The biggest fundamental change I’ve made primarily as a corporate audio tech is the idea that the PA does NOT need to be at unity. Having gone to college for studio audio and learning a more traditional old school way of doing sound, I went many years with the mindset that the speakers must be at unity coming off the board in order to be “correct” A few years ago I came to the realization that honestly nobody cares how anything looks on the board as long as it sounds good without feedback. This has made SUCH a huge difference to how I mix and now I am able to properly gain stage with records and stream in mind, with my inputs and sends to records/streams sitting at unity while I run my PA fader(s) as low as I need it to be loud enough without feedback. Since i started doing this, I don’t have to EQ nearly as much to prevent feedback and everybody always compliments how loud and clear my records/streams/zooms are. It has truly been a game changer for me and I don’t hate mixing lavs nearly as much as I used to
I run audio for my tiny Southern church, which has a cheap (and cheaply built) PA setup. Learning to go solely by what sounds good and presents pleasantly in the sanctuary has helped me do a much better job of fighting feedback and anxiety.
i always want my meters to be where they should, but in small rooms with speakers set at unity it is often not possible so i insert variable pads inline on my ouputs, then set pfl on each channel recording studio style. this lets me keep the room volume as is normal, but all my feeds for zoom etc are broadcast/recording studio quality as far as optimizing pre amp gain is concerned that's my theory anyhow. am i wrong?
speaker volume setting makes no difference to what volume level a mic will feed back. A mic will always feed back at the same volume level in the room given the relative position of the mic to the speakers does not change. While this way of working does solve the problem of the stream being too quietm it does nothing about what volume in the room a mic will feed back.
@@MBVid1 totally fair, but I think the difference now is I’m not hamstringing myself with the idea that the speakers must sit at unity and everything works around that limitation. Not really sure why I did that for so long, but now i’m feeling more free to just do what SOUNDS right in each situation while having the virtual stuff in mind, and it has upped my game 10 fold since I started changing my mindset
Great video. Walking through the vocal range describing the problem frequencies and naming the sounds helps. Comparing the source sound with a good spoken voice track as a reference using headphones could be a game-changer for me. Do you have any suggested 'good dialogue' tracks? I have the Don Davis track from SynAudCon Test disk - which gives me a good traditional male voice recording. Do you have a good one for female voice and/or contemporary male? The concept of regeneration is interesting and I have observed that myself. When we were having problems I used Smaart to measure the spill from FOH at the talker position. In that case I got as far as 'it was a lot!' and we solved it another way. But I am now thinking of using Smaart to consider the frequency bands that are giving the most trouble, the timing delay and what that would be doing to the comb filter. It seems that frequency peaks coming back could lead to feedback, but general low mid energy spilling into the talker area (downstage centre area) from the mains losing pattern control could be driving a comb filter. Thanks for another thorough and thought-provoking video.
So glad it was helpful to you! As far as a nice female vocal I like Diana Krall's "Temptation", but I honestly don't have a go-to female dialogue track at the moment. I need to get one. Figuring out the exact comb filter issues will be most helpful with a stationary mic (a lectern) vs lavs and handhelds, since the comb filter will not change with timing offsets due to movement by the presenter. Even though "in general" most mains lose pattern control at low frequency, "nicer" boxes will have less spurious lobes as you get lower in frequency vs cheaper boxes.
Michael, how much has primary source enhancers or the various incarnations of the Dan Duggan boxes, taking away a good proportion of the issues we have all faced in using lavs or headsets live?
They definitely make my job easier and the mix cleaner when using lavs and headsets, for sure. I feel like I can focus more on making things sound really good and nailing cues vs having the back of mind always "worrying" about feedback and lots of bleed/room sound on the livestream.
Great video! One question: You have the mics in a group and apply EQ to fight feedback frequencies, but this group is not going in the stream mix? How are the microphones then going into a stream bus/matrix? Thanks!
