I mean, dragon darts exist, why not make it 50 as well?
There are some mistakes... Nightmare was super useful vs Rest Tanks or with a lucky Sleep set up, since you only need to use Nightmare ONCE and then whichever move the following turns, that was the real combination, you wasn't able to take 25% HP from Chansey or Snorlax for instance so easily with special moves.
Arguably, Nightmare and Refresh have a use when battling other players. Refresh can be good on stallbreakers to stop stall Pokémon from statusing it when setting up. Nightmare can be good in Gen 2 battles because of how often Rest Pokémon are used.
and assist, assist + prankster was a stupid combo
@@atmylimitrgggh it's literally teh reason Liepard is banned from the National Dex format on Smogon, Prankster Assist lets Liepard use Revival Blessing
Even nowadays rest is pretty common in battles so nightmare can be useful. Another way to use it would be combined with sleep powder, spore or hypnosis.
13:03 Zeraora’s signature move has a similar effect. Plasma Fists, in addition to dealing damage, turns all normal moves into electric type moves, which is another reason why it’s good because Zeraora has Volt Absorb
Grudge actually has some utilities and has seen niche use. The main reason you would use it over destiny bond is to get a clean swap to an ally without your opponent doing the same. You can use the knowlege of the move drained to stat boost.
Spicy extract is probably the most unique "bad move" due to it's application with a new item also added in gen 9: Mirror Herb
People use spicy extract on something they want to eliminate or a speciall attacker that doesnt benefit from the attack boost and copy said change with mirror herb, usually on a partner Dragapult or a mon with Clear body so that it only copies the attack boost, before quickly decimating the threat
You really mentioned refresh, a move that has seen competitive use
Assist aswell, literally one of the best moves to ever exist with liepard abusing it with strats like dive cats. 💀 and also nightmare
Sure several of these moves were bad, but the fact he kept on going calling all of them outright terrible is also wrong. There are niches around several moves that make them legit usable, sure they're very specific at times, that's why they're called niche lol. The video was good but also a bit misinformed, like how can you call imprison bad when it's actually very strong in a vgc format?
the niche entirely small though
Twister has always hit in the air, there was a Stadium 2 trainer who only used Dig and Fly, Twister was one of the ways to beat his fliers.
Actually, Twin Beam can have an advantage over Psychic, if attacking an opponent with a Focus Sash or the Sturdy ability.
Natural Gift: "You're giving up the chance to use an actual item for a once per battle attack"
So... Z Moves but for coverage? Like a Z Hidden Power?
Also Snatch has seen some competitive use as it can steal all positive status moves, not just stat increasing ones. Meaning it could steal Light Screen or Tailwind but not Thunder Wave. In VGC this is potentially very useful, i've seen a couple of Incineroars running it.
Here’s my idea for kinesis: Just make it a completely different move. Psychic type special move, 70 base power, but it does super-effective damage to steel types. It’s lower BP than Psychic and Psyshock so they’d both retain niches. This would basically be a 3rd stab option for Alakazam to potentially smack steel types with at the cost of more general power
It'd also let Zam drop Focus Blast in favour of another move.
@@demi-femme4821 Yo perfect point, especially cause FB is awful to rely on and steel types with 4x resistance or immunity to psychic could now wall it even better unless it went with coverage specifically for them
@@demi-femme4821 It would never drop FB - most Psychic types wouldn't, either, because it hits Dark types.
Makes more sense too, you’re bending metal
@@TWLSpark Dazzling Gleam can cover that.
I'm surprised that Generation 1's Focus Energy wasn't mentioned. The move was bugged, so rather than significantly raising your critical hit chance, it significantly lowered it.
Mat Block was actually used on Smeargle in Gen 7. It won a Regional with Z-Conversion Porygon-Z in 2017
real talk nightmare is actually quite useful in gen 2 competitive singles
Spicy Extract might be workable for use on physical walls like Steelix or Zazamenta, but why not bring in a specially based equivalent in response? Anyway, given this video, I think we all know what's next coming
Tea Time can have some legitimate use. If you lead with Polteageist in doubles and use it, you could make your opponent waste their healing berry or a resistance berry right at the start. Sure it's pretty situational but it's far from being bad or useless
Luckily I read some comments about moves like Refresh, Nightmare and a few others to be useful, but don't forget about Natural Gift. A few mons actually used this competitively, especially Gen 6, prime example Talonflame. To top it off, in Draft League format it got used a lot, usually a way to abuse x4 weaknesses.