Good question! Depending on the gig I either route all dialog based microphones to a dialog steam bus, then that bus to my stream bus/matrix. Or simply send those channels via sends on fader to the stream bus/matrix separately.
@Michael Curtis....Kindly give us the follow up video on the topic "Faders Too Low On Your Live Mix? Turn Down HERE Instead".... Really expecting it... 💯
Useful info! If you're working U of A's commencements this month, can you do a video on your lectern mic'ing setup? I've seen people like dcSoundOp demonstrate using two mics (one regular condenser and another short shotgun) and I'm just wondering if you run one or two and what type (or if it's all wireless, etc.).
I usually start with my usual trace then do less low end tilt if necessary. Often times there's a band as well as some beefy video playback, so I've been leaving the low end tilt in for the most part.
so, i always want my meters to be where they should be but in small rooms with speakers set at unity it is often not possible so i insert variable pads inline on my ouputs, then set pfl on each channel recording studio style. boom! full meters on the stereo buss ! this lets me keep the room volume as is normal, but all my feeds for zoom etc are broadcast/recording studio quality as far as optimizing pre amp gain is concerned that's my theory anyhow. am i wrong?
If you use too much EQ then realise your chocolate consumption exceeds the amount of hand slaps on ur wrist respectively?? Can you still make the end audio believable in a psycho acoustic real time environment.
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Love the part about seperating out regeneration. I've never heard that term before. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
this was a plethora of valuable information ! thank you very much ! 👍
The biggest fundamental change I’ve made primarily as a corporate audio tech is the idea that the PA does NOT need to be at unity. Having gone to college for studio audio and learning a more traditional old school way of doing sound, I went many years with the mindset that the speakers must be at unity coming off the board in order to be “correct”
A few years ago I came to the realization that honestly nobody cares how anything looks on the board as long as it sounds good without feedback. This has made SUCH a huge difference to how I mix and now I am able to properly gain stage with records and stream in mind, with my inputs and sends to records/streams sitting at unity while I run my PA fader(s) as low as I need it to be loud enough without feedback. Since i started doing this, I don’t have to EQ nearly as much to prevent feedback and everybody always compliments how loud and clear my records/streams/zooms are. It has truly been a game changer for me and I don’t hate mixing lavs nearly as much as I used to
I run audio for my tiny Southern church, which has a cheap (and cheaply built) PA setup. Learning to go solely by what sounds good and presents pleasantly in the sanctuary has helped me do a much better job of fighting feedback and anxiety.
i always want my meters to be where they should, but in small rooms with speakers set at unity it is often not possible so i insert variable pads inline on my ouputs, then set pfl on each channel recording studio style.
this lets me keep the room volume as is normal, but all my feeds for zoom etc are broadcast/recording studio quality as far as optimizing pre amp gain is concerned
that's my theory anyhow. am i wrong?
speaker volume setting makes no difference to what volume level a mic will feed back. A mic will always feed back at the same volume level in the room given the relative position of the mic to the speakers does not change. While this way of working does solve the problem of the stream being too quietm it does nothing about what volume in the room a mic will feed back.
@@MBVid1 totally fair, but I think the difference now is I’m not hamstringing myself with the idea that the speakers must sit at unity and everything works around that limitation. Not really sure why I did that for so long, but now i’m feeling more free to just do what SOUNDS right in each situation while having the virtual stuff in mind, and it has upped my game 10 fold since I started changing my mindset
I really liked the voice frequency range break down in this video. I love the way you explain things.
Very much appreciated : )
Great video. Walking through the vocal range describing the problem frequencies and naming the sounds helps. Comparing the source sound with a good spoken voice track as a reference using headphones could be a game-changer for me.
Do you have any suggested 'good dialogue' tracks? I have the Don Davis track from SynAudCon Test disk - which gives me a good traditional male voice recording. Do you have a good one for female voice and/or contemporary male?