How is constrict & kinesis worse than splash? Splash doesn’t even do anything!
magic room was very useful since it could nullify drives for techno blast, gems that boosted damage, silvally memory, plates. type enhancing items, and other in-battle effect items. most of the moves you brought up are trash, but some had very good uses and were made to help with mechanics of the generation the move was from like moves like water/mud sport which were made for double battles. in gen 1, speed was heavily used in determining crit hits. so constrict could be very useful if put on a tank-ish pokemon like tentacruel with good hp and special stats. still horrible outside of gen 1 though
Idk why but I love Happy Hour, Hold hands and celebration. I know they’re pretty much useless but they feel special to have.
Fun fact in gen 1, i believe it was almost IMPOSSIBLE for Kadabra to even learn Kinesis. Since in RB, they forgot to put it on the learnset, so it was only avaliable through Metronome. And in Yellow they put it as a base move on WILD Kadabra, meaning the Abra you evolved would never learn it.
Twin Beam has utility.
You trade 10 base power to break things like disguise, sash or substitute.
There's very few special moves that hit more than once, so it has a really cool niche there, even if it in a flat gamestate is just 11% weaker than psychic.
What about Razor wind in gen 1? A 80 base power flying move sounds great!....oh wait, it's a normal type move? And you have to have to waste an entire turn to charge it?
Oh, and after all that it has only 75% chance to hit?
At least constrict was meant to be a low level move, what is the point of razor wind?
I actually really enjoyed Powder, if more bug types got it they wouldn't have to fear lit matches anymore. So many fun, mostly useless moves gone now. It wouldn't take much effort to retool a lot of these moves into functionality rather than obsolescence.
I would beg to differ on Imprison being bad. In doubles, especially VGC, most Pokemon will have Protect in one of their move slots. Using Imprison with a Pokemon packing Protect itself will prevent their opponent from using the move.
This is defensive starmie erasure! you can build starmie bulky with a recover build and camoflauge can save you from a super effective hit that may have killed you otherwise
Isn't Reflect Type used for that instead?
Imprison is actually really good in vgc. You can use it to stop Pokemon from using common moves like protect and trick room.
9:04)
TFS join Ash in the, "Only Trainers who can Effectively use the Chikorita Line," Club
MUHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR STAYK!!!
Guard split actually had a niche competitive use in VGC. You used it on an eviolite chansey that then used minimize to try to win by stalling the timer lol
for spicy extract, you can use it into dragapult with clear body and give it a free swords dance
Great video
Surprised that Snore was included as I always used it with Snorlax in Leaf Green with Rest over Sleep Talk since Sleep Talk would sometimes pick Rest again and fail
The rest were interesting to hear about
Had no idea Constrict was that bad from Gen 1
14:05 Happy hour is more of a "utility" move than a bad one, as it gets you more prize money.
Spicy Extract on an opposing Pokemon who's a Special Attacker might as well be a free -2 to their Def. Use Spicy Extract on someone like Magnezone, who's got a high Def and SpAtk, and you got yourself a stew going
I kind of miss Nightmare. Sure it was awful, but it was like, one of the top 10 funniest moves. It's like Curse but instead of the downside being losing half your health, the downside is potentially doing literally nothing if the target wakes up that turn or the next one. Still though, I feel like they could have done something to rework Nightmare. Maybe make it a sort of "Badly Poisoned" equivelant for the Sleep status?
7:50 as someone who’s been DESTROYED by a Mew using Imprison + Transform (leaving me down to Struggle), let me tell you, Imprison is THE WORK OF THE DEVIL 😭
Imprison is fire, especially in VGC, being able to seal stuff like trick room or tailwind, or encore and other stuff like that
Gen 1: splash
Gen 2: splash
Gen 3: splash
Gen 4: splash
Gen 5: splash
Gen 6: splash
Gen 7: splash
Gen 8: splash
Gen 9: splash