The concept of regeneration is interesting and I have observed that myself. When we were having problems I used Smaart to measure the spill from FOH at the talker position. In that case I got as far as 'it was a lot!' and we solved it another way. But I am now thinking of using Smaart to consider the frequency bands that are giving the most trouble, the timing delay and what that would be doing to the comb filter. It seems that frequency peaks coming back could lead to feedback, but general low mid energy spilling into the talker area (downstage centre area) from the mains losing pattern control could be driving a comb filter.
Thanks for another thorough and thought-provoking video.
So glad it was helpful to you!
As far as a nice female vocal I like Diana Krall's "Temptation", but I honestly don't have a go-to female dialogue track at the moment. I need to get one.
Figuring out the exact comb filter issues will be most helpful with a stationary mic (a lectern) vs lavs and handhelds, since the comb filter will not change with timing offsets due to movement by the presenter.
Even though "in general" most mains lose pattern control at low frequency, "nicer" boxes will have less spurious lobes as you get lower in frequency vs cheaper boxes.
It feels like Michael is talking to me!
I’m not the originator of the question, but I’ve wondered this.
Michael, how much has primary source enhancers or the various incarnations of the Dan Duggan boxes, taking away a good proportion of the issues we have all faced in using lavs or headsets live?
They definitely make my job easier and the mix cleaner when using lavs and headsets, for sure. I feel like I can focus more on making things sound really good and nailing cues vs having the back of mind always "worrying" about feedback and lots of bleed/room sound on the livestream.
Thanks Michael!
Been waiting for a video like this, thanks!
You got it.
Great video! One question: You have the mics in a group and apply EQ to fight feedback frequencies, but this group is not going in the stream mix? How are the microphones then going into a stream bus/matrix? Thanks!
Good question! Depending on the gig I either route all dialog based microphones to a dialog steam bus, then that bus to my stream bus/matrix. Or simply send those channels via sends on fader to the stream bus/matrix separately.
Thank you for this!
@Michael Curtis....Kindly give us the follow up video on the topic "Faders Too Low On Your Live Mix? Turn Down HERE Instead".... Really expecting it...
💯
What are you hoping I would cover in the followup?
@@MichaelCurtisAudio ...maybe was hoping on touching on metering and how to create headroom...and probably your approach to creating headroom....
Useful info! If you're working U of A's commencements this month, can you do a video on your lectern mic'ing setup? I've seen people like dcSoundOp demonstrate using two mics (one regular condenser and another short shotgun) and I'm just wondering if you run one or two and what type (or if it's all wireless, etc.).
I'm unfortunately not working it this year (had some other gig conflicts), but I usually end up doing a double gooseneck, Shure MX418's.
Great video man thank you!
Hey Michael, do you use a different system target trace for events that are primarily speech & A/V vs. live music? Less low end tilt perhaps?
I usually start with my usual trace then do less low end tilt if necessary. Often times there's a band as well as some beefy video playback, so I've been leaving the low end tilt in for the most part.
Hey michael L-Aco_9+6.txt trace is not working in open sound meter.
Outstanding!
Thank you so much!
so, i always want my meters to be where they should be but in small rooms with speakers set at unity it is often not possible so i insert variable pads inline on my ouputs, then set pfl on each channel recording studio style. boom! full meters on the stereo buss !
this lets me keep the room volume as is normal, but all my feeds for zoom etc are broadcast/recording studio quality as far as optimizing pre amp gain is concerned
that's my theory anyhow. am i wrong?
Yup! That's a great stategy.
I have an earth shattering idea. No one has ever thought of it!! Eliminate the lav mic!!!
I’ll accept my Nobel prize!
Great video
Thank you!
Great video! (FYI, I think you meant diction, not dictation)
Thanks! And you are correct. Thanks for the heads up!
If you use too much EQ then realise your chocolate consumption exceeds the amount of hand slaps on ur wrist respectively?? Can you still make the end audio believable in a psycho acoustic real time environment.